Iraq war is 'lost': US Democrat leader

[Pale Rider]

Iraq war is 'lost': US Democrat leader


The war in Iraq "is lost" and a US troop surge is failing to bring peace to the country, the leader of the Democratic majority in the US Congress, Harry Reid, said Thursday.
"I believe ... that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything, as is shown by the extreme violence in Iraq this week," Reid told journalists.

Reid said he had delivered the same message to US President George W. Bush on Wednesday, when the US president met with senior lawmakers to discuss how to end a standoff over an emergency war funding bill.

"I know I was the odd guy out at the White House, but I told him at least what he needed to hear ... I believe the war at this stage can only be won diplomatically, politically and economically."

Congress is seeking to tie funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to a timetable to withdraw US troops from Iraq next year, but Bush has vowed to veto any such bill and no breakthrough was reported from the White House talks.

Bush on Thursday was addressing an Ohio town hall meeting and defending the war on terror launched in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks.


"It is the most solemn duty of our country, is to protect our country from harm," Bush told the invited audience in Tipp, Ohio.

"A lesson learned was that -- at least in my opinion -- that in order to protect us, we must aggressively pursue the enemy and defeat them elsewhere so that we do not have to face them here."

But Reid drew a parallel with former US president Lyndon Johnson who decided to deploy more troops in Vietnam some 40 years ago when 24,000 US troops had already been killed.

"Johnson did not want a war loss on his watch, so he surged in Vietnam. After the surge was over, we added 34,000 to the 24,000 who died in Vietnam," Reid said.

The comments came a day after bombers killed more than 200 people in a slew of car bombings in Baghdad, dealing a savage blow to the US security plan which aims to deploy an extra 30,000 troops in the country to quell sectarian unrest.

US Defense Secretary Robert Gates fly into Iraq Thursday on an unannounced visit for talks with top US military commanders there.

He met with General David Petraeus, chief of coalition forces in Iraq, his deputy Lieutenant Colonel Ray Odierno and Admiral William Fallon, chief of US forces in the Middle East.


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070419184534.ileoeb47&show_article=1

[stephanie]

What a pathetic little man..:slap:

[Pale Rider]

What a pathetic little man..:slap:

No shit! And the pissbag just HAS to be from NEVADA! I'm ashamed to admit it.

[glockmail]

No shit! And the pissbag just HAS to be from NEVADA! I'm ashamed to admit it.
Vote the little shit out. Or all all from Nevada pansies? :poke:

[lily]

Can someone please explain to me what in the past 2 years have we milirarily accomplished in Iraq? When are all those soldiers that we have been training going to stand up?

[Pale Rider]

Vote the little shit out. Or all all from Nevada pansies? :poke:

I've lived here for 2 1/2 years. I've never voted thus far... so don't blame me, and I'm a little off ease that you'd insinuate I'm a "pansie".

Further, could you imagine an American senator saying, "we've lost the war", during WWII? He'd have been tried for high treason. What a slap in the face of every single man and woman in the military.

[manu1959]

Can someone please explain to me what in the past 2 years have we milirarily accomplished in Iraq? When are all those soldiers that we have been training going to stand up?

rehtorical huh

[Gunny]

Iraq war is 'lost': US Democrat leader


The war in Iraq "is lost" and a US troop surge is failing to bring peace to the country, the leader of the Democratic majority in the US Congress, Harry Reid, said Thursday.
"I believe ... that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything, as is shown by the extreme violence in Iraq this week," Reid told journalists.

Reid said he had delivered the same message to US President George W. Bush on Wednesday, when the US president met with senior lawmakers to discuss how to end a standoff over an emergency war funding bill.

"I know I was the odd guy out at the White House, but I told him at least what he needed to hear ... I believe the war at this stage can only be won diplomatically, politically and economically."

Congress is seeking to tie funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to a timetable to withdraw US troops from Iraq next year, but Bush has vowed to veto any such bill and no breakthrough was reported from the White House talks.

Bush on Thursday was addressing an Ohio town hall meeting and defending the war on terror launched in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks.


"It is the most solemn duty of our country, is to protect our country from harm," Bush told the invited audience in Tipp, Ohio.

"A lesson learned was that -- at least in my opinion -- that in order to protect us, we must aggressively pursue the enemy and defeat them elsewhere so that we do not have to face them here."

But Reid drew a parallel with former US president Lyndon Johnson who decided to deploy more troops in Vietnam some 40 years ago when 24,000 US troops had already been killed.

"Johnson did not want a war loss on his watch, so he surged in Vietnam. After the surge was over, we added 34,000 to the 24,000 who died in Vietnam," Reid said.

The comments came a day after bombers killed more than 200 people in a slew of car bombings in Baghdad, dealing a savage blow to the US security plan which aims to deploy an extra 30,000 troops in the country to quell sectarian unrest.

US Defense Secretary Robert Gates fly into Iraq Thursday on an unannounced visit for talks with top US military commanders there.

He met with General David Petraeus, chief of coalition forces in Iraq, his deputy Lieutenant Colonel Ray Odierno and Admiral William Fallon, chief of US forces in the Middle East.


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070419184534.ileoeb47&show_article=1


And so goes the ramping of the rhetoric .....

[Pale Rider]

And so goes the ramping of the rhetoric .....

This son of a bitch should be SHOT for betraying his country and cowardice. To say we've lost the war implies VICTORY for our enemy. This spineless liberal pile of steaming dog shit knows nothing but cut and run and surrender, and he's the leader of the liberals, all of which would rather see America get the shit kicked out of her over see her victorious. I'm so sick of these yellow bellied, milk sop, gutless shurkers I could PUKE!

[glockmail]

I've lived here for 2 1/2 years. I've never voted thus far... so don't blame me, and I'm a little off ease that you'd insinuate I'm a "pansie".

Further, could you imagine an American senator saying, "we've lost the war", during WWII? He'd have been tried for high treason. What a slap in the face of every single man and woman in the military.

Then y'all need to try that pansy for treason, along with Pelosi.

[glockmail]

This son of a bitch should be SHOT for betraying his country and cowardice. To say we've lost the war implies VICTORY for our enemy. This spineless liberal pile of steaming dog shit knows nothing but cut and run and surrender, and he's the leader of the liberals, all of which would rather see America get the shit kicked out of her over see her victories. I'm so sick of these yellow bellied, milk sop, gutless shurkers I could PUKE!


So who do you have lined up to run against the spineless puke in his next election?

[Kathianne]

Reid, called out. Links at site:


http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=1764


4/19/2007
Harry Reid Declares War Lost — sort of

— site admin @ 4:36 pm

Yup. He sure did. Harry Reid unequivocally called the war lost.

His headline, directed at readers of The DailyKos:

“Now I believe myself . . . that this war is lost, and that the surge is not accomplishing anything, as indicated by the extreme violence in Iraq yesterday,” said Reid, of Nevada.

But then he carefully squiggles, weaves, and pedals:

“The (Iraq) war can only be won diplomatically, politically and economically, and the president needs to come to that realization,” Reid said.

What a slickee boy. It’s lost, but can only be won, if…Hmmm.

There are (and have been) four lines of operation in Iraq: security (military ops,building Iraqi defense capabilities), governmental (political participation and structure building), information (intel, media, and political perception), and economic (economic development, infrastructure creation).

No, the War on Terror and its Iraq phase are not lost. They certainly haven’t been lost militarily, and Reid knows it. Since mid-April 2003 the economic and governmental components have been the decisive dimensions. Check Iraq’s GDP — it’s growing. Its elected a democratic government. The Saddamists, Al Qaeda, and Iranian-influenced Shia militias have had enormous information successes. Senator Reid and I might discuss why that’s the case. One reason is that they are not penalized by the conventional media and the Left for a campaign of mass murder overwhelmingly directed against Iraqi civilians. You want to help end the terror in Iraq? Condemn the terrorists as the Cho-like psychopaths they are. Deny them the false celebrity they gain when dubbed “insurgents.”

It would be refreshing if Reid even had the courage of his defeatist convictions.

Thing is, his “convictions” aren’t convictions. They are political postures, and this statement is an example of his political game. He tosses a line to the Dems’ defeatist nuts then edges toward reality with an oily pirouette.

UPDATE: I am now listening to the tv (not reading a wireservice report) and it appears Reid added his caveat later. So he doesn’t even score clever points. It’s still an example of his political game. As soon as the going gets tough, Reid and his constituents waver. Pathetic. No, not merely pathetic, dangerous and demoralizing.

[Pale Rider]

Then y'all need to try that pansy for treason, along with Pelosi.

Believe me, the idea is out there. I've been listening to local talk radio today, and there's quite an uproar about it. Having him impeached is the most requested action.

[Pale Rider]

So who do you have lined up to run against the spineless puke in his next election?

Don't know. Anybody. Go downtown and pull some bum out of the soup line at the Salvation Army. Gotta be better than that fucker.

[Pale Rider]

Reid, called out. Links at site:


http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=1764

Thanks for adding that Kath. I'm sure there's more to come.

[Kathianne]

Thanks for adding that Kath. I'm sure there's more to come.

Thanks. When I think of Harry, I think of snakes.

[glockmail]

Believe me, the idea is out there. I've been listening to local talk radio today, and there's quite an uproar about it. Having him impeached is the most requested action. You could start by leaving bags of dog shit at his local office.

[manu1959]

Thanks. When I think of Harry, I think of snakes.


when i think of harry i think of chorus line girls.....

[glockmail]

Don't know. Anybody. Go downtown and pull some bum out of the soup line at the Salvation Army. Gotta be better than that fucker. That's not likely to get him tossed. Surely there must be some conservative in your new state that's electable.

[Kathianne]

when i think of harry i think of chorus line girls.....

Well you would. :cool:

[glockmail]

when i think of harry i think of chorus line girls..... That's not quite what I think. Have you seen his legs?

[Pale Rider]

You could start by leaving bags of dog shit at his local office.

Bill Manders was really pissed off today on his show and taking calls. He said for everyone to take a can of yellow spray paint down to his office in Carson City. I think I'll do that tomorrow.

[glockmail]

Bill Manders was really pissed off today on his show and taking calls. He said for everyone to take a can of yellow spray paint down to his office in Carson City. I think I'll do that tomorrow. That would be vandalizing. Dog shit is a better idea. And its organic, and free.

[manu1959]

Well you would. :cool:

my dad and harry were in the state legislature years ago...harry "dated" chorus girls

[Kathianne]

my dad and harry were in the state legislature years ago...harry "dated" chorus girls

LOL!

[CockySOB]

I wonder how much the Republicans will pull on this statement in the 2008 cycle? If they're smart (and we know Rove is), Reid's statement will be used in a good number of election campaigns.

[glockmail]

my dad and harry were in the state legislature years ago...harry "dated" chorus girls Sure he did. He had a picture of one on his pillow.

[manu1959]

Sure he did. He had a picture of one on his pillow.

no really, they would go to the casinos and he would "date" the chorus girls....

[Pale Rider]

That would be vandalizing. Dog shit is a better idea. And its organic, and free.

He didn't say to paint anything. Just give it to his office. You know, so THEY can paint everything yellow, like Harry's belly.

[Pale Rider]

no really, they would go to the casinos and he would "date" the chorus girls....

You lived in Nevada? When?

[glockmail]

no really, they would go to the casinos and he would "date" the chorus girls.... I don't see Dingy Harry as a real lady's man.

[lily]

rehtorical huh

No, I'm serious. I won't even say 4 years.....just 2.

[glockmail]

Can someone please explain to me what in the past 2 years have we milirarily accomplished in Iraq? When are all those soldiers that we have been training going to stand up? Says a lot about the arabs, which has been my personal experience with them. But then, we're not allowed to generalize about them, are we?

[manu1959]

No, I'm serious. I won't even say 4 years.....just 2.

are you looking for a military answer or a social answer....in just iraq or in afghanistan as well?

[Pale Rider]

No, I'm serious. I won't even say 4 years.....just 2.

Have you not been listening to the news? We haven't done a damn thing according to the drive by media. You'll have to dig to find the good things that are happening. Like Iraq having free elections, and spending billions on new infrastructure, and new schools, and having the first money in the bank for their gross national product which is oil since before Sadam, and I'm only scratching the surface of good things happening there. So the terrorists are still killing and mamming innocent people. That's all you hear about, because that's all the drive by media reports on, with the INTENTION, of making you believe there's nothing good happening. It's politically agenda driven, because the MSM is abundantly liberal.

[glockmail]

Have you not been listening to the news? We haven't done a damn thing according to the drive by media. You'll have to dig to find the good things that are happening. Like Iraq having free elections, and spending billions on new infrastructure, and new schools, and having the first money in the bank for their gross national product which is oil since before Sadam, and I'm only scratching the surface of good things happening there. So the terrorists are still killing and mamming innocent people. That's all you hear about, because that's all the drive by media reports on, with the INTENTION, of making you believe there's nothing good happening. It's politically agenda driven, because the MSM is abundantly liberal. Yes, all good things accomplished by our guys. But her question was when were the Iraqis going to stand up? Its a legit point.

[lily]

Says a lot about the arabs, which has been my personal experience with them. But then, we're not allowed to generalize about them, are we?

....if that's true, I want a refund. We've been training them now for going on 5 years.......and we were promised that they were going to stand up.

[Pale Rider]

....if that's true, I want a refund. We've been training them now for going on 5 years.......and we were promised that they were going to stand up.

Was my answer not what you were asking for. What are you talking about exactly?

[lily]

are you looking for a military answer or a social answer....in just iraq or in afghanistan as well?


Military in Iraq. What have we accomplished in the last 5 years.....and Manu, I'm trusting you I don't want a C&P from FR.:salute:

[manu1959]

....if that's true, I want a refund. We've been training them now for going on 5 years.......and we were promised that they were going to stand up.

they have fought several skirmishes and i belive four or so provinces in the south are under their control...the entire north is under kurd control....the issue is downtown and the wild wild west....

[lily]

Have you not been listening to the news? We haven't done a damn thing according to the drive by media. You'll have to dig to find the good things that are happening. Like Iraq having free elections, and spending billions on new infrastructure, and new schools, and having the first money in the bank for their gross national product which is oil since before Sadam, and I'm only scratching the surface of good things happening there. So the terrorists are still killing and mamming innocent people. That's all you hear about, because that's all the drive by media reports on, with the INTENTION, of making you believe there's nothing good happening. It's politically agenda driven, because the MSM is abundantly liberal.


Yeah......I know I've heard it before.....it's all the media's fault. The questions were Can someone please explain to me what in the past 2 years have we milirarily accomplished in Iraq? When are all those soldiers that we have been training going to stand up?

[Pale Rider]

Military in Iraq. What have we accomplished in the last 5 years.....and Manu, I'm trusting you I don't want a C&P from FR.:salute:

A C&P from FR? Wha?

[Pale Rider]

Yeah......I know I've heard it before.....it's all the media's fault. The questions were Can someone please explain to me what in the past 2 years have we milirarily accomplished in Iraq? When are all those soldiers that we have been training going to stand up?

Stand up and do what? All they can do is follow orders.

[glockmail]

....if that's true, I want a refund. We've been training them now for going on 5 years.......and we were promised that they were going to stand up. I don't recall being promised that. How long did it take the japs and krauts? And they didn't have Iran fueling the fire, and the inherent religious differences.

[lily]

they have fought several skirmishes and i belive four or so provinces in the south are under their control...the entire north is under kurd control....the issue is downtown and the wild wild west....


Well, then wouldn't it be a good idea to move these well trained men into where the battle is that our men seem to be fighting for them?

[manu1959]

Military in Iraq. What have we accomplished in the last 5 years.....and Manu, I'm trusting you I don't want a C&P from FR.:salute:

don't know what a c&p from fr even is....militarily.....removed the military and the dictator which allowed for sanctions and debts to be lifted and also allowed for free elections and the possibility of self rule.....it would appear that criminals, syrians, iranians, x-military and two factions of religious zelots are doing everything within their power to prevent this adventure from being a social victory....and after 5 years america seems to have lost their patience so i fear we will withdraw and you will get to watch rawanda all over again.....

[lily]

I don't recall being promised that.

You don't consider all the times the American public was told, when the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down......if that isn't a promise, I don't know wht is.

You know you're rightthough.......we haven't heard that in a long time,....I wonder why that is???


How long did it take the japs and krauts? And they didn't have Iran fueling the fire, and the inherent religious differences.

I'm not talking about Japan and Germany.......I'm talking aroubt Iraq. As for Iran fueling the fire.....secure the borders and stop making excuses.

[manu1959]

Well, then wouldn't it be a good idea to move these well trained men into where the battle is that our men seem to be fighting for them?


no....that is how vietnam was fought...we took a town left and then they took it back.....it was stupid....

[lily]

don't know what a c&p from fr even is....militarily.....removed the military and the dictator which allowed for sanctions and debts to be lifted and also allowed for free elections and the possibility of self rule.....it would appear that criminals, syrians, iranians, x-military and two factions of religious zelots are doing everything within their power to prevent this adventure from being a social victory....and after 5 years america seems to have lost their patience so i fear we will withdraw and you will get to watch rawanda all over again.....


Yeah, you're the second one that gave me that pat answer.....the last 2 years was the question........and those Iraqis standing up.

Lost intrest.......hardly, patience for the way this war is being fought....you betcha!

[glockmail]

You don't consider all the times the American public was told, when the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down......if that isn't a promise, I don't know wht is.

You know you're rightthough.......we haven't heard that in a long time,....I wonder why that is???



I'm not talking about Japan and Germany.......I'm talking aroubt Iraq. As for Iran fueling the fire.....secure the borders and stop making excuses.

We were not promised a time table. The krauts and japs are relevant because of the historical perspective. It takes a long time to build a country from nothing. And we started with less than nothing.

[manu1959]

You don't consider all the times the American public was told, when the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down......if that isn't a promise, I don't know wht is.
You know you're rightthough.......we haven't heard that in a long time,....I wonder why that is???
I'm not talking about Japan and Germany.......I'm talking aroubt Iraq. As for Iran fueling the fire.....secure the borders and stop making excuses.

as i said they have stood up in the north and south.....problem is downtown and the wild west....

[lily]

no....that is how vietnam was fought...we took a town left and then they took it back.....it was stupid....

No, that's what we are doing now. You said there were Iraqi soldiers in some parts of Iraq where it is peaceful........how about moving them into battle? I would think that if it would take x number of Iraqi soldiers to keep the peace in a town, then it would take 1/4th less of our soldiers to do the same thing. If their tours are going to be extended anyway, take them out of harms way and let the Iraqis fight for their freedom, not our soldiers.

[glockmail]

No, that's what we are doing now. You said there were Iraqi soldiers in some parts of Iraq where it is peaceful........how about moving them into battle? I would think that if it would take x number of Iraqi soldiers to keep the peace in a town, then it would take 1/4th less of our soldiers to do the same thing. If their tours are going to be extended anyway, take them out of harms way and let the Iraqis fight for their freedom, not our soldiers.


I think the problem is that you can't rely on arabs. They're lazy, deceitful, and stupid. At least that's been my experience. Every one that I've delt with.

[lily]

We were not promised a time table. The krauts and japs are relevant because of the historical perspective. It takes a long time to build a country from nothing. And we started with less than nothing.


I am not talking a timetable.........I'm talking about 5 years of training Iraqi soldiers. We are not building a country NOW, we are in the middle of fighting a war........a war I might add again that should be by now fought by the Iraqis. Good God, man...........how long does it take to train soldiers? I wish our men had 5 years of training. If you insits on bringing in WW2....then we tought farmers faster than that.

[manu1959]

No, that's what we are doing now. You said there were Iraqi soldiers in some parts of Iraq where it is peaceful........how about moving them into battle? I would think that if it would take x number of Iraqi soldiers to keep the peace in a town, then it would take 1/4th less of our soldiers to do the same thing. If their tours are going to be extended anyway, take them out of harms way and let the Iraqis fight for their freedom, not our soldiers.

you have secure provinces....they are secure because of the number of soliders / police there.....what makes you think they are not drawing down to approprtaie levels and shifting assets?

as for switching places? i would venture to say we fight better than the iraqis do....we proved that 5 years ago...if you switch you miught as well just leave

[lily]

as i said they have stood up in the north and south.....problem is downtown and the wild west....

We've already been through this one. Move them.


Excuse me while I go bang my head against the wall!

[manu1959]

Yeah, you're the second one that gave me that pat answer.....the last 2 years was the question........and those Iraqis standing up.

Lost intrest.......hardly, patience for the way this war is being fought....you betcha!

it is not a pat answer....you asked militarily....the military was done 5 years ago....it is a police action and counter terrorist gig...think northern ireland but worse....

[glockmail]

I am not talking a timetable.........I'm talking about 5 years of training Iraqi soldiers. We are not building a country NOW, we are in the middle of fighting a war........a war I might add again that should be by now fought by the Iraqis. Good God, man...........how long does it take to train soldiers? I wish our men had 5 years of training. If you insits on bringing in WW2....then we tought farmers faster than that. It's the damn arabs! Hold on while I join you at the wall.

[lily]

I think the problem is that you can't rely on arabs. They're lazy, deceitful, and stupid. At least that's been my experience. Every one that I've delt with.

I've already answered this one...........then I want a refund. We've been training them, we should have "known" that they were useless.........your words not mine and stopped wasting our money and stop lying to the American public that we were training them........in fact.......we're still sending money to train them. We can fight over there forever, but until the Iraqs are ready to do the fighting for their freedom, then it's a lost cause.

[manu1959]

We've already been through this one. Move them.
Excuse me while I go bang my head against the wall!

i have already answered you why i wouldn't move them / switch them....

but for fun lets say you took all the us boys and put them up north and down south and turned the iraqi army loose in the middle...kiss the middle good by and you have three countries....

[glockmail]

it is not a pat answer....you asked militarily....the military was done 5 years ago....it is a police action and counter terrorist gig...think northern ireland but worse.... I said a LONG time ago that Iraq should be divided into three nations, all with easily enforceable borders. Isolate them from each other as well as Iran and Syria. NOBODY listened.

[lily]

you have secure provinces....they are secure because of the number of soliders / police there.....what makes you think they are not drawing down to approprtaie levels and shifting assets?

Because we are sending 20,000 + thousand men over there.


as for switching places? i would venture to say we fight better than the iraqis do....we proved that 5 years ago...if you switch you miught as well just leave

Ok........now we're down to if you switch we might as well leave???

[manu1959]

I said a LONG time ago that Iraq should be divided into three nations, all with easily enforceable borders. Isolate them from each other as well as Iran and Syria. NOBODY listened.

a looooooooooong time ago i said to close all foreign military bases secure our borders, cut off all foreign aid and outsource to middle america....

[manu1959]

Because we are sending 20,000 + thousand men over there.
Ok........now we're down to if you switch we might as well leave???

and the 200,000 men are being focused on the most volitile place.....like when there is a riot.....you don't send the riot squad to the subburbs and the doughnut eaters to quell the riot.....and no twas you idea to put the best troops in the most secure place and the worst troops in the most dangerous place...

[lily]

[QUOTE=manu1959;42578]it is not a pat answer

I said that, because someone else already gave me that reply.


....you asked militarily....the military was done 5 years ago....it is a police action and counter terrorist gig...think northern ireland but worse....


WHAT???????

[lily]

i have already answered you why i wouldn't move them / switch them....

but for fun lets say you took all the us boys and put them up north and down south and turned the iraqi army loose in the middle...kiss the middle good by and you have three countries....

You know then, manu.......that would be their war fought their way. Sometimes I think that's the way it's going to end anyway and we'll have them picking at each other just like Israel and Palestine.

[manu1959]

[QUOTE]
I said that, because someone else already gave me that reply.
WHAT???????

smart guy or girl then.....

since iraq colapsed militarily in the first month.....there was a vacuum....iraq colappsed too quick...nothing filled it....we have been in a social and police action hell ever since....comparison is northern ireland just more violent

[lily]

i have already answered you why i wouldn't move them / switch them....

but for fun lets say you took all the us boys and put them up north and down south and turned the iraqi army loose in the middle...kiss the middle good by and you have three countries....

........but just a couple of pages ago you said they were fighitng side by side with our soldiers. I do think though that we all might be in agreement that 3 countries might be the answer.........I'll take what I can get.:cool:

[lily]

[QUOTE=manu1959;42595][QUOTE=lily;42591]



since iraq colapsed militarily in the first month.....

Well, not exactly Bremmer thought it was a brilliant idea to disban the entire army....now we've got those trained military men without a job.......with their weapons and then in the begining of the war, we also captured enemy and let them go with their weapons........and just to make it even better, when we had Sadr in Najaf, we brokered a peace deal to let him and his army go with their weapons........but then again we're talking about the past and I still haven't gotten the other part of my quesiton answered.......what have we done militarily in Iraq in the last 2 years?

[manu1959]

........but just a couple of pages ago you said they were fighitng side by side with our soldiers. I do think though that we all might be in agreement that 3 countries might be the answer.........I'll take what I can get.:cool:

in the middle section they are side by side....

[manu1959]

[QUOTE][QUOTE=manu1959;42595]

Well, not exactly Bremmer thought it was a brilliant idea to disban the entire army....now we've got those trained military men without a job.......with their weapons and then in the begining of the war, we also captured enemy and let them go with their weapons........and just to make it even better, when we had Sadr in Najaf, we brokered a peace deal to let him and his army go with their weapons........but then again we're talking about the past and I still haven't gotten the other part of my quesiton answered.......what have we done militarily in Iraq in the last 2 years?

well that all looks like a bad idea about now doesn't it ..... i think the country fell too quick....no one knew what to do

[lily]

well that all looks like a bad idea about now doesn't it ..... i think the country fell too quick....no one knew what to do

It started with the looting IMO and we should have gotten the hint when they couldn't even pull down the statue themselves, we had to do that for them too............hey but look on the bright side........I think between the three of us......we just figured out how to win this war.


.........oh and thanks again......

[Pale Rider]

It started with the looting IMO and we should have gotten the hint when they couldn't even pull down the statue themselves, we had to do that for them too............hey but look on the bright side........I think between the three of us......we just figured out how to win this war.


.........oh and thanks again......

Ya know, I agree with much of your thoughts. I think the war has been mishandled too. It appears we started with "shock and awe", and are ending with "cut and run". If we acted like this was a real war, and let our troops simply stomp accrossed the land eliminating anything that even slightly ressembled a terrorist, I'd bet this would be over sooner than later. But I agree with you that it seems as though were doing nothing and getting nowhere. Every day it's the same thing. Bombs, snipers, and piles of bloody dead people. The days turn into weeks. The weeks into months. And the months into years, and there doesn't seem to be any improvement. Well, whether you think the answer is "pat" or not, a lot of that impression comes from the constant drum beat of the liberal MSM. God knows they have plenty death and destruction to report on. But I also understand your anger. I don't think there's been enough progress either. I also don't think we'll EVER see a violence free Iraq. It will NEVER HAPPEN. We are going to have to pick a point to say, "we gotta go, there's nothing more we can do." These arabs have been killing each other for CENTURIES, and I think it's quite arrogant of us to think that we can create some sort of utopia country right in the middle of it where no one kills each other anymore.

[Nuc]

Remember when Bush said, "You're either for it or against it."

Likewise it could be said the war is either won or lost. It sure ain't won, nor does that look likely.

[Sitarro]

That would be vandalizing. Dog shit is a better idea. And its organic, and free.

Here is a revenge recipe I gave to a friend who was being cheated on by his wife.....
put some litter box urine balls into a jar and add your own, you know, to the mix, let ferment for a month in the hot sun, find offender's car and pour into the air vent space in front of the windshield........when the heater and or ac is turned on the smell will destroy the car forever. Or trap a skunk and put it into the car.

He did this to his rival's truck, priceless.:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

[Psychoblues]

Here is my recipe for zorro.





Here is a revenge recipe I gave to a friend who was being cheated on by his wife.....
put some litter box urine balls into a jar and add your own, you know, to the mix, let ferment for a month in the hot sun, find offender's car and pour into the air vent space in front of the windshield........when the heater and or ac is turned on the smell will destroy the car forever. Or trap a skunk and put it into the car.

He did this to his rival's truck, priceless.:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Shit in his nest and he will love the smell, warmth and atmosphere so much that he will never turn over your trash can again.

Well, that's the theory. He probably will climb on the trash can again but all the rest is absolutely true. He will dive straight back into his shitty nest.

[stephanie]

Here is my recipe for Zorro.






Shit in his nest and he will love the smell, warmth and atmosphere so much that he will never turn over your trashcan again.

Well, that's the theory. He probably will climb on the trash can again but all the rest is absolutely true. He will dive straight back into his shitty nest.


Weeeelllllll. that didn't make a bit of friggin sense........:slap:
But...we don't expect much after Busch hour.....

[glockmail]

a looooooooooong time ago i said to close all foreign military bases secure our borders, cut off all foreign aid and outsource to middle america.... That would be preferable if we could go back to that. Buts its too late, as we are fully involved. Maybe once we stabilize the place we could do what you said.

[glockmail]

Here is a revenge recipe I gave to a friend who was being cheated on by his wife.....
put some litter box urine balls into a jar and add your own, you know, to the mix, let ferment for a month in the hot sun, find offender's car and pour into the air vent space in front of the windshield........when the heater and or ac is turned on the smell will destroy the car forever. Or trap a skunk and put it into the car.

He did this to his rival's truck, priceless.:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: Remember the movie Grumpy Old Men when one guy put a dead fish in the other's back seat?

[Pale Rider]

Remember when Bush said, "You're either for it or against it."

Likewise it could be said the war is either won or lost. It sure ain't won, nor does that look likely.

I don't recall the either for it or against it Nuc. Do you mean the, "you're either with us or against us"?

I think victory in Iraq is going to have to be leaving when Iraq is at least able to stand on it's own and not implode without us there. Because I believe the killing will go forever. They're trained their KIDS to do it for Christ sake, and they're not even grown yet. So we have GENERATIONS of trained killers yet to hit the streets. We gotta leave when Iraq can stand on it's own.

[Pale Rider]

Well I'll be DAMNED! The president just gave an Iraq update speach, and said NOTHING about dinjy Harry's comment. See.... that's why conservatives got their asses handed to them in the last election, FOR NOT STANDING UP TO SHIT BALLS LIKE REID AND THE TRASH THEY TALK!!!!

Fuck you Bush, you fucking PUSSY!!! :upyours:

Where's Ronald Reagan?

[Abbey Marie]

Well I'll be DAMNED! The president just gave an Iraq update speach, and said NOTHING about dinjy Harry's comment. See.... that's why conservatives got their asses handed to them in the last election, FOR NOT STANDING UP TO SHIT BALLS LIKE REID AND THE TRASH THEY TALK!!!!
...


I just ordered this book from Amazon, on this very subject: Crazies to the Left of Me, Wimps to the Right: How One Side Lost Its Mind and the Other Lost Its Nerve
by Bernard Goldberg

[stephanie]

Scolds isn't enough.....They should make Reid resign..
Good for Lieberman though..

Lieberman Scolds Reid For 'War Lost' Remark
2:21 PM EDT, April 20, 2007
By DAVID LIGHTMAN, Washington Bureau Chief WASHINGTON -- Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman rebuked Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid on Friday, saying he strongly disagreed with Reid's assessment that the Iraq war is "lost."

"This is exactly the wrong time to question our strategy in Iraq," said Lieberman, "or that our new strategy has failed."

Reid Thursday triggered an avalanche of Republican protest when he said that "the secretary of state, secretary of defense and -- you have to make your own decisions as to what the president knows -- [know] this war is lost and the surge is not accomplishing anything…"

Republicans immediately tore into Reid, and Friday, Lieberman, an independent who caucuses with Senate Democrats, joined the chorus.

While his position on the Iraq war has been at odds with virtually every other Senate Democrat, Lieberman has been careful to stress areas where he and Democrats have common ground on other issues.

But Friday, he charged, "Sen. Reid's statement is not based on military facts on the ground in Iraq and does not advance our cause there."

Lieberman cited al Qaeda, which administration officials believe is active in Iraq. "They are trying to murder as many innocent civilians as possible," the senator said, "in an effort to reignite sectarian fighting and drive us to retreat from Iraq.

"The question now before us," Lieberman said, "is whether we respond to these terrorist attacks by running away, as al Qaeda hopes -- abandoning the future of Iraq, the Middle East and ultimately our own security to the very same people responsible for this week's atrocities -- or whether we stand united to fight them."

To Lieberman, the choice is clear. "We should provide General Petraeus and his troops with the time and the resources to succeed. We should not surrender in the face of barbarism." Gen. Davis Petraeus is the top U. S. commander in Iraq.
http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc-lieberman-reid-0420,0,6919400.story?coll=hc-headlines-home

[Pale Rider]

I have my doubts as to whether or not Iraq will EVER be murder free. Those arabs have been killing each other for centuries, are doing it now, and will do it in the future no matter what. Question is, when will Iraq be "stable" enough to deal with it on it's own?

War's lost? Not by any stretch of the imagination. Reid, you should be tried for high treason, and shot at dawn if convicted.

[Kathianne]

I have my doubts as to whether or not Iraq will EVER be murder free. Those arabs have been killing each other for centuries, are doing it now, and will do it in the future no matter what. Question is, when will Iraq be "stable" enough to deal with it on it's own?

War's lost? Not by any stretch of the imagination. Reid, you should be tried for high treason, and shot at dawn if convicted.

I don't know about treason, but 'un-American' certainly fits. Links at site:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_04_15-2007_04_21.shtml#1177095596


[Eugene Volokh, April 20, 2007 at 2:59pm] Trackbacks
Middle Eastern Media Take Up Reid's "War Is Lost":

Iranian Press TV reports, in response to Reid's statement:

Leader of the Democratic majority in the US Congress, Harry Reid, has said the US has lost the Iraq war, and Bush's troop surge has failed.... Reid's comments came a day after 200 fatalities were reported in bombings in Iraq, despite a much touted US Security Plan which the White House said sought to root out insurgency."

A Republican party e-mail also reported the following as translations of items from Al-Jazeera Online, and Al-Sharq Al-Awsat, "The Leading Arabic International Daily"; please let me know if the translations are inaccurate:

"Yesterday the leader of the Democratic majority in Congress, Harry Reid, announced that he conveyed to Bush that the United States lost the war in Iraq and that the additional America forces that were sent there will not succeed in the achievement of any positive progress."

"Leader of the Democratic majority in the US Congress, Harry Reid, has said the US has lost the Iraq war, and Bush's troop surge has failed.... Reid's comments came a day after 200 fatalities were reported in bombings in Iraq, despite a much touted US Security Plan which the White House said sought to root out insurgency."

As I have said before, it may well be quite proper -- and certainly constitutionally protected -- for people to criticize the war; and sometimes the benefits of such criticism, even of the "war is lost" variety and even when said by leading U.S. politicians, outweigh the costs. Yet it seems to me hard to doubt that this statement will have grave cost.

If Napoleon was right that "In war the moral [meaning 'morale'] is to the material as three to one," then it seems to me that Reid's statements may prove highly objectively costly, chiefly by strengthening the enemy's morale as well as by weaking our own soldiers'. Likewise if Churchill was right that even statements that "weaken confidence in the Government" and "make the Army distrust the backing it is getting from the civil power" may prove to be "to the distress of all our friends and to the delight of all our foes" (Speech in the House of Commons (July 2, 1942)). How much more distress and delight must be caused by statements that represent that the Congressional majority actually believes the war to be lost.

Maybe, as I said, the benefit of the statements exceeds their harm. And maybe the harm will be modest, because everyone -- among our enemies as well as among our military -- has already assumed that the Democratic leadership thinks this. Yet my suspicion is that the harm will be quite substantial indeed.

[Pale Rider]

I don't know about treason, but 'un-American' certainly fits. Links at site:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_04_15-2007_04_21.shtml#1177095596

I'm almost speachless. I know what I think, and what I think should be done, but our spinelss, gutless, jellyfish we have in the republican party right now will probably let him slide. It's disgusting to watch.

[Kathianne]

I'm almost speachless. I know what I think, and what I think should be done, but our spinelss, gutless, jellyfish we have in the republican party right now will probably let him slide. It's disgusting to watch.

I agree, the administration has been stone deaf about attacks upon its policies from the get go. That to me has been the #1 reason they are where they are. Which would be like 'their choice' if it weren't taking the country down with it.

[gabosaurus]

I think the Bushies know that Iraq is now out of control. There is nothing anyone can do to remedy the situation. Their only hope is to keep the war going until Jan., 2009. That way, finding a solution will be someone else's problem.
Sure, it will cost a few more thousand lives. That has never mattered much to the Bushies.

[lily]

I don't know about treason, but 'un-American' certainly fits. Links at site:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_04_15-2007_04_21.shtml#1177095596
A Republican party e-mail also reported the following as translations of items from Al-Jazeera Online, and Al-Sharq Al-Awsat, "The Leading Arabic International Daily"; please let me know if the translations are inaccurate:

"Yesterday the leader of the Democratic majority in Congress, Harry Reid, announced that he conveyed to Bush that the United States lost the war in Iraq and that the additional America forces that were sent there will not succeed in the achievement of any positive progress."

"Leader of the Democratic majority in the US Congress, Harry Reid, has said the US has lost the Iraq war, and Bush's troop surge has failed.... Reid's comments came a day after 200 fatalities were reported in bombings in Iraq, despite a much touted US Security Plan which the White House said sought to root out insurgency."


You know....I was curious to see just what Al-Jazeera Online had to say...according to the Republicans, they pay very close attention to our politics and spin everything in their favor for propoganda, so I went and read what they REALLY did say about this.


http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E37E4CB2-622B-445C-A96C-C7B79219CB70.htm
Iraq war 'lost' says top Democrat


The US war in Iraq is lost and a further build-up of US
troops in the country will not recover the situation, the senior Democrat in
the US senate has said.

"This war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing
anything, as is shown by the extreme violence in Iraq this week," Harry
Reid, the senate Democratic majority leader, told reporters.




Reid, who held talks with George Bush on Wednesday, said
he told the president that he thought the war could not be won through
military force.

Only political, economic and diplomatic means could bring
success, he said.


His comments came as the US defence secretary told Iraqi
leaders that US support for the country was not an "open-ended commitment".

Robert Gates was speaking as he left Tel Aviv for his
first visit to Iraq since the US decided to send an extra 30,000 troops to
the country in what the Bush administration has labelled a troop surge.

On Wednesday at least 180 people were killed in a series
of bombings in Baghdad, with one blast near a market killing more than 140
people - the deadliest single bomb attack in the capital since the US-led
invasion in 2003.

On Thursday, the violence continued when a suicide car
bomber rammed into a fuel truck, killing 12 people and injuring 24 others in
the Jadiriya district of Baghdad.

Now, who'd of thunk that a propaganda machine like Al-Jazazeera would actually take the full statement......which after you look at it, isn't much different than what all the experts have said.. I agree he shouldn't have said what he did, but it's time somebody did.

[lily]

I think the Bushies know that Iraq is now out of control. There is nothing anyone can do to remedy the situation. Their only hope is to keep the war going until Jan., 2009. That way, finding a solution will be someone else's problem.
Sure, it will cost a few more thousand lives. That has never mattered much to the Bushies.


Well......Bush has said that getting our soldiers out wold be the next president's job, so this really isn't surprising. In fact with the monumental mistakes that have been made, I think that is they only way we're going to get out......Lord knows slogans haven't done us much good.

[Kathianne]

Seems a lot of letters are going to Senator Reid, well deserved I might add. This is my favorite and comments are welcomed at the site. According to what I've heard, he does mean to sue:

http://crotchetyoldbastard.com/blog/2007/04/thank_you_senator_reid.html


Dear Senator Reid,
Thank you for finally putting this whole Iraq War mess to bed. The timing couldn’t be better for my family.

You see, my son is serving in this “lost war” with the 82nd Airborne Division; actually on his third tour. My family will be very happy to have him home within 30 days because then he can attend my daughter’s graduation from college and Commissioning Ceremony.
My bride is skeptical of all of this but I reassured her that I know for a fact that he will be home soon because based on your statement and being the Senate Majority Leader, you will kill all funding for this “lost war” immediately.

My bride was still unconvinced and I explained it to her this way.
If Senator Reid, based on the information that the Senate Majority Leader has, has determined that this war is lost; there is nothing left to do but come home. The way I see it, if you were to vote for anything less; you would be personally liable for any future wounded or God-Forbid dead soldiers.

Although, I have the utmost confidence that you will do the right thing and de-fund this war immediately; I have retained legal council just in case.

So, know this Senator; if you don’t de-fund this war within seven days, I will hold you personably liable for any harm to American servicemen. If the war is lost and you have the power to end it then just do it. Stop whining like a bitch and just do it.


Tort law: an overview
Torts are civil wrongs recognized by law as grounds for a lawsuit. These wrongs result in an injury or harm constituting the basis for a claim by the injured party. While some torts are also crimes punishable with imprisonment, the primary aim of tort law is to provide relief for the damages incurred and deter others from committing the same harms. The injured person may sue for an injunction to prevent the continuation of the tortious conduct or for monetary damages.

Negligence

From Wex, everyone's resource for law learning
Failure to exercise due care. When a person fails to exercise the care that a reasonable, prudent person would exercise under the same circumstances, that person is said to be negligent.

Intention
Intentional torts are those wrongs which the defendant knew or should have known would occur through their actions or inactions.
I have listened to your bullshit long enough. You, a person in high authority in the US government, have made a definitive statement that an action is occurring with no redeeming value. Said action is causing harm and death to US citizens. You have the unique power to stop said action and thusly stop the harm.

So Harry, I say have the balls to actually do it or find yourself liable.
Governing is not just whining and pandering. At some point you have to actually govern. It is painfully clear that you have neither the intellectual power nor the fuzzy kiwis to actually do it.

Feel free to share this with Neville Nancy as I plan the exact same action for her pathetic ass.
The soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen that you are endangering by either your idiotic statements that empower the enemy or your overt inaction that contributes to their danger; are American citizens. In either case, you have endangered them and you alone have the ability to correct it.

See you in court.
Very sincerely,
Crotchety Old Bastard

PS: I am asking all veterans, friends and families of servicemen and simple good Americans to please add a comment to this post. I will forward it to Senator Reid.

PSS: I know that Senator Reid’s comments likely upset many of you as it clearly did me. I have my flesh and blood that has been endangered by this jack-ass so please forgive the salty nature of this post.

Posted by cobdanny on April 19, 2007 08:41 PM

[stephanie]

Seems a lot of letters are going to Senator Reid, well deserved I might add. This is my favorite and comments are welcomed at the site. According to what I've heard, he does mean to sue:

http://crotchetyoldbastard.com/blog/2007/04/thank_you_senator_reid.html

:clap: :clap:

[LuvRPgrl]

So who do you have lined up to run against the spineless puke in his next election?

Alec Baldwins daughter.

[LuvRPgrl]

Reid, called out. Links at site:


http://austinbay.net/blog/?p=1764

Didnt reid later say something like

" I didnt say it was lost before it was lost, but I did say it wasnt lost after it was lost unless we didnt lose it, and I did vote for its being lost before I voted for it not being lost"

[LuvRPgrl]

a looooooooooong time ago i said to close all foreign military bases secure our borders, cut off all foreign aid and outsource to middle america....

So you are an isolationist. First, it wouldnt work in the modern economies of the world. We would eventually be overshadowed by someone like China and they could develope a superior military and eventully imperialize us.
Second, our government has NO SUCH AUTHORITY to do that. You have NO AUTHORITY to prevent me from trading with another country on a wholesale level. You can prevent certain isolated trading for some specific reasons, but you simply cannot do it on a wholesale scale against a wholesale scale of peoples.

[LuvRPgrl]

........but just a couple of pages ago you said they were fighitng side by side with our soldiers. I do think though that we all might be in agreement that 3 countries might be the answer.........I'll take what I can get.:cool:

I agree. Its my understanding that the three groups are scattered throughout the country. To carry out the agenda of three seperate countries, we would have to move by force, all the three groups that would not be living in their designated region.
Also, having three countries could allow the terrorists to focus all their energy on one. It would be much easier for them to attain control over all of Iraq by doing it one region at a time. How it is now, we have them scattered throughout Iraq and Afghanastan. While the commie libs are screaming that having our troops split into 2 different countries is what is causing us to be being losing, it is in fact a good strategy because they forget it is also causing dispersement of the terrorists.

[manu1959]

So you are an isolationist. First, it wouldnt work in the modern economies of the world. We would eventually be overshadowed by someone like China and they could develope a superior military and eventully imperialize us.
Second, our government has NO SUCH AUTHORITY to do that. You have NO AUTHORITY to prevent me from trading with another country on a wholesale level. You can prevent certain isolated trading for some specific reasons, but you simply cannot do it on a wholesale scale against a wholesale scale of peoples.

as a private company you can do as you like....i am simply tired of my tax dollars funding jobs in other countries, wars in other countries, military bases in other countries, hell funding entire other countries when this money if invested in the united states would crush the economies of other nations....you are aware that they have gas rationing in china.....the us would be no more vulnerable than switzerland....

[LuvRPgrl]

as a private company you can do as you like....i am simply tired of my tax dollars funding jobs in other countries, wars in other countries, military bases in other countries, hell funding entire other countries when this money if invested in the united states would crush the economies of other nations....you are aware that they have gas rationing in china.....the us would be no more vulnerable than switzerland....

Well, I agree on the taxation issue. Many of us, as we got older, have come to realize that taxes beyond those needed to maintain a unified govt so to keep the public safety, is IMMORAL, ILLEGAL, and I will do anything to reduce my tax burden.

[Gaffer]

Well, then wouldn't it be a good idea to move these well trained men into where the battle is that our men seem to be fighting for them?

There are a number of iraqi brigades in baghdad now. There is as much fighting being done by the iraqi army as there is by the US. All operations now include elements of the iraqi army and police. And in many cases the iraqi's are doing their own operations.

An upsurge in bombings and killings is to be expected. The media knows that and is waiting anxiously to report on all the slaughter. They always miss the killing of terrorists and the huge stock piles of weapons and explosives found, or the hundreds of prisoners taken in a sweep of a neighborhood. Somehow the only thing mentioned is the bombing of a market.

Would be nice if the media were on our side.

[Gaffer]

reid is like all the other senior dems in congress. A traitor. So is the media. The war would be over in iraq now if it weren't for embasiles like him and the support of the media. All they are doing is feeding the morale of the islamists and tearing down the morale of our troops and those here at home. It encourages our enemies to keep fighting. This in turn causes more casualties among our troops.

The dems and the media are discusting.

[lily]

They always miss the killing of terrorists and the huge stock piles of weapons and explosives found, or the hundreds of prisoners taken in a sweep of a neighborhood. Somehow the only thing mentioned is the bombing of a market.

Would be nice if the media were on our side.

I'd like to read some of those articles about the stock piles of weapons and prisoners.:link:

[manu1959]

i would like to know why this.........

the dems have been opposed to the war for what? 2-3 years now?

they say the whole thing is a lie and failure?

why have they not exerted their newfound power and voted to quit?

[stephanie]

i would like to know why this.........

the dems have been opposed to the war for what? 2-3 years now?

they say the whole thing is a lie and failure?

why have they not exerted their newfound power and voted to quit?

Because..they know they would get their asses handed to them in the 08 election..
But yet...they have to keep their rabid dog lefties happy also, so they don't care if they PLAY POLITICTS with the soldiers lives...

Power means more to them....Sick bunch..:pee:

[lily]

i would like to know why this.........

Well, I'm still waiting for an answer to my question. Can someone please explain to me what in the past 2 years have we milirarily accomplished in Iraq?

So good luck with your's.....I assume you will get lots of anwers like this though:pee:




the dems have been opposed to the war for what? 2-3 years now?

they say the whole thing is a lie and failure?

why have they not exerted their newfound power and voted to quit?

Exactly what we are doing now.......demanding results, though the pocketbook.

[manu1959]

Well, I'm still waiting for an answer to my question. Can someone please explain to me what in the past 2 years have we milirarily accomplished in Iraq?

So good luck with your's.....I assume you will get lots of anwers like this though:pee:

Exactly what we are doing now.......demanding results, though the pocketbook.

i answered your questions....politley....

demanding results? but they have deemed the war lost the results are in....they should pull the plug...the should vote to pull the troops....anything less is disingenuous....see they are they majority but done have the balls....they will pull funding then blame bush for pulling the troops .... passive agressive .....

[lily]

i answered your questions....politley....

I don't recall an answer to what in the past 2 years have we milirarily accomplished in Iraq? I do recall a great debate about what we would do with the troops, though.




demanding results? but they have deemed the war lost the results are in....they should pull the plug...the should vote to pull the troops....anything less is disingenuous....see they are they majority but done have the balls....they will pull funding then blame bush for pulling the troops .... passive agressive .....

....but you see Congress doesn't have the power to pull the plug, they do have the power of funding. I don't see how they can put the blame on Bush for them pulling the funding, its not some deep dark secret. Checks and balances, manu.......it keeps the one in charge from waging his own private war.

[manu1959]

I don't recall an answer to what in the past 2 years have we milirarily accomplished in Iraq? I do recall a great debate about what we would do with the troops, though.
....but you see Congress doesn't have the power to pull the plug, they do have the power of funding. I don't see how they can put the blame on Bush for them pulling the funding, its not some deep dark secret. Checks and balances, manu.......it keeps the one in charge from waging his own private war.

you should go back and look....i answered you....

as for private wars....i seem to recall big bill waged two without un backing or congressional approval .... but that does not justify this adventure....i think if congress is really against it they should stand up and pull the plug....vote to pull the troops vote to pull the money...but do something...stop complaining though...

[lily]

[QUOTE=manu1959;45137]you should go back and look....i answered you....

Well, actually you gave me what they did 5 years ago.


as for private wars....i seem to recall big bill waged two without un backing or congressional approval .... but that does not justify this adventure....i think if congress is really against it they should stand up and pull the plug....vote to pull the troops vote to pull the money...but do something...stop complaining though...

I don't believe Congress can vote to end a war. As for the complaining....I see it coming from both sides.

[manu1959]

[QUOTE]

Well, actually you gave me what they did 5 years ago.

I don't believe Congress can vote to end a war. As for the complaining....I see it coming from both sides.

i seem to recall that was your question? what has the militrya doe in the last two years.....north and south are as stable as any major us city...the middle as i said sucks....

the right is complaing about the left complaining....left claims they can do something....fine do it....harry and nancy have the majority do something....stop talking and do something....

[lily]

[QUOTE=lily;45146]

i seem to recall that was your question? what has the militrya doe in the last two years.....north and south are as stable as any major us city...the middle as i said sucks....

If you say so, but according to the news, 9 soldiers were killed in Diyala in the north east and Mosul and Kirkik are also in the north.


the right is complaing about the left complaining....left claims they can do something....fine do it....harry and nancy have the majority do something....stop talking and do something....


Yep.....both sides are complaining......the difference is The Democrats and some Repulicans are finally understanding that Stay the Course@ isn't working. No one is crazy enough to want a total withdrawl.......that something else has to be tried.

[manu1959]

[QUOTE=manu1959;45148]

If you say so, but according to the news, 9 soldiers were killed in Diyala in the north east and Mosul and Kirkik are also in the north.

Yep.....both sides are complaining......the difference is The Democrats and some Repulicans are finally understanding that Stay the Course@ isn't working. No one is crazy enough to want a total withdrawl.......that something else has to be tried.

11 people were killed in philly the other day should we surrender there?.....

there are three choices then?....keep fighting, which you say is not working....quit, which you say is a bad idea.....so that leaves what? negotiate?

[lily]

[QUOTE=lily;45165]

11 people were killed in philly the other day should we surrender there?.....

I wasn't aware that we were at war with Philly. Tell you what......when 9 soldiers and at least 100 citizens get killed per day, then we'll talk philly. We've had non-stop 24/7 coverage of 32 college kids that were killed. I can't imagine at the very least 100 people killed per day.


there are three choices then?....keep fighting, which you say is not working....quit, which you say is a bad idea.....so that leaves what? negotiate?
No, there is another choice......change the strategy. I posted an article about Maliki saying he doesn't want the brick wall put up around a city. We told him tough..........now if the elected leader, who our soldiers guarded the citizens of Iraq to vote in and tell us he thinks doing something is wrong, and we don't listen.......why did we bother and what is the use? We've been told the surge was there so the government would be able to govern, then when they do..........

[manu1959]

[QUOTE=manu1959;45169]

I wasn't aware that we were at war with Philly. Tell you what......when 9 soldiers and at least 100 citizens get killed per day, then we'll talk philly. We've had non-stop 24/7 coverage of 32 college kids that were killed. I can't imagine at the very least 100 people killed per day.


No, there is another choice......change the strategy. I posted an article about Maliki saying he doesn't want the brick wall put up around a city. We told him tough..........now if the elected leader, who our soldiers guarded the citizens of Iraq to vote in and tell us he thinks doing something is wrong, and we don't listen.......why did we bother and what is the use? We've been told the surge was there so the government would be able to govern, then when they do..........


i belive 16,000 people are murderd a year in the us so we are almost 1/2 way there........i read that maliki said stop building and we did.....

change to what strategy?....easy to say...hard to come up with something....

if you want to quit and negotiate....then pull everyone out and call for peace talks.....

if you want to win....send every troop we have and turn israel loose and tell them when you win you can come home....no limits no rules no media....

our plan from day one was to lose

[lily]

i belive 16,000 people are murderd a year in the us so we are almost 1/2 way there........i read that maliki said stop building and we did.....

change to what strategy?....easy to say...hard to come up with something....

if you want to quit and negotiate....then pull everyone out and call for peace talks.....

if you want to win....send every troop we have and turn israel loose and tell them when you win you can come home....no limits no rules no media....

our plan from day one was to lose
WHy do you keep quoting yourself.........you're making me dizzy.

The 100 is a lowball number for one thing and for the other they are murdered, they aren't killed in a war also you have to account for all the refugees.

No, according to the article I posted we did not stop building the wall.

I don't thin it' hard to come up with something......look what a few people here on a political forum.....can you imagine what they can come up with if the "poweres that be" actually changed plans?

........um for yur last point.......I'm the last one that you want to discuss Israel with......

[manu1959]

WHy do you keep quoting yourself.........you're making me dizzy.

The 100 is a lowball number for one thing and for the other they are murdered, they aren't killed in a war also you have to account for all the refugees.

No, according to the article I posted we did not stop building the wall.

I don't thin it' hard to come up with something......look what a few people here on a political forum.....can you imagine what they can come up with if the "poweres that be" actually changed plans?

........um for yur last point.......I'm the last one that you want to discuss Israel with......

sorry...i was raised by criminal defens attorneys and politicians...it is a genetic flaw....

yes looked again...maybe they are still building it....yes it may be easy to come up with something but until someone does we are stuck....

open a thread about israel...would love to hear your thoughts....

[theHawk]

Lily, I am curious where you keep getting this "5 years" number from. The invasion was 4 years ago.

[gabosaurus]

Bush has been planning the invasion of Iraq from his first day in office, Jan. 2001. That is actually six years ago.

[manu1959]

Bush has been planning the invasion of Iraq from his first day in office, Jan. 2001. That is actually six years ago.

Invasion plans for every nation in the world exist....the plan existed long before bush got there....

[gabosaurus]

As long as there is a U.S. presence in Iraq, there will be this. Presented for the enjoyment of all Bush apologists who get off on such.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c4d_1177370152

[manu1959]

As long as there is a U.S. presence in Iraq, there will be this. Presented for the enjoyment of all Bush apologists who get off on such.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c4d_1177370152

the US is present in quite a few countries.....car bombs only seem to happen here.....it would seem that the presence of the US is not the cause....

[gabosaurus]

the US is present in quite a few countries.....car bombs only seem to happen here.....it would seem that the presence of the US is not the cause....

So what is the cause of such? Bad produce at the outdoor market?

[glockmail]

So what is the cause of such? Bad produce at the outdoor market? Rag head Islamists killing each other.

[manu1959]

So what is the cause of such? Bad produce at the outdoor market?

no i don't think that is it...

[Abbey Marie]

no i don't think that is it...

Hey, maybe it is. The terrorists may have seen all those action movies where there's a car chase. One car demolishes a fruit stand, and the owner comes out into the street with his fist clenched. :rolleyes:

[LuvRPgrl]

[QUOTE=manu1959;45148]
Yep.....both sides are complaining......the difference is The Democrats and some Repulicans are finally understanding that Stay the Course@ isn't working. No one is crazy enough to want a total withdrawl.......that something else has to be tried.

Baloney. Some of both sides are complaining, but its vastly more from the dems.
And stay the course is not a strategy of any kind other than to say we stay until the goal is achieved. Thats a statement of the goal, NOT A STRATEGY. Calling it a bad strategy is the brainchild of the traitorous Dems and the Media who are two homos in bed together.

And it is working. The goal is topple saddam, institute a temp govt until a permanent one can be achieved along with a working constitution, start earing funds by contracts on the oil, and build up the military to the point they can sustain themselves (which, guess what? TAKES TIME)

ALL of that has been accomplished except the last one is a work in progress, and it is happening. Unfortunately the media doesnt report it that way, they make the American public think we are losing.

And there are numerous Dems who want an immediate withdrawl, Murtha anyone?

The Dems dont pull the financial plug because they want to be on both sides of the fence and garner votes for 08.
They support the war while they dont support the war. Is Kerry still in charge there?

The idea is they can publicly oppose the war, but privately support it. Individuals can come out publicly to decry the war and gain support from the middle, while all the time the dems as a block vote to fund it, in which case no one person gets blamed.

[LuvRPgrl]

So what is the cause of such? Bad produce at the outdoor market?

These terrorists have been suicide bombing anyone and everyone for years. Its simply because they think its an opportunity to take over power. Many of them are old royal guard of saddams

You dont seriously think if we pulled out they would simply go home and stop the violence do you?

[manu1959]

Hey, maybe it is. The terrorists may have seen all those action movies where there's a car chase. One car demolishes a fruit stand, and the owner comes out into the street with his fist clenched. :rolleyes:


excellent....that is like the movie the jerk....when he says..."he hates those cans...."

[lily]

Lily, I am curious where you keep getting this "5 years" number from. The invasion was 4 years ago.

Hmmmm no embarrassed smilie here....thank you Hawk.

[avatar4321]

If we have lost the war, who won it? Al Qaida? Iran? Saddam? who?

[lily]

the US is present in quite a few countries.....car bombs only seem to happen here.....it would seem that the presence of the US is not the cause....


I didn't clik on the link..but if you're trying to tell me that car bombs only happen in Iraq, I believe you may be wrong. They are on the rise in Afghanistan for one.

[lily]

=LuvRPgrl;46345]

Baloney. Some of both sides are complaining, but its vastly more from the dems.

Come closer to election time and you will see who is still supporting this war. I don't think the Republicans are that dumb that they will stick to this failed policy. You're going to see them jumping ship faster than rats on the Titanic, if they learned their lesson from the last election.


And stay the course is not a strategy of any kind other than to say we stay until the goal is achieved. Thats a statement of the goal, NOT A STRATEGY.


Oh I agree %100 that Stay the Course is not a strategy. I'm not the one that thought it up, nor did any Democrat. That's owned by your CIC.....odd though, he hasn't used it in quite a while......I wonder why that is?


Calling it a bad strategy is the brainchild of the traitorous Dems and the Media who are two homos in bed together.

Make up your mind.....is it a strategy or not?


And it is working. The goal is topple saddam, institute a temp govt until a permanent one can be achieved along with a working constitution, start earing funds by contracts on the oil, and build up the military to the point they can sustain themselves (which, guess what? TAKES TIME)

Well....all except for that military that refuses to stand up as we were promised all the other ones are done.


ALL of that has been accomplished except the last one is a work in progress, and it is happening. Unfortunately the media doesnt report it that way, they make the American public think we are losing.

hmmmmmmm then how do you know all that has been accomplished?


And there are numerous Dems who want an immediate withdrawl, Murtha anyone?

Yes Murtha is ONE.


The Dems dont pull the financial plug because they want to be on both sides of the fence and garner votes for 08.

Guess you haven't been watching the news, huh....oh yeah that's homo.:uhoh:



They support the war while they dont support the war. Is Kerry still in charge there?

You know, that is such old material, I won't bother with this one and give you a pass.


The idea is they can publicly oppose the war, but privately support it. Individuals can come out publicly to decry the war and gain support from the middle, while all the time the dems as a block vote to fund it, in which case no one person gets blamed.

Er um.......sorry this one doesn't make sense.

[lily]

If we have lost the war, who won it? Al Qaida? Iran? Saddam? who?


I realize both sides do it..take one sentence out of context, but let's look at the whole enchilada:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070419184534.ileoeb47&show_article=1


The war in Iraq "is lost" and a US troop surge is failing to bring peace to
the country, the leader of the Democratic majority in the US Congress, Harry
Reid, said Thursday.
"I believe ... that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing
anything, as is shown by the extreme violence in Iraq this week," Reid told
journalists.

Reid said he had delivered the same message to US President George W. Bush
on Wednesday, when the US president met with senior lawmakers to discuss how
to end a standoff over an emergency war funding bill.

"I know I was the odd guy out at the White House, but I told him at least
what he needed to hear ... I believe the war at this stage can only be won
diplomatically, politically and economically."

[avatar4321]

I realize both sides do it..take one sentence out of context, but let's look at the whole enchilada:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070419184534.ileoeb47&show_article=1

How is it at all out of context? he said we lost. In order to lose, someone has to win. Who won?

[lily]

It clearly states that we lost militarily. There are other ways to win a war, beside who kills the most people.

[avatar4321]

It clearly states that we lost militarily. There are other ways to win a war, beside who kills the most people.

your attempts to spin this are quiet dumbfounding to me..... how do you win a war if not militarily?

[glockmail]

Harry Reid has sent the identical message Tokyo Rose broadcast to our troops in the Far East during World War II. After the war, Tokyo Rose was tried and convicted of treason.

http://www.cfiflistmanager.org/impeachharryreid1nm.html

[Gaffer]

http://www.cfiflistmanager.org/impeachharryreid1nm.html

Hopefully we won't have to wait that long for reid to be tried.

[glockmail]

Hopefully we won't have to wait that long for reid to be tried. Do you seriously think the Republicans are going to do it? Don't hold your breath.

[LuvRPgrl]

Come closer to election time and you will see who is still supporting this war. I don't think the Republicans are that dumb that they will stick to this failed policy. You're going to see them jumping ship faster than rats on the Titanic, if they learned their lesson from the last election..
OPINIONS are like assholes, everybody.....





Oh I agree %100 that Stay the Course is not a strategy. I'm not the one that thought it up, nor did any Democrat. That's owned by your CIC.....odd though, he hasn't used it in quite a while......I wonder why that is?.
Because the MSM and the dems mischaracterized it, just as you are doing.




Make up your mind.....is it a strategy or not?.
R U on drugs. I clearly stated it isnt a strategy and never wavered from that. I know being on the side of Kerry and the dems its hard to recognize an inwavering posistion, but there it is.




Well....all except for that military that refuses to stand up as we were promised all the other ones are done..
Aha, do you know how long it took the Americans to stand up and let the French leave during and after the revolutionary war? And their threat was all the way across the Atlantic.




hmmmmmmm then how do you know all that has been accomplished?.
Oh dear, hasnt anyone informed you there are news sources other than the "news" and MSM.




Yes Murtha is ONE..
You said NONE. U want more?



Guess you haven't been watching the news, huh....oh yeah that's homo.:uhoh: .[/QUOTE]
You are right. I listen to interviews of people the MSM considers either boring, or telling it like it is in Iraq. You know, like returning soldiers. Not to mention being down here near camp pendleton, I get to actually talk one on one with many who have served over there.





You know, that is such old material, I won't bother with this one and give you a pass..
No pass needed. It was true then, its true now.




Er um.......sorry this one doesn't make sense.
ha, it makes sense to others, I even got repped for it by several players.

[lily]

your attempts to spin this are quiet dumbfounding to me..... how do you win a war if not militarily?

In Reid's own words and as I believe Petraus (sp) himself said, not tomention the Iraq study group and many other experts.

I believe the war at this stage can only be won diplomatically, politically and economically."

[lily]

Hopefully we won't have to wait that long for reid to be tried.

Cool......do you think we can exaggerate this one out like the Pelosi thing, or the impeach Cheny thing? Like it or not, free speech is not dead in America yet.

[manu1959]

In Reid's own words and as I believe Petraus (sp) himself said, not tomention the Iraq study group and many other experts.

patraus also said that things were going well in certain areas and that not all the surge troops had yet been deployed....

[lily]

OPINIONS are like assholes, everybody.....

That they do. You might want to look how many Republicans voted today in the funding bill.......and trust me, next time around there will be more.






Because the MSM and the dems mischaracterized it, just as you are doing.

If you say so......I guess that's why Bush is backing away from it.





R U on drugs. I clearly stated it isnt a strategy and never wavered from that. I know being on the side of Kerry and the dems its hard to recognize an inwavering posistion, but there it is.

You sure do have a hard on for Kerry!





Aha, do you know how long it took the Americans to stand up and let the French leave during and after the revolutionary war? And their threat was all the way across the Atlantic.

Interesting, was Bush running those wars?





Oh dear, hasnt anyone informed you there are news sources other than the "news" and MSM.

Hey.....I'm not the one that's calling them homos.





You said NONE. U want more?

Sure, why not





You are right. I listen to interviews of people the MSM considers either boring, or telling it like it is in Iraq. You know, like returning soldiers. Not to mention being down here near camp pendleton, I get to actually talk one on one with many who have served over there.

Just above you said you don't listen to MSM......and I'm sure all those soldiers you get to talk to, all say the same thing? I doubt it, unless you're selective in who you talk to.




ha, it makes sense to others, I even got repped for it by several players.

Oh, I'll just bet you did!

[lily]

patraus also said that things were going well in certain areas and that not all the surge troops had yet been deployed....

Is this just part of what he said, manu or the entire sentence?



The situation is, in short, exceedingly challenging, though as I will briefly explain, there has been progress in several areas in recent months despite the sensational attacks by al Qaeda, which have, of course, been significant blows to our effort and which cause psychological damage that is typically even greater than their physical damage.

[diuretic]

Anyone got an idea about how long it should go on before enough is enough?

Now don't go all ideological on me, you supporters of the continuing occupation, just answer the question. Put yourself - and this goes for the lefties - in Bush's position. If you were the president what you would you do? I know that the first responses from the right will be to blame the media and to say it's fine everywhere except fifteen streets in a Sadrist suburb of Baghdad but that's to be expected. I'll ignore that bullshit as being irrelevant to the question.

How long would you keep putting troops into Iraq before you decided enough was enough?

[Dilloduck]

Anyone got an idea about how long it should go on before enough is enough?

Now don't go all ideological on me, you supporters of the continuing occupation, just answer the question. Put yourself - and this goes for the lefties - in Bush's position. If you were the president what you would you do? I know that the first responses from the right will be to blame the media and to say it's fine everywhere except fifteen streets in a Sadrist suburb of Baghdad but that's to be expected. I'll ignore that bullshit as being irrelevant to the question.

How long would you keep putting troops into Iraq before you decided enough was enough?

I'd pull them out when I felt that Iraq would not be dominated by Iran and other American hating factions who refuse to deal with the world community in a civilized fashion. If America was requested to leave by a recognized and elected Iraqi government prior to that occurring I would honor that request

[glockmail]

Cool......do you think we can exaggerate this one out like the Pelosi thing, or the impeach Cheny thing? Like it or not, free speech is not dead in America yet. Do you deny that what Reid said is the same as what Tokyo Rose said?

[glockmail]

.....

How long would you keep putting troops into Iraq before you decided enough was enough?

I'd escalate things along the Iranian border and suck them in completely. :poke:

[lily]

Anyone got an idea about how long it should go on before enough is enough?

Now don't go all ideological on me, you supporters of the continuing occupation, just answer the question. Put yourself - and this goes for the lefties - in Bush's position. If you were the president what you would you do? I know that the first responses from the right will be to blame the media and to say it's fine everywhere except fifteen streets in a Sadrist suburb of Baghdad but that's to be expected. I'll ignore that bullshit as being irrelevant to the question.

How long would you keep putting troops into Iraq before you decided enough was enough?

Well, the way it was explaind to us in the begining, the Iraqis were going to be standing up. It's obvious that they are not going to do this, at least in the way we hoped, which is why "benchmarks" are good. We can go there and fight for their democracy all we want, but until they actually want it, then it's useless.

....but that doesn't really answer your question. Why are our troops being sent over sooner than should be allowed and for longer than allowed? We should be letting them come home and be slowly replaced by the Iraqi troops we've spent billions to train. If not, then I still say it's time to bring them home and replace them with the thousands of mercenaries that are there already, getting paid higher salaries than our troops are and are willing to do the stuff that our troops rightly refuse to do.

[lily]

I'd pull them out when I felt that Iraq would not be dominated by Iran and other American hating factions who refuse to deal with the world community in a civilized fashion.


Iran is always going to be a threat to Iraq and the only way to stop them and let's be honest here is by giving them tons of money like we do with Israel.


If America was requested to leave by a recognized and elected Iraqi government prior to that occurring I would honor that request

The only problem with that is every time al Maliki say something he is over ruled by this administration. He'll say something one day and the next recant what he said. I don't know if the Iraqi people realize this or not, if they do then they need to demand another election and get him out.

You say the Iraq government should be the one telling us to go, I think it's the Iraqi people and they have spoken loudly.

[lily]

Do you deny that what Reid said is the same as what Tokyo Rose said?

What I have been saying is that this is just another political game being played. Just like the impeach Pelosi, impeach Bush and impeach Cheney is. None of them have any teeth and are joust saying "Look at me". All may score political points in the short run, but all look like fools when exposed for what it is.

[lily]

I'd escalate things along the Iranian border and suck them in completely. :poke:

Well.......instead of building walls around cities maybe they should be building a wall around Iran? It won't solve anything, but it sure looks good.

[glockmail]

What I have been saying is that this is just another political game being played. Just like the impeach Pelosi, impeach Bush and impeach Cheney is. None of them have any teeth and are joust saying "Look at me". All may score political points in the short run, but all look like fools when exposed for what it is. Yes, but you didn't answer the question.

[glockmail]

Well.......instead of building walls around cities maybe they should be building a wall around Iran? It won't solve anything, but it sure looks good. I'd string two rows of razor wire 400 meters apart along the border with everything in between a free fire zone.

[lily]

Yes, but you didn't answer the question.


Originally Posted by glockmail
Do you deny that what Reid said is the same as what Tokyo Rose said?


This question? Yes I deny that what Reid said is the same thing that Toyko Rose said, for not only the reasons I gave, but also for the very reason he is paid to do what the people that elected him to do. Something that Bush should realize also.

When Reid start getting paid by Iraq to say the things that he does, then your argument might have some basis.......also when you take the entire quote in context, it does change the entire little quip that the media chose to run with.

[diuretic]

This is interesting:


Bush Has Gone AWOL

By General William Odom

04/28/07 "ICH" -- -- The following is a transcript of the Democratic Radio Address delivered by Lieutenant General William E. Odom, U.S. Army (Ret.) on Saturday April 28, 2007:

“Good morning, this is Lieutenant General William E. Odom, U.S. Army, retired.

“I am not now nor have I ever been a Democrat or a Republican. Thus, I do not speak for the Democratic Party. I speak for myself, as a non-partisan retired military officer who is a former Director of the National Security Agency. I do so because Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, asked me.

“In principle, I do not favor Congressional involvement in the execution of U.S. foreign and military policy. I have seen its perverse effects in many cases. The conflict in Iraq is different. Over the past couple of years, the President has let it proceed on automatic pilot, making no corrections in the face of accumulating evidence that his strategy is failing and cannot be rescued.

“Thus, he lets the United States fly further and further into trouble, squandering its influence, money, and blood, facilitating the gains of our enemies. The Congress is the only mechanism we have to fill this vacuum in command judgment.

“To put this in a simple army metaphor, the Commander-in-Chief seems to have gone AWOL, that is ‘absent without leave.’ He neither acts nor talks as though he is in charge. Rather, he engages in tit-for-tat games.

More at the link - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17619.htm

So, a retired General has given his take on this. It's worth reading.

[Dilloduck]

This is interesting:



More at the link - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17619.htm

So, a retired General has given his take on this. It's worth reading.

Everyone in the world has a "take" on this.

[diuretic]

Everyone in the world has a "take" on this.

A taxi driver in Bangladesh is going to have an opinion but it's probably not as strong as Odom's.

[glockmail]

This question? Yes I deny that what Reid said is the same thing that Toyko Rose said, for not only the reasons I gave, but also for the very reason he is paid to do what the people that elected him to do. Something that Bush should realize also.

When Reid start getting paid by Iraq to say the things that he does, then your argument might have some basis.......also when you take the entire quote in context, it does change the entire little quip that the media chose to run with.

Bush does realize that we voted for him to keep us safe from terrorists, and hae has done that so far.

Reid should know that the press will do that, and that once done, would give aid and comfort to our enemy, and danger to our soldiers, which it has done.

[lily]

Bush does realize that we voted for him to keep us safe from terrorists, and hae has done that so far.

Well, since the topic has now changed to opinions, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. My opinion however is different. The way our borders and ports are, it's only a matter of time. It's just sheer luck that it hasn't happened again, Bush has nothing to do with it.


Reid should know that the press will do that, and that once done, would give aid and comfort to our enemy, and danger to our soldiers, which it has done.

Yes he should have known better, but I really doubt that the enemy is getting much aid and comfort from it and I highly doubt our soldiers were put in any danger because of his words. I don't know why the right thinks so lowly of our fighting men and women that a few words are going to make them crumble.

[glockmail]

Well, since the topic has now changed to opinions, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. My opinion however is different. The way our borders and ports are, it's only a matter of time. It's just sheer luck that it hasn't happened again, Bush has nothing to do with it.



Yes he should have known better, but I really doubt that the enemy is getting much aid and comfort from it and I highly doubt our soldiers were put in any danger because of his words. I don't know why the right thinks so lowly of our fighting men and women that a few words are going to make them crumble.

Bush ain't conservative; he's a republican. You have a point with the border thing. They should have been closed off years ago, two rows of razor wire 400 yards apart and a free fire zone in between. Funny I don't see liberals supporting that. But by keeping the bad guys busy in the middle east they don't have the resources to do anything over here.

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are traitors IMO. Tokyo Rose spent a lot more time and a lot more words, ultimately in vain, but she was still a traitor.

[lily]

Bush ain't conservative; he's a republican. You have a point with the border thing. They should have been closed off years ago, two rows of razor wire 400 yards apart and a free fire zone in between. Funny I don't see liberals supporting that.

That's a rather overblown and impractable thing to be supporting.


But by keeping the bad guys busy in the middle east they don't have the resources to do anything over here.

Hey.....we agree again. Would be nice to see some of that money spent over here.


Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are traitors IMO. Tokyo Rose spent a lot more time and a lot more words, ultimately in vain, but she was still a traitor.
Yes, I know that is your opinion and I can understand, just like I'm sure you can understand why I blame Rumsfailed for screwing this war up so bad that it's come to what it is now and Bush's stubborn streak for not taking him to the curb sooner, or Cheney's lying to the public every chance he gets or.....

[glockmail]

That's a rather overblown and impractable thing to be supporting.



Hey.....we agree again. Would be nice to see some of that money spent over here.


Yes, I know that is your opinion and I can understand, just like I'm sure you can understand why I blame Rumsfailed for screwing this war up so bad that it's come to what it is now and Bush's stubborn streak for not taking him to the curb sooner, or Cheney's lying to the public every chance he gets or.....

Very practical. Its been done between the Koreas since the 50's. NO ONE goes through that border.

You obviously misunderstood me.

Rummy is a hero. Cheny never lied. I know you're smarter than believing otherwise.

[lily]

Very practical. Its been done between the Koreas since the 50's. NO ONE goes through that border.

Well, I could say build it, Maliki is against building a wall around one city I can see how he would support this..........but I won't.


You obviously misunderstood me.

Rummy is a hero. Cheny never lied. I know you're smarter than believing otherwise.

Hrrruuummmmppppp.....and here I thought we could both mutually understand each other's opinions.

[glockmail]

Well, I could say build it, Maliki is against building a wall around one city I can see how he would support this..........but I won't.



Hrrruuummmmppppp.....and here I thought we could both mutually understand each other's opinions.


Show me where Cheny ever lied.

[lily]

Show me where Cheny ever lied.


I'll keep it simple.
The insurgency in Iraq is "in the last throes," Vice President Dick Cheney says, and he predicts that the fighting will end before the Bush administration leaves office.

[Gaffer]

Well, since the topic has now changed to opinions, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. My opinion however is different. The way our borders and ports are, it's only a matter of time. It's just sheer luck that it hasn't happened again, Bush has nothing to do with it.



Yes he should have known better, but I really doubt that the enemy is getting much aid and comfort from it and I highly doubt our soldiers were put in any danger because of his words. I don't know why the right thinks so lowly of our fighting men and women that a few words are going to make them crumble.

What ried said has strategic importance. al queda and iran watch very closely what our politicians say. They make their plans based on what people like ried say in the media. It inspires them to continue because they feel the American will is breaking and all they have to do is hold on. Then they hear a date for withdrawl. So all they have to do is lay low until that time and be ready to move after the troops are pulled out. ried is giving them their battle plan and a sure victory. Our soldiers can deal with stupid remarks, they hear them constantly from the libs. But when those stupid remarks encourage the enemy and help them in their over all planning for the region it's doing a lot more than just insulting the troops. It endangers them.

[Gaffer]

I'll keep it simple.
The insurgency in Iraq is "in the last throes," Vice President Dick Cheney says, and he predicts that the fighting will end before the Bush administration leaves office.

Sounds like an opinion to me.

[lily]

What ried said has strategic importance. al queda and iran watch very closely what our politicians say. They make their plans based on what people like ried say in the media. It inspires them to continue because they feel the American will is breaking and all they have to do is hold on. Then they hear a date for withdrawl. So all they have to do is lay low until that time and be ready to move after the troops are pulled out. ried is giving them their battle plan and a sure victory. Our soldiers can deal with stupid remarks, they hear them constantly from the libs. But when those stupid remarks encourage the enemy and help them in their over all planning for the region it's doing a lot more than just insulting the troops. It endangers them.

I can't believe people actually believe this.

[lily]

Sounds like an opinion to me.

Ok, I was trying to be nice....if you say it's not a lie, then he has got to be the dumbest person on the face of this earth.....and he's suppose to be in the know? Lord help us.:salute:

[Chessplayer]

What ried said has strategic importance. al queda and iran watch very closely what our politicians say. They make their plans based on what people like ried say in the media. It inspires them to continue because they feel the American will is breaking and all they have to do is hold on. Then they hear a date for withdrawl. So all they have to do is lay low until that time and be ready to move after the troops are pulled out. ried is giving them their battle plan and a sure victory. Our soldiers can deal with stupid remarks, they hear them constantly from the libs. But when those stupid remarks encourage the enemy and help them in their over all planning for the region it's doing a lot more than just insulting the troops. It endangers them.

This is what you said:
So all they have to do is lay low until that time and be ready to move after the troops are pulled out.


Then you said:
It endangers them.

Tell me, if you please, if, according to your ideas, AlQaeda is going to lay low until after our troops move out, and they know our plans, how that endangers our troops. The situation that you have describes entails their perfect safety.

[manu1959]

This is what you said:
So all they have to do is lay low until that time and be ready to move after the troops are pulled out.


Then you said:
It endangers them.

Tell me, if you please, if, according to your ideas, AlQaeda is going to lay low until after our troops move out, and they know our plans, how that endangers our troops. The situation that you have describes entails their perfect safety.

saying stupid things endangers them......telling them when you are leaving lets them know they can take it easy till then.....

i would say once you know someone has quit....you finish them off.....notice the violence is escalting in direct proportion to the stupid shit congress says....

[lily]

saying stupid things endangers them......

Well, in that case they must be in a lot of danger, because this administration has said a lot of stupid things.


telling them when you are leaving lets them know they can take it easy till then.....

In some resort or something? Do you realize just how silly this sounds? Let's them take it easy......they just move on to another city.


i would say once you know someone has quit....you finish them off.....notice the violence is escalting in direct proportion to the stupid shit congress says....

No, actually the violence has escalted since the surge.

[glockmail]

I'll keep it simple.
The insurgency in Iraq is "in the last throes," Vice President Dick Cheney says, and he predicts that the fighting will end before the Bush administration leaves office. So to be incorrect on a prediction is a lie?

[Gaffer]

This is what you said:
So all they have to do is lay low until that time and be ready to move after the troops are pulled out.


Then you said:
It endangers them.

Tell me, if you please, if, according to your ideas, AlQaeda is going to lay low until after our troops move out, and they know our plans, how that endangers our troops. The situation that you have describes entails their perfect safety.

al queda will continue with attacks to cause casualties. No all out efforts will be made however. Just the usual bombings to insure the libs will cut and run as planned. iran will continue to ship supplies and men across the border. There will be nothing done to delay the withdrawal, just killings to encourage it. As troops are pulled out of an area al queda will move in to take over.

All they have to do is monitor our news reports to know how to plan their next moves. And anyone that thinks they don't is a fool.

[Gaffer]

I can't believe people actually believe this.

If you could look at things from a military perspective you would comprehend what I'm talking about.

[lily]

So to be incorrect on a prediction is a lie?

Let me repeat what I already said:



lily said:
Ok, I was trying to be nice....if you say it's not a lie, then he has got to be the dumbest person on the face of this earth.....and he's suppose to be in the know? Lord help us.:salute:

[glockmail]

Let me repeat what I already said:

That's a BS response Lil and you know it. Plus its a dodge to my question.

[lily]

That's a BS response Lil and you know it. Plus its a dodge to my question.

I'm not sure what you mean, glock. Then explain to me how my answer is a dodge?
What you are saying is Cheney was wrong on a prediction. I say if he was that wrong, then we're in more trouble than I thought. You know it wouldn't be such a big deal...but the man is wrong most of the time.

[glockmail]

I'm not sure what you mean, glock. Then explain to me how my answer is a dodge?
What you are saying is Cheney was wrong on a prediction. I say if he was that wrong, then we're in more trouble than I thought. You know it wouldn't be such a big deal...but the man is wrong most of the time. Thanks for repaeting the BS- I'm still smelling it from the first time.

Your Dodge is from my direct question: So to be incorrect on a prediction is a lie?

Democrats have been calling BushCo liars ever since 2000, and its time to fess up with the new definition that y'all have developed.

[Yurt]

I have yet to see any proof, the war removing Saddam is "lost."

[diuretic]

I have yet to see any proof, the war removing Saddam is "lost."


1. Invasion won.
2. Occupation not won yet.
3. Occupation not going well.

[LuvRPgrl]

I'd pull them out when I felt that Iraq would not be dominated by Iran and other American hating factions who refuse to deal with the world community in a civilized fashion. If America was requested to leave by a recognized and elected Iraqi government prior to that occurring I would honor that request


EXACTLY. The time will come when enough of the IRaqis will be trained so they can defend themselves, plain and simple.

[LuvRPgrl]

This is interesting:



More at the link - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17619.htm

So, a retired General has given his take on this. It's worth reading.

Yea, the key word here is RETIRED.

[LuvRPgrl]

Ok, I was trying to be nice....if you say it's not a lie, then he has got to be the dumbest person on the face of this earth.....and he's suppose to be in the know? Lord help us.:salute:

Yea, and JFK went with the Bay Of Pigs, and got Vietnam going, he thought we could win that one.

And his namesake, TEDDY thinks he can sucessfully drink and nobody knows hes an alcoholic. Talk about dumb.

[diuretic]

Yea, the key word here is RETIRED.

And it's important because as a retired general he is not require to parrot the party line to keep his job or further his career and even though he's retired he's not suffering from amnesia, he can see what's happening and comment on it using his considerable military expertise. I respect the opinion in military matters of serving or ex military people, regardless of rank, just as long as they speak to their own area of expertise. This bloke was a General and can speak from the command position.

[lily]

Yea, and JFK went with the Bay Of Pigs, and got Vietnam going, he thought we could win that one.

And his namesake, TEDDY thinks he can sucessfully drink and nobody knows hes an alcoholic. Talk about dumb.

You are so right!

::walks away slowly as to not make any loud noise so I don't startle Luv::

[glockmail]

I have yet to see any proof, the war removing Saddam is "lost." Are you suggesting that Dingy Harry lied?

[Doniston]

EXACTLY. The time will come when enough of the IRaqis will be trained so they can defend themselves, plain and simple.

When??? in 2083???

We trained armies who won WWII in less time than these misfits have taken already.

[Kathianne]

When??? in 2083???

We trained armies who won WWII in less time than these misfits have taken already.

Which armies? American? Is that what your are referring to?

[Doniston]

Which armies? American? Is that what your are referring to? Basically American, but expanded to help and train others, Like the French, and other allies.

[Kathianne]

Basically American, but expanded to help and train others, Like the French, and other allies.

Interesting, could you send me links to US training allied soldiers, in great numbers? Not something like French resistance small groups? Thanks.

[Gaffer]

The french and polish had troops attached to the british forces of WW2 but they weren't American rained. Most were already trained soldiers. In fact most were already veterans having fought the germans before America even entered the war. Bad analogy.

[Gunny]

And it's important because as a retired general he is not require to parrot the party line to keep his job or further his career and even though he's retired he's not suffering from amnesia, he can see what's happening and comment on it using his considerable military expertise. I respect the opinion in military matters of serving or ex military people, regardless of rank, just as long as they speak to their own area of expertise. This bloke was a General and can speak from the command position.

Honestly, generals usually know least what's going on in their commands.

[diuretic]

Honestly, generals usually know least what's going on in their commands.

I suppose like any other bureaucracy they only get fed the good news....

[Gunny]

I suppose like any other bureaucracy they only get fed the good news....

Pretty much. The Colonels crap all over themselves screwing over any-and-everyone to make sure "the old man don't find out."