Christian Militia Group Targeted in FBI Raids

[HogTrash]

Who the hell does the US government think they are?

All Americans should be disgusted and thoroughly outraged.

No doubt, the feds will claim they're protecting the American people.

But actually, these thugs are in fear for their own safety and securing power.

ADRIAN, Mich. -- A Christian militia group was a target of at least one of a series of weekend raids the FBI conducted in Indiana, Michigan and Ohio, a Michigan militia leader says.

The FBI said Sunday that it had conducted raids in the three states, resulting in at least three arrests. Federal warrants were sealed, but a federal law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity said some of those arrested face gun charges and officials are pursuing other suspects. Some of the suspects were expected in court Monday.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/28/arrests-alleged-militia-activity-midwest/The government that is suppose to work for us, has instead turned on us like a rabid dog.

:tank:

[Noir]

Why exactly are you outraged? If there is reason for there arrest then they should be arrested, then it is up to the justice system to decide their guilt.

[LiberalNation]

Guns and pipe bombs, that's what always gets them.

[namvet]

if their after Osama i support em 110% ill even send $$$$

[Noir]

if their after Osama i support em 110% ill even send $$$$

I would like to think of this as a dry joke, but I fear it's not =/

[namvet]

I would like to think of this as a dry joke, but I fear it's not =/

you promised not to comment anymore on my posts. so fuck off !!!!

[LiberalNation]

want the SS to come knockin at your door eh vet.

[Noir]

you promised not to comment anymore on my posts. so fuck off !!!!

Chill the bap mate,

That was about the other thread, not to every thread.

Now, back on topic ^_^

[namvet]

want the SS to come knockin at your door eh vet.

you mean Osama's SS ????

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/holoprelude/images/Hitler%20views%20the%20SS.jpg

[namvet]

Chill the bap mate,

That was about the other thread, not to every thread.

Now, back on topic ^_^

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[OldMercsRule]

Looks like a propaganda victory for anti Christians. Not good at all.

Timothy McVeigh is the name anti Christian Liberals and media elitists use to prove Christians are just as militant as Muslims, now they have more propaganda for the incessant bashing.

Indictment: Militia members sought to 'levy war' against U.S.
Paul Egan / The Detroit News
Detroit -- Nine members of a Lenawee County-based militia group were planning to "levy war" against the United States and "oppose by force" the nation's government, according to an indictment released this morning in U.S. District Court in Detroit.

The five-count indictment was unsealed this morning and alleges that between August 2008 and the present, the defendants were attempting to use bombs and other weapons to oppose the U.S. government.

The eight men and one woman are members of the "Hutaree," identified as an "anti-government extremist organization" in the indictment, and each faces three to five charges, including sedition, attempts to use weapons of mass destruction, teaching/demonstrating use of explosive materials and two counts of carrying weapons in relation to a crime of violence.

The Adrian-based group says it is training in modern combat techniques for a prophesized battle with the anti-Christ.

From The Detroit News: http://detroitnews.com/article/20100329/METRO/3290381/Indictment--Militia-members-sought-to--levy-war--against-U.S.#ixzz0jZuxLqjU

I as a Christian denounce their activities and in no way am I associating with these freaks. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Embarrassing.

[HogTrash]

Looks like a propaganda victory for anti Christians. Not good at all.

Timothy McVeigh is the name anti Christian Liberals and media elitists use to prove Christians are just as militant as Muslims, now they have more propaganda for the incessant bashing.

Indictment: Militia members sought to 'levy war' against U.S.
Paul Egan / The Detroit News
Detroit -- Nine members of a Lenawee County-based militia group were planning to "levy war" against the United States and "oppose by force" the nation's government, according to an indictment released this morning in U.S. District Court in Detroit.

The five-count indictment was unsealed this morning and alleges that between August 2008 and the present, the defendants were attempting to use bombs and other weapons to oppose the U.S. government.

The eight men and one woman are members of the "Hutaree," identified as an "anti-government extremist organization" in the indictment, and each faces three to five charges, including sedition, attempts to use weapons of mass destruction, teaching/demonstrating use of explosive materials and two counts of carrying weapons in relation to a crime of violence.

The Adrian-based group says it is training in modern combat techniques for a prophesized battle with the anti-Christ.

From The Detroit News: http://detroitnews.com/article/20100329/METRO/3290381/Indictment--Militia-members-sought-to--levy-war--against-U.S.#ixzz0jZuxLqjU

I as a Christian denounce their activities and in no way am I associating with these freaks. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Embarrassing.Most militia groups organize because they simply don't trust government...But lets be honest, the government nolonger trusts the people.

But generally they arm themselves and train for defensive reasons in the event of government hostilities against American citizens.

I don't trust government to tell us the truth when things like this happen and I tend to give the people the benefit of the doubt.

Most Americans are a much better class of people than the liars we elect to government office and hire into federal law enforcement agencies.

Chicken or egg?...Oklahoma City or Waco?...If we're going to police one, we should police the other equally...Personally, I know where the blame lies.

[revelarts]

those militia guys may be a bit over top with it but,

Innocent until proven guilty is what i say.

It's not like innocent people haven't been accused before.

Randy Weaver's wife and kids are dead because the gov't thought he was too dangerous after they got an informant to trick Weaver into selling him a sawed off shot gun.

Still to early to tell what's going on here.

[OldMercsRule]

Most militia groups organize because they simply don't trust government...But lets be honest, the government nolonger trusts the people.

Not a member of any militia group nor do I plan to be.


But generally they arm themselves and train for defensive reasons in the event of government hostilities against American citizens.

That is not what the media is saying in this particular case. There is a Federal indicment of these people. Doubt that is jus hot air, and I'm not a mind reader. That said: I will follow the story, as I lack the time and resources to take the initiative to do my own on site investigation.


I don't trust government to tell us the truth when things like this happen and I tend to give the people the benefit of the doubt.

I guess we differ. An existing Federal indiciment leads me to doubt the perps.


Most Americans are a much better class of people than the liars we elect to government office and hire into federal law enforcement agencies.

People are people. Pols and Federal law enforcement are all Americans some good some bad. I can't read people's minds myself. These perps look to be trouble to me based on multiple accounts. We shall have to see how this plays out and let due process work. At least they survived to tell their story unlike Waco or some at Ruby Ridge.


Chicken or egg?...Oklahoma City or Waco?...If we're going to police one, we should police the other equally...Personally, I know where the blame lies.

I lack your claimed knowledge of these matters, so I guess we will have to disagree.

[bullypulpit]

Awww Hawg...An here I thought you were gonna give up huffin'. Now ya gone down to the hardware store got a can of spray paint and a paper bag an had yerself a good ol' time.

Now which is he...? Obama, I mean. Is he a Nazi or a Communist? Or is he a Muslim radical bent on making all men grow beards and all women to wear burqas? Or is he just whatever is the most convenient tag you and your fellow travelers decide to hang on him at the moment?

[bullypulpit]

And let's not forget this gem, requested by the Bush administration:

<center><a href=http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf>Rightwing Extremism:Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment</a></center>

[bullypulpit]

Oh...and just so you can see just how bat-shit crazy these people are...

<center><a href=http://www.hutaree.com/index.html>HUTAREE.COM</a></center>

They were fine goin' out and playin' soldier. But they crossed the line in threatening the lives of police officers. Or has the right wing abandoned even its pretense of being "tough on crime"?

[Noir]

Have just seen A brief news clip saying they were arrested after as the FBI believe they were conspiring to murder a police officer and then planned to ambush the funeral,

I don't see where the whole Christian bit comes into that, but I guess that will come out with time.

[OldMercsRule]

Have just seen A brief news clip saying they were arrested after as the FBI believe they were conspiring to murder a police officer and then planned to ambush the funeral,

I don't see where the whole Christian bit comes into that, but I guess that will come out with time.

Look at the whackjob's web site in the prior post.

[Noir]

Look at the whackjob's web site in the prior post.

Dear blesses =/

are you still standing by these guys Hog?

[HogTrash]

those militia guys may be a bit over top with it but,

Innocent until proven guilty is what i say.

It's not like innocent people haven't been accused before.

Randy Weaver's wife and kids are dead because the gov't thought he was too dangerous after they got an informant to trick Weaver into selling him a sawed off shot gun.

Still to early to tell what's going on here.
Not a member of any militia group nor do I plan to be.



That is not what the media is saying in this particular case. There is a Federal indicment of these people. Doubt that is jus hot air, and I'm not a mind reader. That said: I will follow the story, as I lack the time and resources to take the initiative to do my own on site investigation.



I guess we differ. An existing Federal indiciment leads me to doubt the perps.



People are people. Pols and Federal law enforcement are all Americans some good some bad. I can't read people's minds myself. These perps look to be trouble to me based on multiple accounts. We shall have to see how this plays out and let due process work. At least they survived to tell their story unlike Waco or some at Ruby Ridge.



I lack your claimed knowledge of these matters, so I guess we will have to disagree.I have found that in cases like this we are wise to not only believe but also side with citizens over government,

mainly because government still justifies Ruby Ridge and Waco and the main stream media still backs them for the most part.

Government and their armed federal agents are much more likely to be a threat than the average American citizen...Anyone who isn't aware of this has been living under a rock.

[Kathianne]

I'm just wondering if any big DC firms will be providing pro bono attorneys for these accused 'terrorists?' Seems those at Gitmo hadn't problems getting plenty of help.

[HogTrash]

I'm just wondering if any big DC firms will be providing pro bono attorneys for these accused 'terrorists?' Seems those at Gitmo hadn't problems getting plenty of help.It certainly won't be the American Civil Liberties Union or the Southern Poverty Law Center...These people are much too white and much too American.

[Cap'n Chew]

Awww Hawg...An here I thought you were gonna give up huffin'. Now ya gone down to the hardware store got a can of spray paint and a paper bag an had yerself a good ol' time.

Now which is he...? Obama, I mean. Is he a Nazi or a Communist? Or is he a Muslim radical bent on making all men grow beards and all women to wear burqas? Or is he just whatever is the most convenient tag you and your fellow travelers decide to hang on him at the moment?

Well if he's a Nazi, he's not doing a good job. We're way too damn free under the Obama Administration for this to be a fascist country. We still have our guns, our privacy, and our speech, nothing changed between now and the end of the Bush Admin. except now you can carry guns into national parks.

if he's a communist, he's not doing a good job. We're way too capitalistic at this point and not really going down the path towards communism. (Thank God for that lol.) His major health reform legislation will serve to strengthen and not diminish the insurance industry with 30 million new customers.

If he's a radical Muslim, he's not doing a good job. We have more troops in Afghanistan, and more ground attacks and drone strikes against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, the folks who happen to be the extremist islamic terrorists we are at war against.

[Kathianne]

It certainly won't be the American Civil Liberties Union or the Southern Poverty Law Center...These people are much too white and much too American.

Well it seems you didn't understand the implication to the Department of Justice. You cannot see what you are willingly blind to.

[Cap'n Chew]

Have just seen A brief news clip saying they were arrested after as the FBI believe they were conspiring to murder a police officer and then planned to ambush the funeral,

I don't see where the whole Christian bit comes into that, but I guess that will come out with time.

Killing cops? Killing people at funerals? That's in the Bible, just in invisible ink that only can be viewed by crazy nutcases. :cool:

i know this is going to look bad for militia groups, but they aren't all like this. They're not plotting to kill local law enforcement in the name of religion or some sort of anti-government kick, most of them love this country and are there just to be on guard in case the unthinkable happens and the federal government cannot be there to help. God bless the American militias, and God help the crazy ones out there.

:salute:

[OldMercsRule]

I have found that in cases like this we are wise to not only believe but also side with citizens over government,

Not "cases like this": HogT.

Olbermann and Maddow did just what I thought they would do last night and had guests that used this issue to prove that Big Sis, (Napolitano), was correct in changing terrorism focus at Homeland security from Islam to Christian US citizens and returning military service people as a report from her department stated in early 2009.

Remember this?

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Wednesday that she was briefed before the release of a controversial intelligence assessment and that she stands by the report, which lists returning veterans among terrorist risks to the U.S.

But the top House Democrat with oversight of the Department of Homeland Security said in a letter to Ms. Napolitano that he was "dumbfounded" that such a report would be issued.

"This report appears to raise significant issues involving the privacy and civil liberties of many Americans - including war veterans," said Rep. Bennie Thompson of Mississippi, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, in his letter sent Tuesday night.

The letter was representative of a public furor over the nine-page document since its existence was reported in The Washington Times on Tuesday.

In her statement Wednesday, Ms. Napolitano defended the report, which says "rightwing extremism" may include groups opposed to abortion and immigration, as merely one among several threat assessments. But she agreed to meet with the head of the American Legion, who had expressed anger over the report, when she returns to Washington next week from a tour of the U.S.-Mexico border.

RELATED STORIES:
• Federal agency warns of radicals on right
• Legion objects to vets as terror risk
• Obama promises new beginning ahead of trip

"The document on right-wing extremism sent last week by this department's Office of Intelligence and Analysis is one in an ongoing series of assessments to provide situational awareness to state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies on the phenomenon and trends of violent radicalization in the United States," Ms. Napolitano said in her statement.

"I was briefed on the general topic, which is one that struck a nerve as someone personally involved in the Timothy McVeigh prosecution," Ms. Napolitano said.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/16/napolitano-stands-rightwing-extremism/

Now the Liberals, dim wit Democrats and main stream media elites have this issue, (that sure looks to be legitimate to me), that can be hyped, where before this, they had to go back 15 years for an examples of so called "Christian" terrorism by the non religious Tim McVeigh, where his Catholic faith as a child was a big rally point for BJ Clinton and his crew against talk radio et al.

The made up spitting and racial epithets at Black pols horse poop claimed in the Tea Party rally against health care in DC, (where no cornfirming videos have surfaced), is now combined into one big anti cornservative anti tea party montra where the Liberals claim racism and violence by cornnecting those pesky dots.

They are using Palin's graphics, (cross hairs), and terms as part of the anti tea party montra as well.

This is a huge gift, and giving these militia freaks anything more then the presumption of innocence during the due process that will follow is a huge mistake, IMHO.

The timing of the incident is perfect for the crew of Chicago thugs now running things, (they have been working on this for a while and the web site makes the case easy for the Feds to both find and persue), and condemnation by the Right is the only way to lessen the impact it still likely will have for those who still drink Liberal cool aid. The hard Left now has an actual well timed current event to hype.

Standing with these fools would be a fatal mistake to the Cornservative cause at a time we need to keep up the non violent non racist political pressure to win in November.


mainly because government still justifies Ruby Ridge and Waco and the main stream media still backs them for the most part.

It is a huge mistake to back these freaks: HogT.

Look at their web site.

They are obviously not Randy Weaver in any way shape or form.


Government and their armed federal agents are much more likely to be a threat than the average American citizen...Anyone who isn't aware of this has been living under a rock.

Could be, butt: not now and not in this particular case. Let's make sure they get a fair trial.

[Kathianne]

Killing cops? Killing people at funerals? That's in the Bible, just in invisible ink that only can be viewed by crazy nutcases. :cool:

i know this is going to look bad for militia groups, but they aren't all like this. They're not plotting to kill local law enforcement in the name of religion or some sort of anti-government kick, most of them love this country and are there just to be on guard in case the unthinkable happens and the federal government cannot be there to help. God bless the American militias, and God help the crazy ones out there.

:salute:

Most militia groups I've read about are not looking to 'help out' with security if the fed can't, rather are formed to protect themselves from what they see as a Federal threat. Until recently I thought they were all crazy conspiracists, just like this groups APPEARS to have aspired to. However, the idea that the government does want to 'take over'? Not as crazy as it used to sound. Still wouldn't justify targeting any official, but I'm no longer fearless about the reach or desire of the Fed to consume.

[Cap'n Chew]

Most militia groups I've read about are not looking to 'help out' with security if the fed can't, rather are formed to protect themselves from what they see as a Federal threat. Until recently I thought they were all crazy conspiracists, just like this groups APPEARS to have aspired to. However, the idea that the government does want to 'take over'? Not as crazy as it used to sound. Still wouldn't justify targeting any official, but I'm no longer fearless about the reach or desire of the Fed to consume.

To be fair, most of the militia groups that get mentioned are the ones going off their collective rockers. The ones with sanity aren't getting the headlines.

The idea that the government actively wants to "take over" is but paranoid fantasy for now. President Obama and the Democrats in Congress haven't the desire, the spine, or the stupidity needed for a real giant federal power grab. Their health care bill despite the rhetoric out there, is pretty damn moderate and pro-insurance industry. If you were to comb over the the 1994 GOP alternative to the Clinton's reform bill and Romney's MA UHC program, they are both pretty similar to what is law today.

Perhaps in the next generation it may be possible, who knows what may happen down the road. But now, nah. I wouldn't worry about that.

[Kathianne]

To be fair, most of the militia groups that get mentioned are the ones going off their collective rockers. The ones with sanity aren't getting the headlines.

The idea that the government actively wants to "take over" is but paranoid fantasy for now. President Obama and the Democrats in Congress haven't the desire, the spine, or the stupidity needed for a real giant federal power grab. Their health care bill despite the rhetoric out there, is pretty damn moderate and pro-insurance industry. If you were to comb over the the 1994 GOP alternative to the Clinton's reform bill and Romney's MA UHC program, they are both pretty similar to what is law today.

Perhaps in the next generation it may be possible, who knows what may happen down the road. But now, nah. I wouldn't worry about that.

Respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the bill and of the administration.

[Gaffer]

To be fair, most of the militia groups that get mentioned are the ones going off their collective rockers. The ones with sanity aren't getting the headlines.

The idea that the government actively wants to "take over" is but paranoid fantasy for now. President Obama and the Democrats in Congress haven't the desire, the spine, or the stupidity needed for a real giant federal power grab. Their health care bill despite the rhetoric out there, is pretty damn moderate and pro-insurance industry. If you were to comb over the the 1994 GOP alternative to the Clinton's reform bill and Romney's MA UHC program, they are both pretty similar to what is law today.

Perhaps in the next generation it may be possible, who knows what may happen down the road. But now, nah. I wouldn't worry about that.

Ahhh the calm voice of condensation. A pat on the head and assurance that nothing bad is going to happen. There is no boogy man. The government will protect you and is not trying to take over your life. Sit back and be calm. Look at the past failed health care bills and see that they are the same thing we have today, except the new one is 2500 pages longer, but don't worry. The government moves in secrecy for your best interests.

The war is coming a lot sooner than you think mr chew. The dark lord and his commies in congress are going to push this country into war. Which is what they want. They won't let a good crisis go to waste.

All militias are a threat to the government because they do not fall under the rules of the government. They operate independently of it and are not funded by it. I expect there will be more such "raids" conducted by the feds in the coming months and the media will play up every one of them. After all they want to weaken and demoralize as much of the population as they can before they step up their operations. Just a little something to cap'n chew on.

[BoogyMan]

There is no boogy man.

This is totally off-topic, but DUDE!!! I exist. :)

[Missileman]

His major health reform legislation will serve to strengthen and not diminish the insurance industry with 30 million new customers.
.

The legislation is a death sentence for the health insurance agencies, and everyone but you apparently knows it, including Obama who declared it is the first step toward universal, AKA single-payer, health care in a speech shortly after its passage.

If the feds had been demonstrating an ability to be fiscally responsible, this might not be a totally-terrible thing. However, in light of their spending spree, I'm afraid...no, I'm certain that when they get total control over 6% of our economy and that money starts getting funneled through DC, the last thing it'll get spent on is health care.

[revelarts]

Old Merc you make some good points about the left using these guys as poster children for all of the tea party and the republican right in general.
But the right does it as well, can you say "Acorn", used as a poster child against the left.

one way to look at this is more party politics to keep the left and right whipped up against each other again while the politicians and monopoly men invent ways to protect us from the "militia" or "acorn" or rob us blind with bail outs and as a nice side effect for them, keep local communities from organizing. Keep the public left and right from trusting its neighbors, but on the contrary trusting the good ol federal gov't.

I don't want to stand with these guys but i would like to see justice done evenly and across the board from time to time. Throwing these guys to the political dogs for future republican political advancement is the type of thing that has turned me off to the major parties. they are moe concerned about power and position than about doing what right. What's politically expedient "collateral damage o well. that the price we have to pay for ____ . Do you want the democrats to win?"
If the republican party would have done what's right more often over the past 30 years you wouldn't have guys running around in the woods in fatigues.


I say it's still to early to tell what is going on. the gov't has had a chance to smear and make the guys look bad as possibly. Last time i checked it's still legal to be over the top with your religion and guns and have an ex-wife that doesn't like you. As long your not hurting anyone, which they have not. Frankly I'm waiting to hear exactly how the feds knew about this alleged plot.

Innocent until proven guilty.

[Gaffer]

This is totally off-topic, but DUDE!!! I exist. :)

I thought of you as I typed it. But didn't want to interrupt my rant. I did, however, differentiate with boogy man not BoogyMan. So you exist. :poke:

[HogTrash]

Not "cases like this": HogT.

Olbermann and Maddow did just what I thought they would do last night and had guests that used this issue to prove that Big Sis, (Napolitano), was correct in changing terrorism focus at Homeland security from Islam to Christian US citizens and returning military service people as a report from her department stated in early 2009.

Remember this?

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Wednesday that she was briefed before the release of a controversial intelligence assessment and that she stands by the report, which lists returning veterans among terrorist risks to the U.S.

But the top House Democrat with oversight of the Department of Homeland Security said in a letter to Ms. Napolitano that he was "dumbfounded" that such a report would be issued.

"This report appears to raise significant issues involving the privacy and civil liberties of many Americans - including war veterans," said Rep. Bennie Thompson of Mississippi, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, in his letter sent Tuesday night.

The letter was representative of a public furor over the nine-page document since its existence was reported in The Washington Times on Tuesday.

In her statement Wednesday, Ms. Napolitano defended the report, which says "rightwing extremism" may include groups opposed to abortion and immigration, as merely one among several threat assessments. But she agreed to meet with the head of the American Legion, who had expressed anger over the report, when she returns to Washington next week from a tour of the U.S.-Mexico border.

RELATED STORIES:
• Federal agency warns of radicals on right
• Legion objects to vets as terror risk
• Obama promises new beginning ahead of trip

"The document on right-wing extremism sent last week by this department's Office of Intelligence and Analysis is one in an ongoing series of assessments to provide situational awareness to state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies on the phenomenon and trends of violent radicalization in the United States," Ms. Napolitano said in her statement.

"I was briefed on the general topic, which is one that struck a nerve as someone personally involved in the Timothy McVeigh prosecution," Ms. Napolitano said.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/16/napolitano-stands-rightwing-extremism/

Now the Liberals, dim wit Democrats and main stream media elites have this issue, (that sure looks to be legitimate to me), that can be hyped, where before this, they had to go back 15 years for an examples of so called "Christian" terrorism by the non religious Tim McVeigh, where his Catholic faith as a child was a big rally point for BJ Clinton and his crew against talk radio et al.

The made up spitting and racial epithets at Black pols horse poop claimed in the Tea Party rally against health care in DC, (where no cornfirming videos have surfaced), is now combined into one big anti cornservative anti tea party montra where the Liberals claim racism and violence by cornnecting those pesky dots.

They are using Palin's graphics, (cross hairs), and terms as part of the anti tea party montra as well.

This is a huge gift, and giving these militia freaks anything more then the presumption of innocence during the due process that will follow is a huge mistake, IMHO.

The timing of the incident is perfect for the crew of Chicago thugs now running things, (they have been working on this for a while and the web site makes the case easy for the Feds to both find and persue), and condemnation by the Right is the only way to lessen the impact it still likely will have for those who still drink Liberal cool aid. The hard Left now has an actual well timed current event to hype.

Standing with these fools would be a fatal mistake to the Cornservative cause at a time we need to keep up the non violent non racist political pressure to win in November.



It is a huge mistake to back these freaks: HogT.

Look at their web site.

They are obviously not Randy Weaver in any way shape or form.



Could be, butt: not now and not in this particular case. Let's make sure they get a fair trial.A 'just in the nick of time lucky coincidence' or a 'well planned political strategy?

What great timing for the Obama administration...Those right wing extremist Tea Baggers are making all that trouble for the democrats this close to a mid-term election and threatening the lefts power structure.

Hmmm?...It wasn't all that long ago that Nepolitano was declaring US veterans and other patriotic groups as possible domestic right wing terrorist threats and damn if this didn't just fall right into Homeland Securities lap.

Do you really believe the government would not take a minor situation and twist it to be something much more serious to gain public support for a war on their enemies under the guise of domestic right wing terrorism?

Statistical, people in groups like these are usually folks who are patrotic Americans that support the military and their local police and only take issue with the federal government and federal law enforcement agencies.

Planning to murder police officers at a funeral for the purpose of starting a war just doesn't ring true and in fact sounds about as far fetched as a government story can get...I smell a rat and I'm surprised nobody else does.

I will trust the people untill the government produces iron clad indisputable evidence of their guilt, but more important, I'm curious to see how the government uses this to expand their power and deprive us of our rights.

[Gaffer]

A 'just in the nick of time lucky coincidence' or a 'well planned political strategy?

What great timing for the Obama administration...Those right wing extremist Tea Baggers are making all that trouble for the democrats this close to a mid-term election and threatening the lefts power structure.

Hmmm?...It wasn't all that long ago that Nepolitano was declaring US veterans and other patriotic groups as possible domestic right wing terrorist threats and damn if this didn't just fall right into Homeland Securities lap.

Do you really believe the government would not take a minor situation and twist it to be something much more serious to gain public support for a war on their enemies under the guise of domestic right wing terrorism?

Statistical, people in groups like these are usually folks who are patrotic Americans that support the military and their local police and only take issue with the federal government and federal law enforcement agencies.

Planning to murder police officers at a funeral for the purpose of starting a war just doesn't ring true and in fact sounds about as far fetched as a government story can get...I smell a rat and I'm surprised nobody else does.

I will trust the people untill the government produces iron clad indisputable evidence of their guilt, but more important, I'm curious to see how the government uses this to expand their power and deprive us of our rights.

I agree with you. While this guy and his followers appear to be religious nuts I have to wonder about what is being reported. And I expect to see more such raids and arrests in the future just to support the governments case. And guys like this don't go after the local police. They would go after government agents.

There was a time I would have just accepted what was reported in the news. That is not the case for me any more.The news in run by the government so I don't just accept what they report anymore. Lie to me once and I will never fully believe you ever again.

[bullypulpit]

Granted, throwing bricks through a few windows isn't as bad as burning down down a ROTC office. But then the Obama administration hasn't broken up tea-bagger rallies with the National Guard, tear-gas and bullets either.

The problem arises when right wingers try to make some sort of moral equivalence between the protesters of the 60's and 70's and the tea-baggers and, yes, the militia movement. 'Cause, ya see, the context escapes them. And context will bend the right wing's sorry assed rhetorical point over its knee and beat it until it begs context to stop.

So let's get in the "Way-Back Machine" and look back to that era. The government was sending America's youth off to die in what, long ago, was recognized as a pointless war launched on a foundation of lies. US troops were invading Cambodia and radical organizations, especially civil rights organizations were being quashed by the FBI. The violence was being carried out by those most directly affected by these policies...college age, or older males. Who, under the draft could be scooped up, sent over-seas and forced to kill people on the pretense of national defense. Refusal to comply would result in prison time or self-imposed exile.

So how should citizens react to that? How would they react if there was a draft now? The violence wasn't justified, but at least it was in reaction to violent actions being taken by the government...It was, literally, about matters of life and death.

Now, what are today's violent protesters so inflamed over? A plan to make sure people with pre-existing conditions can get health insurance? That everyone can actually HAVE health care coverage and those who can't afford it get a subsidy? REALLY? Tell ya what, if this health care reform bill, now law, kills anyone a few years down the road, THEN you can throw some bricks. Until then wheel you sorry asses home...STFU...And stop being such a pack of easily manipulated gits. And while yer at it, talk to some one who was at Kent State before you go hoppin' on the fascism band-wagon.

[HogTrash]

Granted, throwing bricks through a few windows isn't as bad as burning down down a ROTC office. But then the Obama administration hasn't broken up tea-bagger rallies with the National Guard, tear-gas and bullets either.Not yet he hasn't, but don't give up hope, Bully...


The problem arises when right wingers try to make some sort of moral equivalence between the protesters of the 60's and 70's and the tea-baggers and, yes, the militia movement. 'Cause, ya see, the context escapes them. And context will bend the right wing's sorry assed rhetorical point over its knee and beat it until it begs context to stop.

So let's get in the "Way-Back Machine" and look back to that era. The government was sending America's youth off to die in what, long ago, was recognized as a pointless war launched on a foundation of lies. US troops were invading Cambodia and radical organizations, especially civil rights organizations were being quashed by the FBI. The violence was being carried out by those most directly affected by these policies...college age, or older males. Who, under the draft could be scooped up, sent over-seas and forced to kill people on the pretense of national defense. Refusal to comply would result in prison time or self-imposed exile.

So how should citizens react to that? How would they react if there was a draft now? The violence wasn't justified, but at least it was in reaction to violent actions being taken by the government...It was, literally, about matters of life and death.

Now, what are today's violent protesters so inflamed over? A plan to make sure people with pre-existing conditions can get health insurance? That everyone can actually HAVE health care coverage and those who can't afford it get a subsidy? REALLY? Tell ya what, if this health care reform bill, now law, kills anyone a few years down the road, THEN you can throw some bricks. Until then wheel you sorry asses home...STFU...And stop being such a pack of easily manipulated gits. And while yer at it, talk to some one who was at Kent State before you go hoppin' on the fascism band-wagon.Now let's climb back into the "Way-Back Machine" and return to the present day.

We now find that marxist Bill Ayers, who blew up government buildings way back then, is now teaching in a major university and a friend and hero to people like President Barack Hussein Obama.

[Monkeybone]

Now, what are today's violent protesters so inflamed over? A plan to make sure people with pre-existing conditions can get health insurance? That everyone can actually HAVE health care coverage and those who can't afford it get a subsidy? REALLY? Tell ya what, if this health care reform bill, now law, kills anyone a few years down the road, THEN you can throw some bricks. Until then wheel you sorry asses home...STFU...And stop being such a pack of easily manipulated gits. And while yer at it, talk to some one who was at Kent State before you go hoppin' on the fascism band-wagon. you keep throwing this out like a fix all. No one that i know is mad about that. everyone wanted that... that is part of the magic word reform.. what People, us 'gits', are upset about is how much was thrown into, a majority wasn't written by our own lawmaker, and no one knows what is in it exactly. That is what upsets us. That you have to "Pass it to find out what's in it" is not the mentality that our elected officials should be taking.

[HogTrash]

Originally Posted by bullypulpit
Now, what are today's violent protesters so inflamed over? A plan to make sure people with pre-existing conditions can get health insurance? That everyone can actually HAVE health care coverage and those who can't afford it get a subsidy? REALLY? Tell ya what, if this health care reform bill, now law, kills anyone a few years down the road, THEN you can throw some bricks. Until then wheel you sorry asses home...STFU...And stop being such a pack of easily manipulated gits. And while yer at it, talk to some one who was at Kent State before you go hoppin' on the fascism band-wagon.I'm not seeing "violent protesters" over healthcare reform...Did I miss something? :confused:

I admittedly have seen people who were upset over the Obama healthcare plan, but no "violent protesters"?

Big difference in "violent" and "upset"...Do you have a link?...I would like to see an example of "violent protesters" if you don't mind?

[Kathianne]

I'm not seeing "violent protesters" over healthcare reform...Did I miss something? :confused:

I admittedly have seen people who were upset over the Obama healthcare plan, but no "violent protesters"?

Big difference in "violent" and "upset"...Do you have a link?...I would like to see an example of "violent protesters" if you don't mind?

Nice, reasonable, thought out questions and observations. Good for you.

[Gaffer]

Bullies little time machine took him back to a made up history that only true blue commies and liberals can see. You really shouldn't try to rewrite history when those that lived it are still around.

I refuse to sit down and shut up. You do need to remember who the liars were that escalated Vietnam and the draft. It was the democrats. Don't make shit up to prove your point and act superior when you weren't even there.

[HogTrash]

Nice, reasonable, thought out questions and observations. Good for you.I give as much effort to all my subjects...Unless I'm being silly of course.

You just don't see it on those you dissagree with...Selective judgement.

[Kathianne]

I give as much effort to all my subjects...Unless I'm being silly of course.

You just don't see it on those you dissagree with...Selective judgement.

No, that isn't the case, IMO. When you fail to distinguish between opinion and facts, you fail.

[LiberalNation]

they sure didn't do much fighting back considering they wanted to fight the US government. Lame.

[Abbey Marie]

Killing cops? Killing people at funerals? That's in the Bible, just in invisible ink that only can be viewed by crazy nutcases. :cool:

i know this is going to look bad for militia groups, but they aren't all like this. They're not plotting to kill local law enforcement in the name of religion or some sort of anti-government kick, most of them love this country and are there just to be on guard in case the unthinkable happens and the federal government cannot be there to help. God bless the American militias, and God help the crazy ones out there.

:salute:

Very reasonable post. :salute:

[OldMercsRule]

A 'just in the nick of time lucky coincidence' or a 'well planned political strategy?

What great timing for the Obama administration...Those right wing extremist Tea Baggers are making all that trouble for the democrats this close to a mid-term election and threatening the lefts power structure.

Hmmm?...It wasn't all that long ago that Nepolitano was declaring US veterans and other patriotic groups as possible domestic right wing terrorist threats and damn if this didn't just fall right into Homeland Securities lap.

Do you really believe the government would not take a minor situation

In a huge Country of 300 plus Million people, this type of situation does arrise from time to time. How could it not? I personally don't think it is "minor" when it shifts from defensive to planned killing of others (as alleged here).

The "Aryan Nation" of the 1970s is an example of some cracked stuff that was out here on the Left Coast and in Idaho.

In a huge Country that is 85% + or - Christian; whackos will exist. Sometimes they will organize as these freaks likely did.

The memo released by Big Sis in 2009 shows that Big Gubment did have that point of view and other memos about focusing on monitering the internet makes fools like these freaks vulnerable. Hard to know how many others will cum out between now and November 2010.

If this works to keep the Left in corntrol of Congress look for more in mid 2012.

Truly dangerous and aggressive whack jobs would not be so totally stooopid, (IMHO). That is why Christian terrorism is fairly rare, or we would see it all the time.

Do ya wonder why Big Sis leaves their web site up????? I was born at night just: not last night.

I bet they will have overwhelming evidence at trial as they had an insider in the group, (I understand from the media).

Chicago politics is played this way on lots of issues.

These freaks will make a great poster child for MSNBC (and already have). If the hard Left media can pound this story from now to November and connect dots to Palin's choice of graphics and language, some kool aid drinkers are bound to be influenced.

The montra to expect:
Christians are bad, guns are bad, these guys are supported by the Right wing, (which they are not as most are deeply embarrased).

They needed an issue to offset the underware bomber and they have it.


and twist it to be something much more serious to gain public support for a war on their enemies under the guise of domestic right wing terrorism?

Statistical, people in groups like these are usually folks who are patrotic Americans that support the military and their local police and only take issue with the federal government and federal law enforcement agencies.

Nope: These particular (not "statistical", [what ever that means]) people are stupid as boxes of rocks and aren't patriotic at all.

The exact opposite.

I don't think most people from the right (even those who join militias), "take issue with the Federal Gubment or Federal Law enforcement" by arming themselves and planning violence against fellow Americans.

Those that do not care for the path of Gubment and are patriots vote out people they don't want in power, or sue Federal Law enforcement who overstep their authority, not take up arms and plan actions with arms which is real foolish, and UNPATRIOTIC, and an embarrassment to real PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!!! :p:mad::mad::mad:

If these freaks were "patriots", (they are not), they would think about how their actions would reflect on other law abiding citizens who work within the system as the vast majority of Americans are and do.

Where does the modern Christian concept in the new testament of adhering to laws authorize this type of chit? IT DOES NOT.

These pukes are freaks if the media accounts of allegations are accurate, (and they prolly are as this makes great stuff to trash Christians and the right).


Planning to murder police officers at a funeral for the purpose of starting a war just doesn't ring true and in fact sounds about as far fetched as a government story can get...I smell a rat and I'm surprised nobody else does.

Then you are underestimating Big Sis and the Chicago thugs. I bet they have them dead as they picked the time to crush them, (and they look like they have them cold). E mails and audio are likely gonna trickle out. These fools with their web site were real easy pickings. Hope Big Sis doesn't have some more freaks out there to spring on us.


I will trust the people untill the government produces iron clad indisputable evidence of their guilt, but more important, I'm curious to see how the government uses this to expand their power and deprive us of our rights.

Hard to trust each and everyone of 300 million Americans.

Some Americans do real bad chit and are real stoooooooopid, as these freaks look real bad to me.

These fools are likely gonna set some new records, as the internet is a great place to catch idiots.

I hope most Cornservatives keep their distance and denounce these pukes.

Respectfully, JR

[OldMercsRule]

Here is a WSJ article. JR

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304739104575154041322442962.html?m od=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLETopStories

He said Mr. Stone was a gracious host and offered him coffee. But soon Mr. Killman "got a bad vibe" as the Stones started joking about police officers who'd been shot in a coffee shop in Washington state.

Donna Stone said her ex-husband, David Brian Stone Sr., was stubborn.
The family's dining room table was strewn with shotgun shells, Mr. Killman recalled. The elder Mr. Stone said the shells would be filled with gunpowder and tied to trip wires to simulate landmines.

At first "they just seemed like a down-to-earth hillbilly family," he said. "After 20 minutes into the meeting, I realized these guys are not dealing with a full deck."

Matt Savino, commander of the Lenawee Volunteer Michigan Militia near Mr. Stone's home, said in recent months Mr. Stone became "paranoid" and began asking other militia groups to join in military exercises.

Mr. Stone began talking more about how "the federal government was coming down on them" and the need to be on the offensive and retain the element of surprise, Mr. Savino said.

Ms. Harsh said Mr. Stone "always thought he could hide from the government. He thought he was invincible."

Looks like a nut burger of the first order to me. The non family fruits that joined him had to be real cracked as well.

My overpriced $.02. JR

[OldMercsRule]

Fortunately these guys look like such fools.........



http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100330/D9EP7HNO0.html


DETROIT (AP) - Federal authorities had been monitoring members of a Michigan-based Christian militia for some time but were forced to "take them down" over the weekend after learning of an imminent threat against police, the U.S. attorney leading the prosecution said Tuesday.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100331/D9EPI2J00.html

"What we were focused on here is their conduct, not on their religion. And what they have talked about is being very anti-government," McQuade said. "They fear this 'new world order' and they thought that it was their job to fight against government - the federal government in particular."

The group was preparing to carry out an attack sometime in April, prosecutors said, after months of paramilitary training that began in 2008 and included learning how to shoot guns and make bombs. Authorities seized guns in the raids but would not say whether they found explosives.

McQuade declined to discuss other specifics, including how the group originally came to the attention of authorities or how agents learned about the alleged plans for an attack in April.

Hopefully this will be hard to hype by the media. Obvious whacked out fools that would have a hard time tying their shoes. JR

[OldMercsRule]

Here is a Huffynut drawing some cornclusions from these fools.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-olmsted/hutaree-militia-the-passi_b_519332.html


Not that these militias needed to go far. American gun culture is the most fertile of breeding grounds for the psychology of Armageddon. This perfect storm has yielded warriors for Christ, paranoid and riven with a thousand forms of fear by an America that looks less and less like they do, and helmed by -- horrors! -- a smart President.

Kinda doubt these fools will be viewed as having full decks, butt the Left will try. JR

[HogTrash]

Here is a Huffynut drawing some cornclusions from these fools.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-olmsted/hutaree-militia-the-passi_b_519332.html


Not that these militias needed to go far. American gun culture is the most fertile of breeding grounds for the psychology of Armageddon. This perfect storm has yielded warriors for Christ, paranoid and riven with a thousand forms of fear by an America that looks less and less like they do, and helmed by -- horrors! -- a smart President.

Kinda doubt these fools will be viewed as having full decks, butt the Left will try. JRThese militia people aren't nutcases...Many are average Americans who are simply afraid for their future just like many of the rest of us, except they're not handling it too well.

Some people aren't as intelligent as others, but that doesn't make them dangerous, just big mouth idiots who are targeted by a government, anxious to make examples of someone.

[Cap'n Chew]

Very reasonable post. :salute:

Thanks, I swear I'm not that unreasonable lol.

[OldMercsRule]

These militia people aren't nutcases...

If you say so HogT. :laugh2:

These Hutaree fellers look out in orbit ta me. If they were planning to gun down a cop responding to a 911 call then use IEDs at the funeral I hope they rot in prison. :mad:


Many are average Americans who are simply afraid for their future just like many of the rest of us, except they're not handling it too well.

You have a knack fer understatement brother. :laugh2:


Some people aren't as intelligent as others, but that doesn't make them dangerous, just big mouth idiots who are targeted by a government, anxious to make examples of someone.

Doesn't look to be the case here.

[HogTrash]

If you say so HogT. :laugh2:

These Hutaree fellers look out in orbit ta me. If they were planning to gun down a cop responding to a 911 call then use IEDs at the funeral I hope they rot in prison. :mad:



You have a knack fer understatement brother. :laugh2:



Doesn't look to be the case here.I believe that maybe you have misunderstood what I said, which is usually the case when somebody is trying to make someone appear to be a fool.

The best determinator of a fool would be 'someone that blindly beileves politically motivated government agents and an agenda driven left wing media'.

I do not condone nor defend the alledged actions these people have been accused of, but neither will I condemn them on the federal governments word alone.


Originally Posted by HogTrash
mispell{Statistical}, these are usually folks who are patrotic Americans that support the military and their local police and only take issue with the federal government and federal law enforcement agencies.Earlier I posted that "statisticly, people in groups like these are usually folks who are patrotic Americans that support the military and their local police", that is untill given reason not to.

Could they possibly be guilty of these crimes?...Of course...There are exceptions to every rule, but I will give benefit of doubt to "the people" over the feds, who way too often violate people's rights.

Like I said, I'm curious to see how this will affect The Department Of Homeland Security's domestic terrorism policies?... This whole thing reeks of rotting rat corpses...

[OldMercsRule]

I believe that maybe you have misunderstood what I said, which is usually the case when somebody is trying to make someone appear to be a fool.

I have no reason to believe that you are a fool HogT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HogTrash
These militia people aren't nutcases...

That said, I think one or more of your statements are foolish, as the one above ^^^ is, IMHO. Sorry if you took offence.


The best determinator of a fool would be 'someone that blindly beileves politically motivated government agents and an agenda driven left wing media'.

I do not condone nor defend the alledged actions these people have been accused of, but neither will I condemn them on the federal governments word alone.

I don't think I'm blind HogT.

I also share corncerns about the political media corntext of this incident.

I also know there are incidents like Ruby Ridge and Waco Tx, where the Gubment has gotten out of hand in the past.

I also know that the Left leaning Main Stream Media attempts to paint the Right as gun toting knuckle dragging hillbillys, and MSNBC already used this incident to attempt to smear the Right and justify Big Sister's fears of the Right. That said, the media's accounts from quoted individuals familier with these particular idiots that I posted prior to your last statement, (that I thought foolish), show that these particular militia people are a VERY LIKELY a problem. Their web site is also indicative of a problem with them.


Earlier I posted that "statisticly, people in groups like these are usually folks who are patrotic Americans that support the military and their local police", that is untill given reason not to.

Yes you did, and I'm only condeming the alleged activities of this particular militia, not all militias.


Could they possibly be guilty of these crimes?...Of course...There are exceptions to every rule, but I will give benefit of doubt to "the people" over the feds, who way too often violate people's rights.

While I distrust the Obamaprompter Napalitano lead Gubment, (I was the one who cited the letter of intent to watch vets on an earlier post), nobody died in this carefully executed deal.

The parties will face trial and have their day in Court with their own attornies. There was an informant in the group which has been alledged to be openly active since 2008.

This is one militia group to not support IMHO, as that makes the rest of the Right look bad and fit the Left wing media elites' characiture.


Like I said, I'm curious to see how this will affect The Department Of Homeland Security's domestic terrorism policies?... This whole thing reeks of rotting rat corpses...

Big Sis will look for more nuts like these: HogT.

That fact that they look like such a bunch of whacked out fools is a good thing.

Hopefully the media loses interest. so far so good.

[OldMercsRule]

Old Merc you make some good points about the left using these guys as poster children for all of the tea party and the republican right in general.
But the right does it as well, can you say "Acorn", used as a poster child against the left.

one way to look at this is more party politics to keep the left and right whipped up against each other again while the politicians and monopoly men invent ways to protect us from the "militia" or "acorn" or rob us blind with bail outs and as a nice side effect for them, keep local communities from organizing. Keep the public left and right from trusting its neighbors, but on the contrary trusting the good ol federal gov't.

I don't want to stand with these guys but i would like to see justice done evenly and across the board from time to time. Throwing these guys to the political dogs for future republican political advancement is the type of thing that has turned me off to the major parties. they are moe concerned about power and position than about doing what right. What's politically expedient "collateral damage o well. that the price we have to pay for ____ . Do you want the democrats to win?"
If the republican party would have done what's right more often over the past 30 years you wouldn't have guys running around in the woods in fatigues.


I say it's still to early to tell what is going on. the gov't has had a chance to smear and make the guys look bad as possibly. Last time i checked it's still legal to be over the top with your religion and guns and have an ex-wife that doesn't like you. As long your not hurting anyone, which they have not. Frankly I'm waiting to hear exactly how the feds knew about this alleged plot.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Methings a small foolish operation by some crazies out in the weeds is a very different deal then ACORN.

I agree that the idiots technically are innocent until they get their day in court or cornfess.

ACORN has been around for over two decades and has received loads of Ferderal tax payor dollars over the years, (thanks to dim wit Democrats who passed the laws to feed them). They filed lawsuits against banks to force shaky loans which helped blow our financial system up, (Obamaprompter represented them in Chicago).

Their efforts very much helped to elect a dim wit Democrat governor in the State where I live.

ACORN was a tax payor funded part of the dim wit Democrat party and even after bankruptcy a Federal judge has ruled they are intitled to funds after Congress cut them off when they got caught on tape incouragin' the set up a HO house with tax dollars on a number of occasions.

If you can't see the OBVIOUS profound difference in the pervasive criminal activity to pervert our elections, (many indictments and cornvictions in many states), of ACORN over many years with tax dollars and a stooooopid bunch of violent fruits out in the weeds with a 'puter a web site and some guns who lack brains ta tie their own shoes, I can't help ya.

The difference is not morally equivenent at all, it is an order of magitude of difference.

Respectfully, JR

[HogTrash]

I have no reason to believe that you are a fool HogT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HogTrash
These militia people aren't nutcases...

That said, I think one or more of your statements are foolish, as the one above ^^^ is, IMHO. Sorry if you took offence.



I don't think I'm blind HogT.

I also share corncerns about the political media corntext of this incident.

I also know there are incidents like Ruby Ridge and Waco Tx, where the Gubment has gotten out of hand in the past.

I also know that the Left leaning Main Stream Media attempts to paint the Right as gun toting knuckle dragging hillbillys, and MSNBC already used this incident to attempt to smear the Right and justify Big Sister's fears of the Right. That said, the media's accounts from quoted individuals familier with these particular idiots that I posted prior to your last statement, (that I thought foolish), show that these particular militia people are a VERY LIKELY a problem. Their web site is also indicative of a problem with them.



Yes you did, and I'm only condeming the alleged activities of this particular militia, not all militias.



While I distrust the Obamaprompter Napalitano lead Gubment, (I was the one who cited the letter of intent to watch vets on an earlier post), nobody died in this carefully executed deal.

The parties will face trial and have their day in Court with their own attornies. There was an informant in the group which has been alledged to be openly active since 2008.

This is one militia group to not support IMHO, as that makes the rest of the Right look bad and fit the Left wing media elites' characiture.



Big Sis will look for more nuts like these: HogT.

That fact that they look like such a bunch of whacked out fools is a good thing.

Hopefully the media loses interest. so far so good.Like I said, I will not even condemn this militia group on the word of federal agents untill I see indisputible iron clad evidence.

[revelarts]

Well here's the 1st part i was looking for.

the FBI admits group had been "infiltrated" by at least 1 FBI agent.
More than once the word infiltrated mean INSTIGATED by an FBI agent.

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Remember Hal Turner

http://www.northjersey.com/news/Records_show_feds_used_ultra-right_radio_host_for_years.html

Records show feds used ultra-right radio host for years
Sunday, November 29, 2009
Last updated: Thursday December 24, 2009, 2:21 PM
BY MIKE KELLY AND PETER J. SAMPSON
The Record


They called him "Valhalla."

But it was more than a nickname.

For more than five years, Hal Turner of North Bergen lived a double life.

The public knew him as an ultra-right-wing radio talk show host and Internet blogger with an audience of neo-Nazis and white supremacists attracted to his scorched-earth racism and bare-knuckles bashing of public figures. But to the FBI, and its expanding domestic counter-terror intelligence operations in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, Turner was "Valhalla" — his code name as an informant who spied on his own controversial followers.

Turner's clandestine past was confirmed this past summer when he was jailed on charges that he made threats on his blog against three federal judges in Chicago. In court after his arrest, federal prosecutors acknowledged Turner's FBI ties but downplayed his importance and even described him as "unproductive."

But an investigation by The Record — based on government documents, e-mails, court records and almost 20 hours of jailhouse interviews with Turner — shows that federal authorities made frequent use of Turner in its battle against domestic terrorism.

As Turner took to his radio show and blog to say that those who opposed his extremist views deserve to die, he received thousands of dollars from the FBI to report on such groups as the Aryan Nations and the white supremacist National Alliance, and even a member of the Blue Eyed Devils skinhead punk band. Later, he was sent undercover to Brazil where he reported a plot to send non-military supplies to anti-American Iraqi resistance fighters. Sometimes he signed "Valhalla" on his FBI payment receipts instead of his own name.....



Ever hear of Cointelpro, the declassified FBI plot against blacks used in the 60's and 70s, Infiltration and INSTIGATION to make them look bad and shut them down.

the news is tricing out about this case, and these guys may be idiot cop killers but it's still an open question weather the FBI found these guys and seeded a plot with susceptible people, OR if was truly "Home grown" OR if was nothing but idle stupid talk.

[OldMercsRule]

Like I said, I will not even condemn this militia group on the word of federal agents untill I see indisputible iron clad evidence.

Your bias is clear: HogT.

Since you don't apparantly trust media reports from first hand witnesses either, yer likely gonna have to hold yer position unless ya have time to take a trip to the MI Court room and hear evidence as it is presented from witnesses, and read the Court pleadings.

[revelarts]

Since you don't apparently trust media reports from first hand witnesses either, yer likely gonna have to hold yer position unless ya have time to take a trip to the MI Court room and hear evidence as it is presented from witnesses, and read the Court pleadings.

no ones asked me but,
so far 1st hand witnesses have only said they where "scary" and didn't like the gov't. As i've pointed out sometime the gov't lies.

the media is hit and miss.

your a constitutionalists, i believe, I think a jury and hearing the evidence, being faced by your accusers is reasonable before sentencing even in public opinion here.

[OldMercsRule]

no ones asked me but,
so far 1st hand witnesses have only said they where "scary" and didn't like the gov't. As i've pointed out sometime the gov't lies.

Yes sometimes the Gubment lies.


the media is hit and miss.

Yes sometimes the media gets it wrong.


your a constitutionalists, i believe,

Yes I luv the Cornstitution and this Country.

The Federal Gubment is outa corntrol and has been since 1932, (some would say since Woodrow Wilson).

We are heading for a cliff and Obamaprompter, (Nasty Nancy and Horrible Harry) have their collective feet in it with the nitrous oxide and the turbo charger on full tilt boogie.

The dim wit Democrats are the primary drivers and always have been butt: Republicans have been Statists as well contrary to the Corntsitution and the tenth amendment.

The people need to take it back peacefully, as we the people have allowed this to happen over the years.

The method is clear and within the Cornstitution: vote the bums out.

If that can be done and new pols held to their word to get the Gubment under corntrol we can save this great place.

If we pick up our guns, openly arm and train and distrust EVERYTHING in the media and in the Gubment we are gonna make things worse.

Scepticism of the media and Gubment is a healthy thing, and I'm very sceptical.

That said: supporting these Hutaree idiots, (look at their own web site if ya don't trust the media), helps rational people marginalize those who do.

Here is a snippet from Hutaree's web site:

"Preparing for the end time battles to keep the testimony of Jesus Christ alive"

No matter how ya feel about the future the media or the Gubment, having that kinda language and a video of commando type activity for all to see is very foolish and invites a Gubment with a Napalitano mindset ta take notice, as they clearly did notice.

The alleged plot to kill cops is all they need. I bet they have tapes to cornvince people like you and HogT, as they spent tax dollars to infiltrate the group.

Obviously, (at least to me), that Obamaprompter and Napolitano felt these fools would make a good example to hammer the right with or they would not have placed at least one informant inside the group that has been openly active since 2008, (according to the media), and done such a careful job of arresting and charging them.

Think of the money spent here, (humvees and helicopters, [Time mag has a piece], informants and such). Napolitano is motivated to be proven right in her whacked policy to watch law abining citizens instead of Islamo terrorists, IMHO.

So far so good. People can see these are fruit cakes and they have largely been ignored by the media.


I think a jury and hearing the evidence, being faced by your accusers is reasonable before sentencing

Obviously we should let due process play out as I said previously and have again said.


even in public opinion here.

I respectfully disagree. I think a carefull distancing from them after denouncement of allegations (as I have done) and then ignore is the best policy so the media and Administration can't use them to hammer the NRA, law abiding gun owners, Tea Party et al.

There is enough now known to see these Hutaree folks were obvious idiots and deserve public condemnation of their alleged acts.

Even Hogt did as much.

[OldMercsRule]

I was guessing about the existance of tapes in my earlier post, now with the denial of bond the existence of recorded tapes in in the news.

I hope the support of these freaks is now obviously not productive to those who have supported them.

They said the agent accompanied Stone and others to a planned meeting of militias in Kentucky in February. They were forced to turn back in Indianapolis because of bad weather, but the agent recorded a speech to those in the van by a speaker identified as Stone.

"Now is the time to strike and take our nation back. … This war will come whether we are ready or not. We will fight alongside anyone that calls the new world order their enemy,” a man Waterstreet identified as Stone said on the tape. Waterstreet said the recording was made on Feb. 6. 2010.

"Wives of law enforcement and their children were equal targets, no better than police," said Stone in another recording.

Federal prosecutors said David Stone Sr.'s son, Joshua Stone was second in charge. "I don't know or care who to target, we all have jobs to do. Welcome to the business of killing," Joshua Stone told group members at a recent training mission.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/23013214/detail.html

[revelarts]

Indiana Hutaree militiaman gets back his 41 guns, 100,000 rounds of ammunition from the feds Thomas Piatek, member of the Hutaree militia, was charged with plotting to kill police officers and overthrow the government, but was acquitted by a judge in March who cited insuffient evidence.
Earlier this year, Thomas Piatek of Indiana was freed by a judge who tossed out charges he and fellow militia members plotted to overthrow the federal government. Friday, Piatek got his guns back.
An admitted militiaman got 41 guns and more than 100,000 rounds of ammunition back from the government Friday.
The guns were confiscated when Thomas Piatek and six other members of the Hutaree militia were arrested in 2009 on charges that they planned to kill police officers and overthrow the government. He was acquitted in March, when a federal judge, Victoria Roberts, found there was insufficient evidence in the case. Piatek and the others then petitioned to get their weapons back.
The implements of destructions — which included an AK-47, handguns, shotguns, crossbows and swords — required two trips to take home, according to TV station WLS (http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local/indiana&id=8727826).
When Piatek arrived to pick up his property from the Hammond, Ind., police station, he was already packing heat.
“Just a piece, you know, whatever," Piatek said, according to WLS. "You got a phone, keys, whatever. It ain't a thing with me."
Other members of the militia also got their guns back, but none had a collection to rival Piatek’s.


Piatek also got back military helmets, bulletproof vests, $100 cash and his cell phone, the Detroit Free Press reports (http://www.freep.com/article/20120516/NEWS01/205160439/3-Hutaree-to-get-guns-back).
The judge let weapons charges stand against two members of the militia, including its leader, David Stone Sr. Both pleaded guilty to possessing a machine gun, a federal crime.
“This is a victory for the Constitution," Piatek's lawyer Arthur Weiss, who accompanied his client, said.
jfields@nydailynews.com


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/indiana-militiaman-back-41-guns-100-000-rounds-ammunition-feds-article-1.1109998#ixzz20VZhDrkN




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Well the system worked here, after being crucified in the MSM and used as reasons for more gun control and more suspicion of the militia they are free to go.

could be worse i guess.

[Tyr-Ziu Saxnot]

Indiana Hutaree militiaman gets back his 41 guns, 100,000 rounds of ammunition from the feds Thomas Piatek, member of the Hutaree militia, was charged with plotting to kill police officers and overthrow the government, but was acquitted by a judge in March who cited insuffient evidence.
Earlier this year, Thomas Piatek of Indiana was freed by a judge who tossed out charges he and fellow militia members plotted to overthrow the federal government. Friday, Piatek got his guns back.
An admitted militiaman got 41 guns and more than 100,000 rounds of ammunition back from the government Friday.
The guns were confiscated when Thomas Piatek and six other members of the Hutaree militia were arrested in 2009 on charges that they planned to kill police officers and overthrow the government. He was acquitted in March, when a federal judge, Victoria Roberts, found there was insufficient evidence in the case. Piatek and the others then petitioned to get their weapons back.
The implements of destructions — which included an AK-47, handguns, shotguns, crossbows and swords — required two trips to take home, according to TV station WLS (http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local/indiana&id=8727826).
When Piatek arrived to pick up his property from the Hammond, Ind., police station, he was already packing heat.
“Just a piece, you know, whatever," Piatek said, according to WLS. "You got a phone, keys, whatever. It ain't a thing with me."
Other members of the militia also got their guns back, but none had a collection to rival Piatek’s.


Piatek also got back military helmets, bulletproof vests, $100 cash and his cell phone, the Detroit Free Press reports (http://www.freep.com/article/20120516/NEWS01/205160439/3-Hutaree-to-get-guns-back).
The judge let weapons charges stand against two members of the militia, including its leader, David Stone Sr. Both pleaded guilty to possessing a machine gun, a federal crime.
“This is a victory for the Constitution," Piatek's lawyer Arthur Weiss, who accompanied his client, said.
jfields@nydailynews.com


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/indiana-militiaman-back-41-guns-100-000-rounds-ammunition-feds-article-1.1109998#ixzz20VZhDrkN




---------------------
Well the system worked here, after being crucified in the MSM and used as reasons for more gun control and more suspicion of the militia they are free to go.

could be worse i guess.

Piatek apparenty has a nice gun collection and the 2nd amendment insures him that right .
But 100,000 rounds of ammo is overkill as it is well known that about 25,000 rounds is the perfect amount!;)
41 GUNS IS not that many, hell at times I've had over a hundred as a young man. Have considerably less now.
On the ammo, government has went after ammo to make it harder and more costly to buy, example they now force the military to crush and not resale its used brass casings. Because those spent casings being sold were then reloaded and sold at a much cheaper price to citizens.
Government fears us because it knows it is doing Unconstitutional agenda and some future day may force us to stop it from COMPLETELY destroying our Constitution!!


[B]THAT IS THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER!-- :flyflag:----Tyr