Why atheism will replace religion

[chloe]

Atheists are heavily concentrated in economically developed countries, particularly the social democracies of Europe. In underdeveloped countries, there are virtually no atheists. Atheism is thus a peculiarly modern phenomenon. Why do modern conditions produce atheism?

First, as to the distribution of atheism in the world, a clear pattern can be discerned. In sub-Saharan Africa there is almost no atheism (Zuckerman, 2007). Belief in God declines in more developed countries and is concentrated in Europe in countries such as Sweden (64% nonbelievers), Denmark (48%), France (44%) and Germany (42%). In contrast, the incidence of atheism in most sub-Saharan countries is below 1%.

The question of why economically developed countries turn to atheism has been batted around by anthropologists for about eighty years. Anthropologist James Fraser proposed that scientific prediction and control of nature supplants religion as a means of controlling uncertainty in our lives.

Atheists are more likely to be college-educated people who live in cities and they are highly concentrated in the social democracies of Europe. Atheism thus blossoms amid affluence where most people feel economically secure. But why?

It seems that people turn to religion as a salve for the difficulties and uncertainties of their lives. In social democracies, there is less fear and uncertainty about the future because social welfare programs provide a safety net and better health care means that fewer people can expect to die young. People who are less vulnerable to the hostile forces of nature feel more in control of their lives and less in need of religion.

The reasons that churches lose ground in developed countries can be summarized in market terms. First, with better science, and with government safety nets, and smaller families, there is less fear and uncertainty in people's daily lives and hence less of a market for religion. At the same time many alternative products are being offered, such as psychotropic medicines and electronic entertainment that have fewer strings attached and that do not require slavish conformity to unscientific beliefs.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201005/why-atheism-will-replace-religion


So does that mean atheists worship money instead of God?

[avatar4321]

No, it means athiests like to think they are superior to others. But when it all comes down to it, they will not replace religion.

They will either kill each other as they do in communists totalitarian regimes.

Or they will realize the power of God when our economic society collapses. It cant sustain much now and if it doesnt change immediately it will.

[Gaffer]

True atheists don't worship anything. They also don't turn to imaginary deities when they are upset or scared. They deal with what's handed to them. Things happen because of actions, not because of some deity.

The article makes a lot of sense comparing the uneducated to the educated. The more you know the less you believe in gods and magic.

[KarlMarx]

One has to judge each side by its results:

1. True, many people have been killed by those that believe in God over the course of many centuries.
2. However, atheists have made up for lost time by killing off more than 100 million people in the past century. That is far more than than the number killed off by those that believed in God during the same time period.

3. Most of the charitable work that goes on in this world is done by religious groups. That is because all religions teach to love your fellow man.
4. Atheists, on the other hand, cannot make any such claim.

The innate belief of all atheists is that Man is capable of knowing all things and that He can understand those things perfectly. However, this thinking ignores the fact that Man is fallible and limited in His understanding. Belief in a God is one's admission that one cannot know all things and that one cannot know things perfectly. That is why we have faith.

Atheists do not just accept what comes along. They are like all other people, they want things to go their way, too. Running to God is not an act of weakness.. sometimes things happen that are too much for us to bear... for instance, I wonder how an atheist would handle being stuck in the Haiti earthquake a few months ago.

That's how I see it.

[-Cp]

No such a thing as an Atheist on an airplane that's in a nose-dive straight towards the ground - just sayin'...

[Missileman]

No such a thing as an Atheist on an airplane that's in a nose-dive straight towards the ground - just sayin'...

Yet the Christians are just as dead as the atheists after impact...just sayin'.

[Missileman]

One has to judge each side by its results:

1. True, many people have been killed by those that believe in God over the course of many centuries.

Not just by those that believe in a god, but for the sake of and in the name of their god. Given the pile of dead, one of two things is true, neither of which speaks well for the religious...either there was no god to intervene, or there is a god and it sanctioned the killings through inaction.



2. However, atheists have made up for lost time by killing off more than 100 million people in the past century. That is far more than than the number killed off by those that believed in God during the same time period.


The killings were motivated by politics, not religion. You can no more attribute the killings by Stalin, Mao, etc to atheism than you can attribute Hitler's and Germany's actions to Christianity.

[avatar4321]

Yet the Christians are just as dead as the atheists after impact...just sayin'.

And both are just as alive in the Resurrection.

[Missileman]

And both are just as alive in the Resurrection.

Atheists are resurrected? :laugh2:

[PostmodernProphet]

Yet the Christians are just as dead as the atheists after impact...just sayin'.

dang, beaten to the punch by avatar....

[PostmodernProphet]

Atheists are resurrected? :laugh2:

uh, yes....they are....everyone is.....

[chloe]

I guess we don't know what happens for sure. Maybe there is no God.

[avatar4321]

Atheists are resurrected? :laugh2:

Yes. Everyone is resurrected.

[PostmodernProphet]

I guess we don't know what happens for sure. Maybe there is no God.

we will all find out eventually.....

[avatar4321]

I guess we don't know what happens for sure. Maybe there is no God.

There is a simple way to find out.

[Missileman]

There is a simple way to find out.

You first...and send word back. If we don't hear from you we'll know you were full of beans.

[Missileman]

Yes. Everyone is resurrected.

I don't believe that's biblically supported is it?

[chloe]

There is a simple way to find out.

Do you mean kill myself ?

[PostmodernProphet]

You first...and send word back. If we don't hear from you we'll know you were full of beans.

whether I'm first or you are, we both will get an answer.....

[PostmodernProphet]

I don't believe that's biblically supported is it?

uh, yeah.....judgment day?...the dead shall rise?.......eternity?.........heaven/hell?.....any of this starting to sound familiar?

[KarlMarx]

Not just by those that believe in a god, but for the sake of and in the name of their god. Given the pile of dead, one of two things is true, neither of which speaks well for the religious...either there was no god to intervene, or there is a god and it sanctioned the killings through inaction.




The killings were motivated by politics, not religion. You can no more attribute the killings by Stalin, Mao, etc to atheism than you can attribute Hitler's and Germany's actions to Christianity.

This is a nice trick. First you attribute that any killing by any person who believes in God is motivated by religion. Then, you try to attribute that any killing by atheists is for political reasons or for something else. Well, if atheists don't belive in God, then they are killing for a reason other than God. They've replaced God with the State, or something else... that's their God.... Regardless, atheists have killed many more people in the course of a shorter timespan that those that belive in God... that's the simple truth.. and it's damning.

[Missileman]

This is a nice trick. First you attribute that any killing by any person who believes in God is motivated by religion. Then, you try to attribute that any killing by atheists is for political reasons or for something else. Well, if atheists don't belive in God, then they are killing for a reason other than God. They've replaced God with the State, or something else... that's their God.... Regardless, atheists have killed many more people in the course of a shorter timespan that those that belive in God... that's the simple truth.. and it's damning.

I never said any such thing. I was of course speaking of killings that were religiously motivated and it was extremely clear in what I wrote that I was. The only trick is you trying to construct a strawman.

However, it is funny that you have a problem with what you mis-perceived (or mis-represented) as my attributing killings by those who believe in god to be motivated by their religion when you had(and continue to have) no problem attributing the killings by atheists to their lack of religion.

[KarlMarx]

I never said any such thing.
Yes, it seems you did...

Regarding the deaths due to religion, you said "Not just by those that believe in a god, but for the sake of and in the name of their god. "

Then regarding the deaths due to atheists you said... "The killings were motivated by politics, not religion. "



However, it is funny that you have a problem with what you mis-perceived (or mis-represented) as my attributing killings by those who believe in god to be motivated by their religion when you had(and continue to have) no problem attributing the killings by atheists to their lack of religion.
Again, it seems to me that you did indeed blame those killings on those who were religiously motivated.

[OldMercsRule]

True atheists don't worship anything.

Sure they do, (at least some of them clearly do).

Maybe it is Big Nanny Gubment.

Maybe it is "science" like the religion of "evolution"; maybe they see themselves as the top of the food chain worthy of worship, (Mao, Stalin, Hitler et al).

"True Atheists", (whatever that means), are just very good at projecting onto others who admit they believe in or accept a higher power, (and deflecting their worship with their criticism of others). ;)


They also don't turn to imaginary deities when they are upset or scared.

Deites aren't likely "imaginary" to believers, (unless you can read minds, [another common trait I have observed attributable to many "Atheists").


They deal with what's handed to them.

Hard to know without superior mind reading skills. Many Atheists seem ta get wobbly in real rough seas, (observed from their outward actions).


Things happen because of actions, not because of some deity.

"Actions" can't possibly be caused by some "Diety" yer sayin'? :D


The article makes a lot of sense comparing the uneducated to the educated.

Atheists do seem ta look down their noses at others who have positions different then theirs, and many times question their intelligence, (at least many Atheists seem to do that).

Another one of those traits that can be objectively observed, (don't have ta read minds). ;)


The more you know the less you believe in gods and magic.

You really must be an ace mind reader to be able to judge anynomous folks all over the world and on the internet that you don't know eh?

Hmmmmmm I say. :)

[Missileman]

Yes, it seems you did...

Regarding the deaths due to religion, you said "Not just by those that believe in a god, but for the sake of and in the name of their god. "

Then regarding the deaths due to atheists you said... "The killings were motivated by politics, not religion. "

You've just stated a recognition of my argument. There have undeniably been killings motivated by religion I've yet to see any evidence to suggest that there have been killings motivated by atheism.

[KarlMarx]

You've just stated a recognition of my argument. There have undeniably been killings motivated by religion I've yet to see any evidence to suggest that there have been killings motivated by atheism.

The problem is that "religion" has a god, while "atheism" does not have a god, per se... instead, Man or the State is God... just because you don't believe in a supernatural being does not mean you haven't found a substitute....

and oh yes, atheists have oppressed people who believe in God in the name of atheism... Tibet, for instance... also, the Church in the Soviet Union was oppressed for years by the Soviets, as they are in North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba and other countries...

I'm sure you're going to try to spin these things as being something other than what they are... the suppression of people's belief in God in the name of atheism.

[Gaffer]

Sure they do, (at least some of them clearly do).

Maybe it is Big Nanny Gubment.

Maybe it is "science" like the religion of "evolution"; maybe they see themselves as the top of the food chain worthy of worship, (Mao, Stalin, Hitler et al).

"True Atheists", (whatever that means), are just very good at projecting onto others who admit they believe in or accept a higher power, (and deflecting their worship with their criticism of others). ;)



Deites aren't likely "imaginary" to believers, (unless you can read minds, [another common trait I have observed attributable to many "Atheists").



Hard to know without superior mind reading skills. Many Atheists seem ta get wobbly in real rough seas, (observed from their outward actions).



"Actions" can't possibly be caused by some "Diety" yer sayin'? :D



Atheists do seem ta look down their noses at others who have positions different then theirs, and many times question their intelligence, (at least many Atheists seem to do that).

Another one of those traits that can be objectively observed, (don't have ta read minds). ;)



You really must be an ace mind reader to be able to judge anynomous folks all over the world and on the internet that you don't know eh?

Hmmmmmm I say. :)

Your real quick to lump all atheists into one big group and condemn them all as liberals who worship big government,science and evolution.

Deities are imaginary period. If you believe in them then they are part of your imagination.

Mind reading is not a part of atheism. It's another imaginary trait silly believers use to try to belittle the atheists. And I most often see the believers looking down their noses at the non-believers.

Other than quoting scriptures there is no proof of any sort of deity.

Religion is all about intimidation and control. It established rules to live by. Some are good and some are bad. The good usually are based on common sense. Be nice to your fellow man, don't steal or lie, that sort of thing. It sets guidelines. The bad are usually for controlling the population, you must worship at a given time and all other gods are evil etc. Liberals worship the government, it sets rules and regulations, which most often come from religious scriptures. But there is nothing like the threat of eternal damnation to keep people in line.

[HogTrash]

Not just by those that believe in a god, but for the sake of and in the name of their god. Given the pile of dead, one of two things is true, neither of which speaks well for the religious...either there was no god to intervene, or there is a god and it sanctioned the killings through inaction.The dominating factor in religion is not the safety or welfare of the physical body, but the continuation of the immortal spirit.


The killings were motivated by politics, not religion.Ohhh, well that explains it!...That makes it perfectly acceptable. :slap:


You can no more attribute the killings by Stalin, Mao, etc to atheism than you can attribute Hitler's and Germany's actions to Christianity.The athiest belief that there are no consequencies for their earthly actions, eliminates alot of tabboos that prevent many of us from commiting some horrible atrocities, such as murdering millions of human beings.

Disclaimer - My opinions are not based on religion as I have none, although I do consider myself a spiritial person.

[bullypulpit]

Atheists are heavily concentrated in economically developed countries, particularly the social democracies of Europe. In underdeveloped countries, there are virtually no atheists. Atheism is thus a peculiarly modern phenomenon. Why do modern conditions produce atheism?

First, as to the distribution of atheism in the world, a clear pattern can be discerned. In sub-Saharan Africa there is almost no atheism (Zuckerman, 2007). Belief in God declines in more developed countries and is concentrated in Europe in countries such as Sweden (64% nonbelievers), Denmark (48%), France (44%) and Germany (42%). In contrast, the incidence of atheism in most sub-Saharan countries is below 1%.

The question of why economically developed countries turn to atheism has been batted around by anthropologists for about eighty years. Anthropologist James Fraser proposed that scientific prediction and control of nature supplants religion as a means of controlling uncertainty in our lives.

Atheists are more likely to be college-educated people who live in cities and they are highly concentrated in the social democracies of Europe. Atheism thus blossoms amid affluence where most people feel economically secure. But why?

It seems that people turn to religion as a salve for the difficulties and uncertainties of their lives. In social democracies, there is less fear and uncertainty about the future because social welfare programs provide a safety net and better health care means that fewer people can expect to die young. People who are less vulnerable to the hostile forces of nature feel more in control of their lives and less in need of religion.

The reasons that churches lose ground in developed countries can be summarized in market terms. First, with better science, and with government safety nets, and smaller families, there is less fear and uncertainty in people's daily lives and hence less of a market for religion. At the same time many alternative products are being offered, such as psychotropic medicines and electronic entertainment that have fewer strings attached and that do not require slavish conformity to unscientific beliefs.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201005/why-atheism-will-replace-religion


So does that mean atheists worship money instead of God?

No...It just means that a rational society is essential to human prosperity and well being. And, even though such a society has yet to be fully realized, rationality does have a much greater influence in industrialized societies than it does in those nations which are governed by theocracies and dictatorships.

[Missileman]

The problem is that "religion" has a god, while "atheism" does not have a god, per se... instead, Man or the State is God... just because you don't believe in a supernatural being does not mean you haven't found a substitute....

I don't worship anything...sorry to burst your bubble.


and oh yes, atheists have oppressed people who believe in God in the name of atheism... Tibet, for instance... also, the Church in the Soviet Union was oppressed for years by the Soviets, as they are in North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba and other countries...

I'm sure you're going to try to spin these things as being something other than what they are... the suppression of people's belief in God in the name of atheism.

They suppress belief in god in furtherance of communism or socialism, not in furtherance of atheism, and their motivation is political, not religious...no spin required.

[Missileman]

The dominating factor in religion is not the safety or welfare of the physical body, but the continuation of the immortal spirit.

Is this supposed to be some lame excuse for why killing in the name of one's deity is acceptable?


Ohhh, well that explains it!...That makes it perfectly acceptable. :slap:

I never said it was. :slap::slap:


The athiest belief that there are no consequencies for their earthly actions, eliminates alot of tabboos that prevent many of us from commiting some horrible atrocities, such as murdering millions of human beings.

:laugh2: GMAFB! You heard it here first folks...all atheists are criminals because they have no god to fear. People who say they believe in "post-earthly" consequences never steal, or rape, or murder, etc. They don't even have pre-marital sex...right? What a maroon!

[krisy]

Your real quick to lump all atheists into one big group and condemn them all as liberals who worship big government,science and evolution.

Deities are imaginary period. If you believe in them then they are part of your imagination.

Mind reading is not a part of atheism. It's another imaginary trait silly believers use to try to belittle the atheists. And I most often see the believers looking down their noses at the non-believers.

Other than quoting scriptures there is no proof of any sort of deity.

Religion is all about intimidation and control. It established rules to live by. Some are good and some are bad. The good usually are based on common sense. Be nice to your fellow man, don't steal or lie, that sort of thing. It sets guidelines. The bad are usually for controlling the population, you must worship at a given time and all other gods are evil etc. Liberals worship the government, it sets rules and regulations, which most often come from religious scriptures. But there is nothing like the threat of eternal damnation to keep people in line.

gaffer...I gotta disagree big time. For some reason,non believers seem to think we believers sit in church every Sunday and listen to the preacher telling us we are going to hell if we don't believe or live a perfect life. I have never heard that in church. What it has done for me is teach compassion,forgiveness,and basically help guide us through the trials of modern life. We have never been pounded for money. Always taught the love of Christ.

Is it possible that some non belivers have clumped ALL religeons into one? The accusations I read in some of these posts are pretty silly. Eternal damnation has NEVER been reason for my belief in Christ. Like someone said earlier,maybe non believers believe a little too much in science,which is not perfect.

Bottom line,I think its a little degrading to call my God "imaginary" . You all say we can't prove he exists. That is what faith is about. I have known a few athiests whose lives have left little to be desired because of a lack of faith and hope. Can non believers prove that God doesn't exist?

[chloe]

Yeah some atheists seem smug in there atheism and some christians seem self righteous in there christianity. I don't have a religion and for a long time I have believed in God but lately I started thinking maybe there is no God. I think religious and non religious people have the right to practice there beliefs, I notice that both of those organized groups tend to attract some narrowminded types of people.

[Gaffer]

gaffer...I gotta disagree big time. For some reason,non believers seem to think we believers sit in church every Sunday and listen to the preacher telling us we are going to hell if we don't believe or live a perfect life. I have never heard that in church. What it has done for me is teach compassion,forgiveness,and basically help guide us through the trials of modern life. We have never been pounded for money. Always taught the love of Christ.

Is it possible that some non belivers have clumped ALL religeons into one? The accusations I read in some of these posts are pretty silly. Eternal damnation has NEVER been reason for my belief in Christ. Like someone said earlier,maybe non believers believe a little too much in science,which is not perfect.

Bottom line,I think its a little degrading to call my God "imaginary" . You all say we can't prove he exists. That is what faith is about. I have known a few athiests whose lives have left little to be desired because of a lack of faith and hope. Can non believers prove that God doesn't exist?

I was referring to religion in general, covering all religions. It would take too long to break down each one and go through all the fine points. Some of these posters just lump all atheists together and I was responding to them in the same way.

Compassion and forgiveness are good traits and common sense for a society to exist. A divine being is not necessary for someone to feel that way. It is a source of comfort for someone to think there is a benevolent being looking after them. Unlike you, many are showing their compassion because they expect a reward in the after life. I don't want to sound degrading, that's why I don't usually get into these threads. I'm looking to come over for your birthday and we can have a long discussion about it all then.

[OldMercsRule]

Your real quick to lump all atheists into one big group

Hmmmmmm...... You sure don't read written werds so well eh? N' ya surely can't read me simple mind neither.

Where did you read that I said that??? Please find a quote so I can see yer not jus' tryin' ta read minds n' makin' up chit as ya go. ;)

Here is what I said in reply to your broad characterization about what you called "true" Atheists:


Originally Posted by Gaffer
True atheists don't worship anything.


Sure they do, (at least some of them clearly do).

Maybe it is Big Nanny Gubment.

Maybe it is "science" like the religion of "evolution"; maybe they see themselves as the top of the food chain worthy of worship, (Mao, Stalin, Hitler et al).

"True Atheists", (whatever that means), are just very good at projecting onto others who admit they believe in or accept a higher power, (and deflecting their worship with their criticism of others).



and condemn them all as liberals who worship big government,science and evolution.

Where did I call em "ALL", (yer werd), "Liberals"? Can you produce a quote so I can see where ya get this chit?


Deities are imaginary period. If you believe in them then they are part of your imagination.

That is yer opinion, n' like many body parts: everybody has one. ;)


Mind reading is not a part of atheism.

Many Atheists seem ta THINK they can read minds, (I'm not cornvinced any of 'em can), and you sure seem ta think you can do it or yer piss poor at reading my exact werds.

Then again maybe you can produce those quotes that I asked for n' show me yer not jus pullin' this chit outa yer arse. :eek:


It's another imaginary trait silly believers use to try to belittle the atheists.

Nope. I'm not usin' it to "belittle" anyone.

I'm pointing out that yer, (GAFFER's), debate style assumes you can read things that flat out have not been said so it seems ta me yer tryin' ta read someone's mind. I'd give it up if I were you and stick to reading EXACT werds: not minds. You not cuttin' it as a mind reader, (BTW). :eek:


And I most often see the believers looking down their noses at the non-believers.

N' callin' a group of folks "silly" n' stoooopid isn't lookin' down yer long snarky nose eh? Hmmmmmmmmmm....... that's called "projection", (Liberals use that tactic too), n' I'm not sayin' you or all Atheists are Liberals. Never said that n' ya can't read me mind.


Other than quoting scriptures there is no proof of any sort of deity.

Who said a Diety was proven? Ya readin' minds n' makein' up more chit again? My belief in Jesus Christ is clearly faith based, I've never said I could prove Christ's existance to anyone.


Religion is all about intimidation and control.

Mankind through out history has used organized religion to intimidate and corntrol, as well as the lack of religion.

The Atheist Godless Commies killed more of mankind in absolute hard numbers and as a percentage of all humans in existance since Marx n' Engel's Das Kapital in 1867 then religion ever did, n' Lord knows Joe Stalin n' Chairman Mao were into central corntrol n' a wee bit of intimidation. Snark snark........

Intimidation and corntrol, (which is what mankind, [not God], tends to do), has nothin' ta do with my faith in Christ which is totally voluntary.


It established rules to live by. Some are good and some are bad. The good usually are based on common sense. Be nice to your fellow man, don't steal or lie, that sort of thing. It sets guidelines. The bad are usually for controlling the population, you must worship at a given time and all other gods are evil etc.

Methinks some religion, (especially Christianity), is a very positive and neccessary part of our culture. There is good and bad in most things: Gaffer.


Liberals worship the government, it sets rules and regulations, which most often come from religious scriptures.

Yep most Liberals do worship Nanny Gubment n' openly hate Christians, n' are skeeeered of Muslims. They kinda admire Stalin, Chairman Mao, Castro n' such too, (ya don't think the Commies were Christians do ya)? BTW, did ya know Hitler was an Atheist toooooo? :eek:

In a Judeo Christian Country; Secular laws are modeled after cultural norms which flow from the Judeo Christian culture. Shockin' ain't it? :D:D


But there is nothing like the threat of eternal damnation to keep people in line.

Don't think it means much to a "true" Atheist there: Sport!! N' it sure didn't mean sooooo much to Commie or Facist masters of past history or there wouldn't have been all the vicious brutality in human history. It only means somethin' to those of us who believe in a God. Another shockin' fact eh???? :D:D

[bullypulpit]

The dominating factor in religion is not the safety or welfare of the physical body, but the continuation of the immortal spirit.

And your proof of the existence of this "immortal spirit" is...? Never mind that concern for the consequences to this "immortal spirit" tends to ignore the consequences to this life in this world. This, in turn, frees one to commit any atrocity so long as it is done in the name of one's favorite deity and bringing the dogma to the unwashed and unshriven heathen. History is littered with examples, and corpses, proving this.


Ohhh, well that explains it!...That makes it perfectly acceptable. :slap:

No...it doesn't.


The athiest belief that there are no consequencies for their earthly actions, eliminates alot of tabboos that prevent many of us from commiting some horrible atrocities, such as murdering millions of human beings.

For our morals and ethic to have any real meaning, they MUST be firmly rooted in their consequences to this human life, in this world. Anything else is simply arbitrary imposition of some so-called leader's will disguised in the tattered fabric of a god-head...Doesn't matter if the god-head is a deity as in a theocracy or the state as in a dictatorship.


Disclaimer - My opinions are not based on religion as I have none, although I do consider myself a spiritial person.

No, you're not. You simply mouth that phrase in attempt to hide your own chauvinism and ignorance.

[KarlMarx]

They suppress belief in god in furtherance of communism or socialism, not in furtherance of atheism, and their motivation is political, not religious...no spin required.
Marx wrote that religion was the opiate of the masses. Communists tend to be atheists. Communism is atheistic, furthering the cause of Communism furthers the cause of atheism by default.