We Are Not Allowed to Critize Israel!

[abso]

lXAbHHgxT6o

[DragonStryk72]

lXAbHHgxT6o

Patently false, actually. Just the fact that the video exists impugns the very argument you are making. When you "aren't allowed" that means you can't say it to a camera that feeds to tv and internet, and are silenced from doing so. Your posts on this site also prove that this is false, as you have spoken against Israel yourself.

Not saying right or wrong on your opinion of Israel, mind you, simply stating the point that, yes, you can talk about Israel.

[abso]

:thumb:
Patently false, actually. Just the fact that the video exists impugns the very argument you are making. When you "aren't allowed" that means you can't say it to a camera that feeds to tv and internet, and are silenced from doing so. Your posts on this site also prove that this is false, as you have spoken against Israel yourself.

Not saying right or wrong on your opinion of Israel, mind you, simply stating the point that, yes, you can talk about Israel.


not allowed doesnt mean that exactly, you understood it wrong

it means that officials in america are not allowed to critisize israel officially, they may critisize it on Tv interview, or while talking to a friend, but you will never find any official statement from the white house or from the congress that critisize israel, the white house have never condemend israel for anything, even for gaza war.

[DragonStryk72]

:thumb:


not allowed doesnt mean that exactly, you understood it wrong

it means that officials in america are not allowed to critisize israel officially, they may critisize it on Tv interview, or while talking to a friend, but you will never find any official statement from the white house or from the congress that critisize israel, the white house have never condemend israel for anything, even for gaza war.

Uh, no I didn't.

Main Entry: al·low
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈlau̇\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French aluer, alouer to place, apportion, allow, from Middle French allocare — more at allocate
Date: 14th century

transitive verb 1 a : to assign as a share or suitable amount (as of time or money) <allow an hour for lunch> b : to reckon as a deduction or an addition <allow a gallon for leakage>
2 a chiefly Southern & Midland : to be of the opinion : think b dialect : say, state c : to express an opinion —usually used with as how or that
3 chiefly Southern & Midland : intend, plan
4 : admit, concede <must allow that money causes problems in marriage>
5 a : permit <doesn't allow people to smoke in his home> b : to forbear or neglect to restrain or prevent <allow the dog to roam>

You criticize Israel, so therefore you can, but yes, any opinion you are allowed to state, others are allowed to disagree with. How is a TV interview, which is obviously seen much more (i.e. posted video of it on internet forums across the globe) any less official? Was that guy fired, demoted, or promoted sideways to a job that makes him useless? If he was not, then yes, you are allowed to criticize Israel, but no, you do not get to speak on behalf of America's position. That would be like a McDonald's worker getting to decide McDonald's stance on abortion.

Being allowed to criticize Israel does not mean being allowed to determine how the US will approach Israel. Those are completely different things.

[jimnyc]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/05/2677396.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1432749.stm

[actsnoblemartin]

plenty all over the world criticize israel, I just dont see much of it as legitimate.

most of it, israel doesnt exist, has no right to exist or is evil

how exactly is that criticism?

[actsnoblemartin]

I think its just the opposite, i think the arab world is above criticism

[actsnoblemartin]

I mean you wanna criticize israel for something that someone ELSE did nearly 30 years ago. Then in the same breath say we cant criticize israel?

how about one valid legitimate criticism in 2010, not 1982

my god, ronald reagan was alive the last time you found something to complain about, sounds good to me :salute:

you know, its also israel's fault im fat and having an eating disorder too

:lol:

[Gaffer]

If it's not Bush's fault it's Israels fault. The two biggest scapegoats of the 21st century.

[Little-Acorn]

Little abso means that he can't criticize Israel in a debate forum, without someone disagreeing and debating him.

Oh, the horror, the horror.

[DragonStryk72]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/05/2677396.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1432749.stm

You know what I'm reminded of when I read those articles? My little brother Michael. When he was really young, Michael was given a pretty wide berth of leeway as far as screw ups were concerned, even if he, say, wrecked things that belonged to me and Heather, he generally only got mild rebuke. Of course, my brother's antics got worse, because since he was being coddled he came to feel that he could do no wrong, and that was about the time where he had to have it slapped into him by my mom that this was not the case.

I think that it is the same with Israel, in that they've enjoyed our protection and backing for so long that they fully trust now that we would never do anything to slow or stop them, really. This of course, will lead to an eventual slap down, just like my uppity brother needed.

[HogTrash]

If it's not Bush's fault it's Israels fault. The two biggest scapegoats of the 21st century.It's the Israeli's fault for not standing still while the Palestinians are shooting at them. :dance:

Those damn inconsiderate jews! :laugh2:

[abso]

It's the Israeli's fault for not standing still while the Palestinians are shooting at them. :dance:

Those damn inconsiderate jews! :laugh2:


no but its fault for killing 1400 people in 29 days and then call it a war on terrorism, less than 50 hamas fighters were killed, more than 350 children was killed, so yeah, i am pretty sure that they are at fault, and again i say, Hamas also is at fault for shooting rockets, i never said that its only israel that is at fault, Hamas also is a terrorist organization and i wish that someone could throw them all in prisons for the rest of their lifes.

you have the right to defend yourself, and your innocent people, but that does not give you the right to kill other innocent in the process.

if you were a police man, and a killer is hiding inside a building full of children and women, will you just bomb the whole building to kill him !!!!!

[abso]

and again, all of you people, ignoring the main point of this thread, please reply in each thread about its subject, dont just start another discussion, this thread is about USA interest in organization which does not represent any danger to the USA national security, like Hizbollah, which USA concerns itself with it so much, while as scott ritter said, it never was a national security risk to the USA, never was and never will, so why concern yourself with it so much ???

as scott ritter said, Hizbollah was never formed, till 1984, 2 years after israel invaded lebanon, so israel is directly responsible for the creation of this organization, if they havent invaded lebanon, then Hizbollah would have never existed in the first place.

and again i say, i condemn Hizbollah for firing rockets towards israelian civilians, but do you condemn israel for killin lebanese civilians ???

[Little-Acorn]

Hizbollah was never formed, till 1984, 2 years after israel invaded lebanon, so israel is directly responsible for the creation of this organization

You're sure it wasn't George W. Bush's fault? :lol:

[HogTrash]

no but its fault for killing 1400 people in 29 days and then call it a war on terrorism, less than 50 hamas fighters were killed, more than 350 children was killed, so yeah, i am pretty sure that they are at fault, and again i say, Hamas also is at fault for shooting rockets, i never said that its only israel that is at fault, Hamas also is a terrorist organization and i wish that someone could throw them all in prisons for the rest of their lifes.

you have the right to defend yourself, and your innocent people, but that does not give you the right to kill other innocent in the process.

if you were a police man, and a killer is hiding inside a building full of children and women, will you just bomb the whole building to kill him !!!!!Maybe the parents of those 350 dead children should have prevented the cowardly Hamas from hiding among their children and launching attacks from their neighborhoods.

After all, you can't expect the Israelis, or anyone else for that matter, to sit idly by and allow their people to be bombed into oblivian day after day, and do absolutely nothing.

[abso]

Maybe the parents of those 350 dead children should have prevented the cowardly Hamas from hiding among their children and launching attacks from their neighborhoods.

After all, you can't expect the Israelis, or anyone else for that matter, to sit idly by and allow their people to be bombed into oblivian day after day, and do absolutely nothing.

and you cant expect people like palestinians to be killed day after day and not bomb israel, its the same point of view


if you supprt israel in attacking palestine, then you are supporting also palestinians in attacking israel.

about me, i dont support any attack, from palestinians or from israel, i condemn both.

you just think that palestinians are attacking israel for fun ???

have you ever asked yourself why would a 12 years old child throw rocks at tanks ?

you think that they are deams, but sir, they arent, they are humans just like you, who want to be free, i dont praise them for the way they act, i dont like them throwing rockets into israel, i dont like that, and i dont respect that, but i dont also respect a country that killes More than 350 children to get a few fighters.

about their parents, some of them are hopless, some of them maybe not able to say no to a fighter which enters his home, can you stop an armed group from entering your home ???

a palestinian doctor, who actually lives in israel, and works in a hospital there, his family lives in gaza, and he was with them during the gaza war, there was no fighters in his home, and still, a holicopter fired a missile into his home, killing his three daughters and just one daughter survived and she was transfered to an israelian hospital to be treated there because he is a well known dr in his area so israel had to save his last daughter.

so, can you imagine how many cases like him exist ???, how many homes have been attacked while there were no fighters within it at all, you cant launch a war within a heavely populated civilian area while saying that you only target armed men, if thats the case, then they should have attacked only with soliders on foot, not with airplanes, as airplanes can never be accurate.

o condemn violence in all its forms, coming from an israelian or from palestinain, i condemn both, but you just condemn palestinians only

you think that palestinians are the root of the problem while forgetting that israel is the one who is occupying their land, if russia occupied USA, will you attack them or not ?

its not the palestinains who attacked first, its israel who has taken their land, and even David Ben Gurion the founder of israel admitted that, so why wont you just admit that ?

[HogTrash]

and you cant expect people like palestinians to be killed day after day and not bomb israel, its the same point of view


if you supprt israel in attacking palestine, then you are supporting also palestinians in attacking israel.

about me, i dont support any attack, from palestinians or from israel, i condemn both.

you just think that palestinians are attacking israel for fun ???

have you ever asked yourself why would a 12 years old child throw rocks at tanks ?

you think that they are deams, but sir, they arent, they are humans just like you, who want to be free, i dont praise them for the way they act, i dont like them throwing rockets into israel, i dont like that, and i dont respect that, but i dont also respect a country that killes More than 350 children to get a few fighters.

about their parents, some of them are hopless, some of them maybe not able to say no to a fighter which enters his home, can you stop an armed group from entering your home ???

a palestinian doctor, who actually lives in israel, and works in a hospital there, his family lives in gaza, and he was with them during the gaza war, there was no fighters in his home, and still, a holicopter fired a missile into his home, killing his three daughters and just one daughter survived and she was transfered to an israelian hospital to be treated there because he is a well known dr in his area so israel had to save his last daughter.

so, can you imagine how many cases like him exist ???, how many homes have been attacked while there were no fighters within it at all, you cant launch a war within a heavely populated civilian area while saying that you only target armed men, if thats the case, then they should have attacked only with soliders on foot, not with airplanes, as airplanes can never be accurate.

o condemn violence in all its forms, coming from an israelian or from palestinain, i condemn both, but you just condemn palestinians only

you think that palestinians are the root of the problem while forgetting that israel is the one who is occupying their land, if russia occupied USA, will you attack them or not ?

its not the palestinains who attacked first, its israel who has taken their land, and even David Ben Gurion the founder of israel admitted that, so why wont you just admit that ?I doubt very seriously that Israel is the aggressors or instigators of these attacks.

Israel is a tiny speck in a vast sea of Middle Eastern Islam...They are surrounded and outnumbered.

Common sense tells me that the Israelis would like nothing better than to end this bloodshed and be left alone.

But this is impossible, do to the relentless Hamas attacks from Gaza and Jordan, so they have no alternative but to retaliate.

The children who are dying can be blamed on no one except the cowardly Hamas terrorists who bring this destruction down on their own people.

All that the Palestinians need to do is stop shooting and they will nolonger be shot at by the Israelis...Unfortunately untill then, the children will continue to die.

I believe you are an intelligent young man and because of this I think you are aware of these things, but are forbidden to say it in your world.


have you ever asked yourself why would a 12 years old child throw rocks at tanks ?I know why the 12 year old boy throws rocks at tanks...Like you, he has been indoctrinated to hate for his entire existance on earth...How sad.

[abso]

I doubt very seriously that Israel is the aggressors or instigators of these attacks.

Israel is a tiny speck in a vast sea of Middle Eastern Islam...They are surrounded and outnumbered.

Common sense tells me that the Israelis would like nothing better than to end this bloodshed and be left alone.

But this is impossible, do to the relentless Hamas attacks from Gaza and Jordan, so they have no alternative but to retaliate.

The children who are dying can be blamed on no one except the cowardly Hamas terrorists who bring this destruction down on their own people.

All that the Palestinians need to do is stop shooting and they will nolonger be shot at by the Israelis...Unfortunately untill then, the children will continue to die.

I believe you are an intelligent young man and because of this I think you are aware of these things, but are forbidden to say it in your world.

I know why the 12 year old boy throws rocks at tanks...Like you, he has been indoctrinated to hate for his entire existance on earth...How sad.


again you assume that i have been doctorinated to hate, sir, please notice, that i am egyptian, i dont actually live in a state of war with israel, my country has a peace agreement with them, we recognize them as our neighbours, and again i say, i dont hate them.

i understand its hard to feel that you are hated from everyone around you, thats how israeli's feels, but they will never achieve peace by what they are doing, they will only reach a peace agreement when they leave all the occupied areas, and go back to 1967 borders, all the arabian countries agreed to recognize israel, and sign a peace treaty with it, if they just go back to 1967 borders, and that was an official offer from the League of Arab States, it was not a joke, its an official offer, and israel refused it many times, because they refuse to leave the occupied areas in syria, and palestine, and they refuse to leave the settlements which even the United States prisedent asks them to stop building while they refuse.



-by the way, the treaty was even approved by Hamas, Hamas agreed to stop fighting israel if they go back to 1967 borders.

League of Arab States offer them peace treaty and they refuse.

USA asks them to stop building settlements and they also refuse,

USA asked israel many times during the last 40 years to go back to the 1967 borders, and everytime israel refuses

UN asked israel to leave the occupied palestinian lands, and asked them to go back to the international recognized borders, which is 1967 borders, and they refused.

what else can the arabs do ?, do you expect the palestinians to just stop fighting and forget about their occupied lands and let israel have everything they occupied after 1967 ?

i really hope from the bottom of my heart that peace can be achieved, i want to stop see people dying everywhere, in iraq, palestine, afghanistan, sudan, israel, i dont like war, and i am sure that everyone here is the same, none likes war, war is the most terrifying tragedy, none needs to die, we should be all living in peace together, but again i say, that can never be reached while some countries occupying others.

Israel occupying palestine
USA occupying Iraq

you are always talking about Hamas like if they are firing rockets for fun, like if israel is not occupying their lands.


finally, i would like you to notice, that you always condemn Hamas for firing rockets and i agree completely with you

but i also condemn israel for occupying palestinian lands, so, do you agree with me ?

Do you admit that israel is occupying palestinian lands or NOT ?

please start your reply by answering my question, then say whatever you want after you answer it, thanks.....

[Gaffer]

Egypt is not launching missiles at Israel or attacking in anyway. Therefore Egypt is not being attacked by Israel. The same would apply with the pals if they would just leave things be. Attacks bring retaliation. Hiding among children so you can use their dead bodies for propaganda is not fighting a war. It's creating victims to be used. And you buy into it.

No treaties have been offered that impose anything on the arabs. The Israelis are suppose to give things up while the arabs give up nothing and can set up positions from which to commit further attacks. Since there are no guarantees that the arabs won't attack Israel has to maintain its borders. The un will do nothing and no other country will aid them. Now we have the dark lord in office and he's against Israel too.

[HogTrash]

again you assume that i have been doctorinated to hate, sir, please notice, that i am egyptian, i dont actually live in a state of war with israel, my country has a peace agreement with them, we recognize them as our neighbours, and again i say, i dont hate them.

i understand its hard to feel that you are hated from everyone around you, thats how israeli's feels, but they will never achieve peace by what they are doing, they will only reach a peace agreement when they leave all the occupied areas, and go back to 1967 borders, all the arabian countries agreed to recognize israel, and sign a peace treaty with it, if they just go back to 1967 borders, and that was an official offer from the League of Arab States, it was not a joke, its an official offer, and israel refused it many times, because they refuse to leave the occupied areas in syria, and palestine, and they refuse to leave the settlements which even the United States prisedent asks them to stop building while they refuse.



-by the way, the treaty was even approved by Hamas, Hamas agreed to stop fighting israel if they go back to 1967 borders.

League of Arab States offer them peace treaty and they refuse.

USA asks them to stop building settlements and they also refuse,

USA asked israel many times during the last 40 years to go back to the 1967 borders, and everytime israel refuses

UN asked israel to leave the occupied palestinian lands, and asked them to go back to the international recognized borders, which is 1967 borders, and they refused.

what else can the arabs do ?, do you expect the palestinians to just stop fighting and forget about their occupied lands and let israel have everything they occupied after 1967 ?

i really hope from the bottom of my heart that peace can be achieved, i want to stop see people dying everywhere, in iraq, palestine, afghanistan, sudan, israel, i dont like war, and i am sure that everyone here is the same, none likes war, war is the most terrifying tragedy, none needs to die, we should be all living in peace together, but again i say, that can never be reached while some countries occupying others.

Israel occupying palestine
USA occupying Iraq

you are always talking about Hamas like if they are firing rockets for fun, like if israel is not occupying their lands.


finally, i would like you to notice, that you always condemn Hamas for firing rockets and i agree completely with you

but i also condemn israel for occupying palestinian lands, so, do you agree with me ?

Do you admit that israel is occupying palestinian lands or NOT ?

please start your reply by answering my question, then say whatever you want after you answer it, thanks.....The muslim nations of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Lebanon should have agreed with the pre 1967 borders before they attacked Israel in 1967.

Instead, these nations attempted to destroy Israel and take their lands by force through the use of united Arab military might, but their plans failed and Israel prevailed.

These Arab nations lost the war and as a result they lost the lands they now whine, bitch and cry over and murder innocent children for, hoping Israel will tire of the carnage and surrender the land back.

It ain't going to happen abso...The post-1967 borders are established...To the victors goes the spoils because you guys lost a war that you started...Hamas needs to crawl back in their hole and lick their wounds.

Because of their failure during the Six Day War, Israels enemies have concluded that they are not men enough face the Israelis in combat, so they have resorted to terrorism by targeting women, children and other unarmed non-combatants.

The truth is not always kind.

[Little-Acorn]

It's good that this thread (and others like it) were moved to the Israel/Palestine Conflict forum.

Here, trolls like abso can post all the one-sided propaganda they want.

And people who want to feed the trolls for some reason, can do so to their hearts' delight.

And people who don't want to re-fight and re-re-fight the same Holy Wars over and over, can stay out if they don't like it, and never be bothered by all the talking-and-not-listening that goes on with topics like this.

An excellent use of Forum resources... and structure.

[HogTrash]

It's good that this thread (and others like it) were moved to the Israel/Palestine Conflict forum.

Here, trolls like abso can post all the one-sided propaganda they want.

And people who want to feed the trolls for some reason, can do so to their hearts' delight.

And people who don't want to re-fight and re-re-fight the same Holy Wars over and over, can stay out if they don't like it, and never be bothered by all the talking-and-not-listening that goes on with topics like this.

An excellent use of Forum resources... and structure.I whole-heartedly agree Little-Acorn. :salute:

Special Forums designed for the discussin of unique subjects can be very useful, as long as Political Correctness is not the standard by which they are approved.

[abso]

The muslim nations of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Lebanon should have agreed with the pre 1967 borders before they attacked Israel in 1967.

Instead, these nations attempted to destroy Israel and take their lands by force through the use of united Arab military might, but their plans failed and Israel prevailed.

These Arab nations lost the war and as a result they lost the lands they now whine, bitch and cry over and murder innocent children for, hoping Israel will tire of the carnage and surrender the land back.

It ain't going to happen abso...The post-1967 borders are established...To the victors goes the spoils because you guys lost a war that you started...Hamas needs to crawl back in their hole and lick their wounds.

Because of their failure during the Six Day War, Israels enemies have concluded that they are not men enough face the Israelis in combat, so they have resorted to terrorism by targeting women, children and other unarmed non-combatants.

The truth is not always kind.

It seems that you dont know some facts, like that israel is the one who started war, and egypt never shot the first bullet.

when the tension started, USA president at that time, sent a message to Gamal Abdel Nasser, the egyptian president at that time, throught the egyptian ambassador in USA, he asked Abdel Nasser, that egypt does not start the fight, and Abdel Nasser agreed, and he never started the war, it was israel that attacked first, if they have not attacked first, then the war might had a changed result, because then we would have our full Air force to cover our troops in sinai, but when israel started the war, they destroyed all our airports and none except very few egyptian fighter could fly up there and fight the israelian air force, so they destroyed the air force, then our army never had any air cover to fight the israelian army, so they had to withdraw.

anyway, Israel started the war, how could you say that the arab nations attacked israel first !!!!!!!!!!, why would we attack it while we already know that USA will defend them with their army if we achieved any partial victory during combat, so we knew that we will be facing the USA army if we attacked, so we never did start the war, go and read again about 1967 and straighten your facts.

"On June 5, 1967, Israel launched an attack on Egypt. It initially told the UN that Egypt had struck first, but this claim was subsequently withdrawn and Israel said it had taken preemptive action because it believed an Egyptian attack was imminent"
<SUP id=cite_ref-preemptive_19-0 class=reference></SUP>

What they believe or not, is not relevant, if we started the war, USA would have been involved to protect israel, but we didnt, israel is the one who started it not us.

[Gaffer]

It seems that you dont know some facts, like that israel is the one who started war, and egypt never shot the first bullet.

when the tension started, USA president at that time, sent a message to Gamal Abdel Nasser, the egyptian president at that time, throught the egyptian ambassador in USA, he asked Abdel Nasser, that egypt does not start the fight, and Abdel Nasser agreed, and he never started the war, it was israel that attacked first, if they have not attacked first, then the war might had a changed result, because then we would have our full Air force to cover our troops in sinai, but when israel started the war, they destroyed all our airports and none except very few egyptian fighter could fly up there and fight the israelian air force, so they destroyed the air force, then our army never had any air cover to fight the israelian army, so they had to withdraw.

anyway, Israel started the war, how could you say that the arab nations attacked israel first !!!!!!!!!!, why would we attack it while we already know that USA will defend them with their army if we achieved any partial victory during combat, so we knew that we will be facing the USA army if we attacked, so we never did start the war, go and read again about 1967 and straighten your facts.

"On June 5, 1967, Israel launched an attack on Egypt. It initially told the UN that Egypt had struck first, but this claim was subsequently withdrawn and Israel said it had taken preemptive action because it believed an Egyptian attack was imminent"
<SUP id=cite_ref-preemptive_19-0 class=reference></SUP>

What they believe or not, is not relevant, if we started the war, USA would have been involved to protect israel, but we didnt, israel is the one who started it not us.

Egypt had announced it's intention to joint the other arab states in a war against Israel. The other arab states attack Israel and while that was going on they struck against the only air force the arabs had at the time that was a real threat. Egypt had no intention of sitting out the war, they were full partners in the assault. They just got caught by surprise because they didn't expect the Israeli's to pull their planes from the front line defenses and launch an attack. Read something besides the arab version some time.

[Kathianne]

The same actors + Turkey + The Obama administration are once again working in tandem.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=178812


...
Israel is endangered today as it has never been before. The Turkish-Hamas flotilla two weeks ago precipitated a number of dangerous developments. Rather than attend to all of them, Israel’s leadership is devoting itself almost exclusively to contending with the least dangerous among them while ignoring the emerging threats with the potential to lead us to great calamities.

Since the Navy’s lethal takeover of the Mavi Marmara, Israel has been stood before an international diplomatic firing squad led by the UN and Europe and supported by the Obama administration. Firmly backed by European and largely unopposed by Washington, the UN is moving swiftly towards setting up a new Goldstone- style anti-Israel kangaroo court. That canned tribunal will rule that Israel has no right to defend itself and attempt to force Israel to end its lawful naval blockade of Hamas-controlled Gaza.
...

Yeah, Hamas et al are still at it, including some Egyptian citizens...

[HogTrash]

It seems that you dont know some facts, like that israel is the one who started war, and egypt never shot the first bullet.

when the tension started, USA president at that time, sent a message to Gamal Abdel Nasser, the egyptian president at that time, throught the egyptian ambassador in USA, he asked Abdel Nasser, that egypt does not start the fight, and Abdel Nasser agreed, and he never started the war, it was israel that attacked first, if they have not attacked first, then the war might had a changed result, because then we would have our full Air force to cover our troops in sinai, but when israel started the war, they destroyed all our airports and none except very few egyptian fighter could fly up there and fight the israelian air force, so they destroyed the air force, then our army never had any air cover to fight the israelian army, so they had to withdraw.

anyway, Israel started the war, how could you say that the arab nations attacked israel first !!!!!!!!!!, why would we attack it while we already know that USA will defend them with their army if we achieved any partial victory during combat, so we knew that we will be facing the USA army if we attacked, so we never did start the war, go and read again about 1967 and straighten your facts.

"On June 5, 1967, Israel launched an attack on Egypt. It initially told the UN that Egypt had struck first, but this claim was subsequently withdrawn and Israel said it had taken preemptive action because it believed an Egyptian attack was imminent"
<SUP id=cite_ref-preemptive_19-0 class=reference></SUP>

What they believe or not, is not relevant, if we started the war, USA would have been involved to protect israel, but we didnt, israel is the one who started it not us.You have been misled abso...Your history has been twisted and rewritten by those who wish to keep the hate alive.

If you are unwilling to accept the truth, then you will continue to live a lie and will most likely pass that lie onto your children.

I was 16 years old in 1967 and remember watching the news reports of the Six Day War as it progressed and the events leading up to it.

American journalism is no longer reliable, but this hasn't always been the case and in 1967 we could still believe what they were telling us.

Here is the truth if you are interested:

What led to the Six Day War in 1967?

Terrorist Attacks on Israel
From early 1965 to the Six-Day War in June 1967, the PLO through Fatah pursued a consistent policy of border attacks, particularly along the Jordanian and Lebanese borders. Criticism of these activities by the Arab governments and by local public opinion persuaded Fatah leaders to adopt a new approach known as "the entanglement theory." This involved using sabotage to force Israel to adopt an offensive position, which in turn would force the Arabs to step up their military preparedness. This cycle of action-retaliation-reaction would lead to a gradual escalation of tension on the borders, and eventually to the Six Day War in 1967.

In 1965, 35 terrorist raids were conducted against Israel. In 1966, the number increased to 41. In just the first four months of 1967, 37 attacks were launched.

The number of dangerous incidents on the Syrian border increased following Israel’s activation of the National Water Carrier from the Sea of Galilee to the Negev in 1964. Syria and the other Arab countries opposed the National Water Carrier project and tried to destroy it by diverting the tributaries of the Jordan river located in their territories; Israel bombed the diversion works in response. This tension came against the backdrop of the on-going border clashes along the demilitarized zone between Israel and Syria, as Syria resisted Israel's attempts to increase use of the DMZ for Israeli agriculture. (The DMZ was the result of the terms of the Israel-Syria armistice signed on July 20, 1949.) Syria launched attacks on Israeli farmers cultivating land in the demilitarized zone and on Israeli fishing boats and other craft in the Sea of Galilee, shelling from the commanding Golan Heights that rise dramatically to the east of the border areas.

Military Provocation By Arab Countries and Soviet Disinformation
While Israel consistently expressed a desire to negotiate a peace with its neighbors, there was no matching sentiment on the Arab side. In an address to the UN General Assembly on October 10, 1960, Foreign Minister Golda Meir challenged Arab leaders to meet with Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion to negotiate a peace settlement. Nasser (Egypt) answered on October 15, saying that Israel was trying to deceive world opinion, and reiterating that his country would never recognize the Jewish State. Nasser's rhetoric became increasingly bellicose; on March 8, 1965 he said:

We shall not enter Palestine with its soil covered in sand. We shall enter it with its soil saturated in blood.
A few months later, Nasser expressed the Arabs' goal to be:

... the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel.
Other Arab leaders from Syria, Jordan, and Iraq joined in the rhetoric and preparations for war, increasing pressure on Egypt's President Gamal Nasser, perceived as the leader of the Arab world. Syria's attacks along the DMZ grew more frequent in 1965 and 1966. Syria's attacks on Israeli kibbutzim from the Golan Heights provoked a retaliatory strike on April 7, 1967, during which Israeli planes shot down six Syrian MiGs. Israel followed up by re-introducing military forces to the DMZ.

At the same time, and unknown to the Israelis, the Soviet Union mounted a disinformation campaign pushing Egypt to join Syria against Israel. At that time, the Soviets were providing military and economic aid to both Syria and Egypt. On May 13, 1967 a Soviet parliamentary delegation visited Cairo and informed the Egyptian leaders that Israel had concentrated eleven to thirteen brigades along the Syrian border in preparation for an assault within a few days, with the intention of overthrowing the revolutionary Syrian Government. This was a complete fabrication designed by the Soviets to destabilize the Middle East. Similar false information may have been given to Egypt by the Soviets as early as May 2.

The build up and aggressive intent were denied by Israel. UN Secretary General U Thant reported that UNTSO observers on the Syrian border:

... have verified the absence of troop concentrations and absence of noteworthy military movements on both sides of the [Syrian] line.
Nasser probably correctly interpreted the Soviet information as an indication to him that the time was ripe for an attack on Israel and that he had their backing. With the United States deeply distracted by the War in Vietnam, the Soviets had reason to think there would be no US intervention. Nassar then abandoned his former cautious policy and took the lead for new aggression against Israel. Syria and Iraq eagerly joined Egypt's preparations, increasing the momentum toward war.

On May 15, Israel's 19th Independence Day, Egyptian troops began moving into the Sinai and massing near the Israeli border. By May 18, Syrian troops were prepared for battle along the Golan Heights.

On May 16, Nassar requested the withdrawal of the UN Emergency Force, stationed in the Sinai since 1956. Egyptian forces moved up to the UNEF lines and began to harrass the UN positions. Without bringing the matter to the attention of the General Assembly, as his predecessor had promised, Secretary-General U Thant complied with the demand. This was a direct violation of the conditions under which Israel had returned control of the Sinai to Egypt after the Sinai Campaign. The UN force was supposed to safeguard Israel from Egypt again closing the Straits of Tiran or launching terrorist attacks from that quarter.

Blockade of the Straits of Tiran
In 1956, the United States gave Israel assurances that it recognized the Jewish State's right of access to the Straits of Tiran. In 1957, at the UN, 17 maritime powers declared that Israel had a right to transit the Strait. Moreover, any blockade violated the Convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone, which was adopted by the UN Conference on the Law of the Sea on April 27, 1958. Nonetheless, on on the night of May 22-23, 1967 Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to all Israeli shipping and all ships bound for Eilat. This blockade cut off Israel's only supply route with Asia and stopped the flow of oil from its main supplier, Iran.

Nasser was fully aware of the pressure he was exerting to force Israel's hand. The day after the blockade was set up, he said defiantly:

The Jews threaten to make war. I reply: Welcome! We are ready for war.

Final Blows Lead to War
There is evidence that Egypt was warned by the US and the Soviet Union in late May 1967 that war should be avoided, but by then the momentum to war was unstoppable.

King Hussein of Jordan signed a defense pact with Egypt on May 30, 1967, under which Jordan joined the Egyptian-Syrian military alliance of 1966 and placed its army on both sides of the Jordan river under Egyptian command. He had little choice since Jordan housed 700,000 Palestinian Arabs whose rioting in November 1966 almost brought down Hussein's government. On June 4, Iraq joined the military alliance with Egypt, Jordan and Syria. President Abdur Rahman Aref of Iraq added these words to the mountain of provocation:

The existence of Israel is an error which must be rectified. This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear -- to wipe Israel off the map.
Armed forces in the Arab countries were mobilized. Israel was confronted by an Arab force of some 465,000 troops, over 2,880 tanks and 810 aircraft. The armies of Kuwait, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Iraq were contributing troops and arms to the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian fronts.

Israeli forces had been on high alert during the three weeks of tension which began on May 15, 1967 when it became known that Egypt had concentrated large-scale forces in the Sinai peninsula, an alert status Israel could not maintain indefinitely. The country could not accept interdiction of its sea lane through the Gulf of Aqaba. Israel had no choice but preemptive action. To do this successfully, Israel had to achieve surprise, not wait for an Arab invasion, a potential catastrophic situation. On June 4, the Cabinet authorized the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defence to decide on appropriate steps to defend the State of Israel.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1948to1967_sixday_backgd.php

Who started The Six Day War?
http://yije.org/israel/6%20day%20war.pdf

:salute:

[Kathianne]

Very good post, HT.

Contrary to Abso's position that Israel cannot be criticized, it's pretty much all that happens. The Obama administration is now joining forces that Abso happens to agree with. The truth is very different, even HP manages to put one article out there:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/qanta-ahmed/israel-and-the-flotilla-o_b_613660.html


...However, unfailingly, in every rendition, the May 31st Flotilla bearing humanitarian aid has been universally cast as a force for moral good, a symbolic 'liberator', as a response to a forgotten need. A colossal gesture of providing massive cargo bearing millions of dollars of aid is indeed philanthropic. But there is more to this than that.

From the first moments, I was flummoxed as to why these ships were suddenly arriving at this time, even though the blockade is over 3 years old. More intriguing was to consider why private interests in Turkey were underwriting this astonishingly expensive effort when their elected government has been an ally of Israel for years, even to the extent of engaging in regular naval exercises with the Israeli Navy in the Eastern Mediterranean.

For a long time, the portrayal of Israelis has been universally monolithic: oppressive, brutal, inhuman and heartless. The parallels between Israeli and Jew; military engagement with national identity; state policy with individual responsibility are conveniently blurred into one homogeneous, maligned, dislikeable edifice. Evidently we, the viewers, the invisible media auteurs, have lost all powers of nuance and discernment. In every report, Israeli brutality, whether on the ship, or in Gaza has been emphasized, both implicitly and explicitly.

At no point have I heard a sane discussion on the complex reasons why a blockade was in place or indeed why Egypt had for years cooperated in maintaining the blockade through the closure of Rafah. Rafah remained firmly shut throughout the entirety of Operation Cast Lead, immutably so, even in the face of pleas from the Arab world. Egypt's collusion in Operation Cast Lead was an acutely felt betrayal which resonated globally.

...