*Upon This Rock* [Archive] - Debate Policy

chesswarsnow

02-22-2010, 10:20 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. Maybe God is a rock, a real rock?
2. And Jesus being God, wasn't far from explaining it to the apostles.
3. When he said, "Upon this rock I shall build my church."
4. And when in scriptures it says the "Bride of Christ" is a huge building made out of stone, which will some day be brought down from Heaven to be set in Israel, perhaps that too is a sign, or signal, that God, actually is a solid substance, beyond our understanding, totally.
5. Just a thought, not that I'm saying this is reality, but it could be debated???
6. This would be a good debate topic, so I snatched it from another thread.
7. I know this is a heavy topic, not meant for light weights.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Noir

02-22-2010, 11:04 PM

No doubt there's someone out there who thinks so, its just as likely as any other religion

PostmodernProphet

02-22-2010, 11:12 PM

chesswarsnow

02-22-2010, 11:18 PM

Sorry bout that,

uh, chess?....since Jesus was talking about Peter and not God, I expect you would have to change that to maybe Peter was a real rock?.....

1. Yes I can see your point.
2. And I agree with it.
3. That is the classical way that scripture is interpreted.
4. When Peter made his profession and all.
5. That Jesus is, "The Son of God".
6. But just look at this from the angle I am proposing, and I'm not argueing for it at all, neither one of us was there, and didn't see what took place, right?
7. Here's what I think could of happened, lets say after Peter said, what he said, Jesus standing there, touches himself on the chest while saying "Upon This Rock" etc, etc,...Gates of Hell,...etc, etc.....
8. Wouldn't that make a huge difference to what was being said?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

PostmodernProphet

02-23-2010, 08:17 AM

I think the best understanding is to consider that space between your ears to be a real rock.....

glockmail

02-23-2010, 08:34 AM

I've been to St. Pete's. Freaking amazing. :thumb:

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 08:53 AM

Sorry bout that,

I think the best understanding is to consider that space between your ears to be a real rock.....

1. Oh yea of little faith.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 09:47 AM

Sorry bout that,

1. There are plenty of references to solid rock materials Biblicly.
2. The two stone tablets that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai, then the two replacements.
3. Jesus told one that it would be better for some that a stone be wrapped around ones head, and he cast into the sea.
4. A stone was rolled infront of his grave.
5. "He who is without sin, cast the first stone."
6. They gathered stones to throw at him, and he passed right through them.
7. Before he was taken in the Mount of Olives, he was known to have prayed on or near a stone.
8. Whoever falls on this stone shall be forgiven, those who refuse, they shall be grount into powder.
9. Rock of Ages.
10. And untold others, all refernce to a rock and could be meaningful.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 09:54 AM

Sorry bout that,

I've been to St. Pete's. Freaking amazing. :thumb:

1. Did you see anything that confirms this debate?
2. I would love to go myself.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 10:40 AM

Sorry bout that,

1. This came to mind as well.
2. When the Israelites were wondering in the dessert, they came upon the stone, where Moses struck it, and water gushed out.
2. (a) Also God was mad with Moses because God told him to talk to the stone not strike it, Moses stroke the stone, which displeased God.
3. Moses never made it into the *Promise Land*.
3. (a) Later in scripture, it was said, that Jesus was this stone that gushed water in the dessert when the Jews were thirsty.
4. Also when he was dieing on the cross, he was stabbed with a spear, and blood and water came out at the same location, but two seperate streams.
5. This could have meaning too in this debate.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

glockmail

02-23-2010, 01:50 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. Did you see anything that confirms this debate?
2. I would love to go myself.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Christ claimed Peter to be the Rock that the Church would be built on. His crypt is therefore buried below the main altar of St. Peter's Basilica.

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 05:28 PM

Sorry bout that,

Christ claimed Peter to be the Rock that the Church would be built on. His crypt is therefore buried below the main altar of St. Peter's Basilica.

1. So St. Peters profession of statement who Jesus is, and him; Jesus namimg, him; Peter to being the rock, then decades later, still long ago, the church fathers decided, to actually bury him under the alter to honor him, ofcourse, and to actually build the church literally over him.
2. Thats a statement, for sure.
3. I wonder if the buried him first, then built the church, or the other way around?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Kathianne

02-23-2010, 05:36 PM

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 05:40 PM

Sorry bout that,

Well sure, Jesus was so literal, doncha know?

1. Oh yes, I can now see what you're saying, I gotcha.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

glockmail

02-23-2010, 07:18 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. So St. Peters profession of statement who Jesus is, and him; Jesus namimg, him; Peter to being the rock, then decades later, still long ago, the church fathers decided, to actually bury him under the alter to honor him, ofcourse, and to actually build the church literally over him.
2. Thats a statement, for sure.
3. I wonder if the buried him first, then built the church, or the other way around?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

After the crucifixion of Jesus in the second quarter of the 1st century AD, it is recorded in the Biblical book of the Acts of the Apostles that one of his twelve disciples, Simon known as Peter, a fisherman from Galilee, took a leadership position among Jesus' followers and was of great importance in the founding of the Christian Church. The name Peter is "Petrus" in Latin and "Petros" in Greek, deriving from "petra" which means "stone" or "rock" in Greek.

It is believed by a long tradition that Peter, after a ministry of about thirty years, traveled to Rome and met his martyrdom there in the year 64 AD during the reign of the Roman Emperor Nero. His execution was one of the many martyrdoms of Christians following the Great Fire of Rome. According to Origen, Peter was crucified head downwards, by his own request.[9] The crucifixion took place near an ancient Egyptian obelisk in the Circus of Nero.[10] The obelisk now stands in Saint Peter's Square and is revered as a "witness" to Peter's death. It is one of several ancient Obelisks of Rome.[11]

According to tradition, Peter's remains were buried just outside the Circus, on the Mons Vaticanus across the Via Cornelia from the Circus, less than 150 metres (490 ft) from his place of death. The Via Cornelia (which may have been known by another name to the ancient Romans) was a road which ran east-to-west along the north wall of the Circus on land now covered by the southern portions of the Basilica and Saint Peter's Square. Peter's grave was initially marked simply by a red rock, symbolic of his name, but meaningless to non-Christians.[citation needed] A shrine was built on this site some years later. Almost three hundred years later, Old Saint Peter's Basilica was constructed over this site.[10]

[The present building was built on the same site between 1515 and 1650.]

On December 23, 1950, in his pre-Christmas radio broadcast to the world, Pope Pius XII announced the discovery of Saint Peter's tomb.[12] This was the culmination of 10 years of archaeological research under the crypt of the basilica, an area inaccessible since the 9th century. The burial place appears to have been an underground vault, with a structure above it believed to have been built by Pope Anacletus in the 1st century. Human remains were discovered, but it could not be determined if they were, in fact, the bones of the Apostle Peter. Indeed, the area now covered by the Vatican City had been a cemetery for some years before the Circus of Nero was built. It was a burial ground for the numerous executions in the Circus and for many years after the burial of Saint Peter many Christians chose to be buried near him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter%27s_Basilica#Burial_site_of_St._Peter

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 11:23 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. This does get interesting,......

Deuteronomy 32:18 KJV • Read this chapter
Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

Deuteronomy 32:30 KJV • Read this chapter
How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?

Deuteronomy 32:31 KJV • Read this chapter
For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.

Deuteronomy 32:37 KJV • Read this chapter
And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,

Judges 6:21 KJV • Read this chapter
Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the LORD departed out of his sight.

Judges 6:26 KJV • Read this chapter
And build an altar unto the LORD thy God upon the top of this rock, in the ordered place, and take the second bullock, and offer a burnt sacrifice with the wood of the grove which thou shalt cut down.

Numbers 20:8 KJV • Read this chapter
Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.

Numbers 20:11 KJV • Read this chapter
And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.

Deuteronomy 32:4 KJV • Read this chapter
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Judges 13:19 KJV • Read this chapter
So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the LORD: and the angel did wonderously; and Manoah and his wife looked on.

1 Samuel 2:2 KJV • Read this chapter
There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

2 Samuel 22:2 KJV • Read this chapter
And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;

2 Samuel 22:3 KJV • Read this chapter
The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

2 Samuel 22:32 KJV • Read this chapter
For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?

2 Samuel 22:47 KJV • Read this chapter
The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.

2 Samuel 23:3 KJV • Read this chapter
The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.

2. And there is much much more,...

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 11:25 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. One really interesting rock quote, is when satan came to Jesus, and told him, "If thou be the *Son of God*, make these stones into bread."
2. Why did he use stones huh?
3. Strange indeed.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 11:28 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. Here's another one for ya.

Psalm 18:2 KJV • Read this chapter
The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

Psalm 18:31 KJV • Read this chapter
For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

Psalm 18:46 KJV • Read this chapter
The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.

Psalm 27:5 KJV • Read this chapter
For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

Psalm 28:1 KJV • Read this chapter
Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

Psalm 31:2 KJV • Read this chapter
Bow down thine ear to me; deliver me speedily: be thou my strong rock, for an house of defence to save me.

Psalm 31:3 KJV • Read this chapter
For thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for thy name's sake lead me, and guide me.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 11:40 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. Build your house on a *Rock*.
2. Read this one:

Matthew 7:24 KJV • Read this chapter
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 11:42 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. Lots of rock quotes:

Matthew 27:60 KJV • Read this chapter
And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.

Mark 15:46 KJV • Read this chapter
And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.

Luke 6:48 KJV • Read this chapter
He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

02-23-2010, 11:47 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. Treasure trove of rock quotes:

Luke 8:6 KJV • Read this chapter
And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

Luke 8:13 KJV • Read this chapter
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Romans 9:33 KJV • Read this chapter
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1 Corinthians 10:4 KJV • Read this chapter
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Peter 2:8 KJV • Read this chapter
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

02-24-2010, 09:47 AM

Sorry bout that,

1. Also I didn't come across another scripture, one of my all time favorites.
2. A prophet challenges the local seers to find out for sure, if their gods were the real God, or not.
3. The prophet says that a ox should be doused with water, and that their god should burn it up with fire.
4. They fail miserablly, while the prophet mocks them, "Maybe your god is asleep" he says?
5. Anyway he tells them to scream louder and do whatever they do more and louder so he will wake up.
6. Oh that had to be funny.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
7. Anyway, they failed, and he took over.
8. So he put the ox inside a circle of stones, and put barrels of water on the ox.
9. Then he called upon The God, who brought flame of fire from the rocks, that not only consumed the ox, but drank up the water as if licking it up like a tounge lapping up water from the palm of a hand.
10. Now that had to be frightening!
11. Another very interesting *Biblical Rock Scripture*.
12. I known this topic isn't all that easy to digest, and is very heavy for some peoples minds to deal with, and isn't for those of little faith, at all.
13. So I won't take offense from the lack of other contributers.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

BoogyMan

02-24-2010, 10:57 AM

uh, chess?....since Jesus was talking about Peter and not God, I expect you would have to change that to maybe Peter was a real rock?.....

I would argue that Christ was speaking of the confession Peter made, not peter himself.

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The word used in the Greek that is translated Peter is petros in verse 18, and is used in the neuter sense which leads one to understand that the confession made by Peter is the rock in discussion, not Peter himself.

crin63

02-24-2010, 12:19 PM

Sorry bout that,
1. Yes I can see your point.
2. And I agree with it.
3. That is the classical way that scripture is interpreted.
4. When Peter made his profession and all.
5. That Jesus is, "The Son of God".
6. But just look at this from the angle I am proposing, and I'm not argueing for it at all, neither one of us was there, and didn't see what took place, right?
7. Here's what I think could of happened, lets say after Peter said, what he said, Jesus standing there, touches himself on the chest while saying "Upon This Rock" etc, etc,...Gates of Hell,...etc, etc.....
8. Wouldn't that make a huge difference to what was being said?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

I happen to agree that Jesus was in reference to Himself and not Peter. I believe it was Jesus claiming to be the Messiah.

chesswarsnow

02-24-2010, 05:34 PM

Sorry bout that,

I happen to agree that Jesus was in reference to Himself and not Peter. I believe it was Jesus claiming to be the Messiah.

1. I can see it that way too.
2. And it makes more sense if you interpret he's talking about himself.
3. So would you go as far as saying he was describing himself as a *Rock*?
4. Would he be the very foundation onto which that he builds his Church?
5. And what is your understanding of the, *Bride of Christ*?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

02-24-2010, 05:40 PM

Sorry bout that,

I would argue that Christ was speaking of the confession Peter made, not peter himself.

The word used in the Greek that is translated Peter is petros in verse 18, and is used in the neuter sense which leads one to understand that the confession made by Peter is the rock in discussion, not Peter himself.

1. So in your understanding, Jesus is speaking about Peter's actual statement?
2. So Peter's words is what all the Church is built on?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Sir Evil

02-24-2010, 06:04 PM

Sorry bout that,

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Sorry bout that,

your way of posting is way to monotonous.

could be some interesting topics.

but then.......

BoogyMan

02-24-2010, 06:39 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. So in your understanding, Jesus is speaking about Peter's actual statement?
2. So Peter's words is what all the Church is built on?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Howdy Chess,
The church is built on Peter's good confession of the truth as shown below.

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

chesswarsnow

02-24-2010, 07:19 PM

Sorry bout that,

Sorry bout that,

your way of posting is way to monotonous.

could be some interesting topics.

but then.......

1. So you like posting in,....*Stereo*?
2. Wow your kinda groovy dude,....!
3. Why don't you post more?
4. Are you afraid of sounding mono tone???:laugh2:

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Sir Evil

02-24-2010, 07:22 PM

4. Are you afraid of sounding mono tone???:laugh2:

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

:laugh2: :laugh2:

chesswarsnow

02-24-2010, 07:24 PM

Sorry bout that,

Howdy Chess,
The church is built on Peter's good confession of the truth as shown below.

1. Thats how I've heard it over the years.
2. But does it make good sense?
3. Jesus built his entire church off some one else's annoucement.
4. That could be factual, I wonder though.
5. Some think differntly.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

BoogyMan

02-24-2010, 07:50 PM

The words themselves are not where the power in that passage is, it is the confession of their truth that holds the power, Chess.

Jesus built His church on the FACT that He is the son of the God of Heaven who has made Him to be authoritative over all things.

chesswarsnow

02-24-2010, 08:15 PM

Bob

03-11-2010, 02:12 PM

I'm so surprised that so many people can have misinterpreted that verse over so many years. Maybe the name Peter came from the translation about a rock. Maybe not. Doesn't matter.

Christ was referring to the understanding that He is God Incarnate. That's the rock - foundation - of His church.

So maybe it was Peter who stumbled upon the answer to the question, and Christ said "Peter, you finally got the answer out loud!"

Man realizes what God intended, and accepts the realization. That's the rock.

chesswarsnow

03-12-2010, 08:14 AM

Sorry bout that,

I'm so surprised that so many people can have misinterpreted that verse over so many years. Maybe the name Peter came from the translation about a rock. Maybe not. Doesn't matter.

Christ was referring to the understanding that He is God Incarnate. That's the rock - foundation - of His church.

So maybe it was Peter who stumbled upon the answer to the question, and Christ said "Peter, you finally got the answer out loud!"

Man realizes what God intended, and accepts the realization. That's the rock.

1. Okay another one who believes that Christ built his church on what Peter said.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

crin63

03-12-2010, 11:19 AM

Sorry bout that,

1. I can see it that way too.
2. And it makes more sense if you interpret he's talking about himself.
3. So would you go as far as saying he was describing himself as a *Rock*?
4. Would he be the very foundation onto which that he builds his Church?
5. And what is your understanding of the, *Bride of Christ*?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Howdy Chess,
The church is built on Peter's good confession of the truth as shown below.

James I think you provided enough scripture to refute the idea that Jesus was talking about building His church on Peter. Jesus is the Rock.

By the way the name Peter means a piece of a rock or a stone, as in little. It would be interesting to see if in the original Greek New Testament if peter was capitalized.

Peter was a little piece in the church which has Jesus as its foundation. Peter was 1 of 13 Apostles. 12 of which comprised the first church. He was 1/12 of the church. I would consider 1/12 a little piece. That doesn't mean that Peter wasn't used greatly by God because we know that he was.

chesswarsnow

03-12-2010, 10:22 PM

Sorry bout that,

James I think you provided enough scripture to refute the idea that Jesus was talking about building His church on Peter. Jesus is the Rock.

By the way the name Peter means a piece of a rock or a stone, as in little. It would be interesting to see if in the original Greek New Testament if peter was capitalized.

Peter was a little piece in the church which has Jesus as its foundation. Peter was 1 of 13 Apostles. 12 of which comprised the first church. He was 1/12 of the church. I would consider 1/12 a little piece. That doesn't mean that Peter wasn't used greatly by God because we know that he was.

1. So in your opinion, Jesus was refering to himself, not Peters words or confession?
2. Perhaps as I was saying, he (Jesus), touched himself on the chest saying what he said.
3. You know this could be ground shaking doctrine?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

crin63

03-12-2010, 10:50 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. So in your opinion, Jesus was refering to himself, not Peters words or confession?
2. Perhaps as I was saying, he (Jesus), touched himself on the chest saying what he said.
3. You know this could be ground shaking doctrine?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Absolutely Jesus was referring to Himself.

Its no ground shaking doctrine as far as I'm concerned. Its just as simple as studying the Bible without going into it with a predetermined position.

chesswarsnow

03-12-2010, 10:56 PM

Sorry bout that,

Absolutely Jesus was referring to Himself.

Its no ground shaking doctrine as far as I'm concerned. Its just as simple as studying the Bible without going into it with a predetermined position.

1. But I only just thought of this.
2. And for centuries the Church has taught that, *Upon This Rock* statement was refering to Peters words.
3. If what I've proposed is the correct interpretation, then it IS Earth shaking.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

crin63

03-13-2010, 12:24 AM

Sorry bout that,
1. But I only just thought of this.
2. And for centuries the Church has taught that, *Upon This Rock* statement was refering to Peters words.
3. If what I've proposed is the correct interpretation, then it IS Earth shaking.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Baptists have always held that Jesus is the Rock that the church is built on.

The Catholic Church needs Peter to be the Rock to help support their claim he was the first pope since there is nothing else that supports that in the Bible.

chesswarsnow

03-13-2010, 10:18 AM

Sorry bout that,

1. I don't think so.
2. The Baptist also teach it's Peters words Jesus was referring to.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

BoogyMan

03-13-2010, 10:22 AM

Sorry bout that,

1. Yes, I see what your saying, its just hard to wrap my head around the fact that Jesus would build his entire Church on some one else's words.
2. When he is the rock.
3. How can it be, that Peters words are the rock?
4. What's your thoughts?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Once again it was not the words themselves, it was the truth Peter told about Christ. The foundation of the church is Christ and it is His church.

chesswarsnow

03-13-2010, 01:40 PM

Sorry bout that,

Once again it was not the words themselves, it was the truth Peter told about Christ. The foundation of the church is Christ and it is His church.

1. Yes I know, its what he said, and how he said it right?
2. So it would be the words then?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

crin63

03-13-2010, 05:55 PM

Sorry bout that,
1. I don't think so.
2. The Baptist also teach it's Peters words Jesus was referring to.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

John Gill who was a Baptist Pastor in the 1700's said that Jesus was the Rock.

This is from John Gills commentary on the Bible.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee,.... Either besides what he had already said concerning his happiness; or, as the father had revealed something great and valuable, so likewise would he; or inasmuch as he had freely said and declared who, and what he was, in like manner he also would say what Peter was, thou art Peter: intimating, that he was rightly called Peter, or Cephas, by him, when he first became a follower of him, Mat_4:18, which words signify the same thing, a rock, or stone; because of his firmness and solidity, and because he was laid upon the sure foundation, and built on the rock Christ, and was a very fit stone to be laid in the spiritual building. The aptness of this name to him is easy to be seen in his full assurance of faith, as to the person of Christ, and his free, open, and undaunted confession of him.

BoogyMan

03-13-2010, 06:36 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. Yes I know, its what he said, and how he said it right?
2. So it would be the words then?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

It is not the words, it is the TRUTH that was spoken, the good confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Jesus is building His church upon this TRUTH, His Sonship to the God of Heaven.

The rock illustration was used because the truth was retold in this instance by Peter (petros meaning rock).

chesswarsnow

03-13-2010, 08:57 PM

Sorry bout that,

It is not the words, it is the TRUTH that was spoken, the good confession that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Jesus is building His church upon this TRUTH, His Sonship to the God of Heaven.

The rock illustration was used because the truth was retold in this instance by Peter (petros meaning rock).

1. Oh so it was the sounds the words made then?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

03-13-2010, 09:05 PM

Sorry bout that,

John Gill who was a Baptist Pastor in the 1700's said that Jesus was the Rock.

This is from John Gills commentary on the Bible.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee,.... Either besides what he had already said concerning his happiness; or, as the father had revealed something great and valuable, so likewise would he; or inasmuch as he had freely said and declared who, and what he was, in like manner he also would say what Peter was, thou art Peter: intimating, that he was rightly called Peter, or Cephas, by him, when he first became a follower of him, Mat_4:18, which words signify the same thing, a rock, or stone; because of his firmness and solidity, and because he was laid upon the sure foundation, and built on the rock Christ, and was a very fit stone to be laid in the spiritual building. The aptness of this name to him is easy to be seen in his full assurance of faith, as to the person of Christ, and his free, open, and undaunted confession of him.

1. So Jesus is building a stone building, him being the actual foundation then?
2. All those who are his will be positioned and fitted into this building?
3. Literally,....???
4. If eternity is a long time, if we are converted into stones, well at least we won't have issues with old age, and the things that follow old age?
5. Just a thought?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

03-14-2010, 10:01 AM

Sorry bout that,

1. Could it be that we are indeed the Church?
2. When Jesus returns those whom did well and were apart of the Church, will at the end actually be the *Church*?
3. Where we would be fittly framed all together upon the real foundaton Jesus Christ the Lord.
4. Where when Jesus would have Mass we would be the actual location of the Mass?
5. Where those who were forgiven were then converted into stone, but this stone has *Life Everlasting*.
6. Those of you not within the Church will think I've flipped out or on dope, some of those in side the Church may too.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

crin63

03-14-2010, 10:33 AM

Sorry bout that,
1. So Jesus is building a stone building, him being the actual foundation then?
2. All those who are his will be positioned and fitted into this building?
3. Literally,....???
4. If eternity is a long time, if we are converted into stones, well at least we won't have issues with old age, and the things that follow old age?
5. Just a thought?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Obviously its not literal. People aren't going to be turned into stones to fashion a building.

The rule for reading the Bible is: If the literal sense makes sense, seek no other sense. If the literal sense makes no sense, then seek another sense (that is in harmony with the rest of the Bible).

Sorry bout that,

1. Could it be that we are indeed the Church?
2. When Jesus returns those whom did well and were apart of the Church, will at the end actually be the *Church*?
3. Where we would be fittly framed all together upon the real foundaton Jesus Christ the Lord.
4. Where when Jesus would have Mass we would be the actual location of the Mass?
5. Where those who were forgiven were then converted into stone, but this stone has *Life Everlasting*.
6. Those of you not within the Church will think I've flipped out or on dope, some of those in side the Church may too.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

The members of a local gathering are the church. There is no universal church, however all those who are genuinely saved through faith in Jesus will make up the kingdom someday.

BoogyMan

03-14-2010, 12:21 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. Oh so it was the sounds the words made then?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

You cannot be this thick. It was the TRUTH of the confession, Chess.

chesswarsnow

03-14-2010, 05:48 PM

Sorry bout that,

You cannot be this thick. It was the TRUTH of the confession, Chess.

1. Sure I can be this thick, thick as a brick,..hehehe,..... :)
2. Explain why Jesus Christ would build his Church on Peter or anyones confession of truth?
3. Seeing that he himself is God, and wouldn't need help from a man, to build anything!
4. He built the universe, as I recall.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

chesswarsnow

03-15-2010, 11:37 AM

Sorry bout that,

Obviously its not literal. People aren't going to be turned into stones to fashion a building.

The rule for reading the Bible is: If the literal sense makes sense, seek no other sense. If the literal sense makes no sense, then seek another sense (that is in harmony with the rest of the Bible).

The members of a local gathering are the church. There is no universal church, however all those who are genuinely saved through faith in Jesus will make up the kingdom someday.

1. Why couldn't it be literal?
2. There is nothing impossible with God, right?
3. What can make sense to God, you won't make any sense of.
4. We Catholic's laid clian to the Universal Church some years ago,...like 2000 years ago,....so you seem to say there isn't one, how is that?
5. Just the Baptists are going to make it into the Kingdom of Heaven?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

crin63

03-15-2010, 11:54 AM

Sorry bout that,
1. Why couldn't it be literal?
2. There is nothing impossible with God, right?
3. What can make sense to God, you won't make any sense of.
4. We Catholic's laid clian to the Universal Church some years ago,...like 2000 years ago,....so you seem to say there isn't one, how is that?
5. Just the Baptists are going to make it into the Kingdom of Heaven?
Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

1) because thats ridiculous
2) True but thats still ridiculous
3) if God didn't want us to understand then He wouldn't have put it down on paper to read.
4) There is no, "The Church" unless you are in reference to a local church. Churches are local congregations.
5) No, Baptists are not the only people who will make it into the Kingdom. Only people who have come to Christ by faith believing on Him will. There is no way to make yourself good enough to deserve heaven. You cant work for it, you cant do anything to earn it, you can do nothing apart from God.

Abbey Marie

03-15-2010, 03:12 PM

Listen to them, Sir James. They are right.

chesswarsnow

03-15-2010, 11:09 PM

82Marine89

03-15-2010, 11:34 PM

Sorry bout that,

1. This topic is bigger than all of us.
2. And its not about who is right or wrong.
3. Its about whats possible.
4. There are many clue's pointing to this as a possibility.
5. So anyone who has the understanding to reply can.
6. Sometimes people resist to learn, maybe this could be one of those times.
7. Remember the *Bride of Christ*, is a stone stucture that comes down from above one day.
8. You should learn about this.

Regards,
SirJimBobofTicksAss

1. There are thousands of religions. A religious belief is more justified from someone who studied many other religions than from an individual who never looked into other faiths. How many have you studied?

2. If there is a God, He would judge people not by whether they believe in Him, but in the lives they led. It would seem impossible that he would send a wonderful, giving, caring person to Hell simply because that wonderful, giving, caring person didn't believe in Him. Also, are billions of people in China and India going to hell because they believe in Buddhist or Hindu faiths?

chesswarsnow

03-16-2010, 09:17 AM

Sorry bout that,

1. There are thousands of religions. A religious belief is more justified from someone who studied many other religions than from an individual who never looked into other faiths. How many have you studied?

2. If there is a God, He would judge people not by whether they believe in Him, but in the lives they led. It would seem impossible that he would send a wonderful, giving, caring person to Hell simply because that wonderful, giving, caring person didn't believe in Him. Also, are billions of people in China and India going to hell because they believe in Buddhist or Hindu faiths?

1) First off; this question has nothing to do with this topic.
2) Second off; this as well has nothing to do with this topic.
3.) Third off; I do appreciate you not flaming mmyself or my topic, shows improvement.
4.) Fourth off; on question (2), just that you know I know how this whole, *Why do good people who do not believe in Jesus, have to still go to hell*, and all, I will throw you a bone on this question in another thread.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas