Should illegal aliens be allowed to stay, and offered a "Path to Citizenship"?

[Little-Acorn]

There are stories coming out, that Congress is considering bills that offer a "Path to Citizenship" (a.k.a. "amnesty") to the illegal aliens who are already here, and let them stay in the country to work until they get it. Left unsaid, is the fact that millions more foreigners have applied for visas, followed the rules, and are also hoping for citizenship... but remain outside the country. Such a bill was also proposed years go, in 2005/6.

Is it a good idea to do this?

Keep in mind the one thing the illegal aliens have in common. Whether they are Mexican citizens who walked across the border, Norwegian college students who overstayed their visa, Russian sailors who shinnied down the anchor chain in New York, or Saudis who took a little vacation from the diplomatic mission, they are all people who have shown a disdain for American law, and have demonstrated that they are happy to break it.

This is who you want to keep in this country and make American citizens? While keeping out the people who respected U.S. law, obeyed it, and followed the rules?

[hortysir]

Might as well let every criminal remain free so they can have sufficient time to show their remorse for their crime.
No.
No amnesty.
Bam-Bam only wants it because his aunt is one of them here illegally.

[HogTrash]

FACT!

The Democrat Party's goal is to grant amnesty and eventual citizenship to the illegal aliens, for which there are at least 12 million and possibly as many as 20 million latinos that are now spread throughout every US state.

If they should succeed in doing so, the overwhelming majority of these new voters will support the Democrat Party and the balance of power will forever be shifted to the left, making the United States a one party political system.

There will be absolutely nothing standing in the way of the far left progressive movement, whose policies and politics will transform this nation into our worst socialist nightmare...America as we know it, will be no more.

Many people are not aware that the Obama Administration is also making provisions to allow their immediate families the opportunity to join them here in America...That's their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and their spouses and children.

Our generation will have failed to pass the American Dream onto our children...............Would the last American to leave the United States, please turn out the lights?...It's been nice knowin ya.

[Binky]

There are stories coming out, that Congress is considering bills that offer a "Path to Citizenship" (a.k.a. "amnesty") to the illegal aliens who are already here, and let them stay in the country to work until they get it. Left unsaid, is the fact that millions more foreigners have applied for visas, followed the rules, and are also hoping for citizenship... but remain outside the country. Such a bill was also proposed years go, in 2005/6.

Is it a good idea to do this?

Keep in mind the one thing the illegal aliens have in common. Whether they are Mexican citizens who walked across the border, Norwegian college students who overstayed their visa, Russian sailors who shinnied down the anchor chain in New York, or Saudis who took a little vacation from the diplomatic mission, they are all people who have shown a disdain for American law, and have demonstrated that they are happy to break it.

This is who you want to keep in this country and make American citizens? While keeping out the people who respected U.S. law, obeyed it, and followed the rules?


Yeah and our gov't is filled to the brim with idiots carrying their agendas......while they tear away and erode America and all she stands for...... And we're the fools that have elected them giving them power to fuck things up..... Now we're a country full of angry individuals that have decided the day of reckoning is at hand......

[Binky]

FACT!

The Democrat Party's goal is to grant amnesty and eventual citizenship to the illegal aliens, for which there are at least 12 million and possibly as many as 20 million latinos that are now spread throughout every US state.

If they should succeed in doing so, the overwhelming majority of these new voters will support the Democrat Party and the balance of power will forever be shifted to the left, making the United States a one party political system.

There will be absolutely nothing standing in the way of the far left progressive movement, whose policies and politics will transform this nation into our worst socialist nightmare...America as we know it, will be no more.

Many people are not aware that the Obama Administration is also making provisions to allow their immediate families the opportunity to join them here in America...That's their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and their spouses and children.

Our generation will have failed to pass the American Dream onto our children...............Would the last American to leave the United States, please turn out the lights?...It's been nice knowin ya.


Our generation began failing the next generation back in the '60's, during the hippy years..... Liberal behavior was born. I am ashamed I am part of that generation as it has passed on such liberal actions and beliefs to their young, this generation, which has taken it to the max.... Everything goes now days. There isn't much that is considered inappropriate and unacceptable anymore. And at this point in time, we, as a country, have come to the crossroads of our existance. We have to decide whether or not we are going to put a stop to the liberal ideals that have infested our country or let our kids and grandkids pay the price..... We are finding ourselves in the positiion of having to stand up and be counted and take responsibilty for our country and make things right for the next generation..... We've let things get out of control and when everyone was out sleeping around and rolling in the hay, or burying themselves in a bottle of booze or snorting down coke, the powers that be, walked in, creeped around, stayed below the radar and began doing whatever sneaky agenda they had in mind.... And the result is what we have today......:eek::eek::eek: What an apathic country we have become......

[cat slave]

Excellent posts Binky and HT! Youve said it all.

We already have a path to citizenship.....its called LEGAL immigration!
Stop the invasion and seal the border.

I have a life long friend. I have tried to build a fire under her for years and
years to be politically active and do something. She never had time. I
tried to get her to spend 5 minutes a week calling at least one of TNs
representatives....she could it while driving since she constantly has
the cell phone glued to her ear. Didnt work.

Now, guess who is screaming about the path our country is on...yep, my
friend! Now, she has things to say but not to the right people.

Complacency, denial and apathy have delivered us to this point. I just
dont understand how someone can be so out of touch and let this happen.

[Binky]

Excellent posts Binky and HT! Youve said it all.

We already have a path to citizenship.....its called LEGAL immigration!
Stop the invasion and seal the border.

I have a life long friend. I have tried to build a fire under her for years and
years to be politically active and do something. She never had time. I
tried to get her to spend 5 minutes a week calling at least one of TNs
representatives....she could it while driving since she constantly has
the cell phone glued to her ear. Didnt work.

Now, guess who is screaming about the path our country is on...yep, my
friend! Now, she has things to say but not to the right people.

Complacency, denial and apathy have delivered us to this point. I just
dont understand how someone can be so out of touch and let this happen.



And as if all that isn't enough, the powers that be are messing around with our constitution. They will stop at nothing to rework the wording. And to think they have paid minions, ordinary citizens such as ourselves, working in those gov't offices, whose job entails to rewrite whatever their boss tells them to....

At first I didn't understand how this could have happened either. But then I began pondering it over and over. I believe, with the flow of money, jobs and greed plentiful, people have wanted so much stuff that it has taken mucho hours at one or more jobs to support the lifestyles they felt they needed to be happy. To feel like they were living the lives the stars live, in fancy homes with nice cars and lots of clothes.... You know, crapola..... So with the amount of time they have to eat up earning the money to pay for their addictions or whatever, or maybe just to keep up with their friends and neighbors, they don't have time for family and values. Heck, many don't even cook a home cooked meal. They head off to McD's or Burgershit to feed their families..... They're too damn tired after putting in 70 hrs a week. And they've spent, spent, spent to make themselves feel better. You know......that need for more gunk..... So they are credit card poor.....The credit companies own them. The mortgage companies have them chained to a huge mortgage...... Soooo...........all that combined brings on the apathy. They just don't have the energy to think about what is going on in the country. So heads have been buried in their wallets, computers, or crammed up their backsides..... And it all ends up to where we are at today.......

Pretty picture, isn't it? Ugly or not.........it's the reality of the situation.....

At the risk of sounding like a doom sayer, I think we are going to see worse before it gets better. I am a realist and I think we've had enough clues tossed at us over the last two decades. We no longer have the excuse that we didn't know anything was wrong........When we have a president that felt the urge to drop his pants to get a bj from a young niave woman, in the oval office of the most powerful government in the world, it's a huge clue that there is some very stinky poo going on in our country.....

[cat slave]

A well thought out post, Binky!

[namvet]

they should all be deported then apply to get back in

[DragonStryk72]

The simple problem is that with so many illegals, it will be near on impossible to track them down on an individual level. I think there can be a compromise here, wherein those that are here would have to pay up the money they owe, both for their citizenship approval, and their back taxes and a small penalty paid out over several years.

They get penalized, and are forced to actually work off the debt they accrued while they were here, as opposed to just incurring more debt on our part ship back to their country of origin, when they've already shown they can break into ours pretty well.

[Binky]

they should all be deported then apply to get back in

And how do you suggest we go about finding the million of them? If the gov't hasn't found them yet, do you think it ever will?

Maybe it's time to crack down on the enablers....You know........the corporations, smaller companies and landlords that are all making a profit off of them..... Seems to me if we began enforcing the laws we have and hand out huge fines with jail time attached to all that enable them, you'd see illegals heading down the trail back from wence they came....It ain't brain surgery here. It's a matter of cracking down on the enablers. Make fines and jail time substantial enough for a large corp. to sit up and take notice. And if that doesn't work then increase it....

Crack down on landlords that allow illegals to live in their rentals. Most of those landlords are slumlords. So make them fix up those rentals so they are liveable for humans rather than cockroaches, spiders, bees whatever. Fine their butts and toss them in jail for every month they allow illegals to reside in their rentals.... Enforce the law......Cause them some pain. They are vermin living cushy lives off the plight of others..... Sickening.

It's rather simple in fact....take away their lifelines and the illegals would have no choice but to head back home.....

[Binky]

A well thought out post, Binky!

Just things that have bothered me for eons now....I'm gettin' old Cat......I have grandkids. I would like for their children to grow up in a free America as I did.....And the direction our leaders have been steering it in isn't going to be that country in the next 2-3 decades......

[namvet]

And how do you suggest we go about finding the million of them? If the gov't hasn't found them yet, do you think it ever will?

Maybe it's time to crack down on the enablers....You know........the corporations, smaller companies and landlords that are all making a profit off of them..... Seems to me if we began enforcing the laws we have and hand out huge fines with jail time attached to all that enable them, you'd see illegals heading down the trail back from wence they came....It ain't brain surgery here. It's a matter of cracking down on the enablers. Make fines and jail time substantial enough for a large corp. to sit up and take notice. And if that doesn't work then increase it....

Crack down on landlords that allow illegals to live in their rentals. Most of those landlords are slumlords. So make them fix up those rentals so they are liveable for humans rather than cockroaches, spiders, bees whatever. Fine their butts and toss them in jail for every month they allow illegals to reside in their rentals.... Enforce the law......Cause them some pain. They are vermin living cushy lives off the plight of others..... Sickening.

It's rather simple in fact....take away their lifelines and the illegals would have no choice but to head back home.....

oh it will take time. but if the other states ink their laws i think it will speed up the process. problem is criminals. they're not here to take jobs. but they live by the gun so.........

and more and more states are considering this bill. including mine.

[namvet]

Just things that have bothered me for eons now....I'm gettin' old Cat......I have grandkids. I would like for their children to grow up in a free America as I did.....And the direction our leaders have been steering it in isn't going to be that country in the next 2-3 decades......

IF we still have the power of the vote we can get rid of this trash. but how many years to clean up the mess????

[Gunny]

There are stories coming out, that Congress is considering bills that offer a "Path to Citizenship" (a.k.a. "amnesty") to the illegal aliens who are already here, and let them stay in the country to work until they get it. Left unsaid, is the fact that millions more foreigners have applied for visas, followed the rules, and are also hoping for citizenship... but remain outside the country. Such a bill was also proposed years go, in 2005/6.

Is it a good idea to do this?

Keep in mind the one thing the illegal aliens have in common. Whether they are Mexican citizens who walked across the border, Norwegian college students who overstayed their visa, Russian sailors who shinnied down the anchor chain in New York, or Saudis who took a little vacation from the diplomatic mission, they are all people who have shown a disdain for American law, and have demonstrated that they are happy to break it.

This is who you want to keep in this country and make American citizens? While keeping out the people who respected U.S. law, obeyed it, and followed the rules?

Sure, let's. Make them legal. Then they have to get Social Security cards and pay taxes and employers will have to pay them minimum wage. In which case, the employers will fire them, and import more illegals.

All we will have accomplished is added another class to the poverty line.

[Binky]

oh it will take time. but if the other states ink their laws i think it will speed up the process. problem is criminals. they're not here to take jobs. but they live by the gun so.........

and more and more states are considering this bill. including mine.



As I said, as for the illegals, cut off their lifelines and off they'd go......Simple, and right to the point..... Doesn't take an Einstien to figure it out..... And ENFORCE THE LAWS WE ALREADY HAVE........

[Binky]

IF we still have the power of the vote we can get rid of this trash. but how many years to clean up the mess????

Well, right now, we still have that power, so it's time to take out the trash. Then we have to begin cleaning up after them.... Once we stop the progression of the liberal trash all else will follow in good time. You don't clean out your basement or garage without first looking at the stuff and deciding what's good enough to keep that gives off positive energy, so to speak....Then you toss out the garbage....

Pick and choose. Weed out the ones that are negative and destructive. Then put together teams throughout the gov't to work in putting it back on a positive track..... Takes a lot of work. Took a lot of work and time for the liberals to fuck everything up....Now it's time to wipe up the floor they puked all over......

[Little-Acorn]

they should all be deported then apply to get back in

I agree... after we have built a GOOD wall long the entire border and staffed the Border Patrol to patrol it constantly.

Then, when the illegals apply to get back in, if we find anything wrong in their records (like, say, they crossed the border illegally in the past), then they get ten years tacked on to their wait time. While people who obeyed the rules, didn't crash the border, applied for visas and waited, move to the FRONT of the line.

[HogTrash]

Put an end to the rewards that bring illegal aliens to America...They are criminals and should be treated as such and so are the people that hire, harbor or assist them.

[1] Enact a law that will make it a crime with severe penelties for hiring illegal aliens.

[2] Enact a law that will make it a crime with severe penelties for anyone who rents a residence, houses, harbors or assists illegal aliens in anyway shape or form.

[3] End all government programs, benefits and services to anyone who is an illegal alien.

[4] End all educational benefits and schooling for the children of illegal aliens.

[5] End all medical treatment [other than life-threatening emergencies] for all illegal aliens.

[6] Retroactively, end the law that grants citizenship for babies born in the United States to illegal aliens.

[7] And forever halt the biggest magnet of all...End the practice of granting amnesty to illegal aliens...No exceptions.

Expensive border security would no longer be necessary because illegal immigration would cease immediately and those already here would self-deport when they had no job, no home, no government services or programs and no medical or educational benefits.

This is 100% fail proof. :bye1:

[Binky]

Exactly what I've said in different posts on different sites....It ain't brain surgery..... But our gov't ain't gonna do any of that.....Not unless we, the people demand they start....

[HogTrash]

Exactly what I've said in different posts on different sites....It ain't brain surgery..... But our gov't ain't gonna do any of that.....Not unless we, the people demand they start....If you and me can come up with the solution, it should be as easy as figuring out the secret ingrediant in mud pie to the geniuses in Washington DC.

[Little-Acorn]

Put an end to the rewards that bring illegal aliens to America...They are criminals and should be treated as such and so are the people that hire, harbor or assist them.

[1] Enact a law that will make it a crime with severe penelties for hiring illegal aliens.

[2] Enact a law that will make it a crime with severe penelties for anyone who rents a residence, houses, harbors or assists illegal aliens in anyway shape or form.

[3] End all government programs, benefits and services to anyone who is an illegal alien.

[4] End all educational benefits and schooling for the children of illegal aliens.

[5] End all medical treatment [other than life-threatening emergencies] for all illegal aliens.

[6] Retroactively, end the law that grants citizenship for babies born in the United States to illegal aliens.

[7] And forever halt the biggest magnet of all...End the practice of granting amnesty to illegal aliens...No exceptions.

Expensive border security would no longer be necessary because illegal immigration would cease immediately and those already here would self-deport when they had no job, no home, no government services or programs and no medical or educational benefits.

This is 100% fail proof. :bye1:

Damn, why didn't I think of some of that? :D

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=22733

:D

[HogTrash]

Damn, why didn't I think of some of that? :D

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=22733

:DA liberal would say that mine is meaner than yours. :p

[REDWHITEBLUE2]

There are stories coming out, that Congress is considering bills that offer a "Path to Citizenship" (a.k.a. "amnesty") to the illegal aliens who are already here, and let them stay in the country to work until they get it. Left unsaid, is the fact that millions more foreigners have applied for visas, followed the rules, and are also hoping for citizenship... but remain outside the country. Such a bill was also proposed years go, in 2005/6.

Is it a good idea to do this?

Keep in mind the one thing the illegal aliens have in common. Whether they are Mexican citizens who walked across the border, Norwegian college students who overstayed their visa, Russian sailors who shinnied down the anchor chain in New York, or Saudis who took a little vacation from the diplomatic mission, they are all people who have shown a disdain for American law, and have demonstrated that they are happy to break it.

This is who you want to keep in this country and make American citizens? While keeping out the people who respected U.S. law, obeyed it, and followed the rules?

NOT only no but HELL NO let them apply legally like they did before our laws were ignored

[PostmodernProphet]

There are stories coming out, that Congress is considering bills that offer a "Path to Citizenship" (a.k.a. "amnesty") to the illegal aliens who are already here, and let them stay in the country to work until they get it. Left unsaid, is the fact that millions more foreigners have applied for visas, followed the rules, and are also hoping for citizenship... but remain outside the country. Such a bill was also proposed years go, in 2005/6.

Is it a good idea to do this?

Keep in mind the one thing the illegal aliens have in common. Whether they are Mexican citizens who walked across the border, Norwegian college students who overstayed their visa, Russian sailors who shinnied down the anchor chain in New York, or Saudis who took a little vacation from the diplomatic mission, they are all people who have shown a disdain for American law, and have demonstrated that they are happy to break it.

This is who you want to keep in this country and make American citizens? While keeping out the people who respected U.S. law, obeyed it, and followed the rules?

anyone that has a job paying them a living wage should be allowed a work visa.....if they don't have a job paying them a living wage they should not be allowed a work visa.....anyone who has a work visa and stays a sufficient period of time and passes all the other requirements of citizenship should be permitted to become a citizen.....all this "they steal our jobs" bullshit wasn't valid when it was used on the Chinese and Irish in the 1800s and it isn't valid now....this country became great by bringing hardworking immigrants in.....my grandparents did it...they came through Ellis Island in the late 1800s......it was wrong to stop doing it....

if it gets too crowded, keep the immigrants and deport liberals.....

[82Marine89]

anyone that has a job paying them a living wage should be allowed a work visa.....if they don't have a job paying them a living wage they should not be allowed a work visa.....anyone who has a work visa and stays a sufficient period of time and passes all the other requirements of citizenship should be permitted to become a citizen.....all this "they steal our jobs" bullshit wasn't valid when it was used on the Chinese and Irish in the 1800s and it isn't valid now....this country became great by bringing hardworking immigrants in.....my grandparents did it...they came through Ellis Island in the late 1800s......it was wrong to stop doing it....

if it gets too crowded, keep the immigrants and deport liberals.....

Living wage? If they have a minimum wage job should we deport them? What if the job was gained by way of identity theft?

[HogTrash]

anyone that has a job paying them a living wage should be allowed a work visa.....if they don't have a job paying them a living wage they should not be allowed a work visa.....anyone who has a work visa and stays a sufficient period of time and passes all the other requirements of citizenship should be permitted to become a citizen.....all this "they steal our jobs" bullshit wasn't valid when it was used on the Chinese and Irish in the 1800s and it isn't valid now....this country became great by bringing hardworking immigrants in.....my grandparents did it...they came through Ellis Island in the late 1800s......it was wrong to stop doing it....

if it gets too crowded, keep the immigrants and deport liberals.....The issue is not "immigrants", but illegal aliens.

Most Americans have no problem with immigrants.

I do however like your idea about deporting liberals.

[PostmodernProphet]

Living wage? If they have a minimum wage job should we deport them? What if the job was gained by way of identity theft?

here is my proposal in full....a person can get a work visa if they have a job available in the US....if a company wants to hire someone who needs to get a work visa they must pay more than minimum wage.....they must commit to paying both a higher wage and full health care......if they are not willing to pay that then they must hire a citizen.....in addition, the employer must pay the government a surcharge of $1 per hour for the right to hire someone who needs a work visa.....that $1 will finance the cost of maintaining the work visa system.....

We reform the immigration department so that it is easy to enter the country through certain locations so long as you have a legitimate reason to enter.....this in turn will mean that the only people trying to enter across the desert will be those with no legitimate reason to enter......these will be dealt with forcefully....

the reformed immigration department will also be required to keep track of those in the country on work, education and tourist visas....people who's visas expire will be located and sent home.....

[PostmodernProphet]

The issue is not "immigrants", but illegal aliens.



this is where you go wrong.....there are illegal aliens because we limit immigration....more people want to come here than we let in on an annual basis....if someone wants to work and someone wants to hire them, why do we say "you can't live here"?........we just need to eliminate those who want to earn money by doing illegal things (the drug runners) and those who exploit illegal aliens by paying them less than minimum wage for day labor.......

[SpidermanTUba]

No such law should be passed without ensuring that future waves of illegal entry do not happen.

What is needed is tougher enforcement of our employment laws. Once that is in place - any non felonious illegals already established here should be given legal residency provided they plead guilty to the misdemeanor of illegal entry and pay the fine.

[namvet]

press 1 for english ????

[cat slave]

this is where you go wrong.....there are illegal aliens because we limit immigration....more people want to come here than we let in on an annual basis....if someone wants to work and someone wants to hire them, why do we say "you can't live here"?........we just need to eliminate those who want to earn money by doing illegal things (the drug runners) and those who exploit illegal aliens by paying them less than minimum wage for day labor.......

Oh so, we should let them do whatever they want to?

Mexico sure protects its borders.

The illegals come here to work and send $$ home to Mexico which of course
stimulates their economy and removes it from ours. They dont pay taxes,
live 30 to a house, get food stamps, welfare, and they all too frequently
just as they "broke into" our country, they run the roads drunk and kill
innocent citizens.

They take jobs from citizens because they undercut wages, which of course
will change if we let them take over as they have stated they want to!
When they have taken land, resourses, changed language and culture,
think they will work for less....hahahahaha, catch me that tooth fairy!!!!!!

Its a mystery to me that the black community does not see the writing on
the wall. Their minority status is going down the drain and they will be
left high and dry when America becomes Northern Mexico and NM will not
put up them.

They have stated their intent, didnt the massive demonstrations in CA
this week end give anyone a clue??? Who funded that? Who organized
that? They have no right to disobey or demand the end of our laws.

No jobs, no services, no problem....they will self deport. Enforce our
laws NOW!

[HogTrash]

this is where you go wrong.....there are illegal aliens because we limit immigration....more people want to come here than we let in on an annual basis....if someone wants to work and someone wants to hire them, why do we say "you can't live here"?........we just need to eliminate those who want to earn money by doing illegal things (the drug runners) and those who exploit illegal aliens by paying them less than minimum wage for day labor.......So in other words, it's America's fault that they are illegal because we don't have open borders?

Would it also be my fault if someone had to break into my house because I wouldn't invite them in?

Deny all you want but the truth of the matter is, you sir are a liberal who has come out of the closet.

[cat slave]

Guess murder is just deemed so because "accident" doesnt always cover it?

So immigration/invasion is only illegal because we actually have some laws
requiring a LEGAL process?

When will all Americans wake up and smell the coffee and starting putting their
fellow citizens first?

Borders are there for reasons and its not to be mean to anyone. They are
supposed to protect us from all the crap raining down on us from the south.
Borders regulate (or is supposed) who comes into OUR country. Borders help
protect from disease, protect our economy and our laws.

Its OUR frigging country...not theirs....we have laws....they can apply and
wait in line like all their predecessors have. Like ours did. They need to
put all that energy they expend on breaking into OUR country and keep it
in Mexico or wherever and change their country, stop swarming ours!

Mexico has oil and they still have poverty???? Whos fault it that? And
second to oil their next greatest source of $$ is the over $25 billion sent
back into the country by the illegals who broke in here. Poor babies, they
need to seek financial counseling or clean out their corrupt government
just like we are going to do and remember, we already bailed out Mexico
once before!!!!!!

PMP, your naivety is stunning.

[cat slave]

So in other words, it's America's fault that they are illegal because we don't have open borders?

Would it also be my fault if someone had to break into my house because I wouldn't invite them in?

Deny all you want but the truth of the matter is, you sir are a liberal who has come out of the closet.


Oh Hawg, you are good!!!! A few lines is all it took....I rambled but we meant
the same thing.

[cat slave]

One more thing, with all the companies that have relocated to Mexico why
are they invading America???? Seems they would have work if they stayed
home!

[namvet]

9wnL1jQSxVE

[HogTrash]

Oh Hawg, you are good!!!! A few lines is all it took....I rambled but we meant
the same thing.The sun even shines on a Hog's ass sometimes. :beer:

[Binky]

If you and me can come up with the solution, it should be as easy as figuring out the secret ingrediant in mud pie to the geniuses in Washington DC.


Yeah, no friggin' do do..... Over the years I have often wondered why people kept voting in those idiots letting them become lifers.....Well, most of them have had the majority of their adult lives to screw everything up.....:eek:

[Binky]

So in other words, it's America's fault that they are illegal because we don't have open borders?

Would it also be my fault if someone had to break into my house because I wouldn't invite them in?

Deny all you want but the truth of the matter is, you sir are a liberal who has come out of the closet.



He must have illegal friends and/or relatives or knows those that does. That's usually why people defend illegals...... I guess people are really that stupid and don't understand what illegal means.... DUH!!!!!!:eek: Which leads me to believe a lot of our politicians don't have an inkling as to its meaning.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Oh so, we should let them do whatever they want to?


???....how you could come to that conclusion after reading my posts confuses me.....okay, yeah.....if they have a job that pays them enough to live on so they won't be dependent on government and if they satisfy all the requirements to become a US citizen....they yeah, they can do 'whatever they want to'........

[PostmodernProphet]

They take jobs from citizens because they undercut wages

damned Irishmen....send em back where they came from!.....

[PostmodernProphet]

So in other words, it's America's fault that they are illegal because we don't have open borders?

Would it also be my fault if someone had to break into my house because I wouldn't invite them in?

Deny all you want but the truth of the matter is, you sir are a liberal who has come out of the closet.

you should recheck your history, son....the folks who objected to losing their jobs because of open immigration have always tended to support the Democrats.....between that and your blatant racism, it's pretty obvious which one of us is the true closet liberal......

[PostmodernProphet]

PMP, your naivety is stunning.

and your tendency to ignore what I have actually said and spread more bullshit is annoying.....who the fuck says it's impossible to have protected borders without having an intelligent and conservative approach to immigration.....anyone that thinks having a system that allows people who want to work to come here and work is a "liberal" concept is a fucking idiot.....

[PostmodernProphet]

He must have illegal friends and/or relatives or knows those that does. That's usually why people defend illegals...... I guess people are really that stupid and don't understand what illegal means.... DUH!!!!!!:eek: Which leads me to believe a lot of our politicians don't have an inkling as to its meaning.....

do you people have shit for brains?....I have never defended illegals....I have said we need an intelligent system for LEGAL immigration.....apparently you folks have rejected thinking in exchange for automatically opposing everything a liberal says....that isn't conservationism, that's idiocy....

tell me ONE thing that is wrong about allowing someone who is not a citizen to come to the US and become a citizen?.....it that isn't a conservative principle, tell me what is!.......

[hortysir]

Borders are there for reasons and its not to be mean to anyone. They are
supposed to protect us from all the crap raining down on us from the south.
Borders regulate (or is supposed) who comes into OUR country. Borders help
protect from disease, protect our economy and our laws.


This made me think of a film I saw, in middle school, entitled "Good fences make Good Neighbors"
:beer:

[PostmodernProphet]

are conservatives opposed to immigration?....
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2705


I . . . have thought of America as a place in the divine scheme of things that was set aside as a promised land . . . [A]nd the price of admission was very simple . . . Any place in the world and any person from these places; any person with the courage, with the desire to tear up their roots, to strive for freedom, to attempt and dare to live in a strange and foreign place, to travel halfway across the world was welcome here . . . I believe that God in shedding his grace on this country has always in this divine scheme of things kept an eye on our land and guided it as a promised land for these people. (emphasis added).
Ronald Reagan 1979
http://volokh.com/posts/1180077450.shtml


I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. (emphasis added)
Ronald Reagan, 1989

[HogTrash]

are conservatives opposed to immigration?....
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2705
Ronald Reagan recognized the importance of legal immigration and welcomed those who came here through the front door but absolutely did not condone illegal immigration.

This is obvious by the stipulation in his amnesty bill to insure the illegal immigration problem would never arise again...Unfortunately it was not adhered to by his successors.


Your Link: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2705

As with trade, Reagan's record on immigration was mixed. He signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, which included stepped up border enforcement and sanctions against employers who knowingly hire illegal workers. But that legislation also legalized 2.8 million undocumented workers.Reagans intentions were quite obvious...Did you misinterpret this part or just miss it?

[Kathianne]

Ronald Reagan recognized the importance of legal immigration and welcomed those who came here through the front door but absolutely did not condone illegal immigration.

This is obvious by the stipulation in his amnesty bill to insure the illegal immigration problem would never arise again...Unfortunately it was not adhered to by his successors.

Reagans intentions were quite obvious...Did you misinterpret this part or just miss it?

Yet Reagan gave amnesty, go figure?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/06/rudy-giuliani/yep-reagan-did-the-a-word/

I don't buy into that, it failed under Reagan and Carter. Losing position. Yes to legals, no to illegals. Fix the immigration laws/quotas and close the boarders.

[HogTrash]

Yet Reagan gave amnesty, go figure?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/06/rudy-giuliani/yep-reagan-did-the-a-word/

I don't buy into that, it failed under Reagan and Carter. Losing position. Yes to legals, no to illegals. Fix the immigration laws/quotas and close the boarders.Yes, it is true that Reagan granted amnesty to 2.8 million illegal aliens but he also "stepped up border enforcement and sanctions against employers who knowingly hire illegal workers" to make sure we would never have this problem again.

None of the presidents who succeded him, enforced his laws or secured our borders as reagan intended...None!...Now once again we are facing the same problem, only this time it is 5 fold...Amnesty is a proven failure and is in fact just another magnet for illegal immigrantion.

[PostmodernProphet]

Ronald Reagan recognized the importance of legal immigration and welcomed those who came here through the front door but absolutely did not condone illegal immigration.

/shrugs....neither do I.....but we're talking about a means to change illegal immigrants into legal immigrants....which, if you recall, is something else that Reagan did while president.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Yes, it is true that Reagan granted amnesty to 2.8 million illegal aliens but he also "stepped up border enforcement and sanctions against employers who knowingly hire illegal workers" to make sure we would never have this problem again.

None of the presidents who succeded him, enforced his laws or secured our borders as reagan intended...None!...Now once again we are facing the same problem, only this time it is 5 fold...Amnesty is a proven failure and is in fact just another magnet for illegal immigration.

you've just contradicted yourself....amnesty wasn't a proven failure.....not enforcing the laws in the same manner Reagan did was the proven failure....in addition, not increasing immigration quotas to a level realistic in terms of demand on both the part of immigrants and their employers, guaranteed that there would be illegal immigration that needed to be enforced against.....if there were NO limits or quotas for legal immigration there would be no illegal immigration......

it should be obvious....why would anyone enter illegally if they could freely enter legally?......

[82Marine89]

here is my proposal in full....a person can get a work visa if they have a job available in the US....if a company wants to hire someone who needs to get a work visa they must pay more than minimum wage.....they must commit to paying both a higher wage and full health care......if they are not willing to pay that then they must hire a citizen.....in addition, the employer must pay the government a surcharge of $1 per hour for the right to hire someone who needs a work visa.....that $1 will finance the cost of maintaining the work visa system.....

There are limits to the amount of work visas available, but I do know for a fact that individual industries can request a set amount of visas for a calender or fiscal year. This is so Americans will still have available jobs and not rely on the welfare system. As for paying more than minimum wage, why? Minimum wage jobs are primarily entry level jobs and if you give someone a living wage and free health care you just took away all incentive to improve themselves.

$1.00 an hour? Seriously? To finance a government agency? I want whatever you're smoking.



We reform the immigration department so that it is easy to enter the country through certain locations so long as you have a legitimate reason to enter.....this in turn will mean that the only people trying to enter across the desert will be those with no legitimate reason to enter......these will be dealt with forcefully....

the reformed immigration department will also be required to keep track of those in the country on work, education and tourist visas....people who's visas expire will be located and sent home.....


Reform a government agency? The years of Reagan are long gone. Government does not get smaller or efficient. It only grows and engulfs.

[HogTrash]

you should recheck your history, son....the folks who objected to losing their jobs because of open immigration have always tended to support the Democrats.....between that and your blatant racism, it's pretty obvious which one of us is the true closet liberal......I never complained about losing jobs but now that you mention it, at a time when the nation is experiencing 10% unemployment, this may be a bad time to grant amnesty to 12 million illegal alien workers.

And at a time when the nation is trillions of dollars in debt, this may be a bad time to burden our budget with 12 million illegal aliens sucking our meager resources dry...We simply can't afford to play Mr Nice Guy anymore.

But the number one reason is, most of these illegal aliens are not here to become Americans, they are here because they believe America rightfully belongs to indigenous Americans which is them, and they mean to take it back.

Your ignorant ass better start using your common sense instead of political correctness, or your children will be outnumbered by minorities someday soon and living in poverty and terror, wondering "why did dad lie to us"?

You sir, are the problem...I am the solution...When the day of reckoning comes, you will have to choose sides...That is of course, unless you are recognized as a liberal...Then you will be nothing more than a source of protein.

[Binky]

do you people have shit for brains?....I have never defended illegals....I have said we need an intelligent system for LEGAL immigration.....apparently you folks have rejected thinking in exchange for automatically opposing everything a liberal says....that isn't conservationism, that's idiocy....

tell me ONE thing that is wrong about allowing someone who is not a citizen to come to the US and become a citizen?.....it that isn't a conservative principle, tell me what is!.......



Nothing wrong with doing it the correct way. The way it is intended to be done..... Sometimes the tone in which something is said comes across as for the illegals.... Anyway, if I misunderstood what you were saying, I apoligize..........

[PostmodernProphet]

I never complained about losing jobs but now that you mention it, at a time when the nation is experiencing 10% unemployment, this may be a bad time to grant amnesty to 12 million illegal alien workers.

And at a time when the nation is trillions of dollars in debt, this may be a bad time to burden our budget with 12 million illegal aliens sucking our meager resources dry...We simply can't afford to play Mr Nice Guy anymore.

But the number one reason is, most of these illegal aliens are not here to become Americans, they are here because they believe America rightfully belongs to indigenous Americans which is them, and they mean to take it back.

Your ignorant ass better start using your common sense instead of political correctness, or your children will be outnumbered by minorities someday soon and living in poverty and terror, wondering "why did dad lie to us"?

You sir, are the problem...I am the solution...When the day of reckoning comes, you will have to choose sides...That is of course, unless you are recognized as a liberal...Then you will be nothing more than a source of protein.

talk about ignorant asses.....so these millions of illegal aliens who are currently stealing our jobs will be a burden on our economy because they aren't working?.....the only thing you are a solution to is the age old riddle, "just how stupid can a person be".....

[HogTrash]

/shrugs....neither do I.....but we're talking about a means to change illegal immigrants into legal immigrants....which, if you recall, is something else that Reagan did while president.....Another amnesty was never meant to be necessary again.

Reagan intended for the border to be closed and other measures to punish employers who hire them.

Don't you think 12 million illegal aliens is a few too many criminals to be granting amnesty to?

Seriously?...Who do you believe are the priorities?...American citizens or illegal aliens?

[HogTrash]

talk about ignorant asses.....so these millions of illegal aliens who are currently stealing our jobs will be a burden on our economy because they aren't working?.....the only thing you are a solution to is the age old riddle, "just how stupid can a person be".....I don't understand your question?

It makes absolutely no sense?...Did you mistype something?

[cat slave]

damned Irishmen....send em back where they came from!.....

How many Irishmen have you seen running across the ocean to enter
illegally?????

[cat slave]

I don't understand your question?

It makes absolutely no sense?...Did you mistype something?

Well, of course, "they" work, "they" work enough to send over 25 billion a
year back to Mexico and again, live piled up in a house with 20-30 others
of the same persuasion and local codes are bound to not cite them with
anything cause someone will holler "race"!

Just how many of those 60 thousand demonstrators want to become
Americans? ROTFL!!!! Last thing on their minds.

Have you for once thought about the lower educated citizens, the ones
with less ability to find work above that of a laborer? Yeah, they are
taking jobs and displacing citizens who dont know how to fight back.

And you dont think they are sucking us dry???? Been in a hospital ER
lately? ERs are less abundant than they used to be because many have
had to close because they were being used as walk in clinics. And who
picks up that tab? Surely you dont think those bills are paid by some
fairy with a government id. Its us, unless you are on the dole along with
so many who have learned to work the system.

[cat slave]

and your tendency to ignore what I have actually said and spread more bullshit is annoying.....who the fuck says it's impossible to have protected borders without having an intelligent and conservative approach to immigration.....anyone that thinks having a system that allows people who want to work to come here and work is a "liberal" concept is a fucking idiot.....


You contradict yourself. How can borders be secured with laws being made
that simply change the words around and ignore the law breakers.

ILLEGAL is Illegal unless there are no laws.

So, we will just say everyone is legal and citizens, then what? Everyone will
be happy and the economy will boom and all the drugs, crime and human trafficking will
just vanish into thin air, since of course everyone will be legal and no one
will be breaking into OUR country.

[cat slave]

do you people have shit for brains?....I have never defended illegals....I have said we need an intelligent system for LEGAL immigration.....apparently you folks have rejected thinking in exchange for automatically opposing everything a liberal says....that isn't conservationism, that's idiocy....

tell me ONE thing that is wrong about allowing someone who is not a citizen to come to the US and become a citizen?.....it that isn't a conservative principle, tell me what is!.......


Ahha! Boils down to the lib versus con, again, should I be surprised?

And what would be an "intelligent system"? And who would decide what is
intelligent and for what price?

Lets hear the "intelligent system" you profess to know all about.

[82Marine89]

talk about ignorant asses.....so these millions of illegal aliens who are currently stealing our jobs will be a burden on our economy because they aren't working?.....the only thing you are a solution to is the age old riddle, "just how stupid can a person be".....

Asses? Plural form? How many of us are you referring to? These millions of illegal aliens are a burden on our economy. How many do you think are working legally? Answer.... none. How many are stealing and or committing other crimes? Answer..... all of them. If they are working they are either committing identity theft or working off the books. They use our emergency rooms as doctors offices and we are the one's paying the bill. <---That would be a burden. People trying to repair their credit because someone stole their identity? <----That would be a burden. Two people paying into a Social Security account also creates a burden on the legal owner of the SSAN because now he or she will have to work longer since they do not get credit for any monies placed in the account if there are multiple names attached to the account. <----Very big burden.

Shall I continue?

[cat slave]

Please do go on!

[82Marine89]

Since Cat Slave asked...


and your tendency to ignore what I have actually said and spread more bullshit is annoying.....who the fuck says it's impossible to have protected borders without having an intelligent and conservative approach to immigration.....anyone that thinks having a system that allows people who want to work to come here and work is a "liberal" concept is a fucking idiot.....

Cussing is a sign of someone who has lost the ability to debate.

No one says you can not protect the borders and have an intelligent approach to immigration. Cool thing is this country already has one. Problem is it is not being enforced. The liberal concept we do not like and you seem to be blowing a valve over is called illegal immigration. Conservatives have no problem with legal immigration. None what so ever. We do have a problem with people who are willing to allow these crimes to go unpunished and actually believe in rewarding the criminal. <---That would be you.


do you people have shit for brains?....I have never defended illegals....I have said we need an intelligent system for LEGAL immigration.....apparently you folks have rejected thinking in exchange for automatically opposing everything a liberal says....that isn't conservationism, that's idiocy....

tell me ONE thing that is wrong about allowing someone who is not a citizen to come to the US and become a citizen?.....it that isn't a conservative principle, tell me what is!.......

Shit for brains? I prefer fecal matter floating around my brain housing group. You say you do not defend illegals but are willing to reward their crimes. Me thinks you are playing semantics and I give an example of semantics in my first sentence of this paragraph. As stated before we do have an intelligent legal immigration system and what we oppose is your willingness to give them a job and call them an American without them earning it legally.

Finally, there is nothing wrong with allowing someone who is not a citizen to become a citizen. We have a process for that and it does not involve entering my country illegally and being told that it is OK. That is no different than someone breaking in to your house, eating all of your food, sitting on your couch making themselves at home and the cops saying they will forgive them and while we are at it sign over the deed to your house because he is already living there.

[SassyLady]

There are stories coming out, that Congress is considering bills that offer a "Path to Citizenship" (a.k.a. "amnesty") to the illegal aliens who are already here, and let them stay in the country to work until they get it. Left unsaid, is the fact that millions more foreigners have applied for visas, followed the rules, and are also hoping for citizenship... but remain outside the country. Such a bill was also proposed years go, in 2005/6.

Is it a good idea to do this?

Keep in mind the one thing the illegal aliens have in common. Whether they are Mexican citizens who walked across the border, Norwegian college students who overstayed their visa, Russian sailors who shinnied down the anchor chain in New York, or Saudis who took a little vacation from the diplomatic mission, they are all people who have shown a disdain for American law, and have demonstrated that they are happy to break it.

This is who you want to keep in this country and make American citizens? While keeping out the people who respected U.S. law, obeyed it, and followed the rules?

No - I don't believe it is a good idea - we should enforce our current immigration laws. Those who have abided by the rules, regulations and restrictions to do it legally should be put ahead of any one else. As for the Amnesty/Path .... give them all a place to go fill out the paperwork and get the process started but they get in line just like anyone else and they go back to their home country until it is their turn, even if it takes decades.

The process is to help immigrants become immersed in the American culture and I believe too many illegals think they will be saved due to amnesty and don't even attempt to become immersed.

[SassyLady]

At the risk of sounding like a doom sayer, I think we are going to see worse before it gets better. I am a realist and I think we've had enough clues tossed at us over the last two decades. We no longer have the excuse that we didn't know anything was wrong........When we have a president that felt the urge to drop his pants to get a bj from a young niave woman, in the oval office of the most powerful government in the world, it's a huge clue that there is some very stinky poo going on in our country.....

So, Binky, what advice do you have to help us get through this "getting worse before it gets better" stage. Do we need to go back to basics, raising our own food, generators for electrical power, survival training???? Take all our money out of the banks and bury it on the property? I have been thinking long and hard about what we should be doing. Buying property in Wyoming?

[SassyLady]

And how do you suggest we go about finding the million of them? If the gov't hasn't found them yet, do you think it ever will?

Maybe it's time to crack down on the enablers....You know........the corporations, smaller companies and landlords that are all making a profit off of them..... Seems to me if we began enforcing the laws we have and hand out huge fines with jail time attached to all that enable them, you'd see illegals heading down the trail back from wence they came....It ain't brain surgery here. It's a matter of cracking down on the enablers. Make fines and jail time substantial enough for a large corp. to sit up and take notice. And if that doesn't work then increase it....

Crack down on landlords that allow illegals to live in their rentals. Most of those landlords are slumlords. So make them fix up those rentals so they are liveable for humans rather than cockroaches, spiders, bees whatever. Fine their butts and toss them in jail for every month they allow illegals to reside in their rentals.... Enforce the law......Cause them some pain. They are vermin living cushy lives off the plight of others..... Sickening.

It's rather simple in fact....take away their lifelines and the illegals would have no choice but to head back home.....

It would be a starting place. How about showing papers when purchasing clothes at Walmart, or groceries ..... no papers, no products. Check the papers at restaurants .... no papers, no food.

Heck, if there is a way to check status when buying gas .... special way to shut down pump if not legal....


I know I'm just fantasizing, but hey???!!! Start somewhere.

[red states rule]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/GM100430CLR-DemsImmi20100501042852.jpg

[PostmodernProphet]

I don't understand your question?

It makes absolutely no sense?...Did you mistype something?

it ought to make sense.....the fault is yours, not mine...you're trying to have it both ways.....they are taking your job, they aren't working.....choose one and stfu about the other.....

[PostmodernProphet]

How many Irishmen have you seen running across the ocean to enter
illegally?????

learn some history....it has nothing to do with "illegal".....it has to do with job protection.......job protectionism is a symptom of liberalism......."oh, the government needs to protect my job!"......

[PostmodernProphet]

You contradict yourself. How can borders be secured with laws being made that simply change the words around and ignore the law breakers.


???...don't be an idiot....borders are secured by force and it has nothing to do with amnesty.....



ILLEGAL is Illegal unless there are no laws.
and illegal will remain illegal so long as there is no viable route to legal.....look at it this way...suppose you have ten million people living in a city.....you pass a law that 655k of them are going to be allowed to enter the grocery store and buy food......what will happen.....



So, we will just say everyone is legal and citizens, then what? Everyone will
be happy and the economy will boom and all the drugs, crime and human trafficking will just vanish into thin air, since of course everyone will be legal and no one will be breaking into OUR country.

well, now that you mention it.....pretty much yes......once we develop a way for people with legitimate purpose to enter the country the only people trying to cross the desert will be those with illegitimate purpose.....and, since there won't be a screen of ten thousand other people doing the same thing, they will be easier to catch.......

[PostmodernProphet]

Ahha! Boils down to the lib versus con, again, should I be surprised?

And what would be an "intelligent system"? And who would decide what is
intelligent and for what price?

Lets hear the "intelligent system" you profess to know all about.

???....I already laid out the framework on this thread....did you not bother to read what I said before you decided to argue with me about it?.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Asses? Plural form? How many of us are you referring to?
direct reference to Hog's post.....if you take it personally, you may qualify.....



These millions of illegal aliens are a burden on our economy. How many do you think are working legally? Answer.... none. How many are stealing and or committing other crimes? Answer..... all of them. If they are working they are either committing identity theft or working off the books. They use our emergency rooms as doctors offices and we are the one's paying the bill. <---That would be a burden. People trying to repair their credit because someone stole their identity? <----That would be a burden. Two people paying into a Social Security account also creates a burden on the legal owner of the SSAN because now he or she will have to work longer since they do not get credit for any monies placed in the account if there are multiple names attached to the account. <----Very big burden.

Shall I continue?

yeah, because you haven't said anything that wouldn't be solved by my proposal.....

[PostmodernProphet]

Cool thing is this country already has one. [quote]Problem is it is not being enforced. The liberal concept we do not like and you seem to be blowing a valve over is called illegal immigration. Conservatives have no problem with legal immigration. None what so ever. We do have a problem with people who are willing to allow these crimes to go unpunished and actually believe in rewarding the criminal. <---That would be you.
no, it would not be me....the problem with this debate is you assume that anyone who doesn't like ONE thing you say, doesn't like EVERYTHING you say....you claim we have a good immigration policy.....no, we don't......we have a fucked up immigration policy that limits immigration to a random number....worse, it apportions that number between races.....our immigration policy is based on job protectionism.....our immigration policy is a liberal rather than a conservative immigration policy....and conservatives who argue without thinking are trying to preserve that liberal immigration policy while the liberals laugh at you......fix the immigration policy and it will be easy to fix the issue of border control.....because people with a legitimate reason to come here won't need to sneak across the border.....




Finally, there is nothing wrong with allowing someone who is not a citizen to become a citizen. We have a process for that and it does not involve entering my country illegally and being told that it is OK. That is no different than someone breaking in to your house, eating all of your food, sitting on your couch making themselves at home and the cops saying they will forgive them and while we are at it sign over the deed to your house because he is already living there.
you see, that's where you are wrong....becoming a citizen of this country legally is just slightly easier than winning the million dollar jackpot in the lottery.....and until you realize that, you're never going to solve the issue of illegal immigration....you'll just continue being some liberal politician's pawn.....

[HogTrash]

it ought to make sense.....the fault is yours, not mine...you're trying to have it both ways.....they are taking your job, they aren't working.....choose one and stfu about the other.....I suppose the reason I didn't understand it is because it had nothing to do with what I posted.

Anyway, how about the third option?...They go home as they would be forced to by my plan:


Here is how to effectively end illegal immigration forever.

Put an end to the rewards that bring illegal aliens to America...They are criminals and should be treated as such and so are the people that hire, harbor or assist them.

[1] Enact a law that will make it a crime with severe penelties for hiring illegal aliens.

[2] Enact a law that will make it a crime with severe penelties for anyone who rents a residence, houses, harbors or assists illegal aliens in anyway shape or form.

[3] End all government programs, benefits and services to anyone who is an illegal alien.

[4] End all educational benefits and schooling for the children of illegal aliens.

[5] End all medical treatment [other than life-threatening emergencies] for all illegal aliens.

[6] Retroactively, end the law that grants citizenship for babies born in the United States to illegal aliens.

[7] And forever halt the biggest magnet of all...End the practice of granting amnesty to illegal aliens...No exceptions.

Expensive border security would no longer be necessary because illegal immigration would cease immediately and those already here would self-deport when they had no job, no home, no government services or programs and no medical or educational benefits.

This is 100% fail proof. :bye1:

You never answered my question: Which do you believe should be the governments priority, US citizens or illegal aliens?

[PostmodernProphet]

You never answered my question: Which do you believe should be the governments priority, US citizens or illegal aliens?

???....moot question once they become US citizens....the reason your plan fails is that it does nothing to alleviate the pressure caused by the failure of the current immigration system to meet the demand for new labor.....

[Binky]

It would be a starting place. How about showing papers when purchasing clothes at Walmart, or groceries ..... no papers, no products. Check the papers at restaurants .... no papers, no food.

Heck, if there is a way to check status when buying gas .... special way to shut down pump if not legal....


I know I'm just fantasizing, but hey???!!! Start somewhere.


Actually, I had thought about that as well, and then changed my mind as a bit over the top..... Anyway, princess, I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or what until I read the last line......:laugh2::laugh2:

Heaven forbid tho', it could one day, come down to what you have suggested.......:eek:

[cat slave]

learn some history....it has nothing to do with "illegal".....it has to do with job protection.......job protectionism is a symptom of liberalism......."oh, the government needs to protect my job!"......

Then you must be one.

Refusal/inability to actually see the big picture or take any personal responsibility for anything.

Either you are illegal yourself or terminally dim. Take your pick. Or both.

[cat slave]

Since Cat Slave asked...



Cussing is a sign of someone who has lost the ability to debate.

No one says you can not protect the borders and have an intelligent approach to immigration. Cool thing is this country already has one. Problem is it is not being enforced. The liberal concept we do not like and you seem to be blowing a valve over is called illegal immigration. Conservatives have no problem with legal immigration. None what so ever. We do have a problem with people who are willing to allow these crimes to go unpunished and actually believe in rewarding the criminal. <---That would be you.



Shit for brains? I prefer fecal matter floating around my brain housing group. You say you do not defend illegals but are willing to reward their crimes. Me thinks you are playing semantics and I give an example of semantics in my first sentence of this paragraph. As stated before we do have an intelligent legal immigration system and what we oppose is your willingness to give them a job and call them an American without them earning it legally.

Finally, there is nothing wrong with allowing someone who is not a citizen to become a citizen. We have a process for that and it does not involve entering my country illegally and being told that it is OK. That is no different than someone breaking in to your house, eating all of your food, sitting on your couch making themselves at home and the cops saying they will forgive them and while we are at it sign over the deed to your house because he is already living there.

Great post. Thank you!!!! I dont know how to do "reps" so Ill just stand and
:clap::salute::clap:

[cat slave]

PMP dont you see you are way outa your league?

[PostmodernProphet]

Then you must be one.

Refusal/inability to actually see the big picture or take any personal responsibility for anything.

Either you are illegal yourself or terminally dim. Take your pick. Or both.

/shrugs.....I'm agreeing with Reagan, you're agreeing with labor unions.....which one of us is the liberal?.....

[PostmodernProphet]

PMP dont you see you are way outa your league?

lol....I have no desire to share your league....I'm comfortable being a conservative.....

[HogTrash]

???....moot question once they become US citizens....the reason your plan fails is that it does nothing to alleviate the pressure caused by the failure of the current immigration system to meet the demand for new labor.....The US is currently experiencing a 10% unemployment rate with no positive outlook for the near future.

[PostmodernProphet]

The US is currently experiencing a 10% unemployment rate with no positive outlook for the near future.

the problem of immigration didn't happen in the last year.....it's foolish to propose solutions that only deal with this year's economy......besides, did you pay any attention to my solution at all?....in order to get a work visa they have to show they have a job.....

[82Marine89]

direct reference to Hog's post.....if you take it personally, you may qualify.....

I do not take anything personal. You are nothing more than a scab on a whores ass to me.


yeah, because you haven't said anything that wouldn't be solved by my proposal.....

You propose rewarding criminals. I say enforce our laws and punish them.



no, it would not be me....the problem with this debate is you assume that anyone who doesn't like ONE thing you say, doesn't like EVERYTHING you say....you claim we have a good immigration policy.....no, we don't......we have a fucked up immigration policy that limits immigration to a random number....worse, it apportions that number between races.....our immigration policy is based on job protectionism.....our immigration policy is a liberal rather than a conservative immigration policy....and conservatives who argue without thinking are trying to preserve that liberal immigration policy while the liberals laugh at you......fix the immigration policy and it will be easy to fix the issue of border control.....because people with a legitimate reason to come here won't need to sneak across the border.....

I assume nothing. I read your rhetoric and can tell that no matter what I say you have already disregarded what I post. Our immigration policy is a good one that only needs enforcement.



you see, that's where you are wrong....becoming a citizen of this country legally is just slightly easier than winning the million dollar jackpot in the lottery.....and until you realize that, you're never going to solve the issue of illegal immigration....you'll just continue being some liberal politician's pawn.....


Liberal pawn? You sound like the bastard son of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. Nothing you spout is any different from what these socialists propose.

[red states rule]

Amazing how the liberal media, and Dems, support people who are here illegally.

Of course only those opposed to Obama and his polices are the racists and hurl personal attacks

Right?



<embed src="http://blip.tv/play/hJNRgduPZAI%2Em4v" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="480" height="360" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed>

[PostmodernProphet]

Our immigration policy is a good one that only needs enforcement.


why is it good.....because it keeps the non-whites out of the country?......

[PostmodernProphet]

Liberal pawn? You sound like the bastard son of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. Nothing you spout is any different from what these socialists propose.

I'm not the one trying to protect jobs from the "coloreds" to keep the unions happy.....you're the one sounding like a liberal hack.....what I proposed is what Reagan proposed....are you calling Reagan a socialist?.....

[Binky]

So, Binky, what advice do you have to help us get through this "getting worse before it gets better" stage. Do we need to go back to basics, raising our own food, generators for electrical power, survival training???? Take all our money out of the banks and bury it on the property? I have been thinking long and hard about what we should be doing. Buying property in Wyoming?


Well, I think each of us would be better off to begin cleaning out our minds and tossing out the gunk we've con't to hold onto. Change our mindsets and decide what are the important things in our lives. Is it all the material goods we buy? Is it food we cram down getting fatter in an effort to push down the mental angishes we can't get past? Or is it the family, friends, co workers that are in our lives? What makes us happy? What does one love to do that brings lasting enjoyment and peace of mind? Is it the money we make and squander?

And as silly as it may sound, since you asked, it may not be a bad idea to think about surviving without the luxury of electricity, heat etc.... If it all breaks down, there won't be any of that.... A generator isn't a bad idea. Think survival.... Food,(dried, etc., things that will last), water, medicines. (make or purchase an emergency med. kit). Blankets and plenty of them if in cold climates. Warm clothing. Flashlights, ( I have two that have a crank on the side to wind them up, then repeat as light dims and one is a small lantern.) Check sporting goods stores. No batteries or kerosene needed. Fishing gear. Nothing fancy. Just a couple of poles, some hooks, sinkers, lures etc. Matches. A small cheap grill and charcoal or use wood chips etc. And the most important thing is to have a couple of good firearms and ammo. (no pea shooters. Too small, no stopping power) A large knife with a big sturdy blade wouldn't hurt.

I hope this never happens. As I said, I am a realist. Things are getting tougher everyday. It pays to be prepared. At least as much as one is able to. Have a back up plan............. My hubby lives and works down state, two hours from me and comes here on the weekends.....I've told him that if we have a societal breakdown or any huge event, and he's at work, to walk out the door, and head straight for the back route we have planned for him to get to me.....And he isn't to worry about our other place and furnishings that he lives in....Just to get here in one piece..... So a quick exit out of town before any chaos begins is extremely important.......

[82Marine89]

why is it good.....because it keeps the non-whites out of the country?......


I'm not the one trying to protect jobs from the "coloreds" to keep the unions happy.....you're the one sounding like a liberal hack.....what I proposed is what Reagan proposed....are you calling Reagan a socialist?.....

Wow! The race card being played. Sure didn't see that one coming. :eek:

By playing the race card as you just did shows that you no longer possess the capability to debate but are attempting to shamelessly attack me in hopes I will cower when faced with such an accusation. What you have done is nothing less than a disservice to the word itself and takes away from those that actually are the victims of racism.

As for Mr. Reagan, you are no Ronald Reagan.

Keep trying and get back to me when you are ready to debate. :slap:

[PostmodernProphet]

Wow! The race card being played. Sure didn't see that one coming. :eek:

lol, dude....this debate is ABOUT race....playing the race card is bringing it up in an argument where it has no place......you can't discuss immigration policy in this country WITHOUT dealing with the issue of race.....

[PostmodernProphet]

As for Mr. Reagan, you are no Ronald Reagan.


actually, in this debate I am.....did you bother to read the Reagan quotes I posted earlier.....


Keep trying and get back to me when you are ready to debate
I'll stop by again the next time I see you need your ass handed to you....

[82Marine89]

lol, dude....this debate is ABOUT race....playing the race card is bringing it up in an argument where it has no place......you can't discuss immigration policy in this country WITHOUT dealing with the issue of race.....

That's right Mr. Sharpton. I forgot that there are no white illegal immigrants. Only brown ones. Keep trying.


actually, in this debate I am.....did you bother to read the Reagan quotes I posted earlier.....

Sorry, but you don't rate being compared to the Honorable Ronaldus Magnus,



I'll stop by again the next time I see you need your ass handed to you....

You have not handed me anything and if you want to go one-on-one, let's dance.

[Trigg]

lol, dude....this debate is ABOUT race....playing the race card is bringing it up in an argument where it has no place......you can't discuss immigration policy in this country WITHOUT dealing with the issue of race.....

on the contrary, it is very easy to talk about immigration without race.

Here ya go.

People who come here legally, from what ever country, are welcome.

People who sneak in or over stay their visa, from what ever country, need to go home.

See, simple, race need not be brought up at all.

Fine anyone caught employing illegals, use e-verify, screen criminals and build a wall along our southern border since the majority of illegals are sneaking in that way. As for the Asian, African and European illegals, ship their asses out.

[PostmodernProphet]

Fine anyone caught employing illegals, use e-verify, screen criminals and build a wall along our southern border since the majority of illegals are sneaking in that way. As for the Asian, African and European illegals, ship their asses out.

lol....right....no reason to mention race....

[PostmodernProphet]

Sorry, but you don't rate being compared to the Honorable Ronaldus Magnus,



care to comment on the Reagan quotes I posted?.....

[Trigg]

lol....right....no reason to mention race....

Why would you need to?

Should race be considered when someone robs a bank? Shoots someone? Steals??

Illegals come in every color. If they're illegal SHIP THEIR ASSES OUT.

Illegal immigration has nothing to do with race it has everything to do with FOLLOWING THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY.

:salute::salute::salute::salute::salute::salute::s alute::salute::salute:

[PostmodernProphet]

Why would you need to?


perhaps you could answer it better since you apparently needed to in the post I quoted.....or when you mentioned our southern border, and Asians and Africans were you discussing something other than race......

[KarlMarx]

Q: Should illegal aliens be allowed to stay, and offered a "Path to Citizenship"?

A: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trigg]

perhaps you could answer it better since you apparently needed to in the post I quoted.....or when you mentioned our southern border, and Asians and Africans were you discussing something other than race......


As for the Asian, African and European illegals, ship their asses out.

As you can see here, I included every race and Continent. If a person is illegal, no matter where they come from, they need to GO HOME.

It isn't a secret that most of our illegal immigrants come across our Southern Border. Again, no need to mention race at all. Mexicans come in all races just as American's do. If they're legal than welcome, if not GO HOME.

You would like to contend that people are against amnesty because of race, NOT TRUE AT ALL. People are against amnesty because the illegals have broken our laws and, much like other criminals, they should not be given a pass.
There are a lot of criminals, to many for us to lock up them all, why not just forget about any laws and give up? I'm sure they'll straighten up on their own.

[PostmodernProphet]

It isn't a secret that most of our illegal immigrants come across our Southern Border. Again, no need to mention race at all.

you mean it goes without saying.....

[PostmodernProphet]

You would like to contend that people are against amnesty because of race, NOT TRUE AT ALL.

but my question was about immigration....

[82Marine89]

care to comment on the Reagan quotes I posted?.....

Care to respond to the rest of my post?

[82Marine89]

Wow! The race card being played. Sure didn't see that one coming. :eek:

By playing the race card as you just did shows that you no longer possess the capability to debate but are attempting to shamelessly attack me in hopes I will cower when faced with such an accusation. What you have done is nothing less than a disservice to the word itself and takes away from those that actually are the victims of racism.




lol, dude....this debate is ABOUT race....playing the race card is bringing it up in an argument where it has no place......you can't discuss immigration policy in this country WITHOUT dealing with the issue of race.....


You never responded to the second paragraph either.

[Kathianne]

Amnesty is not a good idea. Every time it's been used, there has allows been the call for increased border security, including under Reagan. Since most of those here keep using Reagan as the ideal approach, please find some proof that the administration did enforce the security of the US with 'increased vigilance.' I've looked and cannot find any examples that it was done.

Reagan did with illegals what Carter did with Haitians, what Bush and now Obama want to do again.

[SpidermanTUba]

Here's an idea. Stop using products and services made by companies that employ illegal labor.

[PostmodernProphet]

Care to respond to the rest of my post?

sure, by pretending this debate is not about race you are dodging the issue....you've tried to shift the debate from a legitimate topic to whether or not I'm trying to make you feel bad....it's a common ploy, didn't realize it needed a response....now that we have that out of the way, why do you feel that you better represent Reagan's views on immigration when the quotes I present of him mirror my own position instead of yours?.....

[PostmodernProphet]

You never responded to the second paragraph either.

tha't because I wasn't "playing the race card"......being accused of doing so does not automatically vault the accuser into the position of being due a response.......

[PostmodernProphet]

Amnesty is not a good idea. Every time it's been used, there has allows been the call for increased border security, including under Reagan. Since most of those here keep using Reagan as the ideal approach, please find some proof that the administration did enforce the security of the US with 'increased vigilance.' I've looked and cannot find any examples that it was done.


again....you have adequately demonstrated that the system fails if we don't have proper border security, but that is the failing of security....amnesty is NOT a demonstrated failure....bad border security is.....is it not obvious that border security will be easier to maintain if people with legitimate purpose in being here can cross legally?.....so that the only people crossing illegally are those without legitimate purpose?.....is it not also obvious that a person who is willing to work for a person who is willing to hire them has a legitimate purpose in being here?.....

under our current system, people with a legitimate purpose for being here are not permitted to enter legally.....

[Little-Acorn]

sure, by pretending this debate is not about race you are dodging the issue....

tha't because I wasn't "playing the race card"......
The two quotes above, appeared in two consecutive posts with no intervening interruption from anyone else.

George Orwell called this "doublethink" - a way of completely forgetting the point you just made, for the purpose of making a completely different and often flatly contradictory point.

Orwell did not go so far as to call this a mental deficiency. He simply presented it as an odd trick, and let his readers draw their own conclusions.

[PostmodernProphet]

The two quotes above, appeared in two consecutive posts with no intervening interruption from anyone else.

George Orwell called this "doublethink" - a way of completely forgetting the point you just made, for the purpose of making a completely different and often flatly contradictory point.

Orwell did not go so far as to call this a mental deficiency. He simply presented it as an odd trick, and let his readers draw their own conclusions.

???....."playing the race card" is raising the issue where it is not relevant......you can hardly claim race is not relevant in this thread.....

[Little-Acorn]

???....."playing the race card" is raising the issue where it is not relevant......you can hardly claim race is not relevant in this thread.....

Don't you love it when hysterical leftists start telling you which positions you can and can't hold?

They're so cute when they do that.........! :cheers2:

[DragonStryk72]

Actually, oddly enough, I'm actually pro-Path to Citizenship, but they are going to repay every dime. Yes, they're going to pay those costs for the paperwork that they got around, but using the various studies that have been done in the area, we're going to hit them for back taxes on the average wage they were being paid previously, along with fines for tax evasion.

Screw this shipping them off crap, they owe us a ton of money, and we could likely make a solid dent in the national debt if just got the money out of them.

[Little-Acorn]

Actually, oddly enough, I'm actually pro-Path to Citizenship, but they are going to repay every dime. Yes, they're going to pay those costs for the paperwork that they got around, but using the various studies that have been done in the area, we're going to hit them for back taxes on the average wage they were being paid previously, along with fines for tax evasion.

Screw this shipping them off crap, they owe us a ton of money, and we could likely make a solid dent in the national debt if just got the money out of them.
You can't get blood from a turnip.

Deporting them is the first step of getting ANY of that money back. Total up the ill, and hand it to them on their way out the door. When they show up at a U.S. Embassy with a receipt marked "Paid in Full"... wih corresponding records we can verify in Washington DC... THEN they can fill out an application for a visa, along with everyone else who wants to come here. And when we run the routine background check, and find that they have crossed the border illegally an gotten deported for it in the past, their application goes to the very back of the line. Those who never crashed the border, and who filled out the visa app, and obeyed the law, are at the front of the line, and get in first.

The ones we hand that bill to, who never show up again, are just that much paperwork we don't have to process. "Next, please."

[hortysir]

Here's an idea. Stop using products and services made by companies that employ illegal labor.
Had a discussion, last night, about how we may have stopped slavery in our own country but we still condone and support it by trading with other countries that still use slave or child labor for production.

:poke:
What's the dif?

[DragonStryk72]

You can't get blood from a turnip.

Deporting them is the first step of getting ANY of that money back. Total up the ill, and hand it to them on their way out the door. When they show up at a U.S. Embassy with a receipt marked "Paid in Full"... wih corresponding records we can verify in Washington DC... THEN they can fill out an application for a visa, along with everyone else who wants to come here. And when we run the routine background check, and find that they have crossed the border illegally an gotten deported for it in the past, their application goes to the very back of the line. Those who never crashed the border, and who filled out the visa app, and obeyed the law, are at the front of the line, and get in first.

The ones we hand that bill to, who never show up again, are just that much paperwork we don't have to process. "Next, please."

Not a chance they'd do it, though. Loansharks have the right of it, never let someone out of your reach when they owe you money. Simple enough to keep them here since they're already here, and we make a profit, as opposed to a loss

[PostmodernProphet]

Don't you love it when hysterical leftists start telling you which positions you can and can't hold?

They're so cute when they do that.........! :cheers2:

lol.....I state the same policy as Reagan and suddenly I'm an hysterical leftist?....no wonder most people think the Republican party has lost it's way....

[Trigg]

lol.....I state the same policy as Reagan and suddenly I'm an hysterical leftist?....no wonder most people think the Republican party has lost it's way....

Reagan's amnesty didn't work though did it!

He created a path to citizenship for 3 million illegals and now we have 10 million.

He made it illegal to knowingly hire illegals. That worked real well :lame2:


AMNESTY DOES NOT WORK.

We already tried it and our illegal population has only grown. Build a wall, fine all people found to employ illegals, deny them rentals. If they can't find work or a place to live they will leave.

[Missileman]

The "path" to citizenship should start on the Mexican side of the border.

[82Marine89]

sure, by pretending this debate is not about race you are dodging the issue....you've tried to shift the debate from a legitimate topic to whether or not I'm trying to make you feel bad....it's a common ploy, didn't realize it needed a response....now that we have that out of the way, why do you feel that you better represent Reagan's views on immigration when the quotes I present of him mirror my own position instead of yours?.....

It is not about race. Illegal immigrants are white as well. It is not a race specific crime.

As for Reagan, he was wrong on immigration.

[82Marine89]

tha't because I wasn't "playing the race card"......being accused of doing so does not automatically vault the accuser into the position of being due a response.......

You played the race card. Plain and simple.

[PostmodernProphet]

As for Reagan, he was wrong on immigration.

ah, so you're conservative and Reagan isn't?.....

[82Marine89]

ah, so you're conservative and Reagan isn't?.....

Don't try and twist this. Reagan was a conservative, but that doesn't mean everything he did was right. Amnesty was his biggest mistake. Also, when he gave amnesty, it was not just to the browns, he included blacks, whites, and yellows as well because he knew that the illegal immigrants came in all shapes, colors, and creeds. I disagreed with amnesty as a whole, not just amnesty for brown folk and I still disagree with amnesty for all illegal immigrants. I notice you won't respond to my comments about race because you know you are wrong.

That clear enough for you Mr. Jackson?

[PostmodernProphet]

Don't try and twist this. Reagan was a conservative, but that doesn't mean everything he did was right. Amnesty was his biggest mistake. Also, when he gave amnesty, it was not just to the browns, he included blacks, whites, and yellows as well because he knew that the illegal immigrants came in all shapes, colors, and creeds. I disagreed with amnesty as a whole, not just amnesty for brown folk and I still disagree with amnesty for all illegal immigrants. I notice you won't respond to my comments about race because you know you are wrong.

That clear enough for you Mr. Jackson?

all except for the part that somehow YOU'VE been made the judge on which view of amnesty is more the mistake.....that may be your opinion, but in mine you've fucked things up royally......I've not responded to your comments about race because they are obviously false shields........you can pretend all you want that you have objection to all illegal immigrants regardless of race, but the simple reality is the number of non minority illegal immigrants is insignificant......perhaps that because our immigration system permits more European legal immigrants than want to come here while limiting South American and Asian immigration to even lower numbers.....

[Trigg]

all except for the part that somehow YOU'VE been made the judge on which view of amnesty is more the mistake.....that may be your opinion, but in mine you've fucked things up royally......I've not responded to your comments about race because they are obviously false shields........you can pretend all you want that you have objection to all illegal immigrants regardless of race, but the simple reality is the number of non minority illegal immigrants is insignificant......perhaps that because our immigration system permits more European legal immigrants than want to come here while limiting South American and Asian immigration to even lower numbers.....

Care to even TRY to prove that part???????


While your at it you should try to explain how Reagan's amnesty helped. He granted amesnty 20 years ago to 3 million illegals. We now have 10 million.

Are we just going to grant amnesty again in 20 years to 20 million illegals?????

[HogTrash]

You played the race card. Plain and simple.
ah, so you're conservative and Reagan isn't?.....Watching 2 liberals argue is like watching a chick-fight. :laugh2:

[PostmodernProphet]

Care to even TRY to prove that part???????


While your at it you should try to explain how Reagan's amnesty helped. He granted amesnty 20 years ago to 3 million illegals. We now have 10 million.

Are we just going to grant amnesty again in 20 years to 20 million illegals?????

from wiki...
immigration laws from 1924 through 1965....

The Immigration Act of 1924, or Johnson–Reed Act, including the National Origins Act, Asian Exclusion Act (43 Statutes-at-Large 153), was a United States federal law that limited the number of immigrants who could be admitted from any country to 2% of the number of people from that country who were already living in the United States in 1890, down from the 3% cap set by the Immigration Restriction Act of 1921, according to the Census of 1890. It excluded immigration of Asians. It superseded the 1921 Emergency Quota Act. The law was aimed at further restricting the Southern and Eastern Europeans who were immigrating in large numbers starting in the 1890s, as well as prohibiting the immigration of East Asians and Asian Indians.


immigration laws since 1965

An annual limitation of 300,000 visas was established for immigrants, including 170,000 from Eastern Hemisphere countries, with no more than 20,000 per country. By 1968, the annual limitation from the Western Hemisphere was set at 120,000 immigrants, with visas available on a first-come, first-served basis.
20k per country limit.....that limit for most European countries goes unused, while 20k for Mexico is obviously inadequate to meet demand......


Are we just going to grant amnesty again in 20 years to 20 million illegals?????

if they follow my proposal there won't be any illegals to grant amnesty to in twenty years....

[PostmodernProphet]

Watching 2 liberals argue is like watching a chick-fight. :laugh2:

you have to be out of your frickin' mind to call me a liberal....

[HogTrash]

you have to be out of your frickin' mind to call me a liberal....Anyone who believe's amnesty is a viable option for the illegal immigration problem has liberal leanings or at the least very poor judgement. :dunno:

[Trigg]

20k per country limit.....that limit for most European countries goes unused, while 20k for Mexico is obviously inadequate to meet demand......



if they follow my proposal there won't be any illegals to grant amnesty to in twenty years....

It seems to me that the immigration laws are fair 20K per country, I see race wasn't mentioned just countries btw.

"Inadequate to meet demand", well looking at apprehensions the last few years, which peaked to 1.67 million and is now down to 700,000 we should be giving visas to 2 million people annually, after all we don't' want to forget those that stuck in and didn't get caught. Great idea!!!!!

[PostmodernProphet]

Anyone who believe's amnesty is a viable option for the illegal immigration problem has liberal leanings or at the least very poor judgement. :dunno:

anybody who thinks you can control illegal immigration while not having an operative immigration system is an idiot......anyone who thinks we should keep people out who want to work for someone who wants to hire them has liberal leanings....

[PostmodernProphet]

It seems to me that the immigration laws are fair 20K per country, I see race wasn't mentioned just countries btw.

"Inadequate to meet demand", well looking at apprehensions the last few years, which peaked to 1.67 million and is now down to 700,000 we should be giving visas to 2 million people annually, after all we don't' want to forget those that stuck in and didn't get caught. Great idea!!!!!

we're going to throw out 20 million people who came here to fill jobs that needed filling.....now we're going to let them back in at the rate of 20k a year?....yeah, that will be adequate....

[Insein]

we're going to throw out 20 million people who came here to fill jobs that needed filling.....now we're going to let them back in at the rate of 20k a year?....yeah, that will be adequate....

As I see it, alot of Americans are looking for work right now. Over 10% of the available workforce is not working. Removing 20 million people who are not American citizens is bound to open up a few jobs here and there.

[HogTrash]

anybody who thinks you can control illegal immigration while not having an operative immigration system is an idiot......anyone who thinks we should keep people out who want to work for someone who wants to hire them has liberal leanings....And you don't believe you're a liberal. :laugh2:

[82Marine89]

all except for the part that somehow YOU'VE been made the judge on which view of amnesty is more the mistake.....that may be your opinion, but in mine you've fucked things up royally......I've not responded to your comments about race because they are obviously false shields........you can pretend all you want that you have objection to all illegal immigrants regardless of race, but the simple reality is the number of non minority illegal immigrants is insignificant......perhaps that because our immigration system permits more European legal immigrants than want to come here while limiting South American and Asian immigration to even lower numbers.....

You call the Race Card and when proven wrong you continue to call me a racist. Bottom line is they come in all creeds and colors. None are insignificant.