Christians are their own worst enemy

[-Cp]

By Joshua Guild

I dedicate this article to my Atheist friends out there because I know they will love it.

Most of the “church” believes the world is getting worse and that evil will win the battle over the earth. The church will never improve a world they have written off as evil. Few Christians actually have faith in good as you can see by the emphasis they place on witch hunts. Most Christian's have become pessimistic and cynical people known for seeing the worst in society. Most Christians repel the love of God, the love of others and even the love of their own children. If you cannot accept your redeemed self then you will never believe God and others will accept you. Christians miss out on true spiritual community allowing their wounds to sabotage any hope for healthy relationships. Christians hide their sins because they are afraid others will judge them in the same way they judge others. True Church starts in the heart and Christian’s hearts are often divided. Christian parents unknowingly abandon their own children to a “church” system that discourages people from being themselves. All these hidden hearts are left feeling unknown and filled with loneliness. Worst of all Christians are actually playing a role in the destruction of modern society, but in arrogance they walk through life believing they are improving the world.

The good works of Christians are often rooted in ego/insecurity or the desire to be a hero because many ultimately feel worthless. The world watches most Christian people treat God like a Prozac pill as they seek His presence like a drug to make them feel good and to cure their insecurities. Many Christians walk around bragging that God is “using them” to fill some authoritative role as His agents over the average in society. Christians love to appear smart and many have been “right” for so long that there pride refuses to let them be wrong. Many Christians love to defeat the Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses on there door steps and then they call it apologetics as they brag about it to there Christian friends. When Christians serve it is often more about feeling good then actually loving the people they are serving. After volunteering Christians will often talk about there good works and elevate themselves higher then they ought. Christians usually don't care enough to even know the names of the homeless and the less fortunate they serve. Why? Because serving is often more about the warm feeling and the high they get then the people they serve. This is why it is so easy for churches to waste millions of dollars on beautiful buildings and worthless programs that improve their so-called images rather then truly tending to the needs of the poor, the widows and the orphans.

[HogTrash]

So many words along with the time and effort to write them down, dedicated to the sole purpose of hatred for a religious group.

Your marxist handlers sure did a job on you...The funny thing is, you are so sure of how much smarter you are than everyone else.

Relax...There is no need for all that hatred my little small minded friend...We are all just people who are simply looking for answers.

Besides, you should be concentrating on the really bad people in the world who actually do mean to do you and your family harm.

[SassyLady]

By Joshua Guild

I dedicate this article to my Atheist friends out there because I know they will love it.

Most of the “church” believes the world is getting worse and that evil will win the battle over the earth. The church will never improve a world they have written off as evil. Few Christians actually have faith in good as you can see by the emphasis they place on witch hunts. Most Christian's have become pessimistic and cynical people known for seeing the worst in society. Most Christians repel the love of God, the love of others and even the love of their own children. If you cannot accept your redeemed self then you will never believe God and others will accept you. Christians miss out on true spiritual community allowing their wounds to sabotage any hope for healthy relationships. Christians hide their sins because they are afraid others will judge them in the same way they judge others. True Church starts in the heart and Christian’s hearts are often divided. Christian parents unknowingly abandon their own children to a “church” system that discourages people from being themselves. All these hidden hearts are left feeling unknown and filled with loneliness. Worst of all Christians are actually playing a role in the destruction of modern society, but in arrogance they walk through life believing they are improving the world.

The good works of Christians are often rooted in ego/insecurity or the desire to be a hero because many ultimately feel worthless. The world watches most Christian people treat God like a Prozac pill as they seek His presence like a drug to make them feel good and to cure their insecurities. Many Christians walk around bragging that God is “using them” to fill some authoritative role as His agents over the average in society. Christians love to appear smart and many have been “right” for so long that there pride refuses to let them be wrong. Many Christians love to defeat the Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses on there door steps and then they call it apologetics as they brag about it to there Christian friends. When Christians serve it is often more about feeling good then actually loving the people they are serving. After volunteering Christians will often talk about there good works and elevate themselves higher then they ought. Christians usually don't care enough to even know the names of the homeless and the less fortunate they serve. Why? Because serving is often more about the warm feeling and the high they get then the people they serve. This is why it is so easy for churches to waste millions of dollars on beautiful buildings and worthless programs that improve their so-called images rather then truly tending to the needs of the poor, the widows and the orphans.

Instead of bashing Chrisitanity CP - why don't you point out all the "good" atheism has done for the world? All you atheisits do is point out what is wrong/doesn't work about religion and mainly Christianity. Show me how atheism has made the world a better place.

Are the atheists in Afrian helping? What are they doing to stop the genocide? Besides sitting on the sidelines and sneering at the "do gooders"
The good works of Christians are often rooted in ego/insecurity or the desire to be a hero because many ultimately feel worthless.Who cares why they are doing it........as long as they are actually doing something.

[chloe]

Who are your atheist friends you dedicated this too?

[-Cp]

Who are your atheist friends you dedicated this too?

If you notice, Chloe - I did not author it... his name is Joshua..


So many words along with the time and effort to write them down, dedicated to the sole purpose of hatred for a religious group.

Your marxist handlers sure did a job on you...The funny thing is, you are so sure of how much smarter you are than everyone else.

Relax...There is no need for all that hatred my little small minded friend...We are all just people who are simply looking for answers.

Besides, you should be concentrating on the really bad people in the world who actually do mean to do you and your family harm.

Hog - if you read that as hatred, then you've missed the point...

It's always important that we examine ourselves, our motives etc..

We'll never be able to fully love our enemies until we first experience the true-love that is God..


Instead of bashing Chrisitanity CP - why don't you point out all the "good" atheism has done for the world? All you atheisits do is point out what is wrong/doesn't work about religion and mainly Christianity. Show me how atheism has made the world a better place.

Are the atheists in Afrian helping? What are they doing to stop the genocide? Besides sitting on the sidelines and sneering at the "do gooders"

Who cares why they are doing it........as long as they are actually doing something.

Going after the Atheists isn't my place - it's expected of them to not be able to demonstrate love and grace to others as they don't yet KNOW Love...

It is incumbent, however, on those who call themselves "Christians" to be able to have a clear idea of how we should live our lives and love those around us. .

[Gaffer]

If you notice, Chloe - I did not author it... his name is Joshua..

You didn't answer her question.

[jimnyc]

If you notice, Chloe - I did not author it... his name is Joshua..

Care to cite the source then so we don't run afoul of copyright laws...

[Kathianne]

Care to cite the source then so we don't run afoul of copyright laws...

I found it:

http://www.holytriage.info/organic-church/christians-are-their-own-worst-enemy.html

[-Cp]

Care to cite the source then so we don't run afoul of copyright laws...

Josh is a buddy of mine, there is no "copyright law" with it..

[-Cp]

You didn't answer her question.

I did...

[jimnyc]

Josh is a buddy of mine, there is no "copyright law" with it..

There most certainly is, unless he gave ME written permission to reproduce it in its entirety. The board and it's owner are who are responsible for ensuring that all articles/stories posted follow within copyright regulations/laws. Even if he gave you permission, he could very easily turn around and file a complaint about me for allowing it to be reproduced on my website.

Kathianne took care of it so its no longer an issue anyway.

[-Cp]

There most certainly is, unless he gave ME written permission to reproduce it in its entirety. The board and it's owner are who are responsible for ensuring that all articles/stories posted follow within copyright regulations/laws. Even if he gave you permission, he could very easily turn around and file a complaint about me for allowing it to be reproduced on my website.

Kathianne took care of it so its no longer an issue anyway.

Not true at all..

He posted this on his Facebook - there is no assumed copyright at all..

It's in the "public domain"...

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. I read it, and it isn't worth copyrighting.
2. I wish I wouldn't of read it, its a load of crap.
3. Anyone who would be proud of it is a *Complete Moron*.
4. If the *Moron* fits, tough shit.:laugh2::laugh2:



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[jimnyc]

Not true at all..

He posted this on his Facebook - there is no assumed copyright at all..

It's in the "public domain"...

I don't have time to teach you the law but suffice to say I know a lot more about it than you do. One need not even apply for a trademark or copyright protection once their work is completed and out for public viewing, although its wise to do so. It's also published on a website. This does NOT make it public domain unless specifically stated so along with writing. Assumed copyright goes with ALL work and the writer therefore has rights involved with their work. Also, consider the fact that this is at the bottom of his website:


Copyright © 2009-2010 Organic Church – Holy Triage

I'm not going to debate this with you. You've posted entire articles here many, many times since the beginning of this board. Further occurrences will lead to the entire post being deleted. I am not going to follow you around to ensure I don't run afoul of the law, or debate you over thing you obviously know very little about. If you doubt me, post one of the interviews I have done here on a website of yours, give me the address, and watch me have it removed.

[Gaffer]

My take on the article...My christianity can beat up your christianity.

[chloe]

If you notice, Chloe - I did not author it... his name is Joshua..




oh sorry I thought you wrote it my bad ! I thought you were an atheist. Yeah someone from work gave me a bible that is written in words like how people talk nowadays because I never understand the bible. Then I was thinking about what you said or what your friend said so then I opened up the bible cuz its at my work on my desk and I read this story that seemed like the same idea of what your friend said. It was about two guys named Peter and Cornelius, have you ever heard of it? I had never heard the story before but it was pretty good.

[BoogyMan]

If you notice, Chloe - I did not author it... his name is Joshua..



Hog - if you read that as hatred, then you've missed the point...

It's always important that we examine ourselves, our motives etc..

We'll never be able to fully love our enemies until we first experience the true-love that is God..



Going after the Atheists isn't my place - it's expected of them to not be able to demonstrate love and grace to others as they don't yet KNOW Love...

It is incumbent, however, on those who call themselves "Christians" to be able to have a clear idea of how we should live our lives and love those around us. .

You seem to be arguing in a circle here, cp. Do you, or do you not agree with the stereotypical hogwash you posted?

[-Cp]

I don't have time to teach you the law but suffice to say I know a lot more about it than you do. One need not even apply for a trademark or copyright protection once their work is completed and out for public viewing, although its wise to do so. It's also published on a website. This does NOT make it public domain unless specifically stated so along with writing. Assumed copyright goes with ALL work and the writer therefore has rights involved with their work. Also, consider the fact that this is at the bottom of his website:



I'm not going to debate this with you. You've posted entire articles here many, many times since the beginning of this board. Further occurrences will lead to the entire post being deleted. I am not going to follow you around to ensure I don't run afoul of the law, or debate you over thing you obviously know very little about. If you doubt me, post one of the interviews I have done here on a website of yours, give me the address, and watch me have it removed.

You sure can be a pompous ass-hat, can't you? I have no freakin clue why you hate me the way you do..

[jimnyc]

You sure can be a pompous ass-hat, can't you? I have no freakin clue why you hate me the way you do..

Sure, I'm the pompous one! All I ask is that people follow the written rules of the board, and I will speak up when they are not followed. If you prefer to debate me when I politely ask that the rules be followed, that is on you. The rule about posting citations is there to protect ME, not you.

[HogTrash]

Hog - if you read that as hatred, then you've missed the point...

It's always important that we examine ourselves, our motives etc..

We'll never be able to fully love our enemies until we first experience the true-love that is God..
It is not even necessary to read between the lines to see the hate for Christians and Christianity in the article.

The author definately has a bone to pick with Jesus. :dunno:

[-Cp]

It is not even necessary to read between the lines to see the hate for Christians and Christianity in the article.

The author definately has a bone to pick with Jesus. :dunno:

Oh yeah... he's SOOO full of hate - LOL... *rolls eyes*............

[BoogyMan]

Oh yeah... he's SOOO full of hate - LOL... *rolls eyes*............

The author relies heavily on the use of the strawman fallacy (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html) in order to try to score some kind of cheap point, cp. Inflamatory stereotyping born out of atheist piffle is what the article boils down to.

[-Cp]

The author relies heavily on the use of the strawman fallacy (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html) in order to try to score some kind of cheap point, cp. Inflamatory stereotyping born out of atheist piffle is what the article boils down to.

Joshua is a christian...

Do you care to give me an example where you think he's in error of his assessment?

[-Cp]

It is not even necessary to read between the lines to see the hate for Christians and Christianity in the article.

The author definately has a bone to pick with Jesus. :dunno:

Please give me an example of where you think he's hateful..

[SassyLady]

Please give me an example of where you think he's hateful..

If he is indeed a Christian as you say he is, then this entire article oozes self-hatred and he is assigning his own faults to the majority which is telling in itself--- he is delusional and misinformed about the majority of Christians.

I used to assign the qualities of the church I was raised in to all Christians....and then one day I grew up and realized that everyone is human, no one is perfect.....yet it is the striving for goodness that counts....not the achievement of it nor the stumbles along the way.

[BoogyMan]

Joshua is a christian...

Do you care to give me an example where you think he's in error of his assessment?

The part where he starts all the way down to the part where he finishes. When there is so much fallacy in a work, it is impossible to point out everything in a medium like this.

How about a link to your source so I can check into your claims?

[darin]

It's the author's opinion. There are places where he's talking about things I bet every Christian can recognize or relate to.

Here's where I think his premise is wrong: I believe in the near-term triumph of Evil in the world (see: Liberals :P), however it's not from pessimism. It's because it's been foretold in Scripture.




How about a link to your source so I can check into your claims?

What claims did -Cp make? The link to the article has been posted.

[DragonStryk72]

If you notice, Chloe - I did not author it... his name is Joshua..



Hog - if you read that as hatred, then you've missed the point...

It's always important that we examine ourselves, our motives etc..

We'll never be able to fully love our enemies until we first experience the true-love that is God..



Going after the Atheists isn't my place - it's expected of them to not be able to demonstrate love and grace to others as they don't yet KNOW Love...

It is incumbent, however, on those who call themselves "Christians" to be able to have a clear idea of how we should live our lives and love those around us. .

Actually, I'm usually not one of Hog's fans, but I'm sorry, here, he has the right of it. This whole thing is nothing but yet another run a poking the religious. It started a bit back with Noir, who posted "questions", and then, when he hit a roadblock to his thesis, simply jumped to a new poking thread. This is simple trolling.

Have I, a Christian, done anything to poke at you, CP, an atheist? No, and I've done nothing to stop any other Atheist, Wiccan, Muslim, Buddhist, or otherwise from following their faith, and yes, Atheism is still an act of faith, you have faith that there is no god. There is no scientific proof, for or against, and that's as it should be. It isn't my right as a Christian to determine which is the right path for them, for as Jesus said, "Judge not, be judged not", along with "You cannot know God". I always felt he advocated a quieter faith

[BoogyMan]

What claims did -Cp make? The link to the article has been posted.

Abut the author being a Christian.

[crin63]

Most of the “church” believes the world is getting worse and that evil will win the battle over the earth.

Actually, Christians have read to the end of the book. FYI, God wins!


The church will never improve a world they have written off as evil. Few Christians actually have faith in good as you can see by the emphasis they place on witch hunts.

Faith in what good? That’s just stupid, it’s like having faith in, "hope and change". God said there is none good, no not one.


Most Christian's have become pessimistic and cynical people known for seeing the worst in society.

When God says the whole world lieth in wickedness, how are Christians supposed to look at it? Seeing evil as evil is not pessimistic or cynical, its reality.


Most Christians repel the love of God, the love of others and even the love of their own children. If you cannot accept your redeemed self then you will never believe God and others will accept you. Christians miss out on true spiritual community allowing their wounds to sabotage any hope for healthy relationships. Christians hide their sins because they are afraid others will judge them in the same way they judge others.

More stupidity! Christians acknowledge their sins, embrace the grace of God and have redemption in Jesus who by the way is God.


True Church starts in the heart and Christian’s hearts are often divided. Christian parents unknowingly abandon their own children to a “church” system that discourages people from being themselves. All these hidden hearts are left feeling unknown and filled with loneliness. Worst of all Christians are actually playing a role in the destruction of modern society, but in arrogance they walk through life believing they are improving the world.

There is no improving the world from a spiritual stand point. Individuals can be rescued and that is what Christians have been commissioned to do, rescue the perishing by introducing them to Christ.



The good works of Christians are often rooted in ego/insecurity or the desire to be a hero because many ultimately feel worthless. The world watches most Christian people treat God like a Prozac pill as they seek His presence like a drug to make them feel good and to cure their insecurities.

What does any man have that God has not given him? Any talent or ability is God given. To God be the glory, not to man be the glory.


Many Christians walk around bragging that God is “using them” to fill some authoritative role as His agents over the average in society. Christians love to appear smart and many have been “right” for so long that there pride refuses to let them be wrong. Many Christians love to defeat the Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses on there door steps and then they call it apologetics as they brag about it to there Christian friends.

When people make false claims about God and Christians (kind of like this whole letter) how is it wrong to point out discrepancies and utter stupidity or folly. Yes some can be filled with pride over it which is wrong. However trying to clear up misconceptions about God and particularly the person of Christ Jesus is showing genuine love. Sitting back and watch them drown in their sin while not saying anything is the real crime against humanity.


When Christians serve it is often more about feeling good then actually loving the people they are serving. After volunteering Christians will often talk about there good works and elevate themselves higher then they ought. Christians usually don't care enough to even know the names of the homeless and the less fortunate they serve. Why? Because serving is often more about the warm feeling and the high they get then the people they serve. This is why it is so easy for churches to waste millions of dollars on beautiful buildings and worthless programs that improve their so-called images rather then truly tending to the needs of the poor, the widows and the orphans.

He would have a different view if he spent time around actual Christians and not just those who claim the name of Christ but with no real relationship with Jesus.

[HogTrash]

Please give me an example of where you think he's hateful..I quoted the article below with the intention of highlighting the places I believed were examples of "hatred for Christians".

But after reading over the article again I came to the conclusion that just about everything in it is an example of the authors hatred of Christianity.

I'm awfully sorry to inform you that IMO the guy definately has a strong dislike of Christians and to me it's all too obvious.

The article is obviously based on Mr Guild's opinions instead of facts and all of his opinions are clearly negative which is an undeniable sign of "hate".

By Joshua Guild

I dedicate this article to my Atheist friends out there because I know they will love it.

Most of the “church” believes the world is getting worse and that evil will win the battle over the earth. The church will never improve a world they have written off as evil. Few Christians actually have faith in good as you can see by the emphasis they place on witch hunts. Most Christian's have become pessimistic and cynical people known for seeing the worst in society. Most Christians repel the love of God, the love of others and even the love of their own children. If you cannot accept your redeemed self then you will never believe God and others will accept you. Christians miss out on true spiritual community allowing their wounds to sabotage any hope for healthy relationships. Christians hide their sins because they are afraid others will judge them in the same way they judge others. True Church starts in the heart and Christian’s hearts are often divided. Christian parents unknowingly abandon their own children to a “church” system that discourages people from being themselves. All these hidden hearts are left feeling unknown and filled with loneliness. Worst of all Christians are actually playing a role in the destruction of modern society, but in arrogance they walk through life believing they are improving the world.

The good works of Christians are often rooted in ego/insecurity or the desire to be a hero because many ultimately feel worthless. The world watches most Christian people treat God like a Prozac pill as they seek His presence like a drug to make them feel good and to cure their insecurities. Many Christians walk around bragging that God is “using them” to fill some authoritative role as His agents over the average in society. Christians love to appear smart and many have been “right” for so long that there pride refuses to let them be wrong. Many Christians love to defeat the Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses on there door steps and then they call it apologetics as they brag about it to there Christian friends. When Christians serve it is often more about feeling good then actually loving the people they are serving. After volunteering Christians will often talk about there good works and elevate themselves higher then they ought. Christians usually don't care enough to even know the names of the homeless and the less fortunate they serve. Why? Because serving is often more about the warm feeling and the high they get then the people they serve. This is why it is so easy for churches to waste millions of dollars on beautiful buildings and worthless programs that improve their so-called images rather then truly tending to the needs of the poor, the widows and the orphans.

[Abbey Marie]

When Christians serve it is often more about feeling good then actually loving the people they are serving. After volunteering Christians will often talk about there good works and elevate themselves higher then they ought. Christians usually don't care enough to even know the names of the homeless and the less fortunate they serve. Why? Because serving is often more about the warm feeling and the high they get then the people they serve.

We had a woman speak at church yesterday who had just returned from helping in Haiti. She spoke of people having their legs amputated, and other horrors, in the camps. She also spoke of people singing worship songs in those same camps. She was choked up talking about it, and I in turn was choked up hearing it. I can tell you that there wasn't an ounce of ego or self-congratulation noticeable in her words. We then happily gave to the collection earkmarked for Haiti. Yes, it felt good to help. Why shouldn't it? It is a positive part of human nature to feel good about giving. You see it everyday at birthday parties, for example. Would the help/giving somehow be more meaningful if it felt bad to do it? Wouldn't we then be giving begrudgingly, stingily?

I think the author has had a bad experience in a church. The article really screams that to me. I have had a sour experience at a church. I moved on and found a better church, or at least, one that felt better for me. And if my current church ever seems way off the mark, I will move on again.

The author needs a reminder of one of the simplest, most basic tenets of Christianity, and the very reason Christ died for us- we aren't perfect, we are forgiven.

[-Cp]

I'll sum this up w/ the lyrics from a Keith Green Song called Asleep in the Light:


Do you see, do you see
All the people sinking down
Don't you care, don't you care
Are you gonna let them drown

How can you be so numb
Not to care if they come
You close your eyes
And pretend the job's done

"Oh bless me Lord, bless me Lord"
You know it's all I ever hear
No one aches, no one hurts
No one even sheds one tear

But He cries, He weeps, He bleeds
And He cares for your needs
And you just lay back
And keep soaking it in,
Oh, can't you see it's such a sin?

Cause He brings people to you door,
And you turn them away
As you smile and say,
"God bless you, be at peace"
And all heaven just weeps
Cause Jesus came to your door
You've left him out on the streets

Open up open up
And give yourself away
You see the need, you hear the cries
So how can you delay

God's calling and you're the one
But like Jonah you run
He's told you to speak
But you keep holding it in,
Oh can't you see it's such a sin?

The world is sleeping in the dark
That the church just can't fight
Cause it's asleep in the light
How can you be so dead
When you've been so well fed
Jesus rose from the grave
And you, you can't even get out of bed

Oh, Jesus rose from the dead
Come on, get out of your bed

How can you be so numb
Not to care if they come
You close your eyes
And pretend the job's done
You close your eyes
And pretend the job's done

Don't close your eyes
Don't pretend the jobs done

[DragonStryk72]

Um, you summed up with a Christian inspirational song based around the concept of truly living like Jesus did? That seems like backwards, there Cp.

[-Cp]

Um, you summed up with a Christian inspirational song based around the concept of truly living like Jesus did? That seems like backwards, there Cp.

Because the message of that song is almost a mirror of the OP...