Lynch, Tillman's brother: U.S. military lied

[lily]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/24/tillman.hearing/index.html?eref=rss_topstories


Lynch, Tillman's brother: U.S. military lied
POSTED: 1:45 p.m. EDT, April 24, 2007



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former Pfc. Jessica Lynch and the brother of Army Ranger
Pat Tillman told a House panel Tuesday that the U.S. military lied about
Tillman's death and Lynch's capture.

After her vehicle was attacked in Iraq in March 2003, Lynch suffered a
mangled spinal column, broken arm, crushed foot, shattered femur and even a
sexual assault.

But it only added insult to injury, literally, when she returned to her
parents' home in West Virginia, which "was under siege by media all
repeating the story of the little girl 'Rambo' from the hills of West
Virginia who went down fighting," Lynch said.
"It was not true," she said before gently chiding the military. "The truth
is always more heroic than the hype."

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform invited the two to
testify on how the Pentagon spread false stories about Tillman and Lynch.
The committee chairman, Henry Waxman, D-California, went as far as to say
that the military "invented" tales.

"The bare minimum we owe our soldiers and their families is the truth,"
Waxman said. "That didn't happen for two of the most famous soldiers in the
Iraq and Afghanistan wars."

An equally blunt Kevin Tillman, Pat Tillman's brother, told the panel that
the military tried to spin his brother's 2004 death to deflect attention
from emerging failings in the Afghanistan war.

As the tide was turning in the U.S. battle against Afghan insurgents -- and
as media outlets prepared to release reports on detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib
in Iraq -- the military saw Pat Tillman's death as an "opportunity," Kevin
Tillman told the panel.

Brother calls tale 'calculated lies'
Though it was clearly a case of fratricide, the military released a
"manufactured narrative" detailing how Pat Tillman died leading a courageous
counterattack in an Afghan mountain pass, Kevin Tillman said. (Watch Kevin
Tillman accuse the military of lying )

Even after it became clear the report was bogus, the military clung to the
"utter fiction" that Pat Tillman was killed by a member of his platoon who
was following the rules of engagement, the brother said.

"They never felt threatened and they still shot up the village unprovoked,"
Kevin Tillman said. "This was not some fog of war; they simply lost
control."

Tillman bristled at the military claim that the initial report was merely
misleading.

Clearly resentful, he told the panel that writing a field report stating his
brother had been "transferred to an intensive care unit for continued CPR
after most of his head had been taken off by multiple .556 rounds is not
misleading."

"These are deliberate and calculated lies," he said.

Pat Tillman, who became a national hero after he gave up a lucrative
contract with the NFL's Arizona Cardinals to join the Army's elite Rangers
force, was awarded the Silver Star, the military's third-highest combat
decoration, after the Army said he was killed leading a counterattack.

The Army later acknowledged not only that Tillman was killed by his fellow
soldiers, but that officers in Tillman's chain of command knew the
counterattack story was bogus.

Though the military blamed the erroneous report on an inadequate initial
investigation, Mary Tillman told ESPN Radio last month that everyone
involved in the shooting knew immediately that her son had been shot three
times in the head by a member of his platoon.

"That was not a misstep; that was not an error," she said. "This was an
attempt to dupe the public and to promote this war and to get recruitments
up, and that is immoral."

The Defense Department said last month that nine military officers,
including four generals, would face "corrective action" in connection with
Tillman's death.

The Tillman family released a statement calling the corrective action a slap
on the wrist and saying, "Once again, we are being used as props in a
Pentagon public relations exercise."

Waxman took the Tillman family's side even before the late Ranger's brother
and mother testified.

"The Tillman family was kept in the dark for more than a month," Waxman
said. "Evidence was destroyed. Witness statements were doctored. The Tillman
family wants to know how all of this could've happened."

Lynch: Truth 'not always easy'
Lynch's testimony began with a recollection of the March 23, 2003, attack
and her purported rescue nine days later.

As she and her fellow 11 soldiers drove through Nassiriya, Iraq, they
noticed armed men standing in the streets and on rooftops. Three soldiers
were quickly killed when a rocket-propelled grenade slammed into their
vehicle, Lynch said.

The other eight died in the ensuing fighting or from injuries incurred
during the fighting, she said. Lynch later woke up at Saddam Hussein General
Hospital.

"When I awoke, I did not know where I was. I could not move. I could not
call for help. I could not fight," she said, explaining she had a 6-inch
gash in her head and numerous broken bones. "The nurses at the hospital
tried to soothe me, and they even tried unsuccessfully at one point to
return me to Americans."

On April 1, U.S. troops came for her.

"A soldier came into the room. He tore the American flag from his uniform,
and he handed it to me in my hand and he told me, 'We're American soldiers,
and we're here to take you home.' And I looked at him and I said, 'Yes, I'm
an American soldier, too,' " she recalled.

She was distraught to come home and find herself billed as a hero when two
of her fellow soldiers had fought bravely until the firefight's end and
another had died after picking up soldiers and removing them from harm's
way.

"The American people are capable of determining their own ideals for heroes,
and they don't need to be told elaborate lies," she said. "I had the good
fortune to come home and to tell the truth. Many soldiers, like Pat Tillman,
did not have that opportunity.

"The truth of war is not always easy. The truth is always more heroic than
the hype," she said.

Lynch became a celebrity after U.S. troops filmed what they said was a
daring raid on the hospital. Lynch, the Army claimed, was shot and stabbed
during a fierce gunbattle with Iraqi troops that left 11 of her comrades
dead.

Hospital staffers, however, said there were no Iraqi troops at the hospital
when the purported rescue took place.

It was later learned that Lynch never fired a shot during the firefight
because her gun was jammed with sand.

Before hearing Lynch's testimony, Waxman promised her and her family that
the committee would find "the source of the fabrications you had to endure."

[TheStripey1]

I wonder how many other families weren't told the truth about how their loved ones died...

It's despicable how these families have been treated. Those that run the pentagon should be ashamed.

Will they be?

nahhhhhhhhhhhhh... business as usual... then and now...

they neeeeeded to inspire the masses to enlist and so they made everyone a hero then... and now?

[manu1959]

this has happened in every war that has ever been fought....why is this suddenly a shock....

[darin]

It's not a shock - it's used to implicate the President; Plus, I get the feeling NeoLiberals LOVE when the Military looks bad. :(

[Gaffer]

So who else testified in this hearing. Any of Tillman's buddies that were there when he was killed? Any of Lynch's buddies that were captured with her? Are there any other people that were "lied" about? These were stories presented to the media to placate them and give them some hero's to concentrate instead of their usual backstabbing of the media.

Lynch's case was all media hype. Would like to her the real story from her. Tillman's case was a real tragedy. Would like to know the facts behind that too and who did what and why did they do it. The Tillman family are very credible.

[lily]

I wonder how many other families weren't told the truth about how their loved ones died...

It's despicable how these families have been treated. Those that run the pentagon should be ashamed.

Will they be?

nahhhhhhhhhhhhh... business as usual... then and now...

they neeeeeded to inspire the masses to enlist and so they made everyone a hero then... and now?


I remember when he enlisted and how the enlistments went up. He was considered a hero. Ok, I'm fine with that, people looked up to him and probably thought if Pat Tillman can give up a muli-million dollar contract to fight in a war, then maybe I should too....but then to deliberatly lie to his family is un-forgivable. To have his fellow soldiers threatend if they told the truth consequences would be had, is un-forgivable, burning his clothes and getting rid of all the evidence is un-forgivable. Not to mention the whole shebang they made up about Jessica Lynch.

[lily]

So who else testified in this hearing. Any of Tillman's buddies that were there when he was killed? Any of Lynch's buddies that were captured with her? Are there any other people that were "lied" about? These were stories presented to the media to placate them and give them some hero's to concentrate instead of their usual backstabbing of the media.

Lynch's case was all media hype. Would like to her the real story from her. Tillman's case was a real tragedy. Would like to know the facts behind that too and who did what and why did they do it. The Tillman family are very credible.


Then I would suggest you check and see if the hearings will be repeated tonight.

[lily]

this has happened in every war that has ever been fought....why is this suddenly a shock....

Why are you defending it?

[lily]

It's not a shock - it's used to implicate the President; Plus, I get the feeling NeoLiberals LOVE when the Military looks bad. :(


How on God's green earth did you come to this conclusion?

Yeah........we just sit and salavate waiting for something like this to happen.:tinfoil:

[gabosaurus]

Why are you defending it?

For the same reason that every stupid boneheaded Bush exploit is justified by "Clinton did it!" In the minds of these warped mentalities, two wrongs somehow make a right.

Right after Jessica Lynch came out the first time and talked about how her story was warped, the Bush apologists transformed her from "hero" to "terrorist sympathizer." By revealing how the military turned her story into propaganda, Lynch was "demoralizing" the remaining troops.
That is the way the Bush-era Pentagon works -- everything is a massive mindfuch. Individual decency is sacrificed to make the Bushies look good.

[OCA]

Translation:America=bad, military=evil

Anybody challenging these two on their words or do we just take them at their word?

I don't believe anybody anymore, I think everybody is compromised or saying things concerning Iraq for ulterior motives.

[OCA]

Why are you defending it?

He's not defending it, he's simply pointing out that war is a messy business, its not the video game you supposedly think it is, shit happens in war.

[gabosaurus]

A lot of "shit" happens in war. Most of it emanating from the Commander In Shit.

Military = good. Pentagon warlords = bad.
America = good. Assmunches currently in power = bad.
Bush apologists = clueless, bloodthirsty, braindead

[OCA]

A lot of "shit" happens in war. Most of it emanating from the Commander In Shit.

Military = good. Pentagon warlords = bad.
America = good. Assmunches currently in power = bad.
Bush apologists = clueless, bloodthirsty, braindead


Honey....too much acid in People's Park results in lib mindset, stay out of there, don't lick stamps anymore.

Pentagon warlords ROTFLMFAO! You got all the kook keywords down!

Assmunches currently power=doing a thankless job, governing a brainwashed public, making hard decisions that have to be made in best way possible.

[Gaffer]

It's all about Bush hating. What happens in a military action has nothing to do with Bush. He is NOT commanding the troops from his desk and directing every little fire fight. He give the orders to the generals of what he wants accomplished. They in turn give orders to their subordinates on how to accomplish it.

If someone does something wrong and someone tries to cover it up it's not Bush who is responsible for that action. He didn't and wouldn't order such things. He's viewing everything on a strategic level and doesn't get involved with the tactical end of things. Any wrongs done by individuals are purely that. And to blame the president for such things is silly and ignorant.

[lily]

He's not defending it, he's simply pointing out that war is a messy business, its not the video game you supposedly think it is, shit happens in war.

OCA.......I know that shit happens in war. I'm talking about covering up this man's death to further an agenda. I'm talking about making the story of Jessica Lynch out of nothing.

The suffering the family had to endure not once, when they were told their son had died and not even twice when they found out the real way he died, but three times and for years before they were told the truth. The way Lynch had to suffer, because no one would listen to her, when she said that is not the way things happended with her in Iraq, that she was not the hero that they made her out to be, nor was her rescue, but the real heros were the people that died in that ambush and the others that saved those they could.

[lily]

It's all about Bush hating. What happens in a military action has nothing to do with Bush. He is NOT commanding the troops from his desk and directing every little fire fight. He give the orders to the generals of what he wants accomplished. They in turn give orders to their subordinates on how to accomplish it.

If someone does something wrong and someone tries to cover it up it's not Bush who is responsible for that action. He didn't and wouldn't order such things. He's viewing everything on a strategic level and doesn't get involved with the tactical end of things. Any wrongs done by individuals are purely that. And to blame the president for such things is silly and ignorant.


Can you show me one post where I blamed Bush for this?

[gabosaurus]

http://www.allhatnocattle.net/bushMushroom.jpg

[lily]

Originally Posted by Gaffer
It's all about Bush hating. What happens in a military action has nothing to do with Bush. He is NOT commanding the troops from his desk and directing every little fire fight. He give the orders to the generals of what he wants accomplished. They in turn give orders to their subordinates on how to accomplish it.

If someone does something wrong and someone tries to cover it up it's not Bush who is responsible for that action. He didn't and wouldn't order such things. He's viewing everything on a strategic level and doesn't get involved with the tactical end of things. Any wrongs done by individuals are purely that. And to blame the president for such things is silly and ignorant.


Can you show me one post where I blamed Bush for this?


Gaffer, please disregard this post. I see what you are saying. Sometimes I forget I'm not the only one posting.

[Gunny]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/24/tillman.hearing/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Odd ... the Jessica Lynch version of history is exactly how I read it when it happened.

Military personnel get killed by friendly fire all the time. When there's no war, it's called "training accident." Just a fact of life for servicemembers.

If some dumbass tried to cover it up, then he should be held accountable for it.

Although this is just more "diggin' up bones."

[Gaffer]

Can you show me one post where I blamed Bush for this?


Gaffer, please disregard this post. I see what you are saying. Sometimes I forget I'm not the only one posting.

I was wondering what you meant. Your not in the class the other posters are.

[Gaffer]

The Tilman incident was covered up because of his noteriety. IMO they wanted to honor his name and his efforts and at the same time avoid the nasty media coverage that would come with the exposure of the events.Bad judgement on someones part.

Lynch's story was all for propaganda value and a way for the media to make a quick buck. They were casting the roles for the TV movie before hse was even home from iraq. The creative writers had a field day. In her case it was as much the media's fault as the government. The government got misinformation and the media exponded on it.

[Gunny]

The Tilman incident was covered up because of his noteriety. IMO they wanted to honor his name and his efforts and at the same time avoid the nasty media coverage that would come with the exposure of the events.Bad judgement on someones part.

Lynch's story was all for propaganda value and a way for the media to make a quick buck. They were casting the roles for the TV movie before hse was even home from iraq. The creative writers had a field day. In her case it was as much the media's fault as the government. The government got misinformation and the media exponded on it.

In the case of Lynch, the story I read pretty much was the same as what she is telling now.

And ITA in regard to Tillman. The media had made a hero of him already. Some PAO probably crapped his pants when he heard he was killed.

[Gaffer]

In the case of Lynch, the story I read pretty much was the same as what she is telling now.

And ITA in regard to Tillman. The media had made a hero of him already. Some PAO probably crapped his pants when he heard he was killed.

Yeah I'm thinking the same thing about Tillman.

I never saw the movie about Lynch but then I never watch madeup for tv movies anyway. She was just a media event and I think the pentagon decided to run with it.

[lily]

The Tilman incident was covered up because of his noteriety. IMO they wanted to honor his name and his efforts and at the same time avoid the nasty media coverage that would come with the exposure of the events.Bad judgement on someones part.

Lynch's story was all for propaganda value and a way for the media to make a quick buck. They were casting the roles for the TV movie before hse was even home from iraq. The creative writers had a field day. In her case it was as much the media's fault as the government. The government got misinformation and the media exponded on it.

Ok, I think I can agree with this. Now will you agree that both were wrong to do?

[Yurt]

Does the military have a duty to inform anyone, families included, how an enlisted member died? If they do, are there exceptions?

Is it possible that bringing all this up could help the enemy understand our combat manuevers? Curious about the duty if anyone knows.

[Gaffer]

Ok, I think I can agree with this. Now will you agree that both were wrong to do?

Oh absolutely. especially the Tillman case.

[Gunny]

Yeah I'm thinking the same thing about Tillman.

I never saw the movie about Lynch but then I never watch madeup for tv movies anyway. She was just a media event and I think the pentagon decided to run with it.

Maybe that's it .... I missed the movie. I only know what I read through the news.

[lily]

Oh absolutely. especially the Tillman case.


Works for me!

[manu1959]

Works for me!

you seem happy that your nations military made a mistake....

[loosecannon]

It's all about Bush hating. What happens in a military action has nothing to do with Bush. He is NOT commanding the troops from his desk and directing every little fire fight. He give the orders to the generals of what he wants accomplished. They in turn give orders to their subordinates on how to accomplish it.

If someone does something wrong and someone tries to cover it up it's not Bush who is responsible for that action. He didn't and wouldn't order such things. He's viewing everything on a strategic level and doesn't get involved with the tactical end of things. Any wrongs done by individuals are purely that. And to blame the president for such things is silly and ignorant.

Bogus.

The PR campaign traces back to the WH. The pres is asleep at the strategic level as evidenced by the redirection occuring after 4 years of the war failing.

The PR campaign has been alive and well since day one.

All PR and no content.

[lily]

you seem happy that your nations military made a mistake....


On the contrary, read my posts.

I'm happy that someone on the right agrees with me.......hey what can I say.......I'm easy.

[manu1959]

On the contrary, read my posts.

I'm happy that someone on the right agrees with me.......hey what can I say.......I'm easy.

yes you seem pleased when we find common ground.......pitty about both people....and everyone else that has gone through what they did....

[lily]

yes you seem pleased when we find common ground.......

I am. It makes it seem the chasm isn't as deep as I once thought.


pitty about both people....and everyone else that has gone through what they did....

I had to check to see if my other we agree was on another page. I wouldn't want the forum to go down or something. It was.........so we agree.:wink2:

[manu1959]

I am. It makes it seem the chasm isn't as deep as I once thought.
I had to check to see if my other we agree was on another page. I wouldn't want the forum to go down or something. It was.........so we agree.:wink2:

a lot of people want the gap to be big......for a nation that seems to be in the process of ruling out keeping score....playing tag or dodge ball.....we are awfull competitive in dividing the image of this nation.....

but it is true if we agree too much..... we could cause the end of the world.....as we currently know it.....

[lily]

but it is true if we agree too much..... we could cause the end of the world.....as we currently know it.....


Well, the end of the world seems overdramatic. I was more worried about the forum not being able to handle it and crashing.

[manu1959]

Well, the end of the world seems overdramatic. I was more worried about the forum not being able to handle it and crashing.

sorry you missed my point....the end of the "world" as it "exists" on the moment would not be all bad.....

[lily]

Ah........ok. My brain is tired.

Say goodnight Gracie.

[manu1959]

Ah........ok. My brain is tired.

Say goodnight Gracie.

good night gracie....btw...you promised to discuss israel and palestine.....and link me up to your left wing campsite....

[manu1959]

ok .... just saw the news...jessica lynch is hot an will be in playboy before the year is out.....:poke:

[lily]

Did she actually say she was going to be in Playboy.....or is that wishful thinking?

[Yurt]

Does the military have a duty to inform anyone, families included, how an enlisted member died? If they do, are there exceptions?

Is it possible that bringing all this up could help the enemy understand our combat manuevers? Curious about the duty if anyone knows.

This is a serious question if anyone knows.

[Gaffer]

This is a serious question if anyone knows.

The military doesn't make a habit of informing family how a soldier died, other than the basic killed in action. Or killed in an accident. The notifiers are not priveldge to that information. You have to research after action reports to get details on what happened and how people died. The only way to really know is talk to someone that was with them at the time and witnessed it.

Notification is always done by an officer and in person.

[stephanie]

What I find Sad...

Is why would the Tillman family and the Democrats want to sully Pat Tillmans name??
He was made out to be a hero in the media because he gave up a football contract to join.. and now what is he becoming to be know as???

Why should his case be so much more important than any of the men and women who sacrifice for our country?

Very Sad..:salute:

[lily]

You have to research after action reports to get details on what happened and how people died. The only way to really know is talk to someone that was with them at the time and witnessed it.

Notification is always done by an officer and in person.


Except all the people were told to lie.

[lily]

What I find Sad...

Is why would the Tillman family and the Democrats want to sully Pat Tillmans name??
He was made out to be a hero in the media because he gave up a football contract to join.. and now what is he becoming to be know as???

Why should his case be so much more important than any of the men and women who sacrifice for our country?

Very Sad..:salute:

I don't know if you're joking or not. It was the FAMILY that wanted to know the truth. As for what he's going to be known as now........he's still a hero. Nice try at trying to turn this into something that it's not.

[manu1959]

Except all the people were told to lie.

they were told not to say what happened.....

[stephanie]

I don't know if you're joking or not. It was the FAMILY that wanted to know the truth. As for what he's going to be known as now........he's still a hero. Nice try at trying to turn this into something that it's not.

I'm serious as a heart attack...
You can go snip at someone else heels..

This case was settled months ago..

Why are they bringing it up again????

[lily]

they were told not to say what happened.....


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june07/tillman_04-24.html


KWAME HOLMAN: Later, the committee heard from Army Specialist Bryan O'Neal.
He was with Tillman when he was killed by friendly fire. He said he was
ordered to keep quiet.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN: Within 72 hours, at least nine military officials knew or
were informed that Pat Tillman's death was a fratricide, including at least
three generals. Given that so many people in the military were informed so
quickly that this was fratricide, does it trouble you that the Tillman
family was kept in the dark about this for another month?

SPC. BRYAN O'NEAL, U.S. Army: Yes, sir, it does. I wanted right off the bat
to let the family know what had happened, especially Kevin, because I've
worked with him in the platoon. And I knew that him and the family both
needed or all needed to know what had happened.

And I was quite appalled that when I was actually able to speak with Kevin,
I was ordered not to tell him what happened, sir.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN: You were ordered not to tell them?

SPC. BRYAN O'NEAL: Roger that, sir.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN: By whom?

SPC. BRYAN O'NEAL: At that time, it was by our battalion commander,
Lieutenant Colonel Bailey, sir.

[lily]

I'm serious as a heart attack...
You can go snip at someone else heels..

Okie Dokie then.


This case was settled months ago..

Why are they bringing it up again????

Some people like his PARENTS want answers. I honestly don't think that is too much to ask.........hey but then you think it's all the Democrats fault...so what do I know?

[manu1959]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june07/tillman_04-24.html

if i told you not to say anything....am i asking you to lie or simply be quite.....if i ask you to tell adifferent story than what happened then i am asking you to lie the exact quote was....

I was ordered not to tell him what happened, sir.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN: You were ordered not to tell them?

SPC. BRYAN O'NEAL: Roger that, sir.

does not say he was asked to tell a differnt story....congress should ask better questions....these are lawyers afterall....or use to be or as my dad said those who can't be laywers become politicians....

[stephanie]

Okie Dokie then.



Some people like his PARENTS want answers. I honestly don't think that is too much to ask.........hey but then you think it's all the Democrats fault...so what do I know?

The parents already knows what happened..
Maybe it wasn't in the timely manner they wished..
But they were informed, and it was months ago..
So...why bring it up again???

It is the Democrats who is holding this hearing, isn't it??

So..........

[lily]

if i told you not to say anything....am i asking you to lie or simply be quite.....if i ask you to tell adifferent story than what happened then i am asking you to lie the exact quote was....

I was ordered not to tell him what happened, sir.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN: You were ordered not to tell them?

SPC. BRYAN O'NEAL: Roger that, sir.

does not say he was asked to tell a differnt story....congress should ask better questions....these are lawyers afterall....or use to be or as my dad said those who can't be laywers become politicians....

Manu you're changing what you said. You said they were told not to say what happened, so I got the quote that showed that no, he was ordered not to say what happened. Being told and being ordered by your commanding officer is two totally different things. Now I have to know if I have to go look for more testimony that this soldier made about how he wanted to tell Kevin what happened? I think I've debated with you long enough not to be splitting hairs also this isn't addressing the cover up that the army did.

[lily]

The parents already knows what happened..
Maybe it wasn't in the timely manner they wished..
But they were informed, and it was months ago..
So...why bring it up again???

It is the Democrats who is holding this hearing, isn't it??

So..........

1. Because some people want the whole truth, which it seems can only be obtained by testifying under oath and on the record.
2. To find out who is responsible.
3 To make sure it doesn't happen again.........but if you want to think the Democrats are just wasting their time and our money, then don't let me stop you........blame away......but please include the Republican members of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, ok?

[manu1959]

Manu you're changing what you said. You said they were told not to say what happened, so I got the quote that showed that no, he was ordered not to say what happened. Being told and being ordered by your commanding officer is two totally different things. Now I have to know if I have to go look for more testimony that this soldier made about how he wanted to tell Kevin what happened? I think I've debated with you long enough not to be splitting hairs also this isn't addressing the cover up that the army did.

i only asked a question and made an observation....it would seem based on what you posted that he was simply told not to say anything.....

just out of curiosity why does it matter how he died? why does it matter if the military decided to go silent?.....the press assumed he was killed in a fire fight.....if one goes silent are the lying?

[lily]

[QUOTE=manu1959;46796]

just out of curiosity why does it matter how he died?

Exactly......everyone knows that friendly fire happens.....so why did they lie and cover it up?



why does it matter if the military decided to go silent?.....the press assumed he was killed in a fire fight.....if one goes silent are the lying?

It matters because they used him, which was fine when he enlisted, but to keep on using him, having his commanding officers there at the funeral, the funeral being shown live on TV, perpetuating that lie is for lack of a better word, sinful. I may be old fashioned and thankfully I've never lost a child, but I can't imagine going through that grief, then finding out I was lied to and going through even more grief........don't you think that the parents if not the citizens of this country deserve answers, just so it doesn't happen to another family?

[Psychoblues]

FWIW, lilly, the Tillman family or even Jessica Lynch in her situation do not KNOW all that has been officially said and reported concerning their respective incidents. They both know for sure that the chickenhawks have told numerous lies, covered them up and told even more about the coverups and there still is no justice or real understanding of their plights.



[QUOTE] It matters because they used him, which was fine when he enlisted, but to keep on using him, having his commanding officers there at the funeral, the funeral being shown live on TV, perpetuating that lie is for lack of a better word, sinful. I may be old fashioned and thankfully I've never lost a child, but I can't imagine going through that grief, then finding out I was lied to and going through even more grief........don't you think that the parents if not the citizens of this country deserve answers, just so it doesn't happen to another family?

Exactly......everyone knows that friendly fire happens.....so why did they lie and cover it up?

This country needed genuine heroes at the time of all those lies and they didn't have the kind they were looking for so they fabricated them for political purposes. Jessica Lynch told the truth in the hearing. The Tillman family shared what they know and asked about what they don't know and still don't know. Pat Tillman and Jessica Lynch are GENUINE American Heroes. Americans need to know about what happened to them. People lied, some are still telling lies, others are obfuscating, others are ducking, dodging and hoping they will never be discovered.


I'm like you, lily. I think Jessica, the Tillmans and we as Americans are entitled to the truth.

[Psychoblues]

Pat Tillman was not awarded a posthumous Siver Star based on a "friendly fire" incident, m59.




i only asked a question and made an observation....it would seem based on what you posted that he was simply told not to say anything.....

just out of curiosity why does it matter how he died? why does it matter if the military decided to go silent?.....the press assumed he was killed in a fire fight.....if one goes silent are the lying?

As you read more hoefully you will absorb and understand more.

[Gaffer]

My opinion as to why this is being brought up again, months later....politics. The dems want to use Tillman as a victim. His family justifiably wants answers and have every right to go after those answers and the military needs to provide those answers. The Lynch story is a non-issue. But they are looking for a victim. There are no draftees to be used as victims in this war so the dems and media search constantly for military people they can point to as victims.

want to know how I come to this conclusion, look at who's doing what, where and when.

[stephanie]

My opinion as to why this is being brought up again, months later....politics. The dems want to use Tillman as a victim. His family justifiably wants answers and have every right to go after those answers and the military needs to provide those answers. The Lynch story is a non-issue. But they are looking for a victim. There are no draftees to be used as victims in this war so the dems and media search constantly for military people they can point to as victims.

want to know how I come to this conclusion, look at who's doing what, where and when.

Sad to say.....I agree
That's why I posted what I did..

[Psychoblues]

But, isn't the Tillman family entitled to the truth they have begged for and still don't have? Isn't Jessica Lynch entitled to live her so far innocent life without the estigma of a national lie perpetrated by who knows who and having to explain time after time that the understanding was all based on lies and nothing she ever did or said?

Some of you people don't understand a damn thing about what all those lies told by otherwise respectable people represent to the unwilling victims of those lies. No Democrat ever tried to victimize Pat or Jessica. They are trying to help the reputations and the families by exposing the truths and supporting the wishes for the aforementioned individuals.

Let truth ring as loud as the Liberty Bell.