La Raza - scarier than Islam Extremists

[SassyLady]

UCLA Professor making speech that LA is stolen, occupied Mexico and that La Raza is going to start a revolution.

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[hortysir]

Jump, frog
:poke:

[gabosaurus]

La Raza is the Spanish speaking Tea Party movement. Both say they want to take back their country. Both cater to a very small portion of the population. Both are doomed to failure.

[SassyLady]

La Raza is the Spanish speaking Tea Party movement. Both say they want to take back their country. Both cater to a very small portion of the population. Both are doomed to failure.

Boring! :slap:

Guess you didn't hear what happened in Utah. :laugh2::laugh2:

[HogTrash]

I agree...The looming amnesty for the latin invaders makes them a much more serious threat to the United States than any Islamic terrorist organization ever has.

While the terrorists threaten the destruction of property and murder of American citizens, the invaders from south of the border threaten to destroy our way of life.

[HogTrash]

La Raza is the Spanish speaking Tea Party movement.Sort of.


Both say they want to take back their country.True.


Both cater to a very small portion of the population.False.


Both are doomed to failure.Hopefully, only one.

[sybarite]

La Raza is the Spanish speaking Tea Party movement. Both say they want to take back their country. Both cater to a very small portion of the population. Both are doomed to failure.

Actually the Tea Party is gaining strength. Even CNN agrees, quote:

"The American Tea Party is a movement that is protesting the current economic policies. They are growing quickly in numbers and grassroots America is rising up and demanding that the Federal government stops the never-ending waste."

This is what has happened since January;

ABC World News with Diane Sawyer:

A political movement is sweeping the country, and taking politicians down.
The group behind heated town hall meetings is becoming a real political force.

The most recent victim of "tea party" activists was Florida Republican Jim Greer, who resigned from as state party chairman this week, in part because of the activists' objections to his alliance with Florida's Republican governor, Charlie Crist, who is running for the U.S. Senate. The activistsare vocally supporting Crist's opponent -- a young, outspoken conservative, Marco Rubio -- and some believe the tea party group may bring down Crist, too.

There's a "Big 'Ol T.E.A. Party" Coming to Washington" As you know, there is a great debate in our party on the direction, moderates versus conservatives," Greer told Talking Points Memo. "Over the last six months there has been a very vocal group within our party that has become very active in seeking an effort to oust me as chairman."

Tea party activists in California may cause the first woman to lead a Fortune 500 company to lose her bid for the U.S. Senate because she's not conservative enough.

And in Kentucky, Rand Paul, the son of a former presidential candidate Ron Paul, is riding the tea party wave.

Next week, Eric Odom, the man most often regarded as the founder of the tea party movement, is taking a crew of tea party followers to Massachusetts, sensing the Democrat running for Ted Kennedy's old seat, Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley, might be vulnerable.

"Every group that organized rallies last year is now looking to be involved in the electoral process," Odom said.

So-called "tea party patriots" are members of a political movement sweeping America whose core beliefs center around fiscal responsibility, constitutionally limited government and free markets.

"I think Republicans definitely dismiss this at their peril. I also think Democrats, by trying to marginalize it, underestimate the anger out there," political analyst Matthew Dowd said.

The movement appears to be gaining momentum, thanks in part to members like Danita Kilcullen, a Florida military mom who has been organizing gatherings every weekend for 46 weeks and posting video on YouTube.

"We just don't give up. We're unrelenting," Kilcullen said. "The tea parties across America are going to have a great deal to say about who is in office."
_____________________
This quote by Matthew Dowd says it all. "I also think Democrats, by trying to marginalize it, underestimate the anger out there," political analyst Matthew Dowd said.

The liberals living in, "Let's live off of the taxpayer, land," don't realize how fed up the taxpayers are by all of the entitlements their hard earned dollars are being wasted on. They had better wake up fast because the tea is starting to boil!!

[cat slave]

La Raza is the Spanish speaking Tea Party movement. Both say they want to take back their country. Both cater to a very small portion of the population. Both are doomed to failure.

La Raza.....THE Race! Says it all.

[cat slave]

UCLA Professor making speech that LA is stolen, occupied Mexico and that La Raza is going to start a revolution.

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Can you believe that shit?

Us white, capitalists, emperialist oppressors are responsible
for all the suffering of the world!

Want a revolution? Im ready and willing?

[Agnapostate]

This video has been removed for its terms of use violation.

What is "La Raza"?

[SassyLady]

Ever heard of Google .... look it up.

[Agnapostate]

Ever heard of Google .... look it up.

I was interested in your particular definition, not your disrespect. I guess this marks the last time I'll be asking you for information.

[SassyLady]

I was interested in your particular definition, not your disrespect. I guess this marks the last time I'll be asking you for information.

We've had this discussion before and I grew bored with the debate. Look it up if you really want to know what we talked about.

[Agnapostate]

We've had this discussion before and I grew bored with the debate. Look it up if you really want to know what we talked about.

I guess I'll have to assume that you don't actually know what "La Raza" is. Where is the term from and what does it mean? Who is being referred to in this context and what are its implications?

[SassyLady]

I guess I'll have to assume that you don't actually know what "La Raza" is. Where is the term from and what does it mean? Who is being referred to in this context and what are its implications?

You can assume anything you want Aggie .... as I said, we've debated and your arguments were boring. Watch the video and tell me there is no La Raza. If you can prove the group does not exist, then I might come back and play with you.

[Agnapostate]

You can assume anything you want Aggie .... as I said, we've debated and your arguments were boring. Watch the video and tell me there is no La Raza. If you can prove the group does not exist, then I might come back and play with you.

Perhaps you missed something:


This video has been removed due to terms of use violation.

I think it's an honor to have a crone tell me that I'm boring. Personally, I think it's more a matter of me being able to crush everyone on this board like crunchy bugs in an argument. :)

[SassyLady]

Perhaps you missed something:



I think it's an honor to have a crone tell me that I'm boring. Personally, I think it's more a matter of me being able to crush everyone on this board like crunchy bugs in an argument. :)

OK....now I'm not bored anymore. Now I'm amused...:laugh:

[Agnapostate]

OK....now I'm not bored anymore. Now I'm amused...:laugh:

Laughter is the spice of life and the realm when Ussen calls us beyond...now, didn't you have some kind of argument you wanted to make, sweetie? ;)

[SassyLady]

Laughter is the spice of life and the realm when Ussen calls us beyond...now, didn't you have some kind of argument you wanted to make, sweetie? ;)

Just for fun....again.....



So with the encouragement of the U.S. government and with the financial support of major U.S. corporations and foundations, LULAC, MALDEF, MEChA/MEXA, and La Raza, pillars of the radical 'Hispanic' lobby, successfully and aggressively promote hatred of the history, identity, culture, language, and laws of the United States.

more here ... http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc1101/article_912.shtml (Part III)

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc1101/article_911.shtml (Part II)

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc1101/article_910.shtml (Part I)

about the author:

Joseph Fallon is a frequent contributor to The Social Contract. He is a published researcher and author on topics of immigration and American demography.


I think you'll find all the information you need in this article. Be sure to read the entire article so you don't have to ask me any more questions.

Nite sweetie.

[Agnapostate]

Just for fun....again.....

I think you'll find all the information you need in this article. Be sure to read the entire article so you don't have to ask me any more questions.

Nite sweetie.

Yay! Fourth time's the charm, and I was just about run the fuck through, since I don't carry a dog whistle with me. Well, thanks very much for empowering me with the ability to distinguish the National Council of La Raza from the La Raza Unida Party or 97.9 La Raza, which is a radio station. So remind me, what's the problem again? Call upon your sociological wisdom to inform a novice like me who's starting "the revolution." :laugh:

[SassyLady]

Yay! Fourth time's the charm, and I was just about run the fuck through, since I don't carry a dog whistle with me. Well, thanks very much for empowering me with the ability to distinguish the National Council of La Raza from the La Raza Unida Party or 97.9 La Raza, which is a radio station. So remind me, what's the problem again? Call upon your sociological wisdom to inform a novice like me who's starting "the revolution." :laugh:

You're smart enough to figure it out Aggie...read the article and let me know what you agree/disagree with. That would be a good starting point. And, I mean all three parts of the article to get the full picture.

And, playing "dumb" or "novice" does not become you.

[Agnapostate]

You're smart enough to figure it out Aggie...read the article and let me know what you agree/disagree with. That would be a good starting point. And, I mean all three parts of the article to get the full picture.

And, playing "dumb" or "novice" does not become you.

So you're sticking around just for me; isn't that cute? Wellup...you'll have to post actual arguments to be refuted. What you cited was a summary of various mundane tidbits, only one section of which concerned "La Raza."

[SassyLady]

So you're sticking around just for me; isn't that cute? Wellup...you'll have to post actual arguments to be refuted. What you cited was a summary of various mundane tidbits, only one section of which concerned "La Raza."

Nope ... not posting an argument for you. You wanted to debate ... you start...and obviously you didn't read the articles.

Blase' again.

:rolleyes:

[Agnapostate]

Nope ... not posting an argument for you. You wanted to debate ... you start...and obviously you didn't read the articles.

Blase' again.

:rolleyes:

No worries; you would just lose again, lose the way that these people (http://www.city-data.com/forum/illegal-immigration/970712-public-opinion-mexico-u-s-immigration.html) did. I say; anyone on this forum can challenge me to a debate on any political topic of interest to them, and I'll win. It's just the way things are, and my gradually increasing irritation with idiocy has made me arrogant...if it's Ussen's way. :dunno:

[SassyLady]

No worries; you would just lose again, lose the way that these people (http://www.city-data.com/forum/illegal-immigration/970712-public-opinion-mexico-u-s-immigration.html) did. I say; anyone on this forum can challenge me to a debate on any political topic of interest to them, and I'll win. It's just the way things are, and my gradually increasing irritation with idiocy has made me arrogant...if it's Ussen's way. :dunno:



Yawn..........

[Agnapostate]

Yawn..........

You know, superficial male as I am, it's just my instinct to be less tolerant of you after you deflated your funbags. :salute:feel free to report me; i'd love to be able to tell the story of being banned from a board or two for being a "pedophile" and being banned for another for lecherously harassing older women.

[SassyLady]

You know, superficial male as I am, it's just my instinct to be less tolerant of you after you deflated your funbags. :salute:feel free to report me; i'd love to be able to tell the story of being banned from a board or two for being a "pedophile" and being banned for another for lecherously harassing older women.

I have never reported anyone Aggie...you've managed to get yourself into trouble enough that everyone watches you ... so, no need to report you.

And, yes, I know that you've been banned from other sites ... I've read some of your stuff over the years ... and I think it's pretty interesting that the little message at the end of your post isn't showing up in this quote about getting banned for being pedophile. What's the matter, afraid to let the world know what you really said so you had to play games with the text again.

Coward.

[SassyLady]

Guess you might be getting that timeout you need.

For those of you who might have missed it - here's the rest of Aggie's quote:

feel free to report me; i'd love to be able to tell the story of being banned from a board or two for being a "pedophile" and being banned for another for lecherously harassing older women

[Agnapostate]

It's as visible as it ever was. It's just that advanced age usually brings declining vision with it. :dunno:

[Agnapostate]

So let's see about skurty's claims about the indispensable value of personal experience, cited because she lacks the ability to refer to general rules for the majority of people as opposed to her arrogant presumptions in everything following her own example.

On the one hand we have her, sitting in her little Lancaster or Temecula style humble abode, surrounded by fellow WASP types, sipping tea and gasping in alarm at Sean Hannity's ever-so-informative exposition on the evil Latin types and their secret conspiracy to take over. On the other hand we have me, who actually lives in an urban environment dominated by ethnic minorities, and chose to attend an actual MEChA meeting at East Los Angeles College (ELAC), where I am a student, to see if these claims are true, and saw and heard no discussion of world domination. Even aside from her utter inability to provide actual arguments in this thread, who has the right street cred? :laugh:

[Missileman]

no discussion of world domination. Even aside from her utter inability to provide actual arguments in this thread, who has the right street cred? :laugh:

World domination by Mexico? That's HILARIOUS!

[Agnapostate]

World domination by Mexico? That's HILARIOUS!

Yea, it seemed like Protocols of the Elders of Zion stuff to me. :laugh:

[Missileman]

Yea, it seemed like Protocols of the Elders of Zion stuff to me. :laugh:

The Mexican Air Force might be a force to reckon with if they can find a burro fast enough to get the kite in the air. :laugh:

[SassyLady]

So your timeout is over? I find it interesting that you have not refuted anything in the article .... in fact, all you've done is to come in here and strut like a peacock stating that you have "street credentials" because you live in East LA and post inaccuracies about my credentials.

And just for the record ... most of what I post here is based upon my own experience ... and not that of researchers and stats. Everyone knows that stats can be manipulated to fit any scenario....and those that have no personal experience will always fall back on the "empirical evidence" they find in scholarly textbooks.


So let's see about skurty's claims about the indispensable value of personal experience, cited because she lacks the ability to refer to general rules for the majority of people as opposed to her arrogant presumptions in everything following her own example.

On the one hand we have her, sitting in her little Lancaster or Temecula style humble abode (not that you care or would understand, but the house I live in started out 20 years ago as an 800 sq ft shack and my husband, brother and I worked evenings and weekends to build it out), surrounded by fellow WASP types (wrong - neighbors on three sides are Mexican - to the east side is a Mexican drug dealer who is growing pot on his property; to the west is another Mexican who is a vineyard manager, and across the street is a large vineyard and the people living on that property are also Mexicans who manage that vineyard), sipping tea (decaf only or just water) and gasping in alarm at Sean Hannity's (quit watching when Colmes left) ever-so-informative exposition on the evil Latin types (my son-in-law is Mexican and my grandchildren are half Mexican, so I don't think Latin types in general are evil) and their secret conspiracy to take over (not a secret Aggie ... we talk about it all the time at family functions and I first heard about these organizations from the vineyards workers where I work). On the other hand we have me (overly self-indulgent, boring child), who actually lives in an urban environment dominated by ethnic minorities (as does my daughter and grandchildren - in Tucson), and chose to attend an actual MEChA meeting at East Los Angeles College (ELAC), where I am a student, to see if these claims are true, and saw and heard no discussion of world domination (I never said world domination - just the southwest US). Even aside from her utter inability to provide actual arguments in this thread, who has the right street cred? :laugh:

You are right Aggie ... I don't live in the mean streets of East LA, nor am I Mexican, and I have not actually attended an organized M.E.X.A. function on a college campus .... nope, I've actually talked to those who believe in the philosophy and think it is part of the destiny of America.

What do you think of this statement?



Recognizing that the majority of our Raza are members of the working class, we avow an anti-imperalist analysis that includes Xicana/Xicano self-determination. Xicano self-determination must begin with the recognition of what is implied in using the term M.E.Ch.A (Movimiento Estudiantil Xicano de Aztlán). Essentially, we are a Xicana and Xicano student movement directly linked to Aztlán. As Xicanas and Xicanos of Aztlán, we are a nationalist movement of Indigenous Gente that lay claim to the land that is ours by birthright. As a nationalist movement we seek to free our people from the exploitation of an oppressive society that occupies our land. Thus, the principle of nationalism serves to perserve the cultural traditions of La Familia de La Raza and promotes our identity as a Xicana/Xicano Gente.


http://mexa.calpoly.edu/phil.html

[Agnapostate]

The Mexican Air Force might be a force to reckon with if they can find a burro fast enough to get the kite in the air. :laugh:

Hmmm. I was laughing at the idiotic implausibility of the idea. You seem to be making ethnic-based jokes on your presumption that "Mexicans" are an ethnic group, along the lines of "the Chinese might make it to the moon if their rice supply is high enough." Not really my cup of tea. :dunno:


So your timeout is over? I find it interesting that you have not refuted anything in the article .... in fact, all you've done is to come in here and strut like a peacock stating that you have "street credentials" because you live in East LA and post inaccuracies about my credentials.

I don't live in East LA. I live in the southeast area of Los Angeles County, which includes East LA, and also includes the famous/infamous communities of Compton and Watts. I reside in an urban environment; it's not something to brag about because it's not a matter of conscious choice, but it is a fact that I'll be happy to mention the next time you insist on your greater personal experience. I can't imagine any circumstance in which that statement is actually applicable coming from a Napa Valley type unless we're judging a contest about which country club to join.


And just for the record ... most of what I post here is based upon my own experience ... and not that of researchers and stats.

That's why it's so often factually incorrect; individual personal experiences are highly variable and obviously inferior to amalgamations of the personal experiences of numerous people, from which general trends can be judged.


Everyone knows that stats can be manipulated to fit any scenario....and those that have no personal experience will always fall back on the "empirical evidence" they find in scholarly textbooks.

The statement "stats can be manipulated to fit any scenario" is typically made by ignorant laypersons that lack the ability to accurately interpret statistics, and distinguish different varieties and qualities of empirical research. It's a form of scholarly/scientific illiteracy, in my opinion. But as it stands, I think I just might have more personal experience than someone who "gets tired holding her purse at Home Depot." :laugh:


not that you care or would understand, but the house I live in started out 20 years ago as an 800 sq ft shack and my husband, brother and I worked evenings and weekends to build it out)

Oh, of course, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps; how quintessentially "American." How illustrative of why your tunnel-visioned perspective on your "personal experiences" leads you to reject the preponderance of empirical research that indicates that "the American dream" does not exist for most working class people.


(wrong - neighbors on three sides are Mexican - to the east side is a Mexican drug dealer who is growing pot on his property; to the west is another Mexican who is a vineyard manager, and across the street is a large vineyard and the people living on that property are also Mexicans who manage that vineyard),

How do you know they're Mexicans? Have you seen their national identification documents?


(decaf only or just water)

I think the greasers might have slipped you some Jose Cuervo. :laugh:


(quit watching when Colmes left)

Why? It was Sean's unopposed echo chamber either way.


(my son-in-law is Mexican and my grandchildren are half Mexican, so I don't think Latin types in general are evil)

This post provides me with far more insights than you intended it to. Unless a person is a citizen of Mexico, he or she is not a Mexican. It's not possible for a person to be "half Mexican" any more than it is for a person to be "half Canadian," because "Mexican" is a national descriptive term, not a racial one. That you falsely believe that "Mexicans" represent a homogenous ethnic group explains your fallacious belief that they can have common interests.


(not a secret Aggie ... we talk about it all the time at family functions and I first heard about these organizations from the vineyards workers where I work).

What amazes me is that you would be up in arms if I made some similar generalization about "whites," despite the fact that you interpret the term "Latins" to mean "browns," since you refer to the Indian bloc, and are actually referring to a racial minority. Imagine the reaction if people referred to say, Jewish conspirational plots this way. As I've said elsewhere, if the NCLR represents a hate group and organized conspiracy to annex the Southwestern U.S., is the American Jewish Congress an organized conspiracy to misappropriate taxpayer revenue to support the state of Israel?


(overly self-indulgent, boring child),

This is a personal attack, you dimwitted, senile old hag. ;)


(as does my daughter and grandchildren - in Tucson)

So, to reiterate, you don't, as your desperation to cling to the personal experiences of others indicates.


(I never said world domination - just the southwest US).

These sentiments are the sort of white populist rhetoric spread by Father Charles Coughlin; a minority ethnic population is blamed for problems and depicted as loyal to foreign elements, in this case an organized fifth column. That was the sort of propaganda that justified Japanese internment. White populism is inflamed in times of crisis, especially war against a state associated with the target population.


You are right Aggie ... I don't live in the mean streets of East LA, nor am I Mexican, and I have not actually attended an organized M.E.X.A. function on a college campus .... nope, I've actually talked to those who believe in the philosophy and think it is part of the destiny of America.

Yes, those would be the people that I spoke to as well, especially since my aunt was a member of that organization and her daughter now a Chicano Studies major.


What do you think of this statement?

I think it's a vacuous and ambiguous line that contains no details about Mexican governmental annexation of the Southwest.

[Agnapostate]

Here's something I've jotted up previously on the "reconquista" myth. Feel free to comment. ;)

Jerome Corsi and Jim Gilchrist offer this summary of the rightist conception of the Mexican Reconquista:


At its core, the claim of the Reconquista (‘Reconquest’) movement is that the United States stole large sections of the southwestern United States from Mexico in the 1800s. Mexicans and other Hispanics making these claims seek to reconquer this territory by taking the land away from the United States and returning it to Mexico. The goal of the Reconquista is to ‘reconquer’ these ‘lost’ or ‘stolen’ territories for ‘La Raza‘—the race indigenous to Mexico.

How will the Reconquista be accomplished? Today, millions of Mexican illegal immigrants are pouring into the United States. None of these illegal aliens are checked in any way. They live in the United States while swearing their allegiance to Mexico. By their sheer presence and numbers, those in the Reconquista movement believe that a time will come when they can take political control of local communities where Hispanics are the majority. The ultimate dream of the Reconquista movement is that political control can be gained in one or more southwestern states. Reconquista activists plan that the states controlled by Mexican immigrants would secede from the United States and join Mexico, much as the southern states seceded during the American Civil War and formed the Confederacy.

As preposterous as this seems, the Reconquista agenda has been pushed by the left for decades. Maps of Aztlan are drawn, incorporating large sections of the U.S. southwest and the theory that the U.S. stole the southwest from Mexico is actively taught by Leftists in Mexico as well as in ‘Hispanic studies’ programs in U.S. schools. Those in the Reconquista movement understand the ‘Trojan Horse invasion’ for exactly what it is. They plan to exploit America’s generosity to the fullest, all the while mocking us. The goal is for illegal aliens to get citizenship for themselves and their children so that they can eventually vote to return to Mexico large sections of the American southwest.

The idea seems preposterous because it is. As the United States originated as a British colony, Mexico originated as a Spanish colony. The same fundamental characteristics of European colonialism were present, most prominently the unjust nature of the acquisition of American Indian land holdings.

Mexican governments continued the campaigns of colonial Spanish governments to forcibly acquire indigenous land holdings in what is now the U.S. Southwest. Due to inequities in resource endowments, the indigenous Southwestern peoples of the U.S. Southwest and northern Mexico had never developed the population densities of the urban Mesoamerican Indians in central-southern Mexico and northern Central America, who were gradually assimilated into Mexican society as re-socialized “mestizos” with newly indoctrinated Hispanic identities (that their offspring were born into), and conscripted as foot soldiers and middle management in the military campaigns against the Indians of the North. Even though the vast majority died because of infectious plague (which generally was inadvertently and not deliberately transmitted, as the nature of disease transmission was not well understood at the time), there were still relatively high numbers of natives because of their pre-epidemic extremely high numbers, which necessitated assimilation into European-defined society, whereas their lower post-epidemic numbers elsewhere facilitated their isolation and removal to territory outside European enclaves in periodic bouts of ethnic cleansing, followed by renewed contact and violence when more European immigration to America created a demand for more land and resources.

The Indian populations of American countries correspond to their pre-contact prevalence, since the relative genetic homogeneity of Native Americans rendered them roughly similarly susceptible to foreign disease, with casualty rates ostensibly being approximately similar as a result. They sustained the highest population densities in the urban civilizations of Mesoamerica and the Andes, and central-southern Mexico, Central America, and Peru and Bolivia are therefore populated by the highest numbers and rates of Indians in the Western Hemisphere, whereas other countries had fewer Indians to begin with and ended up being populated by fewer in post-epidemic times.

Though playing a smaller role than disease, the relative humaneness of the policies of foreign occupiers also determined how many natives would continue to exist after contact. Countries in the Caribbean are populated by immigrant whites and blacks because the indigenous populations, the first to encounter foreigners in the form of Columbus and his forces, were exterminated by disease, enslavement, and genocide, most infamously in the case of the Taino of Hispaniola.

There is no “race indigenous to Mexico.” Mexico is a multi-racial country characterized by white European dominance over full and mixed-blooded Indians, with social status generally falling as levels of Amerindian admixture rise.

The Chicano movement originated as a form of Mexican Indian nationalism, their “brown pride” intended as a direct rebuke to the traditional shame of indigenous identity in Latin America. The Spaniards termed the Aztecs “Mexicanos” since the chief contingency of their triumvirate were the “Mexica” (pronounced ME-SHEE-KA), with the Spanish accent making the phonetic spelling “Mechicanos.” A change in the Spanish pronunciation of ‘x’ created the modern ME-HEE-KAN-OS.

This also provides insights into the unwillingness of the immigrant population to “fight for Mexico.” Aside from the fact that many illegal and undocumented immigrants are from Central America (particularly Guatemala and El Salvador), and not Mexico, nearly all of them are predominantly Indian. The damage to the agricultural industry in the southern Mexican state of Oaxaca spurred migrations of the large Zapotec and Mixtec populations in the state, first from rural farms to urban areas, and then north to the United States when they realized that the greater demand for low-skilled manual labor and higher remuneration levels provided greater opportunities.

The Indian working and lower classes of Mexico and Central America boast a long history of conflict with the white upper classes of those countries. The most recent prominent illustration of this in Mexico came by way of the violent insurrection of the Tzotzil Mayans organized into the Zapatista Army of National Liberation (Spanish; Ejercito Zapatista de Liberacion Nacional, EZLN) in the southernmost and poorest Mexican state of Chiapas on January 1, 1994, the day that NAFTA went into effect. A similar rebellion erupted around 2006 in the heavily Indian state of Oaxaca. The more agitated Indian contingencies in the country of Mexico are dedicated to the violent overthrow of the country’s government, and those of Central America would have been subject to authoritarian mistreatment by Mexican governmental officials for illegally crossing the southern border. Indian rights activists themselves have been subject to discrimination, from Guatemalan Mayan Rigoberta Menchu briefly expelled from her hotel when her Indian appearance and apparel caused employees to assume that she was a local street vendor to Tohono O’odham Ofelia Rivas detained in Chiapas on charges that she had illegally crossed the border with Guatemala.

Why would those who have managed to arrive in the United States be interested in extending the political authority of that regime over the territory that they have journeyed to?

Nationalism can confusingly manifest itself in “loving one’s country but hating one’s government,” even though the actions attributed to nation-states are generally those committed by their governments.


What is known as the ‘Mexica Movement’ is central to the Reconquista movement. From the Mexica Movement’s website, we see the identification the movement makes with ancient Aztec roots. Their basic point is that current U.S. citizens are colonialists and European imperialists who stole the land of the southwestern United States from its true owners, the Mexican races dating back untold centuries.

This claim is first and foremost misinformed, since the Mexica Movement is a small Los Angeles-based group that most Southwestern Mexicans and Hispanics will not have heard of and not a secret codeword for a conspirational ideology, reducing any assertion that it is “central” to any widespread sentiment among that population.* Beyond that, the example is still problematic, since the front page of the Mexica Movement’s website features an outright rejection towards what they term the “error-filled and Eurocentric ideologies” of Aztlan, “La Raza,” and any “reconquista.” The website characterizes Mexico as “controlled by Europeans,” which is an accurate statement.

*Given the extreme rarity of serious Reconquista advocacy, however, it could be argued that the minuscule Mexica Movement represents a key and therefore “central” player, just as every home schooled student has the opportunity to be valedictorian.

The comparison between the secession of southwestern states into Mexico and the southern states into the Confederacy is interesting, because the popularity of Confederate iconography in the South is not depicted as emblematic of a treasonous and potentially insurrectionary population. Reconquista sentiment is a parallel form of wistful nationalistic nostalgia without any serious potential for concrete manifestation, but unlike the proud proponents of Johnny Reb, who are simply benignly honoring their heritage, the Mexican population (and others perceived as such) of the Southwest are hell-bent on reclamation of their national territory, according to the jingoists.

Rightist literature has spawned mounds of Civil War revisionism, characterized by insistence that the War was not about slavery, attacks on Abraham Lincoln as a dictator and mass murderer, and general depiction of the Lincoln administration as responsible for encroachment on states’ rights and destruction of regional sovereignty and liberty. Regardless of the truth or falsity of such claims, they illustrate sympathy for a government defined as a foreign power, opposed to the government of the United States. Yet the Rebel flag still flies in various Texan neighborhoods, and “Dixie” continues to be played throughout Alabama and Mississippi, with no protest from jingoists, because Confederate fetishism is compatible with white populism.

More than being absurd, such misleading propaganda can become dangerous in more extremist forms, however. Charges of divided loyalties or outright treasonous beliefs during the Second World War resulted in the deportation of numerous Germans and Italians and authoritarian imprisonment of numerous Japanese-Americans and other East Asians perceived as “Japanese” in internment camps, including Han Chinese and Koreans who loathed the Japanese rulers’ incursions on Chinese and Korean territory. The 9/11 attacks and consequent “War on Terror” prompted violent attacks on people perceived as “Middle Eastern” (including Sikhs), and nonviolent discrimination that did not receive the same airtime, with open suggestions of massively destructive strikes on targets perceived as “enemies” and regular racial profiling becoming acceptable political discourse.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t709104/#post8121781


I have absolutely no problem with the government rounding up Japs during WW2. I feel like it was a small price to pay for the privilege we granted them as foreigners to live among us. I still think we should have detained the entire Muslim population after 9/11. All foreigners need to realize that their existence in our country is a privilege and not a right.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t709104/#post8123611


We were attacked by japs, hence all japs were criminals. To camp they go. We should be doing the same thing today with muslims, blacks & mexicants

The popularity of these ideas hostile to ethnic minorities on white supremacist websites illustrates them for what they are: modern manifestations of white populist rhetoric akin to the infamous Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

[SassyLady]

I don't live in East LA. I live in the southeast area of Los Angeles County, which includes East LA, and also includes the famous/infamous communities of Compton and Watts. I reside in an urban environment; it's not something to brag about because it's not a matter of conscious choice, but it is a fact that I'll be happy to mention the next time you insist on your greater personal experience. I can't imagine any circumstance in which that statement is actually applicable coming from a Napa Valley type unless we're judging a contest about which country club to join.

Napa Valley type? :confused:




That's why it's so often factually incorrect; individual personal experiences are highly variable and obviously inferior to amalgamations of the personal experiences of numerous people, from which general trends can be judged.

Personal experiences would be considered inferior to those who have none to speak of themselves....it's obvious from your character that you've had limited life experiences outside of the classroom.




The statement "stats can be manipulated to fit any scenario" is typically made by ignorant laypersons that lack the ability to accurately interpret statistics, and distinguish different varieties and qualities of empirical research. It's a form of scholarly/scientific illiteracy, in my opinion. But as it stands, I think I just might have more personal experience than someone who "gets tired holding her purse at Home Depot." :laugh:


Says someone who has little or no sense of humor or personal experience that challenges the stats.





Oh, of course, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps; how quintessentially "American." How illustrative of why your tunnel-visioned perspective on your "personal experiences" leads you to reject the preponderance of empirical research that indicates that "the American dream" does not exist for most working class people.


You have something against a migrant worker putting themself through school, owning their own business, owning real estate and proving that "the American dream" does exist, if one applies their skill and energy to suviving ... rather than learning the language of debate and going nowhere fast?



How do you know they're Mexicans? Have you seen their national identification documents?
Because they told me they were. Do they need to show their documentation to you for you to consider it "empirical evidence"...are you one of those "peer review" members?




I think the greasers might have slipped you some Jose Cuervo. :laugh:


No....when we get together, if we drink tequilla it is usually Patron or Reposado...but my neighbor to the west likes Pinot.




Why? It was Sean's unopposed echo chamber either way.

Because I like to see Colmes get his panties in a bunch and he's not there anymore, so why bother?




This post provides me with far more insights than you intended it to. Unless a person is a citizen of Mexico, he or she is not a Mexican. It's not possible for a person to be "half Mexican" any more than it is for a person to be "half Canadian," because "Mexican" is a national descriptive term, not a racial one. That you falsely believe that "Mexicans" represent a homogenous ethnic group explains your fallacious belief that they can have common interests.

I'm not the one referring to themselves as Mexican. Why do you think my SIL and his family refer to themselves as Mexicans? Could it be that they were born in Mexico? So, if my SIL has Mexican citizenship would he not be considered a Mexican? And, pray tell, what do you think I should tell my grandkids when they tell people they are half Mexican?





What amazes me is that you would be up in arms if I made some similar generalization about "whites," despite the fact that you interpret the term "Latins" to mean "browns," since you refer to the Indian bloc, and are actually referring to a racial minority. Imagine the reaction if people referred to say, Jewish conspirational plots this way. As I've said elsewhere, if the NCLR represents a hate group and organized conspiracy to annex the Southwestern U.S., is the American Jewish Congress an organized conspiracy to misappropriate taxpayer revenue to support the state of Israel?

You can make all the generalizations about "whites" that you want Aggie. It is my decision whether I can to take issue with it. And for right now, the American Jewish Congress is not affecting my life at the moment. La Raza and MEXA are.




This is a personal attack, you dimwitted, senile old hag. ;)
Yep ... just making sure you are reading everything. I do that to my husband every now and then .... just to make sure he's really listening.





So, to reiterate, you don't, as your desperation to cling to the personal experiences of others indicates.



I do live in a county that was 25% "Hispanic" in 2006 and expected to be 50% by 2015. I would say that I'm soon to be a minority and speak from personal experience when I say I am surrounded by Hispanics....where I live, where I work, my family .... what more do you require for a basis to speak on the subject?



These sentiments are the sort of white populist rhetoric spread by Father Charles Coughlin; a minority ethnic population is blamed for problems and depicted as loyal to foreign elements, in this case an organized fifth column. That was the sort of propaganda that justified Japanese internment. White populism is inflamed in times of crisis, especially war against a state associated with the target population.

And, your point would be what? That there is no plan for the "Xicano/Xicana" to become dominant in America?



Yes, those would be the people that I spoke to as well, especially since my aunt was a member of that organization and her daughter now a Chicano Studies major.

So, you are basing your entire argument on a "personal experience" of conversations you've had. Have those conversations been "peer reviewed" for accuracy?




I think it's a vacuous and ambiguous line that contains no details about Mexican governmental annexation of the Southwest.

Very ambiguous and out of context unless one reads the entire website. It was just a teaser for those that might be interested to know what type of clubs exist on our university campuses.

[Pagan]

Here's something I've jotted up previously on the "reconquista" myth. Feel free to comment. ;)

Jerome Corsi and Jim Gilchrist offer this summary of the rightist conception of the Mexican Reconquista:



The idea seems preposterous because it is. As the United States originated as a British colony, Mexico originated as a Spanish colony. The same fundamental characteristics of European colonialism were present, most prominently the unjust nature of the acquisition of American Indian land holdings.

Mexican governments continued the campaigns of colonial Spanish governments to forcibly acquire indigenous land holdings in what is now the U.S. Southwest. Due to inequities in resource endowments, the indigenous Southwestern peoples of the U.S. Southwest and northern Mexico had never developed the population densities of the urban Mesoamerican Indians in central-southern Mexico and northern Central America, who were gradually assimilated into Mexican society as re-socialized “mestizos” with newly indoctrinated Hispanic identities (that their offspring were born into), and conscripted as foot soldiers and middle management in the military campaigns against the Indians of the North. Even though the vast majority died because of infectious plague (which generally was inadvertently and not deliberately transmitted, as the nature of disease transmission was not well understood at the time), there were still relatively high numbers of natives because of their pre-epidemic extremely high numbers, which necessitated assimilation into European-defined society, whereas their lower post-epidemic numbers elsewhere facilitated their isolation and removal to territory outside European enclaves in periodic bouts of ethnic cleansing, followed by renewed contact and violence when more European immigration to America created a demand for more land and resources.

The Indian populations of American countries correspond to their pre-contact prevalence, since the relative genetic homogeneity of Native Americans rendered them roughly similarly susceptible to foreign disease, with casualty rates ostensibly being approximately similar as a result. They sustained the highest population densities in the urban civilizations of Mesoamerica and the Andes, and central-southern Mexico, Central America, and Peru and Bolivia are therefore populated by the highest numbers and rates of Indians in the Western Hemisphere, whereas other countries had fewer Indians to begin with and ended up being populated by fewer in post-epidemic times.

Though playing a smaller role than disease, the relative humaneness of the policies of foreign occupiers also determined how many natives would continue to exist after contact. Countries in the Caribbean are populated by immigrant whites and blacks because the indigenous populations, the first to encounter foreigners in the form of Columbus and his forces, were exterminated by disease, enslavement, and genocide, most infamously in the case of the Taino of Hispaniola.

There is no “race indigenous to Mexico.” Mexico is a multi-racial country characterized by white European dominance over full and mixed-blooded Indians, with social status generally falling as levels of Amerindian admixture rise.

The Chicano movement originated as a form of Mexican Indian nationalism, their “brown pride” intended as a direct rebuke to the traditional shame of indigenous identity in Latin America. The Spaniards termed the Aztecs “Mexicanos” since the chief contingency of their triumvirate were the “Mexica” (pronounced ME-SHEE-KA), with the Spanish accent making the phonetic spelling “Mechicanos.” A change in the Spanish pronunciation of ‘x’ created the modern ME-HEE-KAN-OS.

This also provides insights into the unwillingness of the immigrant population to “fight for Mexico.” Aside from the fact that many illegal and undocumented immigrants are from Central America (particularly Guatemala and El Salvador), and not Mexico, nearly all of them are predominantly Indian. The damage to the agricultural industry in the southern Mexican state of Oaxaca spurred migrations of the large Zapotec and Mixtec populations in the state, first from rural farms to urban areas, and then north to the United States when they realized that the greater demand for low-skilled manual labor and higher remuneration levels provided greater opportunities.

The Indian working and lower classes of Mexico and Central America boast a long history of conflict with the white upper classes of those countries. The most recent prominent illustration of this in Mexico came by way of the violent insurrection of the Tzotzil Mayans organized into the Zapatista Army of National Liberation (Spanish; Ejercito Zapatista de Liberacion Nacional, EZLN) in the southernmost and poorest Mexican state of Chiapas on January 1, 1994, the day that NAFTA went into effect. A similar rebellion erupted around 2006 in the heavily Indian state of Oaxaca. The more agitated Indian contingencies in the country of Mexico are dedicated to the violent overthrow of the country’s government, and those of Central America would have been subject to authoritarian mistreatment by Mexican governmental officials for illegally crossing the southern border. Indian rights activists themselves have been subject to discrimination, from Guatemalan Mayan Rigoberta Menchu briefly expelled from her hotel when her Indian appearance and apparel caused employees to assume that she was a local street vendor to Tohono O’odham Ofelia Rivas detained in Chiapas on charges that she had illegally crossed the border with Guatemala.

Why would those who have managed to arrive in the United States be interested in extending the political authority of that regime over the territory that they have journeyed to?

Nationalism can confusingly manifest itself in “loving one’s country but hating one’s government,” even though the actions attributed to nation-states are generally those committed by their governments.



This claim is first and foremost misinformed, since the Mexica Movement is a small Los Angeles-based group that most Southwestern Mexicans and Hispanics will not have heard of and not a secret codeword for a conspirational ideology, reducing any assertion that it is “central” to any widespread sentiment among that population.* Beyond that, the example is still problematic, since the front page of the Mexica Movement’s website features an outright rejection towards what they term the “error-filled and Eurocentric ideologies” of Aztlan, “La Raza,” and any “reconquista.” The website characterizes Mexico as “controlled by Europeans,” which is an accurate statement.

*Given the extreme rarity of serious Reconquista advocacy, however, it could be argued that the minuscule Mexica Movement represents a key and therefore “central” player, just as every home schooled student has the opportunity to be valedictorian.

The comparison between the secession of southwestern states into Mexico and the southern states into the Confederacy is interesting, because the popularity of Confederate iconography in the South is not depicted as emblematic of a treasonous and potentially insurrectionary population. Reconquista sentiment is a parallel form of wistful nationalistic nostalgia without any serious potential for concrete manifestation, but unlike the proud proponents of Johnny Reb, who are simply benignly honoring their heritage, the Mexican population (and others perceived as such) of the Southwest are hell-bent on reclamation of their national territory, according to the jingoists.

Rightist literature has spawned mounds of Civil War revisionism, characterized by insistence that the War was not about slavery, attacks on Abraham Lincoln as a dictator and mass murderer, and general depiction of the Lincoln administration as responsible for encroachment on states’ rights and destruction of regional sovereignty and liberty. Regardless of the truth or falsity of such claims, they illustrate sympathy for a government defined as a foreign power, opposed to the government of the United States. Yet the Rebel flag still flies in various Texan neighborhoods, and “Dixie” continues to be played throughout Alabama and Mississippi, with no protest from jingoists, because Confederate fetishism is compatible with white populism.

More than being absurd, such misleading propaganda can become dangerous in more extremist forms, however. Charges of divided loyalties or outright treasonous beliefs during the Second World War resulted in the deportation of numerous Germans and Italians and authoritarian imprisonment of numerous Japanese-Americans and other East Asians perceived as “Japanese” in internment camps, including Han Chinese and Koreans who loathed the Japanese rulers’ incursions on Chinese and Korean territory. The 9/11 attacks and consequent “War on Terror” prompted violent attacks on people perceived as “Middle Eastern” (including Sikhs), and nonviolent discrimination that did not receive the same airtime, with open suggestions of massively destructive strikes on targets perceived as “enemies” and regular racial profiling becoming acceptable political discourse.

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t709104/#post8121781



http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t709104/#post8123611



The popularity of these ideas hostile to ethnic minorities on white supremacist websites illustrates them for what they are: modern manifestations of white populist rhetoric akin to the infamous Protocols of the Elders of Zion.


SQUAWK!!!


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zZRNS98yozM/hqdefault.jpg

[SassyLady]

Here's something I've jotted up previously on the "reconquista" myth. Feel free to comment. ;)


The popularity of these ideas hostile to ethnic minorities on white supremacist websites illustrates them for what they are: modern manifestations of white populist rhetoric akin to the infamous Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

How can you refute what M.E.X.A. says on their website. Do you think the sentence above negates what the organizers of this movement say? The people who created the organization are not white populists. They do not want to assimilate and become Americans....they want to be a separate nation.


<H3>M.E.Ch.A'S Philosophy


The Xicana/Xicano sutdent movement has been plagued by opportunists that have sought to rechannel the energies of our people and divert us from our struggle for self determination. The educational plight of Xicana and Xicano students continues to be ignored by insensitive administrators. Overall, Xicana/Xicano junior high, high school and college pushout rates have risen since 1969, forcing many Xicanas and Xicanos to a life of poverty. These factors along with a growing right wing trend in the nation are combining to work greater hardships on Xicanas and Xicanos. New repressive and racist immigration laws are continuously directed at our Gente. Along with this, the current administration has started the process of dismantling Affirmative Action and Civil Rights protections. Just as Hispanics seeks to deny our indigenous heritage, so does Latino. The terms Hispanic and Latino further ignore our unique socio-economic and historical aspects of our Xicana/Xicano Gente. This cannot be ignored. We cannot coin terms for unity sake when these terms fail to fully represent our diverse communities. Chicanismo does not seek to use the word "Xicano" as an umbrella term when representing all of "La Familia de La Raza". Rather, Chicanismo seeks to educate our barrios and campos about our history y cultura to further create a movement of self-determination for the Liberation of Aztlán, something that Hispanic and Latino has yet to represent or recognize. These factors have made it necessary for Movimiento Estudiantil Xicano de Aztlán to affirm our philosophy of liberation (i.e. educational, socio-economic, and political empowerment) for our Xicana/Xicano Nation.

We, as MECHISTA'S, see the process of Chicanismo as evolutionary. We recognize that no one is born politically Xicana or Xicano. Chicanismo results from a decision based on a political consciousness for our Raza, to dedicate oneself to building a Xicana/Xicano Nation. Chicanismo is a concept that integrates self-awareness with cultural identity, a necessary step in developing political consciousness. Therefore the term Xicano is grounded in a philosophy, not a nationality. Chicanismo does not exclude anyone, rather it includes those who acknowledge and work toward the betterment of La Raza.

Chicanismo involves a personal decision to reject assimilation and work towards the preservation of our cultural heritage. Recognizing that all people are potential Xicanas and Xicanos, we encourage those interested in developing a total commitment to our movement for self-determination for the people of Aztlán to join Movimiento Estudiantil Xicano de Aztlán.

Thus, by all means necessary, We Xicana/Xicano estudiantes or Aztlán, dedicate ourselves to taking our educational destiny into our own hands through the process of spreading Chicanismo, in the spirit of carnalismo.

M.E.Ch.A is committed to ending the cultural tyranny suffered at the hands of institutional and systematic discrimination that holds our Gente captive. We seek an end to oppression and exploitation of the Xicano/Xicana community.

As MECHISTA'S, we proclaim that we are the people of Aztlán and that we recognize our indigenous unity with our brothers and sisters of Ixachitzlan (Alaska to Tierra del Fuego). We declare that we are the descendants of El Quinto Sol. Our fundamental drive is to organize and challenge Xicana/Xicano estudiantes to maintain self-respect and dignity to overcome historical prejudices and discrimination against the Xicana and Xicano Gente. The historic mission of M.E.Ch.A involves an educational plan of action that builds an educational ladder for the advancement of our people. Recognizing that the strength of our movement is rooted in our barrios, M.E.Ch.A pledges itself to reach out to the community and schools, to establish new educational opportunities. We also recognize that our M.E.Ch.A chapters are much stronger when they are rooted in and accountable to the Xicana/Xicano community. Consequently, We, MECHISTA'S commit ourselves to return to our community and contribute to the development of the Xicana/Xicano Nation.
</H3>

[Missileman]

Hmmm. I was laughing at the idiotic implausibility of the idea. You seem to be making ethnic-based jokes on your presumption that "Mexicans" are an ethnic group, along the lines of "the Chinese might make it to the moon if their rice supply is high enough." Not really my cup of tea. :dunno:

Was a joke about the military capabilities of the nation of Mexico...not sure how you made the leap to "ethnic-based" other than blindly.

[Pagan]

Was a joke about the military capabilities of the nation of Mexico...not sure how you made the leap to "ethnic-based" other than blindly.

He's a complete and total fool who doesn't have enough sense to even pour piss out of his own boot..

[Agnapostate]

Napa Valley type? :confused:

i.e. wine country USA. ;)


Personal experiences would be considered inferior to those who have none to speak of themselves....it's obvious from your character that you've had limited life experiences outside of the classroom.

Another inane comment, another refusal by you to provide an actual counterargument so much as repeat the same line over and over and over again, even when I demonstrably have more experience than you in terms of urban poverty and living among ethnic minorities. Whether it comes to empirical research or day to day life, you lose to me either way. :dunno:


Says someone who has little or no sense of humor or personal experience that challenges the stats.

What do you mean? I have a delightful sense of humor!

http://users.telenet.be/swinnen1/funshirts/shirts/hell/495.gif

As for personal experience, I certainly have experiences that challenges general trends. I just know that I'm an exception to a rule; I'm not arrogant or presumptuous or self-centered enough to believe that what applies to me must automatically apply to everyone else.


You have something against a migrant worker putting themself through school, owning their own business, owning real estate and proving that "the American dream" does exist, if one applies their skill and energy to suviving ... rather than learning the language of debate and going nowhere fast?

Not at all. Just, you know, empirical evidence indicating that such a prospect does not exist for the majority of the ethnic group typically concerned. Consider An American Dream Unfulfilled: The Limited Mobility of Mexican Americans (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1540-6237.00129/abstract):


Objective. We build on past research regarding immigrant group adaptation by examining the wages of first–, second–, and third–generation Mexican–American men and women and empirically evaluating if past theories of immigrant incorporation apply to the Mexican–American case. Methods. We use the 1989 Latino National Political Study and the 1990/1991 Panel Studies of Income Dynamics and OLS regressions to estimate the effects of generation and human capital on wages. Results. Immigrant men and women report lower wages than their second– and third–generation counterparts, but once human capital controls are added, the wage pattern becomes one of steady decline across generations for men, and stagnation or marginal decline across generations for women. Conclusions. Our results generally contest the applicability of linear assimilation hypotheses to the Mexican–American experience, while lending some credence to the selectivity and immigrant optimism hypotheses. Results also indicate the importance of developing more contextualized immigrant adaptation frameworks.

Research is fun! See, once upon a time, there were probably two people named skurty and Agna, right? And they probably had a dialogue like this.

skurty: I think anyone can rise to the top if they work hard enough.

Agna: I'm not so sure. I think a lot of people work hard and stay in a low position, and a lot of people don't work very hard at all, and stay in a high position. It's kind of a matter of "choosing your parents wisely."

skurty: You're wrong, and you have no experience!

Agna: Well, I do happen to live in a place filled with far more poor people and ethnic minority people than you do. But to be fair to you, we'll take a neutral approach. We'll collect a large data set that consists of numerous individuals. We'll proceed to empirically analyze that data set, implementing controls to minimize the influence of variables that we don't want biasing the end result. We'll then determine the general pattern of people, rather than isolated cases on one side or the other, and submit this evidence to a scholarly journal where it can be reviewed by others unconnected with our research before publication.

skurty: No! You're wrong! You can do anything with data, not that I know anything about econometrics!

Agna: Oh, skurty. You're no fun anymore...ever since you turned your melons into grapes.

:dunno:


Because they told me they were. Do they need to show their documentation to you for you to consider it "empirical evidence"...are you one of those "peer review" members?

Oh, on the contrary, the fact still applies that if they are not citizens of Mexico, they are not Mexicans. But it's a popular misconception.


Because I like to see Colmes get his panties in a bunch and he's not there anymore, so why bother?

Yea, Colmes was a pussy.


I'm not the one referring to themselves as Mexican. Why do you think my SIL and his family refer to themselves as Mexicans? Could it be that they were born in Mexico? So, if my SIL has Mexican citizenship would he not be considered a Mexican? And, pray tell, what do you think I should tell my grandkids when they tell people they are half Mexican?

I did not claim that they were not Mexicans, only that they were not depending on a contingent condition. However, the fact that you avoided answering the question directly raises my suspicions that they are not, and that you are using the term incorrectly. What you should tell the lil' tykes is that they are um, wrong. I used to incorrectly tell people that I was "half Mexican" too. I came to realize my mistake.


You can make all the generalizations about "whites" that you want Aggie. It is my decision whether I can to take issue with it. And for right now, the American Jewish Congress is not affecting my life at the moment. La Raza and MEXA are.

It's the same sort of ethnic-based conspiracy theory. You would, I suspect, have been a devoted listener of Father Coughlin. What does the National Council of La Raza do that's objectionable, again? Provide alternative cultural education and some charitable work? I mean, hell, I have so much more reason to be angered at the spread of Hispanic culture than you do, and I'm not the one whining about "La Raza." :dunno:


I do live in a county that was 25% "Hispanic" in 2006 and expected to be 50% by 2015. I would say that I'm soon to be a minority and speak from personal experience when I say I am surrounded by Hispanics....where I live, where I work, my family .... what more do you require for a basis to speak on the subject?

O NO THE INVADERS ARE COMING DEY TAKE OUR JERBS!

Shit, how can idiots be so blind over and over and over again? Is it that hard to not learn the lesson taught by the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, etc.? Oh, but this ethnic group, this ethnic group is different! But anyway, you're also wrong, because Hispanics are persons with national origins in Spanish-speaking countries. Unless the people there have national origins in Spanish-speaking countries, and using the stricter application, are citizens of countries with Spanish as the national language, they are not Hispanic. How are you to be a "minority"? What distinguishes you from so-called "Hispanics," anyway?


And, your point would be what? That there is no plan for the "Xicano/Xicana" to become dominant in America?

Well, if your argument against demographic shifts is based on that, I would argue that it is a hollow racist conspiracy theory akin to Father Coughlin's demagoguery, as I said. It contains elements of the justifications for Japanese internment. Why don't you actually respond to my identification of your nonsense as containing so many similarities to white populist doctrines now commonly recognized as inaccurate and wrong?


So, you are basing your entire argument on a "personal experience" of conversations you've had. Have those conversations been "peer reviewed" for accuracy?

OMG, fail. A joke is completely ruined when you have to stop and detail its components, so try looking up irony. My mention of personal experience was intended to be a humorous dig at you. For you to be so oblivious as to think it's me randomly citing personal experiences as definitive against all prior signs is just sad. :slap:


Very ambiguous and out of context unless one reads the entire website. It was just a teaser for those that might be interested to know what type of clubs exist on our university campuses.

Oooh, a teaser! Do you publish a tabloid magazine? :laugh:


How can you refute what M.E.X.A. says on their website. Do you think the sentence above negates what the organizers of this movement say? The people who created the organization are not white populists. They do not want to assimilate and become Americans....they want to be a separate nation.

You remind me of a fundamentalist Christian: inventing the most asinine and fanciful claims despite an utter lack of concrete detail. Where is the annexation plot concretely detailed in that document. BTW, I see you have completely failed to even pretend to refute my treatise. :laugh:


Was a joke about the military capabilities of the nation of Mexico...not sure how you made the leap to "ethnic-based" other than blindly.

It was a comment based in ethnic/cultural stereotypes, and is no different than saying that the Chinese would make it to the moon if their rice supply lasted, is it? How so?

[Pagan]

>> Snipped the mindless parroting <<



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3466/3966691024_fac5af81b8.jpg

[Agnapostate]

More useless than any other useless idiot, more retarded than any other retarded cripple, somehow, against all odds, pushing the imbecility of DebatePolicy to a new low...it's CHAFIN'! :lol:

[Pagan]

More useless than any other useless idiot, more retarded than any other retarded cripple, somehow, against all odds, pushing the imbecility of DebatePolicy to a new low...it's CHAFIN'! :lol:

http://images5.cpcache.com/product/wildlife-testicles-sex/391177595v3_225x225_Front.jpg

[Agnapostate]

[standard chafin' stupidity]

http://tshirthell.vo.llnwd.net/e1/shirts/products/a1072/a1072_thumb.jpg

[Missileman]

It was a comment based in ethnic/cultural stereotypes, and is no different than saying that the Chinese would make it to the moon if their rice supply lasted, is it? How so?

No, DIPSHIT! It was a joke about the Mexican army. Who the fuck are you to tell me what MY intent was? :fu:

[Agnapostate]

No, DIPSHIT! It was a joke about the Mexican army. Who the fuck are you to tell me what MY intent was? :fu:

It was about the Mexican Air Force, not the Army, you stupid idiot, and I merely made an observation that it was reliant on ethnic/cultural stereotype. You still haven't explained how it would be different than the Chinese rice comment. :laugh:

[Missileman]

It was about the Mexican Air Force, not the Army, you stupid idiot, and I merely made an observation that it was reliant on ethnic/cultural stereotype. You still haven't explained how it would be different than the Chinese rice comment. :laugh:

Which stereotype about Mexicans involves a kite? Really...STFU!

[Agnapostate]

Which stereotype about Mexicans involves a kite? Really...STFU!

Well, you really got me there. I totally had the kite in mind, but now I'm stumped.

[PostmodernProphet]

La Raza is the Spanish speaking Tea Party movement. Both say they want to take back their country. Both cater to a very small portion of the population. Both are doomed to failure.

right....that's why the demonstrators on the Mall in Washington tore down the Lincoln Memorial and spread the debris all the way to the Capital Building.....

[Agnapostate]

So...cat got your tongue there, skurty? Or realize the folly of posting racist conspiracy theories? ;)

[SassyLady]

Nope...just find other people and what they have to say more interesting.

[Agnapostate]

Nope. You just lost the debate. I'll remind you of it the next time you put on your false airs of superiority.

[SassyLady]

Nope. You just lost the debate. I'll remind you of it the next time you put on your false airs of superiority.

If that's what you need to do to feel better about yourself, then go ahead Aggie...no one here, but you, believes you've "won" anything other than pity for the way you bully and antagonize people who don't debate according to your rules.

I truly do hope that you will have a good life in spite of your self-aggrandizing behaviors.

Buh-bye.

[Agnapostate]

If that's what you need to do to feel better about yourself, then go ahead Aggie...no one here, but you, believes you've "won" anything other than pity for the way you bully and antagonize people who don't debate according to your rules.

I truly do hope that you will have a good life in spite of your self-aggrandizing behaviors.

Buh-bye.

I bet you're sweet on the inside despite this nasty exterior, aren't you? ;)

[Agnapostate]

So does "La Raza" still mean the race? How is that possible, when Mexico is a multi-racial country, and there is no "Mexican race"? :laugh:

[Agnapostate]

A testament to the nature of this doctrine as a racist conspiracy theory (apart from HogWash's support of it), is found in its popularity at Stormfront: http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t617268/

"This is a more dangerous movement than some of you may realize. Jewtube it and you'll see."

"I strongly agree. Their sheer numbers make them a very real threat to US stability."

"Agreed. For those of us here in So Cal and else where in the Southwest already know, these Mexicans are truly taking over large parts of America through sheer numbers alone.

After moving in and saturating an area, their high birth rates perpetuates a virtually unstoppable cycle. Before you know it, your city looks like Tijuana. Then the culture of the city is replaced with that of Tujuana...like L.A. of today.

For those of you in parts of the US without a Mexican problem (yet), I cannot urge you strongly enough to keep them away from your cities and towns."

"This is treasonous filth. Am I going crazy? These people should be executed. They are out in the open about how they are going to take a chunk off of our country, while already residing in our country!

Anybody in those states listed better move on out or pile up the sandbags and dig some trenches, an army of crazed mexcriment will get too excited about any revolution and make sure it comes to pass ASAP."

"Indeed. They already HAVE destabilized the U.S. California, one of the largest and most populous states, is on the brink of total collapse, and many other major population centers are right on its heels! It's a nightmare come true...

...once Obammy and his minions grant them amnesty (legal status) and are swept into the fold of "universal" healthcare, it will essentially be CHECKMATE!!!

UNLESS LIBERAL WHITES AND OBLIVIOUS WHITE FENCE-SITTERS WAKE FROM THEIR SLUMBER OF SIMPERING SLOTH AND SUICIDAL SENILITY!!!"

"Yes, a very dangerous and subversive organization. They've infiltrated and invaded all strata of our country: social, economic, political. Now they will try consolidation, control, and confiscation of the US."

"Having lived in the southwest all my life I can say without hesitation that the Mexican takeover is our people's foremost threat. It is more serious than wars for Israel. It is worse than black criminality. And it is more of a problem than a fumbling economy (which is largely the result of the mestizos anyway). God help us expel these vermin."

"If you haven't seen this video yet, you need to see this. These enemy combatants have representatives in state and federal government positions. Most of the hispanic politicians have roots in the radical hispanic reconquista movement, particularly MEChA "

These sentiments support the view that I've expressed that there is a continuum of racial resentment that increases as individuals move further right. Posters in both this forum and Stormfront depict the immigration presence of so-called "Mexicans" (actually Mesoamerican Indians, but the intent is there), as an organized conspiracy to create a fifth column in the U.S.

I do envision opportunities for racist bigotry to manifest itself. It fits hand in hand with the doctrine of more draconian "security" measures tolerated for higher levels of risk. During a war with the Japanese empire, Japanese-Americans were interned in authoritarian camps, a "security measure" tolerated by the general public because of the enormous scale of world war. During the modern "War on Terror," it's more or less accepted by advocates of racial profiling by security personnel that targets will be swarthy Middle Eastern men.

Senate Bill 1070 and other measures haven't reached that level yet. As opposed to the issue with Middle Easterner profiling, where the debate is on the moral rightness or wrongness of racial profiling, the premise that SB 1070 et al. are forms of racial profiling hasn't yet been accepted, because immigration is conceptualized as an issue of lesser scale in terms of immediate physical threat, compared to a massive world war and fairly significant international war, respectively. The conspiracy theory rhetoric that depicts illegal immigration and undocumented residency as an "invasion" and depict immigrants as an ethnically distinct "fifth column" ("reconquista," "Aztlan," etc.), as Japanese-Americans were depicted during WWII, threatens to raise the stakes, however.

[Pagan]

>>>>>>>>>>> SNIPPED MINDLESS DRIVEL <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

http://dansiella.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/pink_flamingos_6.jpg

[Agnapostate]

Fuck off already, Chafin'. You're the most idiotic fucking troll on the site, believe it or not. :slap: :lol:

[Pagan]

Fuck off already, Chafin'. You're the most idiotic fucking troll on the site, believe it or not. :slap: :lol:

What's wrong, upset because anyone with a basic third grade education knows you to be the complete Village Idiot?

So Sweet Pea, tell everyone again how not only Anarchy is Purely "Socialist" but how the Inca Empire was Socialist.... :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Your Ignorance and complete Stupidity has no bounds. :clap:

[Kathianne]

Ok everyone, a 'post has been reported' for derailing. After reviewing this thread, a couple people, that means TWO have resorted to posting pics to flame and the other in specious put downs of other members. To delete one, means deleting the other. Instead, for now, they both stay. However, if they continue there will be problems, consider it a warning, to both of you.

BTW to speak of derailing threads, it's really important that one not bring one's favorite topic to every thread. ;) No matter that you think it's the most relevant topic on the entire board, others also have rights, and you do derail, constantly.

[Abbey Marie]

Ok everyone, a 'post has been reported' for derailing. After reviewing this thread, a couple people, that means TWO have resorted to posting pics to flame and the other in specious put downs of other members. To delete one, means deleting the other. Instead, for now, they both stay. However, if they continue there will be problems, consider it a warning, to both of you.

BTW to speak of derailing threads, it's really important that one not bring one's favorite topic to every thread. ;) No matter that you think it's the most relevant topic on the entire board, others also have rights, and you do derail, constantly.

Amen, Kath.

[Agnapostate]

Too true. :clap:

When someone's first act in a thread is to remove all text from a quoted post and insert a moronic and repetitive image or series of images, it's an example of chronic stupidity.

[Kathianne]

Too true. :clap:

When someone's first act in a thread is to remove all text from a quoted post and insert a moronic and repetitive image or series of images, it's an example of chronic stupidity.

Move along.