*USA Spends 8 Billion Yearly On AIDS In Africa*

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Yeah I as a tax payer spend 8 billion a year to send meds to people of Africa for AIDS, just saw it on the 60 Minutes Show.
2. Yet we in America have the best medical treatment available but only the poor, those old, and those lucky enough to have insurance with a big corp, can access it.
3. And I'm the only one in America who see's it this way.
4. We spend on others but to our own we are shit.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[actsnoblemartin]

its the save the world, screw our own mentality that most have


Sorry bout that,


1. Yeah I as a tax payer spend 8 billion a year to send meds to people of Africa for AIDS, just saw it on the 60 Minutes Show.
2. Yet we in America have the best medical treatment available but only the poor, those old, and those lucky enough to have insurance with a big corp, can access it.
3. And I'm the only one in America who see's it this way.
4. We spend on others but to our own we are shit.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Noir]

Yep. And it's all in vain, you can thank the Catholic church for doing there bit to help spread aids.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,




Yep. And it's all in vain, you can thank the Catholic church for doing there bit to help spread aids.





1. LOL!!!!!



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Noir]

Sorry bout that,
1. LOL!!!!!
Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Why the lol?
If one man had chosen to say that yes condoms were bad, but not as bad as aids, it would of done more to stop the spread of aids than any amount of funds from the USA will.
But the church chose not to, and has the blood of countless dead and dying on their hands because of it, aswell as plenty of your wasted tax dollars.
I do not find anything 'lol' about that.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Oh sure, I forgot.
2. And what did the muslims do to help people die from AIDS Noir?
3. You hate Catholics for no good reason.
4. While I hate islam for good reason.
5. Anyways, lets not make this topic about religion, its about American healthcare and my and our tax dollars..


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Noir]

Sorry bout that,


1. Oh sure, I forgot.
2. And what did the muslims do to help people die from AIDS Noir?
3. You hate Catholics for no good reason.
4. While I hate islam for good reason.
5. Anyways, lets not make this topic about religion, its about American healthcare and my and our tax dollars..


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

I'm quite sure the Muslim states in Africa are just as bad, though I have no personal knowledge of them as I do the Catholic church. It is however good to see you are not defending the chruch on this charge, but rather attacking other religions, because ofcourse as I have said many times, it is religion that is the problem, show me a atheist scientist who claims condoms are worse than aids and I shall eat my own hat. But fair enough if you do not wish it to be discussed further in this thread I shall not.

[chloe]

I'm quite sure the Muslim states in Africa are just as bad, though I have no personal knowledge of them as I do the Catholic church. It is however good to see you are not defending the chruch on this charge, but rather attacking other religions, because ofcourse as I have said many times, it is religion that is the problem, show me a atheist scientist who claims condoms are worse than aids and I shall eat my own hat. But fair enough if you do not wish it to be discussed further in this thread I shall not.


Is there a religion that said its better to get aids then use a condom?

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Condoms wont stop AIDS, didn't then and won't now.
2. Its just more BS from Noir.
3. They want USA pills, for free, which we as tax payers in America I pay for them.
4. They still get AIDS, everyday, and condoms hasn't helped one bit.
5. Its a cursed land, its a muslim thing, and yet we help them, and people like myself pay for it.
6. Other muslim countries wont be paying for any of it.
7. I think the worlds tuened up side down.
8. Ahh hell, who gives a damn anymore anyways?
9. Lets just pay for all the worlds ills, the American tax payers, and neglect our own peoples.
10. The PC Police demand it.
11. Americans are stupid, its a fact, I see it now, might as well just let it happen now, nothing will ever be done to change things here.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[revelarts]

George W Bush
State of he union 2003

....Across the Earth, America is feeding the hungry. More than 60 percent of international food aid comes as a gift from the people of the United States.

As our nation moves troops and builds alliances to make our world safer, we must also remember our calling, as a blessed country, is to make the world better.

Today, on the continent of Africa, nearly 30 million people have the AIDS virus, including 3 million children under the age of 15. There are whole countries in Africa where more than one-third of the adult population carries the infection. More than 4 million require immediate drug treatment. Yet across that continent, only 50,000 AIDS victims--only 50,000--are receiving the medicine they need.

Because the AIDS diagnosis is considered a death sentence, many do not seek treatment. Almost all who do are turned away.

A doctor in rural South Africa describes his frustration. He says, ``We have no medicines, many hospitals tell people, 'You've got AIDS. We can't help you. Go home and die'.'' In an age of miraculous medicines, no person should have to hear those words.

(APPLAUSE)

AIDS can be prevented. Anti-retroviral drugs can extend life for many years. And the cost of those drugs has dropped from $12,000 a year to under $300 a year, which places a tremendous possibility within our grasp.

Ladies and gentlemen, seldom has history offered a greater opportunity to do so much for so many. We have confronted, and will continue to confront, HIV/AIDS in our own country. And to meet a severe and urgent crisis abroad, tonight I propose the Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, a work of mercy beyond all current international efforts to help the people of Africa.

This comprehensive plan will prevent 7 million new AIDS infections, treat at least 2 million people with life-extending drugs and provide humane care for millions of people suffering from AIDS and for children orphaned by AIDS.

I ask the Congress to commit $15 billion over the next five years, including nearly $10 billion in new money, to turn the tide against AIDS in the most afflicted nations of Africa and the Caribbean.

(APPLAUSE)

This nation can lead the world in sparing innocent people from a plague of nature.

As much as I like the idea of helping, we don't have the money for all this...

[HogTrash]

I know of no other nation with it's priorities as screwed up as the United States...Is it any wonder we are bankrupt?

Of the many things that are destroying our economy, none are unforseeable market colapses, natural disasters or even human error.

It almost seems to be an intentional concerted effort by our government to do whatever it takes to destroy the economy of the United States.

Any and every US dollar that can be rerouted to a place or project that pays no return or benefits no American, seems to be the #1 economic priority.

We are literally borrowing money to give away...Is this just bad management or are the people in charge simply stupid or is America's enemies at the helm?

A nation whose government has turned against it is doomed unless the people awaken to their situation and take charge.

[cat slave]

:clap::clap::clap:

I can add nothing to that beyond the fact if they used condoms they wouldnt be producing offspring that they
cannot care for, feed, educate nor anything else...just
watch the flies swarm them as they starve to death.

I was never impressed with Mother Teresas work. It looked
good on the surface but she would have served her people
far better
by teaching birth control than more than anything else.

Yeah, I know no one mentioned her but I cant think
about starving people without thinking about that.

[Binky]

Sorry bout that,


1. Yeah I as a tax payer spend 8 billion a year to send meds to people of Africa for AIDS, just saw it on the 60 Minutes Show.
2. Yet we in America have the best medical treatment available but only the poor, those old, and those lucky enough to have insurance with a big corp, can access it.
3. And I'm the only one in America who see's it this way.
4. We spend on others but to our own we are shit.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


We spend on others to make ourselves look better in the eyes of the world, when in fact, our gov't couldn't give a crapola about its citizens other than to make damn sure we pay our taxes......and keep our heads buried in the sand with our mouths slammed shut......

If we stopped spending our money on programs in other countries, or squandering it on such and such in America, I'd dare say we'd be able to balance our budget and still have some left over for rainy days. You know, like spending $50 on a hammer when they could purchase one for $2? Wasteful spending just for the sake of spending.

At the rate America is going, it'll be foreclosed on by the Chinese........:eek:

[Jeff]

We spend on others to make ourselves look better in the eyes of the world, when in fact, our gov't couldn't give a crapola about its citizens other than to make damn sure we pay our taxes......and keep our heads buried in the sand with our mouths slammed shut......

If we stopped spending our money on programs in other countries, or squandering it on such and such in America, I'd dare say we'd be able to balance our budget and still have some left over for rainy days. You know, like spending $50 on a hammer when they could purchase one for $2? Wasteful spending just for the sake of spending.

At the rate America is going, it'll be foreclosed on by the Chinese........:eek:

In am all for helping the less fortunate , but Osama has us pretty close if not already less fortunate than some of the places we are sending money to

I wonder in another 6 months with Osama and the food lines begin how many of these countries will be sending relieve for the USA ?

[pete311]

the process is horribly inefficient and corrupt no doubt, but the act is good. i don't get this whole american selfishness attitude. do any of you guys travel abroad? I've been to tanzania, zambia and rwanda. There are some truly amazing and beautiful people in these countries that do require help. It's like the world is a sports league where we are rivals against each other. no one owns the earth. we are here on borrowed time and should cooperate and help each other. instead of saying it's a bad idea, let's figure out how to make it more efficient and productive

[Binky]

In am all for helping the less fortunate , but Osama has us pretty close if not already less fortunate than some of the places we are sending money to

I wonder in another 6 months with Osama and the food lines begin how many of these countries will be sending relieve for the USA ?


Let me take a guess....aaaaahhhhh...........oh yeah, zero, zip, zilch, nada, none.... Does that sound about right to you?


I don't mind helping either, but how long have we been pouring money into aids relief in Africa? And to think.............there is still no relief from it.....And there never will be......so...........my guess is that we will be paying for it from now on.......Or until the Chinese step in and call in our loans for which we can't pay, and then they'll have to deal with it.....While we become subservient to them.......:eek::eek:

My dad served in the army in WW2, he'd be shitting his britches right now if he could see the way America is headed and the trail it has been going down.... Just disgusting.......

[pete311]

My dad served in the army in WW2, he'd be shitting his britches right now if he could see the way America is headed and the trail it has been going down.... Just disgusting.......

and ben franklin would prolly shit himself too if he saw your fathers generation. it's been a slow progression ever since the declaration. change is inevitable, it's called life. you want a new pres every four years and think things will stay the same?

[Jeff]

and ben franklin would prolly shit himself too if he saw your fathers generation. it's been a slow progression ever since the declaration. change is inevitable, it's called life. you want a new pres every four years and think things will stay the same?

A new President ever 4 years is fine, preferably one not shoving shit down our throats, one that isn't more concerned about the tragedies in other countries when he is driving our country into the toilet

No nothing ever stays the same I agree, but we have values or did in this country, sending money all over the world to make others feel better about us is at best crazy, and yes this is one of the things that has been going on for years, we need to take care of our own back yard first, and that shouldn't change no matter how often the president does

[pete311]

A new President ever 4 years is fine, preferably one not shoving shit down our throats, one that isn't more concerned about the tragedies in other countries when he is driving our country into the toilet

No nothing ever stays the same I agree, but we have values or did in this country, sending money all over the world to make others feel better about us is at best crazy, and yes this is one of the things that has been going on for years, we need to take care of our own back yard first, and that shouldn't change no matter how often the president does

perhaps, but know that this utopia that people seek in our own society has never been and will never be. so if you say that we should not give out aid (note I am for efficient and productive aid) until we are a perfect society, well then we will never give out aid ever.

[HogTrash]

the process is horribly inefficient and corrupt no doubt, but the act is good. i don't get this whole american selfishness attitude. do any of you guys travel abroad? I've been to tanzania, zambia and rwanda. There are some truly amazing and beautiful people in these countries that do require help. It's like the world is a sports league where we are rivals against each other. no one owns the earth. we are here on borrowed time and should cooperate and help each other. instead of saying it's a bad idea, let's figure out how to make it more efficient and productiveLiberals are always so very willing to show their generosity with other people's money, by force if necessary.

Let's make it personal Pete...Would you mortgage your home to feed tanzanians, zambians and rwandans?

[pete311]

Liberals are always so very willing to show their generosity with other people's money, by force if necessary.

Let's make it personal Pete...Would you mortgage your home to feed tanzanians, zambians and rwandans?

Of course not, that drastic of a move is not realistic and I wouldn't expect anyone to do that. But I do expect everyone to do their part. I fully expect that our administration pisses away money, but the idea is good. We just need to use it better.

Also I am unsure about food distribution outside of a disaster. I know of the argument stating that artificially feeding the hungry will only create more hunger. We end up supporting a system of dependence. If an area can only support 100 people and a few babies go hungry. If we support those hungry babies then they survive and have their own children and own children and suddenly we have 200 people in an area that can only support 100 but it survives off donation.

Anyway, I am in support of empowering self reliant communities, entrepreneurs and medical services.

[HogTrash]

Of course not, that drastic of a move is not realistic and I wouldn't expect anyone to do that. But I do expect everyone to do their part. I fully expect that our administration pisses away money, but the idea is good. We just need to use it better.

Also I am unsure about food distribution outside of a disaster. I know of the argument stating that artificially feeding the hungry will only create more hunger. We end up supporting a system of dependence. If an area can only support 100 people and a few babies go hungry. If we support those hungry babies then they survive and have their own children and own children and suddenly we have 200 people in an area that can only support 100 but it survives off donation.We are now literally borrowing money to give away and mortgaging our childrens future by spending wages they have not even earned yet.


Anyway, I am in support of empowering self reliant communities, entrepreneurs and medical services.How about empowering the people to manage their own charitable contributions as they see fit, and removing government from the equation?

[Mr. P]

We are now literally borrowing money to give away and mortgaging our childrens future by spending wages they have not even earned yet.

How about empowering the people to manage their own charitable contributions as they see fit, and removing government from the equation?

You were much kinder than I expected or I would be.
I think we have a new young liberal here from what I've read around the board so far.

Pete..explain "But I do expect everyone to do their part." please.

[pete311]

We are now literally borrowing money to give away and mortgaging our childrens future by spending wages they have not even earned yet.

How about empowering the people to manage their own charitable contributions as they see fit, and removing government from the equation?

Certainly that is a problem. I am not smart enough to figure that situation out. I wish more people would take aid into their own hands. I am afraid most people don't do as much as they could. Again, I think we should not confuse the act of proper aid with the corruption and inefficiencies of our government.


You were much kinder than I expected or I would be.
I think we have a new young liberal here from what I've read around the board so far.

Pete..explain "But I do expect everyone to do their part." please.

Mr. P, I consider myself a centrist social moderate, whatever that means to you. What it means to me is that I see everything as gray area. I believe in a mixture of political, social and economic views. I like taking the best parts of each and cobbling something together. I am sure that is not realistic, but so be it. I also admit I am not formally educated in politics, sociology or economics, so when I wrong on facts I will be humble and admit it.

I think we all have a duty to support each other. The means in which we can support each other are endless and varied. It does not have a $$$ or time amount. Maybe it means, donating clothes to salvation army each year. Maybe it means being a mentor to a troubled kid. Maybe it means donating to red cross. Maybe it means sponsoring a child. Maybe it means picking up trash on the side of the highway for an afternoon. Maybe it means volunteering at a Peruvian orphanage. The world is getting very small very quickly. We are truly in a global age. An age in which we can't ignore other countries because the "health" of those countries does impact ours. A world in which america is a utopia and the rest of the world is in shambles is fantasy. We either "all" improve or we all fail.

[Jeff]

perhaps, but know that this utopia that people seek in our own society has never been and will never be. so if you say that we should not give out aid (note I am for efficient and productive aid) until we are a perfect society, well then we will never give out aid ever.

Pete First off welcome to the board, and I do agree with you to a point, but the shape this country is in right now there is no way I can see sending money to help anyone, Obama has us on the brinks of food lines, IMO the brinks of a civil war, again that is just my opinion but I think most would agree when ya are broke ya just can't drop that buck into the Salvation army bucket

Now if times were different and we where able to take care of our own, but the economy still not perfect I would say you are absolutely right, but there not, and they are getting worse everyday

[pete311]

Pete First off welcome to the board, and I do agree with you to a point, but the shape this country is in right now there is no way I can see sending money to help anyone, Obama has us on the brinks of food lines, IMO the brinks of a civil war, again that is just my opinion but I think most would agree when ya are broke ya just can't drop that buck into the Salvation army bucket

Now if times were different and we where able to take care of our own, but the economy still not perfect I would say you are absolutely right, but there not, and they are getting worse everyday

It certainly would be nice if aid could properly scale year to year depending on our own need. Say we aid only 5b next year and when things are better we go back to maybe 7b.

[Mr. P]

Certainly that is a problem. I am not smart enough to figure that situation out. I wish more people would take aid into their own hands. I am afraid most people don't do as much as they could. Again, I think we should not confuse the act of proper aid with the corruption and inefficiencies of our government.



Mr. P, I consider myself a centrist social moderate, whatever that means to you. What it means to me is that I see everything as gray area. I believe in a mixture of political, social and economic views. I like taking the best parts of each and cobbling something together. I am sure that is not realistic, but so be it. I also admit I am not formally educated in politics, sociology or economics, so when I wrong on facts I will be humble and admit it.

I think we all have a duty to support each other. The means in which we can support each other are endless and varied. It does not have a $$$ or time amount. Maybe it means, donating clothes to salvation army each year. Maybe it means being a mentor to a troubled kid. Maybe it means donating to red cross. Maybe it means sponsoring a child. Maybe it means picking up trash on the side of the highway for an afternoon. Maybe it means volunteering at a Peruvian orphanage. The world is getting very small very quickly. We are truly in a global age. An age in which we can't ignore other countries because the "health" of those countries does impact ours. A world in which america is a utopia and the rest of the world is in shambles is fantasy. We either "all" improve or we all fail.

I have no problem with voluntary individual giving. I do have a problem with the government taking my money at gun point and giving it to others be they individuals or countries. Charity is nowhere in our Constitution, it's NOT a function of government.

[pete311]

I have no problem with voluntary individual giving. I do have a problem with the government taking my money at gun point and giving it to others be they individuals or countries. Charity is nowhere in our Constitution, it's NOT a function of government.

I understand. I guess I am ok with it as long as it's productive and efficient. Of course it never is, *sigh*.

[Kathianne]

I understand. I guess I am ok with it as long as it's productive and efficient. Of course it never is, *sigh*.

:smoke: Several times now you seem to acknowledge how wasteful government is, yet you keep saying that you are 'ok' with it running things it has no business running. I find that confusing.

I wonder if you realize that private donations from the US to disasters often, if not usually outpace what the government 'gives?' Do you really think that with the great increase in government and subsequent taxes necessary that the private donations will continue?

Do you really think government will solve the problems of poverty, ignorance, racism? Do you really think it's ok for government to take money from you and give it to me, just because I make less or do not act responsibly?

[pete311]

Do you really think that with the great increase in government and subsequent taxes necessary that the private donations will continue?

What I think is that if the gov takes away the 8b aid, private donations will not come anywhere close to filling the hole.

[Kathianne]

What I think is that if the gov takes away the 8b aid, private donations will not come anywhere close to filling the hole.

Should anyone, private or public spend money they don't have? Should I donate off my Visa, if I can't pay my Visa off in the foreseeable future? Would that be responsible?

While it might be still be irresponsible, I would use my Visa to by food, but I'd be very careful with what I bought.

I can see 'deficit spending' for caring for our country, not for foreign aid. Either the private folks give what they will or the 'rest of the world' should step up for a bat.

I find it interesting that you took one sentence out of a quote, without any ellipsis to indicate what went before or after.

[pete311]

Should anyone, private or public spend money they don't have?
This is an entirely different debate, but I feel most people are reckless and irresponsible with their money. America has very few actual poor people. Just peer into any area of poverty and it will still be filled with cars, cellphones and tvs. I believe most people have an extra $50 a year to donate.



I find it interesting that you took one sentence out of a quote, without any ellipsis to indicate what went before or after.

I did so because I don't have an argument with the other statements you made.

[Kathianne]

This is an entirely different debate, but I feel most people are reckless and irresponsible with their money. America has very few actual poor people. Just peer into any area of poverty and it will still be filled with cars, cellphones and tvs. I believe most people have an extra $50 a year to donate.



I did so because I don't have an argument with the other statements you made.

Actually I the average donations of citizens is well above $50 per year.

http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2007/June/200706261522251CJsamohT0.8012354.html


26 June 2007

Charitable Donations by Americans Reach Record High
Individual giving accounts for 83 percent of $295 billion total in 2006





Salvation Army workers load a donated mobile canteen with food donations to be used in the aftermath of a disaster. (© AP Images)
By Jeffrey Thomas
USINFO Staff Writer

Washington -- Americans increased their charitable donations significantly in 2006 to more than $295 billion -- a record, according to a study released June 25 by the Giving USA Foundation, which reports on charitable contributions.

The overwhelming majority of this money was donated by individuals, not corporations or foundations, according to the chairman of Giving USA, Richard Jolly. Donations from individuals, including bequests, accounted for 83.3 percent of total giving last year, or $245.8 billion, he told USINFO...

In 2006, Americans donated 2.2 percent of their average disposable, or after-tax, income, a figure above the 40-year average of 1.8 percent. Brooks told USINFO that he sees over the past 50 years “a trend toward greater charitable giving” in the United States.

Jolly noted that 2005 was an “atypical” year because of the unusual number of major disasters, including the tsunamis in Asia, the earthquake in Pakistan, and hurricanes Katrina and Rita in the United States. Comparing nondisaster giving in 2006 with nondisaster giving in 2005, “what we see is growth, after adjusting for inflation, of about 3.2 percent, and that’s a significant level of growth,” Jolly said...

[pete311]

Actually I the average donations of citizens is well above $50 per year.

http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2007/June/200706261522251CJsamohT0.8012354.html

That is good. But what I am saying is would they donate another $50 to make up for the 8b lost from the gov backing down.

[Kathianne]

That is good. But what I am saying is would they donate another $50 to make up for the 8b lost from the gov backing down.

You really think folks are so ignorant they wouldn't realize if the government stopped 'gifting' they wouldn't pick up the slack?

OTOH, with the government deciding who and what is getting our bamo bucks, many are going to find they can't afford what they've been doing. It's starting to happen already.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. No this country is going straight down the toilet.
2. I mean straight down, don't bother flushing because the shear weight will flush itself.
3. The leaders of this nation are basically idiots, there is no other conclusion to come too.
4. Its the only conclusion any thinking man could come up with.
5. There is no elected leader innocent, none.
6. Govenment is a collective gathering of voted in peoples.
7. Every one of them is on the hook for the idiotic things that pass as governance.
8. From Bush, to Clinton, to Carter, to Obama, to all elected officials for the past 60 years.
9. If you can not see this, you are just as big of an idiot.
10. Things will not change, the people are way too dumb, sorry bout that.
11. Basically what it is and has been happening in America for over 60 plus years is this, *The Blind Leading The Blind*, and that will not change anytime soon.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[pete311]

James, not sure your rant has anything to do with the OP, but I generally agree with you. With that said plenty of people have lived fantastic lives in those 60 years, so why aren't you. You can be all drama and be a doomsayer or you can go live a decent life while you can. The time you spend in all this drama and hyperbole is such a waste.

[Binky]

and ben franklin would prolly shit himself too if he saw your fathers generation. it's been a slow progression ever since the declaration. change is inevitable, it's called life. you want a new pres every four years and think things will stay the same?




I expect change. Only a naive fool would think otherwise. But the change I don't expect is one where countless individuals spend every waking minute of the their day to try and find ways in which to bring America to her knees, so to speak......I don't think that's the change people were thinking about when the campaigning was going on......

It sounds a tad like you are happy the direction America is taking......

[pete311]

It sounds a tad like you are happy the direction America is taking......

I'm rather indifferent at the moment. I just think the doomsayers drama is a bit overreacting just like when people went nuts thinking obama was a savior during elections. Your daily life will be about the same. Go live it before it's too late.

[Jeff]

I'm rather indifferent at the moment. I just think the doomsayers drama is a bit overreacting just like when people went nuts thinking obama was a savior during elections. Your daily life will be about the same. Go live it before it's too late.

Pete for many Americans there daily lives have already changed, how many no longer have a job ?

I am a over the road trucker, a year or so ago our rate would be around $2. 40 a mile to run up the east coast, we are now down to $1.40 a mile in some case less

In the first quarter last year it was like 200 trucking companies folded ( I don't remember the exact #) Companies that boasted the highest pay per mile to the driver a year ago are now down to 23 cents a mile, Werner is down to 22 cents a mile, this all took place in the last year, J B hunt was calling me on a weekly basis offering me a job at 46 cents a mile, they are one down to 23 cents a mile, they had 1000"s of trucks on the road they now have a handful

You call it doomsayers drama , I call it reality , right here in the town I live in most of the plants well all of the plants we picked up at are now out of business again this is reality

My 21 year old son moved down here a few weeks ago, he has been fillings apps out everyday and hasn't gotten not one call, reality again

Instead of pushing this off as some having doomsayers drama we may want to open our eyes as a country and stop these lunatics in DC before there is nothing left to fix

[pete311]

Do you not remember 1979-83? That was a period where inflation and unemployment was double digits. We eventually recovered and then some. History is a chart of troughs and crests. The good things is that those troughs get higher each time. There is no doubt in my mind that the economy will recover and jobs will return.

[Jeff]

Do you not remember 1979-83? That was a period where inflation and unemployment was double digits. We eventually recovered and then some. History is a chart of troughs and crests. The good things is that those troughs get higher each time. There is no doubt in my mind that the economy will recover and jobs will return.


Honestly back in that era I was in HS still being a punk, so yes I do remember but vaguely, I sure hope you are right Pete, but I don't think we ever had a leader like we have now, NO where in our history have we had a leader that wishes to destroy the country he leads, and yes that is my opinion, and one that I will happily say I was wrong about , but I feel with in the next 3 years you will see this country sink so low that living in a 3rd world country would be a major step up

[pete311]

I feel with in the next 3 years you will see this country sink so low that living in a 3rd world country would be a major step up

We shall see. Best of luck to you and your son!

[Gaffer]

Do you not remember 1979-83? That was a period where inflation and unemployment was double digits. We eventually recovered and then some. History is a chart of troughs and crests. The good things is that those troughs get higher each time. There is no doubt in my mind that the economy will recover and jobs will return.

Do you also remember what cause that slump in 79 to 83. It was the carter years. The problem withe troughs and peaks is that the peaks get higher, but the troughs get deeper. The deeper the trough the harder it is to peak again.

The economy is going to take a very long time to recover from this bastard. It's going to take radical action to change things, not sit back and watch.

[pete311]

Look at this chart and tell me the troughs are getting deeper and no cherry picking 08 in relation to 02 because it's the same as 75 to 71.
http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html



The economy is going to take a very long time to recover from this bastard. It's going to take radical action to change things, not sit back and watch.

Please share with me how Obama directly affected the economic collapse which started two years ago. Perhaps he is not helping it, but certainly he is not to blame. We'd be in the same mess with McCain.

[Jeff]

Look at this chart and tell me the troughs are getting deeper and no cherry picking 08 in relation to 02 because it's the same as 75 to 71.
http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html



Please share with me how Obama directly affected the economic collapse which started two years ago. Perhaps he is not helping it, but certainly he is not to blame. We'd be in the same mess with McCain.

You may be right Pete I guess we will never know what McCain would of done, but we do know he showed his Birth Certificate, we do know his grades from school, and I am pretty sure he wouldn't of rammed his health care plan down our throats

And do you really think that stimulus of Obama's helped anything ? He is fixing the infrastructure :laugh2: Florida was asking for 180 billion for road repairs they received 18 million threw this wonderful stimulus, ( I am not sure if the #'s are exact I read that along time ago)

Pete time to face reality, Carter use to be the worst President we ever had :salute:

[pete311]

You may be right Pete I guess we will never know what McCain would of done, but we do know he showed his Birth Certificate, we do know his grades from school, and I am pretty sure he wouldn't of rammed his health care plan down our throats
Ok but these are all separate issues. I get that you don't like Obama. That is fine, that is your right.



And do you really think that stimulus of Obama's helped anything?

Pete time to face reality, Carter use to be the worst President we ever had :salute:

I haven't seen any data on his stimulus, but I am guessing it didn't do much. I wouldn't call myself an obama supporter, but I am willing to give him more time. He has faced some amazing challenges and I can't think of anyone who would realistically have done anything drastically different which would have worked for certain.

[Jeff]

Ok but these are all separate issues. I get that you don't like Obama. That is fine, that is your right.



I haven't seen any data on his stimulus, but I am guessing it didn't do much. I wouldn't call myself an obama supporter, but I am willing to give him more time. He has faced some amazing challenges and I can't think of anyone who would realistically have done anything drastically different which would have worked for certain.

Pete as he told the American people to tighten there belts he flew a guy in to make him pizza, ate 100 dollar steaks , took his wife on a date to the tune of $ 65,000 ,the only campaign promise he kept, how many vacations did he have the whole time he was telling us to tighten our belts ? This was the president of hope and change remember

Pete you sound like a very intelligent guy, do you really need data to see the messiah hasn't done a god damn thing but shove his health care down our throats ?

As for Data hopefully RSR will see this and he will post exactly where the stimulus went, ooo it helped some, just not the American People

And on top of all this hope and change we haven't seen he is spouting the rescission is over we are in the rebuilding stage, is this guy for f***ing real ?

Give him 3 more years and this country is Doomed

[HogTrash]

Certainly that is a problem. I am not smart enough to figure that situation out. I wish more people would take aid into their own hands. I am afraid most people don't do as much as they could. Again, I think we should not confuse the act of proper aid with the corruption and inefficiencies of our government.
You're "not smart enough to figure that situation out"???

You don't have to be a direct descendent of Albert Einstein to figure this out, Pete!

You simply stop doing whatever it is you're doing...You stop spending money you don't have.

You tighten the budget by eliminating all government programs except for the bare necessities.

Yes, that includes all foreign aid that does not directly benefit the economy or security of the United States.

We should lower taxes and allow people to expand and grow the economy by investing in America and creating jobs.

The best thing we could do is dig a big hole and bury all the liberals alive, but sadly we lack support from the Christian right.

[pete311]

You're "not smart enough to figure that situation out"???

You don't have to be a direct descendent of Albert Einstein to figure this out, Pete!

You simply stop doing whatever it is you're doing...You stop spending money you don't have.

You tighten the budget by eliminating all government programs except for the bare necessities.

Yes, that includes all foreign aid that does not directly benefit the economy or security of the United States.

We should lower taxes and allow people to expand and grow the economy by investing in America and creating jobs.

The best thing we could do is dig a big hole and bury all the liberals alive, but sadly we lack support from the Christian right.

If you are under the impression that any republican in office will offer you any of these things you are delusional. The difference between repub and demo in office is smaller than you think. None of the repubs ouside Ron Paul will offer you anything close to what you want. And Ron Paul is little to no chance of ever being pres.

[HogTrash]

If you are under the impression that any republican in office will offer you any of these things you are delusional. The difference between repub and demo in office is smaller than you think. None of the repubs ouside Ron Paul will offer you anything close to what you want. And Ron Paul is little to no chance of ever being pres.Who said I was a republican?...I'm not a republican...I'm a libertarian conservative.

I am now and always have been a life-long registered Independent voter.

The big government/big spending politics of the Republican Party has been more in line with your views than mine.

I vote for candidates who promise to promote a small constitutionally bound government and against any who don't deliver.

The govenments jobs are;

Uphold, protect and defend the Constitution from all threats, foreign and domestric.

Maintain whatever is necessary to protect and defend our nation.

Print money.[by a strict 'gold and silver standard']

Deliver the mail.[what a joke]

{By the way, I am a very big fan of Ron Paul}