An Independent Investigation of 9/11 And The War On Terrorism

[abso]

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860


Read then comment, but before commenting, read all of it.....
http://seanbryson.com/articles/rense_911_wtc_war_terror.html

[jimnyc]

What a load of crap. I'll be nice since you're new though. Thanks for regurgitating the same 'ol lame conspiracies for us. Every few months we need a reminder that there are people so gullible in the world.

BTW - I just happen to have a check in your name from the Nigerian government. Please donate $100 to the site by clicking on the Paypal button at the bottom of the board, and I will get your Nigerian lottery money for you ASAP! :coffee:

[abso]

have you even read the article before posting your reply ?

[jimnyc]

have you even read the article before posting your reply ?

Yes, hence the fact that I wrote "what a load of crap".

[Little-Acorn]

Jimnyc, I think that means he doesn't want the Nigerian money. :thumb:

[revelarts]

I'll read the article later but I do think there needs to be a new investigation. Even the people on the 9-11 commission think there there needs to be one. I've seen enough survivors, family, fire fighters etc to make me wonder EXACTLY what is the gov't hiding this time? I used to give the go'vt the benefit of the doubt but those days are long gone.

[abso]

Yes, hence the fact that I wrote "what a load of crap".

if you think that it is crap, and if you have readen it, then can you tell me some points that you read, and they were untrue ???

can you prove any point to be untrue in the investigation ???

dont judge the investigation from its result, just because you dont like the result doesnt mean that the investigation is a load of crap.

read the evidence, read the points, when you prove that one point is not true, then you are welcome to say so, and please let me know, because i havent read the full investigation yet because of my exams, i will read all of it next week when i finish, until then, if you can verify that one fact is untrue, please tell me.

this is an investigation open for us to verify, if anyone would like to verify any fact in it, then go ahead, when you find something wrong, post here so that eveyrone can know that.

i was not responsible for the making of this investigation, i will verify its facts as much as you will if you read it, i just posted it here, so everyone can read it and tell me their opinions on it, all its facts happened in USA, so the ones who can really verify it, is you people, not me.


but about some of the points mentioned in the starting of the investigation, the writer was just introducing the israelian history, before mentioning the facts from 9/11, that i what i read so far, and some of the facts are:

1- The King David Hotel bombing.
2- Deir Yassin massacre
3- USS Liberty massacre
4- Zionist terror group Irgun
5- The Lavon Affair

6- Admiral Thomas Moorer Said:
"I've never seen a President -- I don't care who he is -- stand up to them. It just boggles the mind. They always get what they want. The Israelis know what is going on all the time. I got to the point where I wasn't writing anything down. If the American people understood what a grip these people have got on our government, they would rise up in arms. Our citizens certainly don't have any idea what goes on."
Thomas H. Moorer, during an interview on 24 August, 1983

7-William Fulbright - US Senator and Chairman of the US Foreign Relations committee - said this before a national television audience: "Israel controls the United States Senate. We should be more concerned about the United States' interests."

8- Dancing Israelis on 9/11

9- Assasination Prime Minister Rabin by Zionist fanatic named Yigal Amir to prevent israel from having peace with arabs

10- Sabra and Shattila Massacre



i will just comment on one of the points, the rest is in front of you, google them if you want to read about them:

The Lavon Affair:
The Lavon Affair refers to the scandal and several terror attack over a failed Israeli covert operation in Egypt known as Operation Susannah, in which Israeli military intelligence planted bombs in Egyptian, American and British-owned targets in Egypt in the summer of 1954 in the hopes that "the Muslim Brotherhood, the Communists, 'unspecified malcontents' or 'local nationalists'" would be blamed. It became known as the Lavon Affair after the Israeli defense minister Pinhas Lavon, who was forced to resign because of the incident, or euphemistically as the Unfortunate Affair.

so in short: they tried to kill americans and english people and then blame their death on egyptians, so that the American-Egyptian relations can be reduced or even to start a war between USA and Egypt.
---------------------------------------------------------

if anyone can verify that one of this ten facts is untrue, then go ahead and tell me if you do, but if you cant, then go back to the investigation, find more facts and try to verify them, you may be able to prove them untrue, good luck....

about the 9/11 facts, i am leaving them for you to verify, it happened in USA, so you should know the details more than me, and you should be able to easily verify what the writer said about 9/11 facts, all i know is just a little information from the press, but you have 9/11 survivors, you have police reports, you have everything you will need to verify any fact, which i dont.

[abso]

About USS Liberty, as they killed 34 crew members and wounded 170 crew members.


Dean Rusk, U.S. Secretary of State at the time of the incident, wrote:
I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. Their sustained attack to disable and sink Liberty precluded an assault by accident or some trigger-happy local commander. Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

[jimnyc]

if you think that it is crap, and if you have readen it, then can you tell me some points that you read, and they were untrue ???

can you prove any point to be untrue in the investigation ???

dont judge the investigation from its result, just because you dont like the result doesnt mean that the investigation is a load of crap.

read the evidence, read the points, when you prove that one point is not true, then you are welcome to say so, and please let me know, because i havent read the full investigation yet because of my exams, i will read all of it next week when i finish, until then, if you can verify that one fact is untrue, please tell me.

this is an investigation open for us to verify, if anyone would like to verify any fact in it, then go ahead, when you find something wrong, post here so that eveyrone can know that.

i was not responsible for the making of this investigation, i will verify its facts as much as you will if you read it, i just posted it here, so everyone can read it and tell me their opinions on it, all its facts happened in USA, so the ones who can really verify it, is you people, not me.

I simply believe it's a load of crap. It's not for me to prove everything wrong that is posted, it's up to you to prove what you post is correct.

I will say this much about the website's article though - why do you think "anonymous" only posts a link to Google for the majority of his references, and many of them are not coming back the way "anonymous" proclaims. Why not just link directly to the proof, or come up with a more verifiable way to credit the claims? "anonymous" wants is to run around in circles verifying his/her own article. It would be much more credible if the proof was just posted right there for verification.

[HogTrash]

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860
There are numerous examples where the same thing can be said about a lie.

You will most certainly find this out as you grow older and more experienced.

[abso]

I simply believe it's a load of crap. It's not for me to prove everything wrong that is posted, it's up to you to prove what you post is correct.

I will say this much about the website's article though - why do you think "anonymous" only posts a link to Google for the majority of his references, and many of them are not coming back the way "anonymous" proclaims. Why not just link directly to the proof, or come up with a more verifiable way to credit the claims? "anonymous" wants is to run around in circles verifying his/her own article. It would be much more credible if the proof was just posted right there for verification.

what kind of proof do you need, there is alot of info in the article, i havent read most of them, but about what i read till now, its all true, if you can find something not true, then tell me.

what proof did your government present to you that Osama Bin Laden was behind what happened in 9/11 ???

so if you dont think that i can convince you that zionests had something to do with 9/11, then can you convince me that Osama Bin Laden did it ??

then can you convince me that some cave men in afghanistan was capable of planning the most sucessfull terriorist attack in the human history ???

since its a debate, if i cant convince you, then you should present counter evidence to convince me with your point of view, i have open mind, i can read anything you give to me, so go ahead and give me some evidence that Osama was behind it.

[abso]

anyway, lets postpone this discussion, after one week, i will read the full article, then if i found some interesting points in it, i will post them here, so that you can tell me if i can believe them or not, i am not here to argue with you people, i am here to debate, or in this exact article, to get help from you to make me understand it, you should know about it more than me, cuz it happened in your country, you certainly read alot more about it than me, so please when i post a point, reply with your opinion about it, but there is not need to talk about who wrote it, or my experience or my age, we should only discuss about the points and the facts, is it true or not.

see you next week....

[NightTrain]

We are waiting impatiently, Achmed. Tell me you're not going to post Al-Jazeera articles...?

[abso]

We are waiting impatiently, Achmed. Tell me you're not going to post Al-Jazeera articles...?

if you check all my posts, i never post anything from arabic sources, i never post arabic articles.

i just post articles written by american people, so if you dont believe it, i would just tell you that it was written by a fellow american, that would be alot easier for you to debate about, and think about, but if i post arabic news, i will just get attacks and insults more than i already get.

[Insein]

what kind of proof do you need, there is alot of info in the article, i havent read most of them, but about what i read till now, its all true, if you can find something not true, then tell me.

what proof did your government present to you that Osama Bin Laden was behind what happened in 9/11 ???

so if you dont think that i can convince you that zionests had something to do with 9/11, then can you convince me that Osama Bin Laden did it ??

then can you convince me that some cave men in afghanistan was capable of planning the most sucessfull terriorist attack in the human history ???

since its a debate, if i cant convince you, then you should present counter evidence to convince me with your point of view, i have open mind, i can read anything you give to me, so go ahead and give me some evidence that Osama was behind it.

I'm not going to dive into it all again but for the proof that Osama did it, he said he did it. He took credit for it. So unless its a massive conspiracy involving him as well, then I think thats proof enough.

[abso]

I'm not going to dive into it all again but for the proof that Osama did it, he said he did it. He took credit for it. So unless its a massive conspiracy involving him as well, then I think thats proof enough.


have you seen Osama bin laden saying it in a conference infront of people ???

all we have seen is a video tape, which maybe true and maybe not, you americans with all your technology should know better than believe in any video, video editing is very easy nowdays as we all know.

[abso]

Lets start discussing the facts in the investigation, some facts might be not related to 9/11, but i will discuss them as well, to ensure that the writer never lied, and never stated any false facts even if they are unrelated to 9/11.

Point 21:

21 (http://seanbryson.com/articles/rense_911_wtc_war_terror.html#s21) As was the case in WW I, US entry the war meant another defeat of Germany. Hours before committing suicide on April 30, 1945, Adolf Hitler dictated his last will and political testament. In it he placed responsibility for WW II on the Zionist Mafia - or, as he called it - "International Jewry and its henchmen". It's no surprise that Hitler would make such a claim. However, his final accusation of the Zionists does parallel the statements made by Jabotinsky, Lindbergh, Beaverbrook, Joe Kennedy, and many others. In the final writing of his life, Hitler wrote: "It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939. It was wanted and provoked solely by international statesmen either of Jewish Origin or working for Jewish interests... Nor had I ever wished that after the appalling first World War, there would ever be a second against either England or America."

The writer's Source:
Day of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor
written by Robert Stinnett (http://www.debatepolicy.com/wiki/Robert_Stinnett)

Additional Source from Me:
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/documents/poltest.htm


So everyone now say, was this point a lie, or did it have a credible source, and lets not discuss WWII, i dont care if the jews had something to do with it as the point say, its not our subject, but our subject is about the sources provided by the writer and me, did he provide a source, or did he just invent a lie ?

please none talks about the whole investigation, focus on the point and its source, we will discuss more and more points, and we will get to the 9/11 related points, but lets now verify the starting points.

[Gaffer]

He provided a source that was a lie.

[abso]

its always a lie with you :D

what about my sources:

Political Testament of Adolf Hitler (1961)
http://www.archive.org/download/PoliticalTestamentOfAdolfHitler/PTAH.pdf

http://www.auschwitz.dk/Will.htm

http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/htestmnt.htm

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450429a.html

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/My_Political_Testament

[abso]

He provided a source that was a lie.


its always a lie with you :D

About his source:

Robert Stinnett

Robert B. Stinnett is a former an American sailor who earned ten battle stars and a Presidential Unit Citation. He is the author of Day of Deceit, regarding U.S. government advance knowledge of the World War II Pearl Harbor attack.

Biography
He participated in World War II as a Naval photographer in the Pacific theater, serving in the same aerial photo group as George H. W. Bush. In 1982 he read the book At Dawn We Slept which contained allegations that challenged the official line about Pearl Harbor. He went to Pearl Harbor to investigate and write a news story. After more than 10 years of further research, and a lot of requests to the United States Navy under the FOIA, in 1995 he uncovered a 1940 memo discussing a plan to entice Japan 'to commit an overt act of war' against US, to crystallise public support for joining World War II. His claim that this plan was adopted personally by Franklin D. Roosevelt, and that the truth was kept from Navy commanders in Hawaii, has naturally proved inflammatory.
He is currently a research fellow at the Independent Institute in Oakland, California.
Previously, in 1982, Stinnett was working as a sports photographer for the Oakland Tribune newspaper. With 4 seconds left in the Big Game (football game) between Cal and Stanford, Stinnett stationed himself behind the South End Zone in California Memorial Stadium, at Berkeley. As it happened, Kevin Moen and teammates Dwight Garner, Richard Rodgers, and Mariet Ford pulled off "The Play", in which Moen fielded the Stanford kickoff, lateraled the ball, and five laterals later, received the final lateral, which he ran into the end zone through the Stanford Band. Stinnett was in perfect position for a famous photographic shot wherein Moen is on the zenith point of his leap, roaring in triumph, the football held high over his helmet, and about to land on Stanford trombone player Gary Tyrell. While Stinnett's work on the Pearl Harbor issue is of greater historical significance, the Big Game photograph of Moen and Tyrell of 11-20-82 is also of some historical import, particularly as it marked the final play in a century of University of California football.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Stinnett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Stinnett)

The writer's source is the book:
Day of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor


Have you even read the book to decide that its a lie ???, you are not a debater, you are just a person who is controlled by his emotions, not his ability to think.



about my sources:

Political Testament of Adolf Hitler (1961)
http://www.archive.org/download/PoliticalTestamentOfAdolfHitler/PTAH.pdf (http://www.archive.org/download/PoliticalTestamentOfAdolfHitler/PTAH.pdf)

http://www.auschwitz.dk/Will.htm (http://www.auschwitz.dk/Will.htm)

http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/htestmnt.htm (http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/htestmnt.htm)

http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450429a.html (http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450429a.html)

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/My_Political_Testament (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/My_Political_Testament)

[Insein]

have you seen Osama bin laden saying it in a conference infront of people ???

all we have seen is a video tape, which maybe true and maybe not, you americans with all your technology should know better than believe in any video, video editing is very easy nowdays as we all know.

This is where conspiracy theories breakdown. Does Osama live in a vacuum then? Can he not respond to say, "Hey it wasn't me!" With the media around the world having different agendas, would someone not have found that and pushed it? Or is it so big a conspiracy that everyone except the select few who are smart enough to have it all figured out, are in on it?

[abso]

This is where conspiracy theories breakdown. Does Osama live in a vacuum then? Can he not respond to say, "Hey it wasn't me!" With the media around the world having different agendas, would someone not have found that and pushed it? Or is it so big a conspiracy that everyone except the select few who are smart enough to have it all figured out, are in on it?


I havent figured it out, i am just saying, that we cant trust the video, we should read the facts then decide ourselfs, but just a video is a lame evience and you know that.

as far as i know, Osama could be dead right now, we will never know if he is really alive or not....

and please reply with your opinion about the point 21 of the investigation, which i posted here, is it a lie ?

[jimnyc]

I havent figured it out, i am just saying, that we cant trust the video, we should read the facts then decide ourselfs, but just a video is a lame evience and you know that.

as far as i know, Osama could be dead right now, we will never know if he is really alive or not....

and please reply with your opinion about the point 21 of the investigation, which i posted here, is it a lie ?

We can't trust an admission via video and further mention of the act throughout the years from OBL and his cohorts, but we should take a supposed dictation as fact?

I don't care about all your zionist jew crap, but I know who attacked us on 9/11 and you'll need absolute evidence to prove what we "know" happened to be false. Read through this forum and you'll see the discussion has taken place a billion times and we always see nothing but conspiracy theories and op-ed columns - and zilch for proof.

[abso]

We can't trust an admission via video and further mention of the act throughout the years from OBL and his cohorts, but we should take a supposed dictation as fact?

I don't care about all your zionist jew crap, but I know who attacked us on 9/11 and you'll need absolute evidence to prove what we "know" happened to be false. Read through this forum and you'll see the discussion has taken place a billion times and we always see nothing but conspiracy theories and op-ed columns - and zilch for proof.


Have you read the investigation ?

[abso]

This is where conspiracy theories breakdown. Does Osama live in a vacuum then? Can he not respond to say, "Hey it wasn't me!" With the media around the world having different agendas, would someone not have found that and pushed it? Or is it so big a conspiracy that everyone except the select few who are smart enough to have it all figured out, are in on it?

Have you read the investigation ?

[jimnyc]

Have you read the investigation ?

Yep

[abso]

Yep

Then, discuss it in points, not as a whole, find a point that you dont like, and post it in a reply, so that we can dabate about it, i am waiting for your point.

its better to skip the starting points, about the israel state, we already have alot to discuss about israel, so find a point about 9/11, 9/11 points starts at Point number 48, so find a point that you think that its wrong...

[chloe]

Then, discuss it in points, not as a whole, find a point that you dont like, and post it in a reply, so that we can dabate about it, i am waiting for your point.

its better to skip the starting points, about the israel state, we already have alot to discuss about israel, so find a point about 9/11, 9/11 points starts at Point number 48, so find a point that you think that its wrong...

Your kinda bossy abso:laugh2:. Anyways isn't the jist of it that you think Jews tricked americans into thinking the arabs did 9/11 and so this article exposes it? I noticed the website has a lot of nazi crap too.:coffee:

[abso]

Your kinda bossy abso:laugh2:. Anyways isn't the jist of it that you think Jews tricked americans into thinking the arabs did 9/11 and so this article exposes it? I noticed the website has a lot of nazi crap too.:coffee:

i noticed many things that i myself didnt like in the website, but as i said, lets focus on what is written in the investigation, not the pictures around it, that is not relative to what we are talking about, i could have copied the while investigation and posted it somewhere else, then post the link here, so would that make any difference to the information mentioned in the investigation !!!

if there is a lie in it, being mentioned in a hate site wont make it a truth, and if there is a fact in it, being mentioned in a hate site wont make it a lie, am i right or wrong ?

[chloe]

i noticed many things that i myself didnt like in the website, but as i said, lets focus on what is written in the investigation, not the pictures around it, that is not relative to what we are talking about, i could have copied the while investigation and posted it somewhere else, then post the link here, so would that make any difference to the information mentioned in the investigation !!!

if there is a lie in it, being mentioned in a hate site wont make it a truth, and if there is a fact in it, being mentioned in a hate site wont make it a lie, am i right or wrong ?

:laugh2: have mercy on me abs......don't make this an Imam zen riddle...:cool:

[abso]

:laugh2: have mercy on me abs......don't make this an Imam zen riddle...:cool:

its not a riddle at all, all i am just saying, that whats printed on the cover of a book, does not matter, if the paper are of good quality or not, it does not change the information mentioned within the book.

so what i care about, is the information written, not the cover and not the writer, and not the pictures, lets just discuss the points and see if there is facts or lies in them, is it that hard !!!!

just read the points, if you find a lie, then post it here and say that its a lie, its not hard at all :D

[chloe]

its not a riddle at all, all i am just saying, that whats printed on the cover of a book, does not matter, if the paper are of good quality or not, it does not change the information mentioned within the book.

so what i care about, is the information written, not the cover and not the writer, and not the pictures, lets just discuss the points and see if there is facts or lies in them, is it that hard !!!!


well I haven't seen any facts? Isn't it more a theory?

[abso]

well I haven't seen any facts? Isn't it more a theory?


read from point 48 to point 177, and also read the closing argument and the closing statement.

when you find something that you suspect to be untrue, then post it here for discussion....

while i was debating with some people, one of them said this sentence which i liked:

"Someone who refuses to read sources but makes determinations about them without reading is at the very least a fool. Someone who defends an issue without even understanding key elements of the position being defended is arrogantly foolish. So much so that any attempt to enlighten is a wasted effort."

all i ask for, is for you to read, and find a lie, its not that hard, since you dont believe the whole investigation, then you should be able to find alot of lies in it, just post the first lie you find starting from point 48.

Note: i have never said that the investigation is all true, i havent even read it fully myself, but since you americans have alot more knowledge about 9/11 more than me, so by reading the investigation you will be able to find lies alot easier than me, instead of me reading it and just believing everything in it without being able to be really sure, i have posted it here so that you read it and tell me about any lie you can find, so i make no claims that its all true.

[Gaffer]

i noticed many things that i myself didnt like in the website, but as i said, lets focus on what is written in the investigation, not the pictures around it, that is not relative to what we are talking about, i could have copied the while investigation and posted it somewhere else, then post the link here, so would that make any difference to the information mentioned in the investigation !!!

if there is a lie in it, being mentioned in a hate site wont make it a truth, and if there is a fact in it, being mentioned in a hate site wont make it a lie, am i right or wrong ?

The whole thing is a lie. Picking it apart to search for a truth is a fruitless waste of time. It was posted on a nazi site for a reason. They want to blame Jews. Taking a small true and creating a big lie around it just makes it all a big lie.

[abso]

The whole thing is a lie. Picking it apart to search for a truth is a fruitless waste of time. It was posted on a nazi site for a reason. They want to blame Jews. Taking a small true and creating a big lie around it just makes it all a big lie.


its posted on more than one site, it just happened that i found it there first, then i found it somewhere else, but not formatted, so it would be harder to read, thats all.

if you think that there is a little truth in there and a big lie, then find the lie and post it here, prove your point of view by finding a lie in the investigation.

again, stop making predetermined judgements, go and read, then find a lie, or stop posting in this article if you are not ready to read or discuss.

[Gaffer]

its posted on more than one site, it just happened that i found it there first, then i found it somewhere else, but not formatted, so it would be harder to read, thats all.

if you think that there is a little truth in there and a big lie, then find the lie and post it here, prove your point of view by finding a lie in the investigation.

again, stop making predetermined judgements, go and read, then find a lie, or stop posting in this article if you are not ready to read or discuss.

It's a matter of finding a truth, not finding a lie. The whole thing is lies and speculation. I've said my piece so I'll get out of the thread. CYA

[abso]

It's a matter of finding a truth, not finding a lie. The whole thing is lies and speculation. I've said my piece so I'll get out of the thread. CYA

okay, good luck, :salute: