*Muslim Headscarf In Calif: Its Begun*

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. It has begun, muzzys complaining about not being able to wear their crap while serving the American Businesses.
2. They want mecca shit hole in America.
3. PC police will come to help this bitch,....I shit you not!!!!
4. And both parties of the govenment will cry out to support this bitch.
5. Might as well cut our own throats folks, its coming,....!!!
6. L/S:http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=xprnw.20100224.DC60204&show_article=1


"Calif. Muslim worker fired for refusing to remove Islamic scarf

SANTA CLARA, Calif., Feb. 24 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The San Francisco Bay Area chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-SFBA) announced today that it has filed an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) complaint against Abercrombie & Fitch on behalf of a Muslim employee who was allegedly fired because she refused to remove her Islamic head scarf, or hijab.

[Become a Fan of CAIR on Facebook.]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/CAIR/42590232694

The Muslim employee reported to CAIR-SFBA that she was hired as a stockroom worker in October of last year at the Hollister outlet in San Mateo, Calif. She says she was told at that time that she could wear her scarf if it was in a color that matched the company's brand identity.

[Hollister Co. is a division of Abercrombie & Fitch. Ohio-based Abercrombie & Fitch operates more than 1100 stores worldwide.]

Recently, a district manager visited the store and noticed that the Muslim employee was wearing a head scarf. The district manager then reportedly initiated a conference call with the company's human resources department during which the Muslim worker was told that scarves and hats are not allowed in the "look" policy. Despite informing company managers that she wears her scarf for religious reasons, the Muslim employee was sent home immediately.

This week, she was told she must remove her scarf during work hours. When she refused to violate her religious beliefs by removing her scarf in public, she was fired.

"This unconscionable and apparently illegal action by company managers violates not only federal civil rights law as it relates to religious accommodation in the workplace, but also violates Abercrombie & Fitch's own stated commitments to diversity, inclusion and ethical business practices," said CAIR-SFBA Programs and Outreach Director Zahra Billoo. "We urge Abercrombie & Fitch customers who value diversity and inclusion to contact the company to express their concerns about this violation of religious freedom."

She said Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employers from discriminating against individuals because of their religion in hiring, firing and other terms and conditions of employment. The act also requires employers to reasonably accommodate the religious practices of an employee, unless doing so would create an "undue hardship" for the employer.

In 2008, the EEOC issued new guidelines on accommodating religious beliefs and practices in the workplace. The guidelines offer protection for workers who wear religious attire such as hijab. "



7. We have two muzzy women at the local CVS pharmcy, I won't be going there again.
8. They were normal looking cloths, with these black head cover deals.
9. CVS can suck it!
10. No more my monies going to them.




Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[hjmick]

A&F are in the wrong. She should not have been fired, she should be allowed to wear her hajib as her religion dictates.

[Agnapostate]

No one gives a shit about you not bringing your trailer scraps to the watering hole, Cletus.

[Noir]

A&F are in the wrong. She should not have been fired, she should be allowed to wear her hajib as her religion dictates.

Say what? Why?

[Jeff]

This should of been made clear to the woman before she was hired, if she wore the scarf the day she was hired and no one said a word then she has a case, if they told her no head wear then she is wrong

[Noir]

This should of been made clear to the woman before she was hired, if she wore the scarf the day she was hired and no one said a word then she has a case, if they told her no head wear then she is wrong

Whats the difference?
If she'd been told before she was hired, she'd of said no, and not got the job
As happens it seems she was first told when she already got the job first, and having not complied with the company rules, was since fired, and has no job.

[Jeff]

Whats the difference?
If she'd been told before she was hired, she'd of said no, and not got the job
As happens it seems she was first told when she already got the job first, and having not complied with the company rules, was since fired, and has no job.

Noir if she wore it to her interview and nothing was said to her that they had a rule about no head wear then it is wrong for them to fire her for it, imagine if you interviewed for a job with a beard , you got hired worked for 6 months then a district manger walked in and told you ya had to shave, forget the religious thing , how would ya feel, in fact the article says she was told she could wear it as long as it was in color, she wins !!

On the other hand I don't feel if they told her from the get go no head wear that they should have to make a exception, but I do believe it is a law not to discriminate due to religion, Jews wear there beanies on certain Sabbath days and are permitted to do so

[Noir]

Noir if she wore it to her interview and nothing was said to her that they had a rule about no head wear then it is wrong for them to fire her for it, imagine if you interviewed for a job with a beard , you got hired worked for 6 months then a district manger walked in and told you ya had to shave, forget the religious thing , how would ya feel, in fact the article says she was told she could wear it as long as it was in color, she wins !!

On the other hand I don't feel if they told her from the get go no head wear that they should have to make a exception, but I do believe it is a law not to discriminate due to religion, Jews wear there beanies on certain Sabbath days and are permitted to do so

The person that told her she could wear it should bear responsibility for getting that wrong, but that does not make her wearing it okay, it just means whoever told her that was in the wrong.

I believe that no one should be treated specially, thus no Muslims with head scarfs, no Jews with beanies ect. Sure the religious will scream discrimination, but that is a red hearing.

[Jeff]

The person that told her she could wear it should bear responsibility for getting that wrong, but that does not make her wearing it okay, it just means whoever told her that was in the wrong.

I believe that no one should be treated specially, thus no Muslims with head scarfs, no Jews with beanies ect. Sure the religious will scream discrimination, but that is a red hearing.

I agree with you Noir whole heartily, but it sounds to me like it was more of the district Managers idea than it was that of the stores


"This unconscionable and apparently illegal action by company managers violates not only federal civil rights law as it relates to religious accommodation in the workplace, but also violates Abercrombie & Fitch's own stated commitments to diversity, inclusion and ethical business practices," said CAIR-SFBA Programs and Outreach Director Zahra Billoo. "We urge Abercrombie & Fitch customers who value diversity and inclusion to contact the company to express their concerns about this violation of religious freedom."


He ought to be fired and have to pay her lost wages and legal fees

[Noir]

I agree with you Noir whole heartily, but it sounds to me like it was more of the district Managers idea than it was that of the stores

"This unconscionable and apparently illegal action by company managers violates not only federal civil rights law as it relates to religious accommodation in the workplace, but also violates Abercrombie & Fitch's own stated commitments to diversity, inclusion and ethical business practices," said CAIR-SFBA Programs and Outreach Director Zahra Billoo. "We urge Abercrombie & Fitch customers who value diversity and inclusion to contact the company to express their concerns about this violation of religious freedom."

He ought to be fired and have to pay her lost wages and legal fees

Indeedy, as thought, scream discrimination because you do not get special rights because of your religion. Tis amazing the extra rights people expect because of their fairy tales.

[Jeff]

Indeedy, as thought, scream discrimination because you do not get special rights because of your religion. Tis amazing the extra rights people expect because of their fairy tales.

I didn't scream anything Noir I posted what they say is the companies rules, IDK, lol, but it is bed time for me, I will discuss it more in the am, I will see ya in the am :thumb:

[Noir]

I didn't scream anything Noir I posted what they say is the companies rules, IDK, lol, but it is bed time for me, I will discuss it more in the am, I will see ya in the am :thumb:

Oh i know, that wasn't directed at you, but at the thing you posted, and yeah i should of gone to bed like 7 hours ago xD
Sleep tight darlin' :)

[Jeff]

Oh i know, that wasn't directed at you, but at the thing you posted, and yeah i should of gone to bed like 7 hours ago xD
Sleep tight darlin' :)

LOL, hey Noir I like ya and all, but ease up on the darlin stuff :laugh2:

[glockmail]

I'm old enough to remember Catholic women, especially older Italians, wearing black scarves over their heads. I didn't have a problem then and don't have a problem now.

[Noir]

LOL, hey Noir I like ya and all, but ease up on the darlin stuff :laugh2:

Oh its just the jib of the jab lol, i didn't realise i'd said it twice in on night though, i can only blame the late hour of the night and being every so slightly intoxicated on strawberry milk :3

[Noir]

I'm old enough to remember Catholic women, especially older Italians, wearing black scarves over their heads. I didn't have a problem then and don't have a problem now.

You don't have a problem with religious groups have special treatment?

[Monkeybone]

You don't have a problem with religious groups have special treatment?
I don't think that it is per say special treatment (thought lately it seems like it, particularly with muslims it seems like it) but that you can't give preferential treatment or discriminate becasue of it.

and with this, just that whole popular call of racist or muslimphobe will pop up.

[Noir]

I don't think that it is per say special treatment (thought lately it seems like it, particularly with muslims it seems like it) but that you can't give preferential treatment or discriminate becasue of it.

and with this, just that whole popular call of racist or muslimphobe will pop up.

They are albe to wear clothes because of their religion that those without religion can not, that is special treatment whatever way you slice it. But religion has a level of (undeserved) respect that says no, they must get special treatment, for to not give them special treatment is discrimination.

[Monkeybone]

I get what you are saying... like how they can circumvent rules like dress code or what now because "it is part of their religion". but what does it hurt? as long as it wasn't stated before it shouldn't be a problem. and if they sue to make them change their rules... that is wrong. you shouldn't be forced to change something because someone else doesn't like it.

I hope that I got the jist of what you were aiming at. if not... oh well! :dance: :cheers2:

[crin63]

My son works for A&F. They apparently only hire people with a look that reflects the companies targeted groups of clients.

Its a privately owned business and if they don't want specific things worn that should be their prerogative, especially since its a brand of clothing and if it takes away from or adds to the appearance of their clothing line.

Time off for religious practices, sure. Allowing people to add to a marketed clothing look, no.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Let them wear their jibjab headscarf in their occult locations, while they plan their next bombings, I still think we should tear all the occult locations down, but till then, you know, make the confine it there.
2. Why should the buying public be exposed to these occult religious garments?
3. Why doesn't all the Catholics start wearing religious clothing, and jam that down everyones throats then?
4. Then vote to only allow our clothing tastes, for commercial interests, we do have the votes you know, Catholics are the biggest religion in America, and I dare say we could vote in any commercial dress code we would prefer.



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Abbey Marie]

A&F apparently won't hire anyone for their stores who isn't very attractive. I hear they hire mainly models. Perhaps ugly and obese people should sue as well.

[Jeff]

A&F apparently won't hire anyone for their stores who isn't very attractive. I hear they hire mainly models. Perhaps ugly and obese people should sue as well.

Or maybe they just ought not tell a applicant it is ok to wear a scarf and then fire them later for doing so :dunno:

As for the models they hire, there was just one that closed down here, My son buys his clothes there or did, yes they did have some fine looking woman in there , well girls actually, but again I would think ya make the rules at the time of emplyment

[Abbey Marie]

Or maybe they just ought not tell a applicant it is ok to wear a scarf and then fire them later for doing so :dunno:

As for the models they hire, there was just one that closed down here, My son buys his clothes there or did, yes they did have some fine looking woman in there , well girls actually, but again I would think ya make the rules at the time of emplyment

If they had a no head-scarf hiring rule, they would probably be found to be discriminating against Muslims. It's a no-win situation for them.

On a related note, we have a scarf wearing young woman working at our local Victoria's Secret. There she is among all of the push up bras and thongs, wearing her modesty head garment. :rolleyes:

[Jeff]

If they had a no head-scarf hiring rule, they would probably be found to be discriminating against Muslims. It's a no-win situation for them.

On a related note, we have a scarf wearing young woman working at our local Victoria's Secret. There she is among all of the push up bras and thongs, wearing her modesty head garment. :rolleyes:

Could ya get her # for me, or at least a pic, :laugh2:

I agree with ya Abbey they lose either way

[Abbey Marie]

Could ya get her # for me, or at least a pic, :laugh2:

I agree with ya Abbey they lose either way

:laugh2:

[crin63]

A&F apparently won't hire anyone for their stores who isn't very attractive. I hear they hire mainly models. Perhaps ugly and obese people should sue as well.

My son said the store policy is that employees are not allowed to wear any headwear. That is explained while being interviewed for a position and in the companies policies so if its expressed as a problem for the potential employee then they are no longer considered for employment.

The ugly, obese and just plain looking folk work in impact (stock room) and are affectionately referred to as warehouse trolls by some of the kids. They would call them that regardless of appearance because its just a kind of competitive thing. An us vs. them kind of joke.

[Jeff]

Store policy is that employees are not allowed to wear anything on their heads.
The ugly, obese and just plain looking folk work in impact (stock room) and are affectionately referred to as warehouse trolls by some of the kids. They would call them that regardless of appearance because its just a kind of competitive thing. An us vs. them kind of joke.

Crin her statement is

She says she was told at that time that she could wear her scarf if it was in a color that matched the company's brand identity.

The article also stated what the store did violates there own commitments


"This unconscionable and apparently illegal action by company managers violates not only federal civil rights law as it relates to religious accommodation in the workplace, but also violates Abercrombie & Fitch's own stated commitments to diversity, inclusion and ethical business practices," said CAIR-SFBA Programs and Outreach Director Zahra Billoo. "We urge Abercrombie & Fitch customers who value diversity and inclusion to contact the company to express their concerns about this violation of religious freedom."

[glockmail]

You don't have a problem with religious groups have special treatment? Not for traditional dress.

[crin63]

Crin her statement is

She says she was told at that time that she could wear her scarf if it was in a color that matched the company's brand identity.

The article also stated what the store did violates there own commitments


"This unconscionable and apparently illegal action by company managers violates not only federal civil rights law as it relates to religious accommodation in the workplace, but also violates Abercrombie & Fitch's own stated commitments to diversity, inclusion and ethical business practices," said CAIR-SFBA Programs and Outreach Director Zahra Billoo. "We urge Abercrombie & Fitch customers who value diversity and inclusion to contact the company to express their concerns about this violation of religious freedom."

I'm just going by my sons personal experience last October when he was being hired to work at A&F on the floor.

Personally I don't have a problem with companies refusing to allow people to wear religious items. I guess thats the Libertarian part of me. I just figure its their company and they can establish the rules of dress so long as they apply them fairly. If they say no headwear as a blanket statement thats good enough for me.

I think they should allow employees unpaid time off for religious activities without penalty but then I was also willing to be fired for not working on Sundays. I was threatened with being fired a few times, I was penalized for it several times and I was fired for refusing to take a job when I had to go pick up my sons from school after the company changed the schedule for the day as I was leaving.

[Noir]

Not for traditional dress.

Okie dokes, i don't think anyone should get special treatment because of their religion.

[Jeff]

I'm just going by my sons personal experience last October when he was being hired to work at A&F on the floor.

Personally I don't have a problem with companies refusing to allow people to wear religious items. I guess thats the Libertarian part of me. I just figure its their company and they can establish the rules of dress so long as they apply them fairly. If they say no headwear as a blanket statement thats good enough for me.

I think they should allow employees unpaid time off for religious activities without penalty but then I was also willing to be fired for not working on Sundays. I was threatened with being fired a few times, I was penalized for it several times and I was fired for refusing to take a job when I had to go pick up my sons from school after the company changed the schedule for the day as I was leaving.

Honestly Crin I am not sure how I personally feel about all this, I see it in a few different lights , my point was just going by the article, which I am sure was written by some lawyer somewhere

I have to agree with ya on the point that if one feels they want to take off for religious beliefs , you must follow your heart

[glockmail]

Okie dokes, i don't think anyone should get special treatment because of their religion. So if they are gay, special treatment; religious, no.

[Noir]

So if they are gay, special treatment; religious, no.

No, treatment should be equal for all, not special.

[Trigg]

Okie dokes, i don't think anyone should get special treatment because of their religion.

it isn't special treatment.

If she went to the store and was hired while wearing the headscarf than she has a case.

It is just like if a person was hired while wearing facial piercings. That person would then assume, rightfully, that facial piercings were allowed while at work. If he was fired for wearing them than he has a case.

Their dress code should have been clear from the beginning.

[glockmail]

No, treatment should be equal for all, not special.So then you have no prob with the gal wearing a religious head scarf.

[Trigg]

So then you have no prob with the gal wearing a religious head scarf.

seems to me he has a problem with religion in general.

[SassyLady]

I quit working for a company after two years because I could no longer adhere to their dress code. It was stifling.........wearing a black suit everyday, with black shoes and white top made me feel like a crow. Loved the work, hated the uniform.

However, the owner wanted people to wear black suits and it was his company .... his rules. And, if he changed the rules at any time after I was hired, it was still his business; his choice....as long as the rules applied to everyone and when the rules changed, everyone was given adequate notice to comply or go elsewhere I don't see what the problem is.

The only time I see a problem is when an individual, or group of people, are given latitude to wear what they want due to religion or any other reason.

Why would anyone want to work as a UPS driver who hates the color brown? My opinion is - get a job somewhere else if the dress code doesn't suit you.

[Noir]

it isn't special treatment.

If she went to the store and was hired while wearing the headscarf than she has a case.

It is just like if a person was hired while wearing facial piercings. That person would then assume, rightfully, that facial piercings were allowed while at work. If he was fired for wearing them than he has a case.

Their dress code should have been clear from the beginning.

Indeedy it should of been clear from the beginning, but it obviously wasn't (thus the fault of who ever hired her) however, once the mistake was realised and she was asked to remove it she refused, and thus was asking for special rights, which she should not get.

[Noir]

So then you have no prob with the gal wearing a religious head scarf.

All should be equal, if the dress code in the store allows for people to ware scarfs ect then religious and non-religious ones can be worn,
However,
If scarfs are not within the dress code then they are not accepable whether for religious reasons or not.

[Noir]

seems to me he has a problem with religion in general.

I have a problem with people wanting more rights than others because of their beliefs, everyone should be equal, no?

[Trigg]

Indeedy it should of been clear from the beginning, but it obviously wasn't (thus the fault of who ever hired her) however, once the mistake was realised and she was asked to remove it she refused, and thus was asking for special rights, which she should not get.

The laws if the US are in play now, they may be different in the UK or Ireland.


If she is hired while wearing a headscarf and nothing is said about a uniform than she can, rightfully, expect that a headscarf is accepted as an acceptable part of a uniform.

[Noir]

The laws if the US are in play now, they may be different in the UK or Ireland.


If she is hired while wearing a headscarf and nothing is said about a uniform than she can, rightfully, expect that a headscarf is accepted as an acceptable part of a uniform.

Yeah, and then when she was made aware that it was not part of the uniform then she still has to conform to the rules. Its not her fault for not knowing, but
that does not make her imune from the rules once she is made aware of them

[Trigg]

Yeah, and then when she was made aware that it was not part of the uniform then she still has to conform to the rules. Its not her fault for not knowing, but
that does not make her imune from the rules once she is made aware of them

The rules (dress code) should have been layed down in the interview. If they were not, than she has a case for discrimination.

If she came to the interview with a headscarf in the US and nothing was said, she would have, rightfully, assumed that the headscarf was acceptable.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Its not whether she was was aware of a dress code or not.
2. The fact that she wears a rag over her head in order to be religious, is whats wrong here.
3. The fact that the average person who see's this and is repulsed by it, should be whats important.
4. I know for a fact that islam is a cult, and it sicken's me to see women ro men wear rags, for their religion.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[SassyLady]

Sorry bout that,


1. Its not whether she was was aware of a dress code or not.
2. The fact that she wears a rag over her head in order to be religious, is whats wrong here.
3. The fact that the average person who see's this and is repulsed by it, should be whats important.
4. I know for a fact that islam is a cult, and it sicken's me to see women ro men wear rags, for their religion.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Well, I couldn't sit back any longer and without saying anything. There are religions that don't allow women to cut their hair, wear makeup, and have to wear long dresses.......do these religious restrictions "sicken" you also?

While I must say that I'm taken aback (because it's not the norm where we live) when I see people wearing scarves or turbans, it does not "sicken" me and I never think of it as a religious edict.

[Noir]

The rules (dress code) should have been layed down in the interview. If they were not, than she has a case for discrimination.

If she came to the interview with a headscarf in the US and nothing was said, she would have, rightfully, assumed that the headscarf was acceptable.

I know that's what she would of assumed, and that's why whoever interviewed her and didn't make the rules clear on the day should get in trouble too. (although i dare saw if she was hired then she signed a contract to the company which would of (or should of) contained rules on the company dress code which she should of read before signing, but we can't be certain of that)

However, when she then was made aware of the rules, she found out her assumption was based upon a mistake at the interview.

Discrimination is "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or sex" ect, she was not unfairly treated, just misinformed, and when she became aware of how she would be treated (i.e. like everyone else) she refused to accept that.

[jimnyc]

I wanted to toss in my 2 cents as I see a few discussing what standards were placed during the interview process. It doesn't matter!

Employees, unless under a specific contract, which I'm confident does not exist in this situation, are considered "at will" employees - which means they can be fired for any reason at all or no reason at all. If the employer is a Yankee's fan and you wear a Red Sox jersey - you can 100% be legally fired for that without recourse.

The ONLY recourse is under the Title VII Discrimination act of 1964, which forbids discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

Now, as to the religious discrimination, it will be up to the plaintiff to prove that he/she asked for an accommodation . The employer would either need to approve the accommodation or prove that it would cause undue hardship to the business. This is what will be argued/decided in court. The employer could also technically argue that the wearing of the scarf compromises workplace safety and/or decreases workplace efficiency, and if successful in that argument they would not need to accommodate the wearing of the scarf.

Also wanted to comment on the mentioning of someone with piercings. Whether allowed during the interview process or even years after being employed wouldn't matter. The employer can suddenly force removal and fire the person if they don't comply. Wearing piercings is not a protected class and the employer can easily decide when and how to enforce or change such policy.

Lastly, with all that said, I believe this woman will win this lawsuit, or rather that A&F will likely settle out of court. There is precedence on this matter already and the courts tend to lean towards the wearer of the head scarves due to their religious beliefs.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,




Well, I couldn't sit back any longer and without saying anything. There are religions that don't allow women to cut their hair, wear makeup, and have to wear long dresses.......do these religious restrictions "sicken" you also?

While I must say that I'm taken aback (because it's not the norm where we live) when I see people wearing scarves or turbans, it does not "sicken" me and I never think of it as a religious edict.





1. No, why should it?
2. Having long skirts is boring if anything, same goes for makeup, I like long hair for women so it looks natural.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[glockmail]

seems to me he has a problem with religion in general.Yet if she was wearing some atheist scarf he'd be all up in arms over this.

[Noir]

Yet if she was wearing some atheist scarf he'd be all up in arms over this.

Thanks for putting your words in my mouth (and just as a by, you do not have permission to put anything of yours in my mouth)

Incase you missed what i have been trying to say, everyone should be treated EQUALLY. If people are allowed to wear things on their heads then i don't care, Muslim veils, Jewish hats, Atheist scarfs, all would be fine.
HOWEVER if the rule is no headwear, then no one, religious or not, should be wearing anything on their head, and if they do they they should be disciplined accordingly.

[glockmail]

I have no desire to put anything in your mouth. Don't be a queer boy.