If ObamaCare DOES pass, what should each of us do?

[Little-Acorn]

There's lots of debate over whether the Fed Govt should take over Health Care, and to what extent, etc.

Well, suppose it does happen. What do we do then?

Several proposals are out there. Most seem to have several things in common:

1.) Health care insurance will now be mandatory for everyone. If you don't want to sign up, you will be assessed a fine, maybe around the level of $700 per year.

2.) Employers will also face a similar choice. It might depend on how many employees they have. They can either provide insurance for their employees, or they can pay a similar fine to the government for each employee they DON'T insure.

3.) All insurance companies will be required to offer insurance that complies with new government standards, including to anyone who has a pre-existing condition. People who want to sign up, who already have a condition the insurance must pay for (broken arm, diabetes, cancer, other long-term chronic condition etc.), cannot be refused coverage due to that pre-existing condition.

Everyone wants, naturally, to minimize the costs they have to pay, while maintaining sufficient security in case bad things happen.

With these factors in mind, it becomes clear what companies must do, and what each individual should do.

A) We should each drop our present health insurance, as soon as possible. It will cost less to simply pay the annual fine. If you're getting your health insurance thru your employer, negotiate with them to start paying the amount they spend on your policy, directly to you in your paycheck instead. You might find that your employer is soon dropping ALL insurance policies, since it will cost them less to pay their fine too.

B) If/when you incur some major medical problem, THEN go to an insurance company and sign up. The problem you came down with, is now a pre-existing condition... but under the new rules, the insurance company cannot refuse you. They will sign you up for the normal coverage, on the spot, and most of your expenses will be paid for. You will pay the normal premiums during the time they are paying for your medical care, which are far less than your paying for the care yourself.

C) When your condition is cured, drop the insurance, go back to paying only the annual fine (which is much less than the premiums) and wait for the next major malady to come along. If one comes, then sign up for insurance again, after it's diagnosed. Again, they cannot refuse you.

This will get you the security of being able to have insurance pay for anything bad that comes along, while minimizing the amount you have to pay. A win-win situation all around, wouldn't you say?

Of course, how this system will be able to support itself, with basically nobody paying premiums (except the relatively small fine) until they have a condition where they will draw out much more than they pay in, might be a problem. But it's not YOUR problem. Government is handling it. Let them worry.

Comments/questions?

[SassyLady]

There's lots of debate over whether the Fed Govt should take over Health Care, and to what extent, etc.

Well, suppose it does happen. What do we do then?

Several proposals are out there. Most seem to have several things in common:

1.) Health care insurance will now be mandatory for everyone. If you don't want to sign up, you will be assessed a fine, maybe around the level of $700 per year.

2.) Employers will also face a similar choice. It might depend on how many employees they have. They can either provide insurance for their employees, or they can pay a similar fine to the government for each employee they DON'T insure.

3.) All insurance companies will be required to offer insurance that complies with new government standards, including to anyone who has a pre-existing condition. People who want to sign up, who already have a condition the insurance must pay for (broken arm, diabetes, cancer, other long-term chronic condition etc.), cannot be refused coverage due to that pre-existing condition.

Everyone wants, naturally, to minimize the costs they have to pay, while maintaining sufficient security in case bad things happen.

With these factors in mind, it becomes clear what companies must do, and what each individual should do.

A) We should each drop our present health insurance, as soon as possible. It will cost less to simply pay the annual fine. If you're getting your health insurance thru your employer, negotiate with them to start paying the amount they spend on your policy, directly to you in your paycheck instead. You might find that your employer is soon dropping ALL insurance policies, since it will cost them less to pay their fine too.

B) If/when you incur some major medical problem, THEN go to an insurance company and sign up. The problem you came down with, is now a pre-existing condition... but under the new rules, the insurance company cannot refuse you. They will sign you up for the normal coverage, on the spot, and most of your expenses will be paid for. You will pay the normal premiums during the time they are paying for your medical care, which are far less than your paying for the care yourself.

C) When your condition is cured, drop the insurance, go back to paying only the annual fine (which is much less than the premiums) and wait for the next major malady to come along. If one comes, then sign up for insurance again, after it's diagnosed.

This will get you the security of being able to have insurance pay for anything bad that comes along, while minimizing the amount you have to pay. A win-win situation all around, wouldn't you say?

Of course, how this system will be able to support itself, with basically nobody paying premiums (except the relatively small fine) until they have a condition where they will draw out much more than they pay in, might be a problem. But it's not YOUR problem. Government is handling it. Let them worry.

Comments/questions?

This was exactly the conclusion I came to. Why pay premiums for what hasn't happened when you can sign up after it happens. You asked how the system will support itself..........unless the government puts a cap on how much the companies can charge they will probably charge a "premium" charge for anyone who DOES have an existing condition. They can't turn you down, but they might have a special "pre-existing condition" premium plan.

[LiberalNation]

rejoice, things have just gotten better.

[Abbey Marie]

We're screwed.

[darin]

LN - honey....you are talking out of your ass. I love you, but you are so f'ing naive. READ the bill. READ about FREEDOM and SOCIALISM.

Yesterday I got an MRI ordered at 11am, 11P it was done. Try that under gov't influenced/regulated care.

bah! I wanna choke you (lovingly - not in a serious way) and shake you around a bit in hopes of opening your eyes to the tyrany, fascism and life-destroying power our "leaders" are thrusting on us. They are raping the very people, in a certain way, who put them in power...and drones like you praise them for it.

I'm going to apologize to you right now because I know i'm being a bit of a dick - I DONT want to hurt or insult you. I want you to remove the scales over your eyes and see TRUTH, however.

[Little-Acorn]

I want you to remove the scales over your eyes and see TRUTH, however.

Uh-oh.

You can be certain that such scale removal is the one thing that will NEVER be covered under ObamaCare.

[DragonStryk72]

rejoice, things have just gotten better.

how?

[Little-Acorn]

how?

People like LN never worry themselves about "How?".

Obama and the other leftists have said they're better. That's good enough for LN.

[KarlMarx]

rejoice, things have just gotten better.
I have relatives in Italy, which also has socialized medicine... there isn't much to be happy about. My uncle almost died from a condition he had because he was sent home repeatedly by the doctors because he "wasn't sick enough".

Hospitalization means that your family provides the sheets, pillows and even meals. If you don't have someone to provide those things for you, you're screwed.

Even if socialized medicine were the best idea on the planet.. we simply cannot afford it. A trillion plus dollars a year, just as a downpayment for this catastrophe... we are already up to our eyeballs in debt... tell me just where is this money going to come from?

[namvet]

play it by ear. don't work out.......... hello foreign country

[HogTrash]

Stay Healthy!

[hjmick]

Sue.

[LiberalNation]

old people get drugs from canada for a reason. Even your love child sarah palin admitted to sneaking into canada for cheap healthcare. The insurance companies are jacked, why not try something new.

Exhibit A: humana just had massive layoffs yet ceo can still get a huge bonus. He makes more than $300,000 a week.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Humana-CEO-compensation-for-apf-2649654906.html?x=0&.v=4

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- Health insurer Humana Inc. paid CEO Michael B. McCallister 26 percent more last year than in 2008, largely because of a $1.8 million performance-related bonus.

McCallister, 57, received compensation valued at $6.5 million for 2009, according to an Associated Press analysis of a proxy statement filed Tuesday.

That included a salary of about $1 million, the bonus and stock and options valued at $3.4 million when they were granted.

McCallister's compensation also included $164,380 for retirement savings, matching charitable contributions, insurance and other perquisites plus $132,848 worth of personal use of company aircraft. McCallister, who also serves as president, has been CEO since 2000. Humana is based in Louisville, Ky.

Humana's profit grew 61 percent in 2009 compared to 2008, when the company's performance investment income fell and claim expenses from its stand-alone Medicare prescription drug plans rose.

[LiberalNation]

also if I wasn't in college I wouldn't have healthcare and still the copays are quite large.

[Little-Acorn]

also if I wasn't in college I wouldn't have healthcare and still the copays are quite large.

Emergency rooms refuse you when you go there?

Or are you just handing us yet another lie?

[LiberalNation]

no but they'll send you a massive bill to put you into debt for life.

[Little-Acorn]

no but they'll send you a massive bill to put you into debt for life.

So you were handing us a lie.

Thanks for clearing that up.

And since you're qualified for inexpensive Major-Medical-type policies, I guess you're fibbing about getting "massive bills" and being "put into debt for life" too?

[crin63]

My son just had surgery. The hospital charge was $82,000 but because his insurance has a contract with the hospital the allowable amount was $22,000.

For the Liberals, that's a $60,000.00 savings because of that nasty insurance company.

After the insurance company paid its part my son still had $4500 left to pay.

He pays $91/mo for his insurance and has a $2500 deductible. He will end up making interest free payments to hospital over the next year to pay off the $4500.

[KarlMarx]

no but they'll send you a massive bill to put you into debt for life.
Speaking of being in debt for the rest of your life (and beyond....)

The federal debt is now at 12.5 Trillion dollars... our GDP is approximately 15 Trillion dollars... the federal debt is 83% of GDP (btw. it would take you 34,000 years to spend this much money at the rate of a million dollars a day) oh... and GDP is the sum of all goods and services produced in this country in a single year

The government will pay165 billion dollars this year just to pay the interest on that debt

Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are $695 Billion, $453 Billion, and $290 Billion this year (that is 1.5 Trillion dollars).... these three items will increase tremendously in the coming years as baby boomers start to retire.

consider that the deficits we are now running this year, the federal deficit is 1.3 Trillion dollars, which means that the federal debt will be 1.3 Trillion dollars larger next year.

Obama care will add about a Trillion dollars more to the federal budget...

So, now, tell me.... how do you propose we pay for this??????

[DragonStryk72]

old people get drugs from canada for a reason. Even your love child sarah palin admitted to sneaking into canada for cheap healthcare. The insurance companies are jacked, why not try something new.

Exhibit A: humana just had massive layoffs yet ceo can still get a huge bonus. He makes more than $300,000 a week.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Humana-CEO-compensation-for-apf-2649654906.html?x=0&.v=4

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- Health insurer Humana Inc. paid CEO Michael B. McCallister 26 percent more last year than in 2008, largely because of a $1.8 million performance-related bonus.

McCallister, 57, received compensation valued at $6.5 million for 2009, according to an Associated Press analysis of a proxy statement filed Tuesday.

That included a salary of about $1 million, the bonus and stock and options valued at $3.4 million when they were granted.

McCallister's compensation also included $164,380 for retirement savings, matching charitable contributions, insurance and other perquisites plus $132,848 worth of personal use of company aircraft. McCallister, who also serves as president, has been CEO since 2000. Humana is based in Louisville, Ky.

Humana's profit grew 61 percent in 2009 compared to 2008, when the company's performance investment income fell and claim expenses from its stand-alone Medicare prescription drug plans rose.

Note that you're not saying they stayed for the healthcare. See, the problem is that the cost of living jumps, along with the taxes. Also, our government is not set up for it, so we will end up with shitty public healthcare, which in many cases, is worse than no healthcare.

[cat slave]

Stay Healthy!

Learn to use herbs, homeoapathy and try to disappear.

[Noir]

My son just had surgery. The hospital charge was $82,000 but because his insurance has a contract with the hospital the allowable amount was $22,000.

For the Liberals, that's a $60,000.00 savings because of that nasty insurance company.

After the insurance company paid its part my son still had $4500 left to pay.

He pays $91/mo for his insurance and has a $2500 deductible. He will end up making interest free payments to hospital over the next year to pay off the $4500.

$4500!!!
But thats still loads lol, like its great that its come down from $88k, but 4.5K is still allot,

Obviously i'm under socialised healthcare (the NHS) and while its not amazing its certainly not a mess either, but like under the system we have i pay National Insurance to cover health costs (back when i was earning about £150 per week about £2-3 was taken in NI) Now obviously i'm young and still have special tax breaks, but like everyone under 16 does not pay for any medical or dental bills, and if you continue on with education then that stays until you are 19 (afterwhich you do pay a subsidised rate for dental bills or you can chose to go private)

And it doesn't matter if you're in and out of the hospital every other week or once a year, you pay the same NI rates (as a % of your income) and then once you get over 65 years old you get free prescription drugs.

Now i understand the downfalls of our current system, and yours, and i don't think its wise that you guys switch to our system, however, it still amazes me when i see figures like $4.5K for medical bills,

[Insein]

$4500!!!
But thats still loads lol, like its great that its come down from $88k, but 4.5K is still allot,

Obviously i'm under socialised healthcare (the NHS) and while its not amazing its certainly not a mess either, but like under the system we have i pay National Insurance to cover health costs (back when i was earning about £150 per week about £2-3 was taken in NI) Now obviously i'm young and still have special tax breaks, but like everyone under 16 does not pay for any medical or dental bills, and if you continue on with education then that stays until you are 19 (afterwhich you do pay a subsidised rate for dental bills or you can chose to go private)

And it doesn't matter if you're in and out of the hospital every other week or once a year, you pay the same NI rates (as a % of your income) and then once you get over 65 years old you get free prescription drugs.

Now i understand the downfalls of our current system, and yours, and i don't think its wise that you guys switch to our system, however, it still amazes me when i see figures like $4.5K for medical bills,

The reason its $88k down to $4500 is due to the ridiculous liability premiums that have to be added to anything a hospital or doctor's office does. They have to milk every patient for money to make up for the one or two that will undoubtedly sue for ridiculous sums of money. The other reason for the high premiums is because there is no competition across state lines. Unlike car insurance and homeowners insurance that will allow an out of state company to insure the properties, Health insurance does not. These 2 things alone could be reformed without smashing the whole system.

The main problem with health insurance in our country is government regulation. Now to solve that the government wants to stop regulating it and just run it themselves. Does that make sense? Government is the problem so we will solve it with more government.

[LiberalNation]

Speaking of being in debt for the rest of your life (and beyond....)

The federal debt is now at 12.5 Trillion dollars... our GDP is approximately 15 Trillion dollars... the federal debt is 83% of GDP (btw. it would take you 34,000 years to spend this much money at the rate of a million dollars a day) oh... and GDP is the sum of all goods and services produced in this country in a single year

The government will pay165 billion dollars this year just to pay the interest on that debt

Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are $695 Billion, $453 Billion, and $290 Billion this year (that is 1.5 Trillion dollars).... these three items will increase tremendously in the coming years as baby boomers start to retire.

consider that the deficits we are now running this year, the federal deficit is 1.3 Trillion dollars, which means that the federal debt will be 1.3 Trillion dollars larger next year.

Obama care will add about a Trillion dollars more to the federal budget...

So, now, tell me.... how do you propose we pay for this??????

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703936804575108080266520738.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopOpinion

Many people are worried that the health-care reform proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats will fail to bend the "cost curve." A number of commentators are urging no votes because of this, and Republicans have asked the president to start health reform over, focusing squarely on the issue of cost reduction.

These calls overlook the actual legislation. Over the past year of debate, 10 broad ideas have been offered for bending the health-care cost curve. The Democrats' proposed legislation incorporates virtually every one of them. Here they are:

• Form insurance exchanges. These would help curb underwriting and inefficient ...

Here's how:

Full credit:
1. Forming insurance exchanges
2. Reforming Medicare Advantage
3. Value-based payment for Medicare
4. Creating an independent Medicare advisory board
5. Fighting Medicare fraud
6. Investing in IT
Partial credit:
7. Prevention programs
8. A tax on high-value insurance plans
9. Malpractice reform

[Kathianne]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703936804575108080266520738.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopOpinion

Many people are worried that the health-care reform proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats will fail to bend the "cost curve." A number of commentators are urging no votes because of this, and Republicans have asked the president to start health reform over, focusing squarely on the issue of cost reduction.

These calls overlook the actual legislation. Over the past year of debate, 10 broad ideas have been offered for bending the health-care cost curve. The Democrats' proposed legislation incorporates virtually every one of them. Here they are:

• Form insurance exchanges. These would help curb underwriting and inefficient ...

Here's how:

Full credit:
1. Forming insurance exchanges
2. Reforming Medicare Advantage
3. Value-based payment for Medicare
4. Creating an independent Medicare advisory board
5. Fighting Medicare fraud
6. Investing in IT
Partial credit:
7. Prevention programs
8. A tax on high-value insurance plans
9. Malpractice reform


If those were the focus of the bill, it wouldn't need to be close to 3k pages long. There's no good reason that 'reforms' aren't put in with simple bills, that can be read be read and understood by most. We might act actually see some slow down of costs in that instance.

It's not what is happening.

[KarlMarx]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703936804575108080266520738.html?m od=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopOpinion



How about these reforms that won't cost the government much?

1. Tax exempt Health Savings Accounts for everyone. This will also help to increase the savings rate of Americans which is at an abysmal 5% of income. It will also make capital available for investment.

2. TORT REFORM... one thing that you and I both agree on. In addition, pass laws that revoke contingency fees for lawyers in litigation cases and replace them with a flat hourly fee instead. Also, change the criteria for awarding litigation cases from "a proponderance of evidence" to "beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt" as in criminal cases.

3. Revoke all legislation that prevents people from buying insurance across state lines. This will help increase competition and decrease prices for people overall. A similar situation happened with AT&T. When it was a monopoly, phone rates were high now phone service is cheap. For instance, my parents can call Italy at the rate of $0.05 a minute. In 1968, a similar phone call cost $3 a minute ... in 1968 dollars... that's the equivalent of $10 a minute today.

If you *really* want to reform health care, you would consider these steps first .... however, the UnHoly Trinity of Pelosi, Reid and Obama aren't interested in reform... they are interested in control, over you and how you make your health care choices...

BTW... I find it interesting that people who pride themselves in being pro-choice when it comes to reproductive "rights" are against choice when it comes to everyone else's health care!

[red states rule]

There is going to be ONE shot at repealing this bill. The tax increases start at once - while the "benefits" of Obamacare start in 2013

If Dems ram this thru, the voters must elect a CONSERVATIVE President in 2012 and maintain a majority in both the House and Senate so this tax bill can be reversed

If conservatives do not step up to the plate, then we are screwed. Once Obamacare makes it past a conservative President it will never be repealed.

[red states rule]

rejoice, things have just gotten better.

Why would you be happy? You are to cheap to pay a soda tax to stay healthy - what will do when you get the bill for Obamacare?

[LiberalNation]

There's no good reason that 'reforms' aren't put in with simple bills, that can be read be read and understood by most. We might act actually see some slow down of costs in that instance.
yes there is, all bills are long because of all the legal jargon, amendments, specifications.

[red states rule]

yes there is, all bills are long because of all the legal jargon, amendments, specifications.

Pelosi told us how we the people - who are going to pay for Obamacare - can find out what is in the bill

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[Kathianne]

yes there is, all bills are long because of all the legal jargon, amendments, specifications.

Haven't read many bills, have you?

[red states rule]

Haven't read many bills, have you?

Who has read the bill? Obama, Reid, and Pelosi are not letting anyone read the bill. They do not want anyone to know what is in it

[red states rule]

One of the faces of the hard core left - and a huge Obama supporter - tells America where Obama went wrong

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[crin63]

$4500!!!
But thats still loads lol, like its great that its come down from $88k, but 4.5K is still allot,

Obviously i'm under socialised healthcare (the NHS) and while its not amazing its certainly not a mess either, but like under the system we have i pay National Insurance to cover health costs (back when i was earning about £150 per week about £2-3 was taken in NI) Now obviously i'm young and still have special tax breaks, but like everyone under 16 does not pay for any medical or dental bills, and if you continue on with education then that stays until you are 19 (afterwhich you do pay a subsidised rate for dental bills or you can chose to go private)

And it doesn't matter if you're in and out of the hospital every other week or once a year, you pay the same NI rates (as a % of your income) and then once you get over 65 years old you get free prescription drugs.

Now i understand the downfalls of our current system, and yours, and i don't think its wise that you guys switch to our system, however, it still amazes me when i see figures like $4.5K for medical bills,

My son is 20 years old, single, works 2 jobs and is a full time college student. He still has time for a social life as well as the gym every day. He has absolutely no problem with paying the $7000.00 that his surgery cost him out of pocket. He pays his way in life for what he wants and what he does.

$7000 is the maximum he has to pay annually for medical based on his $91 a month premium. We could have reduced his annual maximum out of pocket expense by spending more money on his monthly premium.

Since he reached the $7000 maximum out of pocket during his surgery he won't have to pay for any other medical the rest of 2010.

[Noir]

My son is 20 years old, single, works 2 jobs and is a full time college student. He still has time for a social life as well as the gym every day. He has absolutely no problem with paying the $7000.00 that his surgery cost him out of pocket. He pays his way in life for what he wants and what he does.

$7000 is the maximum he has to pay annually for medical based on his $91 a month premium. We could have reduced his annual maximum out of pocket expense by spending more money on his monthly premium.

Since he reached the $7000 maximum out of pocket during his surgery he won't have to pay for any other medical the rest of 2010.

Well i still see that as a massive amount of money to throw around the neck of a 20 year old out of the blue and i would hate to live under such a health system, i mean, i'm reluctant enough to go to hospitals and i've already paid for them. To go in with the knowledge that i could be walking out with lord knows what debt would keep me well clear of them.

[red states rule]

Well i still see that as a massive amount of money to throw around the neck of a 20 year old out of the blue and i would hate to live under such a health system, i mean, i'm reluctant enough to go to hospitals and i've already paid for them. To go in with the knowledge that i could be walking out with lord knows what debt would keep me well clear of them.

Meanwhile, the Dems are tying a huge bill around the necks of the next three generations

Dems actually think taking the profit motive out of health care is a good thing

[crin63]

Well i still see that as a massive amount of money to throw around the neck of a 20 year old out of the blue and i would hate to live under such a health system, i mean, i'm reluctant enough to go to hospitals and i've already paid for them. To go in with the knowledge that i could be walking out with lord knows what debt would keep me well clear of them.

No offense intended or implied. I raised my son to be a productive member of society instead of a burden on society. I raised him to work hard and earn what he gets. Not expect someone else to give it to him.

I don't worry about my children finding jobs in this California economy because they can pretty much get whatever jobs they want. Even my 15 year old daughter has a part time job working at a chiropractors office. They were trained to work hard, respect those above them, communicate effectively and give them 8 hours work for 8 pay while having a great attitude about it. They appreciate what they get because they work hard for it.

I let him live at home for free because I want him to stay as long as he wants too. He pays for all his own expenses including financing his own car. He is working on building his credit rating right now as well.

[avatar4321]

Stay Healthy!

Easier said than done.

[red states rule]

and of course not only will millions lose their jobs, and face rationed care - but the tax increases will further slow the economy and make the economic conditons much worse




Senate Health Bill Would Up Costs for Millions in Middle Class, Analysis Finds

A nonpartisan study is casting new doubt on President Obama's campaign pledge not to raise taxes on the middle class.

The Senate health care bill crucial to saving President Obama's signature domestic initiative will hit the wallets of a quarter of all Americans making less than $200,000 per year, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Joint Tax Committee that assessed the way the bill would hit taxpayers directly through new taxes and fees and indirectly through taxes levied on health care providers and passed on to consumers.

The committee also determined that the bill would subsidized insurance premiums for 7 percent of taxpayers -- about 13 million people -- while some 73 million people would face higher costs from the new fees and taxes.

The potential tax increases in the bill could pose significant problems for the president as he makes his final push for health care reform because he promised to protect middle-class Americans from any tax hikes. Republicans already are pouncing on the committee's analysis.

"For every family that gets some benefit from this program, in other words, a premium subsidy, three families are going to get a tax increase and those three families obviously include the bulk of people you'd call middle class America," Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, told Fox News.

Democratic leaders are scrambling to gather enough votes to pass the bill in the House later this month so that changes House members want can be added in the Senate through reconciliation, an unusual tactic that allows a simple majority in the Senate to counteract a filibuster by the minority. The steps are part of Obama's final push to pass a comprehensive health care reform bill.

The analysis comes as the Congressional Budget Office updated its cost tally of the Senate bill, estimating that the last-minute changes made to the bill before it was passed Christmas Eve upped the price to $875 billion, from $871 billion. The CBO also estimates that the bill would reduce the federal deficit by $118 billion over a 10 year period, revised down from $132 billion.

But the projection could be undermined by future spending needed to administer parts of the bill, including up to $10 billion for the IRS, up to $20 billion for Health and Human Services and up to $50 billion for "grant programs and other provisions."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/11/senate-health-care-raises-taxes-middle-class-analysis-finds/

[cat slave]

And eliminate the problems of retiring baby boomers and
their parents. Let them die from rationed health care.

Wonder if thats part of the plan? Wouldnt doubt it.

[Cap'n Chew]

Rush Limbaugh had a suggestion for what he'd do, go to Costa Rica for health care.

You know, the same Costa Rica that has a national health insurance program, the same Costa Rica whose overall health care system is much closer to "socialized medicine" than ours is, even after the reform bill passes and all of its policies take effect.

[Dang Straight]

L N I am all for trying something new. ObambaCare isn't one of them. Now tell me, you seem to have a great deal of knowledge about Obamba and his Great Health Care Experiment, what happens when you find out it's everything it wasn't?

Our HCS is far from perfect, but what Obamba and his fellow Dummycrats are offering is now going to improve it.

[cat slave]

If those dirt bags pass this horrendous bill they should be
made to use it.

I continue to be amazed at the idiocy of libs. Reality is
unnecessary to the plot....just ideologies and elitism
are the only conditions needed to be a lib. A simple
organism!!!!!

[cat slave]

L N I am all for trying something new. ObambaCare isn't one of them. Now tell me, you seem to have a great deal of knowledge about Obamba and his Great Health Care Experiment, what happens when you find out it's everything it wasn't?

Our HCS is far from perfect, but what Obamba and his fellow Dummycrats are offering is now going to improve it.


Love your avatar!!!!

[Dang Straight]

Love your avatar!!!!

:wink2:

[NightTrain]

Even your love child sarah palin admitted to sneaking into canada for cheap healthcare.

You, child, are full of shit.

[Noir]

No offense intended or implied. I raised my son to be a productive member of society instead of a burden on society. I raised him to work hard and earn what he gets. Not expect someone else to give it to him.

I don't worry about my children finding jobs in this California economy because they can pretty much get whatever jobs they want. Even my 15 year old daughter has a part time job working at a chiropractors office. They were trained to work hard, respect those above them, communicate effectively and give them 8 hours work for 8 pay while having a great attitude about it. They appreciate what they get because they work hard for it.

I let him live at home for free because I want him to stay as long as he wants too. He pays for all his own expenses including financing his own car. He is working on building his credit rating right now as well.

I don't really see how that matters in this debate, whether under social healthcare or not your son would still be of the same productivity. All I was saying is that if I got lumped with a bill for a couple of thousand pounds right no, compleltly out of the blue it would screw me seven ways from Sunday, and tge thought of that happening would likly keep me away from hospitals altogether.

[LuvRPgrl]

no but they'll send you a massive bill to put you into debt for life.

On the other hand, if you cant afford, or dont want health insurance, the govt will fine you. If you dont pay the fine, they send you to prison.

NICE

[Kathianne]

On the other hand, if you cant afford, or dont want health insurance, the govt will fine you. If you dont pay the fine, they send you to prison.

NICE

The government has no business telling us what we MUST BUY or from whom, especially since they want it to be "Daddy Sam."

Even the young people are going up in arms over this, many are choosing not to buy insurance for reasons based upon logic. They should have the right to do so.

[Dang Straight]

The government has no business telling us what we MUST BUY or from whom, especially since they want it to be "Daddy Sam."

Even the young people are going up in arms over this, many are choosing not to buy insurance for reasons based upon logic. They should have the right to do so.

I see where you are coming from, but answer this, if a young person decides not to have health insurance, get sick or injured with/by something major, who gets to pick up the tab?

This isn't an endorsement for ObamaCare, but one of the problems we are faced with today.........

[red states rule]

I see where you are coming from, but answer this, if a young person decides not to have health insurance, get sick or injured with/by something major, who gets to pick up the tab?

This isn't an endorsement for ObamaCare, but one of the problems we are faced with today.........

Who says the young person does not? The same with the rich. Are you going to force someone like Rush Limbaugh (who does pay cash for office vistis and surgery) to buy Obamacare?

Are you going to force people who are currently eligible for existing government programs, to buy Obamacare

What about illegals? You know damn well they will get benefits under this plan? Do you support taxpayers paying for their coverage when they have no legal right to be in the country?

[Dang Straight]

You, child, are full of shit.

LN may be full of shit, but what was said was accurate.................happened in the 60's

[Nukeman]

LN may be full of shit, but what was said was accurate.................happened in the 60's

Rally!!! The 60's.... How old again is Sarah Palin!!!!!!??????Would she have been the one to make the decision??? Or was it her parents!!!!

[Dang Straight]

Rally!!! The 60's.... How old again is Sarah Palin!!!!!!??????Would she have been the one to make the decision??? Or was it her parents!!!!

My bad, was her parents, not her...............

[Dang Straight]

Who says the young person does not? The same with the rich. Are you going to force someone like Rush Limbaugh (who does pay cash for office vistis and surgery) to buy Obamacare?

Are you going to force people who are currently eligible for existing government programs, to buy Obamacare

What about illegals? You know damn well they will get benefits under this plan? Do you support taxpayers paying for their coverage when they have no legal right to be in the country?

To the first part............ No one should be forced to buy health insurance if they can pay cash. But on the other hand why should my rates go up to pay for those that can't and use the system?

To the second part.......If you have existing ins. via a government program ie: Medicare no you shouldn't be forced in to ObamaCare.

To the third part.......... Herd them up and ship them home. But our Politicians don't seem to be bothered by it. Nor do I agree with the taxpayer providing FREE health care to the the dead beats and lazy asses.

[red states rule]

To the first part............ No one should be forced to buy health insurance if they can pay cash. But on the other hand why should my rates go up to pay for those that can't and use the system?

To the second part.......If you have existing ins. via a government program ie: Medicare no you shouldn't be forced in to ObamaCare.

To the third part.......... Herd them up and ship them home. But our Politicians don't seem to be bothered by it. Nor do I agree with the taxpayer providing FREE health care to the the dead beats and lazy asses.

Bottom line is. your rates and taxes will go up under Obamacare. Dems are wanting to put private ins companies out of business and make the government the only game in town

[Dang Straight]

Bottom line is. your rates and taxes will go up under Obamacare. Dems are wanting to put private ins companies out of business and make the government the only game in town

Our H/C system need to be improved, not re-invented. ObamaCare IS NOT the way to go. Many things can be done to cut cost and see that everyone pays something for the care they get.

Please don't think for a moment I support Obama or his Socialist buddies. I don't.

[red states rule]

Our H/C system need to be improved, not re-invented. ObamaCare IS NOT the way to go. Many things can be done to cut cost and see that everyone pays something for the care they get.

Please don't think for a moment I support Obama or his Socialist buddies. I don't.

If you did, you would be in the minoirty

The good ideas Republicans had to lower the cost and make it more affordable were all rejected by the Dems

Current;ly, Dems are giving the finger to the voters given the recent polls

•57% Predict Health Care Plan Will Hurt The Economy
•53% Remain Opposed to Health Care Plan
•55% Say Congress Should Start Over On Health Care

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/

[crin63]

I don't really see how that matters in this debate, whether under social healthcare or not your son would still be of the same productivity. All I was saying is that if I got lumped with a bill for a couple of thousand pounds right no, compleltly out of the blue it would screw me seven ways from Sunday, and tge thought of that happening would likly keep me away from hospitals altogether.

Its absolutely pertinent to this debate because I view anyone who is physically and mentally able to work a full time job and won't or anyone who lives off the sweat of others because they want an easy way out as a worthless drag on society.

My son didn't hesitate for second that he would have bills because he knows that without a doubt he will earn the to money to pay for them. I see it as a difference in mindset. He was raised to appreciate freedom and understand individual responsibility not a collectivist view where others are working to take care of him.

So you will never finance anything then? You will never go in debt for anything?

[Dang Straight]

If you did, you would be in the minoirty

The good ideas Republicans had to lower the cost and make it more affordable were all rejected by the Dems

Current;ly, Dems are giving the finger to the voters given the recent polls

•57% Predict Health Care Plan Will Hurt The Economy
•53% Remain Opposed to Health Care Plan
•55% Say Congress Should Start Over On Health Care

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/

Do you think that a politician is going to listen to anyone, especially when it doesn't support what they are doing?

[red states rule]

Do you think that a politician is going to listen to anyone, especially when it doesn't support what they are doing?

Some are. Why do you think Obamacare has not passed yet?

DEMOCRATS are worried about their re-election chances and they are the ones stopping it from passing

[Noir]

Its absolutely pertinent to this debate because I view anyone who is physically and mentally able to work a full time job and won't or anyone who lives off the sweat of others because they want an easy way out as a worthless drag on society.

I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with that, except for the drags themselves.


My son didn't hesitate for second that he would have bills because he knows that without a doubt he will earn the to money to pay for them. I see it as a difference in mindset. He was raised to appreciate freedom and understand individual responsibility not a collectivist view where others are working to take care of him.

But its just so out of the blue, i mean, i'm pretty good at looking after my own money, and have done for several years, however, that all takes allot of planning, like i memo once when my dog got an ear infection, 3 visits to the vet and 2 sets of Anti-biotics cost about £130 all in all, and that set us back for weeks, i would of just died if i suddenly had to incorporate a $7000 payment scheme that came from nowhere. =/


So you will never finance anything then? You will never go in debt for anything?

No, i hate debt, with a passion,(except like a mortgage for a house ect but thats a nessessery evil.)
However back on the topic i would rather live under our healthcare system than yours, however, that is not to say i think that you guys should adopt ours.

[Dang Straight]

Some are. Why do you think Obamacare has not passed yet?

DEMOCRATS are worried about their re-election chances and they are the ones stopping it from passing

Yes some are, but are there enough, why does it take the possibility of not being re-elected get them to vote the way people want them to. If they aren't up for re-election to hell with the voice of the people.

Somewhere along the way the voice of the people has been lost. This isn't just the Dems but the Repub. also. Sad isn't it. What's even sadder is people that don't bother to go to the polls.

[Kathianne]

I see where you are coming from, but answer this, if a young person decides not to have health insurance, get sick or injured with/by something major, who gets to pick up the tab?

This isn't an endorsement for ObamaCare, but one of the problems we are faced with today.........

They are playing the odds, just like the insurance companies do. For most it's a matter of 6mo-a year, by then they have the insurance through work.

Really it's not much different than will happen even if the monstrosity should pass, some won't be able to afford whatever the cost, so they'll get covered. Most likely we'll see many drop the insurance, pay the fine. Then sign up when sick and diagnosed, as the 'companies' will be required to cover pre-existing. This is ripe with unintended consequences.

[red states rule]

Yes some are, but are there enough, why does it take the possibility of not being re-elected get them to vote the way people want them to. If they aren't up for re-election to hell with the voice of the people.

Somewhere along the way the voice of the people has been lost. This isn't just the Dems but the Repub. also. Sad isn't it. What's even sadder is people that don't bother to go to the polls.

First, the people do NOT want Obamacare. It is the leadership trying to ram it thru - and a handful of Dems are feeling the ehat from the voters and they are the ones holding this up

I suspect given the actions of the Dems, their arrogance, and their "screw you" attitude - there will be record turnout this November

[Dang Straight]

First, the people do NOT want Obamacare. It is the leadership trying to ram it thru - and a handful of Dems are feeling the ehat from the voters and they are the ones holding this up

I suspect given the actions of the Dems, their arrogance, and their "screw you" attitude - there will be record turnout this November

I am not sure who's going to get screwed, come Nov. it maybe to late. There's always HOPE....................

[red states rule]

I am not sure who's going to get screwed, come Nov. it maybe to late. There's always HOPE....................

Dems are currently flipping off the voters and come November it will be the voters turn to show the Dems how the feel about all that hope and change they have been seeing and feeling

[Dang Straight]

Dems are currently flipping off the voters and come November it will be the voters turn to show the Dems how the feel about all that hope and change they have been seeing and feeling

I would hope so............ we'll see.

Seeing as how you'll be a No Dem vote, I'll bea No Dem vote, well it's a start.

[Abbey Marie]

I would hope so............ we'll see.

Seeing as how you'll be a No Dem vote, I'll bea No Dem vote, well it's a start.

Welcome to the board, DS. :)

[Dang Straight]

Welcome to the board, DS. :)

Thank you..................:)

[LuvRPgrl]

I see where you are coming from, but answer this, if a young person decides not to have health insurance, get sick or injured with/by something major, who gets to pick up the tab?

This isn't an endorsement for ObamaCare, but one of the problems we are faced with today.........

That is when a charity or group of individuals, private group, needs to stand up and take care of it.

FACT, as govt gets bigger, charities get less contributions
FACT charities are much more effective in getting your bang for your buck

Thing is, INSURANCE was originally suppose to take care of things that would be DEVISTATING, such as your house burning down, and not for everyday things, like washing your windows (i.e. routine doctor checkups)
IN actuality, it is the insurance companies, backed by the liberals mostly, who push these kinds of things requiring insurance, as it increases their coffers. Its a total scam. People should pay for the smaller items, and then the whole cost of medicine would come down drastically.
WHy pay $400 a month for insurance, when you could pay $100, and the pay cash at the DRs office for the visit, of say, $200.

I havent gotten into the details of the obama care for several reasons. So, if the insurance companies are basically opposed to it, its for other reasons than what I mentioned above.

So, you explain to me why a person should go to prison if they dont want health insurance and they are 25, healthy and never seen a doctor in their life
{which was the case for me from age 5 to 45)
I have paid tens of thousands of dollars into mandatory auto insurance and never seen a dime of it back.

one final thing, dont get lost in results or how to fix something when discussing philosophies on "rights of citizens"

If we do have a right, (the right to not be forced by the federal govt to buy something), then even if the solution to a problem is going to work great for everybody, if it strips a right, then it is simply wrong, and it does open up the slippery slope.

EXAMPLE, the liberals have been using the courts for decades now to get "legislation" in their favor. Judges have been creating law, and circumventing existing law.
Now when the case of imminet domain comes up, and a judge decides a private individual (and ONLY because he is rich enough) can demand and force another individual to sell their property TO HIM
THAT IS PART OF THE INSANITY THAT HAS TAKEN OVER THIS COUNTRY.

[LuvRPgrl]

Dems are currently flipping off the voters and come November it will be the voters turn to show the Dems how the feel about all that hope and change they have been seeing and feeling

HA, I read this post piggybacked on someone else's and thought, "exactly right'" before I even noticed who posted it. :)

Fact is, one of the most, if not THE most liberal bastions in America blatantly voted AGAINST obama care, but the liberal Dems ignored it.

Hopefully come election time, it will have been an important enough issue for people to remember to vote them out of office.

[cat slave]

Payback begins tomorrow!