Education reform

[gabosaurus]

You may be wondering (or not) "Where did that dang Gabosaurus run off to?" The answer is: I got to speak before a Congressional committee working on Education Reform.

What I was proposing amounted to a massive bailout of the public education system. Public schools are being forced to make drastic cuts. Which is a shame, since education is our country's most valuable resource.
Our government needs to invest heavily in Head Start programs, along with after school programs and alternative education. We need to keep kids in school, have them graduate and make higher education available to everyone.
A kid who drops out of high school is normally lost to society. The more education you have, the better your job possibilities are.

There are many other programs that can be cut instead of education. Primarily defense spending. There are a lot of archaic weaponry still being produced merely because no one wants to close the places where such items are built.
Not to mention the Pentagon, which is horribly bloated and overstaffed. The military hierarchy can be weeded out at a tremendous savings.

But the main emphasis is on education. We need more teachers and educational support, not less. We need better schools and better programs.
Some members of Congress firmly oppose this, of course. Since uneducated citizens usually become Republicans. :p

[Trigg]

What I was proposing amounted to a massive bailout of the public education system. Public schools are being forced to make drastic cuts. Which is a shame, since education is our country's most valuable resource.
Our government needs to invest heavily in Head Start programs, along with after school programs and alternative education. We need to keep kids in school, have them graduate and make higher education available to everyone.
A kid who drops out of high school is normally lost to society. The more education you have, the better your job possibilities are.


I would argue that the reason public schools, especially in cities, are making drastic cuts is because they are spending a ridiculous amount on reduced lunches, breakfasts and reduced book fees for low income children.

Before you get uptight and accuse me of wanting to starve these poor children, why not ask yourself. Why can't the parents who are receiving food stamps, from the gov. or state, be required to pack their childrens lunches and breakfasts???????????????

[gabosaurus]

We need to get kids in schools in whatever way possible.
A better way to control spending would be to stop admitting children of illegal aliens. But the schools are opposed to this because federal funding to schools is on a per student basis. This is what needs to be changed.

[Nukeman]

We need to get kids in schools in whatever way possible.
A better way to control spending would be to stop admitting children of illegal aliens. But the schools are opposed to this because federal funding to schools is on a per student basis. This is what needs to be changed.

My God I think a snowball just wizzed by satans head!!!!!!!!:laugh2:

I agree with you 100%:dance:

[KarlMarx]

We need to get kids in schools in whatever way possible.
A better way to control spending would be to stop admitting children of illegal aliens. But the schools are opposed to this because federal funding to schools is on a per student basis. This is what needs to be changed.
OK... who is the wise guy that stole Gabasaurus's ID? I'm calling LifeLock! :)

[darin]

...education reform? Hold teachers and parents and students accountable. School Vouchers for all...and No property tax (or the portion that goes to schools) for parents who home-school or pay for private schooling.

Fire the liberal-whack-job prof's now occupying most of the State College institutions would be a good second step. Right now there isn't much College has to offer in the way of academic honesty.

[SassyLady]

When I was a kid we knew the only way out of poverty was to go to school and get an education.....get a better job, etc.

Today, kids think they don't need an education to be successful for various reasons .... they think they can become successful as athletes, rock stars, movie stars, reality stars, drug czars, welfare queens, you name it .... there are just too many ways to make money and getting an education isn't as appealing to them.

Also, school was exciting when I was a kid ..... the alternative was staying home and doing chores or working in the fields. Today the alternative for kids is staying home and playing video games or computer games - there is no consequence for not doing well in school.

Education reform needs to start at home .... parents need to quit giving kids a choice about where their focus should be. I am tired of wasteful spending and I'm not convinced that spending money on schools is productive. Perhaps we should be putting parents through some type of educational process about turning off the tv, phone, computers, etc. so kids actually find school exciting enough to tune in.

[SpidermanTUba]

I would argue that the reason public schools, especially in cities, are making drastic cuts is because they are spending a ridiculous amount on reduced lunches, breakfasts and reduced book fees for low income children.

Yeah, school children don't need BOOKS


Before you get uptight and accuse me of wanting to starve these poor children, why not ask yourself. Why can't the parents who are receiving food stamps, from the gov. or state, be required to pack their childrens lunches and breakfasts???????????????
Well heck, if its as easy as simply requiring it, why don't we require they send their kids to Harvard?

[Nukeman]

Yeah, school children don't need BOOKS


Well heck, if its as easy as simply requiring it, why don't we require they send their kids to Harvard?

A lot of states don't have parents pay a dime for children to go to public school. In Indiana you have to RENT the books your child will use. This means they have new books every 4 years and EVERY child has a book. The cost is not that much a year less than most of these welfare recipients spend on beer or cigs.

Now can you say the same in your state that EVERY child can bring a book home from the public system??? I think not....

Besides she didn't say they DIDN'T need books she said do away with some of the subsidies. A single mother of 3 in Indiana receives 600.00 dollars a month for food now why the fuck do they need free lunches and breakfast as well on top of this money. Our family of 6 doesn't spend that much every month....

Why can't we require that if your getting assistance from one place it should be illegal to DOUBLE DIP... Or are you REALLY that STUPID

[SpidermanTUba]

The cost is not that much a year less than most of these welfare recipients spend on beer or cigs.

How much do they spend on beer and cigs?

[Nukeman]

How much do they spend on beer and cigs?

Don't really know why don't you tell us how much you spend so I will have an idea!!!!!!!!!!!!:coffee:

IF the buy any its too damn much if your on assistance.

By the way nice of you to ignore the question about DOUBLE DIPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[SpidermanTUba]

Don't really know....


If you don't know then how do you know its more than the cost to rent books in Indiana?

[Nukeman]

If you don't know then how do you know its more than the cost to rent books in Indiana?

Books in Indiana run about 130.00 a year. divide that by 12 months that works out to 10.83 or about 2 packs of cigs or 1 case of cheep beer every month.. Are you telling me your really this stupid?????????????????

And still no comment on DOUBLE DIPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HMMMMM

[SpidermanTUba]

Books in Indiana run about 130.00 a year. divide that by 12 months that works out to 10.83 or about 2 packs of cigs or 1 case of cheep beer every month.. Are you telling me your really this stupid?????????????????

I'm not telling you anything. You made a quantitative assertion about how much people on welfare spend on smokes and cigarettes. To do this you need to know the actual quantities involved. So please, tell me, how much do they spend, and back it up with evidence.

[cat slave]

Books in Indiana run about 130.00 a year. divide that by 12 months that works out to 10.83 or about 2 packs of cigs or 1 case of cheep beer every month.. Are you telling me your really this stupid?????????????????

And still no comment on DOUBLE DIPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HMMMMM

Oh hell, when I was a kid my parents had to buy my books every year along
with my tablets, pencils etc.

When did that stop being part of parenting?

[cat slave]

I sub teach at a rural high school. The kids cannot be failed/held back
for not learning a blooming thing but if they miss too many days they
get in trouble. Whats wrong with the picture?

Ive got a friend who went back to teaching after retirement and she had
to pass kids who couldnt speak a word of English or do the work. Again...
anyone but me think this is out of hand?

It started going down the tubes when school became more about social
engineering and feeling good than learning basic skills like reading, 'rithmetic,
and all that very basic stuff.

We cant have achievers because it might make someone who does diddly
squat feel bad. So, smart kids are dumbed down and or lose interest.

I still say, bring "school" into the 21st century. Abolish the mafia type
teachers union, have classes on line, bring them to a centralized testing
center periodically and if they dont make the cut, they dont progress in
school. Think of the money that would be saved if buildings did not have
to be maintained, fleets of buses maintained, gassed up at great expense,
janitors to keep the buildings clean...no assistants, no subs, no drivers, just lessons
on a laptop provided by the educational system with the appropriate
soft ware and all other activities on it blocked.

The system is still being run like it was in the 1800s, time to change

[SpidermanTUba]

Oh hell, when I was a kid my parents had to buy my books every year along
with my tablets, pencils etc.

When did that stop being part of parenting?

It stopped being a part of "parenting" in Louisiana when we decided every child had a right to an education regardless of the ability or willingness of their parents to pay for it. Textbooks as well as school bus transportation are supplied fee free to ALL school students here - public AND private.

[SpidermanTUba]

I still say, bring "school" into the 21st century. Abolish the mafia type
teachers union, have classes on line, bring them to a centralized testing
center periodically and if they dont make the cut, they dont progress in
school. Think of the money that would be saved if buildings did not have
to be maintained, fleets of buses maintained, gassed up at great expense,
janitors to keep the buildings clean...no assistants, no subs, no drivers, just lessons on a laptop provided by the educational system with the appropriate
soft ware and all other activities on it blocked.

So your plan is to have every family go back to a single earner model with one parent at home during the day to look after the kids? Yeah that won't cost the economy a dime. Seriously why not just do home schooling? Or is it your plan to have 6 year olds sit at home unsupervised all day long with a lap top?




The system is still being run like it was in the 1800s, time to change If the system were being run like it was in the 1800's kids would actually be learning.

[SassyLady]

It started going down the tubes when school became more about social
engineering and feeling good than learning basic skills like reading, 'rithmetic,
and all that very basic stuff.

We cant have achievers because it might make someone who does diddly
squat feel bad. So, smart kids are dumbed down and or lose interest.


Agree with you 100% on this aspect. In fact my daughter is currently engaged in discussions with school board over this issue. The director of the school's child is having difficulty (in same class with my grandson) so they have asked the teacher to not give out so much homework.

So, instead of requiring the one child to work harder, they've decided to relax the standards ..... and now my grandson is bored.

School will be out in less than 30 days and the board is delaying hoping that it will resolve itself over the summer. My daughter has decided to put him in another school. Thankfully she has the resources to do this.

[avatar4321]

Education reform?

Cut the Department of education and return the power back to the state governments.

[SpidermanTUba]

Education reform?

Cut the Department of education and return the power back to the state governments.

Why? Because failure is better on a local level?

[avatar4321]

Why? Because failure is better on a local level?

Because the further the power/money is from the people the more likely failure will happen.

[SpidermanTUba]

Because the further the power/money is from the people the more likely failure will happen.

Is that some kind of physical law of nature or did you just make it up out of thin air?

[Nukeman]

I'm not telling you anything. You made a quantitative assertion about how much people on welfare spend on smokes and cigarettes. To do this you need to know the actual quantities involved. So please, tell me, how much do they spend, and back it up with evidence.

I will state it again "IF ANY MONEY IS SPENT ON VICES WHEN ON ASSISTANCE IT IS TOO MUCH" do you understand that???????

I would still like to ask you AGAIN why you feel it is appropriate to DOUBLE DIP by not only getting food stamps but free lunches and breakfast as well. you do know that this is one of the area's that schools spend a lot of their income on don't you, especialy in low income neighborhoods???????????

[SpidermanTUba]

I will state it again "IF ANY MONEY IS SPENT ON VICES WHEN ON ASSISTANCE IT IS TOO MUCH" do you understand that???????

That's not a complete sentence, so, no.

Please, tell me how much welfare recipients spend on beer and cigarettes every year.


I would still like to ask you AGAIN why you feel it is appropriate to DOUBLE DIP by not only getting food stamps but free lunches and breakfast as well. you do know that this is one of the area's that schools spend a lot of their income on don't you, especialy in low income neighborhoods???????????

How the fuck is it "double dipping"? Do the kids sneak out behind the lunchroom after getting their free lunch and pick up a bag lunch from their mom bought with food stamps? That's like saying its "double dipping" to be a resident of public housing on both Sundays and Mondays. Sorry idiot, but the kids aren't eating TWO lunches, so maybe you can explain WTF you're talking about.

[Nukeman]

That's not a complete sentence, so, no.

.


How the fuck is it "double dipping"? Do the kids sneak out behind the lunchroom after getting their free lunch and pick up a bag lunch from their mom bought with food stamps? That's like saying its "double dipping" to be a resident of public housing on both Sundays and Mondays. Sorry idiot, but the kids aren't eating TWO lunches, so maybe you can explain WTF you're talking about.
No dumb fuck the double dipping is from their parents recieving money to FEED the children then requestion and recieving FREE LUNCHES. What the fuck did the OTHER MONEY (food stamps) go for??? You really are stupid aren't you!!!!!!

[Trigg]

It stopped being a part of "parenting" in Louisiana when we decided every child had a right to an education regardless of the ability or willingness of their parents to pay for it. Textbooks as well as school bus transportation are supplied fee free to ALL school students here - public AND private.

Oh please can we talk about how wonderful NO schools are.....please.

They're so good that while I lived there even poorly paid receptionists were scrimping and saving in order to get their kids into private schools so they didn't have to go to the crap public ones.

Their test scores are abysmal and that's after 3 strait years of improvements.

Yep, wonderful system you have down there. :lame2:

[Trigg]

How the fuck is it "double dipping"? Do the kids sneak out behind the lunchroom after getting their free lunch and pick up a bag lunch from their mom bought with food stamps? That's like saying its "double dipping" to be a resident of public housing on both Sundays and Mondays. Sorry idiot, but the kids aren't eating TWO lunches, so maybe you can explain WTF you're talking about.

I'll type r e a l s l o w

He's saying that if a low income family is receiving food stamps from the gov. than WHY are they also getting free lunches at school paid for by the gov. WHY aren't parents required to send a lunch with their child???????

[SpidermanTUba]

No dumb fuck the double dipping is from their parents recieving money to FEED the children then requestion and recieving FREE LUNCHES. What the fuck did the OTHER MONEY (food stamps) go for??? You really are stupid aren't you!!!!!!



They don't get money, they get food stamps. As for what the other food stamps go for, I'm guessing FOOD, and I'm guessing for meals that are not lunch between monday and friday.


Are all lawyers in Kokomo this stupid?


Oh please can we talk about how wonderful NO schools are.....please.

They're so good that while I lived there even poorly paid receptionists were scrimping and saving in order to get their kids into private schools so they didn't have to go to the crap public ones.

Their test scores are abysmal and that's after 3 strait years of improvements.

Yep, wonderful system you have down there. :lame2:


Do you have anything else to add, are is this your quota of hatred for the day?


I'll type r e a l s l o w

He's saying that if a low income family is receiving food stamps from the gov. than WHY are they also getting free lunches at school paid for by the gov. WHY aren't parents required to send a lunch with their child???????

Because school lunches are more economical to produce than bag home lunches. You seriously think a single household has the economies of scale of a school cafeteria? Come on now BASIC ECONOMICS guys - if you've got to pay for a poor kid to eat, wouldn't you prefer to do it in the most economic way possible?

Please, by all means, direct me to the grocery store that will give me a better price per bun on 8 hamburger buns than the school cafeteria will get on 800.

And to think Nuke is an actual lawyer, and doesn't grasp basic economics.

[hortysir]

Because school lunches are more economical to produce than bag home lunches. You seriously think a single household has the economies of scale of a school cafeteria? Come on now BASIC ECONOMICS guys - if you've got to pay for a poor kid to eat, wouldn't you prefer to do it in the most economic way possible?

Please, by all means, direct me to the grocery store that will give me a better price per bun on 8 hamburger buns than the school cafeteria will get on 800.

And to think Nuke is an actual lawyer, and doesn't grasp basic economics.

I suppose they'd rather mom buy Snackables or Lunchables at 3 bucks a pop for tiny portions than cafeteria food that's bought in bulk??!!
:poke:

[Trigg]

Do you have anything else to add, are is this your quota of hatred for the day?

Hatred???? I'm simply commenting on the lovely NO school system. Are you trying to argue that people aren't trying to get their children out of the public schools in that City?




Because school lunches are more economical to produce than bag home lunches. You seriously think a single household has the economies of scale of a school cafeteria? Come on now BASIC ECONOMICS guys - if you've got to pay for a poor kid to eat, wouldn't you prefer to do it in the most economic way possible?

Please, by all means, direct me to the grocery store that will give me a better price per bun on 8 hamburger buns than the school cafeteria will get on 800.

And to think Nuke is an actual lawyer, and doesn't grasp basic economics.

These families are being PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT in order to get their food for FREE from food stamps. I'd call that pretty economical.

Requiring that the parents send FREE food from home instead of getting MORE FREE FOOD from school, just makes sense. It would also enable the schools to spend their money elsewhere.

Nuke is not a lawyer, he works in healthcare.

[SpidermanTUba]

Hatred???? I'm simply commenting on the lovely NO school system. Are you trying to argue that people aren't trying to get their children out of the public schools in that City?
Why would they, if its so lovely, like you say?




These families are being PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT in order to get their food for FREE from food stamps. I'd call that pretty economical.


For THEM - not for the TAXPAYER. JEEZ you are SLOW.




Nuke is not a lawyer, he works in healthcare.
My bad.

[Mr. P]

You may be wondering (or not) "Where did that dang Gabosaurus run off to?" The answer is: I got to speak before a Congressional committee working on Education Reform.

What I was proposing amounted to a massive bailout of the public education system. Public schools are being forced to make drastic cuts. Which is a shame, since education is our country's most valuable resource.
Our government needs to invest heavily in Head Start programs, along with after school programs and alternative education. We need to keep kids in school, have them graduate and make higher education available to everyone.
A kid who drops out of high school is normally lost to society. The more education you have, the better your job possibilities are.

There are many other programs that can be cut instead of education. Primarily defense spending. There are a lot of archaic weaponry still being produced merely because no one wants to close the places where such items are built.
Not to mention the Pentagon, which is horribly bloated and overstaffed. The military hierarchy can be weeded out at a tremendous savings.

But the main emphasis is on education. We need more teachers and educational support, not less. We need better schools and better programs.
Some members of Congress firmly oppose this, of course. Since uneducated citizens usually become Republicans. :p

Sorry Gab, but I am aware of 40 years of poring more $$$ into education yr after year. The result? Lower and lower test scores, poorer and poorer performance by teachers and students.
40 yrs of evidence that money nor the government IS NOT the answer.

[SpidermanTUba]

Sorry Gab, but I am aware of 40 years of poring more $$$ into education yr after year.

Do you expect to pay for it all in one year and be done with it?

[Trigg]

For THEM - not for the TAXPAYER. JEEZ you are SLOW.



.


Exactly, it's not economical for the tax payer to pay TWICE. The family should have to use their FREE money to send lunch with their child. Saves the school money that way doncha know.

Your being deliberately dense so this is my last post on this subject.

[SpidermanTUba]

Exactly, it's not economical for the tax payer to pay TWICE. The family should have to use their FREE money to send lunch with their child. Saves the school money that way doncha know.

Your being deliberately dense so this is my last post on this subject.

How are they paying TWICE when the kid only eats lunch ONCE ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? What happens to the other lunch? Does it just VAPORIZE?

[Nukeman]

[SIZE="7"]How are they paying TWICE when the kid only eats lunch ONCE ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? What happens to the other lunch? Does it just VAPORIZE?
So what did the food stamps go for???????? If not for breakfast, lunch, and dinner plus snacks...

The point your missing on purpose at this juncture is that the recipients of food stamps are receiving enough money to feed the number in their household for Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. so if they recieve funds for this why are they also recieving free lunch at school when the money has ALREADY been provided???

The "lunch" doesn't vaporize but the money being provided to these people does... Where is the food stamp money, what is it being used for if not for food!!!!???????

[SpidermanTUba]

So what did the food stamps go for????????


Gee, I dunno, the other 16 meals in the week plus all 21 in weeks when school is off? You can't be THAT stupid, right?



The point your missing on purpose at this juncture is that the recipients of food stamps are receiving enough money to feed the number in their household for Breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
The average alotment of food stamps per person per month is $101.http://www.fns.usda.gov/SNAP/faqs.htm To buy 90 meals in a month, thats $1.12 per meal. If 20 of those meals are bought by the schools, that increases the amount per meal to $1.44. Wow, what a fucking crime.



The "lunch" doesn't vaporize but the money being provided to these people does... Where is the food stamp money, what is it being used for if not for food!!!!???????

Considering you can only purchase FOOD with FOOD stamps, I'd guess it gets spent on FOOD

[Nukeman]

Gee, I dunno, the other 16 meals in the week plus all 21 in weeks when school is off? You can't be THAT stupid, right?

Link?




Considering you can only purchase FOOD with FOOD stamps, I'd guess it gets spent on FOOD
You really are retarded aren't you. Either that or your just really good at being obtuse...

The money is MONTHLY not yearly so they get NEW food stamps EVERY month and it is enough to feed the persons in the household for a MONTH. that means ALL meals...

I fully understand that food stamps are to be spent on food but a number of them are sold at below face value for CASH to buy.... ohh.... stuff like booze and drugs... But hey you keep living in your shit colored world and think that everyone who is on govt assistance is doing ONLY what they are supposed to do... Fucking Idiot!!!!!!!!

[Mr. P]

Do you expect to pay for it all in one year and be done with it?

LOL..I expect positive results NOT a continuous 40 yr decline.

[SpidermanTUba]

The money is MONTHLY not yearly so they get NEW food stamps EVERY month and it is enough to feed the persons in the household for a MONTH. that means ALL meals...

At $1.12 per meal.

Do you know why the federal school lunch program was instituted in the first place? Its because the Army was finding large numbers of draftees during WW II unfit for service due to malnutrition. You do want to have as large a pool of healthy able bodied draftees as possible should, God forbid, our nations defense ever depend on it, right?


I fully understand that food stamps are to be spent on food but a number of them are sold at below face value for CASH to buy

What number of them? Is this one of those numbers you've just imagined in your head to be just the way you want it - or do you actually have it.

[SpidermanTUba]

LOL..I expect positive results NOT a continuous 40 yr decline.

We're all open to new ideas. The charter school system is taking off where I live. I was skeptical at first but the results speak for themselves.

[Mr. P]

Gee, I dunno, the other 16 meals in the week plus all 21 in weeks when school is off? You can't be THAT stupid, right?


The average alotment of food stamps per person per month is $101.http://www.fns.usda.gov/SNAP/faqs.htm To buy 90 meals in a month, thats $1.12 per meal. If 20 of those meals are bought by the schools, that increases the amount per meal to $1.44. Wow, what a fucking crime.




Considering you can only purchase FOOD with FOOD stamps, I'd guess it gets spent on FOOD

Wrong! Those who know how to work the system make a small "food" purchase with stamps, receive change back and then spend the rest on whatever they want. Then they still get the free lunch to boot. See how that double dip works yet?

[Mr. P]

We're all open to new ideas. The charter school system is taking off where I live. I was skeptical at first but the results speak for themselves.

They do well here also. Vouchers would be a plus also.

[hortysir]

Wrong! Those who know how to work the system make a small "food" purchase with stamps, receive change back and then spend the rest on whatever they want. Then they still get the free lunch to boot. See how that double dip works yet?
Wrong, again.
These days food "stamps" are on a credit card.

[Mr. P]

Wrong, again.
These days food "stamps" are on a credit card.

I know they have cards..do you think every state does?

Do you think you can sell a $100 card for $75? Sure ya can.

[Abbey Marie]

It stopped being a part of "parenting" in Louisiana when we decided every child had a right to an education regardless of the ability or willingness of their parents to pay for it. Textbooks as well as school bus transportation are supplied fee free to ALL school students here - public AND private.

One problem most people don't realize, is that you usually fail to respect or appreciate what you don't earn/pay for. If you doubt it, check out some Section 8 housing.

I also maintain that used books are fine in all subjects, and wouldn't cost parents a dime. We seem to have this idea that we need brand new books regularly. Anything that changes in the subject can be supplemented with a few handouts. For that matter, in many classes our top 5% graduating daughter did not use the text books. Teachers often used handouts and required a lot note-taking in class.

[Abbey Marie]

Because school lunches are more economical to produce than bag home lunches. You seriously think a single household has the economies of scale of a school cafeteria? Come on now BASIC ECONOMICS guys - if you've got to pay for a poor kid to eat, wouldn't you prefer to do it in the most economic way possible?

Please, by all means, direct me to the grocery store that will give me a better price per bun on 8 hamburger buns than the school cafeteria will get on 800.

And to think Nuke is an actual lawyer, and doesn't grasp basic economics.

So you are trying to argue that the family's food stamp allocation is reduced by the number of free lunches (and breakfasts in our district) the kids are getting at school? Betcha that's not true. I am willing to bet that the number of people in the family is used to allocate the amount of food stamps. Period. If I am right, then there is in fact a pretty huge over-allocation of free food per family. Anyone know the facts on this?

[hortysir]

So you are trying to argue that the family's food stamp allocation is reduced by the number of free lunches (and breakfasts in our district) the kids are getting at school? Betcha that's not true. I am willing to bet that the number of people in the family is used to allocate the amount of food stamps. Period. If I am right, then there is in fact a pretty huge over-allocation of free food per family. Anyone know the facts on this?

I know, in Florida at least, it's part of the food stamp questionnaire if your children receive free lunch or not.
Which I don't understand the "double-dipping" reference, anyway.
Aren't the 2 separate funds?
If you receive food stamps, should that disqualify you for medicaid? Or vice-versa? Or unemployment? etc.....

[Abbey Marie]

I know, in Florida at least, it's part of the food stamp questionnaire if your children receive free lunch or not.
Which I don't understand the "double-dipping" reference, anyway.
Aren't the 2 separate funds?
If you receive food stamps, should that disqualify you for medicaid? Or vice-versa? Or unemployment? etc.....

The free lunch question is a usually used as a qualifier. It lets the questioner know that your family is below a certain income level, and therefore eligible for their program.

Food and medical care are two different things. Food (stamps)and food (free lunches) are not.

[SpidermanTUba]

They do well here also. Vouchers would be a plus also.

All vouchers do is drive private school tuition up. A $3000 voucher doesn't do a poor family much good if tuition is $5000 a year.

[SpidermanTUba]

Wrong! Those who know how to work the system make a small "food" purchase with stamps, receive change back and then spend the rest on whatever they want. Then they still get the free lunch to boot. See how that double dip works yet?

They don't give you change. Not where I live. Its on a card.

[SpidermanTUba]

I know they have cards..do you think every state does?

Do you think you can sell a $100 card for $75? Sure ya can.


Wow, you seem so sure about this, the exact price even. How would you know?

[Mr. P]

I know, in Florida at least, it's part of the food stamp questionnaire if your children receive free lunch or not.
Which I don't understand the "double-dipping" reference, anyway.
Aren't the 2 separate funds?
If you receive food stamps, should that disqualify you for medicaid? Or vice-versa? Or unemployment? etc.....

Probably. But they're BOTH for food right? Thus the double dip.

[SpidermanTUba]

One problem most people don't realize, is that you usually fail to respect or appreciate what you don't earn/pay for. If you doubt it, check out some Section 8 housing.

Section 8 housing is shitty primarily due to neglectful landlords looking to rake in the public dollar with as little cost as possible. And most of the tenants not on disability or retirement DO pay part of the rent (often the larger share), 30% of their income generally. The idea is subsidized housing - not free housing.


I also maintain that used books are fine in all subjects, and wouldn't cost parents a dime. We seem to have this idea that we need brand new books regularly. Anything that changes in the subject can be supplemented with a few handouts. For that matter, in many classes our top 5% graduating daughter did not use the text books. Teachers often used handouts and required a lot note-taking in class.

New books are overrated yes, I agree, but I'm sure the book companies would not. Considering in most of my history classes in school, for instance, we didn't get past the 1960's - what good would it do us to have a book that was current through 1990?

[Abbey Marie]

Probably. But they're BOTH for food right? Thus the double dip.

I'm picturing someone dipping their tortilla in two different salsas. Kinda greedy and unnecessary, and leaves less for the next guy :D

[Mr. P]

All vouchers do is drive private school tuition up. A $3000 voucher doesn't do a poor family much good if tuition is $5000 a year.

Ideally vouchers will be used in public schools for those who choose to stay in the public school of their choice NOT a mandated school. Thus creating competition among schools to be the BEST and not just exist.

[SpidermanTUba]

So you are trying to argue that the family's food stamp allocation is reduced by the number of free lunches (and breakfasts in our district) the kids are getting at school? Betcha that's not true. I am willing to bet that the number of people in the family is used to allocate the amount of food stamps. Period. If I am right, then there is in fact a pretty huge over-allocation of free food per family. Anyone know the facts on this?

over allocation? The average person gets $101 a month. $1.12 per meal. If you consider a family of 4 with 2 kids in school, they'll get 180 free meals at school - that brings the average to $1.21 per meal per person. I don't really see that as overallocation, excepting breakfast I'm quite sure most of the meals I eat cost over $1.21, and we aint rich and don't live high.

[SpidermanTUba]

probably. But they're both for food right? Thus the double dip.

its more economical to feed kids at school than to give their parents money to feed them at home why don't you want to save the taxpayers money?

[Mr. P]

Wow, you seem so sure about this, the exact price even. How would you know?

Hypothetical numbers.

[hortysir]

Probably. But they're BOTH for food right? Thus the double dip.

So they should steer clear of food banks and soup kitchens too, I imagine

[SpidermanTUba]

hypothetical numbers.

lol!

[Mr. P]

its more economical to feed kids at school than to give their parents money to feed them at home why don't you want to save the taxpayers money?

What does a school lunch cost in NO? I can beat it. Sure they may not have ice cream a hamburger or coke, but they'll eat cheaper.

[SpidermanTUba]

What does a school lunch cost in NO? I can beat it. Sure they may not have ice cream a hamburger or coke, but they'll eat cheaper.

Bullshit. Do you understand anything about economies of scale? A single home cannot get 1 pound of beef for as little per pound as a school cafeteria buying 200 lbs can.

[Mr. P]

Bullshit. Do you understand anything about economies of scale? A single home cannot get 1 pound of beef for as little per pound as a school cafeteria buying 200 lbs can.

Again, what's the cost to the kid for lunch in NO..I can beat it..

[Mr. P]

So they should steer clear of food banks and soup kitchens too, I imagine

Charity is a different animal, NO?

[Abbey Marie]

over allocation? The average person gets $101 a month. $1.12 per meal. If you consider a family of 4 with 2 kids in school, they'll get 180 free meals at school - that brings the average to $1.21 per meal per person. I don't really see that as overallocation, excepting breakfast I'm quite sure most of the meals I eat cost over $1.21, and we aint rich and don't live high.

If you feel that the food stamp program does not give families enough to eat, that is a separate issue that I expect people would raise with the gov't. I haven't heard that raised. It does not change the fact, as many of us have been trying to explain to you, that food stamps are calculated to cover all meals, making free school lunches an over-allocation of food to those families.

You have not explained why the parent receiving food stamps cannot take that some of that free food, and send it to school as lunch.

[Monkeybone]

over allocation? The average person gets $101 a month. $1.12 per meal. If you consider a family of 4 with 2 kids in school, they'll get 180 free meals at school - that brings the average to $1.21 per meal per person. I don't really see that as overallocation, excepting breakfast I'm quite sure most of the meals I eat cost over $1.21, and we aint rich and don't live high.
they only get $101 dollars a month in food stamps? where did you get this?

[SpidermanTUba]

It does not change the fact, as many of us have been trying to explain to you, that food stamps are calculated to cover all meals, making free school lunches an over-allocation of food to those families.

You say that's a fact yet I doubt you can show it to be one.

[SpidermanTUba]

they only get $101 dollars a month in food stamps? where did you get this?

I posted a link earlier in the thread. That is the average allotment per person nationwide. Its not much. But bear in mind that not all people are subsidized to the extent they should be paying for all their food with stamps, its a sliding scale in most places, depending on your income. Some folks get as little as $25 a month.

[avatar4321]

Is that some kind of physical law of nature or did you just make it up out of thin air?

It's common sense. Who is going to be able to fix the problems in a school district better. The school district or the President in Washington?

It makes absolutely no sense to send all the money to Washington just to have it sent back to the states with conditions on it. Let every problem that can be solved at the State and local levels be dealt with on the State and local levels.

BTW that would be every education issue.

[avatar4321]

Do you expect to pay for it all in one year and be done with it?

No. What was saying is that pouring money into a failing system doesn't fix the system, it just wastes the money.

Our educational system is broken and we need to fix the system and not just keep tossing more and more money at it.

[avatar4321]

All vouchers do is drive private school tuition up. A $3000 voucher doesn't do a poor family much good if tuition is $5000 a year.

That's what free student loans do too...

[SpidermanTUba]

It's common sense.
Can you justify it or are you merely asserting its truth without justification?


Who is going to be able to fix the problems in a school district better. The school district or the President in Washington?


Are you seriously this ignorant of history? Or do you just support segregated schools?

[SpidermanTUba]

That's what free student loans do too...

So now you want the poor to have to take out loans to send their children to school? That's fucking brilliant. Who the fuck is going to give them the loan?

[Nukeman]

Can you justify it or are you merely asserting its truth without justification?




Are you seriously this ignorant of history? Or do you just support segregated schools?

Actually some segregation is GOOD for the students. Take the all girl/boy schools they tend to have fewer distractions and have a higher test average.

I would also point out that someschools in Chicago have voluntarily segregated to all black and that has made a better educational experience for them. I am not saying for all but some seem to benefit from "segregation" Its not all bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SpidermanTUba]

I would also point out that someschools in Chicago have voluntarily segregated to all black and that has made a better educational experience for them. I am not saying for all but some seem to benefit from "segregation" Its not all bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No they haven't. You can't "voluntarily" make your school segregated.

[Nukeman]

No they haven't. You can't "voluntarily" make your school segregated.

Yes and no. When they are listed as "all black" than I think that means whites should stay away and since no whites have pushed the issue legally than I would think that constitutes a "voluntary" segregation...

Here is one for you numb nuts it took all of 2 sec. to find on google!

http://www.examiner.com/x-20816-Charlotte-Christian-Spirituality-Examiner~y2010m3d16-Urban-Prep-an-all-black-charter-school-in-Chicago-graduates-100-of-its-class


According to the Chicago Tribune

Happy News
Charter school in tough neighborhood gets all its seniors into college!
Jubilation! Urban Prep Academy senior Keith Greer, along with his classmates, celebrates the news they will receive a free prom in Chicago because 100 percent of the graduating class was accepted into 4-year colleges or universities. (Tribune photo by Heather Charles / March 5, 2010)

The entire senior class at Chicago's only public all-male, all-African-American high school has been accepted to four-year colleges. At last count, the 107 seniors had earned spots at 72 schools across the nation.

[SpidermanTUba]

Yes and no. When they are listed as "all black" than I think that means whites should stay away and since no whites have pushed the issue legally than I would think that constitutes a "voluntary" segregation...

Here is one for you numb nuts it took all of 2 sec. to find on google!

http://www.examiner.com/x-20816-Charlotte-Christian-Spirituality-Examiner~y2010m3d16-Urban-Prep-an-all-black-charter-school-in-Chicago-graduates-100-of-its-class



"listed" as all-black? You assume that just because there happens to be no white students that white students are not allowed to attend? You for real? Or are you saying that white kids should not enroll in schools that happen to be all black, because you a total bigot?

[avatar4321]

So now you want the poor to have to take out loans to send their children to school? That's fucking brilliant. Who the fuck is going to give them the loan?

Actually, I said nothing of the sort. I said that Free Student loans also drive up tuition costs.

[gabosaurus]

Another good thread derailed by silly DPers.

[Nukeman]

Another good thread derailed by silly DPers.

Actually gabs ONE person pulled this thread into another direction than it was intended. That would be our resident moron spidermantuba.......

[gabosaurus]

So how about derailing it back in the direction in which it was intended.

[cat slave]

It stopped being a part of "parenting" in Louisiana when we decided every child had a right to an education regardless of the ability or willingness of their parents to pay for it. Textbooks as well as school bus transportation are supplied fee free to ALL school students here - public AND private.

Oh puhleeze! When I was a kid it was required that everyone go to school.
If you lived further than a mile and a half from school, you got to ride the
school bus...free! The education from the teacher was free! But parents
had to provide supplies. Period!

[cat slave]

So your plan is to have every family go back to a single earner model with one parent at home during the day to look after the kids? Yeah that won't cost the economy a dime. Seriously why not just do home schooling? Or is it your plan to have 6 year olds sit at home unsupervised all day long with a lap top?



If the system were being run like it was in the 1800's kids would actually be learning.

Dont know what I hit but here goes again.

Having a parent in the household to supervise the offspring would be much
cheaper than doling out all the $$ for day care and after school programs
that are nothing but baby sitters.

If the one earner in the family could show that there is a true hardship
then there could be assistance. Anything is cheaper than all the junk
going down now.

School systems have more and more money, assistants and planning
periods and the kids are learning less and less and dropping out.

I also drove a school bus for 3 years while I got my pet sitting business
going. I saw a world I had no idea existed. Lazy, drugged women put
their kids on the free bus, sick or not, mostly sick, and they went back
to bed. It was hell to wait to see the kid got back into the house in the
evening with the same drugged, lazy twit smoking and drinking.

We had some kids from a "home" and their education consisted of how many
turds got into the toilet today!!!! Some education. If they cant learn any
more than that they dont belong in a school.

I stand by my idea of laptops with software and dump this monstrous
all consuming system we have now. That is where it will go you know.
This is the 21st century.

[Mr. P]

Lets drop the "free" stuff folks. Schools are funded with state and local taxes. Primarily property taxes.

[cat slave]

No they haven't. You can't "voluntarily" make your school segregated.


Guess some have shot themselves in the foot wanting forced busing.
Neighborhoods became any color and then the whiners didnt like it because
their kids were on a bus 45+ minutes 2x a day!!!!

Groups segregate themselves and they should be able to do that with no
condemnation.

Hey, traditional black schools are able to stay that with with even more
funding so its past time to junk the whole thing and start from scratch
with technology and efficiency.

[avatar4321]

Another good thread derailed by silly DPers.

I've been talking about education reform. I assumed that was the topic.

[SassyLady]

So how about derailing it back in the direction in which it was intended.

Hey gabby - why don't you stick around when you start a thread so you can keep it on track? Just asking .... :beer:

[gabosaurus]

Hey gabby - why don't you stick around when you start a thread so you can keep it on track?

Because I have a job that takes me away from my computer a lot. I don't sit at home all day.