Indiana Amish Exempt From New Health Care Rules

[LiberalNation]

http://www.wlky.com/news/23117925/detail.html

GOSHEN, Ind. -- Indiana's large Amish population will be exempt from new federal rules requiring most Americans to buy health insurance or pay a penalty.

The federal health-care overhaul legislation includes a carve-out for religious groups who have a conscientious objection to private or public insurance.

That includes the nation's 239,000 Amish, 40,000 of whom live in Indiana.

The Amish traditionally don't vote and have a long-established practice of avoiding government-run programs such as Social Security and Medicare.

They believe the church is responsible for caring for its members.

[pete311]

Muslims also seems to reject health insurance but they are forced to buy it
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=137221

[LiberalNation]

they don't reject modern medicine is prolly the reason or just bull anti muslim crap.

[jimnyc]

Muslims also seems to reject health insurance but they are forced to buy it
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=137221

I agree, that's wrong. They should probably shoot the majority of them and save the money.

[LiberalNation]

racist fucktard at it again. Only nazis propose genocide of those of a different faith.

[pete311]

I agree, that's wrong. They should probably shoot the majority of them and save the money.

your bipolar phobia medicines are going to cost me $$$, maybe they shoot you too.

[jimnyc]

racist fucktard at it again. Only nazis propose genocide of those of a different faith.

Which is it, am I a racist or against another faith?


your bipolar phobia medicines are going to cost me $$$, maybe they shoot you too.

I pay $125 cash every month for my Dr. visit, and $145 monthly for my medications. CASH. Unlike the filthy liberals, I have no issue paying my fair share.

[pete311]

I pay $125 cash every month for my Dr. visit, and $145 monthly for my medications. CASH. Unlike the filthy liberals, I have no issue paying my fair share.

I am self employed and my health insurance sucks so I pay basically pay out of pocket too. Will you be able to pay in cash with this new system?

[chloe]

Religion shpould be exempt, I never saw a doctor or had any shots growing up. Government should not be in the medicine business.

[jimnyc]

I am self employed and my health insurance sucks so I pay basically pay out of pocket too. Will you be able to pay in cash with this new system?

Yep, I have full coverage health insurance already under my wife's policy, but my doctor doesn't accept any insurance at all. I can still submit the receipts for reimbursement from the insurance company, for the meds as well, but we choose not to. We use the health insurance mainly for our son, and I do the best I can to handle my own medical issues.

[chloe]

your bipolar phobia medicines are going to cost me $$$, maybe they shoot you too.


That is just rude.

[jimnyc]

That is just rude.

Tis ok, libs want me dead for my opinions about queers and muslims. Being that libs don't have backbones, I never take them seriously anyway!

[chloe]

Tis ok, libs want me dead for my opinions about queers and muslims. Being that libs don't have backbones, I never take them seriously anyway!


Well you pay for this board and he should at least give some respect, there is freedom of speech and then there is just plain being rude. Alot of people feel upset with muslims for 911, and as far as the gay thing goes you have the right not to agree with it.

[MtnBiker]

GOSHEN, Ind. -- Indiana's large Amish population will be exempt from new federal rules requiring most Americans to buy health insurance or pay a penalty.


Gee, I thought Obama was against special interest groups.

[LiberalNation]

yeah, calling for mass murder is beyond rude, jim done got plenty of donations.

[LiberalNation]

Gee, I thought Obama was against special interest groups.

he didn't write the bill, there were many compromises including on abortion.

[chloe]

yeah, calling for mass murder is beyond rude, jim done got plenty of donations.


It is rude and that is what the taliban calls for all the time against american people.

[pete311]

It is rude and that is what the taliban calls for all the time against american people.

so you are equating the taliban with jim? btw, jim dishes it just as hard at me and others, how do you not know that

[chloe]

so you are equating the taliban with jim? btw, jim dishes it just as hard at me and others, how do you not know that


I didn't see him say you should die.

[pete311]

I didn't see him say you should die.

I am muslim. he said we should kill all muslims

[chloe]

I am muslim. he said we should kill all muslims


Sorry, I didn't know you were muslim.

[Noir]

Sorry, I didn't know you were muslim.

If he were not a Muslim would that make jims comments about killing most Muslims any less wrong?

As for the OP it not surprising that religion has come into the healthcare mush. Gawd knows what sort of litigation this will cause as religious groups try and avoid the taxes.

[Gaffer]

I am muslim. he said we should kill all muslims

Muslims are called on to kill all infidels. Do you follow the law of your religion?

[chloe]

If he were not a Muslim would that make jims comments about killing most Muslims any less wrong?

As for the OP it not surprising that religion has come into the healthcare mush. Gawd knows what sort of litigation this will cause as religious groups try and avoid the taxes.


Well before there were taxes religious groups were exempt so why shouldnt they still be exempt?

[Gaffer]

If he were not a Muslim would that make jims comments about killing most Muslims any less wrong?

As for the OP it not surprising that religion has come into the healthcare mush. Gawd knows what sort of litigation this will cause as religious groups try and avoid the taxes.

You gonna defend muslims now?

[Noir]

You gonna defend muslims now?

Lololololololol
I did not see this one coming /sark.

I think it is wrong to say most Muslims should be shot, if you think that's defending Muslims then so be it.

Btw I also think it is wrong to say most Catholics should be shot, or protestants, or Jews, or Buddhists, or Taoists or....

Wow, looks like I'm a real defender of the religious, right?
Now take your quite obvious and stupidly foolish comment and be off with you.

[Noir]

Well before there were taxes religious groups were exempt so why shouldnt they still be exempt?

They are exempt from all taxes?
If not then they should pay.
If so then they should not have the right to vote (No representation without taxation!)

edit-You also did not answer my first question, ommitted by error or intention?

[Trigg]

http://www.wlky.com/news/23117925/detail.html

GOSHEN, Ind. -- Indiana's large Amish population will be exempt from new federal rules requiring most Americans to buy health insurance or pay a penalty.

The federal health-care overhaul legislation includes a carve-out for religious groups who have a conscientious objection to private or public insurance.

That includes the nation's 239,000 Amish, 40,000 of whom live in Indiana.

The Amish traditionally don't vote and have a long-established practice of avoiding government-run programs such as Social Security and Medicare.

They believe the church is responsible for caring for its members.
The Amish have negotiated costs with local doctors and hospitals. They rely on a community fund for any health care that they all donate to. Basically it is a private group plan. They are able to pay in cash and since there is no insurance filing for the doctors and hospitals they are able to get a discount of 50% or greater.

So, the reason they are exempt is not because of religion, but because they already have an "insurance" policy in place that meets gov. guidelines.


As for the OP it not surprising that religion has come into the health care mush. Gawd knows what sort of litigation this will cause as religious groups try and avoid the taxes.

The Amish are not exempt from any taxes, they still pay income and property taxes along with any sales tax. Again, this has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with them taking care of themselves and already having a system to pay for health care in place.

[Trigg]

They are exempt from all taxes?
If not then they should pay.
If so then they should not have the right to vote (No representation without taxation!)

As far as the Amish are concerned, they do pay taxes, the same taxes everyone else pays for.

They don't vote, at all, so they truly have taxation without representation. This is a choice they make, in order to separate themselves from outside influence.

[jimnyc]

I am muslim. he said we should kill all muslims

I'd like to see proof of this, like posts from a few years back showing you saying so. I know you outside this forum and you know that, and quite frankly, I'm calling bullshit on this one. I busted you lying a few years ago and once I peg someone as a liar I tend not to believe them anymore.

[jimnyc]

If he were not a Muslim would that make jims comments about killing most Muslims any less wrong?

As usual, you are an idiot. I never said kill all muslims nor did I say kill most muslims. I was referring to the majority of them who want free healthcare from us. It's a known fact that their religion calls for the death to infidels, which they classify us as, and I see no need to give them anything free as a reward.

[jimnyc]

I am muslim. he said we should kill all muslims

Interesting that you wrote this in another thread:


True! I am not thrilled about Islam or any other religion

Something smells fishy to me...

[Gaffer]

Lololololololol
I did not see this one coming /sark.

I think it is wrong to say most Muslims should be shot, if you think that's defending Muslims then so be it.

Btw I also think it is wrong to say most Catholics should be shot, or protestants, or Jews, or Buddhists, or Taoists or....

Wow, looks like I'm a real defender of the religious, right?
Now take your quite obvious and stupidly foolish comment and be off with you.

I don't think I will be off. I have many more stupidly foolish comments to make.

How about most muslims should be made to convert to anything but islam. Then shoot the remainder.

[Noir]

As usual, you are an idiot. I never said kill all muslims nor did I say kill most muslims. I was referring to the majority of them who want free healthcare from us. It's a known fact that their religion calls for the death to infidels, which they classify us as, and I see no need to give them anything free as a reward.


Erm...


They should probably shoot the majority of them and save the money.

Looks like you were saying kill most Muslims to me, but what do I know, I'm just an idiot.

[Noir]

I don't think I will be off. I have many more stupidly foolish comments to make.

How about most muslims should be made to convert to anything but islam. Then shoot the remainder.

Nopes, I would think that also wrong.
And infact is what they do in many islamic countries (i.e be part of our religon ans if you leave it you can be stonned to death)
why you would want to emulate these intolerent free-rights repressors k have no idea, but I guess you'd rather live in a dictatorship than a free country.
But no doubt you (and others) believe I am being the intolerent one here, somehow.

[chloe]

If he were not a Muslim would that make jims comments about killing most Muslims any less wrong?

As for the OP it not surprising that religion has come into the healthcare mush. Gawd knows what sort of litigation this will cause as religious groups try and avoid the taxes.

No, I don't think Jims comments were wrong in the context of which he said them.

As far as the religion aspect, previously before the commie regime religions that didn't practce medicine were never forced to buy health insurance. Now we have a Socialist President in office running government car dealerships, owning and censoring media and shoving healthcare mandates on everyones plate requiring they buy it.

In america we used to have rights to choose for ourselves. No A religious group that does not want to use medicine shouldnt be forced to pay for the insurance.

[jimnyc]

Erm...



Looks like you were saying kill most Muslims to me, but what do I know, I'm just an idiot.

Apparently you are! Look at the post I replied to, I was referring to muslims and healthcare. The OP was about Amish being exempt from the healthcare rules, and Pete311 posted a followup link about muslims, which is what I replied to. Instead of rushing to say "ohhh ohhh gotcha" when you think you're so damn smart, try using what little brain you have and read the context of posts first instead of clipping out portions to make a stupid point.

[Noir]

Apparently you are! Look at the post I replied to, I was referring to muslims and healthcare. The OP was about Amish being exempt from the healthcare rules, and Pete311 posted a followup link about muslims, which is what I replied to. Instead of rushing to say "ohhh ohhh gotcha" when you think you're so damn smart, try using what little brain you have and read the context of posts first instead of clipping out portions to make a stupid point.

oh I see, so you only want to shoot the majority of them that do not want to be forced to pay for ObamaCare, and there was me thinking you were being intolerent, how foolish I was, no?

[Gaffer]

Nopes, I would think that also wrong.
And infact is what they do in many islamic countries (i.e be part of our religon ans if you leave it you can be stonned to death)
why you would want to emulate these intolerent free-rights repressors k have no idea, but I guess you'd rather live in a dictatorship than a free country.
But no doubt you (and others) believe I am being the intolerent one here, somehow.

Actually I consider islam a very dangerous cult, and eventually extreme measures are going to be needed to deal with them. And atheists are not safe from them either. So don't feel smug like you will be overlooked. They will come for you too.

[jimnyc]

oh I see, so you only want to shoot the majority of them that do not want to be forced to pay for ObamaCare, and there was me thinking you were being intolerent, how foolish I was, no?

Nope, you're just an illiterate little kid who thinks he knows everything who wants to follow around a handful of members here to judge them. I don't even know why I bother replying to you anymore, you're too young, uneducated and naive to understand the real world anyway. You want to bash Catholics and claim you have the same issues with Islam, but stick to nothing but bashing Catholics and never post a peep about the non-stop terror antics they have been up to for the past 20 years. If you don't like my views on Muslims and what they preach daily, as an entire faith, then don't read my posts.

[chloe]

oh I see, so you only want to shoot the majority of them that do not want to be forced to pay for ObamaCare, and there was me thinking you were being intolerent, how foolish I was, no?


You are intolarant of religious people teaching religion to their kids. All People have levels of things they will tolerate and won't tolerate. Extreme Muslims attacked us and you aren't going to find alot of Americans loving them sorry. Your own opinion seems to lack a tolerance for anyone unless they agree with you and in that sense you are not much different then hogtrash.

[jimnyc]

Actually I consider islam a very dangerous cult, and eventually extreme measures are going to be needed to deal with them. And atheists are not safe from them either. So don't feel smug like you will be overlooked. They will come for you too.

He thinks that only a handful are bad. The faith itself teaches the stuff we discuss and I don't see one damn Muslim leader, or any Muslim for that fact, standing up to protest what the Qu'ran teaches and what the prophet of theirs supposedly stated. Hell, our leaders give speeches against any and all travesties that happen to other countries. The Muslim leaders never speak out against the terrorists when they lay their carnage around the world, and I don't see the every day Muslim doing it either. Just because one is not a terrorist, and not actively killing, doesn't mean they don't prescribe to the causes and beliefs.

[jimnyc]

You are intolarant of religious people teaching religion to their kids. All People have levels of things they will tolerate and won't tolerate. Extreme Muslims attacked us and you aren't going to find alot of Americans loving them sorry. Your own opinion seems to lack a tolerance for anyone unless they agree with you and in that sense you are not much different then hogtrash.

Don't you love how he constantly condemns the intolerance of others but is the first to continually condemn anyone who disagrees with homosexuality or other faiths teachings?

[Gaffer]

He thinks that only a handful are bad. The faith itself teaches the stuff we discuss and I don't see one damn Muslim leader, or any Muslim for that fact, standing up to protest what the Qu'ran teaches and what the prophet of theirs supposedly stated. Hell, our leaders give speeches against any and all travesties that happen to other countries. The Muslim leaders never speak out against the terrorists when they lay their carnage around the world, and I don't see the every day Muslim doing it either. Just because one is not a terrorist, and not actively killing, doesn't mean they don't prescribe to the causes and beliefs.

That's why I am against the entire muslim religion/cult. They don't teach tolerance, they teach patience until its time to strike.

[Noir]

It has happened quite often recently that I have been deliberitly misrepresented by what I think/say. To be honest this has been getting increasingly tiring, and it's no different in this thread 'he thinks this' 'he wants that' and so forth. Coming from an admin of all people is laughable IMO.
Anyways the long and the short of it is I will not be back, laters.

~Jonathan.

[LiberalNation]

hope you guys enjoy your little conservative circle jerk now.

[chloe]

hope you guys enjoy your little conservative circle jerk now.


Noir is over reacting, he has no problem making opinions that are not the most tolerant towards religions or religious people who teach religion to their kids. He is not tolerant of everyone, and he points out when others are intolarent. I haven't attacked you at all liberal nation and I haven't attacked Noir. Why is pointing out something that seems inconsistant to me a conservative circle jerk?

[jimnyc]

It has happened quite often recently that I have been deliberitly misrepresented by what I think/say. To be honest this has been getting increasingly tiring, and it's no different in this thread 'he thinks this' 'he wants that' and so forth. Coming from an admin of all people is laughable IMO.
Anyways the long and the short of it is I will not be back, laters.

~Jonathan.

Awwww... poor little baby can toss it out but runs when it comes back his way. So much for your preaching of tolerance.

[jimnyc]

hope you guys enjoy your little conservative circle jerk now.

My heart will bleed, tears will fall and I'll lose an abundance of sleep over a liberal once again bailing when they can't debate properly and have their own tactics tossed in their faces. The circle jerk you refer to is just an indication of how liberals wave the white flag and run when things get tough.

[jimnyc]

I am muslim. he said we should kill all muslims

If this is true...


it is obvious that the muslim religion is not a peaceful one, the world would be a safer place without it.

Do you deny that you wrote these words?

[pete311]

If this is true...


No of course I am not muslim, I am not a fan of islam, but seeking death to millions of women and children is just silly. (there are ~10m muslims in the us)

[chloe]

so you are equating the taliban with jim? btw, jim dishes it just as hard at me and others, how do you not know that


I didn't see him say you should die.


I am muslim. he said we should kill all muslims


Sorry, I didn't know you were muslim.


No of course I am not muslim, I am not a fan of islam, but seeking death to millions of women and children is just silly. (there are ~10m muslims in the us)


Why did you lie about being muslim ?

[pete311]

Why did you lie about being muslim ?

because once I was, it all of a sudden made a difference. i have plenty of moderate muslim friends and it would be completely hanis to kill them

[chloe]

because once I was, it all of a sudden made a difference. i have plenty of moderate muslim friends and it would be completely hanis to kill them

Right, because out of respect to your religious beliefs I would try an be more sensitive in how I word my opinion about Jims statement. But it wouldn't change the fact that of context in which Jim made the statement.

So now I don't trust your opinion or even your views because you are able to stoop to falsifying things to try and win instead of just stating your opinion and letting your truth be enough to sway someone to your point of view. That is not very nice.

Your statement was very personal about Jim, you said maybe Jim should die. You didn't say maybe amish people should, so your context was personal and mean.

[pete311]

Right, because out of respect to your religious beliefs I would try an be more sensitive in how I word my opinion about Jims statement. But it wouldn't change the fact that of context in which Jim made the statement.
So only when you know someones beliefs you are sensitive?



So now I don't trust your opinion or even your views because you are able to stoop to falsifying things to try and win instead of just stating your opinion and letting your truth be enough to sway someone to your point of view. That is not very nice.
I figured this would be the backlash. I was prepared for it. But really stating what I am really doesn't matter in the context of the argument. Whether I am Muslim, Jewish or Christian doesn't render any game changing arguments. I did it to wake you guys up from objectifying and dehumanizing people of different belief groups. I bet you don't have any Muslim friends. That is why when I said I was Muslim, all of a sudden Muslims were human and you cared.



Your statement was very personal about Jim, you said maybe Jim should die. You didn't say maybe amish people should, so your context was personal and mean.
Sure it was. But I am not serious of course. I use such language to try to flip the table and maybe have them feel empathy which is very rare on this forum. I don't understand your logic of being in support of mass murder, but not of an individual. Again, I think you objectify and dehumanize large groups. When suddenly you know someone in the mix, it becomes different. You know, that is exactly how serial killers think.

[chloe]

So only when you know someones beliefs you are sensitive?


I figured this would be the backlash. I was prepared for it. But really stating what I am really doesn't matter in the context of the argument. Whether I am Muslim, Jewish or Christian doesn't render any game changing arguments. I did it to wake you guys up from objectifying and dehumanizing people of different belief groups. I bet you don't have any Muslim friends. That is why when I said I was Muslim, all of a sudden Muslims were human and you cared.


Sure it was. But I am not serious of course. I use such language to try to flip the table and maybe have them feel empathy which is very rare on this forum. I don't understand your logic of being in support of mass murder, but not of an individual. Again, I think you objectify and dehumanize large groups. When suddenly you know someone in the mix, it becomes different. You know, that is exactly how serial killers think.

Wrong, I still backed Jim up even after you said you were muslim, however, because you said you were muslim I was sensitive enough to understand why it would be so upsetting to you, because it seemed like you were responding so personally towards Jim, especially when you said the thing about maybe he should die. So in the reality you used a lie to manipulate what you percieved as more sympathy by saying your something you are not and also used that in a way to justify the personal attack towards Jim. This is why I don't trust you now. It is not important to me whether someone who uses tricks instead of there truth as a conviction understands my thinking process.

[pete311]

Wrong, I still backed Jim up even after you said you were muslim. This is why I don't trust you now.

I'd rather be a lier than Pol Pot. Have fun killing women and children. Reeeal nice.

[chloe]

I'd rather be a lier than Pol Pot.

what does pol pot mean?

[pete311]

what does pol pot mean?

One of the worst mass murders of all time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot

His men would force children to shoot their own parents and bash babies against trees till they died. He was responsible for annihilating 1/4 of Cambodians. I was there last month, it's not funny or a game.

[chloe]

One of the worst mass murders of all time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot

His men would force children to shoot their own parents and bash babies against trees till they died. He was responsible for annihilating 1/4 of Cambodians. I was there last month, it's not funny or a game.


Oh I read it he sounds like a terrible person, and he is a communist. I don't support commies or socialism. I don't support governments forcing a healthcare agenda on people who have a constitution to protect there free rights to choose whether they even want healthcare or not.

So I don't know how you think I am like a communist dictator. It seems to me that people who support america becoming like communist countries support that sort of thing. But then again your a known fibber so you prolly don't even think that about me:cool:

[pete311]

So I don't know how you think I am like a communist dictator. It seems to me that people who support america becoming like communist countries support that sort of thing. But then again your a known fibber so you prolly don't even think that about me:cool:

You are supporting Jim and his wish to annihilate 10 million american muslim men, women and children.

[chloe]

You are supporting Jim and his wish to annihilate 10 million american muslim men, women and children.

I am sure the muslims who are faithful and true to their religion support killing american men, women and children who are not muslim since that is what the religion teaches about infidels. So you support that sentiment or do you ? we prolly don't know since you like to lie to make your points.

[pete311]

I am sure the muslims who are faithful and true to their religion support killing american men, women and children who are not muslim since that is what the religion teaches about infidels. So you support that sentiment or do you ? we prolly don't know since you like to lie to make your points.

I will ignore your jabs, but keep making them if you feel better from it.

I am not a fan of Islam, but from my experience with Muslim friends and visiting five muslim countries it's simply not true. Perhaps then they are not faithful, whatever. As an american I've never felt safer than in a muslim country. Even if most Muslims wanted to kill all infidels, then you are simply stooping to their level and joining them in the hanis wish of mass murder.

[chloe]

I will ignore your jabs, but keep making them if you feel better from it.

I am not a fan of Islam, but from my experience with Muslim friends and visiting five muslim countries it's simply not true. Perhaps then they are not faithful, whatever. As an american I've never felt safer than in a muslim country. Even if most Muslims wanted to kill all infidels, then you are simply stooping to their level and joining them in the hanis wish of mass murder.

Why is that a jab? I am explaining why it is hard for me to respond to you, because you said you lie to make points, so when you say you personally think of me as a communist killer named pol pot, that may or may not be true and so my response has to be generic.

If most muslims living in america wanted to kill all the non-muslim americans then I want them gone. You stoop to lying and then you attempt to be self righteous or something by acting like I should feel bad about being patriotic to my country America. I love America it is the best Country in the World. I sure hope it doesnt become what that country pol pot ruled became.

[pete311]

If most muslims living in america wanted to kill all the non-muslim americans then I want them gone. You stoop to lying and then you attempt to be self righteous or something by acting like I should feel bad about being patriotic to my country America. I love America it is the best Country in the World. I sure hope it doesnt become what that country pol pot ruled became.

Well we've lived peacefully with the vast majority of them so your phobia is unjustified. You should feel bad about supporting mass murder! I think your phobia clouds the actual act of murdering 10 million people. You imagine yourself lining up 10 million muslim american men, women and children. Look at their faces as you shoot them in the head.

Dearborn MI has 40,000 muslims. When was the last time you heard about Dearborn? Never, because they are peaceful american families.

[chloe]

Well we've lived peacefully with the vast majority of them so your phobia is unjustified. You should feel bad about supporting mass murder! I think your phobia clouds the actual act of murdering 10 million people. You imagine yourself lining up 10 million muslim american men, women and children. Look at their faces as you shoot them in the head.


I will only imagine that toward the enemies of my country. Now you are just perpetuating us in circles. but I have to go to sleep so we will have to spin another day.:beer:

[SassyLady]

Well we've lived peacefully with the vast majority of them so your phobia is unjustified. You should feel bad about supporting mass murder! I think your phobia clouds the actual act of murdering 10 million people. You imagine yourself lining up 10 million muslim american men, women and children. Look at their faces as you shoot them in the head.

Dearborn MI has 40,000 muslims. When was the last time you heard about Dearborn? Never, because they are peaceful american families.

You know .... there are millions of pit bulls in America and people have a healthy fear of them because every now and then they snap and attack and they are so vicious that when they attack they do great damage.

I think people in America have a view of Islamic extremism that parallels the pit bull paranoia. When things like 9/11 and Ft. Hood happen people will have a tendency to be hyper-vigilant about being around Muslims. Just because people are creating laws in some cities banning pit bulls does not mean that every pit bull should be exterminated. However, that doesn't mean we don't feel it might be safer to do it.

I personally feel that it is healthy to have a little paranoia about the Islamic extremist religion ..... however, if you want to play koombyah with your life and travel to the Muslim countries, that is your business.

I have enjoyed debating with you, pete, over the last few days, but knowing that you will lie about who you are, who you did or did not vote for, what religion you are, etc., is very deflating. I certainly don't want to waste my time with someone who doesn't have enough conviction in their beliefs to tell the truth.

You do know that from this moment on the people of this board will not believe anything you have to say so why bother posting anything.

[pete311]

You know .... there are millions of pit bulls in America and people have a healthy fear of them because every now and then they snap and attack and they are so vicious that when they attack they do great damage.

According to this article there are ~620,000 pit bulls, but that fact isn't important. Certainly we don't ban them country wide or shot them all in the head.
http://www.goodnewsforpets.com/petworld/archive/pitbulls.htm



I think people in America have a view of Islamic extremism that parallels the pit bull paranoia. When things like 9/11 and Ft. Hood happen people will have a tendency to be hyper-vigilant about being around Muslims. Just because people are creating laws in some cities banning pit bulls does not mean that every pit bull should be exterminated. However, that doesn't mean we don't feel it might be safer to do it.
Why don't you just kill everyone but yourself. That would make you feel real safe, no? Sure we are hyper-vigilant, but that is just a reactionary defense mechanism and stereotype we need to overcome.



I personally feel that it is healthy to have a little paranoia about the Islamic extremist religion ..... however, if you want to play koombyah with your life and travel to the Muslim countries, that is your business.
I agree we need to be wary of extremist islam. Most definitely. We should bring terrorists to justice. Just as I would say we need to bring gang members in detroit to justice. But we don't exterminate the people of detroit because some of them belong to gangs.



I have enjoyed debating with you, pete, over the last few days, but knowing that you will lie about who you are, who you did or did not vote for, what religion you are, etc., is very deflating. I certainly don't want to waste my time with someone who doesn't have enough conviction in their beliefs to tell the truth.

You do know that from this moment on the people of this board will not believe anything you have to say so why bother posting anything.

Acceptable, Jim might even ban me. If not, then pay no attention to unimportant details of my life and focus on the message. I will make it easier for everyone and try to provide sources for my claims as much as I can.

[jimnyc]

pete311, you want to jump all over me for supposedly wanting all Muslims eliminated...


it is obvious that the muslim religion is not a peaceful one, the world would be a safer place without it.
I'm just saying if I had to eliminate one religion in the world it would be muslim religion
So what you end up calling for is a destruction of religion?

Well I guess I am. Why not?Seems you previously called for the elimination of Muslims previously. Did you plan on this by peacefully converting all of them or just nicely asking them to disband Islam?

Hypocrite

[jimnyc]

Acceptable, Jim might even ban me. If not, then pay no attention to unimportant details of my life and focus on the message. I will make it easier for everyone and try to provide sources for my claims as much as I can.

Wouldn't ban you unless you broke the rules. I've already told you, I like the way you've handled yourself and debated thus far. I just don't think lying is one of those ways, even if to make a point.

[Gaffer]

So pete's a liar and a spin doctor and loves to play the guilt trip card. I'm surprised he didn't bring out the race card as well. All the qualities of a true blue liberal.

pol pot was a communist that came to power with the fall of South Vietnam, which happened because the democrat congress here voted to cut off all aid and supplies to South Vietnam. His regime was a direct result of democrat actions. Much of the same things happened in Vietnam and Laos. The communists aren't happy with opposition. If our current regime can get the control they want we will see the same thing in this country.

There are no moderate muslims. There are just waiting muslims. They wait till they are strong enough to strike. Until they lay low, they lie, they do whatever is necessary to perpetrate their religion and when they are strong enough they rise up. It's all in the quran, the whole battle plan is completely laid out. And you supporting their "rights" makes you a dhimmi. Blindly supporting their cause the same way you blindly follow your communist masters.

Lying to make a point is not ok, even though liberals and muslims think it is. Your credibility here is at zero.

[LiberalNation]

cuz we all know your an expert on islam with your vast experience as a muslim. That's like saying there are no moderate christians out of the millions who practice the religion. genocidal fuck gona burn in hell. God loves all his children, even the muzzies.

[chloe]

Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini
"Those who know nothing about Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those people are witless. Islam says: 'Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all!' Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by the infidel? Islam says: 'Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter them.' Islam says: 'Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword.' The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim."

bcLK2cVkoQE

CgkFM4i-0Ao

[Gaffer]

Good find Chloe, I have to spread the rep again.

[jimnyc]

So pete's a liar and a spin doctor and loves to play the guilt trip card. I'm surprised he didn't bring out the race card as well. All the qualities of a true blue liberal.

Lying to make a point is not ok, even though liberals and muslims think it is. Your credibility here is at zero.

When one needs to lie during a debate it makes me wonder whether or not they are just trolling. I wonder if pete would have a reason to be upset with me and maybe he thinks trolling is a way of exacting revenge? :coffee:

[jimnyc]

cuz we all know your an expert on islam with your vast experience as a muslim. That's like saying there are no moderate christians out of the millions who practice the religion. genocidal fuck gona burn in hell. God loves all his children, even the muzzies.

And yet you try and portray yourself as some sort of expert on military relations and your only experience is making naive, unfounded and defamatory statements about them.

[LiberalNation]

I would beg to differ although even as a cadet I have served more than you. I post what the news prints, nothing more or less.

[jimnyc]

I would beg to differ although even as a cadet I have served more than you. I post what the news prints, nothing more or less.

So you're saying you never offered your opinion/commentary just above an article you posted? You're a fucking liar as well!

[LiberalNation]

this site is all about commentary, ie discussion board.

[jimnyc]

this site is all about commentary, ie discussion board.

Then don't say you only post what the news prints about the military and "nothing more and nothing less" - because it's a lie. You posted MANY opinions about the military that have been defamatory and degrading towards our soldiers.

[LiberalNation]

critical does not equal defamatory.

[jimnyc]

critical does not equal defamatory.

No, it doesn't, but often your comments have risen to the level of defamation. And often your "critical" assessments were of unfounded or uncorroborated stories. In other words, you have posted stories often just to get your jollies by ripping the military in order to offend some here. You post as anti-military and then want a pat on the back for being a "cadet".

[Abbey Marie]

...
I don't understand your logic of being in support of mass murder, but not of an individual. Again, I think you objectify and dehumanize large groups. When suddenly you know someone in the mix, it becomes different. You know, that is exactly how serial killers think.

And abortionists.

[pete311]

pete311, you want to jump all over me for supposedly wanting all Muslims eliminated...

Seems you previously called for the elimination of Muslims previously. Did you plan on this by peacefully converting all of them or just nicely asking them to disband Islam?

Hypocrite

What the? Can you link me to where I made such remarks? I am dumbfounded as to when I would have. Maybe you rounded up some posts I made 5-6 years ago???


Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini
"Those who know nothing about Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those people are witless. Isl...

Not sure what you point you are trying to make here. I've said time and time again I am not a fan of Islam and that we must bring the terrorists to justice.


When one needs to lie during a debate it makes me wonder whether or not they are just trolling. I wonder if pete would have a reason to be upset with me and maybe he thinks trolling is a way of exacting revenge? :coffee:

Jim, no logic for revenge, I made money off that deal.


And abortionists.

Agreed.

[jimnyc]

What the? Can you link me to where I made such remarks? I am dumbfounded as to when I would have. Maybe you rounded up some posts I made 5-6 years ago???

Sending you the link via PM for your own privacy....

Does stating it a few years ago make it somehow ok or different?

[jimnyc]

Sp pete, you tell me that you spoke those words 8 years ago and you have since changed and "nice try though". You condemn someone for speaking out the way I did against Islam and called for the elimination of the entire faith yourself - then want to take your words back because it was awhile back. I've learned over my many years that people don't really change. No offense, with your short posting history already, I think you're no more than a liar.

[pete311]

Sending you the link via PM for your own privacy....

Does stating it a few years ago make it somehow ok or different?

Thanks Jim!

It most definitely does. Just to validate for the forum, yes those are my words. I made them eight years ago and I am ashamed of it now. I was a sophomore in college with no world experience. I am a much different person now. People grow and develop.

[jimnyc]

Thanks Jim!

It most definitely does. Just to validate for the forum, yes those are my words. I made them eight years ago and I am ashamed of it now. I was a sophomore in college with no world experience. I am a much different person now. People grow and develop.

Hey, if you say so! I'll remember to take back my own words next time I want to be hypocritical and call you out.

[pete311]

I've learned over my many years that people don't really change.

People certainly may change less as they get older. But dude, I was barely 19-20 years old and just forming my identity and ideas. You were set in stone at age 20? I think not. Most people aren't. In fact at 27, I tweak my views almost every day with new information I learn.

[pete311]

Hey, if you say so! I'll remember to take back my own words next time I want to be hypocritical and call you out.

I haven't taken anything back. Yes I said those things 8 years ago. But I think differently now as I've matured. If you want to change your views in a few years or even tomorrow, I'd respect that. It's called growth. You likely have some different views that when you were 19-20.