Marriage did not come from the Bible

[chloe]

pEA-jECxpEU

:eek:

[revelarts]

Where to start.
Obviously atheist won't believe this but the 1st to people where created by God and "married" so the 1st marriage did come from God. It was monogamous, an was suppose to say that way from the beginning but people thought they knew better so we get polygamy (among other things) and God allowed it, worked in spite of it, but did not promote it.

Romantic love and marriage has been around for along time but it hasnt been the typical entry to marriage.
the giving of dowries etc, like polygamy, was added later like all the other traditions.

As far as ancient romance goes
excepts of the book Song of Solomon chapter 7.

1 How beautiful your sandaled feet,
O prince's daughter!
Your graceful legs are like jewels,
the work of a craftsman's hands.

2 Your navel is a rounded goblet
that never lacks blended wine.
Your waist is a mound of wheat
encircled by lilies.

3 Your breasts are like two fawns,
twins of a gazelle.

4 Your neck is like an ivory tower.
Your eyes are the pools of Heshbon
by the gate of Bath Rabbim.
Your nose is like the tower of Lebanon
looking toward Damascus.
...

May the wine go straight to my lover,
flowing gently over lips and teeth. [a]

10 I belong to my lover,
and his desire is for me.

11 Come, my lover, let us go to the countryside,
let us spend the night in the villages. [b]

12 Let us go early to the vineyards
to see if the vines have budded,
if their blossoms have opened,
and if the pomegranates are in bloom—
there I will give you my love.


To the issue of the the state sanctioning marriage. is a modern invention in the short life of the U.S.. the church was where people where marriage and the the records typically kept in the family Bible as the official "legal" doc of the marriage. State and local Marriage licenses and laws didn't become wide spread until around the civil war when racist didn't want whites marrying blacks.

that my short response to those guys..

[chloe]

I see no reason for marriage unless you belong to a religion that says you have to or you get some legal benefit that seems to make it worth it to both parties.

[revelarts]

I see no reason for marriage unless you belong to a religion that says you have to or you get some legal benefit that seems to make it worth it to both parties.

You right with out God and his word there's not much reason to do alot of stuff.

but I usually don't like to ask this question but...
"WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN??!!"

seriously though marriage is about family too... and community as well for that matter. Keeps some order. Kids not marrying there siblings and cousins etc to name 1.

[chloe]

You right with out God and his word there's not much reason to do alot of stuff.

but I usually don't like to ask this question but...
"WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN??!!"

seriously though marriage is about family... and community as well for that matter. Keeps some order. Kids not marrying there siblings and cousins etc to name 1.

Well what about the children ? If a soldier dies in war and the woman is left alone with the kids, she raises them without the dad. According to Dr Laura, If you make kids with someone and then that person abandons the family then you shouldn't date or have relations your duty is to your kids.

[crin63]

Well what about the children ? If a soldier dies in war and the woman is left alone with the kids, she raises them without the dad. According to Dr Laura, If you make kids with someone and then that person abandons the family then you shouldn't date or have relations your duty is to your kids.

My personal opinion is that to some degree Dr. Laura is right. The parents first responsibility is to their kids. Does watching daddy or mommy dating a bunch of different people hurt the kids? Maybe. I don't know because all the single parents I know are either waiting until their kids are grown or found that right person at church and handled things properly by courting vs dating, IMHO.

[PostmodernProphet]

there are certainly many things that can be said in support for living together without marriage......for example, if you get tired of living with someone all you have to do is pack your bags and leave.....no committments.....no obligations.....no alimony.......no property rights division......no dower rights......wait, I got confused....were we talking about advantages?....

[actsnoblemartin]

im sorry but i find marriage in this day in age, utterly useless.

congrats however to all those with happy marriages

[-Cp]

Where to start.
Obviously atheist won't believe this but the 1st to people where created by God and "married" so the 1st marriage did come from God.

Please cite where in the Genesis account, it said that Adam and Eve were married.



It was monogamous, an was suppose to say that way from the beginning but people thought they knew better so we get polygamy (among other things) and God allowed it, worked in spite of it, but did not promote it.


Really? What about Soloman? He had hundreds of wives.

[PostmodernProphet]

im sorry but i find marriage in this day in age, utterly useless.

congrats however to all those with happy marriages

My grandparents made it to their 62nd anniversary.....my parents to their 65th.....me, I'm only working on my 34th.....I don't find marriage useless....


Please cite where in the Genesis account, it said that Adam and Eve were married.
Genesis 3
16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a church wedding though.....Probably a Justice of the Peace, so to speak.....

[darin]

Adam and Eve never "Got married'. The literary terms for them had nothing to do with a 'marriage'

[chloe]

What about other cultures? Like Mayans, Japanese, etc etc....My question is did marriage start from the bible or before the bible, Historically is marriage religious in nature, or political?

[actsnoblemartin]

and I believe up into the 70's marriage meant something.

But since the 80's until today especially, I dont find marriage useful, sorry

glad your grandparents made it to 62 and you to 34.

congrats :cheers2:

not for me :salute:


My grandparents made it to their 62nd anniversary.....my parents to their 65th.....me, I'm only working on my 34th.....I don't find marriage useless....


Genesis 3
16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a church wedding though.....Probably a Justice of the Peace, so to speak.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Adam and Eve never "Got married'. The literary terms for them had nothing to do with a 'marriage'

apparently a monogamous relationship, however....


What about other cultures? Like Mayans, Japanese, etc etc....My question is did marriage start from the bible or before the bible, Historically is marriage religious in nature, or political?

if you ever do any genealogical searches you will find that once you get beyond the 1850s you have to search church records for marriages and baptisms in order to obtain any information....there is no such thing as government records beyond that point.....

[darin]

^^^

...and incestuous marriage...and polygamous marriage...What has been defined as "proper" marriage has changed since the beginning of time.

(shrug).

People cling TIGHTLY to their religion when Grace scares them.

[hortysir]

Excuse me while I attempt to inject a hint of logic.....

The root of marriage is marry.


To unite in a close, usually permanent way;To take a husband or wife;
To combine or blend agreeably


United, permanently combined and blended.....

So I would venture a guess that Adam and Eve are/were, in fact, married.

[revelarts]

Please cite where in the Genesis account, it said that Adam and Eve were married.



OK
postmodern gave you 1, here's more..


Genesis 2
22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Genesis 3
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
...
17 And unto Adam he (God) said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife,




I'd say they where married.
Doesn't say soul mate or room mate or friend.






It was monogamous, an was suppose to say that way from the beginning but people thought they knew better so we get polygamy (among other things) and God allowed it, worked in spite of it, but did not promote it.
Really? What about Soloman? He had hundreds of wives.

Yeah, a lot of those guys back then had more than one wife. But, to my knowledge, God never told or encourage any guy to get more than one wife. But, as i said, he did worked with it. But it wasn't the way it was suppose to be, Jesus really settled that question when he answered a question about divorce.



Matthew 19
3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"

4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'[b]? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

7"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"

8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

A couple of thing other things you get from this besides of course God really doesn't like divorce.
I've heard preacher put it this way God made Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve.
and God made Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Eve and Judy and Vanessa and Dawn and Carlita and Karen....

[revelarts]

What about other cultures? Like Mayans, Japanese, etc etc....My question is did marriage start from the bible or before the bible, Historically is marriage religious in nature, or political?

If we understand that Bible is true then the Answer is pretty easy.

God always was...
God made the universe and earth
God made the 1st man and woman husband and wife
the Children followed the pattern and God eventually inspired the Jews (mainly) to write the Bible.

So marriage came before the Bible but the God ordained state of marriage was the very 1st human social arrangement. And God Said it was Good.

the Mayans Japanese etc etc all came from Adam. the Flood and Tower of Babel separated the family of man all over the earth but somehow we all have the tradition of married that was passed down from the beginning as well as a few other common customs and old stories. -Such as a version of the flood story, Also there is some indication that if you drill down far enough into any cultures religion you'll find a mighty monotheistic creator God.
Check out a book call Eternity in there hearts.

[darin]

If we understand that Bible is true then the Answer is pretty easy.

God always was...
God made the universe and earth
God made the 1st man and woman husband and wife
the Children followed the pattern and God eventually inspired the Jews (mainly) to write the Bible.

So marriage came before the Bible but the God ordained state of marriage was the very 1st human social arrangement. And God Said it was Good.

the Mayans Japanese etc etc all came from Adam. the Flood and Tower of Babel separated the family of man all over the earth but somehow we all have the tradition of married that was passed down from the beginning as well as a few other common customs and old stories. -Such as a version of the flood story, Also there is some indication that if you drill down far enough into any cultures religion you'll find a mighty monotheistic creator God.
Check out a book call Eternity in there hearts.


and somehow the tradition of marriage can be vastly different across those cultures...

[revelarts]

and somehow the tradition of marriage can be vastly different across those cultures...

Yes they are, and people who don't like the current customs are making new ones today. Does it really seem that unusual that different traditions would develop in tribes and peoples isolated by 1000s of miles and transform down the millennium DMP?

[PostmodernProphet]

^^^

...and incestuous marriage...and polygamous marriage...What has been defined as "proper" marriage has changed since the beginning of time.



has it?.....the family has always been the most basic structure of society....one man, one woman and their offspring; one man, multiple women and their offspring; perhaps one woman, multiple men and their offspring.....how many societies consisted simply of individuals that never formed a lasting bond with a mate?......taboos such as incest couldn't even exist unless there was the concept of parenthood......how could you even understand the concept of "incest" if a woman slept with seven different men a week.....customs may vary, such as putting a ring on a finger or leaving a leaf full of creamed locusts on a doorstep, but "marriage" is pretty much universal.....

[darin]

has it?.....the family has always been the most basic structure of society....one man, one woman and their offspring; one man, multiple women and their offspring; perhaps one woman, multiple men and their offspring.....how many societies consisted simply of individuals that never formed a lasting bond with a mate?......taboos such as incest couldn't even exist unless there was the concept of parenthood......how could you even understand the concept of "incest" if a woman slept with seven different men a week.....customs may vary, such as putting a ring on a finger or leaving a leaf full of creamed locusts on a doorstep, but "marriage" is pretty much universal.....

Read the old testament much? (shrug) your 'model' is convienient to your position but I doubt you could submit compelling evidence

[Abbey Marie]

im sorry but i find marriage in this day in age, utterly useless.

congrats however to all those with happy marriages

Wouldn't it be ironic if gays finally get to be married, and the rest of us simultaneously decide it's useless? :laugh2:

[PostmodernProphet]

Read the old testament much? (shrug) your 'model' is convienient to your position but I doubt you could submit compelling evidence

yes, why?.....to the contrary, give me an example of a society which DIDN'T have marriage......all the evidence is in our favor, not yours.....

[darin]

yes, why?.....to the contrary, give me an example of a society which DIDN'T have marriage......all the evidence is in our favor, not yours.....


You are the worst 'red herring' guy I can remember.

The issue is the marriage model - now you're pulling 'give me one society which DIDNT have marriage" stupid question out of your ass?

Marriage in the OT: One man, many women.

(shrug). Were those men evil? Were they sinning? Was King David sinning laying with his concubines?

Men has an insatiable need to create sin out of actions they don't understand or don't agree with.

[PostmodernProphet]

You are the worst 'red herring' guy I can remember.

The issue is the marriage model - now you're pulling 'give me one society which DIDNT have marriage" stupid question out of your ass?

Marriage in the OT: One man, many women.

(shrug). Were those men evil? Were they sinning? Was King David sinning laying with his concubines?

Men has an insatiable need to create sin out of actions they don't understand or don't agree with.

wtf?.......the question is, was there marriage in the Bible.....yes, there was, all the way back to Genesis....I clearly stated in my posts, one man, one wife, their offspring; one man, multiple wives, their offspring, I even included one woman, multiple men, their offspring.....they are all marriages.....the tradition of marriage is universal.....so what if there are differences in how the family is structured or what ceremony they use to seal it.......the question wasn't just about monogamous marriage, or just about white dress, black tuxedo and champagne at the wedding party marriage.....it was about the tradition of marriage.....

what does bonding together as a family have to do with "creating sin" or not understanding something?.....

[chloe]

The video is atheists saying that marriage did not originate from the bible. I was asking if japanese and mayan cultures had marriage prior to bible times. I just wondered if marriage originated from the bible. Because there are other religions that don't follow the bible.

[PostmodernProphet]

The video is atheists saying that marriage did not originate from the bible. I was asking if japanese and mayan cultures had marriage prior to bible times. I just wondered if marriage originated from the bible. Because there are other religions that don't follow the bible.

that is an impossible question for a Christian to answer to your satisfaction, since we consider "bible times" to start shortly before the Big Bang......

[chloe]

that is an impossible question for a Christian to answer to your satisfaction, since we consider "bible times" to start shortly before the Big Bang......


Well I didn't know thats why I asked. I am not being smart alick when I ask questions, I ask because I am curious about the topic. It is to my satisfaction the answer you gave thanks for explaining.

[Gaffer]

The real question should be, when did marriage become ritualized? Marriage has existed since men took women as mates. As societies have formed they ritualized things such as marriage, worship, leader choosing, coming into adulthood etc. Multiple wives insured multiple offspring which was important for a society to survive, especially as infant mortality was very high. Marriage was simply a matter of getting a blessing from whatever deity they worshiped.

[PostmodernProphet]

The real question should be, when did marriage become ritualized? Marriage has existed since men took women as mates. As societies have formed they ritualized things such as marriage, worship, leader choosing, coming into adulthood etc. Multiple wives insured multiple offspring which was important for a society to survive, especially as infant mortality was very high. Marriage was simply a matter of getting a blessing from whatever deity they worshiped.

I don't see that as the question at all.....those are merely customs, and the more complex a society becomes the more flexible the customs can be......even within the same religion customs can be all over the map.....A Christian can get married by a priest and have communion be part of the service or get married barefoot on a beach or elope to a Las Vegas marriage chapel......once upon a time the Church didn't consider you married unless the banns had been announced in church a certain number of days prior to the ceremony.....none of those customs "came from the Bible" as the thread title asks......but the concept of marriage certainly has been present as far back as there were men and women......

[DragonStryk72]

What about other cultures? Like Mayans, Japanese, etc etc....My question is did marriage start from the bible or before the bible, Historically is marriage religious in nature, or political?

Ahem, well, depends on how we define marriage, doesn't it? Native Americans certainly had marriage, and never once were they shown a bible prior to our arrival. In fact, every culture on earth has marriage, whether based in the bible or not. Do I have faith in the Bible? Yes, definitely, but it was never said in the bible that God created marriage. Also, a regularly overlooked fact is that.

Permanent single mate pairings between humans have been around pretty much since we came out of the trees, and even likely back before we were cognizant of our own consciousness, but then, honestly, I don't really care where marriage originated, and never have. I like the institution as it is at this point, where both parties are coming together voluntarily, most usually out of abiding love for one another.