A few questions for Hell Believers... [Archive] - Debate Policy

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-Cp

02-17-2010, 12:38 AM

• If Hell is real, is justice being served considering the fact that finite crimes would receive infinite punishment?

• If Hell is real, since all is out of Jesus Christ, does that mean Hell comes out of Jesus Christ? (Rom. 36:11)

• If Hell is real and all the different types of crimes committed here on earth receive the same punishment (endless torture) does "justice" not suffer?

• If Hell is real and a person gets caught stealing and goes to jail for it and does his time, is it just for God to still punish him eternally for that crime? Is this not "double indemnity?"

• If Hell is real, since some people receive many chances to "get saved," some receive only a few chances and billions have never even received one chance, does that make God a respecter of persons? (Acts 10:34, James 3:17)

• If Hell is real and is the fate of all mankind because of Adam's transgression, if all are not saved through the last Adam, Jesus Christ, does that not make the transgression of the first Adam greater than the redeeming act of Jesus? (Rom. Chapter 5)

• If Hell is real and most of mankind is doomed to go there, does that not violate the declaration of Paul who said that Christ's righteous act on the cross gave ALL mankind a free gift resulting in justification of life?! (Rom. 5:18)

• If Hell is real and God's wrath abides upon billions of human beings FOREVER, some being your relatives and friends (or it could be you), doesn't that violate the Scripture which says His anger WILL come to an end? (Isaiah 57:16-18)

• If Hell was real and you went there, would you consider that good? (Psalm 145:9 says all will praise Him.)

• If Hell was real and you were consigned to it, would you praise Him for sending you there? (Psalm 145:10)

rest here:

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/FromHellsEternalDeath.htm

Mr. P

02-17-2010, 12:48 AM

A "FEW" questions?

You need to stick with wine as yer hobby and stay away from religion.:poke:

82Marine89

02-17-2010, 01:25 AM

What the Hell?

darin

02-17-2010, 04:49 AM

Righto - that's not a 'few questions' - that's a Fillibuster.

sgtdmski

02-17-2010, 04:59 AM

If Hell is real, you can avoid going there by accepting Jesus Christ as you Savior.

So despite your long list of questions, the only thing you to do is accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

One simple task and you can avoid it.

So pretty much despite your long list of questions, there is only one thing you must do. If you can't do that, well then you deserve Hell!

dmk

revelarts

02-17-2010, 07:25 AM

Noir

02-17-2010, 07:39 AM

crin63

02-17-2010, 07:44 AM

• If Hell is real, is justice being served considering the fact that finite crimes would receive infinite punishment?

Since finite creatures cannot withstand infinite punishment it has be finite punishment for infinite period of time. Hell is like booking until the sinner is processed, sentenced and moved to prison as in the Lake of Fire.

• If Hell is real, since all is out of Jesus Christ, does that mean Hell comes out of Jesus Christ? (Rom. 36:11)

God created and maintains hell for the punishment of sins. The sinner goes there because he clung to his sins rather than Christ.

• If Hell is real and all the different types of crimes committed here on earth receive the same punishment (endless torture) does "justice" not suffer?

No, of course not. You already answered this in your first question. Every sin is a crime against God deserving an infinite degree of punishment.

• If Hell is real and a person gets caught stealing and goes to jail for it and does his time, is it just for God to still punish him eternally for that crime? Is this not "double indemnity?"

You are trying to apply mans standards to God. See the last response.

• If Hell is real, since some people receive many chances to "get saved," some receive only a few chances and billions have never even received one chance, does that make God a respecter of persons? (Acts 10:34, James 3:17)

No! Its only by grace that any are saved.

• If Hell is real and is the fate of all mankind because of Adam's transgression, if all are not saved through the last Adam, Jesus Christ, does that not make the transgression of the first Adam greater than the redeeming act of Jesus? (Rom. Chapter 5)

No, not all when most people reject Jesus.

• If Hell is real and most of mankind is doomed to go there, does that not violate the declaration of Paul who said that Christ's righteous act on the cross gave ALL mankind a free gift resulting in justification of life?! (Rom. 5:18)

In order to receive that free gift they must come to Christ, most wont. They can be handing out free cars in Texas but unless you go there and receive that car its not yours.

Joyful HoneyBee

02-17-2010, 07:48 AM

Abbey Marie

02-17-2010, 10:54 AM

Which crimes are finite? In many cases, there are eternal ripple effects/consequences.

revelarts

02-17-2010, 11:14 AM

LOL @ the video

So an Alcoholic druggie has a night of cold turkey, and amidst this time when he thought he was going to die he suddenly thinks 'oh no, i may spend entirety in hell' and in a moment of impossibly laughable self pity turned to the super natural.

Um.. no the clip doesn't make clear that he had collapse and was taken to the hospital... was diagnosed with Pancreatic cancer... get your crap in order you are dead. And it doesn't cover his whole experience. There are several others with similar even more dramatic experiences, some had little to zero religious upbringing or influence.

Noir, just curious what do you think happens when people die?

Abbey Marie

02-17-2010, 11:15 AM

Um.. no the clip doesn't make clear that he had collapse and was taken to the hospital... was diagnosed with Pancreatic cancer... get your crap in order you are dead. And it doesn't cover his whole experience. There are several others with similar even more dramatic experiences, some had little to zero religious upbringing or influence.

Noir, just curious what do you thinks happens when people die?

:popcorn:

crin63

02-17-2010, 11:32 AM

'Hell' in scripture is generally translated 'grave' and in a couple of places it is intended to make reference to the garbage dumps stationed outside of towns and villages .

This is not to be confused with the lake of fire into which offensive things will be thrown and burned up.

A good Strong's Concordance goes a long way when studying scripture.

This is from the previous thread Cp started about hell.

http://debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=266567&postcount=22

There are 2 other meanings of hell in the NT that were left out of your post.
hadēs
hah'-dace ; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.

tartaroō
From Τάρταρος Tartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: - cast down to hell.

tartaroo was only used in 2Pe 2:4

You left a little bit out of your definition of hell. How the word was used.
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin; valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.

All 3 are taken from Strong's Concordance.

Hades is the place of the unsaved dead and where Abraham's bosom was. There was a great gulf between the 2. As seen in the parable of the, "Rich man and Lazarus" in Luke 16. That's why the rich man was able to talk to Abraham. It also demonstrates the torment part of hell.

Because there were actual names mentioned in this parable that would mean this was probably an actual event recorded and not just a story to teach a lesson.

With regards to death and hell being cast into the lake of fire, it makes sense that its referencing people being cast into the lake of fire because of the same reference to hell in the parable above.

Noir

02-17-2010, 11:38 AM

BoogyMan

02-17-2010, 12:23 PM

I find it truly interesting how those who couldn't care less about Bible topics want to expound on them as if they had some understanding. The one that jumps out to me the most is the last "question" in the OP.

God wants all men to be saved, but he isn't going to make you follow His will, you have to chose His path.

It looks like you have plagiarized your "questions" from a site like the one below.

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/FromHellsEternalDeath.htm

DragonStryk72

02-17-2010, 12:29 PM

• If Hell is real, is justice being served considering the fact that finite crimes would receive infinite punishment?

• If Hell is real, since all is out of Jesus Christ, does that mean Hell comes out of Jesus Christ? (Rom. 36:11)

Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.

• If Hell is real and all the different types of crimes committed here on earth receive the same punishment (endless torture) does "justice" not suffer?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and a person gets caught stealing and goes to jail for it and does his time, is it just for God to still punish him eternally for that crime? Is this not "double indemnity?"
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, since some people receive many chances to "get saved," some receive only a few chances and billions have never even received one chance, does that make God a respecter of persons? (Acts 10:34, James 3:17)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and is the fate of all mankind because of Adam's transgression, if all are not saved through the last Adam, Jesus Christ, does that not make the transgression of the first Adam greater than the redeeming act of Jesus? (Rom. Chapter 5)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and most of mankind is doomed to go there, does that not violate the declaration of Paul who said that Christ's righteous act on the cross gave ALL mankind a free gift resulting in justification of life?! (Rom. 5:18)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and God's wrath abides upon billions of human beings FOREVER, some being your relatives and friends (or it could be you), doesn't that violate the Scripture which says His anger WILL come to an end? (Isaiah 57:16-18)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell was real and you went there, would you consider that good? (Psalm 145:9 says all will praise Him.)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell was real and you were consigned to it, would you praise Him for sending you there? (Psalm 145:10)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and most of mankind will fall into this fiery pit, if there is not escape out of it, would this not violate the Scripture that says He raises ALL who fall? (Psalm 145:14)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is really a place from which there is no escape, why does God turn man to destruction and then give the command to return from it? (Psalm 90:3) If Hell is "everlasting" destruction," how can man return? (2 Thess. 1:9)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and most find their way to it, was Jesus lying when He said that He would "draw" ("drag" in the original Greek) all mankind unto Himself? (John 12:32)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, since Jesus ultimately fills ALL things, will Jesus fill Hell as well? ((Eph. 4:10) How can Hell be eternal separation from God is Jesus fills Hell with Himself?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and Jesus is the Heir of all things, does that mean He inherits Hell as well? (Heb. 1:2)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, since God will have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:3 KJV), does that mean God's power is not strong enough to have His will fulfilled? Is man's will more powerful than God's?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, would that not violate the plain Scripture of the "restitution of all things?" (Acts 3:21)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and eternal separation from God, why does the Scripture say, "All flesh will come to God?" (Psalm 65:2-4)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and most people don't get "born again," doesn't that make abortionists the greatest evangelists of all since they kill the babies before they can enter the world to begin their life of sin? (Gory thought, but think about it.)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and there is no escape from it, how can the Scriptures speak of the gathering of all things into Christ? (Eph. 1:10)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and God were human, we would give Him a death sentence for all the cruel things we say He is going to do to most of mankind?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and most people around you are on their way to it, how can you talk with them and not beg them each and everyday to be saved? How can you not go crazy at just the thought of their fate?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and you have "unsaved" family, friends, and business associates, when was the last time you went to them on your knees begging them to get saved? And if you haven't done this recently yet still believe their fate is everlasting punishment, don't you deserve to go to Hell yourself for being so callused and non-caring?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, how does the threat of endlessly torturing us convince us that God loves us and that we should love Him with all our heart, soul, mind and strength?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell was real and the "full" gospel was designed to reach all mankind, doesn't that make the results of the "full" gospel pretty "empty" considering that fact that most people are in Hell according to traditional theology?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell was real, does that mean Jesus raised the wicked from an unconscious state, make them alive only to be endlessly tortured? Wouldn't it be more merciful to just leave them eternally unconscious (which some believe)? (Ecc. 9:5; John 11:11)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and God only loves those who love Him, what better is He than the sinner? (Luke 6:32-33) Can you REALLY call eternally torturing your own children love?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, since "love thinketh no evil," can God design the ultimate evil of a single soul? (1 Cor. 13:5)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, since"love worketh no ill," can God inflict, or cause, or allow to be inflicted, an endless ill? (Rom. 13:10)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, since we are forbidden to be overcome by evil, can we safely suppose that God will be overcome by evil? (Rom. 12:21) Would not the infliction of endless punishment prove that God HAD been overcome by evil?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, if man does wrong in returning evil for evil, would not God do wrong if He was to do the same? (Rom. 12:20,21) Would not endless punishment be the return of evil for evil? As we are commanded "to overcome evil with good," may we not safely infer that God will do the same? Would the infliction of endless punishment be overcoming evil with good?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, if God hates the sinner, does the sinner do wrong in hating Him?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, if God loves His enemies now, will he not always love them? Is God a changeable being? (James 1:17)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, is it just for God to be "kind to the evil and unthankful," in their present life? (Luke 6:35) Would it be unjust for God to be kind to all men in a future state?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, if all men justly deserve endless punishment, will not those who are saved, be saved unjustly?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, would it be merciful in God to inflict endless punishment--that is, merciful to the sufferer?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, if the demands of divine justice are opposed to the requirements of mercy, is not God divided against Himself? If the requirements of mercy are opposed to the demands of the justice of God, can His kingdom stand? -- (Mark 3:24)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, does not judgment triumph over mercy and thus contradict this Scripture? (James 2:13)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, if you had sufficient power would you not deliver all men from sin? If God WOULD save all men, but CANNOT , is He infinite in power?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, if God CAN save all men, but WILL NOT , is He infinite in goodness?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and created by God, does it not stand against God's DESIRE the salvation of all men? (1 Tim. 2:3-4) Since God is righteous, must not the desire for universal salvation be a RIGHTEOUS desire? Is it true, that "the desire of the righteous shall be granted?" -- (Prov. 10:24)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, would endless misery benefit the Almighty, as the INFLICTOR ? Would endless misery benefit the saints, as SPECTATORS ? Would endless misery benefit the sinner, as the SUFFERER ?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and endless punishment is the "wages of sin," could the sinner ever receive payment in full? (Rom. 6:23)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real and sin is infinite, can it be true that, "where sin abounded grace did MUCH MORE abound?" --(Rom. 5:20)
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, if ONE sin deserves an eternity of punishment, how much punishment will TEN sins deserve?
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.
• If Hell is real, yet God "openeth his hand and satisfieth the desire of every living thing" -- (Ps. 145:16), If I desire all men be saved, will God satisfy my desire? Is it good to desire all men to be saved? "This is GOOD and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior who DESIRES ALL MEN TO BE SAVED and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:3,4).
Don't know, ask the guy that runs the universe.

Yeah, think that about covers it. Okay, note to other faithful on this site: Stop responding to him and Noir, seriously. You're feeding the trolls, let's just let it go, and move on to something that matters more, like the state of Jon & Kate's divorce.

revelarts

02-17-2010, 12:57 PM

And what difference does that make?

When you die you are dead, that is that.

What difference does it make? that is the question. Just seems to me if your sure when your dead your done that you wouldn't waste your time arguing about it. life's too short, "eat drink and be marry for tomorrow we die". I just don't understand all the the righteous anger, scorn and energy many atheist put into trashing religion. What difference does it make if someone believes in a invisible spaghetti monsters, the force, Gaia, Jesus, Mohamed or a rock. If your absolutely sure we are all gonna just die and that's the end any way. If there's no God or gods or afterlife and we are "just" animals, then i guess, in this short life, it's really only about power and sex. Survival of the fittest. Our place in the heard. Along with that it seems as if lying, cheating, stealing and killing, if you can get away with it seems as if it'd be O.K.. (ethics being man made and all, knock the philosopher/theologians on the head and take their wives. What would Genghis Khan do?). If you look over history I think a case could be made for that. However people like Moses and Jesus, -in any unbiased reading of history-, seem to bring something different to the table than just personal or familial gain. mm, well ... So maybe it does make some difference here on earth if people think it's a good thing to treat there neighbors kindly. and that men are create equal and women shouldn't be sold in prostitution etc... I mean without religion some tribes will get those ideas too, others won't but it doesn't really matter because we're all just gonna die anyway, right dude?

jimnyc

02-17-2010, 01:01 PM

It looks like you have plagiarized your "questions" from a site like the one below.

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/FromHellsEternalDeath.htm

Don't accuse him of plagiarism, and don't point out to him that it's against the law and that I, the owner, will ultimately be responsible. He has a LONG history of posting entire articles without permission - but you will be called a pompous asshat if you ask him to correct what he is doing.

HogTrash

02-17-2010, 01:14 PM

I am not a believer in Hell or Satan but I believe the premise for their existance is not to punish crime, but as a deterant for a lifetime of sin, greed and selfish disregard of others...The really bad people.

God realizes that man is weak of mind and flesh and will occasionally succumb to life's temptations and will not punish those for moments of bad judgement, but a lifetime of such indescretions is unforgivable.

Noir

02-17-2010, 01:17 PM

HogTrash

02-17-2010, 01:20 PM

Unforgivable? Surly god is all powerful, i.e. all forgiving.Those are my personal beliefs...I speak for no one else, worldly or other.

Noir

02-17-2010, 01:28 PM

Those are my personal beliefs...I speak for no one else, worldly or other.

Indeedy, and i am asking about your beliefs, no one elses, you do not think that your God is powerful enough to forgive whatever he wants and that some things are "unforgivable"?

HogTrash

02-17-2010, 01:38 PM

Indeedy, and i am asking about your beliefs, no one elses, you do not think that your God is powerful enough to forgive whatever he wants and that some things are "unforgivable"?As I have explained before, I do not practice any organized religion and IMO God does not forgive, condone or condemn our actions.

Perhaps I will create a thread explaining my spiritual beliefs...You might find it very interesting young Noir.

Noir

02-17-2010, 01:44 PM

As I have explained before, I do not practice any organized religion and IMO God does not forgive, condone or condemn our actions.

Perhaps I will create a thread explaining my spiritual beliefs...You might find it very interesting young Noir.

Okie dokes.

PostmodernProphet

02-17-2010, 03:41 PM

Indeedy, and i am asking about your beliefs, no one elses, you do not think that your God is powerful enough to forgive whatever he wants and that some things are "unforgivable"?

he has said there is one thing he will not forgive.....the refusal to believe in him.....

Abbey Marie

02-17-2010, 04:04 PM

Indeedy, and i am asking about your beliefs, no one elses, you do not think that your God is powerful enough to forgive whatever he wants and that some things are "unforgivable"?

There is only one unforgivable sin, Noir. It's called blaspheming the Spirit. Look it up.

HogTrash

02-17-2010, 04:06 PM

he has said there is one thing he will not forgive.....the refusal to believe in him.....Doesn't that sound a bit arrogant and egotistical for the loving caring compassionate son of God?

Judging from the teachings of Jesus Christ I would think he would be above such conceited pride.

Noir

02-17-2010, 04:27 PM

he has said there is one thing he will not forgive.....the refusal to believe in him.....

Indeedy, unless ofcourse he changes his mind.

avatar4321

02-17-2010, 07:31 PM

• If Hell is real, is justice being served considering the fact that finite crimes would receive infinite punishment?

Is the punishment infinite or just your current state of being? Of course, this depends alot on how you define Hell.

• If Hell is real, since all is out of Jesus Christ, does that mean Hell comes out of Jesus Christ? (Rom. 36:11)

Im fairly certain Romans doesn't have 36 chapters.

• If Hell is real and all the different types of crimes committed here on earth receive the same punishment (endless torture) does "justice" not suffer?

Not if you understand what Endless/Eternal punishment is.

• If Hell is real and a person gets caught stealing and goes to jail for it and does his time, is it just for God to still punish him eternally for that crime? Is this not "double indemnity?"

Again, you need to understand what God means by Eternal punishment.

And it seems that Heaven and Hell are less about what you do and more about who you are.

• If Hell is real, since some people receive many chances to "get saved," some receive only a few chances and billions have never even received one chance, does that make God a respecter of persons? (Acts 10:34, James 3:17)

Everyone has a chance to accept Jesus Christ. "For this reason was the Gospel preached unto those who are dead" That's why Christ preached to the dead.

• If Hell is real and is the fate of all mankind because of Adam's transgression, if all are not saved through the last Adam, Jesus Christ, does that not make the transgression of the first Adam greater than the redeeming act of Jesus? (Rom. Chapter 5)

No unclean thing can enter into the Presence of God. However, Christ has paid for the transgression of Adam. We are punished for our own sins and not for Adam's transgression.

• If Hell is real and most of mankind is doomed to go there, does that not violate the declaration of Paul who said that Christ's righteous act on the cross gave ALL mankind a free gift resulting in justification of life?! (Rom. 5:18)

Not at all. Christ has given all mankind a free gift of Immortality. Everyone who lives whether good or evil will rise in the Resurrection of the Just or of the Unjust. We will all be given our life back because of Christ.

Eternal Life is another matter all together. Christ has provided a way for us to receive Eternal life. But it's conditional on accepting Him and entering into the Covenants He has set forth to cleanse ourselves from sin.

• If Hell is real and God's wrath abides upon billions of human beings FOREVER, some being your relatives and friends (or it could be you), doesn't that violate the Scripture which says His anger WILL come to an end? (Isaiah 57:16-18)

Again, What does Eternal punishment mean?

• If Hell was real and you went there, would you consider that good? (Psalm 145:9 says all will praise Him.)

Yes. Because God's decisions are just and for our own betterment. It would be easier to suffer punishment than to be in the Presence of God in my sins.

• If Hell was real and you were consigned to it, would you praise Him for sending you there? (Psalm 145:10)

Not sure how this is any different. The answer is still yes.