what will it take...

[PostmodernProphet]

If the United States is going to get through the next twenty years, what's it going to take......we have more debt than we can pay.....when individuals face that problem they have to make changes in their lives......steak gets replaced with hamburger.....going to the movies gets replaced by staying home and watching tv.......

It's already been mentioned that NASA will lose funding.

I think that we should lose everything that involves the federal government taking tax money then redistributing it to state and local government. That includes roads, schools, everything......let state and local government collect their own taxes and pay their own bills......putting the federal government in the middle just means some gets skimmed off and stays in Washington.....

I think we need a leaner, more efficient military....I think we could cut a third off defense without jeopardizing national security......why is it we have a standing army in Europe and Korea yet had to fight the war in Iraq with reserves?.....what were the people in Europe so busy doing that they couldn't fight?.....

what else should we chop?......

[Mr. P]

Leave the Military alone.

Eliminate The U.S. Department of Education.. With a Fiscal Year 2010 Budget of $46.7 billion

Eliminate ALL non-essential departments in The Department of Energy. 2010 budget $65 billion (26.3 billion plus 38.7 billion in recovery act funds).

Bring everyone home from Iraq and Afghanistan. We''ll save BILLIONS on an un-winnable ground war. Not to mention lives of our service men and women.

Just a few.

[Mr. P]

Another biggy..STOP ALL UNNECESSARY Foreign aid.

[Abbey Marie]

All but eliminate the bloated IRS with a flat tax, anyone?

[Mr. P]

All but eliminate the bloated IRS with a flat tax, anyone?

Flat tax won't do that..The fair tax would all but eliminate them though.

[Abbey Marie]

Flat tax won't do that..The fair tax would all but eliminate them though.

I'm not up on tax stuff that well, but I do know that if we eliminate deductions, and credits, most of the tax code goes away.

[Mr. P]

I'm not up on tax stuff that well, but I do know that if we eliminate deductions, and credits, most of the tax code goes away.

The fair tax does all that. The flat tax doesn't.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main

[82Marine89]

I think we need a leaner, more efficient military....I think we could cut a third off defense without jeopardizing national security......why is it we have a standing army in Europe and Korea yet had to fight the war in Iraq with reserves?.....what were the people in Europe so busy doing that they couldn't fight?.....



I want to see your reasoning on reducing the military and how you would go about doing it.

BTW, we have Divisions in Asia and Europe, not standing armies.

[PostmodernProphet]

Another biggy..STOP ALL UNNECESSARY Foreign aid.

all foreign aid is unsupportable....just like the family who's going broke, you don't buy your neighbors Christmas presents when you can't pay your mortgage payments.....

[PostmodernProphet]

BTW, we have Divisions in Asia and Europe, not standing armies.

and what are the divisions in Asia and Europe there to do.....I would hope they are there to fight if they are needed, otherwise what purpose would they serve?.....and since they weren't needed to fight anyone in Europe, why didn't we send them to Iraq instead of calling up the reserves?.....

if they are serving no purpose where they are, remove them from where they are.....

as for other ways to save money I expect from your time in the service you are more aware than I of ways that the same thing can be done on far less money with no risk of danger to any soldier.....

[82Marine89]

and what are the divisions in Asia and Europe there to do.....I would hope they are there to fight if they are needed, otherwise what purpose would they serve?.....and since they weren't needed to fight anyone in Europe, why didn't we send them to Iraq instead of calling up the reserves?.....

if they are serving no purpose where they are, remove them from where they are.....

as for other ways to save money I expect from your time in the service you are more aware than I of ways that the same thing can be done on far less money with no risk of danger to any soldier.....

...and you did not answer my question...

[Mr. P]

all foreign aid is unsupportable....just like the family who's going broke, you don't buy your neighbors Christmas presents when you can't pay your mortgage payments.....

I don't buy my neighbors Christmas presents. But if my neighbor has a very aggressive neighbor and wants to build a fence for protection I'll help him. Cuz if that aggressive neighbor wins he's one house closer to me.

Think missile defense. That's supportable aid.

[PostmodernProphet]

...and you did not answer my question...

???....I was trying to, what part didn't you understand....

[PostmodernProphet]

I don't buy my neighbors Christmas presents. But if my neighbor has a very aggressive neighbor and wants to build a fence for protection I'll help him. Cuz if that aggressive neighbor wins he's one house closer to me.

Think missile defense. That's supportable aid.

you got the money for it?

[CSM]

and what are the divisions in Asia and Europe there to do.....I would hope they are there to fight if they are needed, otherwise what purpose would they serve?.....and since they weren't needed to fight anyone in Europe, why didn't we send them to Iraq instead of calling up the reserves?.....

if they are serving no purpose where they are, remove them from where they are.....

as for other ways to save money I expect from your time in the service you are more aware than I of ways that the same thing can be done on far less money with no risk of danger to any soldier.....

Europe has been pretty much stripped of US combat forces. If you have been paying attention you would know that the DoD has slowly been stripping forces from Europe and sending them to SW Asia. There is some presence still there because of international agreements with Germany and some of the former Soviet satellite states as well as NATO agreements. We still have forces in Kore for the same reason.

While there are US military personnel stationed around the globe, they are generally NOT combat maneuver forces.

[82Marine89]

???....I was trying to, what part didn't you understand....

Tell me how you would reduce the military. Once I hear your plans I will tell you why I feel we need to leave the military alone.

[HogTrash]

Tell me how you would reduce the military. Once I hear your plans I will tell you why I feel we need to leave the military alone."Leave the military alone", except of course for allowing those funny boys to run around the barracks in their Villiage People costumes, playing slap and tickle with one another. :gay:

[PostmodernProphet]

Tell me how you would reduce the military. Once I hear your plans I will tell you why I feel we need to leave the military alone.

as mentioned above, eliminate standing forces that serve no purpose.....eliminate waste at all levels......mulitpurpose systems so we don't have different types of helicopter for different branches of service....take the politics regarding bases and manufacturing of military equipment out of the picture.....

[CSM]

as mentioned above, eliminate standing forces that serve no purpose.....eliminate waste at all levels......mulitpurpose systems so we don't have different types of helicopter for different branches of service....take the politics regarding bases and manufacturing of military equipment out of the picture.....

So, you think that an attack helicopter designed and built for the Army should suffice as a medivac helicopter for the other services or vice versa. Your knowledge of requirements for material for the different services matches your technical engineering skills.

Many folks who do not understand the different missions for each service cannot understand why they need different equipment and systems. Until they do, arguments like the one you present here are not only naive, they can be dangerous to military personnel.

Also, what "purpose" should any standing force have that would preclude elimination? Do propose we only raise, equip and train forces after military conflict occurs? Unless a unit is engaged in actual combat are they eligible for elimination?

[HogTrash]

Would kill and mame be considered a "mulitpurpose system"? :tank:

[SassyLady]

as mentioned above, eliminate standing forces that serve no purpose.....eliminate waste at all levels......mulitpurpose systems so we don't have different types of helicopter for different branches of service....take the politics regarding bases and manufacturing of military equipment out of the picture.....

It's obvious that some people have no idea what it takes to mobilize an army.

[Mr. P]

you got the money for it?

We do..defense is Constitutionally mandated, it's the other BS that's NOT Constitutional that needs to go. So yeah, in the end I have the money and it's the best spent today. Without defense all else is moot.

[PostmodernProphet]

We do..defense is Constitutionally mandated, it's the other BS that's NOT Constitutional that needs to go. So yeah, in the end I have the money and it's the best spent today. Without defense all else is moot.

if we don't start living within our means, it's going to be moot anyway....if we don't have enough money to have ten soldiers with big guns we may have to survive with six soldiers with small guns and a guy with a sword......

[SassyLady]

if we don't start living within our means, it's going to be moot anyway....if we don't have enough money to have ten soldiers with big guns we may have to survive with six soldiers with small guns and a guy with a sword......

Let's get to that point before we decide to gut the military. Cut off all foreign aid first. Cut back on funding stupid studies (i.e., $1million to study the breeding preferences of woodchucks). Don't send our military to natural disasters - like Haiti. There are plenty of ways to cut back before we reduce from 10 soldiers to 6.

[PostmodernProphet]

Let's get to that point before we decide to gut the military. Cut off all foreign aid first. Cut back on funding stupid studies (i.e., $1million to study the breeding preferences of woodchucks). Don't send our military to natural disasters - like Haiti. There are plenty of ways to cut back before we reduce from 10 soldiers to 6.

good lord, I never said anything about "gutting" anything.....I agree with cutting foreign aid, I agree with cutting studies, but that isn't going to be enough.....the purpose of this thread was to discuss those "plenty of ways to cut back", not to examine my feelings about the military.....

[SassyLady]

good lord, I never said anything about "gutting" anything.....I agree with cutting foreign aid, I agree with cutting studies, but that isn't going to be enough.....the purpose of this thread was to discuss those "plenty of ways to cut back", not to examine my feelings about the military.....


as mentioned above, eliminate standing forces that serve no purpose

Perhaps I misunderstood this statement....you didn't say reassign, you said eliminate.

[PostmodernProphet]

Perhaps I misunderstood this statement....you didn't say reassign, you said eliminate.

reassign them to do what?.....they are doing nothing in Europe, they weren't available to fight where we actually needed people to fight.....do we "reassign" them to do nothing somewhere else?......if we need them reassign them, but unless we can come up with a valid purpose for them it's a waste of money.....

"gutting" would mean reducing effectiveness.....getting rid of people who do nothing is not a reduction of effectiveness.....

[revelarts]

...
Eliminate The U.S. Department of Education.. With a Fiscal Year 2010 Budget of $46.7 billion

Eliminate ALL non-essential departments in The Department of Energy. 2010 budget $65 billion (26.3 billion plus 38.7 billion in recovery act funds).

Bring everyone home from Iraq and Afghanistan. We''ll save BILLIONS on an un-winnable ground war. Not to mention lives of our service men and women.

Just a few.

yes to all of that.

I would like to see other changes to the military though, starting with veteran benefits, Medical and spousal support needs to be changed for the better. After that I like to see GAO and 3rd party PUBLIC audits of the DOD starting with the veterans administration.

Both my grandfathers worked in shipyards during WWII and helped build aircraft carriers. I'm not a military tactician but I wonder if we really need to crank out any more of those considering the current "threats". I know they are great JOBS for several areas of the country but are Carriers needed? My guess would be no.

[Mr. P]

reassign them to do what?.....they are doing nothing in Europe, they weren't available to fight where we actually needed people to fight.....do we "reassign" them to do nothing somewhere else?......if we need them reassign them, but unless we can come up with a valid purpose for them it's a waste of money.....

"gutting" would mean reducing effectiveness.....getting rid of people who do nothing is not a reduction of effectiveness.....

You sound like a Monday morning quarterback. They don't know what they're talking about either.

[SassyLady]

reassign them to do what?.....they are doing nothing in Europe, they weren't available to fight where we actually needed people to fight.....do we "reassign" them to do nothing somewhere else?......if we need them reassign them, but unless we can come up with a valid purpose for them it's a waste of money.....

"gutting" would mean reducing effectiveness.....getting rid of people who do nothing is not a reduction of effectiveness.....

Do you know anything about maintaining military strength? Maintaining military presence? We don't just recruit and train soldiers to fight wars....another purpose is to keep the peace.....and it seems they are pretty "effective" at doing that so far in Europe.

Here's a quick assessment of why we are needed in Europe.


The answer remains what it has been throughout that period: because it is in our best interest to keep them there. A free and independent Western Europe, aligned with the United States, is vital for our national security and well-being. The U.S.S.R. and its Warsaw Pact allies have large and effective land and air forces in Eastern Europe. If our allies are to be able to preserve their independence, NATO must have in-place forces of equal size and effectiveness, and be able to match the Pact in a mobilization. If the NATO alliance does not provide such forces, a major imbalance in military power will be an intimidating factor that cannot help but influence our allies' freedom and political alignment over the years.

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/24563/alain-c-enthoven/us-forces-in-europe-how-many-doing-what



So, to say they are doing nothing is absurd.

[PostmodernProphet]

Do you know anything about maintaining military strength?

look, do you remember anything about what this thread is about......here's the underlying question.....do we have the money to maintain military strength.....remember what happened to the Soviet Union?.....it tried to maintain military strength.......

I am of the belief that we are now to the point where getting rid of everything in the federal budget except the absolute essentials may not be enough for this country to survive......we may have to start trimming back on the essentials.....so instead of going on and on about what I don't know about the military, how about contributing to the thread by suggesting what needs to go BEFORE we have to cut into maintaining our military strength....

[SassyLady]

look, do you remember anything about what this thread is about......here's the underlying question.....do we have the money to maintain military strength.....remember what happened to the Soviet Union?.....it tried to maintain military strength.......

I am of the belief that we are now to the point where getting rid of everything in the federal budget except the absolute essentials may not be enough for this country to survive......we may have to start trimming back on the essentials.....so instead of going on and on about what I don't know about the military, how about contributing to the thread by suggesting what needs to go BEFORE we have to cut into maintaining our military strength....

Here's what I said earlier:


Let's get to that point before we decide to gut the military. Cut off all foreign aid first. Cut back on funding stupid studies (i.e., $1million to study the breeding preferences of woodchucks). Don't send our military to natural disasters - like Haiti.There are plenty of ways to cut back before we reduce from 10 soldiers to 6.

I did contribute ... and then you took issue with what I said about the military.

But here's another one - get rid of Teacher's Union; and cut Congress' operating budget by 50% (they might save a couple million by just cutting out the booze).

Parent should be home schooling their children way before we start cutting the military.

[PostmodernProphet]

I guess we need to know where everyone's sacred cow stands.....apparently for you, no matter if the funding is wasteful or not we must not cut military spending.....does that sum it up?......

[KarlMarx]

What's it going to take?

1. Reform Social Security
2. Reform Medicare
3. Reform Medicaid
4. Balanced Budgets

The defense budget is under quite a bit of scrutiny now...

The Obama Administration is making these highly publicized cuts in NASA and defense for two reasons...

1. To convince us that he's actually doing something about government spending ... without actually doing anything about government spending

2. To divert funding to his stimulus programs, his health care fiasco

[SassyLady]

I guess we need to know where everyone's sacred cow stands.....apparently for you, no matter if the funding is wasteful or not we must not cut military spending.....does that sum it up?......

Wasteful spending should always be examined. And yes, the military is pretty sacred to me.

[darin]

MKP - very nicely done.

[SassyLady]

MKP - very nicely done.

thank you

[Binky]

if we don't start living within our means, it's going to be moot anyway....if we don't have enough money to have ten soldiers with big guns we may have to survive with six soldiers with small guns and a guy with a sword......



And with our gov't as a prime example of not living within its means, it's no wonder that home foreclosures have swept across this country. People not living within their means, following in the footsteps of their gov't.....

Damn..........go figure....Monkey see, monkey do.......

[Mr. P]

And with our gov't as a prime example of not living within its means, it's no wonder that home foreclosures have swept across this country. People not living within their means, following in the footsteps of their gov't.....

Damn..........go figure....Monkey see, monkey do.......

Now THAT'S a racist comment! :poke: :laugh2:

[82Marine89]

"Leave the military alone", except of course for allowing those funny boys to run around the barracks in their Villiage People costumes, playing slap and tickle with one another. :gay:

So says the cocksucker.

[82Marine89]

as mentioned above, eliminate standing forces that serve no purpose.....eliminate waste at all levels......mulitpurpose systems so we don't have different types of helicopter for different branches of service....take the politics regarding bases and manufacturing of military equipment out of the picture.....

Eliminating waste is going to be hard at any level of government. If they don't spend it, they don't get it again next year.... All parts of the military serve a purpose whether it be combat arms or support. There is no duplicity there....different weapon systems serve the mission of that branch. Air force has aircraft the Army and Marines don't need and vice versa....taking the politics out of government operations? seriously?

[avatar4321]

Massive across the board cuts in every department. Eliminating the departments without Constitutional authorization. Fire everyone watching pornography on their work computer and taking him $100,000 a year.