Stunning article by Thomas Sowell: Degeneration of Democracy

[Little-Acorn]

Sowell's grasp of the real crux of a matter is brilliant. Again he cuts through the noise and distraction, to zero in on the two biggest hazards to the country by the Obama administration: Chronic, careful violations of the procedures laid down in the Constitution... and the shrugging off of those violations by an uncaring public.

-----------------------------------------

http://townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2010/06/22/degeneration_of_democracy

Degeneration of Democracy

by Thomas Sowell
June 22, 2010

When Adolf Hitler was building up the Nazi movement in the 1920s, leading up to his taking power in the 1930s, he deliberately sought to activate people who did not normally pay much attention to politics. Such people were a valuable addition to his political base, since they were particularly susceptible to Hitler's rhetoric and had far less basis for questioning his assumptions or his conclusions.

"Useful idiots" was the term supposedly coined by V.I. Lenin to describe similarly unthinking supporters of his dictatorship in the Soviet Union.

Put differently, a democracy needs informed citizens if it is to thrive, or ultimately even survive. In our times, American democracy is being dismantled, piece by piece, before our very eyes by the current administration in Washington, and few people seem to be concerned about it.

The president's poll numbers are going down because increasing numbers of people disagree with particular policies of his, but the damage being done to the fundamental structure of this nation goes far beyond particular counterproductive policies.

Just where in the Constitution of the United States does it say that a president has the authority to extract vast sums of money from a private enterprise and distribute it as he sees fit to whomever he deems worthy of compensation? Nowhere.

And yet that is precisely what is happening with a $20 billion fund to be provided by BP to compensate people harmed by their oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

Many among the public and in the media may think that the issue is simply whether BP's oil spill has damaged many people, who ought to be compensated. But our government is supposed to be "a government of laws and not of men." If our laws and our institutions determine that BP ought to pay $20 billion-- or $50 billion or $100 billion-- then so be it.

But the Constitution says that private property is not to be confiscated by the government without "due process of law." Technically, it has not been confiscated by Barack Obama, but that is a distinction without a difference.

With vastly expanded powers of government available at the discretion of politicians and bureaucrats, private individuals and organizations can be forced into accepting the imposition of powers that were never granted to the government by the Constitution.

If you believe that the end justifies the means, then you don't believe in Constitutional government. And, without Constitutional government, freedom cannot endure. There will always be a "crisis"-- which, as the president's chief of staff has said, cannot be allowed to "go to waste" as an opportunity to expand the government's power.

That power will of course not be confined to BP or to the particular period of crisis that gave rise to the use of that power, much less to the particular issues.

When Franklin D. Roosevelt arbitrarily took the United States off the gold standard, he cited a law passed during the First World War to prevent trading with the country's wartime enemies. But there was no war when FDR ended the gold standard's restrictions on the printing of money.

At about the same time, during the worldwide Great Depression, the German Reichstag passed a law "for the relief of the German people." That law gave Hitler dictatorial powers that were used for things going far beyond the relief of the German people-- indeed, powers that ultimately brought a rain of destruction down on the German people and on others.

If the agreement with BP was an isolated event, perhaps we might hope that it would not be a precedent. But there is nothing isolated about it.

The man appointed by President Obama to dispense BP's money as the administration sees fit, to whomever it sees fit, is only the latest in a long line of presidentially appointed "czars" controlling different parts of the economy, without even having to be confirmed by the Senate, as Cabinet members are.

Those who cannot see beyond the immediate events to the issues of arbitrary power-- versus the rule of law and the preservation of freedom-- are the "useful idiots" of our time. But useful to whom?

[bullypulpit]

Ah...More Hitler rhetoric from the right. Sowell is too smart to have forgotten the lessons learned from the rise and fall of Nazi Germany. Therefore he can only be distorting the facts to appeal to the red-meat, right wing-nut base who never knew what those lessons were in the first place, and haven't the faintest idea of just what Nazism, despotism and tyranny were, and are, about. They just know that these words sound threatening, and is that is good enough for them.

I don't know which is more despicable...the willful, and woeful, ignorance of the GOP base or the deliberate feeding of that ignorance by Sowell and his fellow travelers.

[Gaffer]

Ah...More Hitler rhetoric from the right. Sowell is too smart to have forgotten the lessons learned from the rise and fall of Nazi Germany. Therefore he can only be distorting the facts to appeal to the red-meat, right wing-nut base who never knew what those lessons were in the first place, and haven't the faintest idea of just what Nazism, despotism and tyranny were, and are, about. They just know that these words sound threatening, and is that is good enough for them.

I don't know which is more despicable...the willful, and woeful, ignorance of the GOP base or the deliberate feeding of that ignorance by Sowell and his fellow travelers.

The only willful and deliberate feeding of ignorance is on your part. Please explain how Mr. Sowell is distorting the facts. The only person here that doesn't have the faintest idea about nazi's and despotism is you.

[abso]

sorry, but since i dont know alot about the subject, i just have a question, was BP forced to pay the $20 billion fund, or did they agree to pay it as a compensation ?

[namvet]

"Useful idiots" was the term supposedly coined by V.I. Lenin to describe similarly unthinking supporters of his dictatorship in the Soviet Union.



a perfect description of the DNC and the "Useful idiots" that support it. gotta write this down and save it !!!! :laugh2:

[Gaffer]

sorry, but since i dont know alot about the subject, i just have a question, was BP forced to pay the $20 billion fund, or did they agree to pay it as a compensation ?

It was extorted from them. It will be used to fund groups that will extort more money from them and other corporations. I'm sure the dark lord got a little pocket money under the table in the form of Swiss bank accounts.

[abso]

It was extorted from them. It will be used to fund groups that will extort more money from them and other corporations. I'm sure the dark lord got a little pocket money under the table in the form of Swiss bank accounts.

who are the people harmed by the oil spill ?

wasnt it enough to charge BP for the cleanin costs which of course would never reach $20 Billion :eek:

[namvet]

It was extorted from them. It will be used to fund groups that will extort more money from them and other corporations. I'm sure the dark lord got a little pocket money under the table in the form of Swiss bank accounts.

in the midst of confusion there is profit.

[namvet]

who are the people harmed by the oil spill ?

wasnt it enough to charge BP for the cleanin costs which of course would never reach $20 Billion :eek:

isn't getting the leak stopped important first ???? yes i heard that somewhere

[Gaffer]

who are the people harmed by the oil spill ?

wasnt it enough to charge BP for the cleanin costs which of course would never reach $20 Billion :eek:

You probably don't get much news about it there. The people harmed are those that live along the coast, fishermen, crab and shrimp industry, tourism etc. This also expands to restaurants, boats and the boating industry. If the people along the coast can't do business they can't buy things others sell. This is a snowball effect which hurts the whole economy.

The cleaning costs will run into the hundreds of billions dollars range. The 20 billion was just bribe money to the dark lord so he'll keep his prosecutors at bay.

[abso]

You probably don't get much news about it there. The people harmed are those that live along the coast, fishermen, crab and shrimp industry, tourism etc. This also expands to restaurants, boats and the boating industry. If the people along the coast can't do business they can't buy things others sell. This is a snowball effect which hurts the whole economy.

The cleaning costs will run into the hundreds of billions dollars range. The 20 billion was just bribe money to the dark lord so he'll keep his prosecutors at bay.

i am aware about the harms that will happen to several industries, those could be compensated too, but about the cleaning costs, dont you think that hundreds of billions of dollars is a little much for cleaning the oil ???, is the spill that large ?

[Gaffer]

i am aware about the harms that will happen to several industries, those could be compensated too, but about the cleaning costs, dont you think that hundreds of billions of dollars is a little much for cleaning the oil ???, is the spill that large ?

Yes it is that large and continues to grow as nothing is being done. It's been two months and they still haven't even plugged the hole. There has been a lot of offers of assistance but none has been accepted. The government has been working hard at making sure clean up boats have the right number of life jackets and fire extinguishers on board. They are making sure all the paperwork is properly filled out. BP says they can't cap the well until August and maybe Nov. The actual hands on capping could take weeks, but getting all the approvals from all the government agencies will take months.

This is a prime example of why this country needs less government.

[Gaffer]

A little reading abso.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/06/obamas_gulf_oil_spill_commissi.html

It's all about politics.

[Little-Acorn]

Ah...More Hitler rhetoric from the right.

Trust little bully to completely miss the point of the article, and misinterpret what little he did take in, to maximum effect.

No wonder nobody listens to him and his ilk any more.

[Insein]

Trust little bully to completely miss the point of the article, and misinterpret what little he did take in, to maximum effect.

No wonder nobody listens to him and his ilk any more.

It makes life easier to not pay attention to him.

As for the article, I was thinking this myself. We have a system in this country to sue a private company for a wrongdoing that they did to another private citizen. People will get their money from BP through the due process of law. Why did the government extort $20 Billion from a private company to supposedly "hand out to those that need it?" A nice little campaign slush fund with no oversight was created there by Obama. I doubt very little of that money will ever reach the hands of fisherman, crabbers or tourist areas that have been deeply impacted by this disaster.

[Abbey Marie]

The only willful and deliberate feeding of ignorance is on your part. Please explain how Mr. Sowell is distorting the facts. The only person here that doesn't have the faintest idea about nazi's and despotism is you.


I will second that question.
Bully, you need to back up such an accusation. Let's hear it.

[HogTrash]

Consider the groups that Obama has captured the majority of their political support.

The minorities, union workers, women and of course the young who are easily manipulated and naturally rebelious.

These are pretty much the same groups that all marxists have historicly targeted for their support by preaching class warfare.

Why, because they are the people with the least power and influence in society, making them more susceptible to promises of false hope.

They convince them that they are victims of the rich who get fat off their labor and the only solution is to take from the wealthy and give it to them.

[red states rule]

Ah...More Hitler rhetoric from the right. Sowell is too smart to have forgotten the lessons learned from the rise and fall of Nazi Germany. Therefore he can only be distorting the facts to appeal to the red-meat, right wing-nut base who never knew what those lessons were in the first place, and haven't the faintest idea of just what Nazism, despotism and tyranny were, and are, about. They just know that these words sound threatening, and is that is good enough for them.

I don't know which is more despicable...the willful, and woeful, ignorance of the GOP base or the deliberate feeding of that ignorance by Sowell and his fellow travelers.

BP you are a very generous liberal

Everytime you post, you give away your ignorance

[bullypulpit]

The only willful and deliberate feeding of ignorance is on your part. Please explain how Mr. Sowell is distorting the facts. The only person here that doesn't have the faintest idea about nazi's and despotism is you.

<quote>...he deliberately sought to activate people who did not normally pay much attention to politics. Such people were a valuable addition to his political base, since they were particularly susceptible to Hitler's rhetoric and had far less basis for questioning his assumptions or his conclusions...</quote>

Nothin' to 'splain. The above quote, taken from Sowell's article, is a perfect description of the astro-turf movement known as the "Tea-Party" movement. The politically naive, the intellectually lazy and/or dishonest, the fearful in need of a place to express their fear and give it voice. These are the base which Mr. Sowell's article is directed. It is the same base which Hitler's rhetoric was aimed.

As for my knowledge of history...it is largely self-acquired. Unlike you and your fellow travelers, however, I have neither ignored nor forgotten the lessons which history offers us.

[red states rule]

<quote>...he deliberately sought to activate people who did not normally pay much attention to politics. Such people were a valuable addition to his political base, since they were particularly susceptible to Hitler's rhetoric and had far less basis for questioning his assumptions or his conclusions...</quote>

Nothin' to 'splain. The above quote, taken from Sowell's article, is a perfect description of the astro-turf movement known as the "Tea-Party" movement. The politically naive, the intellectually lazy and/or dishonest, the fearful in need of a place to express their fear and give it voice. These are the base which Mr. Sowell's article is directed. It is the same base which Hitler's rhetoric was aimed.

As for my knowledge of history...it is largely self-acquired. Unlike you and your fellow travelers, however, I have neither ignored nor forgotten the lessons which history offers us.

Check out the polls BP -the Tea Party is winning and Dems are going to get their collective asses kicked in November

I see you refrain from all the threads that show how Obama's polices are failing, costing much more then he said they would, how Dems are pissing thru are tax dollars while demanding more - even from the middle class

[Gaffer]

<quote>...he deliberately sought to activate people who did not normally pay much attention to politics. Such people were a valuable addition to his political base, since they were particularly susceptible to Hitler's rhetoric and had far less basis for questioning his assumptions or his conclusions...</quote>

Nothin' to 'splain. The above quote, taken from Sowell's article, is a perfect description of the astro-turf movement known as the "Tea-Party" movement. The politically naive, the intellectually lazy and/or dishonest, the fearful in need of a place to express their fear and give it voice. These are the base which Mr. Sowell's article is directed. It is the same base which Hitler's rhetoric was aimed.

As for my knowledge of history...it is largely self-acquired. Unlike you and your fellow travelers, however, I have neither ignored nor forgotten the lessons which history offers us.

Your knowledge of history has been acquired at the hands of sites like DU and left wing loons. Mr. Sowell makes very good sense in what he writes, and always does. His readers are not nazi's, they are regular people. They read and comprehend what he has to say. Unlike you and your ilk they don't follow blindly. History has repeatedly proven you and all liberals to be wrong about everything. Don't get into history, the facts will shut you down.

[abso]

A little reading abso.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/06/obamas_gulf_oil_spill_commissi.html

It's all about politics.

thanks for the article, i agree with it, a real scientific investigation should be conducted, not a political one to cover up the problem.

but i wonder why its so hard to close the well, if you have another article explaining the difficulties in closing the well, its would be great, thanks again for the article.

[bullypulpit]

BP you are a very generous liberal

Everytime you post, you give away your ignorance

I seek only to emulate you, whose ignorance is so vast and towering as to leave mine like unto a mote in God's eye.

[bullypulpit]

Your knowledge of history has been acquired at the hands of sites like DU and left wing loons. Mr. Sowell makes very good sense in what he writes, and always does. His readers are not nazi's, they are regular people. They read and comprehend what he has to say. Unlike you and your ilk they don't follow blindly. History has repeatedly proven you and all liberals to be wrong about everything. Don't get into history, the facts will shut you down.

Actually no, Richard J. Evans excellent 2 volume work on the rise and fall of the Third Reich informs me with regards to the rise of the right wing in America, and the facts bear me in this. And no , Sowell's readers aren't Nazi's. They simply share many of the characteristics with those who stood silently by whilst the Third Reich committed its atrocities.

[bullypulpit]

Check out the polls BP -the Tea Party is winning and Dems are going to get their collective asses kicked in November

I see you refrain from all the threads that show how Obama's polices are failing, costing much more then he said they would, how Dems are pissing thru are tax dollars while demanding more - even from the middle class

I suppose that means that the polls showing the disapproval of the Tea Baggers has reach 50% don't really exist. And bear in mind, Red, that the Tea Bagger candidates have simply outdone their mainstream GOP opponents in right wing douche-baggery.

[KarlMarx]

i am aware about the harms that will happen to several industries, those could be compensated too, but about the cleaning costs, dont you think that hundreds of billions of dollars is a little much for cleaning the oil ???, is the spill that large ?

The size of the fund is not what matters. The real problem is that the President, on his own, got $20 billion from BP. Our Constitution says, very clearly, that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

A 20 minute meeting with BP is not due process of law.

We already have laws on the books that deal with oil spills. The President, as seems to be his habit, took the law into his own hands and did what he did. The President is supposed to defend and protect our Constitution, not run around like a bull in a china shop doing what he pleases.

Now that Barak O-Butthole has set a precedent, what's to stop him from confiscating private citizens' property by simply having a 20 minute meeting?

BTW... $20 billion is probably broken down like this... $4 billion for the cleanup, $16 billion for the bureaucrats.... followed by the lawsuits, which will probably top $100 billion, of which $40 billion dollars will go to the lawyers.... what did Rahm Emmanuel say? Never let a crisis go to waste? The Obama administration is making sure of that!

[red states rule]

I suppose that means that the polls showing the disapproval of the Tea Baggers has reach 50% don't really exist. And bear in mind, Red, that the Tea Bagger candidates have simply outdone their mainstream GOP opponents in right wing douche-baggery.

Oh yea BP, the recent primary wins show unpopular the Tea Party is with voters

In fact this past Tuesday




Another victory for the Tea Party Express
Posted: June 23rd, 2010 10:02 AM ET

From CNN Deputy Political Director Paul Steinhauser

(CNN) – One of the winners in Tuesday's primaries in Utah wasn't on the ballot, and isn't even based in the state.

Republican candidate for the Senate Mike Lee was victorious in the battle for his party's nomination, but his win can also be seen as another primary victory for the Tea Party Express, a national Tea Party organization based in California.

The group, best known for its three high profile national bus tours, endorsed Lee and launched a radio campaign and a get out the vote effort to assist the candidate.

"We are so excited to see another tea party candidate win a critical election, and the voters in Utah will be well-served with Mike Lee in the U.S. Senate," said Tea Party Express Political Director Bryan Shroyer, in a statement.

Lee, a lawyer and one-time clerk for Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, was also endorsed by Freedom Works. The nonprofit conservative organization that helps train volunteer activists and has provided much of the organizational heft behind the Tea Party movement assisted in the get-out-the-vote efforts in Utah for Lee.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/23/another-victory-for-the-tea-party-express/?fbid=R_c6WkQhZUG



and





Nikki Haley Wins S.C. Gubernatorial Primary

In a clear sign of racial progress in the South, Republicans overwhelmingly chose Nikki Haley, an Indian-American woman, to run for governor in South Carolina and nominated Tim Scott, who would be the Confederate state's first black congressman in more than a century.

Six-term Republican Rep. Bob Inglis fell to prosecutor Trey Gowdy, making him the 5th House or Senate incumbent to stumble this year

In North Carolina, Secretary of State Elaine Marshall won the Democratic nomination to challenge GOP Sen. Richard Burr in the fall. And Utah Republicans chose a GOP successor to vanquished Sen. Bob Bennett in a state that hasn't elected a Democratic senator in four decades. Voters in Mississippi also decided on their final nominee for November.

Tuesday's runoffs and primaries played out across four states, the latest cluster of contests to determine matchups for the midterm congressional elections just over four months away. Already, 2010 is shaping up to be an anti-establishment year with angry voters casting ballots against candidates with ties to Washington and the political parties.

With her victory, state Rep. Haley moved one step closer to becoming the first female governor in the conservative-leaning state. She also secured her place as a rising female star in the GOP, if not potential 2012 vice presidential candidate in the early primary state. She stands as the front-runner in the race against the Democratic gubernatorial nominee, state Sen. Vincent Sheheen. The disgraced GOP Gov. Mark Sanford is leaving the post because of term limits.

Haley, a 38-year-old state legislator with the backing of tea party activists and Sarah Palin, brushed aside allegations of marital infidelity and an ethnic slur to come within a percentage point of winning the gubernatorial nod outright on June 8. With 97 percent of the precincts reporting in the runoff, she had 65 percent of the vote to 35 percent for Rep. Gresham Barrett, a four-term congressman who has had to answer for his 2008 vote for the unpopular Wall Street bailout.

http://cbs3.com/topstories/nikki.haley.tea.2.1766895.html

[Gaffer]

Actually no, Richard J. Evans excellent 2 volume work on the rise and fall of the Third Reich informs me with regards to the rise of the right wing in America, and the facts bear me in this. And no , Sowell's readers aren't Nazi's. They simply share many of the characteristics with those who stood silently by whilst the Third Reich committed its atrocities.

You want to see nazi characteristics? Look in a mirror. Your definitely a party over country kinda guy.

[Gaffer]

thanks for the article, i agree with it, a real scientific investigation should be conducted, not a political one to cover up the problem.

but i wonder why its so hard to close the well, if you have another article explaining the difficulties in closing the well, its would be great, thanks again for the article.

There really hasn't been much news put out on any of it. There was an article about the rock in the sea floor cracking and that they had trouble with numerous leaks for months. But there was no evidence to confirm anything. And doesn't explain the explosion.

The well is more than a mile under water. It's not easy to work at that level. It takes a lot of special equipment.

If I find any more articles I will pass them on.

[abso]

There really hasn't been much news put out on any of it. There was an article about the rock in the sea floor cracking and that they had trouble with numerous leaks for months. But there was no evidence to confirm anything. And doesn't explain the explosion.

The well is more than a mile under water. It's not easy to work at that level. It takes a lot of special equipment.

If I find any more articles I will pass them on.


thanks..

[LuvRPgrl]

Ah...More Hitler rhetoric from the right. Sowell is too smart to have forgotten the lessons learned from the rise and fall of Nazi Germany. Therefore he can only be distorting the facts to appeal to the red-meat, right wing-nut base who never knew what those lessons were in the first place, and haven't the faintest idea of just what Nazism, despotism and tyranny were, and are, about. They just know that these words sound threatening, and is that is good enough for them.

I don't know which is more despicable...the willful, and woeful, ignorance of the GOP base or the deliberate feeding of that ignorance by Sowell and his fellow travelers.

UMMMM, did you say something?

[LuvRPgrl]

<quote>...he deliberately sought to activate people who did not normally pay much attention to politics. Such people were a valuable addition to his political base, since they were particularly susceptible to Hitler's rhetoric and had far less basis for questioning his assumptions or his conclusions...</quote>

Nothin' to 'splain. The above quote, taken from Sowell's article, is a perfect description of the astro-turf movement known as the "Tea-Party" movement. The politically naive, the intellectually lazy and/or dishonest, the fearful in need of a place to express their fear and give it voice. These are the base which Mr. Sowell's article is directed. It is the same base which Hitler's rhetoric was aimed.

As for my knowledge of history...it is largely self-acquired. Unlike you and your fellow travelers, however, I have neither ignored nor forgotten the lessons which history offers us.

Im still waiting for a post from you that contains any type of a fact in it whatsoever

[LuvRPgrl]

Elitist liberal Democrats dont believe in Democracy, and the first really major steps were taken under FDR, Social Security was instituted to gain control of billions of dollars by the FEDS,

and to beholden senior citizen voters to the liberal spending party in Washington,

followed by huge spending programs like welfare,

now we see the takeover of the education program has assured the most illiterate generation in history, ILLITERACY = FALLING FOR ANY LIES AND APATHY


Sowell's grasp of the real crux of a matter is brilliant. Again he cuts through the noise and distraction, to zero in on the two biggest hazards to the country by the Obama administration: Chronic, careful violations of the procedures laid down in the Constitution... and the shrugging off of those violations by an uncaring public.

-----------------------------------------

http://townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2010/06/22/degeneration_of_democracy

Degeneration of Democracy

by Thomas Sowell
June 22, 2010

When Adolf Hitler was building up the Nazi movement in the 1920s, leading up to his taking power in the 1930s, he deliberately sought to activate people who did not normally pay much attention to politics. Such people were a valuable addition to his political base, since they were particularly susceptible to Hitler's rhetoric and had far less basis for questioning his assumptions or his conclusions.

"Useful idiots" was the term supposedly coined by V.I. Lenin to describe similarly unthinking supporters of his dictatorship in the Soviet Union.

Put differently, a democracy needs informed citizens if it is to thrive, or ultimately even survive. In our times, American democracy is being dismantled, piece by piece, before our very eyes by the current administration in Washington, and few people seem to be concerned about it.

The president's poll numbers are going down because increasing numbers of people disagree with particular policies of his, but the damage being done to the fundamental structure of this nation goes far beyond particular counterproductive policies.

Just where in the Constitution of the United States does it say that a president has the authority to extract vast sums of money from a private enterprise and distribute it as he sees fit to whomever he deems worthy of compensation? Nowhere.

And yet that is precisely what is happening with a $20 billion fund to be provided by BP to compensate people harmed by their oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

Many among the public and in the media may think that the issue is simply whether BP's oil spill has damaged many people, who ought to be compensated. But our government is supposed to be "a government of laws and not of men." If our laws and our institutions determine that BP ought to pay $20 billion-- or $50 billion or $100 billion-- then so be it.

But the Constitution says that private property is not to be confiscated by the government without "due process of law." Technically, it has not been confiscated by Barack Obama, but that is a distinction without a difference.

With vastly expanded powers of government available at the discretion of politicians and bureaucrats, private individuals and organizations can be forced into accepting the imposition of powers that were never granted to the government by the Constitution.

If you believe that the end justifies the means, then you don't believe in Constitutional government. And, without Constitutional government, freedom cannot endure. There will always be a "crisis"-- which, as the president's chief of staff has said, cannot be allowed to "go to waste" as an opportunity to expand the government's power.

That power will of course not be confined to BP or to the particular period of crisis that gave rise to the use of that power, much less to the particular issues.

When Franklin D. Roosevelt arbitrarily took the United States off the gold standard, he cited a law passed during the First World War to prevent trading with the country's wartime enemies. But there was no war when FDR ended the gold standard's restrictions on the printing of money.

At about the same time, during the worldwide Great Depression, the German Reichstag passed a law "for the relief of the German people." That law gave Hitler dictatorial powers that were used for things going far beyond the relief of the German people-- indeed, powers that ultimately brought a rain of destruction down on the German people and on others.

If the agreement with BP was an isolated event, perhaps we might hope that it would not be a precedent. But there is nothing isolated about it.

The man appointed by President Obama to dispense BP's money as the administration sees fit, to whomever it sees fit, is only the latest in a long line of presidentially appointed "czars" controlling different parts of the economy, without even having to be confirmed by the Senate, as Cabinet members are.

Those who cannot see beyond the immediate events to the issues of arbitrary power-- versus the rule of law and the preservation of freedom-- are the "useful idiots" of our time. But useful to whom?

[bullypulpit]

You want to see nazi characteristics? Look in a mirror. Your definitely a party over country kinda guy.

No, not so much. No just government or society founded on the consent of the governed, nor any other government for that matter, can justify any claim to absolute authority over the individuals that are its foundation. This is tyranny, plain and simple.

Nor can the individual claim absolutely inalienable rights from the society or government they live in. Unless, of course, they are seeking life as a hermit in a cave days from civilization. If this is not the case, we have anarchy.

In either case we have a seeking for absolutes, which leads to extremism and extremism in any cause is ultimately destructive to that cause.

[bullypulpit]

Elitist liberal Democrats dont believe in Democracy, and the first really major steps were taken under FDR, Social Security was instituted to gain control of billions of dollars by the FEDS,

and to beholden senior citizen voters to the liberal spending party in Washington,

followed by huge spending programs like welfare,

now we see the takeover of the education program has assured the most illiterate generation in history, ILLITERACY = FALLING FOR ANY LIES AND APATHY

Umm...Did you say something? Anything at all bearing the faintest resemblance to rational, independent thought? Didn't think so.

[bullypulpit]

Heh...

[bullypulpit]

Heh, heh...

[Gaffer]

No, not so much. No just government or society founded on the consent of the governed, nor any other government for that matter, can justify any claim to absolute authority over the individuals that are its foundation. This is tyranny, plain and simple.

Nor can the individual claim absolutely inalienable rights from the society or government they live in. Unless, of course, they are seeking life as a hermit in a cave days from civilization. If this is not the case, we have anarchy.

In either case we have a seeking for absolutes, which leads to extremism and extremism in any cause is ultimately destructive to that cause.

As I said, your a party over country man. Taking power over 300 million people who have always been free is a long tedious process. The dark lord is working on that and has the full support of tools like you. It will ultimately lead to a revolution and then anarchy and who knows what will rise from that. And you can proudly say you were a part of it. Mussolini would be proud of you.

[bullypulpit]

As I said, your a party over country man. Taking power over 300 million people who have always been free is a long tedious process. The dark lord is working on that and has the full support of tools like you. It will ultimately lead to a revolution and then anarchy and who knows what will rise from that. And you can proudly say you were a part of it. Mussolini would be proud of you.

Been smokin' the Jimson weed again I see. Just how d'you figure? And "the dark lord"? But I digress.

The needs and rights of individuals and the societies they live in are always in a dynamic balance. neither can claim absolute supremacy over the other. Where the government/society claims absolute sovereignty over the individual, we have despotism. Where the individual claims absolute sovereignty over society/government, we have anarchy. Clinging to these extremes, and that is what they are, serves only those who profit from the chaos they create.

Your claim that I am "a party over country man", whatever that is..especially since I don't belong to any political party...seems little more than a smokescreen to hide you true lack of understanding of the issues at hand. It shows you to be the perfect foil for any right-wing demagogue whose appeals consists of little more than simplistic, jingoistic rhetoric. Rhetoric which you and your fellow travelers accept as unquestioningly as a child accepts a belief in the tooth-fairy. That makes you, and you fellow travelers, the "Useful idiots" Mr. Sowell in his cited in his article.

[Gaffer]

Been smokin' the Jimson weed again I see. Just how d'you figure? And "the dark lord"? But I digress.

The needs and rights of individuals and the societies they live in are always in a dynamic balance. neither can claim absolute supremacy over the other. Where the government/society claims absolute sovereignty over the individual, we have despotism. Where the individual claims absolute sovereignty over society/government, we have anarchy. Clinging to these extremes, and that is what they are, serves only those who profit from the chaos they create.

Your claim that I am "a party over country man", whatever that is..especially since I don't belong to any political party...seems little more than a smokescreen to hide you true lack of understanding of the issues at hand. It shows you to be the perfect foil for any right-wing demagogue whose appeals consists of little more than simplistic, jingoistic rhetoric. Rhetoric which you and your fellow travelers accept as unquestioningly as a child accepts a belief in the tooth-fairy. That makes you, and you fellow travelers, the "Useful idiots" Mr. Sowell in his cited in his article.

Another liberal that isn't in the party, an independent thinker, who just happens to spout the liberal party line repeatedly on this board.You are as partisan as virgil and only interested the dems keeping power, at any cost. To say your not affiliated with a party is bullshit. Your liberal to the core. You have all their talking points down and truth makes you run for cover.

[bullypulpit]

Another liberal that isn't in the party, an independent thinker, who just happens to spout the liberal party line repeatedly on this board.You are as partisan as virgil and only interested the dems keeping power, at any cost. To say your not affiliated with a party is bullshit. Your liberal to the core. You have all their talking points down and truth makes you run for cover.

No I'm a realist who understands that in the pinch between the real and the ideal, some part of the ideal must be left behind. For the most part, liberals have no more idea of just what they are trying to liberate than conservatives have of what they are trying to conserve. You and your fellow travelers are prime examples of this latter extreme.

Or, perhaps reality just has a liberal bias. In that case, it sucks to be you.

[DragonStryk72]

George Bush's America...Laying the Foundation for Fascism
History has provided us with a very clear picture of the arc a democracy takes when it is being systematically destroyed from within. We watched this happen last September as the military seized power in Thailand, overthrowing the duly elected government.

There are a number of steps to this process, and rather like a recipe, following them will yield the desired result...A fascist state. And the political arc of the Bush administration is laying the foundation for a fascist state.

http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=7405&highlight=Bush+foundation+Fascism


You are a hypocrite. Yeah, that's about it, nothing special or anything.

[bullypulpit]

You are a hypocrite. Yeah, that's about it, nothing special or anything.

How does pointing out the obvious make me a hypocrite?

While not actively leading the nation down the path of a fascist state as the Bush administration did, the Obama administration is doinin glittle in the way of rolling back the power accrued to the Executive branch. A distinction without a difference? Perhaps. But it is far from the active abuse of Executive power to further fatten corporate purses and undermine the Constitution we saw during the previous administration. Such apathy will be the death of us.

[DragonStryk72]

How does pointing out the obvious make me a hypocrite?

uh, Hitler, the fascist leader, was used in both examples. Neither Bush nor Obama are a fascist, period, but when it is your teams getting called one, then it's wrong, horribly wrong. However, when it was Bush unfairly being put there (I mean, come on, Hitler at least knew how to conduct a war properly), you're right there supporting it. That's hypocrisy, period. You can bullshit yourself til judgment day, but it still works out just the same. You argued that comparisons to Hitler: They just know that these words sound threatening, and is that is good enough for them."

I would therefore say the same of you, using it to describe Bush. You are a hypocrite, period. Accept it or don't, your choice, but any integrity of what you post is lost to me at this point.

[bullypulpit]

uh, Hitler, the fascist leader, was used in both examples. Neither Bush nor Obama are a fascist, period, but when it is your teams getting called one, then it's wrong, horribly wrong. However, when it was Bush unfairly being put there (I mean, come on, Hitler at least knew how to conduct a war properly), you're right there supporting it. That's hypocrisy, period. You can bullshit yourself til judgment day, but it still works out just the same. You argued that comparisons to Hitler: They just know that these words sound threatening, and is that is good enough for them."

I would therefore say the same of you, using it to describe Bush. You are a hypocrite, period. Accept it or don't, your choice, but any integrity of what you post is lost to me at this point.

As for describing Bush in those terms...If the shoe fits, buy the other one. As far as comparing the Bush administration to the German government under Hitler...That analogy came to me from a man who had been a member of the luftwaffe during WWII. He stated that the actions and rhetoric of the Bush administration after 9/11 were little, if any, different from those of the German government after the burning of the riechstag in 1934.

The comparisons made by myself and many others were, and are still, valid. The claims made by right wing extremists in this nation today, comparing the Obama administration to Nazi Germany, lack any basis in either fact or reality. They are, at best fantasy. At worst they are political cynicism of the worst sort. Save for his damning failure to roll back the abuses and excesses of executive power accrued to the Executive branch under the Bush administration, there are no grounds for such a comparison. If that is my hypocrisy then so be it.

[Gaffer]

uh, Hitler, the fascist leader, was used in both examples. Neither Bush nor Obama are a fascist, period, but when it is your teams getting called one, then it's wrong, horribly wrong. However, when it was Bush unfairly being put there (I mean, come on, Hitler at least knew how to conduct a war properly), you're right there supporting it. That's hypocrisy, period. You can bullshit yourself til judgment day, but it still works out just the same. You argued that comparisons to Hitler: They just know that these words sound threatening, and is that is good enough for them."

I would therefore say the same of you, using it to describe Bush. You are a hypocrite, period. Accept it or don't, your choice, but any integrity of what you post is lost to me at this point.

Damn that was good. I have to spread the rep around.

The dark lord is nothing like hitler. stalin is more to his liking. And he's not about to give up the executive powers he has acquired. He's just going to add to them every chance he gets. bullypuppet still suffers from BDS and will never get over it.

[bullypulpit]

Damn that was good. I have to spread the rep around.

The dark lord is nothing like hitler. stalin is more to his liking. And he's not about to give up the executive powers he has acquired. He's just going to add to them every chance he gets. bullypuppet still suffers from BDS and will never get over it.

I'll stop criticizing Bush and his administration when you right wing tools wake up, start thinking for yourselves and and start doing so yourselves. Until then, your ODS will continue unabated.

[gabosaurus]

What is "stunning" about it? It's typical right-wing extremism. The author is preaching to the choir.

[Little-Acorn]

What is "stunning" about it? It's typical right-wing extremism. The author is preaching to the choir.

Translation: I can't refute anything Sowell wrote in his article, but I hate it anyway, so I'll call it names without actually pointing out anything that's "wrong", and hope that a few people might believe me instead of Sowell.

[gabosaurus]

There is nothing to refute. One idiot's warped analysis is as good as another. I could have written much the same type of condemnation of Dubya, and everyone who reads Town Hall would have called BS on me.

[bullypulpit]

Translation: I can't refute anything Sowell wrote in his article, but I hate it anyway, so I'll call it names without actually pointing out anything that's "wrong", and hope that a few people might believe me instead of Sowell.

Well Lil' Nut, the facts stand. Sowell wrote a baseless piece of right wing demagoguery. You and your fellow travelers ate that steaming turd up as if it were manna from heaven. Enjoy your shit sandwich.

[Insein]

Well Lil' Nut, the facts stand. Sowell wrote a baseless piece of right wing demagoguery. You and your fellow travelers ate that steaming turd up as if it were manna from heaven. Enjoy your shit sandwich.

How does one enjoy that? I figured I'd ask since you have the most experience digesting them.

[bullypulpit]

How does one enjoy that? I figured I'd ask since you have the most experience digesting them.

:lol:

Put enough ketchup on it and you can eat anything.