Age of Consent; International differences

[Noir]

Hey guys, i'm guessing some of y'all are lawyers or atleast have knowledge of the law, if so you may be able to help with this.

On another website it has become clear that there is a user who has been openly sexually provocative towards younger users, ranging from chats to videos of himself and requesting videos of young girls, he is 22.

Now it was exposed earlier this week when an Anon internet user gathered together bits of info from those that has it but had never put it together, and released it all, in on case he was asking for a 15 year old girl from wisconsin to make explicit videos for him, no his defence is that he is not a pedophile because he is from Spain, where the age of consent is 13, therefore if he is sexually provocative towards girls from 13+ thats legal.

So, basically the question is, is that so?
Obviously its wrong on a moral level, but could we get him on a legal level?

[darin]

Brother - I just don't know international law enough. Waste of a reply, I know...but just sayin....Consent laws are weird. Setting a specific age is strange because of cultures, etc. When I was 19 in germany I dated, quite heavily a barely 17 year old...weeks after she turned 17. She'd already been with a guy or two. Started birth control at 14.

She was one of the great loves of my life.

funny thing - now that I read that....when I started dating my wife she was 17, and i was 23. Course, we didn't have sex until after marriage - but still...plenty of folks could have raised a stink. Age of concent in WA state was 16 with some stipulations

Anywho...yeah - no real answer here...but hope you're not in trouble. I like havin ya around.

:)

[Noir]

Brother - I just don't know international law enough. Waste of a reply, I know...but just sayin....Consent laws are weird. Setting a specific age is strange because of cultures, etc. When I was 19 in germany I dated, quite heavily a barely 17 year old...weeks after she turned 17. She'd already been with a guy or two. Started birth control at 14.

She was one of the great loves of my life.

funny thing - now that I read that....when I started dating my wife she was 17, and i was 23. Course, we didn't have sex until after marriage - but still...plenty of folks could have raised a stink. Age of concent in WA state was 16 with some stipulations

Anywho...yeah - no real answer here...but hope you're not in trouble. I like havin ya around.

:)

I knows, normally i wouldn't care, but i've never liked this guy and the way he talks, and even now to hear the way he is talking about it all is rather disgusting, because its like he's only doing it because he knows (or atleast thinks) he can get away with it, its not like he really cares about this girl or anything,

and well played with the wife :salute:

Edit - Also, as an aside, kinda interesting that some folks were sayin that i was in the wrong for going to meet a 16 year old when i'm 19, and yet i'm sure none of them will see a problem with you and your wife, and if they do, then they have shot themselves quite wonderfully in the foot

[darin]

My friend - it's all about context. People LOVE to cite rules and find moral authority when it suits them. I used to be one judgmental bastard. Then I learned a few things - still am. First thing is, I believe 100% in Christ and His message. Love people. When I judge people am I judging out of LOVE (which can be fine), or am I doing it out of a position of pride or offense. Another thing I learned is Crazy shit happens. People mature at different rates. People grow and change. At 16 my wife had graduated HS. At 17 was in College. The youngest of 6 kids she was a little older than she was....make sense? And that caboose she had...wowo.

:p

Now - there are side-issues; doubt the marriage will last but that's the percoset talking - and fodder for another thread. Sure love that woman though.

Anywho mate....cheers to ya.

[Trigg]

I knows, normally i wouldn't care, but i've never liked this guy and the way he talks, and even now to hear the way he is talking about it all is rather disgusting, because its like he's only doing it because he knows (or atleast thinks) he can get away with it, its not like he really cares about this girl or anything,

and well played with the wife :salute:

Edit - Also, as an aside, kinda interesting that some folks were sayin that i was in the wrong for going to meet a 16 year old when i'm 19, and yet i'm sure none of them will see a problem with you and your wife, and if they do, then they have shot themselves quite wonderfully in the foot

People were saying that you were wrong to SNEAK around and try to meet an underage girl without the consent of her parents. That'll get you jail time in the US.

DMP knew the family (see the difference) and they were apparently ok with the situation.

Parental consent, when involved with underage girls, makes all the difference.

[Noir]

People were saying that you were wrong to SNEAK around and try to meet an underage girl without the consent of her parents. That'll get you jail time in the US.

DMP knew the family (see the difference) and they were apparently ok with the situation.

Parental consent, when involved with underage girls, makes all the difference.

Indeedy, well i specifically memo comments about age, as i can memo having to type many times 'age is of little concern' and similar comments,
I also don't know what made her an "underage girl"

But no matter, the main concern for this topic is if this scumbag can be legally reprimanded for what he has been doing, and is so proud of.

[LiberalNation]

16 here but you can get married at 12, figure that one out.

[Noir]

16 here but you can get married at 12, figure that one out.

Chirst, so your sex life is over before you can legally have one :laugh2:

[HogTrash]

The way I understand it, you're required to obey the laws of the nation you are physically in...The location of a perceived victim would not be an issue.

I recall there were failed attempts by the US State Dept to prosecute offshore internet gaming websites for soliciting illegal gambling services in the US.

I'm not sure what became of it but I believe it was dismissed because their operations were based in the Bahamas where internet gaming was not illegal.

[Luna Tick]

Hey guys, i'm guessing some of y'all are lawyers or atleast have knowledge of the law, if so you may be able to help with this.

On another website it has become clear that there is a user who has been openly sexually provocative towards younger users, ranging from chats to videos of himself and requesting videos of young girls, he is 22.

Now it was exposed earlier this week when an Anon internet user gathered together bits of info from those that has it but had never put it together, and released it all, in on case he was asking for a 15 year old girl from wisconsin to make explicit videos for him, no his defence is that he is not a pedophile because he is from Spain, where the age of consent is 13, therefore if he is sexually provocative towards girls from 13+ thats legal.

So, basically the question is, is that so?
Obviously its wrong on a moral level, but could we get him on a legal level?

I'm not a lawyer, so this is just a guess. I would think if she travels to Wisconsin and has sex with him, he's in trouble, but if he goes to Spain and does her, he's probably in the clear legally. That is unless there's some kind of US law against soliciting an underage to another country for sex and Spain has an extradition treaty that includes that law.

Like I say, that's just my guess. Is anyone out there a lawyer who would know?

[Luna Tick]

The way I understand it, you're required to obey the laws of the nation you are physically in...The location of a perceived victim would not be an issue.

I do know there are some US laws against sexual tourism where an American can get into trouble for going to a country like Tailand to have sex with people who are considered underage in the US. Of course, those laws would only apply to Americans, not to a person from Spain. I also wonder if those laws could hold up under legal challenges because when the American is outside of the USA, he's not under US jurisdiction. That law covers the behavior of an American who's not in the USA. You would think only the laws of the country he's in could apply to him.

[Noir]

I'm not a lawyer, so this is just a guess. I would think if she travels to Wisconsin and has sex with him, he's in trouble, but if he goes to Spain and does her, he's probably in the clear legally. That is unless there's some kind of US law against soliciting an underage to another country for sex and Spain has an extradition treaty that includes that law.

Like I say, that's just my guess. Is anyone out there a lawyer who would know?

He lives in Spain and she lives in Wisconsin.
And yeah if they were both in the same country then that'd be easy, however, as they are not, and connected through the internet, its more complicated.

[Luna Tick]

He lives in Spain and she lives in Wisconsin.
And yeah if they were both in the same country then that'd be easy, however, as they are not, and connected through the internet, its more complicated.

If they never actually do anything physically together, it's likely no legal action will be taken. If he comes to Wisconsin and has sex with her, prosecution is likely. If she goes to Spain and they do it, it's unlikely, but possible, depending on how our sex laws read and if they're constitutional and if we have extradition treaties with Spain that cover them.

[Prince Lemon]

I believe got to be 18,period.

[ConHog]

I'm not a lawyer, so this is just a guess. I would think if she travels to Wisconsin and has sex with him, he's in trouble, but if he goes to Spain and does her, he's probably in the clear legally. That is unless there's some kind of US law against soliciting an underage to another country for sex and Spain has an extradition treaty that includes that law.

Like I say, that's just my guess. Is anyone out there a lawyer who would know?

Absolutely there is a law against luring underage children across state lines or out of the country to have sex with them.

Example. The age of consent in Arkansas is 16, in Missouri it is 18. If you talk a 16 year old girl into coming to Arkansas from Missouri thinking if you screw her in Arkansas you are in the clear, you would be wrong. The same applies if you lure a girl out of the country. Now obviously the FBI is limited in what they could do to you if you live out of the country, but they COULD extradite you and charge you with a crime.

As for the internet. It is VERY murky when it comes to videos, chat, pictures and the like. There are quite a few legal enterprises which produce material that is allegedly of minors when in fact it is not, they just find young looking women and pass them off as minors. It's all about the fantasy, and that is a positive defense in court. And one that has been used successfully I might add. In order to have a case , prosecutors must PROVE that you knew for a fact that the subject of whatever material you possess was underage. Now obviously there is a point when it's obvious that pictures are of children or whatever.

[J.T]

Agna?

[Gunny]

Absolutely there is a law against luring underage children across state lines or out of the country to have sex with them.

Example. The age of consent in Arkansas is 16, in Missouri it is 18. If you talk a 16 year old girl into coming to Arkansas from Missouri thinking if you screw her in Arkansas you are in the clear, you would be wrong. The same applies if you lure a girl out of the country. Now obviously the FBI is limited in what they could do to you if you live out of the country, but they COULD extradite you and charge you with a crime.

As for the internet. It is VERY murky when it comes to videos, chat, pictures and the like. There are quite a few legal enterprises which produce material that is allegedly of minors when in fact it is not, they just find young looking women and pass them off as minors. It's all about the fantasy, and that is a positive defense in court. And one that has been used successfully I might add. In order to have a case , prosecutors must PROVE that you knew for a fact that the subject of whatever material you possess was underage. Now obviously there is a point when it's obvious that pictures are of children or whatever.

There's too much gray area in child predator laws, and they don't go just one way. I've caught this show a few times on MSNBC by Chris Hansen called "To Catch a Predator." Then too there are the police disguised as prostitutes to catch johns. That was called entrapment when I was coming up.

The argument goes both ways with one caveat: the pro entrapment side can't PROVE a suspect would have attempted a crime had the carrot not been dangled before them. The con side CAN prove that had there been no carrot, the incident they are charged with as a result of the carrot would not have happened.

Now, I don't approve of child predators and personally think they are a waste of oxygen and other natural resources. However, personal opinion aside, I'm not see a clear and equal application of law. I'm seeing because the majority turns a blind eye to the way predators are treated, it's okay.

Same with child predator felons. What other criminal who has served their term and is out has to register with the local police anywhere they live and/or have their pics posted all over the internet? Isn't the debt to society supposed to be paid once the sentence is served?

[ConHog]

There's too much gray area in child predator laws, and they don't go just one way. I've caught this show a few times on MSNBC by Chris Hansen called "To Catch a Predator." Then too there are the police disguised as prostitutes to catch johns. That was called entrapment when I was coming up.

The argument goes both ways with one caveat: the pro entrapment side can't PROVE a suspect would have attempted a crime had the carrot not been dangled before them. The con side CAN prove that had there been no carrot, the incident they are charged with as a result of the carrot would not have happened.

Now, I don't approve of child predators and personally think they are a waste of oxygen and other natural resources. However, personal opinion aside, I'm not see a clear and equal application of law. I'm seeing because the majority turns a blind eye to the way predators are treated, it's okay.

Same with child predator felons. What other criminal who has served their term and is out has to register with the local police anywhere they live and/or have their pics posted all over the internet? Isn't the debt to society supposed to be paid once the sentence is served?

I like To Catch A Predator, they catch some real dumbasses and "why don't you have a seat over here" might be the funniest line on TV

I sort of agree with you on the entrapment to, same could be said for prostitution. it seems weird that the cops are out pretending to break the law to catch johns. Just seems like a waste of resources to me. On the other hand when it comes to child predators I don't have much, if any sympathy.

As for the sexual registry, I think that is societies way of admitting that we think pedophiles can never be rehabilitated, but that we don't want them locked up forever, so we make them warn their neighbors. I would prefer chemical castration.

[Psychoblues]

UCMJ defines age of legal consent as 14. I was 14 and my first serious (sexual) love was 12. My first piece of ass was 19 and I was 12. What's the big deal?

Psychoblues