16th Amendment Isn't Valid Because Ohio Isn't A State

[crin63]

This is an interesting study that I have just begun. Not because of just the 16th Amendment but all of the ramifications.

Ohio wasn't properly ratified to become a state in 1803 so in 1853 congress passed a resolution to retroactively make Ohio a state. Since congress cannot Constitutionally pass an ex post facto law or bill of attainder then Ohio is still not legally a state.

The text of the Constitution, Article I, Section 9; Clause 3 is "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed".

What does this all actually undo if Ohio isn't legally a state? How many bills proposed and/or signed by presidents born in Ohio who are not natural born citizens need to be overturned?


It all started when Ohio was preparing to celebrate the 150th anniversary of its admission to the Union in 1953. Researchers looking for the original statehood documents discovered there'd been a little oversight. While Congress had approved Ohio's boundaries and constitution, it had never passed a resolution formally admitting the future land of the Buckeyes. Technically, therefore, Ohio wasn't a state.

Predictably, when this came to light it was the subject of much merriment. One senator joshingly suggested that his colleagues from Ohio were drawing federal paychecks under false pretenses.

But Ohio congressman George Bender thought it was no laughing matter. He introduced a bill in Congress to admit Ohio to the Union retroactive to March 1, 1803. At a special session at the old state capital in Chillicothe, the Ohio state legislature approved a new petition for statehood that was delivered to Washington on horseback. Congress subsequently passed a joint resolution, and President Eisenhower, after a few more jokes, signed it on August 7, 1953.

But then the tax resisters got to work. They argued that since Ohio wasn't officially a state until 1953, its ratification of the 16th Amendment in 1911 was invalid, and thus Congress had no authority to enact an income tax.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1115/is-u-s-income-tax-invalid-because-ohio-wasnt-legally-a-state-when-the-16th-amendment-was-ratified

[Gaffer]

I remember reading something on this years ago. So I guess technically Ohio is an independent sovereign country that doesn't have to conform to the federal laws.

[Little-Acorn]

How many bills proposed and/or signed by presidents born in Ohio who are not natural born citizens need to be overturned?

Honestly, what chance do you think there is, of overturning any such acts on these grounds? Really?

It's always a hoot to see what wild goose chases people think we should devote massive amounts of time and energy to.

[HogTrash]

Honestly, what chance do you think there is, of overturning any such acts on these grounds? Really?

It's always a hoot to see what wild goose chases people think we should devote massive amounts of time and energy to.If "Buckeye Sovereignty" was challenged in federal court and the letter of the law was adhered to, there would be no choice but to find in favor of Ohio's independent status.

With the Ohio and Mississippi rivers open to the Gulf and Great Lakes shipping lanes open to the Atlantic, Ohio is not landlocked and could easily have an international economy.

Ohio is a heavily populated state that is also an industrial and agricultural giant that could use these things as leverage in future federal disputes over states rights or whatever.

[DragonStryk72]

If "Buckeye Sovereignty" was challenged in federal court and the letter of the law was adhered to, there would be no choice but to find in favor of Ohio's independent status.

With the Ohio and Mississippi rivers open to the Gulf and Great Lakes shipping lanes open to the Atlantic, Ohio is not landlocked and could easily have an international economy.

Ohio is a heavily populated state that is also an industrial and agricultural giant that could use these things as leverage in future federal disputes over states rights or whatever.

Dude, come on, that's not even vaguely gonna happen. I get it that the letter of the law and all, but really, this government? Maybe if we had the Tea Party in control of the Supreme Court, but we don't.

[HogTrash]

Dude, come on, that's not even vaguely gonna happen. I get it that the letter of the law and all, but really, this government? Maybe if we had the Tea Party in control of the Supreme Court, but we don't.I was simply presenting some interesting facts and scenerios for discussion, take it for what it's worth.

Considering the suicidal path the nation has taken, a state looking for a loophole to break from the union may not be as far-fetched as you think.

If your amazing intellect wasn't confined to a box, you too might experience an occasional original thought...Now wouldn't that be nice, dude?

[HogTrash]

Originally Posted by DragonStryk72I would like to apologize...I'm a little grumpy today, and being called "dude" will sometimes get a negative response.

Once while having a serious discussion with my son, who was a teenager at the time, he called his dear old dad "dude".

It turned out to be a very bad decision so we both agreed that calling dad "dude" wasn't such a good idea...Teenagers!

[Binky]

I would like to apologize...I'm a little grumpy today, and being called "dude" will sometimes get a negative response.

Once while having a serious discussion with my son, who was a teenager at the time, he called his dear old dad "dude".

It turned out to be a very bad decision so we both agreed that calling dad "dude" wasn't such a good idea...Teenagers!




So you're a member of the "grumpy old mens club"....I bet you have a lot of company.... It just so happens that on occasion, I'm a member of the "grumpy old ladies" club..... Just having to deal with the idiocy out there is enough to make one grumpy......

[crin63]

Honestly, what chance do you think there is, of overturning any such acts on these grounds? Really?

It's always a hoot to see what wild goose chases people think we should devote massive amounts of time and energy to.

I realize that the federal government could/would never allow that reality to happen. I think its an interesting study though.

[Trinity]

I remember reading something on this years ago. So I guess technically Ohio is an independent sovereign country that doesn't have to conform to the federal laws.

So if I'm reading this correctly that would mean any and all federal laws would be null and void in the state of Ohio???

Hmmm and to think there was a shit load of taxpayers money that was just spent over a lawsuit that could have been rendered null and void because it was a federally implemented law.


I got one thing to say :lmao: stupid dumb ignorant law makers.

[Trinity]

So you're a member of the "grumpy old mens club"....I bet you have a lot of company.... It just so happens that on occasion, I'm a member of the "grumpy old ladies" club..... Just having to deal with the idiocy out there is enough to make one grumpy......

Me too....:coffee:

[Gaffer]

I would like to apologize...I'm a little grumpy today, and being called "dude" will sometimes get a negative response.

Once while having a serious discussion with my son, who was a teenager at the time, he called his dear old dad "dude".

It turned out to be a very bad decision so we both agreed that calling dad "dude" wasn't such a good idea...Teenagers!

I'm with ya there Hog, call me old man, old fart, old war horse or just about anything except faggot or dude. And nobody here is old enough to call me son.

[DragonStryk72]

I would like to apologize...I'm a little grumpy today, and being called "dude" will sometimes get a negative response.

Once while having a serious discussion with my son, who was a teenager at the time, he called his dear old dad "dude".

It turned out to be a very bad decision so we both agreed that calling dad "dude" wasn't such a good idea...Teenagers!

I say dude a lot. I didn't use to, but a navy buddy of mine from the west coast sort of ingrained the word into me over three years. We were literally given the same duty station every place we went, even in boot. This relegated us to spending the kind of time around each other that even married couples would balk at.

It isn't so much a narrow minded point. If we could get the Tea Party fully divorced of the republican party, and make it a real political party of its own, we could see some definite sparks there. I'm hoping that the Tea Party actually manages to make some real changes, but right now, it's still gaining it's legs, so we'll have to see what happens.

[krisy]

Pretty interesting.

I call for a special election so we can vote our governor and sec of state out of office:thumb:

[revelarts]

Plenty of people take the idea very seriously. even in Ohio.
here's a site dedicated to the idea of Ohio session (http://ohiorepublic.blogspot.com/2007/10/making-secessionism-respectable.html). Not that it never was a State but if you dig hard enough you'd probably find that as well.
http://ohiorepublic.blogspot.com/2007/10/making-secessionism-respectable.html

It sounds crazy and repulsive to many ears today but the idea of the state's having the right of session and people in states thinking that might be the only valid choice left against a non-responsive federal machine has grown steadily over the past 20 or so years.

the states rights movement (http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2009/02/09/state-sovereignty-movement-quietly-growing/) has moved a lot farther along though, the idea of States claiming jurisdiction and control of areas that the feds have, since at least the 1940's (many say the civil war) have begun o claim.

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/

[revelarts]

U.S. law is a tricky thing . So many dots have not been crossed and some of the t's have been dotted. Court cases, laws, regulations and agencies that clearly go against the Constitution sit in plain site for those who take the time to look. But inertia and the status quo make most afraid if not offended to challenge it.
The 16th amendement is one that come up a lot in patriot circles I haven't looked into much myself. But on the surface reading it seems they have a point. But the feds have guns and jail to back um up, law/nolaw be damned.

[gabosaurus]

The entire issue is addressed here. An interesting read:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1115/is-u-s-income-tax-invalid-because-ohio-wasnt-legally-a-state-when-the-16th-amendment-was-ratified

[Little-Acorn]

If "Buckeye Sovereignty" was challenged in federal court and the letter of the law was adhered to, there would be no choice but to find in favor of Ohio's independent status.


Honestly, what chance do you think there is, of overturning any such acts on these grounds? Really?

[SassyLady]

I think any state that feels it can stand alone should be allowed to do that. If the people of that state want it, then go for it.

If anyone born in that state decides they no longer want to live there they will have to apply for citizenship to live in one of the other states. And, all those who were born there and living in other states would be "illegal" I guess.

So, before the people of a state vote to secede they need to look at all the long term ramifications.

Also, I'm not totally clear on this .... but can the rest of the nation vote to kick out a state? Wow, that would be an interesting thread......hmmmm.

[SassyLady]

Honestly, what chance do you think there is, of overturning any such acts on these grounds? Really?

It's always a hoot to see what wild goose chases people think we should devote massive amounts of time and energy to.

I am grateful that the founding fathers devoted their time, energy, money and lives to getting the union started.

Speaking of "wild goose chases" Acorn.....I thought the whole "banning prayer from school" and governmental institutions was a wild goose chase but look where we are now. Never underestimate that where there is a will, there is a way.

Can anyone else think of something they thought was just a wild goose chase and would never happen? Something totally inconceivable?

[SassyLady]

Me too....:coffee:


So you're a member of the "grumpy old mens club"....I bet you have a lot of company.... It just so happens that on occasion, I'm a member of the "grumpy old ladies" club..... Just having to deal with the idiocy out there is enough to make one grumpy......

Welcome everyone to the "Old Grumpies" club!!! :laugh2: :cheers2:

[SassyLady]

The entire issue is addressed here. An interesting read:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1115/is-u-s-income-tax-invalid-because-ohio-wasnt-legally-a-state-when-the-16th-amendment-was-ratified

Isn't that the same link that Crin posted? Is there something else that you wanted us to discover that wasn't in his post? Just asking for clarification.