Is Tea Party really about freedom & constition? [Archive] - Debate Policy

revelarts

06-14-2010, 04:10 PM

Is the Tea party Really about the constitution and the bill of rights. It was begun by the Ron Paul folks but now they are treated like party crashers.

here's an Obama and Palin protester being ushered to a "free speech" zone at a TEA PARTY FREEDOM RALLY!???!!!

<<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/smc_UMb268Q&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/smc_UMb268Q&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

I know there are a lot of freedom loving people in the tea parties but whats going on at here?

DragonStryk72

06-14-2010, 04:14 PM

You mean the same "free speech" zones that Obama himself uses?

revelarts

06-14-2010, 04:16 PM

yes that's exactly what i mean.

Or is it OK it when the right does it?
And only wrong when the left does it?

RIGHT gov't Boot on your neck or LEFT gov't Boot what hecks the difference Dragon?

chloe

06-14-2010, 04:17 PM

I don't understand your point Rev, the tea party had an event, the protestors were anti palin and anti obama and the event had a free speech zone where they could do there protest. If there was an anti palin event and the event had a free speech zone I guess more people would be in it instead of the lowly two people who showed up to crash the tea party event. They guy was just trying to be smug about it but there was a place set up for him.

DragonStryk72

06-14-2010, 04:22 PM

yes that's exactly what i mean.

Well, it is somewhat hypocritical, but then, people don't always stop at the point of making a simple point, and the Tea Party, if you remember, got that bum rap of racism (talked about how racist the tea partiers were while shooting a huy who was armed. Never showed his face or hands, and turns out later, guy was black. That's not even isolated incident. tea Party members are getting physically attacked at peaceful protests, so likely they've gotten a bit cagey from it.

It's sad, but if the other side can't act responsibly, then the fact is that's what's going to happen. I don't see this person jumping up to defend partiers who were attacked though, just complaining because he was treated the same way that conservatives get treated at liberal events.

There shouldn't be any "free speech zones" anywhere in the USA, because the entire country is supposed to be a free speech zone.

SassyLady

06-14-2010, 04:29 PM

This guy's rant is typical of why he was escorted out ... they were calling the escort a facist. To me it seemed they were trying to instigate an incident. Freedom of speech means they can coordinate their own event and invite whoever they want. If you crash a party and don't follow the etiquette rules set by the host/hostess, I'm sure they will ask you to leave their home. It looked to me like the Tea Party people had an event scheduled and hired event staff to make sure the rules were followed ... their signs didn't fit the guidelines ... and they were just asked to leave the main event area because their signs were offensive .... I see no problem with that.

Binky

06-14-2010, 04:37 PM

[QUOTE=revelarts;430020]Is the Tea party Really about the constitution and the bill of rights. It was begun by the Ron Paul folks but now they are treated like party crashers.

here's an Obama and Palin protester being ushered to a "free speech" zone at a TEA PARTY FREEDOM RALLY!???!!!

[YOUTUBE]<<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/smc_UMb268Q&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/smc_UMb268Q&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YO

I know there are a lot of freedom loving people in the tea parties but whats going on at here?[/QUOTE

If they gave them an area to rant what's the big deal? He still got to protest and exercise his free speech rights....

revelarts

06-14-2010, 04:46 PM

Well, it is somewhat hypocritical,

Agreed.

...but then, people don't always stop at the point of making a simple point, and the Tea Party, if you remember, got that bum rap of racism (talked about how racist the tea partiers were while shooting a huy who was armed. Never showed his face or hands, and turns out later, guy was black. That's not even isolated incident. tea Party members are getting physically attacked at peaceful protests, so likely they've gotten a bit cagey from it.
Tea party has gotten a bum rape on the racism and gun issues. Seems to me if the tea party is willing to stand by guys who come in and open carry a gun then they can stand a few people with "offensive" (anti Palin) signs.
There has been some violence against tea party folks as well but this guy seemed pretty peaceful. ANd we don't throw people out for POTENTIALLY causing a problem.

It's sad, but if the other side can't act responsibly, then the fact is that's what's going to happen. I don't see this person jumping up to defend partiers who were attacked though, just complaining because he was treated the same way that conservatives get treated at liberal events.
I don't think that guys an Obama supporter , And I'm not sure why he should be defending Attacked Tea Party people as he's getting escorted out DS.

There shouldn't be any "free speech zones" anywhere in the USA, because the entire country is supposed to be a free speech zone.

Absolutely!
ANd the Tea Parties ought to be an Example of how it's done. Just like they encourage or Allow open carry at the events. Free speech should be shown to be Promoted as well. PRO and CON that's what it's all about.

revelarts

06-14-2010, 04:50 PM

I don't understand your point Rev, the tea party had an event, the protestors were anti palin and anti obama and the event had a free speech zone where they could do there protest. If there was an anti palin event and the event had a free speech zone I guess more people would be in it instead of the lowly two people who showed up to crash the tea party event. They guy was just trying to be smug about it but there was a place set up for him.

Is the Tea party Really about the constitution and the bill of rights. It was begun by the Ron Paul folks but now they are treated like party crashers.

If they gave them an area to rant what's the big deal? He still got to protest and exercise his free speech rights....

Dragon answers the question.

...There shouldn't be any "free speech zones" anywhere in the USA, because the entire country is supposed to be a free speech zone.

that's it.

revelarts

06-14-2010, 05:05 PM

revelarts

06-14-2010, 05:15 PM

Pastor arrested at Liberty Bell on the public side walk for not being in the "Free Speech Zone".

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/x3CysSx0vm4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/x3CysSx0vm4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

sybarite

06-14-2010, 07:28 PM

It was clear that there was a speaker on the microphone in the backround that was scheduled to speak. When you have over a thousand people trying to listen to a guest speaker you can not have every Tom, Dick, and Harry shouting out whatever they want, even if you agree with them. Events like this have to be done in an orderly fashion or your going to have chaos. A place where he could go to "speak freely" probably was far enough away from the guest speaker so he would not disturb the people trying to listen to the guest speaker, and whoever wanted to listen to the Tea Partier's opinions could do so, as not to compete with the guest speaker. The Tea Parties I have attended did not have "rude" people shouting out opinions when someone at the podium was trying to speak.

revelarts

06-14-2010, 08:53 PM

It was clear that there was a speaker on the microphone in the backround that was scheduled to speak. When you have over a thousand people trying to listen to a guest speaker you can not have every Tom, Dick, and Harry shouting out whatever they want, even if you agree with them. Events like this have to be done in an orderly fashion or your going to have chaos. A place where he could go to "speak freely" probably was far enough away from the guest speaker so he would not disturb the people trying to listen to the guest speaker, and whoever wanted to listen to the Tea Partier's opinions could do so, as not to compete with the guest speaker. The Tea Parties I have attended did not have "rude" people shouting out opinions when someone at the podium was trying to speak.

I get the impression that he was only holding up a sign though not interrupting the speaker.

sybarite

06-14-2010, 09:18 PM

I get the impression that he was only holding up a sign though not interrupting the speaker.

At our tea parties almost everyone there has a protest sign so that didn't sound right to me so I did a little investigating. I went to the site on the bottom of the video, http://www.wearechange.org/?p=1806. On this video, we saw nothing prior to this man being escorted out so we have no idea what he did or said. If you click on this site and see other their other protests, they are anything but quiet and cause quite a disturbance.

revelarts

06-14-2010, 09:45 PM

At our tea parties almost everyone there has a protest sign so that didn't sound right to me so I did a little investigating. I went to the site on the bottom of the video, http://www.wearechange.org/?p=1806. On this video, we saw nothing prior to this man being escorted out so we have no idea what he did or said. If you click on this site and see other their other protests, they are anything but quiet and cause quite a disturbance.

Sometimes they are loud sometimes not. the guy in the vid I posted had no bullhorn that I could see. and says he's only holding up a sign.

Mr. P

06-14-2010, 10:13 PM

Sometimes they are loud sometimes not. the guy in the vid I posted had no bullhorn that I could see. and says he's only holding up a sign.

Does one need a bullhorn to be disruptive these days?

DragonStryk72

06-15-2010, 12:48 AM

Does one need a bullhorn to be disruptive these days?

Where does that stop, though? I mean, Obama would kick to the curb anybody disruptive, especially tea partiers that might actually ask him hard questions. Is that really the American ideal that we fight and die for?

The Tea Party should be welcoming in the protesters. We may not be able to change their positions, but we can at least stop giving them something to talk about.

Mr. P

06-15-2010, 01:13 AM

Where does that stop, though? I mean, Obama would kick to the curb anybody disruptive, especially tea partiers that might actually ask him hard questions. Is that really the American ideal that we fight and die for?

The Tea Party should be welcoming in the protesters. We may not be able to change their positions, but we can at least stop giving them something to talk about.

Would you invite termites into yer house?

Kathianne

06-15-2010, 05:03 AM

Once again, the Tea Parties vary from group to group, trying to bunch them into a pocket is not going to work.

Point 1 from the op, Ron Paul did NOT have anything to do with 'founding' the tea parties. One might reference the 'grass roots' of his Presidential campaign, though his 'grass roots' followers have little in common with the Tea Parties of today. Actually the top hits I found while searching for some info on this were from leftist sites.

I have a lot of faith in the folks that early on got involved in the Tea Parties, now however both the extremes are trying to co-opt, this type of ploy being but one example. Without more leadership than currently out there, I don't think that Tea Party is going to go '3rd Party', however I don't think that the message is lost on those that really are for reducing spending, attempting to get candidates that aren't corrupt, targeting those that are-of both parties, getting rid of federal government intrusion in all aspects of our lives and in areas such as education, where they don't belong. These are not racist, xenophobic 'grass roots', they really are looking for relief for themselves and the masses, not a more 'pure' America in the sense that many of the Ron Paul folks did.

revelarts

06-15-2010, 09:58 AM

the tea parties were started as Ron Paul fund raisers. I was one of the early supporters. I followed him fairly closely before he declared his run, hoping that he would, I'm telling you. I heard the 1st announcements about the Tea Parties and have watched the transformation.

"ARLINGTON, Va.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--As activists across the country hold national tea parties, Campaign for Liberty president John Tate issued the following statement:

“The concept of the modern day Tea Party began on December 16, 2007 when supporters of Ron Paul’s presidential campaign came together and raised over $6 million online in one day. The tremendous success of that event lead activists in the freedom movement and members of the Campaign for Liberty to begin planning today’s Tax Day Tea Parties.

“Success always brings company, and it is very positive that so many conservatives, libertarians, Republicans, constitutionalists and even progressives have come together and joined our efforts. All Americans who are sincere about cutting out of control government spending are welcome to stand with Dr. Paul and the Campaign for Liberty as we fight to take our country back.”

Congressman Ron Paul is the honorary chairman of Campaign for Liberty. For more information, visit www.campaignforliberty.com. "

When the health care debate was going on and the people were standing up in the town hall meetings speaking, interjecting, Shouting from time to time. Holding up controversial signs. Should they have been removed to "free speech zones" two blocks away? Hell NO.

Just because some people feel uncomfortable or it's not polite doesn't mean inANYWAY it should be shutdown. the Gov't has no right and In a forum like th "FREEDOM" movement Tea Party rally it certainly shouldn't be the case.

I've been to large Pro-Life rallies and always there are some Pro-abortion people there. Usually they are seriously frown upon. and I've seen a few of my fellow "Christians" knock down one woman's sign once. (And a reporter was there to get the whole devastating "attack") but I've never seen them forcible removed.
Marches, political rallies or gathering are going to attract people that want to express themselves pro and con that how we're suppose to do it here. freedom anit always pretty. and someone yelling or talking loud isn't a riot.

But in this particular case until someone can show me this guy being disruptive in ANYWAY I'm assuming he was just holding up a sign like he said.

SpidermanTUba

06-15-2010, 11:35 AM

Most teabaggers haven't even read the Constitution.

HogTrash

06-15-2010, 01:59 PM

I heard the words "neocons" and "fascist"...These are two of the favorite words of liberal activist.

I'm positive these were Tea Party crashers who were there for no other reason than to disrupt the event.

I expect to see alot more of this as Tea Party popularity grows and we approach mid-term elections in the fall.

Mr. P

06-15-2010, 02:06 PM

I heard the words "neocons" and "fascist"...These are two of the favorite words of liberal activist.

I'm positive these were Tea Party crashers who were there for no other reason than to disrupt the event.

I expect to see alot more of this as Tea Party popularity grows and we approach mid-term elections in the fall.

What he said.

sybarite

06-15-2010, 02:49 PM

I heard the words "neocons" and "fascist"...These are two of the favorite words of liberal activist.

I'm positive these were Tea Party crashers who were there for no other reason than to disrupt the event.

I expect to see alot more of this as Tea Party popularity grows and we approach mid-term elections in the fall.

I notice that more and more liberal plants are attending just to disrupt the events.

DragonStryk72

06-15-2010, 03:02 PM

Would you invite termites into yer house?

not the same thing at all, it's a false analogy. Would I invite people with different opinions than mine, who I would likely spend my whole life railing against just as strongly as they rail against me into my house? Certainly, because there is no reason not to be civil about these things. I can be the bigger person.

DragonStryk72

06-15-2010, 03:04 PM

Most teabaggers haven't even read the Constitution.

Alright, what's the Second Amendment? No looking it up now, just go ahead and do it from memory. No? Okay, how the 4th 5th or 6th Amendments? What about the 16th amendment?

Please stop jumping up to display your ignorance. Also, please show me your poll numbers of Tea Party members that you've interviewed on the subject to verify your claims.

Mr. P

06-15-2010, 04:12 PM

not the same thing at all, it's a false analogy. Would I invite people with different opinions than mine, who I would likely spend my whole life railing against just as strongly as they rail against me into my house? Certainly, because there is no reason not to be civil about these things. I can be the bigger person.

It is the same. BOTH will destroy. In one case yer house in the other the organization (Tea Party). Will you be a bigger person to the detriment of your home with the termites or the destruction of your organization by allowing disruption?

revelarts

06-15-2010, 04:25 PM

I heard the words "neocons" and "fascist"...These are two of the favorite words of liberal activist.

I'm positive these were Tea Party crashers who were there for no other reason than to disrupt the event.

I expect to see alot more of this as Tea Party popularity grows and we approach mid-term elections in the fall.

OK here we go,
Neo-cons. HT are you a fan of the Neo-cons? Are you a fan of Dick Chenny, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz or even Palin? I am not. if anyone knows anything about RonPaul republicans we do like the Neo-cons. we think they are war mongers, Wall st prostitutes, big gov't pushing control freaks. They promise the constitution and deliver illegal detentions and wire tapping all citizens. They promise small gov't and deliver the biggest gov't until Obama and fat go'vt contracts to their friends.

And Fascist well "Free Speech Zones" was fascist when the dems did it. Good for the goose.

But I do agree there will be infiltrators from the left that need to exposed but i doubt this guys one of them. Why is it so hard to take some constructive criticism for the Tea Parties.
free speech zones are WRONG!
and each Tea Party should know it and everyone here on the right should know it too. I find it hard believe i have to defend this the point here.

revelarts

06-15-2010, 04:37 PM

Ill add that the Neo libs are exactly the same as the Neo Cons, except they are free and open about big go'vt and control freakiness. but they try to cloak their warmongering tendencies under humanitarianism. and they openly add a culture of death to the mix with abortion and euthanasia and crazy faux environmentalism.

DragonStryk72

06-15-2010, 04:38 PM

It is the same. BOTH will destroy. In one case yer house in the other the organization (Tea Party). Will you be a bigger person to the detriment of your home with the termites or the destruction of your organization by allowing disruption?

No both will not destroy, unless of course you believe that the Tea Party movement is so incredibly weak that it cannot stand the criticism of the libs. It's that simple, that is what we are saying when we pull this stuff, is that they are strong enough to make us change ourselves. they are not termites, and no matter how many times you try to push that analogy on me, it will still be no closer to truth.

Mr. P

06-15-2010, 04:56 PM

No both will not destroy, unless of course you believe that the Tea Party movement is so incredibly weak that it cannot stand the criticism of the libs. It's that simple, that is what we are saying when we pull this stuff, is that they are strong enough to make us change ourselves. they are not termites, and no matter how many times you try to push that analogy on me, it will still be no closer to truth.

Bring one termite into yer home, and one intending on disruption of a group. Think they'll multiply if ya don't control them? Sure they will.

DragonStryk72

06-15-2010, 04:58 PM

Bring one termite into yer home, and one intending on disruption of a group. Think they'll multiply if ya don't control them? Sure they will.

Okay, so then the answer is yes, you do believe that the Tea Party is that weak.

Mr. P

06-15-2010, 05:01 PM

Okay, so then the answer is yes, you do believe that the Tea Party is that weak.

No..but through uncontrolled infiltration it can be destroyed. Same as yer house from the termites. :poke:

sybarite

06-15-2010, 05:02 PM

OK here we go,
Neo-cons. HT are you a fan of the Neo-cons? Are you a fan of Dick Chenny, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz or even Palin? I am not. if anyone knows anything about RonPaul republicans we do like the Neo-cons. we think they are war mongers, Wall st prostitutes, big gov't pushing control freaks. They promise the constitution and deliver illegal detentions and wire tapping all citizens. They promise small gov't and deliver the biggest gov't until Obama and fat go'vt contracts to their friends.

And Fascist well "Free Speech Zones" was fascist when the dems did it. Good for the goose.

But I do agree there will be infiltrators from the left that need to exposed but i doubt this guys one of them. Why is it so hard to take some constructive criticism for the Tea Parties.
free speech zones are WRONG!
and each Tea Party should know it and everyone here on the right should know it too. I find it hard believe i have to defend this the point here.

I think anyone should be able to attend a tea party no matter what your opinion is. If you show up with a sign that says "Tea Parties Should Be Banned" and start shouting out anti-tea party beliefs, there's going to be trouble, which I'm sure that's what the intention would be.

I believe this tea party took place in California. I have attended many in Wisconsin and I have never heard of a free speech zone. I guess I still don't understand exactly what it is. To verbally speak your mind???

DragonStryk72

06-15-2010, 06:13 PM

No..but through uncontrolled infiltration it can be destroyed. Same as yer house from the termites. :poke:

Right, it's too weak. Got it, it cannot stand on its own merits if people are allowed to talk.

Missileman

06-15-2010, 06:25 PM

Right, it's too weak. Got it, it cannot stand on its own merits if people are allowed to talk.

Maybe we should allow people to have a football game on the field while 2 baseball teams are trying to have their game. If those opposed to the tea parties want to express themselves, let them have their own rally.

revelarts

06-15-2010, 07:06 PM

Maybe we should allow people to have a football game on the field while 2 baseball teams are trying to have their game. If those opposed to the tea parties want to express themselves, let them have their own rally.

Maybe at a Redskins and Cowboys game no one should allowed to wear a Vikings jersey. Or say anything to loud about the Vikings. If Viking fans want to watch a game they should only go to there home stadium. maybe if the Redskins are Playing in Washington No COWBOYS fans should show up at all.

It might cause a disturbance. They should just go have there own game.

Missileman

06-15-2010, 07:22 PM

Maybe at a Redskins and Cowboys game no one should allowed to wear a Vikings jersey. Or say anything to loud about the Vikings. If Viking fans want to watch a game they should only go to there home stadium. maybe if the Redskins are Playing in Washington No COWBOYS fans should show up at all.

It might cause a disturbance. They should just go have there own game.

Maybe it'd be okay if atheists started showing up at churches to heckle the preacher. :poke:

Or maybe we should allow the 6th grade teacher to go into the 1st grade class and shout her 6th grade lesson plans at the top of her lungs while the 1st grade teacher tries to teach her class.

revelarts

06-15-2010, 08:03 PM

Maybe it'd be okay if atheists started showing up at churches to heckle the preacher. :poke:

Or maybe we should allow the 6th grade teacher to go into the 1st grade class and shout her 6th grade lesson plans at the top of her lungs while the 1st grade teacher tries to teach her class.

:)
That would keep the people a awake.
Wake up some preachers too I expect.
But you know every once in a while that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Hey wait a minute.
Maybe there should be a free speech zone for atheist 15 miles away from every church. In my hometown that would make it so atheist would barely have a place to speak. hmmm :poke:

revelarts

06-15-2010, 08:04 PM

:)
That would keep the people a awake.
Wake up some preachers too I expect.
But you know every once in a while that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Hey wait a minute.
Maybe there should be a free speech zone for atheist 15 miles away from every church. In my hometown that would make it so atheist would barely have a place to speak. hmmm :poke:

...

revelarts

06-15-2010, 08:04 PM

,,, double post

Mr. P

06-15-2010, 08:06 PM

Maybe it'd be okay if atheists started showing up at churches to heckle the preacher. :poke:

Or maybe we should allow the 6th grade teacher to go into the 1st grade class and shout her 6th grade lesson plans at the top of her lungs while the 1st grade teacher tries to teach her class.

Can't rep ya I tried. :thumb:

HogTrash

06-15-2010, 08:08 PM

I think anyone should be able to attend a tea party no matter what your opinion is. If you show up with a sign that says "Tea Parties Should Be Banned" and start shouting out anti-tea party beliefs, there's going to be trouble, which I'm sure that's what the intention would be.

I believe this tea party took place in California. I have attended many in Wisconsin and I have never heard of a free speech zone. I guess I still don't understand exactly what it is. To verbally speak your mind???Your idea sounds great on paper, but in reality the liberal left would intentionally disrupt every gathering into a state of chaos with shouting, profanity and violence, for which the left wing media would totally blame the Tea Party.

I suspect this will soon begin anyway and ecscalate because the Tea Party scares the hell out of the progressives who now control the Democrat Party...It is a major threat to their plans.

Little-Acorn

06-15-2010, 08:20 PM

Sometimes the right to Freedom of Speech, directly conflicts with the right to PEACEABLY assemble. Which is why we get "Protest Zones" far from the center of things at rallies, cops keeping conflicting sides apart, etc.

Opposing sides coming together, frequently results in fights or even riots. A known fact, well established throughout history. And one that often violates people's right to speak freely - it's hard to express your point of view when someone is knocking your block off, or trying to.

The maximum freedom of speech is often provided when opposing sides are restricted to separate areas. When you don't restrict that way, you often wind up with less freedom to speak, not more.

Anybody got a better idea? Please name it.

DragonStryk72

06-15-2010, 08:53 PM

Maybe we should allow people to have a football game on the field while 2 baseball teams are trying to have their game. If those opposed to the tea parties want to express themselves, let them have their own rally.

Um, does anyone have something other than bad analogies for me? This isn't a sport, it isn't a game. What you're asking is a football with only the Redskins taking the field, or a baseball game with only the Mets (see, use them properly), because you are denying opposition, aka the other team.

Now, obviously you're another that thinks the Tea Party cannot stand up for itself if these people are allowed to talk, but personally I think it can do so just fine without us killing free speech to do so. If you really believe in the movement, then show it, and let the libs show up. they won't convert any us, but there's always that chance that one of them can be brought to reason.

revelarts

06-15-2010, 08:58 PM

DragonStryk72

06-15-2010, 08:59 PM

Sometimes the right to Freedom of Speech, directly conflicts with the right to PEACEABLY assemble. Which is why we get "Protest Zones" far from the center of things at rallies, cops keeping conflicting sides apart, etc.

Opposing sides coming together, frequently results in fights or even riots. A known fact, well established throughout history. And one that often violates people's right to speak freely - it's hard to express your point of view when someone is knocking your block off, or trying to.

The maximum freedom of speech is often provided when opposing sides are restricted to separate areas. When you don't restrict that way, you often wind up with less freedom to speak, not more.

Anybody got a better idea? Please name it.

I do, actually: keep our shit together, let them in peacefully, and let them be the assholes. I know that takes some damned strong control at times, but if they are going to be disruptive, then let them be disruptive first, before we jump on them. I'd also recommend that we use their own tools against them, videotaping them while they are acting an ass, to protect ourselves from getting shown as being total jackasses.

revelarts

06-15-2010, 09:13 PM

US "riot"
"unlawful assembly"

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5k0Y7_5a5d0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5k0Y7_5a5d0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

revelarts

06-15-2010, 09:18 PM

revelarts

06-15-2010, 09:36 PM

Freedom of speech, freedom of assembly.

If the Tea Party supporters here don't get it.
If the military people here don't see it as something they are defending.
then why do you keep taking about the constitution. You don't mean it. Giving up a little of the constitution here and there, why not the whole thing.

Its made me wonder again if choosing the constitution meant giving up the Republican Party or Tea Party how many Republican faithful would choose the constitution.

it's a sad time for the country folks, if the right doesn't defend the constitution who will?

Missileman

06-15-2010, 09:50 PM

Um, does anyone have something other than bad analogies for me? This isn't a sport, it isn't a game. What you're asking is a football with only the Redskins taking the field, or a baseball game with only the Mets (see, use them properly), because you are denying opposition, aka the other team.

Now, obviously you're another that thinks the Tea Party cannot stand up for itself if these people are allowed to talk, but personally I think it can do so just fine without us killing free speech to do so. If you really believe in the movement, then show it, and let the libs show up. they won't convert any us, but there's always that chance that one of them can be brought to reason.

The Tea Party rallies aren't a competition where the opposing team gets their turn. They are events held for the supporters of the movement. And I didn't say the other side isn't allowed to talk...on the contrary, I suggested that they have their own rally.

Since you don't like sports analogies, take a stab at the church analogy I posted.

Missileman

06-15-2010, 09:56 PM

Freedom of speech, freedom of assembly.

If the Tea Party supporters here don't get it.
If the military people here don't see it as something they are defending.
then why do you keep taking about the constitution. You don't mean it. Giving up a little of the constitution here and there, why not the whole thing.

Its made me wonder again if choosing the constitution meant giving up the Republican Party or Tea Party how many Republican faithful would choose the constitution.

it's a sad time for the country folks, if the right doesn't defend the constitution who will?

You seem to be arguing that freedom of speech includes freedom to trespass. The libs have every right to spout their bullshit, and I will defend their right to spout it. That doesn't mean I have to let them come into my house to force me to listen to it.

What part of "have their own rally" is so unconstitutional?

DragonStryk72

06-15-2010, 10:21 PM

The Tea Party rallies aren't a competition where the opposing team gets their turn. They are events held for the supporters of the movement. And I didn't say the other side isn't allowed to talk...on the contrary, I suggested that they have their own rally.

Since you don't like sports analogies, take a stab at the church analogy I posted.

But you're saying they are not freely allowed to protest the politics of a political rally at that rally, so free speech is not free. It's isn't a matter of an atheist vs. christian mentality, both conservatives and liberals believe they are doing what's best for the country (I think the libs are deluding themselves, but neither here nor there really). Same applies in reverse, we can show up and protest liberal rallies (as is often the case).

There's nothing unconstitutional about an atheist walking into a church to heckle the preacher (I'd actually be surprised if it hasn't happened somewhere along the line). The only proviso spelled out in the constitution refers to someone shouting fire in a crowded theater not being protected by free speech. That's about it. Would that atheist being acting like an ass? Yes. Would it be in horrible taste? Yes. Would it change anyone's mind about Christianity? No, but it might make people see atheists in a worse light. We do not need to abandon our morals and ethics to convince people of what is right.

Mr. P

06-15-2010, 11:38 PM

:bang3: DS, yer a tax payer and you have every right to attend a County board meeting or whatever, right? Now, just go in there to disrupt an see how long ya last. This isn't about Free Speech, DS. Tea Party rallies aren't government sponsored, they can set the rules that control the termites.

What's the problem with that freedom?

revelarts

06-16-2010, 12:16 AM

:bang3: DS, yer a tax payer and you have every right to attend a County board meeting or whatever, right? Now, just go in there to disrupt an see how long ya last. This isn't about Free Speech, DS. Tea Party rallies aren't government sponsored, they can set the rules that control the termites.

What's the problem with that freedom?

Just who is allowed to come to tea party rallies then?
I'm not quite clear?
are there a list of approved signs etc that people can get before hand?
We should all have the appropriate, uniformed tea party approved brand of freedom.

bullypulpit

06-16-2010, 04:06 AM

Your title for the thread was a rhetorical question...Right?

Missileman

06-16-2010, 06:14 AM

But you're saying they are not freely allowed to protest the politics of a political rally at that rally, so free speech is not free. It's isn't a matter of an atheist vs. christian mentality, both conservatives and liberals believe they are doing what's best for the country (I think the libs are deluding themselves, but neither here nor there really). Same applies in reverse, we can show up and protest liberal rallies (as is often the case).

There's nothing unconstitutional about an atheist walking into a church to heckle the preacher (I'd actually be surprised if it hasn't happened somewhere along the line). The only proviso spelled out in the constitution refers to someone shouting fire in a crowded theater not being protected by free speech. That's about it. Would that atheist being acting like an ass? Yes. Would it be in horrible taste? Yes. Would it change anyone's mind about Christianity? No, but it might make people see atheists in a worse light. We do not need to abandon our morals and ethics to convince people of what is right.

No, I'm saying they aren't allowed to disrupt the rally and violate everyone elses' rights in the name of freedom of speech.

sybarite

06-16-2010, 09:41 AM

No, I'm saying they aren't allowed to disrupt the rally and violate everyone elses' rights in the name of freedom of speech.

Exactly! The Human Rights House Network says it best, "The right to peaceful assembly: People have a right to assemble together to promote and protect human rights through peaceful protest or the expression of their views. States have a responsibility to ensure that people are able to demonstrate peacefully and express their views without facing threats, intimidation or violence."

revelarts

06-16-2010, 11:00 AM

DragonStryk72

06-16-2010, 01:53 PM

No, I'm saying they aren't allowed to disrupt the rally and violate everyone elses' rights in the name of freedom of speech.

What rights are they violating? They are not taking away the right to assemble peacefully, not taking away their freedom of speech, privacy, so what right is it?

DragonStryk72

06-16-2010, 01:57 PM

Exactly! The Human Rights House Network says it best, "The right to peaceful assembly: People have a right to assemble together to promote and protect human rights through peaceful protest or the expression of their views. States have a responsibility to ensure that people are able to demonstrate peacefully and express their views without facing threats, intimidation or violence."

and these people are peacefully protesting the protest. Seems simple enough that they have that right as well. If one of them is threatening and intimidating people, then yes they need to be ejected (Though at a Tea Party rally, I do admit to being worried about getting shot in such an instance. Sort of the reason I don't go with bear baiting either), and if they're getting violent, then they need to be stopped, but holding up a sign or wearing a t-shirt is none of those things, otherwise, no one can peacefully assemble.