Passionate attachment to Israel

[abso]

<DT>Passionate attachment to Israel </DT>



by James J. David


Is there any criminal act that Israel can do without being protected from criticism from the United States? If there is I haven't seen it. And I haven't seen it from the Bush Administration or from the Clinton Administration or from any administration before them. But when you consider the influence of Israel's lobby and its political action committees and the more than $41 million they've given to Congress and the White House, is it any wonder Israel is shielded from any shame?


For more than 54 years the Israelis have committed acts that no other nation would dare get away with. But even here in America, where it is not yet illegal to publicly ask the wrong questions, any public figure that does so is subjected to smears, intimidation, and the attempted destruction of his career and reputation by Jewish organizations and by the very cooperative news media.


A few examples of these criminal acts committed by Israel include the treacherous attack on the USS Liberty on June 8, 1967, killing 34 American sailors and wounding another 171. There can now be no disputing that Israel knew its identity, and that the ship was in international waters and clearly marked as a US Naval vessel. What was most treacherous though was not the perfidy of Israel but that of President Johnson ordering the recall of the sixth fleet when he found out that the attackers were not the Arabs but the Israelis. The treasonous compliance continues today as corrupt politicians refuse to take any action against Israel and continue their efforts in hushing-up the whole affair although there seems to be a strong campaign by the Liberty survivors and other brave patriotic Americans in exposing the Israelis of their criminal attack.


Another example of Israel's callous disregard for its supposed "ally" America was the bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon in 1983, which killed over 200 US servicemen. According to former Israeli Mossad agent, Victor Ostrovsky, Israeli intelligence knew of the plan by Arab terrorists to bomb the building in plenty of time to warn the innocent men, but cynically refused to say anything.


In April 1996 the Israelis attacked an U.N. refugee camp in Qana, Lebanon and killed 103 innocent men, women, and especially children. A U.N. investigation determined the attack was intentional and stated that " while the possibility cannot be ruled out completely, the pattern of impacts in the Qana area makes it unlikely that the shelling of the United Nations compound was the result of technical and/or procedural errors." Shortly after this report the U.N. Security Council voted to condemn Israel for the attack and all nations with the exception of the U.S. voted in favor of the resolution. In other words, intentionally slaughtering 103 civilians was not sufficient for the United States to condemn Israel. Yet, when Hezbollah attacks Israel's illegal occupation of southern Lebanon and results in the deaths of two Israeli soldiers the U.S. is first to condemn this legal resistance.


During the past 27 months the Palestinian resistance from the brutal and illegal Israeli occupation has resulted in more than 2000 Palestinians and 670 Israelis killed. When Israelis are killed or injured by Palestinian suicide bombers the White House wastes not a second to harshly condemn these brutal acts, and it does so in an understandable manner. But when Israelis drop a one-ton bomb in the center of a Gaza City apartment complex and kills 15 innocent Palestinians including 9 small children the U.S. issues a diplomatic statement criticizing the attack only as using "excessive force." Other times when Palestinian children are slaughtered for throwing stones at tanks the United States remains silent.


These are just a few of the criminal acts committed by the Israeli government and shielded from criticism by U.S. politicians or even reported by the controlled media.
Although September 11th brought the fight on terrorism to the front burner, it seems that the United States protects Israel from any criticism here too. An Israeli instant-messaging firm Odigo confirmed that two employees received text messages warning of an attack on the World Trade Center two hours before terrorists crashed planes into the New York landmarks. (Ha'aretz, December 20, 2002.) Is it possible that Israel had foreknowledge of the attack? Could this be the answer why the Israeli employees at the World Trade Center never showed up for work that tragic September morning? If this is the case then the fact that Israel's government had prior knowledge of the pending attack and not warned the Americans makes them as guilty as our enemy. Whatever the case, our government must make a complete and thorough investigation without any threats from Jewish and Israeli interest groups.


Shielding Israel from criticism and supporting the Jewish state no matter what crimes she commits has caused the United States the loss of respect around the world. In addition, Israel has cost American taxpayers more than $120 billion in the past 40 years. Our one-sided unbalanced Middle East policy has created the hatred of millions and the primary cause of terrorism that has landed on our own soil.


Criticizing our government's dangerous policies and its submissions to the Jewish lobby doesn't make anyone less patriotic or any less of an American. George Washington said it best when he stated that "passionate attachment to another nation produces a variety of evils...the illusion of common interests where no real common interests exist; adopting the enmities of the other; and participation in the quarrels and wars of the other without any justification. Still another evil is that such a passionate attachment gives to ambitious, corrupted or deluded citizens the facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country."

James J. David is a retired Brigadier General and a graduate of the U.S. Army's Command and General Staff College, and the National Security Course, National Defense University, Washington DC. He served as a Company Commander with the 101st Airborne Division in the Republic of Vietnam in 1969 and 1970 and also served nearly 3 years of Army active duty in and around the Middle East from 1967-1969.


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Now after presenting this article, from a retired US Brigadier General, lets discuss it, who agrees and who disagrees, and why do you agree, and why you dont, there is alot of other articles which discuss this relation, which is described in one sentence:

US commitment to Israel 'rock solid'

My comment on this sentence, is that its right, US is always commited to protect israel, either if it is right or wrong, it does not matter, israel can do anything, whatever they want, because US commitment to them is rock solid no matter what happens.

[Kathianne]

Another fair question: Is there anything that Israel can do that wouldn't result in Islamic nations and their minions in South/Central America not condemning? Seems there is nothing acceptable other than disbanding of the state.

[abso]

Another fair question: Is there anything that Israel can do that wouldn't result in Islamic nations and their minions in South/Central America not condemning? Seems there is nothing acceptable other than disbanding of the state.

they dont have to disband the state, they just have to go back to 1967 borders, which is the internationally recognized borders of israel, but they keep occuyping lands of the palastenian people, and when the palastenian people try to resist, they call that terrorism !!!, if someone occupied USA, wouldnt you fight for your land ?

[chloe]

abso are you a muslim extremist?

[Kathianne]

they dont have to disband the state, they just have to go back to 1967 borders, which is the internationally recognized borders of israel, but they keep occuyping lands of the palastenian people, and when the palastenian people try to resist, they call that terrorism !!!, if someone occupied USA, wouldnt you fight for your land ?

What caused the change in borders in 1967? What proposals from the aggressors are there that such will not occur again?

[abso]

I would like to copy this part of the article:

During the past 27 months the Palestinian resistance from the brutal and illegal Israeli occupation has resulted in more than 2000 Palestinians and 670 Israelis killed. When Israelis are killed or injured by Palestinian suicide bombers the White House wastes not a second to harshly condemn these brutal acts, and it does so in an understandable manner. But when Israelis drop a one-ton bomb in the center of a Gaza City apartment complex and kills 15 innocent Palestinians including 9 small children the U.S. issues a diplomatic statement criticizing the attack only as using "excessive force."

so, when israel uses a one-ton bomb and kills 15 innocent ppl including 9 small children, this is excessive force
but when palestinians fire a rocket towards israil which always lands nowhere and almost never hurt anyone, because this rockets are very weak and unguided, but USA calls this terrorism

thats the issue i am talking about, why the USA is not abiding by the George Washington farewell speech, when he asked the coming generation not to be attached by passionate attachment, but now, they are being too much attached to israel, and as GW said, attachment to another nation produces a variety of evils...the illusion of common interests where no real common interests exist; adopting the enmities of the other, as he said, USA has adopted the enemies of israel, like iran, syria, iraq, all this countries, only has problems with israel, but USA is making this problems with USA instead of israel, in 1973 war, USA acts towarded egypt as an enemy in Nickel Grass operation, where it transfered Tons of military equipments to israil, which means it directly supported our enemy, by that, USA was our enemy in 1973, so, why USA is involving itself, and why is it gaining enemies of other.

Let me use another part of GW speech:
passionate attachment” of many idealistic Americans was to the new revolutionary republic of France, which was at war with England and other European monarchies. Not only did idealistic Americans feel an ideological affinity for a fellow republic involved in a life-or-death struggle with monarchical regimes, but many Americans held that a debt of gratitude was owed to France because of its military support during the American Revolution and that the United States was still obligated to abide by the 1778 alliance with France which did not include an end date. Washington, however, astutely held that in foreign policy the United States should pursue its own interests and not be involved in another country’s conflicts, which could only bring on unnecessary problems.

so although the french helped USA to be freed from the british colonization, GW refused to aid them, because he saw that USA had no interest in this war, and he should not involve america on an unjustified war, that was how GW dealt with france, so france halped USA to be free, but GW was commited to his policy, and now USA helps israel, even though israel never helped USA, so why is that !!!!

[chloe]

I would like to copy this part of the article:

During the past 27 months the Palestinian resistance from the brutal and illegal Israeli occupation has resulted in more than 2000 Palestinians and 670 Israelis killed. When Israelis are killed or injured by Palestinian suicide bombers the White House wastes not a second to harshly condemn these brutal acts, and it does so in an understandable manner. But when Israelis drop a one-ton bomb in the center of a Gaza City apartment complex and kills 15 innocent Palestinians including 9 small children the U.S. issues a diplomatic statement criticizing the attack only as using "excessive force."

so, when israel uses a one-ton bomb and kills 15 innocent ppl including 9 small children, this is excessive force
but when palestinians fire a rocket towards israil which always lands nowhere and almost never hurt anyone, because this rockets are very weak and unguided, but USA calls this terrorism

thats the issue i am talking about, why the USA is not abiding by the George Washington farewell speech, when he asked the coming generation not to be attached by passionate attachment, but now, they are being too much attached to israel, and as GW said, attachment to another nation produces a variety of evils...the illusion of common interests where no real common interests exist; adopting the enmities of the other, as he said, USA has adopted the enemies of israel, like iran, syria, iraq, all this countries, only has problems with israel, but USA is making this problems with USA instead of israel, in 1973 war, USA acts towarded egypt as an enemy in Nickel Grass operation, where it transfered Tons of military equipments to israil, which means it directly supported our enemy, by that, USA was our enemy in 1973, so, why USA is involving itself, and why is it gaining enemies of other.

Let me use another part of GW speech:
passionate attachment” of many idealistic Americans was to the new revolutionary republic of France, which was at war with England and other European monarchies. Not only did idealistic Americans feel an ideological affinity for a fellow republic involved in a life-or-death struggle with monarchical regimes, but many Americans held that a debt of gratitude was owed to France because of its military support during the American Revolution and that the United States was still obligated to abide by the 1778 alliance with France which did not include an end date. Washington, however, astutely held that in foreign policy the United States should pursue its own interests and not be involved in another country’s conflicts, which could only bring on unnecessary problems.

so although the french helped USA to be freed from the british colonization, GW refused to aid them, because he saw that USA had no interest in this war, and he should not involve america on an unjustified war, that was how GW dealt with france, so france halped USA to be free, but GW was commited to his policy, and now USA helps israel, even though israel never helped USA, so why is that !!!!


Because we like Jews better then muslims, its pretty basic.:cool:

[Gaffer]

Wow, another Jew hater. abso the ayrab. Here to spread arab propaganda are you? What part of the middle east are you from?

[chloe]

Wow, another Jew hater. abso the ayrab. Here to spread arab propaganda are you? What part of the middle east are you from?

whatever you do, watch out for his left hand.......:poke:

[abso]

abso are you a muslim extremist?

My name is Eslam, i am egyptian, and yes i am a muslim, but no i am not an extremist, i am just a normal guy, 20 years old, studing communication & electronic engineering, i even have a gf.

so as you see, i am not a Bearded man who wear a turban or anything, i dont carry a weapon, i just carry a calculator, i dont think that is considered a weapon :D

i dont hate jews, i dont hate israel, i dont want to kill anyone, i dont support killing civilians from any side, USA or Israel, or Palestine, i always condemn such actions, and my religion tells me so, to condemn killing the innocent people like 9/11 or gaza war or any suicide bombing in israel.

i am just someone who has an interest in politics, but appearently, everyone who thinks israel is wrong, is usualy called islamic extremist.

[abso]

What caused the change in borders in 1967? What proposals from the aggressors are there that such will not occur again?

i am sorry, but can you define who was the aggressors ?

[chloe]

My name is Eslam, i am egyptian, and yes i am a muslim, but no i am not an extremist, i am just a normal guy, 20 years old, studing communication & electronic engineering, i even have a gf.

so as you see, i am not a Bearded man who wear a turban or anything, i dont carry a weapon, i just carry a calculator, i dont think that is considered a weapon :D

i dont hate jews, i dont hate israel, i dont want to kill anyone, i dont support killing civilians from any side, USA or Israel, or Palestine, i always condemn such actions, and my religion tells me so, to condemn killing the innocent people like 9/11 or gaza war or any suicide bombing in israel.

i am just someone who has an interest in politics, but appearently, everyone who thinks israel is wrong, is usualy called islamic extremist.


:laugh2: are you a math wiz?

[abso]

Wow, another Jew hater. abso the ayrab. Here to spread arab propaganda are you? What part of the middle east are you from?

thanks for the warm welcome, but i am not a jewish hater, i have christian friends, and i was always nice to the jewich tourists in sharm el shiekh or Hurgada, i dont hate anyone...

[abso]

:laugh2: are you a math wiz?

although i dont know what you mean by math wiz, but that was a joke, i just carry it in exams :poke:

[chloe]

although i dont know what you mean by math wiz, but that was a joke, i just carry it in exams :poke:

what benefit are muslims to america?

[abso]

Because we like Jews better then muslims, its pretty basic.:cool:

i am sorry chloe, but what you like or dislike, has nothing to do with politics, and what you like has nothing to do with whats right and whats wrong, you may like smoking, but its still wrong, you may like porn, but its still wrong to watch, some kids may like beating younger kids in school, but its still wrong, what we like and dislike, is not relative to what is right and what is wrong.

[abso]

what benefit are muslims to america?

what benefit are israel to america ?

[chloe]

what benefit are israel to america ?


well there is Hollywood, banking, seriously funny comedic talent......oh yeah and money, money, money. Muslims need to step up and quit being so damn selfish, its not all about Allah pal, its about America so get real !:laugh2:

[abso]

well there is Hollywood, banking, seriously funny comedic talent......oh yeah and money, money, money. Muslims need to step up and quit being so damn selfish, its not all about Allah pal, its about America so get real !:laugh2:

if you want to mention money, i think arabs are alot richer than israel :D

about muslims, you may want to check your universities, cuz alot of arabs teach there, and i never said its all about allah, i never spoke about religion, why is it, that when someone speak about israel and palestine, you americans always speak about jews and muslims !!!, consider them as humans, we are all humans, dont make this a religious issue, its just political.

[chloe]

well it does us no good if your stingy with your wealth and muslims think in terms of allah not there human reality. damn wheres chesswarsnow when ya need him...wink

Jews share there wealth, Muslims should learn that social cue. Also are you muslim or not>?

[abso]

if its about america, then USA should stop doing whats best for israel, and start doing whats best for USA, they are not the same.

[chloe]

if its about america, then USA should stop doing whats best for israel, and start doing whats best for USA, they are not the same.


what would a muslim know is best for america?

[abso]

yes i am a muslim, and when did jewish share their wealth !!!!!

anyway, its not about wealth, its not about who has more money, its not about what i like or what you like, its about whats right and whats wrong

is it right to kill children ???

i can give you links to hundreds and hundreds of images of dead palestinians children, all done with US money, US weapons, and you still proud of supporting israel, your weapons kill childrens, isnt that enough for you to begin asking yourself, why am i supporting israel, isnt that enough to ask yourself, is this really a US war or Israilian war.

its like Hezbullah, USA says that they are terrorists, while they never attacked USA, they never harmed its interests anywhere around the world, they just fight israel which occupy southeren lebanon, if israel gets out of the lebanese lands, they Hezbullah will stop fighting israel, its that simple.

Egypt stopped fighting israel when israel got out of sinai, and its the same for everyone, palestinains will stop when israel gets back to 1967 borders, and Hezbullah will stop when israel gets out of the lebanese lands.

[abso]

why you keep calling me a muslim ???

why do you hate muslims that much ??

i dont hate christians or jews, so why you hate muslims, if you hate them, doesnt that make you a racist ?

[chloe]

No its not right for muslims to stone women and children to death, and Muslims should take there own advice and mind there own business, dont worry about who the usa loves and is friends with take your own advice and dont worry about it, worry only about allah and dont concern yourself with material things like land or territory since money and power arent important to you.:cool:

[chloe]

why you keep calling me a muslim ???

why do you hate muslims that much ??

i dont hate christians or jews, so why you hate muslims, if you hate them, doesnt that make you a racist ?

since there are muslims of all races I suppose not. It would make me patriotic to my countries best interest.:salute:

[abso]

who said land and money and power arent important to me, you really have a very wrong idea about muslims, you think that they are only alive to pray for ever.

stop being so hateful, i am not sure where did you get your ideas about muslims and why you hate them too much, u may have met some bad ones in yourlife, but that doesnot have anything to do with me, i am just someone new, and you dont know anything about me, so stop being a racist

[Gaffer]

i am sorry, but can you define who was the aggressors ?

You don't know the real history of the area. Your too young to even remember any of it.

Israel was attacked by Syria, Jordan, Egypt and support from the saudi's and iraq. They defeated them all and took much of the territory they now hold, which was the staging area for the assault on Israel. When the attack was launched it was the intention of the attackers to move into Israel and slaughter everyone there. I was in Vietnam at the time and my brigade was put on alert and standby to go to Israel and help protect the people there. Our gear was packed and the planes were waiting. By day three we were able to stand down because Israel had it under control. It took Israel 6 days to completely decimate the arab attackers, who had no qualms about killing innocents.

If you are so much against innocents being killed, then you should be condemning hamas and hezbollah for their continued launching of rockets into Israel for the purpose of killing innocent people. This in turn causes Israel to have to strike the rocket sites which are always surrounded by women and children. Are you also aware that hamas leaders in the area always keep a lot of children around them as shields against strikes by Israel? Your right there near the heart of things, you should be well aware of what's going on.

Just because your beardless and don't wear a turban doesn't mean your not supportive of the ones that do. Condemnation of Israel is not talking politics. It's just showing your like most of the rest of the world. Personally I think Israel should take an even harder line than they do. Especially since they are not going to get any support from the dark lord in washington.

I am waiting for the coming strike Israel will make against iran, probably this summer. Are you for it or against it? You realize iran wants to make Egypt part of its caliphate. What are your opinions on that?

[abso]

No its not right for muslims to stone women and children to death, and Muslims should take there own advice and mind there own business, dont worry about who the usa loves and is friends with take your own advice and dont worry about it, worry only about allah and dont concern yourself with material things like land or territory since money and power arent important to you.:cool:

stone who to death !!!, can you tell me of one person who died of palestinian stone !!!, they just throw them at the soliders.

and about them, they are resisting the colonization, even with stone, which is the available weapon to them, they have the right to defend their homes, and when someone enters your home without your permission, your american law gives you the right to shoot him, not just throw a stone at him, and i dont think that palestinians can enter israel and throw stones at the jews there, they just throw stones at the soliders in their palestinian land.

[chloe]

who said land and money and power arent important to me, you really have a very wrong idea about muslims, you think that they are only alive to pray for ever.

stop being so hateful, i am not sure where did you get your ideas about muslims and why you hate them too much, u may have met some bad ones in yourlife, but that doesnot have anything to do with me, i am just someone new, and you dont know anything about me, so stop being a racist


wake up there are all colors of muslims so stand on your religious beliefs and not your skin color. If you don't care about material things then why are you concerned with what land Jews have? Why concern yourself with who the USA supports? Its not hateful to ask those questions. You asked if its basically beneficial for my country to support Israel, and the answer is yes. I asked you what do muslims have to offer?

[abso]

You don't know the real history of the area. Your too young to even remember any of it.

Israel was attacked by Syria, Jordan, Egypt and support from the saudi's and iraq. They defeated them all and took much of the territory they now hold, which was the staging area for the assault on Israel. When the attack was launched it was the intention of the attackers to move into Israel and slaughter everyone there. I was in Vietnam at the time and my brigade was put on alert and standby to go to Israel and help protect the people there. Our gear was packed and the planes were waiting. By day three we were able to stand down because Israel had it under control. It took Israel 6 days to completely decimate the arab attackers, who had no qualms about killing innocents.

If you are so much against innocents being killed, then you should be condemning hamas and hezbollah for their continued launching of rockets into Israel for the purpose of killing innocent people. This in turn causes Israel to have to strike the rocket sites which are always surrounded by women and children. Are you also aware that hamas leaders in the area always keep a lot of children around them as shields against strikes by Israel? Your right there near the heart of things, you should be well aware of what's going on.

Just because your beardless and don't wear a turban doesn't mean your not supportive of the ones that do. Condemnation of Israel is not talking politics. It's just showing your like most of the rest of the world. Personally I think Israel should take an even harder line than they do. Especially since they are not going to get any support from the dark lord in washington.

I am waiting for the coming strike Israel will make against iran, probably this summer. Are you for it or against it? You realize iran wants to make Egypt part of its caliphate. What are your opinions on that?

i do condemn hamas and hezbullah, who said that i dont !!!, i said i condemn all innocent killings, but when you look at that subject, you will see that israel is the one doing most of the killings.

if israel gets back to 1967 borders, hamas will stop shooting rockets against it, if they still do, then USA can interfer or the UN, but not israilians troops.

i do not support a strike against iran, israel wants to prevent iran from having a nuke while it already has alot of nukes !!!, i dont think thats fair, if UN wants to prevent iran from having nukes, then it should disarm israel from its nukes first.

and i dont think iran is really after having a nuke, its very expensive and its stupid to have a nuke, cuz you will never use it, even israel cant use it, the moment israel use a nuke, USA will be forced to cut all its ties with israel and none will ever protect it again, and if iran uses a nuke, it will be nuked by USA, so whats the point of having a nuke !!!

and btw, i condemn 9/11 and i condemn Osama Bin Laden and i hate him for what he did, and i never said that i dont condemn the terrorists.

[abso]

wake up there are all colors of muslims so stand on your religious beliefs and not your skin color. If you don't care about material things then why are you concerned with what land Jews have? Why concern yourself with who the USA supports? Its not hateful to ask those questions. You asked if its basically beneficial for my country to support Israel, and the answer is yes. I asked you what do muslims have to offer?

so its not about right or wrong for you

you think your country is not acting like a hitman, whoever pays him more, he will work for him, if israel offers a good deal, then lets support isreal, and if arabs have a better one to offer, then lets support the arabs !!!!

is that your way of thinking ?, if that is your way, they i can stop wonder about how the israel lobby is buying the congress and the white house with money.

[chloe]

i do condemn hamas and hezbullah, who said that i dont !!!, i said i condemn all innocent killings, but when you look at that subject, you will see that israel is the one doing most of the killings.

if israel gets back to 1967 borders, hamas will stop shooting rockets against it, if they still do, then USA can interfer or the UN, but not israilians troops.

i do not support a strike against iran, israel wants to prevent iran from having a nuke while it already has alot of nukes !!!, i dont think thats fair, if UN wants to prevent iran from having nukes, then it should disarm israel from its nukes first.

and i dont think iran is really after having a nuke, its very expensive and its stupid to have a nuke, cuz you will never use it, even israel cant use it, the moment israel use a nuke, USA will be forced to cut all its ties with israel and none will ever protect it again, and if iran uses a nuke, it will be nuked by USA, so whats the point of having a nuke !!!


USA doesn't have to worry about Israel threatening us, yet Iran is a different matter. How can you even question the usa and where the loyalties lie after 9/11?

[chloe]

so its not about right or wrong for you

you think your country is not acting like a hitman, whoever pays him more, he will work for him, if israel offers a good deal, then lets support isreal, and if arabs have a better one to offer, then lets support the arabs !!!!

is that your way of thinking ?, if that is your way, they i can stop wonder about how the israel lobby is buying the congress and the white house with money.

You can stop and wonder, it is no secret that America has many religions not just one, and the friendlier religion to America between Muslim and Jew is definately Jew. America is Not the Middle East and we don't have to conform to your one sided belief, we go with the friend who supports our freedom and we support theres. Unfortunately Muslim only supports one belief all to Allah and does not allow others any freedom outside of that.

[abso]

in the investigation about 9/11, all USA cared about, is who did it, its obvious, its Osama Bin Laden, go catch him and kill him or throw him in a prison cell for the rest of his life, i dont care.

but there is another important question that USA nevr bothered to ask itself, why ???

why did Osama and his fellows hate USA that much ?

why some muslims hate USA ?

why palestinains hate USA ?

why almost every muslim alive condemn USA ?

its simple, cuz it supports israel who kills palestinians.

in his farwell speech, GW said, dont gaing enemies of others, arabs may be the enemies of israel, but USA is making them its own enemies, while we only have problems with israel, not ameica.

[abso]

who said that we dont allow other religions ?

in our religions, our holy book, tells us to respect christians and jews, to respect everyone and love everyone, and never to hate someone.

[chloe]

in the investigation about 9/11, all USA cared about, is who did it, its obvious, its Osama Bin Laden, go catch him and kill him or throw him in a prison cell for the rest of his life, i dont care.

but there is another important question that USA nevr bothered to ask itself, why ???

why did Osama and his fellows hate USA that much ?

why some muslims hate USA ?

why palestinains hate USA ?

why almost every muslim alive condemn USA ?

its simple, cuz it supports israel who kills palestinians.

in his farwell speech, GW said, dont gaing enemies of others, arabs may be the enemies of israel, but USA is making them its own enemies, while we only have problems with israel, not ameica.

Right and that IS the point, Muslims need to stop hating on Israel and live there supposed non materialistic religion, If you don't care about money or power, then quit fighting over territory land, money and power, Move and be quiet and pray to Allah and you won't be troubled over what the rest of the worlds doing. Unless of course Muslim has there own agenda just like everyone else does and muslim is no different in wanting to achieve some kind of power and will use force, money and power if necessary. If that is the case then of course again, the question becomes what do you have to offer and how does it benefit us>?

[abso]

during the discussion, you really showed that you hate muslims, but anyway, that is not the subject, you are talking like this topic is wrote by a muslim, but i assure you, i didnt write it, i just copied it from a US citizen as i said in the topic who happens to be:

James J. David a retired Brigadier General and a graduate of the U.S. Army's Command and General Staff College.

[Gaffer]

yes i am a muslim, and when did jewish share their wealth !!!!!

anyway, its not about wealth, its not about who has more money, its not about what i like or what you like, its about whats right and whats wrong

is it right to kill children ???

i can give you links to hundreds and hundreds of images of dead palestinians children, all done with US money, US weapons, and you still proud of supporting israel, your weapons kill childrens, isnt that enough for you to begin asking yourself, why am i supporting israel, isnt that enough to ask yourself, is this really a US war or Israilian war.

its like Hezbullah, USA says that they are terrorists, while they never attacked USA, they never harmed its interests anywhere around the world, they just fight israel which occupy southeren lebanon, if israel gets out of the lebanese lands, they Hezbullah will stop fighting israel, its that simple.

Egypt stopped fighting israel when israel got out of sinai, and its the same for everyone, palestinains will stop when israel gets back to 1967 borders, and Hezbullah will stop when israel gets out of the lebanese lands.

Israel has been out of Lebanon for years, yet hezbo keeps shooting rockets into Israel. They do it from the Lebanon border. hezbo is the proxy arm of iran. They were also responsible for the bombing of the Marine barracks. Also most all the other terror attacks throughout the world. I haven't noticed you condemning the suicide bombings in Israel of buses and businesses, where innocent people were killed just for being there. As you say, there's right and there's wrong. Is it wrong to take action to prevent such attacks? When innocents are used as shields is it wrong to take action anyway? Apparently its wrong for Israel to take action to defend itself, but not wrong of the arabs that are attacking them. You seem to have a double standard here.

[chloe]

during the discussion, you really showed that you hate muslims, but anyway, that is not the subject, you are talking like this topic is wrote by a muslim, but i assure you, i didnt write it, i just copied it from a US citizen as i said in the topic who happens to be:

James J. David a retired Brigadier General and a graduate of the U.S. Army's Command and General Staff College.

:laugh2: but you said you are a muslim and I am asking you what you think. btw you can neg rep me if I am making you angry.

[Gaffer]

during the discussion, you really showed that you hate muslims, but anyway, that is not the subject, you are talking like this topic is wrote by a muslim, but i assure you, i didnt write it, i just copied it from a US citizen as i said in the topic who happens to be:

James J. David a retired Brigadier General and a graduate of the U.S. Army's Command and General Staff College.

A known Jew hater.

[abso]

Right and that IS the point, Muslims need to stop hating on Israel and live there supposed non materialistic religion, If you don't care about money or power, then quit fighting over territory land, money and power, Move and be quiet and pray to Allah and you won't be troubled over what the rest of the worlds doing. Unless of course Muslim has there own agenda just like everyone else does and muslim is no different in wanting to achieve some kind of power and will use force, money and power if necessary. If that is the case then of course again, the question becomes what do you have to offer and how does it benefit us>?


thats exactly the point, palestinians are welling to live peacefully, but israel refuses to get back to 1967 borders, they refuse to get out of the settlements, even when USA asks them to stop buliding settlements in the occupied land, they ignore USA and continue, they refuse to get out of the occupied land, they deny the palestinian refugees their right to return to their homeland, so how can you say that we refuse peace !!!

if israil moved out of the occupied land, then ther will be no war.

[Kathianne]

i am sorry, but can you define who was the aggressors ?

You implied that in 1967 the boundaries changed, I asked if you knew why? Last I remember there was a war, I do believe your country was involved. How did that go again? Which country(ies) attacked another?

[abso]

A known Jew hater.

what about
Gideon Levy: Israeli Journalist, He lives in Israel
Norman Finkelstein: Jewish University Professor, American Citizen
Alan Hart: American Journalist

[chloe]

thats exactly the point, palestinians are welling to live peacefully, but israel refuses to get back to 1967 borders, they refuse to get out of the settlements, even when USA asks them to stop buliding settlements in the occupied land, they ignore USA and continue, they refuse to get out of the occupied land, they deny the palestinian refugees their right to return to their homeland, so how can you say that we refuse peace !!!

if israil moved out of the occupied land, then ther will be no war.

and Muslims also terrorize , despise and hate americans. What do they have to offer?

[abso]

:laugh2: but you said you are a muslim and I am asking you what you think. btw you can neg rep me if I am making you angry.


i am not here to get angry, i am here to discuss with moderate americans, not with muslim haters, if you hate muslims, then i feel sorry for you, and you can keep hating them as you wish, if you dont, then all your replies are welcome and i will keep discussing with you with respect for you and for everyone in this site.

[chloe]

i am not here to get angry, i am here to discuss with moderate americans, not with muslim haters, if you hate muslims, then i feel sorry for you, and you can keep hating them as you wish, if you dont, then all your replies are welcome and i will keep discussing with you with respect for you and for everyone in this site.

Muslims don't respect Americans, and you still haven't answered my question. How is it beneficial for America what do muslims have to offer?

[Kathianne]

i am not here to get angry, i am here to discuss with moderate americans, not with muslim haters, if you hate muslims, then i feel sorry for you, and you can keep hating them as you wish, if you dont, then all your replies are welcome and i will keep discussing with you with respect for you and for everyone in this site.

I don't 'hate' Muslims, I respect that they mean what they say, as does their religion. While there are those that claim there is a perversion of the religion by those that are labeled extremists, I haven't seen passionate arguments of such by those who actually practice their religion. With that said, there are those who practice without turning to violence, those I haven't a problem with.

Oh that general who wrote the article? He IS Muslim and Arab.

http://apaam.org/GenJamesDavid.htm

[abso]

and Muslims also terrorize , despise and hate americans. What do they have to offer?


muslims doesnt hate america, i am a muslim, and i dont hate USA, if you dont want me to tell you whats best for USA just cuz i am a muslim, then i dont want you to tell me the way i feel about USA, thanks, i can say what i feel myself, i dont need someone else to tell me that i hate america while i never did and will never do.

hate is for a person, not for a nation, i cant hate a whole nation or a while race for something that someone from that nation or race has done to me, i cant hate all israilians cuz isralian army killed alot of egyptians in the Israili-Egyptian war, and btw, they even bombed a school in egypt in 8th april 1970, and killed more than 30 elementary school kids in one strike and injuried more than 70, thats the israel i am talking about, so dont blame me for condemning israel, i think i have enough justification for condemning israel actions.

[chloe]

in the investigation about 9/11, all USA cared about, is who did it, its obvious, its Osama Bin Laden, go catch him and kill him or throw him in a prison cell for the rest of his life, i dont care.

but there is another important question that USA nevr bothered to ask itself, why ???

why did Osama and his fellows hate USA that much ?

why some muslims hate USA ?

why palestinains hate USA ?

why almost every muslim alive condemn USA ?

its simple, cuz it supports israel who kills palestinians.

in his farwell speech, GW said, dont gaing enemies of others, arabs may be the enemies of israel, but USA is making them its own enemies, while we only have problems with israel, not ameica.


muslims doesnt hate america, i am a muslim, and i dont hate USA, if you dont want me to tell you whats best for USA just cuz i am a muslim, then i dont want you to tell me the way i feel about USA, thanks, i can say what i feel myself, i dont need someone else to tell me that i hate america while i never did and will never do.

hate is for a person, not for a nation, i cant hate a whole nation or a while race for something that someone from that nation or race has done to me, i cant hate all israilians cuz isralian army killed alot of egyptians in the Israili-Egyptian war, and btw, they even bombed a school in egypt in 8th april 1970, and killed more than 30 elementary school kids in one strike and injuried more than 70, thats the israel i am talking about, so dont blame me for condemning israel, i think i have enough justification for condemning israel actions.

Whatever you say ......:poke:

[abso]

I don't 'hate' Muslims, I respect that they mean what they say, as does their religion. While there are those that claim there is a perversion of the religion by those that are labeled extremists, I haven't seen passionate arguments of such by those who actually practice their religion. With that said, there are those who practice without turning to violence, those I haven't a problem with.

Oh that general who wrote the article? He IS Muslim and Arab.

http://apaam.org/GenJamesDavid.htm



just his grandparent were from lebanon, so his father and mother and him all born in US, so whats the problem ???, its the same for many americans, america is all consisted ot immigrants, and what about Norman Gary Finkelstein, who is jewish, whose parents are german and suffered from the holocust, but still, he hates israel for what it does to the palestinians.

people, lets stop talking about who is muslim and who is jewish, and who hates jewish and who hates arabs, i started this topic to talk about the american support for israel, while israel should be treated like anyother country, it should be treated as equal to france or germany or russia, there shouldnt be any passionate attachment in politics.

[chloe]

just his grandparent were from lebanon, so his father and mother and him all born in US, so whats the problem ???, its the same for many americans, america is all consisted ot immigrants, and what about Norman Gary Finkelstein, who is jewish, whose parents are german and suffered from the holocust, but still, he hates israel for what it does to the palestinians.

people, lets stop talking about who is muslim and who is jewish, and who hates jewish and who hates arabs, i started this topic to talk about the american support for israel, while israel should be treated like anyother country, it should be treated as equal to france or germany or russia, there shouldnt be any passionate attachment in politics.


Israel has much to offer in friendship, I don't see what your muslim pals have to offer.

[Gaffer]

thats exactly the point, palestinians are welling to live peacefully, but israel refuses to get back to 1967 borders, they refuse to get out of the settlements, even when USA asks them to stop buliding settlements in the occupied land, they ignore USA and continue, they refuse to get out of the occupied land, they deny the palestinian refugees their right to return to their homeland, so how can you say that we refuse peace !!!

if israil moved out of the occupied land, then ther will be no war.

The pals want everything in Israel. They want all the Jews dead and they want to run the country. Going back to the 67 borders just puts them back in a good staging position for another multinational assault. palestine to this day is nothing but a territory populated by mostly jordanian arabs who weren't allowed to be assimilated back into jordan because it was more convenient to use them as an excuse to continue to attack Israel. They are still being used.

It's not a political thing, its a religious thing. It's muslims verses Jews for now. Then muslims verses anyone else. islam does not teach love and tolerance. It teaches deception and intolerance. You tolerate what you can't conquer until you are strong enough to conquer it.

Based on what you have posted so far I think your a a hezbo propagandist.

[Kathianne]

just his grandparent were from lebanon, so his father and mother and him all born in US, so whats the problem ???, its the same for many americans, america is all consisted ot immigrants, and what about Norman Gary Finkelstein, who is jewish, whose parents are german and suffered from the holocust, but still, he hates israel for what it does to the palestinians.

people, lets stop talking about who is muslim and who is jewish, and who hates jewish and who hates arabs, i started this topic to talk about the american support for israel, while israel should be treated like anyother country, it should be treated as equal to france or germany or russia, there shouldnt be any passionate attachment in politics.

Again, earlier you stated he wasn't, I was just clearing the air with some facts. Yes, Abso, lots of folks don't agree with Israel, many don't agree with Palestinians. There are many that don't like Irish, Poles, Blacks, Hindus, etc.

I believe the first question you asked, through inference of the article you chose and your poll, is whether or not Israel should have the support of US. I asked if there was anything Israel can do to protect itself that won't have every country or nearly every country, with the exception of US, condemning them? You really failed to answer that, though you brought up '67 borders, like that would make everything better. Too many peace overtures to that very point, that were rejected time and again make that a fallacious argument.

[chloe]

Again, earlier you stated he wasn't, I was just clearing the air with some facts. Yes, Abso, lots of folks don't agree with Israel, many don't agree with Palestinians. There are many that don't like Irish, Poles, Blacks, Hindus, etc.

I believe the first question you asked, through inference of the article you chose and your poll, is whether or not Israel should have the support of US. I asked if there was anything Israel can do to protect itself that won't have every country or nearly every country, with the exception of US, condemning them? You really failed to answer that, though you brought up '67 borders, like that would make everything better. Too many peace overtures to that very point, that were rejected time and again make that a fallacious argument.

:laugh2: abso is not so good at answering direct questions.

[Gaffer]

what about
Gideon Levy: Israeli Journalist, He lives in Israel
Norman Finkelstein: Jewish University Professor, American Citizen
Alan Hart: American Journalist

Self hating jews. We have self haters here too.

[abso]

The pals want everything in Israel. They want all the Jews dead and they want to run the country. Going back to the 67 borders just puts them back in a good staging position for another multinational assault. palestine to this day is nothing but a territory populated by mostly jordanian arabs who weren't allowed to be assimilated back into jordan because it was more convenient to use them as an excuse to continue to attack Israel. They are still being used.

It's not a political thing, its a religious thing. It's muslims verses Jews for now. Then muslims verses anyone else. islam does not teach love and tolerance. It teaches deception and intolerance. You tolerate what you can't conquer until you are strong enough to conquer it.

Based on what you have posted so far I think your a a hezbo propagandist.



emmm, actually, i dont support hezbullah as u think, i may understand their cause, but lately the egyptian security forces caught a spy network working for hezbullah in egypt, so they even work against egypt sometimes, so calling me a hezbo propagandist is not right at all.

i just defend the palestinians right to have their land back, and you dont know the history of this area well enough, you should go and study more history or read more.

and dont make assumtions, you say they got their land back they will attack again ???, why would they ???

have you ever asked yourself, why would a person bomb himself ???

its not about religion, actually our religion forbidds us from killing ourselfs, our religion tells us to preserve human life and every type of life, plants or animals.

back then when the islam started, when we conqured a lot of countries, we nearly defeated all the empires that existed in the world, at that time, Umar Ibn el Khatab was the Caliph, one day a persian messenger cam to meet him as the leader of the islamic empire, he kept walking in the streets searching for the palace, and he didnt find one, and when he asked for Umar, ppl took him to Umar, he found him sleeping under a tree, while putting his shoes as a pillow under his head, that was the great man who defeated the Sassanid Empire, that was the Humility of the muslims.

everyone thinks wrong of the islam, i dont know where you got this ideas, that we are monsters, we never were a monsters who want war, even back then when the islamic empire conqured and defeated other empires, it was because this empires threatened our land.

who started WWI were there was a total number of deaths includes 9.7 million military personnel and about 6.8 million civilians, was it muslims ???

who started WWII were Over 60 million people were killed, was it muslims ???

who nuked 2 towns and killed more than 150,000 civilians, was it muslims ????

why you all want to think of muslims as a men of war and terrorism ???

[abso]

:laugh2: abso is not so good at answering direct questions.


i will be able to concentrate and answer all the question soon when i finish exams and stop studing at the same time with answering questions.

and this article is about discussing, not about attacking the persons who are discussing, so stop attacking me.

[abso]

Again, earlier you stated he wasn't, I was just clearing the air with some facts. Yes, Abso, lots of folks don't agree with Israel, many don't agree with Palestinians. There are many that don't like Irish, Poles, Blacks, Hindus, etc.

I believe the first question you asked, through inference of the article you chose and your poll, is whether or not Israel should have the support of US. I asked if there was anything Israel can do to protect itself that won't have every country or nearly every country, with the exception of US, condemning them? You really failed to answer that, though you brought up '67 borders, like that would make everything better. Too many peace overtures to that very point, that were rejected time and again make that a fallacious argument.


excuse me for getting distracted by discussing more than one at the same time, i got lost between the opinions, amuslim hater and an arab hater, and some one who thinks that we are monsters, and a moderate person "who is you btw", so excuse me if i get a little distracted.

about your question, you ask that, can israel protect it self without gatting condemnation from all over the world, my answer, was direct, yes, by getting back to 1967 borders, then if arabs attacked, it will get support, but it cant get support while occupying the arabian lands, israel should return back to its land, then watch, if someone attacked, everyone will condemn him, but now, israel will get condemnation because it is occupying a land which is not theirs, thats the issue. straight yourself up first then ask for other to straighten them selfs, you cant ask someone to stop smoking while you yourself are smoking, can you ?

[abso]

Self hating jews. We have self haters here too.


so everyone who condemn israel is just a jew hater, not because what israel doing is wrong, and everyone who support palestinians is a jew haters, not because they have the right to get their land back, interesting point of view....

so the only think right from your point of view, is supporting isreal, otherwise, i am a terrorist, and a jew hatter, and a hezbo propagandist and a monster who want to attack the whole world :D

Thanks for the interesting opinion... and again i say, I DONT SUPPORT ISRAEL, I AM NOT A JEW HATER....



btw, i talked earlier about Umar Ibn Khatab, who was the muslim Caliph, let me add this part:
"It was Umar who for the first time in 500 years since expulsion of Jews from the Holy Land, allowed them to practice their religion freely and live in Jerusalem."

for those who think that muslims are too wrong or too bad, if you are interested in just a little reading about one of our good figures, read this page and stop getting your views about islam from your opinion about Osama Bin Laden and the bad figures like him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar

[chloe]

i will be able to concentrate and answer all the question soon when i finish exams and stop studing at the same time with answering questions.

and this article is about discussing, not about attacking the persons who are discussing, so stop attacking me.


ok

[Kathianne]

excuse me for getting distracted by discussing more than one at the same time, i got lost between the opinions, amuslim hater and an arab hater, and some one who thinks that we are monsters, and a moderate person "who is you btw", so excuse me if i get a little distracted.

about your question, you ask that, can israel protect it self without gatting condemnation from all over the world, my answer, was direct, yes, by getting back to 1967 borders, then if arabs attacked, it will get support, but it cant get support while occupying the arabian lands, israel should return back to its land, then watch, if someone attacked, everyone will condemn him, but now, israel will get condemnation because it is occupying a land which is not theirs, thats the issue. straight yourself up first then ask for other to straighten them selfs, you cant ask someone to stop smoking while you yourself are smoking, can you ?

So once again I ask you, how do you justify all the refusals in peace talks that were for just the purpose of setting borders at '67, with the only caveats to prevent the easy drive in that occurred then?

[abso]

ok

that was the first respond witout any sarcasm in it, hope you can continue in the discussion like that.. and thanks

[chloe]

that was the first respond witout any sarcasm in it, hope you can continue in the discussion like that.. and thanks


sorry

[abso]

So once again I ask you, how do you justify all the refusals in peace talks that were for just the purpose of setting borders at '67, with the only caveats to prevent the easy drive in that occurred then?

because israel always put a predetermined condition before any negotiations, like refusing to negotiate about the refuges right to return to their land, while that is essential for the palestinians, and they refuse to stop buliding the settlements, which is a simple request that should be answered before any negotiation, when Obama himself asks israel to stop building settlements, and then Netanyahu says that they will not stop building settlements, is that the attitude of a country that wants peace negotiations ???????????????

[Kathianne]

because israel always put a predetermined condition before any negotiations, like refusing to negotiate about the refuges right to return to their land, while that is essential for the palestinians, and they refuse to stop buliding the settlements, which is a simple request that should be answered before any negotiation, when Obama himself asks israel to stop building settlements, and then Netanyahu says that they will not stop building settlements, is that the attitude of a country that wants peace negotiations ???????????????

Funny, seems it's not the Israelis putting those conditions on, rather the Palestinians. You say, 'It would take this one thing...' not the case. Israel will not be open to invasion as in '67. Palestinians claim they want return to borders, but really want the whole enchilada. No Israel.

[abso]

Funny, seems it's not the Israelis putting those conditions on, rather the Palestinians. You say, 'It would take this one thing...' not the case. Israel will not be open to invasion as in '67. Palestinians claim they want return to borders, but really want the whole enchilada. No Israel.

you say really they want the whole land, how would you know that, did you give them the chance to have their land and they demanded more ???

i can even go further with the problem to 1984 war and the massacres that the jewish did backthen, or even 1917, Balfour Declaration, when the british empire promised the jewish with a homeland in palestine.


here is the statement:

His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."



so actually they admit that there were already non-jew population, while some jews say that this land were empty.

since when does the occupation get to promise someone that he will give him his colony!!!, is palestine a land for selling to the jews, the british empire, gave it as a present to the jews while they had no right to come and claim it to be their land and kill and massacre the ppl who live there.

anyway, what happened in 1917 and 1948 is not the issue, although its not right for them to claim a land and call it their country while they have taken it from the existing ppl, all the arabs agreed for the israeli existance at the 1967 borders, they can have their country based on the 67 borders, but now they are occupying more and they dont want to leave the pccupied land.

you already judged that the palestinians wants the whole land, while you have no evidence of that, have you given them the chance to prove you wrong ???

dont prejudge ppl, give them the chance to act right, before judging them and condemning them and depriving them from their right to live in a free country, dont deprive them from their right to raise their children in a free country.

do you know how many houses does israel demolish every week or two, how many family get thrown at the streets, with nowhere to go, do you know how many palestinians have been killed just because they want their land back.

none wants war, everyone wants to live freely, everyone wants to go to school, go to college, work in a good job, to have a house, and marry a women you love, to have children, to raise them in a good way, palestinians are deprived from all this normal human rights, while israelian population whish everyone says that it is terrorized, live freely, in a free and beautiful country, they can live normally as in any other country, while palestinians have to struggle to get their food, everytime a child leaves his home, his mother will ask herself if her child will return or he will die from an apache rocket or a bullet from a solider who will say later that it was misfire.

you think that israelian army when it enter cities in palestine will act morally, they steal and destory homes, they kill ppl, you cant stop such corruption when you are having a war, and if you think that you can have a clean war, then go read about iraqi war, and how many USA soliders have commited crimes, who enabled them to do so, its the man who sent them there in the first place, its G.Bush, so when a crime occur, i dont blame the israili army, i blame the israili government which allowed him in the first place to enter a territory which is not his, to act freely in it and kill innocent people.

someone will say again that they are defending themself against the unguided stupid meaningless rockets which is fired by Hamas, i will just say, that hamas is fighting for a reason, doing some wrong actions in its war, like suicide bombings and so, but lets get real, so do the israilians, their soliders keep doing all the war crimes, bombing schools, hospitals or anywhere which they suspect to be the place of one terroist.

if you have to kill 10 or 12 children just to get to one man that you want to kill, would you want such a burden on you conscience ???, if it were me, i would refuse to do such a mission, there is always other means, for a sniper to kill someone it wont take 12 children with him, but when you throw off a one ton bomb just to kill one person, and take out 12 children with him, then i would call you a criminal, i think thats the common sense.

finally, its not the palestinians who are putting such conditions, its israel that is declaring that its not welling to discuss those matter, it declares that it will never discuss the refuges right to return, so how would the palestinians enter a negotioation with someone who already refused one of their main requests, and israel refuses to get out of the settlements which is in the occupied area after 1967, and it continue to build more settlements in the occupied area, so shortly, it again refuses the most essential request of the netgotioation, which is to get back to 1967 borders, because it wants to holds to its settlements which lies in the occupied land, so how can israel get back to 1967 while it refuses to get out of the settlements !!!!

[Gaffer]

emmm, actually, i dont support hezbullah as u think, i may understand their cause, but lately the egyptian security forces caught a spy network working for hezbullah in egypt, so they even work against egypt sometimes, so calling me a hezbo propagandist is not right at all.

i just defend the palestinians right to have their land back, and you dont know the history of this area well enough, you should go and study more history or read more.

and dont make assumtions, you say they got their land back they will attack again ???, why would they ???

have you ever asked yourself, why would a person bomb himself ???

its not about religion, actually our religion forbidds us from killing ourselfs, our religion tells us to preserve human life and every type of life, plants or animals.

back then when the islam started, when we conqured a lot of countries, we nearly defeated all the empires that existed in the world, at that time, Umar Ibn el Khatab was the Caliph, one day a persian messenger cam to meet him as the leader of the islamic empire, he kept walking in the streets searching for the palace, and he didnt find one, and when he asked for Umar, ppl took him to Umar, he found him sleeping under a tree, while putting his shoes as a pillow under his head, that was the great man who defeated the Sassanid Empire, that was the Humility of the muslims.

everyone thinks wrong of the islam, i dont know where you got this ideas, that we are monsters, we never were a monsters who want war, even back then when the islamic empire conqured and defeated other empires, it was because this empires threatened our land.

who started WWI were there was a total number of deaths includes 9.7 million military personnel and about 6.8 million civilians, was it muslims ???

who started WWII were Over 60 million people were killed, was it muslims ???

who nuked 2 towns and killed more than 150,000 civilians, was it muslims ????

why you all want to think of muslims as a men of war and terrorism ???

Where to begin? islam was stopped in its conquest of the world by the crusades. The Europeans finally got it into their heads that the muslims needed to be stopped. Admittedly I have not studied islams heroes. If I did I would want actual facts and not poetic writing of some saintly fellow whose kindness was more on the order of Gin-gas Khan.

WW1 was a European war, and Turkey, center of the Ottoman empire was a part of it. Turkey lost along with Germany. That's how palistine came to be. In fact all the mideast countries: Jordan, syria, saudi's, iraq, yemen and others were formed from the former empire. palistine was a territory reserved for nomads, controlled by the British.

WW2 had nothing to do with islam, but the nazi's did take the arabs under wing and taught them all about Jew hatred. Those arab nazi's still exist today. They use different names and terms, but it's still the same ideology.

The war with Japan has nothing to do with this discussion. Unless you want to compare Shinto and Bushido to modern day muslims?

islam is about conquest and control of people and populations. It literally means to submit. It's all about controlling peoples lives and thoughts. It is diametrically opposed to freedom and everything Americans believe in.

I do know history, and I understand islam a lot better than you think I do. I understand that a man will blow himself up because he was told he would go straight to heaven and receive 72 virgins. Why that is important I don't understand? I understand that if I stop following islams teaching I am subject to death. I understand that anyone that makes a joke or a cartoon about mohammad is subject to death. I understand that women are considered sub-human and must be under a mans control at all times. I understand that muslims have never contributed anything in the way of technology or education to the world. What they have currently, they got from others. islam is like christianity in the middle ages, suppressing people and innovation under the guise of spirituality. I also understand the purpose and goals of soft jihad.

I also understand that the palistanians are nothing but the pawns and tools of the regional muslim leaders of the middle east. To be used and thrown away with no concern about their living conditions which are not cause by the Israeli's but by the countries that refuse to aid them.

[abso]

Browse this site if you have 10 minutes of free time:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

There is alot to read there, it will take you alot of time if you want to read it all, it was founded entirely by americans, not arabs, take your time in reading it if you want to know more about that conflict.

To know about the creators of the site:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/about_us/whoweare.html

There new board members are:
Eleven-term Illinois Congressman Paul Findley
Ambassador Andrew Killgore served as a career foreign service officer and as aU.S. Ambassador.

[abso]

Where to begin? islam was stopped in its conquest of the world by the crusades. The Europeans finally got it into their heads that the muslims needed to be stopped. Admittedly I have not studied islams heroes. If I did I would want actual facts and not poetic writing of some saintly fellow whose kindness was more on the order of Gin-gas Khan.

WW1 was a European war, and Turkey, center of the Ottoman empire was a part of it. Turkey lost along with Germany. That's how palistine came to be. In fact all the mideast countries: Jordan, syria, saudi's, iraq, yemen and others were formed from the former empire. palistine was a territory reserved for nomads, controlled by the British.

WW2 had nothing to do with islam, but the nazi's did take the arabs under wing and taught them all about Jew hatred. Those arab nazi's still exist today. They use different names and terms, but it's still the same ideology.

The war with Japan has nothing to do with this discussion. Unless you want to compare Shinto and Bushido to modern day muslims?

islam is about conquest and control of people and populations. It literally means to submit. It's all about controlling peoples lives and thoughts. It is diametrically opposed to freedom and everything Americans believe in.

I do know history, and I understand islam a lot better than you think I do. I understand that a man will blow himself up because he was told he would go straight to heaven and receive 72 virgins. Why that is important I don't understand? I understand that if I stop following islams teaching I am subject to death. I understand that anyone that makes a joke or a cartoon about mohammad is subject to death. I understand that women are considered sub-human and must be under a mans control at all times. I understand that muslims have never contributed anything in the way of technology or education to the world. What they have currently, they got from others. islam is like christianity in the middle ages, suppressing people and innovation under the guise of spirituality. I also understand the purpose and goals of soft jihad.

I also understand that the palistanians are nothing but the pawns and tools of the regional muslim leaders of the middle east. To be used and thrown away with no concern about their living conditions which are not cause by the Israeli's but by the countries that refuse to aid them.

your opinion about islam is interesting, you think that you reallly do know about islam, while you dont, there is alot you dont know, but the problem is that this discussion is not about islam itself, i can tell you alot about islam and the women in islam and the jihad, and why would someone bomb himself "btw its not to get 72 virgin".

its funny you think that the women in islam must be controlled by the man, while i am being controlled by a women "my mother :D"

you think that all we want is to bomb ourselfs, control women, kill everyone and pray to god ???

then why am i not in the mosque praying now, why am i studing engineering, why am i every discussing with you, why do i care about discussion if all i want is to kill ???

its not death that we seek for those who insult MUHAMMED, we just demand respect, people shouldnt be allowed to insult each other, people should respect each other beliefs, Muslims never insults jeasus, then never insults Moses, we respect other religions, so why wont you respect our religion, respect our belief, respect our Prophet, is that too much to ask for, we just ask not to insult our beliefs, that not too much i think.

about women, you think that we despise women, control them, and treat them like slave, that is not true at all, we respect women, we treat them very good, they are like jewels to us, they are too precious, a women is a delicate creature, that should be treated well by others, that how god created us, he created men and women to take care of each other, respect each other, complete each other, a strong man with a weak woman, the life would be like hell without women, so bottom line, we love our women, we respect them, we treat them well, then are not imprisoned as you think, they can go out, have education, work, travel, they have all the rights as men, i dont know where you got your idea about women in islam, but i assure you its not right even if you saw an example in USA which made you believe so, a one case does not describe the whole islamic world..

[abso]

Pictures about the Topic:


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/47689692_27e9e4a66c.jpg


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1015/3170392010_d8b56d96f5.jpg


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/120/255484340_3a671469f9.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JWVqRk8jzNY/SXPoWDs6RZI/AAAAAAAACvs/3H6JtFKdT8Y/s400/palestinian_children_killed_by_israeli_fire_in_gaz a__file_2007.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vVNy4t_jpYs/SVq7AEycZ1I/AAAAAAAAA84/dCUJRUEblpY/s400/three+kids.jpg


http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/gaza86-300x184.jpg


http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/gaza11-300x243.jpg


http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/gaza68-300x206.jpg


http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/gaza110-300x195.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vVNy4t_jpYs/SVqm6Zm0ZBI/AAAAAAAAA8Y/vOdDO2yrHys/s400/lama.jpg

[abso]

http://bigbrassblog.com/media/6/20090117-infantvictimGazaJan09wikipedia.jpg


http://www.thecornerreport.com/media/blogs/links/whitephosrain.jpg

Palestinian civilians and medics run to safety during an Israeli strike over a UN school in Beit Lahia (Mohammed Abed/AFP/Getty Images)
The incident being investigated is believed to be the firing of white phosphorous shells at a UN school in Beit Lahiya on January 17.
By James Hider in Jerusalem and Sheera Frenkel in Gaza City

After weeks of denying that it used white phosphorus in the heavily populated Gaza Strip, Israel finally admitted yesterday that the weapon was deployed in its offensive.

The army’s use of white phosphorus – which makes a distinctive shellburst of dozens of smoke trails – was reported first by The Times on January 5, when it was strenuously denied by the army. Now, in the face of mounting evidence and international outcry, Israel has been forced to backtrack on that initial denial. “Yes, phosphorus was used but not in any illegal manner,” Yigal Palmor, a Foreign Ministry spokesman, told The Times. “Some practices could be illegal but we are going into that. The IDF (Israel Defence Forces) is holding an investigation concerning one specific incident.”


http://www.thecornerreport.com/media/blogs/links/deadbabieswrapped.jpg

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http://www.thecornerreport.com/media/blogs/links/dtizz.jpg
Dr Izz el-Deen Aboul Aish bursts into tears on Friday after his daughters' deaths

By Ben Lynfield in Tel Hashomer, Israel
19 January 2009

Like the shellings of UN-run schools and a major hospital in Gaza City, the Israeli public might have regarded the deaths of his three daughters as just more collateral damage in an ugly but justified war, if they noticed it at all. But Dr Izz el-Deen Aboul Aish is a gynaecologist at Israel's Shiba Hospital near Tel Aviv, and is well known among Israeli medical colleagues and journalists.

During the 22 days of Israel's military onslaught on Gaza, the Palestinian doctor and peace advocate who speaks Hebrew fluently had helped the Israeli media cover the war by giving phone interviews from inside Gaza.

But on Friday night, Dr Aboul Aish's scheduled live interview with Israeli Channel 10 television was conducted minutes after three of his daughters were killed by an Israeli shell. His raw anguish forced Israelis to take their first real glimpse of the suffering and death caused to Palestinian civilians.
Shlomi Eldar, the Channel 10 correspondent, his own voice choking with emotion, repeatedly noted Dr Aboul Aish's connection to Shiba Hospital as he held out his mobile phone, allowing viewers to hear the physician cry and sob: "My daughters, they killed them, Oh lord, God, God, God."
"I want to save them but they are dead," Dr Aboul Aish said. In a video of the interview, available on YouTube, the physician can be heard imploring for help while a shaken Mr Eldar pleads on air for anyone in the army who might be viewing to let ambulances reach the Aboul Aish home in the Jebalya refugee camp. "Maybe something can still be saved," he said.
Because of the publicity, another of his daughters and a brother were evacuated quickly to Israel for treatment. Other Palestinian civilians have gone without medical care for days.

But it was not just the death of his three daughters, Bisan, Mayar and Aya, 20, 15 and 12 respectively, that left Dr Aboul Aish in anguish yesterday. It was the feeling among some Israelis that he, like many other Gazans who have suffered in the violence, is being blamed for his own tragedy. At Shiba Hospital near Tel Aviv, where a surviving daughter, Sheda, 17, is being treated for shrapnel in the eye, the doctor repeated yesterday that there were no Hamas gunmen firing from his house, as the army suggested yesterday, when two shells hit a bedroom. The army is also saying the UN compound and the hospital were used by gunmen or they were nearby.

"I had left the room seconds earlier. How would gunmen have reached the roof? From where would they have entered?" he asked. The physician, who did his residency at Soroka Hospital in the Israeli city of Beersheba, was adamant he had not allowed his house to be a Hamas firing position. "I have never done anything wrong in my life. If you don't believe Palestinians, ask Israelis who doctor Aboul Aish is. They should just admit they made a mistake. There is no shame in making a mistake, but don't deceive the nation," he said in Hebrew.
An Israeli colleague, Carmi Z Margolis, director of the medical school for international medicine at Ben Gurion University, said: "This is a man known as a man of peace for many years. It's a terrible tragedy. I don't know if there was a sniper but I know the man. It needs to be investigated why they shelled the home of a man of peace in Gaza."
The preponderance of civilian casualties among the more than 1,200 Palestinian dead is only now being gently questioned in the Israeli mainstream media, which has generally accepted at face value the army's explanation that Hamas uses civilians as human shields.
The general lack of interest in Palestinian civilian casualties stems from Hamas rocket attacks on southern Israel, says Yossi Sarid, former head of the liberal Meretz party. He believes public opinion is unlikely to change despite Dr Aboul Aish's tragedy.
"The window has been opened narrowly to the other side. But support for the war is overwhelming. People were tired of watching the towns in the south be shelled, so there has been almost no critical view of events."

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http://www.thecornerreport.com/media/blogs/links/deadgirl3.jpg

http://muslimmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/gaza-dead-girl.jpg

http://muslimmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/dead-gaza-kids.jpg

http://muslimmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/five-sisters-gaza.jpg

http://aftermathnews.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/dead_child_gaza_jan5-09.jpg

http://www.sott.net/image/image/9293/medium/Slain_Gaza_children.jpg

[abso]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/1/9/1231503486874/Israel-Continues-Attacks--001.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Vr8Xl0cbUZA/SXDV3NQW5SI/AAAAAAAAFus/atVpRvQQDNg/s400/Image+%3D+Mother_Dead_Son_sm.jpg


http://www.rafahtoday.org/newsphotos/07/march/28/Palestinian%20child.jpg


http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/images/palestinian_child_400.jpg


http://www.israelshamir.net/Images/terrorism.bmp


============================================




Sorry for taking too much of your time, i even got tired from putting pictures,these is just a small number, while there still hunders and thousands of pictures that you can see.


but dont worry, they were just muslim kids, collateral damage, they doest count as humans, they are monsters who dont deserve to live side by side with the great israilian state, they stone people to death, so they deserve to die.


some may say this pictures are faked, i would say, go ahead, convince yourself with what ever makes you comfortable, you can lie in your bed, sleep at night peacefully, while saying, israel is a great state, we should support it forever, while arabs are terrorists, they are the roots of all evil in the world.


anyone can say all that, or you can just watch the pictures, accept the reality, and admit that all this with USA support, and Passionate attachment to israel and: ROCK SOLID COMMITMENT

[HogTrash]

I have no special love nor hatred for jews or Israel...Our policies for other nations of the world should be based only on what is best for America and Americans.

America should be the only priority of our government representatives...No one gets armed, bombed, foreign aid or even fed unless it benefits the United States.

I have no problem with other nations who adopt this policy and see no reason why they should object to us doing likewise...Survival should be the prime directive.

[chloe]

It's sad if any kids dies.

[SassyLady]

You don't know the real history of the area. Your too young to even remember any of it.

Israel was attacked by Syria, Jordan, Egypt and support from the saudi's and iraq. They defeated them all and took much of the territory they now hold, which was the staging area for the assault on Israel. When the attack was launched it was the intention of the attackers to move into Israel and slaughter everyone there. I was in Vietnam at the time and my brigade was put on alert and standby to go to Israel and help protect the people there. Our gear was packed and the planes were waiting. By day three we were able to stand down because Israel had it under control. It took Israel 6 days to completely decimate the arab attackers, who had no qualms about killing innocents.

If you are so much against innocents being killed, then you should be condemning hamas and hezbollah for their continued launching of rockets into Israel for the purpose of killing innocent people. This in turn causes Israel to have to strike the rocket sites which are always surrounded by women and children. Are you also aware that hamas leaders in the area always keep a lot of children around them as shields against strikes by Israel? Your right there near the heart of things, you should be well aware of what's going on.

Just because your beardless and don't wear a turban doesn't mean your not supportive of the ones that do. Condemnation of Israel is not talking politics. It's just showing your like most of the rest of the world. Personally I think Israel should take an even harder line than they do. Especially since they are not going to get any support from the dark lord in washington.

I am waiting for the coming strike Israel will make against iran, probably this summer. Are you for it or against it? You realize iran wants to make Egypt part of its caliphate. What are your opinions on that?

Awesome post Gaffer! :clap::clap:

[abso]

It's sad if any kids dies.

from what i understood earlier, you dont care, they are just muslims, and you like jews more than muslims..

beside, those kids, are the arabs which you said that they dont have anything to offer to your country, actually yes, they really dont have anything to offer, thats why this is happening, because there is nothing to trade, thats the result, enjoy it, its all done with US weapons.

[abso]

Awesome post Gaffer! :clap::clap:

as i already said as a response to that post, i do condemn Hamas and hizbollah, and i condemn everyone who killes, Israel in palestine, Hamas in israel, ans USA in iraq.

[chloe]

from what i understood earlier, you dont care, they are just muslims, and you like jews more than muslims..

beside, those kids, are the arabs which you said that they dont have anything to offer to your country, actually yes, they really dont have anything to offer, thats why this is happening, because there is nothing to trade, thats the result, enjoy it, its all done with US weapons.

I never said I don't care, I said that the muslims haven't offered the USA any benefits but the Jews have. I care about all kids. I had a muslim friend once he got me high on good afghan weed.:cool:

[abso]

I never said I don't care, I said that the muslims haven't offered the USA any benefits but the Jews have. I care about all kids. I had a muslim friend once he got me high on good afghan weed.:cool:

first congratulation for the weed although i hate smoking and drinking and all that sort of things :D


in this topic, when i first openned it, i wasnt talking about what we like or what we dislike, i was talking about, whats right or whats wrong, you converted the subject into a matter of liking and disliking, and a trade between countries.

so because israel have something to offer, then USA should supports its killing for children, is that what you want to say, if it isnt, then please let me know of what you want to say.

Do you support israilian actions or not ?
thats the whole point of this subject,

Do you think that USA should support that kind of actions or not ?

Do you think that USA should always use its VETO right to protect israel from any security council decision even when israel is wrong ?

[DragonStryk72]

from what i understood earlier, you dont care, they are just muslims, and you like jews more than muslims..

beside, those kids, are the arabs which you said that they dont have anything to offer to your country, actually yes, they really dont have anything to offer, thats why this is happening, because there is nothing to trade, thats the result, enjoy it, its all done with US weapons.

Okay, I do have to defend chloe on this point, the liking jews better than muslims crack was written sarcastically. We use it a lot on this site, and while we can usually tell pretty quickly what's sarcastic, it sort of loses something in translation.

I can;t believe I'm going to agree with Hog, I feel dirty every time it happens, but Israel is not a US state, or even a territory, and frankly, given our history in the region (With us putting both Saddam, and in Afghanistan, the Taliban in power), we need to rethink not only our stance with Israel, but with the world at large. Our government does a few things really well, but outside of that it tends to fuck them into the ground, and the middle east is one of those areas that we hit into this the most.

If Israel wishes to continue getting US funding, troops, weapons, and supplies, then they need to become a US territory, because we spend more on them than we do on Puerto Rico, and at least Puerto Rico let's us have a degree of control, and generally comports itself well.

[chloe]

in this topic, when i first openned it, i wasnt talking about what we like or what we dislike, i was talking about, whats right or whats wrong, you converted the subject into a matter of liking and disliking, and a trade between countries.

so because israel have something to offer, then USA should supports its killing for children, is that what you want to say, if it isnt, then please let me know of what you want to say.

Do you support israilian actions or not ?
thats the whole point of this subject,

Do you think that USA should support that kind of actions or not ?

Do you think that USA should always use its VETO right to protect israel from any security council decision even when israel is wrong ?


I don't support abortion, killing kids or even muslims beating there wives as therapy. Of course in a war situation there are innocent casualties and its always sad no matter what side you are supporting. Yet I notice you never posted any pictures of dead jewish kids that were attacked by muslims or any americans that were killed in 9/11. You present your side and then try to act like its the only side of a picture. America is not ONE religion and so they even have atheists no religion, so yeah it does boil down to what can you offer? Because my understanding is you control oil and try to hijack other nations because of some notion that there land belongs to you. If Israel didn't give america anything I doubt we'd support them so there must be something in it for us. Are you just angry because america capitalizes with other nations who are willing to negotiate?

[abso]

Okay, I do have to defend chloe on this point, the liking jews better than muslims crack was written sarcastically. We use it a lot on this site, and while we can usually tell pretty quickly what's sarcastic, it sort of loses something in translation.

I can;t believe I'm going to agree with Hog, I feel dirty every time it happens, but Israel is not a US state, or even a territory, and frankly, given our history in the region (With us putting both Saddam, and in Afghanistan, the Taliban in power), we need to rethink not only our stance with Israel, but with the world at large. Our government does a few things really well, but outside of that it tends to fuck them into the ground, and the middle east is one of those areas that we hit into this the most.

If Israel wishes to continue getting US funding, troops, weapons, and supplies, then they need to become a US territory, because we spend more on them than we do on Puerto Rico, and at least Puerto Rico let's us have a degree of control, and generally comports itself well.


that is exactly what i am saying from the start, that is what GW farewell speech said, dont get attached to other countries, cuz as soon as you do, you will feel the illusion of common interests with no real common interests that exist, and you will gain others enemies to be your own enemy.

USA should do whats best for its people, not whats best for israilian people, hezbollah never was a threat to USA, palestine, never was a threat to USA, iraq was never a threat to USA, even iran is not a threat to USA, they all have problems with israel not USA.

even 9/11, which involved USA in Afghanistan war, it happened because some muslim extrimist hated USA too much because of its support to israel, so instead of them fighting israel, they started to fight USA, thats what GW pointed at, "Gaining other's enemies", if USA did not support israel, none in the world would ever attack it, have any problem with it.

USA would have saved more than 1000 Billion US$ spent on wars, i dont have an accurate number but i suppose the number maybe over 2000, but anyway, thats alot of money we are talking about, that could have saved USA from the economic crisis which happened, so, USA involvment in too many wars, which was unjustified, and could have been avoided, cuz they were all done for the sake of israel, not USA, that would have saved alot for USA, that money could have supported the hospitals or universities, or could have solved the subprime mortgage crisis.

[HogTrash]

Sorry for taking too much of your time, i even got tired from putting pictures,these is just a small number, while there still hunders and thousands of pictures that you can see.


but dont worry, they were just muslim kids, collateral damedge, they doest count as humans, they are monsters who dont deserve to live side by side with the great israilian state, they stone people to death, so they deserve to die.


some may say this pictures are faked, i would say, go ahead, convince yourself with wutever makes you comfortable, you can lie in your bed, sleep at night peacefully, while saying, israel is a great state, we should support it forever, while arabs are terrorists, they are the roots of all eveil in the world.


anyone can say all that, or you can just watch the pictures, accept the reality, and admit that all this with USA support, and Passionate attachment to israel and: ROCK SOLID COMMITMENTAs I stated above, I have no special love or hatred for Israel, but let's get real here, abso.

The Israelis would like nothing better than to be left alone, but the Muslims refuse to let that happen.

"The poor muslims are only defending themselves from the evil jews" only works on the ignorant liberals...Other Americans are to smart for that nonsense.

You blow jews up and then they blow you up in return...Try beating your RPGs into ploys and feed your children instead, and they will cease to be "collateral damage".

By the way, it's obvious who your sentiments are with regarding terrorism...Instead of martyring yourself for 72 virgins in paradise, why don't you just get yourself a hooker.

[abso]

I don't support abortion, killing kids or even muslims beating there wives as therapy. Of course in a war situation there are innocent casualties and its always sad no matter what side you are supporting. Yet I notice you never posted any pictures of dead jewish kids that were attacked by muslims or any americans that were killed in 9/11. You present your side and then try to act like its the only side of a picture. America is not ONE religion and so they even have atheists no religion, so yeah it does boil down to what can you offer? Because my understanding is you control oil and try to hijack other nations because of some notion that there land belongs to you. If Israel didn't give america anything I doubt we'd support them so there must be something in it for us. Are you just angry because america capitalizes with other nations who are willing to negotiate?


you are just saying "there must be something in it for us"

can you tell me what is this thing ???, israel is supported from your taxes, so you should know what they have to offer in exchange, or do you just believe that they have something to offer, and you dont really care what is it ?

its not a bargain, and even if it is a bargain, would you accept any money to support killing children ???

you say i just present my side, i think thats what a discussion are, i present my side, you present yours !!!!!!!!!!!!, isnt that whats a discussion is all about ???

if i present both sides, then why are you here, for watching only ???

about who died in 9/11, i already said that i condemn that action, and the palestinians are not responsible for it, so USA should not take it out on them.

i already said that i hate osama bin laden, if he really was the one after this operation, or i hate the one who did it who ever he is.

but whatever my opinion about 9/11, or yours, its an old event now, it has been almost 9 years since it happened, but what i am discussing now, is an ongoing event, the killing of palestinians, a day to day terrorism.

[chloe]

you are just saying "there must be something in it for us"

can you tell me what is this thing ???, israel is supported from your taxes, so you should know what they have to offer in exchange, or do you just believe that they have something to offer, and you dont really care what is it ?

its not a bargain, and even if it is a bargain, would you accept any money to support killing children ???

you say i just present my side, i think thats what a discussion are, i present my side, you present yours !!!!!!!!!!!!, isnt that whats a discussion is all about ???

if i present both sides, then why are you here, for watching only ???

about who died in 9/11, i already said that i condemn that action, and the palestinians are not responsible for it, so USA should not take it out on them.

i already said that i hate osama bin laden, if he really was the one after this operation, or i hate the one who did it who ever he is.

but whatever my opinion about 9/11, or yours, its an old event now, it has been almost 9 years since it happened, but what i am discussing now, is an ongoing event, the killing of palestinians, a day to day terrorism.


but you don't comdemn jewish kids dying? I don't know what we get out of it, I just realize we must because if we didn't we wouldn't be there. America is Capitalistic. Perhaps the muslims could cut us a deal and give us some land with oil and gold. I already said innocents die in any war and its sad. How come you never say its sad when Jewish or American kids die? You don't think it sad when any kids dies as a result of any war from any two rivals? Also the other thing is the middle east never wants to negotiate much with America and they don't like America from your own words they hate us so of course we are going to be paranoid about you. You attacked us in 9/11 and killed innocent americans. Maybe you could upload pictures of it.

[abso]

As I stated above, I have no special love or hatred for Israel, but let's get real here, abso.

The Israelis would like nothing better than to be left alone, but the Muslims refuse to let that happen.

"The poor muslims are only defending themselves from the evil jews" only works on the ignorant liberals...Other Americans are to smart for that nonsense.

You blow jews up and then they blow you up in return...Try beating your RPGs into ploys and feed your children instead, and they will cease to be "collateral damage".

By the way, it's obvious who your sentiments are with regarding terrorism...Instead of martyring yourself for 72 virgins in paradise, why don't you just get yourself a hooker.

thanks for your nice words.....

another sarcasm about the suicide bombings, do you even understand how desperate the one have to be to decide to blow himself up, to give up his life, his friends, his family, his dreams, you take that as a joke, but i take is as a devestating thing, that some people have reached such desperate situation where is had none to listen to them, while everyone supporting israel and none cares for the palestinians, they was so devestated that they decided to give up their life in this way, cuz maybe, after they die, someone would ask,

why did they do that ?

but americans are too busy to ask questions, they just make fun of people who get so tired from being ignored, sir, you make a joke out of death, i do not respect that.


you think that the muslims is the one who at fault here, as i recall, the muslims was the one who lived in this land since centuries ago, jews are the ones who came, and drived them out of their land, but thats old story, lets stick with the 1967 borders, which is the international borders.

in my opinion, and as i think, the international law gives each nation the right to defend itself and its land, since 1967, israil has been occupying palestinians land, that is what the international law says, cuz israil borders is at the 1967 borders, but its now occupying more land, so as the law says, anyone, a solider or a israilian citizen, who live in this land, is an intruder to the palestinian land, and they have the right to defend their land.

when israel gets back to 1967 borders, we can have this discussion again if the palestinians attacked them, only then, i will agree that its entirely the palestinians fault, but as long as israel is in their land, they are the one at fault.

[abso]

but you don't comdemn jewish kids dying? I don't know what we get out of it, I just realize we must because if we didn't we wouldn't be there. America is Capitalistic. Perhaps the muslims could cut us a deal and give us some land with oil and gold. I already said innocents die in any war and its sad. How come you never say its sad when Jewish or American kids die? You don't think it sad when any kids dies as a result of any war from any two rivals? Also the other thing is the middle east never wants to negotiate much with America and they don't like America from your own words they hate us so of course we are going to be paranoid about you. You attacked us in 9/11 and killed innocent americans. Maybe you could upload pictures of it.




who is this "You", i dont remember attacking USA, i was just 12 years old backthen, sorry, but i missed the plane.

i never one pointed at america's war on iraq as a "You", i never said "you attacked iraq", please be selective in your words.

its no me, its not egypt, its not KSA, its not UAE who attacked USA, its not even arabs, it was just group of terrorists, as USA says, Osama Bin Laden, although i cant imagine how can it be, that Within a few days, all "19 hijackers" were "identified" and their faces were plastered all over our television screens, maybe it was a conspiracy, or maybe it was binladen, but either way, even if it was binladen, i dont see him living in any arab country, actually he is wanted in every single arab country, Al Qaeda attacked almost all the arab countires, and mostly egypt many times, so we suffered from them too, so why are you telling me that we are the ones who attacked USA, we got attacked by the same organization as you, and the enemy of your enemy is your friend, and we are the enemy or al Qaeda, so you should be labeling us as friends, not the ones who attacked USA.

you say i never condemned the killings in 9/11 ???, i said many times, i condemn all the killings, suicide bombings in israil, or 9/11, or gaza war, or any war, i condemn them all, but its not my place to show you pictures of 9/11, its ur place, although its irrelevant to the subject, the subject is Israel-Palestine, no USA.

you say that 9/11 was a tragedy, i really do agree, but can we discuss how did USA retaliate, it did with two wars:

1- Afghanistan War: More than 15,000 killed
2- Iraq War: More than 850,000 killed

a really good realiation, congratulations.


i never said that i hate americans, or that the arabs hate americans, and as i said before, 9/11 was a terrorism, not an act of war, thos two is much different, when a group of people perform a terrorism operation, its awful, but at the end, they are just a few ppl, you will catch them and kill them, but what will happen when a country, a whole country, performs an act of war which is like terrorism, that the state terrorism, and that is a whole new level of terrorism, when an organized army turns into a terrorism organization, that the problem, when USA puts its VETO right under the israilian disposal, any UN decision which israel doesnt want, USA uses the VETO against it, thats the problem, when you support the terrorist, thats the problem.

i never said i support 9/11, i never said i support killing jewish kids, i never said i support Al Qaeda, i never said i support Osama, i never said i support attacking USA, i condemnd all those actions, including killing any kid or old man or women.

but you said that you support israel, thats the problem

[chloe]

who is this "You", i dont remember attacking USA, i was just 12 years old backthen, sorry, but i missed the plane.

i never one pointed at america's war on iraq as a "You", i never said "you attacked iraq", please be selective in your words.

its no me, its not egypt, its not KSA, its not UAE who attacked USA, its not even arabs, it was just group of terrorists, as USA says, Osama Bin Laden, although i cant imagine how can it be, that Within a few days, all "19 hijackers" were "identified" and their faces were plastered all over our television screens, maybe it was a conspiracy, or maybe it was binladen, but either way, even if it was binladen, i dont see him living in any arab country, actually he is wanted in every single arab country, Al Qaeda attacked almost all the arab countires, and mostly egypt many times, so we suffered from them too, so why are you telling me that we are the ones who attacked USA, we got attacked by the same organization as you, and the enemy of your enemy is your friend, and we are the enemy or al Qaeda, so you should be labeling us as friends, not the ones who attacked USA.

you say i never condemned the killings in 9/11 ???, i said many times, i condemn all the killings, suicide bombings in israil, or 9/11, or gaza war, or any war, i condemn them all, but its not my place to show you pictures of 9/11, its ur place, although its irrelevant to the subject, the subject is Israel-Palestine, no USA.

you say that 9/11 was a tragedy, i really do agree, but can we discuss how did USA retaliate, it did with two wars:

1- Afghanistan War: More than 15,000 killed
2- Iraq War: More than 850,000 killed

a really good realiation, congratulations.


Ok, well then why do you think the USA supports Israel and not Muslim Countries ?

[abso]

Ok, well then why do you think the USA supports Israel and not Muslim Countries ?

thats the question i want you to ask yourself, thats the main subject, the purpose of this topic, is for you, and for everyone to ask yourself, why do we support israel ???

i dont have the answer, you are the one who should have it, you should ask yourself, why in the poll you choosed to support israel forever, whats is israel to you ?, its not your country, so why you like it too much, is it liking israel that makes you support it, or is it hating the arabs, ask yourself that question, and if your answer was hating the arabs, then ask yourself, why would i hate them, what have they done to you ?

[chloe]

thats the question i want you to ask yourself, thats the main subject, the purpose of this topic, is for you, and for everyone to ask yourself, why do we support israel ???

i dont have the answer, you are the one who should have it, you should ask yourself, why in the poll you choosed to support israel forever, whats is israel to you ?, its not your country, so why you like it too much, is it liking israel that makes you support it, or is it hating the arabs, ask yourself that question, and if your answer was hating the arabs, then ask yourself, why would i hate them, what have they done to you ?


Ok I will ask around about it and come back with my thoughts on it, but then you also have to come back with your answer too of why you think USA supports Israel and not muslim countries ok?

[abso]

Ok I will ask around about it and come back with my thoughts on it, but then you also have to come back with your answer too of why you think USA supports Israel and not muslim countries ok?

Sure, i will be ready to answer this question on our next discussion...

[abso]

Ok I will ask around about it and come back with my thoughts on it, but then you also have to come back with your answer too of why you think USA supports Israel and not muslim countries ok?

you have your answer yet ? :salute:

[actsnoblemartin]

ive been to israel, israel would NEVER be safe going back to the 6 7 borders


they dont have to disband the state, they just have to go back to 1967 borders, which is the internationally recognized borders of israel, but they keep occuyping lands of the palastenian people, and when the palastenian people try to resist, they call that terrorism !!!, if someone occupied USA, wouldnt you fight for your land ?