So, you think you're a dumbass?

[dan]

Try this one on for size....

I have two bank accounts, one with Wachovia, one with another local bank. The local bank is the one I use primarily, for day-to-day use. The ATM passwords for these two accounts are pretty similar.

Well, last week, I decide to go out and have a few beers with my friends. A few beers turns into a few more, of course, then we decide we're going to go to another bar. I hit the ATM, knowing that I've got a decent amount of money in my bank account. Only, for whatever reason (:beer: ), I use my Wachovia card instead of my Security Federal one. My Wachovia account had about thirty-five dollars in it. I withdrew $40. I had used the Wachovia account five times in the previous few days for small purchases (when I left the other card at home).

Well, of course, I overdrew on all five transactions (none of which was more than $6), and thanks to overage fees, I am now so far in the hole in my Wachovia account, I don't even have enough money in my Security Federal account to bring my other account back to zero. Wonderful!

[MtnBiker]

Doh!!

That's why I use cash.

[dan]

It's why I'm going to start.

....Whenever I get some more, I mean.

[Mr. P]

Happened to my daughter. It pissed me off because she didn't have the money in the account that she withdrew. Why would you allow this; I asked the bank official. No real good answer, it seems to be an intentional gotcha and money making scheme for the bank.

Another less than ethical practice some banks use is clearing checks before adding deposits, yep that results in NSF fees even when they have the deposit in their hand! I don't use banks because of these practices. :no:

[dan]

Happened to my daughter. It pissed me off because she didn't have the money in the account that she withdrew. Why would you allow this; I asked the bank official. No real good answer, it seems to be an intentional gotcha and money making scheme for the bank.

Yeah, that's what it is, I think, but at the same time, all it takes is for me to push a different button at the ATM to see how much I've got. It was entirely my screwup.

[KitchenKitten99]

I will play devil's advocate on this one. In working for a bank, I was witness to situations like this, and many others.

first, the thing about the ATM letting you draw cash even if you don't have the money, is because there are some situations that have been where people have needed funds in an emergency, and an overdraft (or more than one) is a small price to pay to bail themselves out of the situation they are in.

Also, ATM's that are not owned by the bank you use, don't always have actual access to your current balance, only that the account exists and your PIN is correct. The bank or FI that owns that ATM will send an electronic request through to the Fed Reserve to deduct the amount you withdrew from your account, plus any fees. Your bank then deducts it, and assesses fees as stated in their policies that you signed to.

Yes, you may have made a mistake, but unfortunately there are so many dishonest people out there, so the burden of proof is on you, and it is hard to prove that your ATM transaction was not intentional.

As far as clearing deposits before withdrawls, that is up to the FI itself. I know my bank clears all deposits made within the timeframes they give, before any withdrawls on each processing day. However, if I present a check that the bank is unsure will be paid, in order to avoid possible fees or extra work on their end, they may place a hold on it. They are legally obligated to notify me, and if I choose to ignore it, then any fees incurred are my fault.

[KitchenKitten99]

Yeah, that's what it is, I think, but at the same time, all it takes is for me to push a different button at the ATM to see how much I've got. It was entirely my screwup.

if you are in good standing with the bank, see if they'll waive some of the fees as a courtesy. I know my bank will do that, but you have to meet certain criteria before that will happen.

[Gaffer]

I agree with mr p. Its a way for the banks to steal your money. They will also run a big check through before running through smaller checks and then put the deposit in. This is to allow more checks to bounce.

[Mr. P]

Yeah, that's what it is, I think, but at the same time, all it takes is for me to push a different button at the ATM to see how much I've got. It was entirely my screwup.

I agree, Dan. You could have checked the balance before hand. However, with the ability of the system to reflect the balance in your account it also has capability of NOT allowing you to withdraw more than you have. How would I know? Because that’s the way it used to work before the banks were allowed to become legal crooks.

[darin]

Did you ask your bank for grace? Often banks can over-ride overages.

I think most banks are Unethical. USBank is who we use, and we hate it. Several years ago they processed our account like this:

1st - Credit all the deposits.
2nd - debit all the withdrawls/spending.

Since, they've changed it.

Now, they remove ALL the debits first, THEN add the deposits. When we called them about it, the person on the phone LITERALLY said this "...this way, if your account goes under after we remove the debits, we can tack on service charges. "

(most) Banks, (most) Insurance Companies, (most) Speeding Tickets - three MAJOR Ethically-bankrupt ideas.

[Mr. P]

Did you ask your bank for grace? Often banks can over-ride overages.

I think most banks are Unethical. USBank is who we use, and we hate it. Several years ago they processed our account like this:

1st - Credit all the deposits.
2nd - debit all the withdrawls/spending.

Since, they've changed it.

Now, they remove ALL the debits first, THEN add the deposits. When we called them about it, the person on the phone LITERALLY said this "...this way, if your account goes under after we remove the debits, we can tack on service charges. "

(most) Banks, (most) Insurance Companies, (most) Speeding Tickets - three MAJOR Ethically-bankrupt ideas.

Besides the fees they collect with this practice the larger issue is the NSF (bounced check).

Folks, that makes you a criminal! It is a criminal offence! If the entity you wrote the check to elects to file charges (and many do) YOU WILL GO TO JAIL! The bank, your own bank that uses YOUR money daily doesn’t give a shit.

[Dilloduck]

Besides the fees they collect with this practice the larger issue is the NSF (bounced check).

Folks, that makes you a criminal! It is a criminal offence! If the entity you wrote the check to elects to file charges (and many do) YOU WILL GO TO JAIL! The bank, your own bank that uses YOUR money daily doesn’t give a shit.

Just wait until all the banks are bought out by one corporation.

[Mr. P]

Just wait until all the banks are bought out by one corporation.

Hell it's close to that now.

[Gaffer]

I had a savings account with US bank. I had to draw out most of my money to help my daughter with food. I left $5 in the account to keep it open. At the end of the month they took the five as a service charge, for some unexplained reason. The next month they tried to take another 5 for a service charge and since there was nothing in it they declared it overdrawn and charged me $20 for an overdrawn account. I told them to shoved up their ass and I refuse to ever do business with them or any associate of them again.

Banking institutions are the biggest bunch of crooks in the world.

[dirt mcgirt]

Try this one on for size....

I have two bank accounts, one with Wachovia, one with another local bank. The local bank is the one I use primarily, for day-to-day use. The ATM passwords for these two accounts are pretty similar.

Well, last week, I decide to go out and have a few beers with my friends. A few beers turns into a few more, of course, then we decide we're going to go to another bar. I hit the ATM, knowing that I've got a decent amount of money in my bank account. Only, for whatever reason ( ), I use my Wachovia card instead of my Security Federal one. My Wachovia account had about thirty-five dollars in it. I withdrew $40. I had used the Wachovia account five times in the previous few days for small purchases (when I left the other card at home).

Well, of course, I overdrew on all five transactions (none of which was more than $6), and thanks to overage fees, I am now so far in the hole in my Wachovia account, I don't even have enough money in my Security Federal account to bring my other account back to zero. Wonderful!

That totally sucks. We use USAA. It's convenient for us to do the checking, credit card, savings, investments, ATM, car insurance, home insurance, etc. all with one bank and all online. You might not get the very lowest rates but you get a very low and decent rate and being able to pay off the credit card and transfer money and manage all your accounts in one setting cuts so much time out of your day. We opened up a bank account with Wachovia just to cash checks but we never use it for anything other than that. I declined an ATM card from Wachovia specifically to avoid getting myself in those situations. If you want my advice, cut the Wachovia ATM card up. :)

[darin]

That totally sucks. We use USAA. It's convenient for us to do the checking, credit card, savings, investments, ATM, car insurance, home insurance, etc. all with one bank and all online. You might not get the very lowest rates but you get a very low and decent rate and being able to pay off the credit card and transfer money and manage all your accounts in one setting cuts so much time out of your day. We opened up a bank account with Wachovia just to cash checks but we never use it for anything other than that. I declined an ATM card from Wachovia specifically to avoid getting myself in those situations. If you want my advice, cut the Wachovia ATM card up. :)


We have USAA for Credit Cards and insurance; not banking yet. :)

[Mr. P]

That totally sucks. We use USAA. It's convenient for us to do the checking, credit card, savings, investments, ATM, car insurance, home insurance, etc. all with one bank and all online. You might not get the very lowest rates but you get a very low and decent rate and being able to pay off the credit card and transfer money and manage all your accounts in one setting cuts so much time out of your day. We opened up a bank account with Wachovia just to cash checks but we never use it for anything other than that. I declined an ATM card from Wachovia specifically to avoid getting myself in those situations. If you want my advice, cut the Wachovia ATM card up. :)

USAA ROCKS!!! I have a savings and checking account with them..6% on the savings account, go find that at yer local bank! :thumb:

[Insein]

Im with a credit union. Luckily they seem to be decent enough with my money and give me a decent rate for a standard account. I get around 5% return which is way better than the 2% you usually get from banks.

[dirt mcgirt]

We have USAA for Credit Cards and insurance; not banking yet. :)
They made it so that when you get a check you can scan the front and back of it and deposit it over the internet. I haven't tried it yet but it's pretty convenient if you're in the military or government and move around all the time. I'm always paying my credit card off like once a week from my checking account from the USAA website. No mailing out payments and it only takes 2 days for the money to go from your account to the credit card.

Edit: here's the link to that scanning the check thing. (http://http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-article-a-87112-m-61-sc-96-usaa_allowing_customers_to_scan_in_deposit_checks_ over_the_internet-i)

[Mr. P]

They made it so that when you get a check you can scan the front and back of it and deposit it over the internet. I haven't tried it yet but it's pretty convenient if you're in the military or government and move around all the time. I'm always paying my credit card off like once a week from my checking account from the USAA website. No mailing out payments and it only takes 2 days for the money to go from your account to the credit card.

Edit: here's the link to that scanning the check thing. (http://http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-article-a-87112-m-61-sc-96-usaa_allowing_customers_to_scan_in_deposit_checks_ over_the_internet-i)

I gave it a small test..It's great! No mail, no fuss, 24/7...and free!!! :2up:

[5stringJeff]

USAA kicks ass. I'll never bank/get insurance elsewhere.

[dan]

We have a lot of people who do business with USAA through the store (UPS has some sort of corporate deal with them), and I hear nothing but good things.

Fuzzy, your scenario makes sense, but if the bank's true concern were to help those in an emergency, they should have some sort of screen that pops up that says something to the effect of "this account has insufficient funds, would you like to continue?"

Would Wachovia waive the fees, you think? I could see myself being able to talk my way out of it if it were a local bank, but Wachovia's big-time. I'll ask, because, I mean, I'm being charged $120 for $30's worth of withdrawals.

[Mr. P]

We have a lot of people who do business with USAA through the store (UPS has some sort of corporate deal with them), and I hear nothing but good things.

....

Not anymore, Dan. That program with UPS ended and was replaced with this scanning option online.

[Gaffer]

We have a lot of people who do business with USAA through the store (UPS has some sort of corporate deal with them), and I hear nothing but good things.

Fuzzy, your scenario makes sense, but if the bank's true concern were to help those in an emergency, they should have some sort of screen that pops up that says something to the effect of "this account has insufficient funds, would you like to continue?"

Would Wachovia waive the fees, you think? I could see myself being able to talk my way out of it if it were a local bank, but Wachovia's big-time. I'll ask, because, I mean, I'm being charged $120 for $30's worth of withdrawals.

Not likely Dan/ Definately try, but don't expect any help from them. Big banks like that make millions off of people doing what you did. Establish a new account then tell wachovia to take a hike. They'll put you on their blackball list to send to other banks but if you already have a new account nothing will happen.

[dan]

Not anymore, Dan. That program with UPS ended and was replaced with this scanning option online.

Oh, yeah, I've been having to deal with lots of QuickPost people getting very angry at us over that.


Not likely Dan/ Definately try, but don't expect any help from them. Big banks like that make millions off of people doing what you did. Establish a new account then tell wachovia to take a hike. They'll put you on their blackball list to send to other banks but if you already have a new account nothing will happen.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Basically like telling Walmart I'm not shopping there anymore or something, y'know? The only leverage I could possibly have over them is the fact that my parents have a Wachovia account and do a lot of business with them. Then again, if I told my parents they had to drop their Wachovia account because of this, they'd tell me to go to Hell faster than Wachovia.

[jillian]

Oh, yeah, I've been having to deal with lots of QuickPost people getting very angry at us over that.



Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Basically like telling Walmart I'm not shopping there anymore or something, y'know? The only leverage I could possibly have over them is the fact that my parents have a Wachovia account and do a lot of business with them. Then again, if I told my parents they had to drop their Wachovia account because of this, they'd tell me to go to Hell faster than Wachovia.

Well, you don't have to do it that way. Can I suggest that you speak with the bank manager. Introduce yourself. Tell him/her what happened. Tell them it created huge problems for you and you've never had anything like this happen before. If he/she is helpful, keep telling them how much you appreciate anything they could do for you... In other words, make him/her feel like a good samaritan for helping. (And frankly, they would be). You'd be amazed at how much someone in a position like that, even at a big bank, will go out of their way for you if you make them want to help you.

Good luck.

[Mr. P]

Well, you don't have to do it that way. Can I suggest that you speak with the bank manager. Introduce yourself. Tell him/her what happened. Tell them it created huge problems for you and you've never had anything like this happen before. If he/she is helpful, keep telling them how much you appreciate anything they could do for you... In other words, make him/her feel like a good samaritan for helping. (And frankly, they would be). You'd be amazed at how much someone in a position like that, even at a big bank, will go out of their way for you if you make them want to help you.

Good luck.

Yep, and 'most' of the time that works. :thumb:

[jillian]

Yep, and 'most' of the time that works. :thumb:

I've always thought so. :beer:

[KitchenKitten99]

Fuzzy, your scenario makes sense, but if the bank's true concern were to help those in an emergency, they should have some sort of screen that pops up that says something to the effect of "this account has insufficient funds, would you like to continue?"
I don't know about other banks, my bank's ATM's do...they say that your account doesn't have the funds available to withdraw, but you can still do it, and a fee would be assessed. I have done this before, but because I have overdraft protection (aka credit card) attached, it asks me if I want to use funds from there as well. Unfortunately, other ATMs owned by other banks don't do this for accounts outside their own banking system because those kinds of transactions need access to too much information, so for security, the privately owned atms don't get that kind of info.

However, I did do something similar to your situation, but using the check card feature instead of ATM. I have 2 accounts, one personal/joint with Tim, and one for my pure romance biz. I had like $7 in my PR account and I accidentally used the atm/check card at Home Depot, and my purchase amount was approved even though my balance didn't reflect that. Thank God I realized within a few hours why my one account was showing negative online, and I transferred the funds immediately. Since it was a weekend, funds transferred are credited as of the next business day, and check card transactions always take 1-2 biz days to post, and debits are posted last, so my transfer credited first no matter when the purchase was originally made. Had I not done so, I would have taken the OD fee, because I don't have OD protection on that account, which would require another credit card, and Lord knows I don't need another one.