Why Air America Failed

[Hobbit]

First off, I must say that Neal Boortz has brought this up on several occasions, so I must give credit where credit is due, but anyway.

Think about where most liberals succeed in the media. Their two primary media are television and newsprint. For the purposes of this argument, let's just focus on newsprint and compare two liberal advocates at work. The newspaper columnist writes a column, and that's pretty much it. After the column is written, it is sent to the presses and printed in the next edition. While the first readers are looking over the column, the columnist is sitting in, let's say 'her' office (I'm looking at you, Cynthia Tucker, you smug ignoranus), drinking coffee and enjoying a mid-morning break. Later in the day/week, letters and e-mails pour in. Some people agree with her, and some don't. Some even have well thought-out arguments that put her in her place. None of this matters, however, as she need not print any of the letters and can simply throw them away, unless her hand is forced by a particularly volatile topic. Sometimes, she can even ignore them if she can redirect fast enough. Television is also similar, since there is rarely a live audience, and even when there isn't, that audience isn't allowed to have a voice on the air.

Now, let's look at a radio show host. The popular format for a radio show host is to take live callers from all viewpoints (except a few nutty ones, and I'm talking the guys only get any air time on Coast to Coast AM (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/), not the guys who I simply disagree with). So, let's say that this same person is a radio host on Air America. This person says the same thing in the same way, just in a different format. The first difficulty is the editing process. She can't simply proofread what she's just said before it airs. She said it. It's now out there and any mistakes she made have to be publicly corrected, but let's ignore that for the moment. Once the piece is over, listeners start calling in. Some of them agree with her. Most of the ones motivated enough to actually call do not. Now, the liberal must defend herself, live, from counter-arguments. She can't ignore them. She doesn't know the caller's full argument before he's on the air, so she can't just throw him away, like she would with a letter. If she cuts him off, she looks weak and foolish, unable to even listen to opposing viewpoints and probably unable to defend them, even from a layman. Therefore, she must hear the guy out, then try her best to counter him.

Now, as has been seen most of the time on this board, liberal viewpoints are hard to defend logically, because they're typically arguments based entirely on emotion. When asked to back something up, they'll typically launch into an attack, in a futile attempt to put the dissenter on the defensive. Radio audiences are smarter than that. Radio audiences are people with neither the time nor the inclination to watch idiotic daytime talk shows becuase their eyes are busy doing...WORK. I listened to Air America in the beginning just to see if it was any good, but was quickly driven away after being cut off mid-ass-kicking by some harpy, I think it was Randi Rhodes (I asked her if Bush was an evil genius or stupid, because he couldn't be both, and if Cheney was controlling him and managed to fool the whole world with fake intel, then how come he didn't plant phony WMDs during the chaos of the invasion. That would have been disgustingly easy. About the time I hit the planting WMDs, I realized I had been cut off, without so much as a warning). None of them could back up their opinions or conclusions. They just spouted and sputtered, then dismissed anybody who didn't agree with them, which just doesn't cut it for an American radio audience. It's boring. THAT is why Air America failed.

And before anybody tells me that liberals never listen to the radio, because it's nothing but propoganda, and that lack of liberals with radios caused the whole thing, try listening to Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Boortz, etc. They have HUGE hunks of liberal listeners who hate their guts, but still listen. If even half those libs had found Air America worth listening to, it would have been a monumental success, but it crashed, and crashed hard, only out-lasting the XFL (anybody remember that turd?) because it kept having Soros money and stolen B&G Club money dumped into it.

[avatar4321]

I disagree with one part, hosts can screen their calls and put on favorable callers. Course Conservative hosts dont do that, but they can do it.

You have given me an idea for a thread though.

[Joe Steel]

Now, as has been seen most of the time on this board, liberal viewpoints are hard to defend logically...

Logic.

There's the problem.

Conservatives never use the stuff so it's lost on them. For them, it's all ideology, hate-radio sound-bites and talking points. That makes it tough to dumb-down an argument enough to put it in terms the Conservative can understand.

[CockySOB]

Logic.

There's the problem.

Conservatives never use the stuff so it's lost on them. For them, it's all ideology, hate-radio sound-bites and talking points. That makes it tough to dumb-down an argument enough to put it in terms the Conservative can understand.

OK, you've posted nothing of substance yet on the board, but this post takes the cake.

Enlighten us all how conservatives and their logic are the reason Air America failed. Please. Last I checked, Air America promoted a liberal agenda almost exclusively. According to my logic, that'd mean that not enough liberals tuned in to Air America to make it worthwhile for advertisers to spend money on 'em.

But please, if you have anything of substance, let's see it.

[Gaffer]

Logic.

There's the problem.

Conservatives never use the stuff so it's lost on them. For them, it's all ideology, hate-radio sound-bites and talking points. That makes it tough to dumb-down an argument enough to put it in terms the Conservative can understand.

As he said, when they can't defend a position they attack. This is a prime example of that. Good show newbie.

[Joe Steel]

OK, you've posted nothing of substance yet on the board, but this post takes the cake.

Enlighten us all how conservatives and their logic are the reason Air America failed. Please. Last I checked, Air America promoted a liberal agenda almost exclusively. According to my logic, that'd mean that not enough liberals tuned in to Air America to make it worthwhile for advertisers to spend money on 'em.

But please, if you have anything of substance, let's see it.

Nothing of substance? You're not trying hard enough to understand it.

Air America didn't fail. It reorganized its finances with bankruptcy. That happens all the time. It doesn't mean the audience shrank or didn't like what it heard. It just means (in this case but not necessarily all cases) the company didn't have enough cash to satisfy its obligations.

See?

I said it was tough.

[KarlMarx]

Nothing of substance? You're not trying hard enough to understand it.

Air America didn't fail. It reorganized its finances with bankruptcy. That happens all the time. It doesn't mean the audience shrank or didn't like what it heard. It just means (in this case but not necessarily all cases) the company didn't have enough cash to satisfy its obligations.

See?

I said it was tough.
It didn't fail, yet it went into bankruptcy, how do you reconcile those two statements?

A company goes bankrupt when it can't pay its creditors. In the radio biz, that usually means not enough advertisers were willing to pay to have their commercials heard on that station.

Certainly, it had an audience, but it was a small one. Air America did not carry a very large market share in the few markets it aired in.

Air America was supposed to be the Left's answer to Rush Limbaugh, if that's the case, it certainly did fail.

[Missileman]

Air America didn't fail. It reorganized its finances with bankruptcy. That happens all the time. It doesn't mean the audience shrank or didn't like what it heard. It just means (in this case but not necessarily all cases) the company didn't have enough cash to satisfy its obligations.


If a company going bankrupt isn't a failure, I can only imagine your definition of success. Let's see if we can pin it down with a hypothetical.

A kid makes it through his senior year in HS without enough credits to graduate and unable to read...is that a failure or success?

[Joe Steel]

It didn't fail, yet it went into bankruptcy, how do you reconcile those two statements?

Air America owed a creditor a good deal of money. The creditor wanted the money immediately so it froze Air America's bank account. That created a problem for continuing operations so Air America elected to reorganize under protection of the bankruptcy court. Air America continues to operate. That's not failure.

[CockySOB]

Air America owed a creditor a good deal of money. The creditor wanted the money immediately so it froze Air America's bank account. That created a problem for continuing operations so Air America elected to reorganize under protection of the bankruptcy court. Air America continues to operate. That's not failure.

Why did the creditor want their money? Because Air America had failed to make the required payments. This kind of fiscal irresponsibility usually results in either repossession of secured assets, or bankruptcy filing and fiscal reorganization in an attempt to prevent TOTAL failure of the business and liquidation of all assets to pay off creditors.

So again, Air America was a financial failure in its original incarnation. And now with Air America 2.0, we get to see if the move to hire Westwood One to handle their advertising and marketing will have a positive effect, or not. My guess is that Air America 2.0 will end up with similar financial failures as the first incarnation did.

[Hobbit]

Nobody's going to loan money to Air America now, because they're a terrible credit risk. As for Joe Steel, this is the reason Air America failed. I presented a reason why their platform failed, why nobody listened to it, and his answer is to attempt to deflect and attack rather than to counter. My original argument remains unanswered.

[avatar4321]

Logic.

There's the problem.

Conservatives never use the stuff so it's lost on them. For them, it's all ideology, hate-radio sound-bites and talking points. That makes it tough to dumb-down an argument enough to put it in terms the Conservative can understand.

I think youve just articulated his point. Rather than address points in any sort of logical manner, you've resorted to an appeal to emotion through attacks.

[Joe Steel]

Why did the creditor want their money? Because Air America had failed to make the required payments.

Startups have cash problems. Most creditors, though, work with them in hope of a profitable future relationship. For some reason MRBI didn't want to do that with AAR. The other creditors did. It was just bad luck.

[avatar4321]

Nothing of substance? You're not trying hard enough to understand it.

Air America didn't fail. It reorganized its finances with bankruptcy. That happens all the time. It doesn't mean the audience shrank or didn't like what it heard. It just means (in this case but not necessarily all cases) the company didn't have enough cash to satisfy its obligations.

See?

I said it was tough.

If a company goes bankrupt, it failed. There is no way to say otherwise because successful companies don't go bankrupt. they make profit.

[avatar4321]

Startups have cash problems. Most creditors, though, work with them in hope of a profitable future relationship. For some reason MRBI didn't want to do that with AAR. The other creditors did. It was just bad luck.

They had cash problems because they had absolutely no business plan and a crappy product.

How on earth can it be bad luck when you do absolutely no financial planning and do absolutely nothing that appeals to an audience?

[Joe Steel]

I think youve just articulated his point. Rather than address points in any sort of logical manner, you've resorted to an appeal to emotion through attacks.


That's absurd.

He said: "(t)hey just spouted and sputtered, then dismissed anybody who didn't agree with them, which just doesn't cut it for an American radio audience. It's boring. THAT is why Air America failed."

That's nonsense.

I've read dozens of accounts of Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and other hate-radio ranters cutting-off callers who didn't agree with them, calling them names and ridiculing them when the call ends. That kind of behavior is what attracts the nut cases, half-wits, misfits and and malcontents who comprise their audience.

The original poster argued from a false premise and didn't make a coherent case. I gave him what he deserved.

[stephanie]

Anybody ever listen to Randi Rhodes for any length of time???

That's what I would consider......TORTURE...yikes..

No wonder AA went down the tubes...

:laugh2:

[Joe Steel]

If a company goes bankrupt, it failed. There is no way to say otherwise because successful companies don't go bankrupt. they make profit.

That's just not so.

If you've ever flown on a commercial airline, you may have patronized a "failed" company:


This is a timeline of bankruptcies affecting airlines which are still currently operating. ...

* August 11, 2002 - US Airways enters protection
* December 9, 2002 - United Airlines under protection
* April 1, 2003 - Air Canada files
* September 30, 2004 - Air Canada emerges
* September 14, 2005 - Northwest Airlines files
* September 14, 2005 - Delta Air Lines files, putting 4 of the top 7 carriers in the United States under bankruptcy protection
* September 27, 2005 - US Airways emerges, in conjunction with its acquisition by America West
* February 1, 2006 - United Airlines emerges


Often, bankruptcy is just a cash management tool.

[CockySOB]

Startups have cash problems. Most creditors, though, work with them in hope of a profitable future relationship. For some reason MRBI didn't want to do that with AAR. The other creditors did. It was just bad luck.

Perhaps because they saw Air America as an investment which was not paying off, and not making the changes necessary to make it profitable. At that point, MRBI decided that the risk (of AA actually pulling it's ass out of the fire) outweighed any potential profit, and called in the loan.

You say, "bad luck." I say, "risk analysis."

[Joe Steel]

Perhaps because they saw Air America as an investment which was not paying off, and not making the changes necessary to make it profitable. At that point, MRBI decided that the risk (of AA actually pulling it's ass out of the fire) outweighed any potential profit, and called in the loan.

You say, "bad luck." I say, "risk analysis."


I guess it could be but AAR is still operating and I stream it all day, every day. I'm sure millions more do, too. I used to listen to O'Reilly, Hannity, et. al. No more. Once I had a chance for something else, I switched.

I think it's only a matter time until AAR is profitable.

[Mr. P]

Air America failed because they couldn't generate revenue, a typical socialist liberal trait.
Why else tax the RICH? You don't have it, you can't make it, so just take it from those who can and do.

[avatar4321]

That's absurd.

He said: "(t)hey just spouted and sputtered, then dismissed anybody who didn't agree with them, which just doesn't cut it for an American radio audience. It's boring. THAT is why Air America failed."

That's nonsense.

I've read dozens of accounts of Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and other hate-radio ranters cutting-off callers who didn't agree with them, calling them names and ridiculing them when the call ends. That kind of behavior is what attracts the nut cases, half-wits, misfits and and malcontents who comprise their audience.

The original poster argued from a false premise and didn't make a coherent case. I gave him what he deserved.

you seem to be missing the point completely. But that doesnt surprise me. youd rather argue straw men then facts.

Fact is youve just completely demonstrated that you've never listened to Limbaugh.

[avatar4321]

That's just not so.

If you've ever flown on a commercial airline, you may have patronized a "failed" company:



Often, bankruptcy is just a cash management tool.

if its bankrupt, its not making a profit and hence a failed company. try to spin it all you want but it doesnt change the facts.

[avatar4321]

I guess it could be but AAR is still operating and I stream it all day, every day. I'm sure millions more do, too. I used to listen to O'Reilly, Hannity, et. al. No more. Once I had a chance for something else, I switched.

I think it's only a matter time until AAR is profitable.

yes, obviously because you do something millions of others do as well...

[Hobbit]

That's absurd.

He said: "(t)hey just spouted and sputtered, then dismissed anybody who didn't agree with them, which just doesn't cut it for an American radio audience. It's boring. THAT is why Air America failed."

That's nonsense.

I've read dozens of accounts of Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh and other hate-radio ranters cutting-off callers who didn't agree with them, calling them names and ridiculing them when the call ends. That kind of behavior is what attracts the nut cases, half-wits, misfits and and malcontents who comprise their audience.

The original poster argued from a false premise and didn't make a coherent case. I gave him what he deserved.

I've actually listened to Air America, and I regularly listen to other forms of talk radio. It looks like you've never listened to talk radio, and only read accounts from people who are trying to make them look bad and report people as being cut off in mid-point when the truth is they were either getting belligerant, wouldn't get to the point, or kept trying to talk over the host instead of letting him address points. The people who get cut off in mid-sentence, liberal or conservative (I've heard both), are morons who don't know when to talk and when to shut up and listen.

[stephanie]

They call Oreilly and Limbaugh hate radio ranters..

I wonder what they call Randi Rhodes, Bill Maher, Imus, Kieth Oberman, Jack Cafferty, Chris Mathews....??

Speaking LOVE in a mild, gentle, kind way ranters.... :laugh2: