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-Cp
01-17-2007, 02:26 PM
Amid protests and a flurry of last-minute efforts by congressmen, two border patrol agents are scheduled today to begin long prison sentences for shooting and wounding a Mexican drug smuggler who was granted full immunity to testify against them.
In an interview with WND, an angry Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., called President Bush a "disgrace" for refusing to pardon Jose Alonso Compean and Ignacio Ramos, who were sentenced to 12 years and 11 years, respectively, in October. With hopes for a presidential pardon dwindling, the lawmakers had requested that Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez assist in a motion to keep the agents free on bond during the appeals process. But late yesterday, U.S. District Judge Kathleen Cardone in El Paso, Texas, ruled the men must surrender to federal marshals at 2 p.m. Mountain Time today.

"This is the worst betrayal of American defenders I have ever seen," Rohrabacher said of the president. "It's shameful this was done by someone who is in the Republican Party. He obviously thinks more about his agreements with Mexico than the lives of American people and backing up his defenders."

The California lawmaker, who has helped lead efforts to obtain a pardon, charged the Bush administration has been playing a "cruel game." Initially, he said, officials insisted the agents could not be pardoned because they had not filled out the proper paperwork. But Rohrabacher told WND the White House did not explain to the public that the agents were being required – without justification, he contended – to first admit guilt.

Then, last Friday, presidential press secretary Tony Snow addressed the issue for the first time, arguing that prior to the shooting, the agents did not know if the smuggler, Osbaldo Aldrete-Davila, was an illegal alien, and they were unaware he had about 750 pounds of marijuana.

Compean and Ramos say they thought the smuggler had a gun, but no weapon was found.

The agents, Snow said, "had received arms training the day before; that said, if you have an incident like this, you must preserve the evidence and you must report it promptly."

"Instead," Snow continued, "according to court documents, they went around and picked up the shell casings. Furthermore, they asked one of their colleagues also to help pick up shell casings. They disposed of them."

'Monday-morning quarterbacking'

TJ Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, a union representing 1,500 agents, argued failure to report the discharge of a firearm is an administrative offense that, at the most, merits a five-day suspension.

"How that translates into 11- and 12-year prison terms is beyond me," he told WND. "They fired at someone they believed had a weapon. He resisted their commands, assaulted one of the officers and then wheeled around and pointed something at them. Logic would say it would be a weapon.

"After all the Monday-morning quarterbacking, I would have to come to the same conclusion," Bonner said. "He's a drug smuggler, for God's sake."

The Department of Homeland Security sent an investigator to Mexico to offer the smuggler, Aldrete-Davila, full immunity in exchange for his testimony against the agents. Now, Aldrete-Davila is suing the U.S. Border Patrol for $5 million for allegedly violating his civil rights.

U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton initially granted immunity to Aldrete-Davila for illegally entering the U.S., drug smuggling and unlawful flight to avoid arrest. Later, Sutton expanded the immunity to cover a second drug offense by Aldrete-Davila – an attempt to smuggle another 1,000 pounds of marijuana into the U.S.

Bonner said Ramos and Compean will be incarcerated at the El Paso jail this week then be moved to separate low-security federal prisons. He's concerned about their safety.

"Bad cops are accepted by the prison population, but good cops are not," Bonner point out. "They'll be surrounded by people they arrested."

Rohrabacher suggested Bush was sending the men to prison in order that his immigration policy not be disrupted.

"He talks about being a Christian, but he has shown no Christian charity," the congressman told San Diego radio host Roger Hedgecock after speaking with WND last night.

Asked by WND for a response to Rohrabacher's remarks, White House spokesman Alex Conant deferred to Snows comments on the case.

Rohrabacher told WND he sees a serious residual result of the administration's handling of the agents.

"The word is out that the southern border is undefended," he said. "Border agents won't dare to draw their weapons, and the drug cartel will double their effort to drive a wedge in our border."

Rohrabacher said he has been disturbed by an "arrogant" lack of response from senior Justice Department and White House officials who have "shoved over" their inquiries to lower-level staff.

"I've never seen an administration that does it this way," he said. "In the past, if there is a senior member of Congress calling, it would require a call back directly from the administration official in question."

The Justice Department did not respond to WND's request for comment.

Bush has received a letter about the case from more than 50 Congress members, and yesterday an online petition by Grassfire.org with more than 225,000 signatures calling for a presidential pardon was delivered to the White House.

'We both yelled out for him to stop'

As WND has reported, a federal jury convicted Compean, 28, and Ramos, 37, in March after a two-week trial on charges of causing serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharge of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence and a civil rights violation.

Ramos is an eight-year veteran of the U.S. Naval Reserve and a former nominee for Border Patrol Agent of the Year.

According to the agents, Ramos responded Feb. 17, 2005, to a request for back-up from Compean, who noticed a suspicious van near the levee road along the Rio Grande River near the Texas town of Fabens, about 40 miles east of El Paso. A third agent also joined the pursuit.

Aldrete-Davila stopped the van on a levee, jumped out and started running toward the river. When he reached the other side of the levee, he was met by Compean who had anticipated the smuggler's attempt to get back to Mexico.

"We both yelled out for him to stop, but he wouldn't stop, and he just kept running," Ramos told California's Inland Valley Daily Bulletin.

"At some point during the time where I'm crossing the canal, I hear shots being fired," Ramos said. "Later, I see Compean on the ground, but I keep running after the smuggler."

At that point, Ramos said, Aldrete-Davila turned toward him, pointing what looked like a gun.

"I shot," Ramos said. "But I didn't think he was hit, because he kept running into the brush and then disappeared into it. Later, we all watched as he jumped into a van waiting for him. He seemed fine. It didn't look like he had been hit at all."

The U.S. government filed charges against Ramos and Compean after giving full immunity to Aldrete-Davila and paying for his medical treatment at an El Paso hospital.

The U.S. Attorney's Office for the Western District of Texas issued a statement in September arguing "the defendants were prosecuted because they had fired their weapons at a man who had attempted to surrender by holding his open hands in the air, at which time Agent Compean attempted to hit the man with the butt of Compean's shotgun, causing the man to run in fear of what the agents would do to him next."

The statement said, "Although both agents saw that the man was not armed, the agents fired at least 15 rounds at him while he was running away from them, hitting him once."

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53805

Mr. P
01-17-2007, 02:29 PM
In an interview with WND, an angry Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., called President Bush a "disgrace" for refusing to pardon Jose Alonso Compean and Ignacio Ramos

pretty well sums it up for me.

Gaffer
01-17-2007, 02:37 PM
Me too. I think these guys were railroaded. Someone was out to get them for some reason.

Gunny
01-17-2007, 02:43 PM
Me too. I think these guys were railroaded. Someone was out to get them for some reason.

The reason is we're the "bad guys." Heaven forbid we want to enforce our borders from criminals crossing illegally. Poor old Jose needs a job so he can not pay taxes and take his loot back with him every weekend to contribute to the economy of Mexico.

It's the "big, bad USofA" picking on the downtrodden ......:dunno:

Mr. P
01-17-2007, 02:47 PM
And the National Guard has to retreat from an attack on U.S. soil because they are ‘guarding’ the border WITHOUT ammo!!! My GOD what’s going on in this Country!!!!!!!!!!! :eek2:

darin
01-17-2007, 02:51 PM
pretty well sums it up for me.

Me too. :(

Gunny
01-17-2007, 02:55 PM
And the National Guard has to retreat from an attack on U.S. soil because they are ‘guarding’ the border WITHOUT ammo!!! My GOD what’s going on in this Country!!!!!!!!!!! :eek2:

No balls is what's going on.

Mr. P
01-17-2007, 03:03 PM
No balls is what's going on.

Everyone just leave your doors open (I mean open not just unlocked) and home unsecured to anyone 24/7. That’s what the government is doing; if it’s ok for them it’s ok for you. We've gone to hell.

Gaffer
01-17-2007, 03:04 PM
And the National Guard has to retreat from an attack on U.S. soil because they are ‘guarding’ the border WITHOUT ammo!!! My GOD what’s going on in this Country!!!!!!!!!!! :eek2:

I heard or read that the Guard is under orders not to fire unless fired on. So a bunch of guys with guns can just walk up on them and they can't do a thing about it until the guys start shooting. Of course then its too late. So the Guardsman withdrew.

Seems the order needs to be changed. If they are armed they get one warning to drop the weapons. Then they get popped.

5stringJeff
01-17-2007, 03:10 PM
Bush is 100% wrong on illegal immigration and border defense.

Gaffer
01-17-2007, 03:43 PM
Bush is 100% wrong on illegal immigration and border defense.

That's for sure.

Dilloduck
01-17-2007, 05:29 PM
That's for sure.

I wanna hear his reasoning behind not issuing a pardon.

Mr. P
01-17-2007, 05:45 PM
I wanna hear his reasoning behind not issuing a pardon.

When pigs fly.

Dilloduck
01-17-2007, 05:49 PM
When pigs fly.

You got that right---anyone accepting this brand of "justice" is a traitor---let the impeachment begin--I'm done with him. Bring on the next puppet.

Insein
01-17-2007, 06:27 PM
Don't know what to say.

Someone needs to goto congress and make that analogy for them to leave their doors wide open and see how safe they feel.

Dilloduck
01-17-2007, 08:29 PM
Well I heard Snows' explanation anyway--Bush sees' it as respecting the rule of law. I'd laugh if there weren't 2 guys whose lives are screwed for shooting an illegal in the ass and pretending they didn't.

Gunny
01-17-2007, 10:06 PM
Well I heard Snows' explanation anyway--Bush sees' it as respecting the rule of law. I'd laugh if there weren't 2 guys whose lives are screwed for shooting an illegal in the ass and pretending they didn't.

Respecting the rule of law? :eek: He entered our country illegally and was smuggling dope. What about THOSE laws?:mad:

Dilloduck
01-17-2007, 10:25 PM
Respecting the rule of law? :eek: He entered our country illegally and was smuggling dope. What about THOSE laws?:mad:

And the feds search this guy down to testify against the border guards ?

If there isn't more than meets the eye here, we're goners.

Gunny
01-17-2007, 10:49 PM
And the feds search this guy down to testify against the border guards ?

If there isn't more than meets the eye here, we're goners.

We villify ourselves. Is it any wonder the rest of the world piles on?

Dilloduck
01-17-2007, 10:55 PM
We villify ourselves. Is it any wonder the rest of the world piles on?

The rest of the world doesn't even know what a majority of America is like. They pile on perception.

Gunny
01-17-2007, 10:58 PM
The rest of the world doesn't even know what a majority of America is like. They pile on perception.

Sure they do. But something is seriously wrong here when our border guards can't even defend our border against an illegal smuggling dope without getting screwed.

Or we put Nat'l Guardsmen on the border as a show of force but don't let them do anything.

Dilloduck
01-17-2007, 11:01 PM
Sure they do. But something is seriously wrong here when our border guards can't even defend our border against an illegal smuggling dope without getting screwed.

Or we put Nat'l Guardsmen on the border as a show of force but don't let them do anything.

VERY seriously wrong---Bush is acting too cozy with Mexico. WHY?

Gunny
01-17-2007, 11:04 PM
VERY seriously wrong---Bush is acting too cozy with Mexico. WHY?

C'mon, Dillo. You live 80 miles from me. You know as well as I do Bush has kissed LULAC's ass from Day One. It's how he got the Mexican vote for Governor.

And, IMO, THAT is the problem here. Neither party wants to be the one to go on record as the party that "hates Mexicans," and regardless the truth, that's what the accusation will be.

Mr. P
01-17-2007, 11:07 PM
VERY seriously wrong---Bush is acting too cozy with Mexico. WHY?

Oil or Tacos or cheap labor? Hummmm I'll think about it and get back to ya.

jillian
01-17-2007, 11:12 PM
Oil or Tacos or cheap labor? Hummmm I'll think about it and get back to ya.

Cheap labor costs... which then drive down wages for the middle class making all his corporatist buddies happy.

Dilloduck
01-17-2007, 11:14 PM
Oil or Tacos or cheap labor? Hummmm I'll think about it and get back to ya.

What's sad is that we have to even wonder why our goverment (et al) is content to let our south door open. Convince me that we're not being screwed by more than what we can see.

Mr. P
01-17-2007, 11:19 PM
Cheap labor costs... which then drive down wages for the middle class making all his corporatist buddies happy.

LOL...No. We all know it's NOT legal to hire an illegal. More to it than that.

Dilloduck
01-17-2007, 11:24 PM
Cheap labor costs... which then drive down wages for the middle class making all his corporatist buddies happy.

And there are no liberals who own corporations ? I certainly don't see the border problem anywhere on the Congress agenda.

Gunny
01-17-2007, 11:34 PM
And there are no liberals who own corporations ? I certainly don't see the border problem anywhere on the Congress agenda.

As I said, neither party wants to be labelled the "bad guy" alienating the Hispanic vote.

Dilloduck
01-17-2007, 11:38 PM
As I said, neither party wants to be labelled the "bad guy" alienating the Hispanic vote.

How come none of them want to be the good guy who saves America ?

Gunny
01-17-2007, 11:46 PM
How come none of them want to be the good guy who saves America ?

Because that isn't how it's being sold. It's sold as they're doing jobs we won't do, and they're just trying to better themselves.

If someone would come out and point out what they cost us in unpaid taxes, and our having to foot the bill for their using our social infrastructure without contributing, and start hammering people for hiring them, I think it would be a different story.

Living down here, you know as well as I do that it isn't big corporations that hire these illegals ... it's the two-bit business owners trying to squeeze every dime of profit they possibly can.

Besides Swift (hardly what I would call a big corporation), which corporation has been busted for hiring them en masse? But you can find them in any small-time restaurant or construction site, doing some landscaping, or auto mechanic's shop.

Dilloduck
01-17-2007, 11:57 PM
Because that isn't how it's being sold. It's sold as they're doing jobs we won't do, and they're just trying to better themselves.

If someone would come out and point out what they cost us in unpaid taxes, and our having to foot the bill for their using our social infrastructure without contributing, and start hammering people for hiring them, I think it would be a different story.

Living down here, you know as well as I do that it isn't big corporations that hire these illegals ... it's the two-bit business owners trying to squeeze every dime of profit they possibly can.

Besides Swift (hardly what I would call a big corporation), which corporation has been busted for hiring them en masse? But you can find them in any small-time restaurant or construction site, doing some landscaping, or auto mechanic's shop.

Sorry-I don't get it-----Democrats and Republicans are selling the same story the same way? They actually agree that we should be flooded with illegals? No wonder they hide it. Looking like money hungry bastards selling out thier country to those who love cheap labor can't be real flattering.
A large majority of Americans want them sent back--so exactly who loves the cheap labor?

Mr. P
01-18-2007, 12:03 AM
How come none of them want to be the good guy who saves America ?

Could it be because they have lost sight of what America is?

Seriously, are these folks living in the same world as we do?
They watch polls and listen to advisors, political action committees, special interest groups, Lobbyist and such.

Gaffer
01-18-2007, 05:32 PM
Could it be because they have lost sight of what America is?

Seriously, are these folks living in the same world as we do?
They watch polls and listen to advisors, political action committees, special interest groups, Lobbyist and such.

They don't live in the same world as we do. The rest of us work for a living. polls mean nothing when a big money lobbiest shows up at their door.

Gunny
01-18-2007, 05:47 PM
Sorry-I don't get it-----Democrats and Republicans are selling the same story the same way? They actually agree that we should be flooded with illegals? No wonder they hide it. Looking like money hungry bastards selling out thier country to those who love cheap labor can't be real flattering.
A large majority of Americans want them sent back--so exactly who loves the cheap labor?

No, the Democrats and Republicans are playing politics. If you use the black vote as a historical precedent for ethnic voting, blacks supported Republicans en masse until FDR. They have supported Democrats en masse since.

Neither party wants to be responsible for alienating a minority vote that could easily be the swing vote in a Nation cut so close down the middle in terms of voting.

Gaffer
01-18-2007, 09:44 PM
No, the Democrats and Republicans are playing politics. If you use the black vote as a historical precedent for ethnic voting, blacks supported Republicans en masse until FDR. They have supported Democrats en masse since.

Neither party wants to be responsible for alienating a minority vote that could easily be the swing vote in a Nation cut so close down the middle in terms of voting.

Yep, and the repubs want the cheap labor that comes in while the dems want them as voters. Both sides have agendas here.