Shame of war

[Said1]

I doubt anyone will read this through or care much, but I thought it was worth sharing. Very long, it's a book.

http://www.irinnews.org/pdf/sow/IRIN-TheShameofWar-fullreport-Mar07.pdf

[theHawk]

Its a very dark world outside our borders.

And now that liberals have more power than ever in the U.S., don't expect much help in terms of military might to stop tyranny....because they haven't "attacked us."

[Hagbard Celine]

Its a very dark world outside our borders.

And now that liberals have more power than ever in the U.S., don't expect much help in terms of military might to stop tyranny....because they haven't "attacked us."

You're right hawk, liberals are the root cause of and chief reason for the continued existence of evil in the world. :rolleyes:

Said1, thanks for sharing. People need to know about the savagery going on in Africa. Many in the US are so pre-occupied with the Iraqi adventure that they tend to forget the dark continent and other wild regions of the world. I've seen reports of women and children having their hands chopped off in addition to being raped just because of their ethnicity--as well as being gang-raped and having their genitals mutilated with machetes. They've got some real barbarians over there commiting some of the worst atrocities in history but we never hear about it over here because western consumers don't like dealing with unpleasant realities--or reading outside their sudoku booklets for that matter. I'm ashamed to say those people are probably s.o.l. as far as US or UN help is concerned.

[manu1959]

You're right hawk, liberals are the root cause of and chief reason for the continued existence of evil in the world. :rolleyes:

Said1, thanks for sharing. People need to know about the savagery going on in Africa. Many in the US are so pre-occupied with the Iraqi adventure that they tend to forget the dark continent and other wild regions of the world. I've seen reports of women and children having their hands chopped off in addition to being raped just because of their ethnicity--as well as being gang-raped and having their genitals mutilated with machetes. They've got some real barbarians over there commiting some of the worst atrocities in history but we never hear about it over here because western consumers don't like dealing with unpleasant realities--or reading outside their sudoku booklets for that matter. I'm ashamed to say those people are probably s.o.l. as far as US or UN help is concerned.

yes it is awful.....makes you wonder why we pulled out of somalia and rawanda....

[Hagbard Celine]

yes it is awful.....makes you wonder why we pulled out of somalia and rawanda....

We pulled out because it was no longer profitable or in the interest of the state. War and military action is fueled by money--nothing else. All other reasons are used as political devices for gaining public support.

[theHawk]

We pulled out because it was no longer profitable or in the interest of the state. War and military action is fueled by money--nothing else. All other reasons are used as political devices for gaining public support.


Interesting, we must be making bundles of cash from the war in Iraq then.

[theHawk]

You're right hawk, liberals are the root cause of and chief reason for the continued existence of evil in the world. :rolleyes:


I didn't say they are the root cause of such tyranny. As for allowing the continued existence of it.... that seems to be the message Liberals are giving today, since the Iraq War was unjust because we weren't attacked. The liberals' reaction to overthrow of Saddam seems to prove that point. Libs argue we should of not had started this war, and thus Saddam should still be in power....oppressing his people in many of the same ways as the article above points out is happening around the world. I'm not saying every person in America should pick up a gun and go fight such tyranny, I just think we should allow people to do so if they want to. But apparently allowing Americans to volunteer into an all volunteer army to do just that is unacceptable to liberals.
:salute:

[Hagbard Celine]

Interesting, we must be making bundles of cash from the war in Iraq then.

Defense contractors like Halliburton are making billions.

[Hagbard Celine]

I didn't say they are the root cause of such tyranny. As for allowing the continued existence of it.... that seems to be the message Liberals are giving today, since the Iraq War was unjust because we weren't attacked. The liberals' reaction to overthrow of Saddam seems to prove that point. Libs argue we should of not had started this war, and thus Saddam should still be in power....oppressing his people in many of the same ways as the article above points out is happening around the world. I'm not saying every person in America should pick up a gun and go fight such tyranny, I just think we should allow people to do so if they want to. But apparently allowing Americans to volunteer into an all volunteer army to do just that is unacceptable to liberals.
:salute:

Eh. It is an undeniable fact that Iraq is in worse shape now than it was under Saddam's rule. Under Saddam's rule, at least people could go to work, kids were going to school and most of the country had basic utilities. Will the people there be better off in the long run--a century from now? Maybe. But right now they're dying in droves. Think the VT massacre was bad? That many people die in Iraq due to sectarian violence every day. The fact of the matter is that Americans are dying too and we know absolutely now that we started the Iraq conflict based on an assumption that has been proven false. Therefore, the war was a mistake and it could have been prevented--just like the over 3000 US military casualties. Not to mention the war was illegal under international law. It's hurting the US' reputation abroad and all studies are showing that it's actually fueling terrorism, instead of defeating it. It's a 100 percent catastrophic failure and instead of getting our guys out of it, they've sent more in to die! And you argue in favor of it based on some primitive concept of "defeat" or "victory." I guarantee you this era in US history will go down as one of the biggest farces in the history of the world.

[theHawk]

Defense contractors like Halliburton are making billions.

Halliburton makes its money from defense contracts, not from robbing the Iraqi people as most libs like to pretend. They've been doing what they do for over 80 years, and are probably the best and most experienced company to do that sort of work. Their workers have to get paid, just like our troops need to, just like suppliers of military equipment do. Thats just the way capitalism works, sorry if we don't live in a Marxist utopia that would dictate otherwise.
You libs love to demonize Halliburton, but Clinton didn't mind using them in Bosnia, and they did a damn good job capping all those burning oil wells your good friend Saddam left burning in Kuwait.


Keep smokin' the good stuff. :smoke:

[Hagbard Celine]

Halliburton makes its money from defense contracts, not from robbing the Iraqi people as most libs like to pretend. They've been doing what they do for over 80 years, and are probably the best and most experienced company to do that sort of work. Their workers have to get paid, just like our troops need to, just like suppliers of military equipment do. Thats just the way capitalism works, sorry if we don't live in a Marxist utopia that would dictate otherwise.
You libs love to demonize Halliburton, but Clinton didn't mind using them in Bosnia, and they did a damn good job capping all those burning oil wells your good friend Saddam left burning in Kuwait.


Keep smokin' the good stuff. :smoke:

I never even hinted that Halliburton was robbing Iraqis. It is, however robbing Americans blind. If Saddam was still in power the world would be a safer place than it is now. It's a fact jack.

[theHawk]

I never even hinted that Halliburton was robbing Iraqis. It is, however robbing Americans blind. If Saddam was still in power the world would be a safer place than it is now. It's a fact jack.

I see, so oppressive governments should be allowed to continue to operate, even if they defy international law and treaties, just because they run their country like a nazi regime.
By the way, I think Kuwaitis would disagree with your assesment about it being safer with Saddam in power. Even most Dims agree that Saddam being gone is a good thing. You however, are complete moonbat. :slap:

[Hagbard Celine]

I see, so oppressive governments should be allowed to continue to operate, even if they defy international law and treaties, just because they run their country like a nazi regime.
By the way, I think Kuwaitis would disagree with your assesment about it being safer with Saddam in power. Even most Dims agree that Saddam being gone is a good thing. You however, are complete moonbat. :slap:

The Sunnis and Shias sure as hell didn't engage in civil war under Saddam's rule did they genius? Terrorism sure as hell didn't fester and gain strength in Iraq under Saddam's rule did it genius? Case closed. Check mate. King me. Whatever euphemism you want to use, the world was a safer place with Saddam's Iraq than we are with the cluster f*ck we have today.

[manu1959]

The Sunnis and Shias sure as hell didn't engage in civil war under Saddam's rule did they genius? Terrorism sure as hell didn't fester and gain strength in Iraq under Saddam's rule did it genius? Case closed. Check mate. King me. Whatever euphemism you want to use, the world was a safer place with Saddam's Iraq than we are with the cluster f*ck we have today.

quick.....did saddam favour sunni or shia?......which did he kill more of?.....

[manu1959]

quick.....did saddam favour sunni or shia?......which did he kill more of?.....

here let me help...http://www.shianews.com/hi/europe/news_id/0000435.php

would this be genocide?.....and the flashback would then be because of saddam no?

[Hagbard Celine]

quick.....did saddam favour sunni or shia?......which did he kill more of?.....

Saddam did more than favor Sunnis. He was one. Is this the part where you tell me that the "Iraqis" are better off now because no one sect has control anymore? PAH! That's rich.

[theHawk]

The Sunnis and Shias sure as hell didn't engage in civil war under Saddam's rule did they genius? Terrorism sure as hell didn't fester and gain strength in Iraq under Saddam's rule did it genius? Case closed. Check mate. King me. Whatever euphemism you want to use, the world was a safer place with Saddam's Iraq than we are with the cluster f*ck we have today.

Guess we should of never had a civil war here in the U.S. then either huh? God forbid we allow people to fight for whatever they believe in. Yes, the road to freedom is usually long and bloody, does that mean its not worth it?

[Sitarro]

Saddam did more than favor Sunnis. He was one. Is this the part where you tell me that the "Iraqis" are better off now because no one sect has control anymore? PAH! That's rich.

Are you just naturally this dense or did you need to go to college to get to this point?

[Hagbard Celine]

Guess we should of never had a civil war here in the U.S. then either huh? God forbid we allow people to fight for whatever they believe in. Yes, the road to freedom is usually long and bloody, does that mean its not worth it?

I'm sorry. I need some help remembering...which foreign country incited conflict and occupied the US during its civil war? In this case, it's not worth it. Suppose we actually do finally get some semblance of a "democracy" propped-up out there in Iraq. They're just going to vote in some anti-US imam or worse, some militant islamist war chief just like Iran has done and just like the Palestinians have done.. Is that what we're fighting for? F*ck that. It's not worth the cost in American lives. We're never going to make any progress in our favor while Islam is the law of the land.

[Hagbard Celine]

Of all the comments I've made, the above one is one I thought many of the conservative posters on this board would at least half-ass agree with, yet Buckwheat negative repped me for it. I guess he was looking for some quid-pro-quo since I neg repped him earlier for a blatant ad-hominem attack. I guess this little episode shows how pettiness and unoriginality go hand-in-hand. :dunno:

[Gaffer]

I'm sorry. I need some help remembering...which foreign country incited conflict and occupied the US during its civil war? In this case, it's not worth it. Suppose we actually do finally get some semblance of a "democracy" propped-up out there in Iraq. They're just going to vote in some anti-US imam or worse, some militant islamist war chief just like Iran has done and just like the Palestinians have done.. Is that what we're fighting for? F*ck that. It's not worth the cost in American lives. We're never going to make any progress in our favor while Islam is the law of the land.

I totally agree with you on the last sentence.

However your reasoning in your other posts is exactly why there is so much terror and murder and terrible things going on in the undeveloped parts of the world. It would require a lot of people to get off their fat asses and go do something about these things. Which they won't do. It's not my concern is how most think about it. They are not a threat to us so who cares. We can't be the policeman of the world. Going in and attempting to change things and make things better would be a mistake. If one American soldier dies its not worth it. The excuses go on and on.

The governments of the world have NO interest in human life. They are only interested in appeasing their own people so they can remain in power. Morals and ethics never enter in to their considerations. Profit and threats to their existance are all they are concerned about. That goes for our government as well.

[diuretic]

Interesting, we must be making bundles of cash from the war in Iraq then.

No, just transferring it to the private sector interests there.

[diuretic]

I didn't say they are the root cause of such tyranny. As for allowing the continued existence of it.... that seems to be the message Liberals are giving today, since the Iraq War was unjust because we weren't attacked. The liberals' reaction to overthrow of Saddam seems to prove that point. Libs argue we should of not had started this war, and thus Saddam should still be in power....oppressing his people in many of the same ways as the article above points out is happening around the world. I'm not saying every person in America should pick up a gun and go fight such tyranny, I just think we should allow people to do so if they want to. But apparently allowing Americans to volunteer into an all volunteer army to do just that is unacceptable to liberals.
:salute:

On Saddam, why did it take so long for the West to become concerned about his brutality?

[diuretic]

I see, so oppressive governments should be allowed to continue to operate, even if they defy international law and treaties, just because they run their country like a nazi regime.
By the way, I think Kuwaitis would disagree with your assesment about it being safer with Saddam in power. Even most Dims agree that Saddam being gone is a good thing. You however, are complete moonbat. :slap:

I think the US should be invaded and occupied because it's being ruled by a brutal dictatorship. It's an oppressive government that shouldn't be allowed to continue to operate, it has defied international law and treaties. So, you would support the liberation of the US from its dictatorship.

[diuretic]

I totally agree with you on the last sentence.

However your reasoning in your other posts is exactly why there is so much terror and murder and terrible things going on in the undeveloped parts of the world. It would require a lot of people to get off their fat asses and go do something about these things. Which they won't do. It's not my concern is how most think about it. They are not a threat to us so who cares. We can't be the policeman of the world. Going in and attempting to change things and make things better would be a mistake. If one American soldier dies its not worth it. The excuses go on and on.

The governments of the world have NO interest in human life. They are only interested in appeasing their own people so they can remain in power. Morals and ethics never enter in to their considerations. Profit and threats to their existance are all they are concerned about. That goes for our government as well.

I don't believe it - something I can (mostly) agree with. Foreign policy is about naked self-interest and if it isn't then it should be.