90 Yr old Veteran Forced to take down Flag

[chloe]

WWII vet fights homeowners group over Va. flagpole

RICHMOND, Va. — One of the nation's oldest Medal of Honor winners was back in the fight Thursday, this time against a neighborhood association that wants him to take down a front-yard flagpole.

Supporters, including a U.S. senator, have been falling in behind 90-year-old retired Army Col. Van T. Barfoot, a World War II veteran awarded the lofty Congressional honor for actions including standing up to three German tanks with a bazooka and stopping their advance.

The Sussex Square homeowners' association says the flagpole violates the neighborhood's aesthetic guidelines and ordered him to remove it by 5 p.m. Friday or face a lawsuit. The group has said Barfoot can display the flag, as long as it's in a way that conforms with association rules, such as from a pole mounted on the front of the house.

"This is not about the American flag. This is about a flagpole," the association said in a statement.

Sen. Mark R. Warner, D-Va., is among those offering to help break the impasse, Warner spokesman Kevin Hall said. Warner and the war hero became acquainted at veterans' events when Warner was Virginia's governor from 2002-06. Others are backing Barfoot on the Internet, including with a Facebook page.

Barfoot won the Medal of Honor for actions while his platoon was under German assault near Carano, Italy, in May 1944. The award citation says Barfoot, then a 2nd lieutenant, crept up alone on German machine gun nests, killing and capturing enemy troops in three of them, stopped their three-tank advance and helped two seriously wounded comrades back to safety.

He also won the Purple Heart and other decorations, and served in Korea and Vietnam before retiring from the service in 1974. The Sitter & Barfoot Veterans Care Center, a state nursing home for military retirees in Richmond, bears his name.

Barfoot's daughter, Margaret Nicholls, said her father has been moved to tears by the outpouring of support, and hopes the nine-member homeowners' board will use its discretion and let him keep the pole.

"A house-mounted pole? That is not an option," Nicholls said. "The flagpole is definitely what he's fighting for."

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20091203/US.Flag.Flap/

[namvet]

I feel for him. but HOA's do have rules about this. they can be a major pain.

[cat slave]

I absolutely cannot fathom why anyone wants to live in a community run by
a gestapo.

My sister in law and brother in law live in one of those prisons and they have
to have everything okd by the board of prison guards! Id rather be dead than
live somewhere like that, but whatever floats anyones boat....its just not for
me.

[chloe]

aww I felt sorry for him, it made me think of grandpa, the guy is 90 yrs old, he doesn't understand the home owners thing.

[Joyful HoneyBee]

It is an outrage that any HOA would take such a stance about a flagpole and go after such a highly decorated, elderly veteran. It is because of men like Barfoot that these people have the freedom to even establish a HOA in the first place.

He is an old man who has served this country, in fact the world, faithfully and honorably. They need to leave him alone.

I guarantee that these heathens would bend their association rules to build a gazebo or some other such nonsense if that suited their fancy. I've seen it done. They just need to get off their high horses and choose their battles to be only those that are truly in the best interest of the community.

[Jeff]

He ought to take it down and then Paint the Flag on his Garage door, HOA are usually just like politics, all full of shit, seem the people most active or that run the show can do what they want but make the rules for the rest

I lived in a area like that in SC, one of the rules was all animals must be on a leash, but the lady that ran it all let her dog run the neighborhood, I guess that is do as I say not as I do :eek:

Poor dog had to pay the price cause she couldn't follow the rules

[namvet]

when I bought my home I made damned sure there was no HOA. I live right on the fringe of one :laugh2:

[Jeff]

when I bought my home I made damned sure there was no HOA. I live right on the fringe of one :laugh2:

Learned my lesson also, my neighbor hood has kind of one, but no one pays attention to it, they came to me a week after me moving in and told me I couldn't park the big truck there, I offered them the door and nothing else has been said
lol

[Joyful HoneyBee]

Years ago, when I was a landscaper and worked in some of those gated communities with HOA's, it was funny to me that people would spend thousands of dollars for a new landscaping job, then have to sweat bullets while the 'grounds' committee stomped around snorting and sniffing out the job I had just completed, trying to decide if this plant or that was a violation of their rules. Was the stepping stone on the pathway too wide or too narrow? Did the stacked rock retaining wall stack up? Ridiculous!!!!!

I think living is a secure community is fine, but some of the rules make no sense at all - this issue over a flagpole being chief among them. Seems to me that people on the committee have too much time on their hands and too few real thoughts in their heads - and it makes me angry that they would pester an old man - any old man, but especially one who has contributed so much to this country. Their time would be better spent trying to figure out how many pedophiles and meth labs have slipped through the cracks and invaded their precious community.

[namvet]

Learned my lesson also, my neighbor hood has kind of one, but no one pays attention to it, they came to me a week after me moving in and told me I couldn't park the big truck there, I offered them the door and nothing else has been said
lol

and most, if not all, charge HOA fee's to boot. if you sell the house and you owe em any back dues they'll slap a lein on you.

[Jeff]

and most, if not all, charge HOA fee's to boot. if you sell the house and you owe em any back dues they'll slap a lein on you.

All this so someone can tell you how to live, LOL

I understand ya dont want to live next to a junk yard, but again I don't need a HOA to fix that for me either

[Insein]

My HOA thankfully isnt that invasive. All they do is collect fees to pay a landscaping screw to mow the common grounds and keep them clean looking. I haven't heard of anyone being told to do something or remove something from their property.

What it is though is people that can't mind their own business and people on a power trip. My sister in law lives in our community and had a problem with a neighbor that she couldn't even see from her house. The guy had a huge boat in his driveway. The HOA states not to have this stuff but I could tell it was there temporarily. She wanted the HOA to tell him to get rid of it. I told her to just leave it be because thats all the HOA needs is an excuse to exercise some power. People get to angry about things that don't matter. More people need to mind their own business.

[crin63]

What all this means is that there are not 4 other people with him on this in the HOA. All it would take is a majority of 5 to change the rules. The Association should put up a flag pole in their common area then. Its either a bunch of uppity snobs or Liberals that live in his community.

I staged a revolt and took over the Homeowners Association within 7 months of moving into my house. I now control the 4/5ths of the board.

[cat slave]

when I bought my home I made damned sure there was no HOA. I live right on the fringe of one :laugh2:


~~~~~shudder~~~~~!

[cat slave]

What all this means is that there are not 4 other people with him on this in the HOA. All it would take is a majority of 5 to change the rules. The Association should put up a flag pole in their common area then. Its either a bunch of uppity snobs or Liberals that live in his community.

I staged a revolt and took over the Homeowners Association within 7 months of moving into my house. I now control the 4/5ths of the board.


LOVE IT!!!!!!:clap::clap::clap:

[crin63]

LOVE IT!!!!!!:clap::clap::clap:

When I moved in, everyone was afraid of the Doctor that was the Treasurer and self-appointed CZAR. I went head to head with him (loudly) 3 times publicly and then took his job away from him at the annual elections. The HOA is now run by the board not the CZAR. He's not even a board member any more.

[Luna Tick]

They ought to cut the old guy some slack and let him keep is flag on his flagpole as is. Just change the rules to allow a pole like his.

[Joe Steel]

I absolutely cannot fathom why anyone wants to live in a community run by a gestapo.

For one thing, so they won't have live next to cat freaks.

[Joe Steel]

What all this means is that there are not 4 other people with him on this in the HOA. All it would take is a majority of 5 to change the rules. The Association should put up a flag pole in their common area then. Its either a bunch of uppity snobs or Liberals that live in his community.

I staged a revolt and took over the Homeowners Association within 7 months of moving into my house. I now control the 4/5ths of the board.

I'll bet you neighborhood is well on its way to becoming a slum.

[Joyful HoneyBee]

I'll bet you neighborhood is well on its way to becoming a slum.

:lame2: What a juvenile comment! :lame2:

[Joyful HoneyBee]

They ought to cut the old guy some slack and let him keep is flag on his flagpole as is. Just change the rules to allow a pole like his.

Very sensible response. I suspect they would 'just change the rules' for something stupid that has nothing to do with patriotism, so why not change the rules to display a little American spirit and patriotism.

My hope is that whoever went after this fine gentleman in the first place gets run up a flagpole, suspended by a wedgie.

[Joe Steel]

What a juvenile comment!

Why is that?

[Joyful HoneyBee]

On what premise would you make such an assumption about the impending condition of Crin's neighborhood?

To imply that it is on its way to becoming a slum is exceedingly juvenile and this type of remark has neither substance nor relevance.

[Joe Steel]

On what premise would you make such an assumption about the impending condition of Crin's neighborhood?

To imply that it is on its way to becoming a slum is exceedingly juvenile and this type of remark has neither substance nor relevance.

He said he led a revolt, took-over the association and controls the board. That implies he doesn't want to submit to restrictions on property ownership. That's what creates slums.

[Insein]

On what premise would you make such an assumption about the impending condition of Crin's neighborhood?

To imply that it is on its way to becoming a slum is exceedingly juvenile and this type of remark has neither substance nor relevance.

Dont feed the trolls.

[emmett]

Mr. Barfoot should simply be allowed to do anything he damn well pleases! The people in his community who seem to have a problem with this wonderful man's plagpole should be thankful that they are privledged enough to live in his neighborhood, they should cut his grass for him, wash his car and attend to any of his desires. I would be proud to do any of these things for this man and would be known to brag about the fact that I had stood in this man's presence.

[emmett]

I'll bet you neighborhood is well on its way to becoming a slum.


Coming from the mouse of a fellow who lives in one of the biggest slums on earth.

[Joyful HoneyBee]

He said he led a revolt, took-over the association and controls the board. That implies he doesn't want to submit to restrictions on property ownership. That's what creates slums.

Such an assumption is asinine and immature. What creates slums is sorry, worthless property owners who refuse to take care of their property and allow it to fall into decay. Revolting against unreasonable rules and regulations isn't the same thing as perpetuating neglect.

In fact, ridiculous HOA's can be compared to our increasingly oppressive government, one that I see by your posts that you wholeheartedly embrace - therefore, I would be inclined to say that you are most likely the one who promotes the creation of slums, because that's where this overtly massive and profoundly regulatory government intends to lead us all.


Dont feed the trolls.

I only wish to offer the trolls some food for thought.

[emmett]

Hey Joe....your mother is calling you!

[Joyful HoneyBee]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579338,00.html?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a4:g4:r2:c0. 000000:b0:z5


Virginia Veteran Gets Extra Week Before He Must Remove Flag or Face Consequences

A Medal of Honor recipient in a dispute over his right to fly the American flag in his yard will have another week before D-Day -- when he'll be forced to take down the Stars and Stripes or face legal action.

Ninety-year-old Col. Van T. Barfoot, a veteran of three wars, initially was given a 5 p.m. Friday deadline to dismantle his flagpole or face a legal battle over violating an order from his townhouse community association in Henrico County, Va.

John K. Honey, who is part of Barfoot's pro-bono legal team, said the homeowner association's board told him Thursday that it would push the date back a week to Friday, Dec. 11, the Richmond Times-Dispatch reported.

"There's not going to be an announcement anytime this weekend," Honey told the paper. "We can all get some breathing room."

Barfoot, who fought in World War II, the Korean War and Vietnam, was told in July that he could not put up his freestanding flagpole in his Sussex Square neighborhood — but he installed it anyway.

On Tuesday, he says, he got a letter from the homeowners' association telling him the 21-foot pole he erected in September violates the community's aesthetic guidelines.

U.S. Sen. Mark Warner, D-Va., has gotten involved in the dispute in the hopes of coming to a settlement.

"We intend to get to work right away to try to come up with a solution that’s acceptable to both Col. Barfoot and to the Homeowner’s Association," Warner's office said on his blog.

The American Legion also has joined Barfoot's fight.

"The association underestimated the fight left in this elderly veteran, and now they have to contend with the determination and persistence of Col. Barfoot's 2.5 million friends in The American Legion," National Commander Clarence E. Hill said in a statement.

But the homeowners' association defended their position, saying the issue wasn't Barfoot's right to fly the flag.
Related Stories

"This is not about the American flag. This is about a flagpole," the association said in a statement, insisting that Barfoot directly violated its board's July ruling.

"Col. Barfoot is free to display the American flag in conformity with the neighborhood rules and restrictions. We are hopeful that Col. Barfoot will comply."

Barfoot told the Times-Dispatch that he's faithfully displayed Old Glory every day since he served in the Army.

"There's never been a day in my life or a place I've lived in my life that you couldn't fly the American flag," he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/images/590618/0_61_120309_barfoot.jpg

This association just needs to gracefully withdraw their demand and start looking for a way to make up for the inconvenience they have put this man through. He is a true American patriot :salute: and they have shown themselves to be pathetic.

[SassyLady]

Such an assumption is asinine and immature. What creates slums is sorry, worthless property owners who refuse to take care of their property and allow it to fall into decay. Revolting against unreasonable rules and regulations isn't the same thing as perpetuating neglect.

In fact, ridiculous HOA's can be compared to our increasingly oppressive government, one that I see by your posts that you wholeheartedly embrace - therefore, I would be inclined to say that you are most likely the one who promotes the creation of slums, because that's where this overtly massive and profoundly regulatory government intends to lead us all.



I only wish to offer the trolls some food for thought.

:clap::clap::clap:

[SassyLady]

My husband and I have two acres in the "unincorporated" area of our county. We have a 40' flagpole in our yard that can be seen from over two miles away because it sits up on a ridge. We fly a flag day and night (and, yes, it is lit at night). If we should become part of a HOA you can bet your bottom dollar I would fight anyone who said to remove it. My husband may not be a Medar of Honor recipient, but he has over 30 years of active duty service and deserves to fly the flag of the country that he has given that many years of selfless service.

We also have a condo in another city that is part of an HOA - and we cannot wash our cars or leave our garage doors open unless we are going in and out of the garage. And yes, we cannot plant any plants or flowers in our front yard.....all of that is done by the HOA.

I read a book a few years back called The Association - it was a Stephen King kind of creepy book about an HOA..........written by Bentley Little..........highly recommended for HOA haters.

As for Mr. Barfoot - the association needs to pick it's battles......now is not the time to be going to war with a Medal of Honor recipient, especially with the power of the internet. If the names of the board members should be made public they may experience a backlash worse than being sued.

[sgtdmski]

He said he led a revolt, took-over the association and controls the board. That implies he doesn't want to submit to restrictions on property ownership. That's what creates slums.

How many times can you be totally wrong Joe? I mean truthfully does it ever bother you that so many of your opinions can be shot through with so many holes. I mean come on even a broken watch is right twice a day.

Lack of ownership is what creates slums. People who have no vested interested in their dwellings are the ones who do not go out of their way to fix the problems that arise.

While there will always be homeowners who do not take care of their property, for the most part a majority of homeowners will, because they want to see a return on their investment.

You will not that most of the slums we have seen have always been in the big cities in government owned housing complexes. Hmmm let's see, government owned meaning not private, meaning no vested interested, and the result slums!!!!!

Wow once again we see that the truth is the exact opposite of what you preach Joe.

dmk

[Joe Steel]

How many times can you be totally wrong Joe? I mean truthfully does it ever bother you that so many of your opinions can be shot through with so many holes. I mean come on even a broken watch is right twice a day.

If I'm ever wrong, it will be the first time.


Lack of ownership is what creates slums. People who have no vested interested in their dwellings are the ones who do not go out of their way to fix the problems that arise.

While there will always be homeowners who do not take care of their property, for the most part a majority of homeowners will, because they want to see a return on their investment.

That's nonsense. Many owners just don't care about the appearance of their property. Others have different ideas about attractiveness. Would you want to live next to someone who painted his house in satanic symbols? What do you think that would do to your "vested interest" in you property?


You will not that most of the slums we have seen have always been in the big cities in government owned housing complexes.

That's nonsense. Slums quite often comprise privately-owned buildings.

[Joe Steel]

This association just needs to gracefully withdraw their demand and start looking for a way to make up for the inconvenience they have put this man through. He is a true American patriot :salute: and they have shown themselves to be pathetic.

The Association should crush this guy like a bug. He has no right to make his own rules.

[Jeff]

The Association should crush this guy like a bug. He has no right to make his own rules.

Joe it must suck being you, I imagine you have been crushed like a bug all your life, that's why you sit on a internet message board spewing hate, The old man fought for the Flag and know can't fly it, are you really that dense ? or are you just a asshole ?

[namvet]

Joe it must suck being you, I imagine you have been crushed like a bug all your life, that's why you sit on a internet message board spewing hate, The old man fought for the Flag and know can't fly it, are you really that dense ? or are you just a asshole ?

Points : -163987
Reputation : zero.

he's an asshole. period

[Jeff]

Points : -163987
Reputation : zero.

he's an asshole. period

LOL, ya have a point there

[Joyful HoneyBee]

Joe Steel, it is terribly sad that you have no apparent comprehension of how to choose battles appropriately. Most reasonable people feel this way:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn7/rmsdvm95/troops.jpg

This even applies to our retired troops. Remember, thanks to this man and others like him, you live in a free country. However, thanks to people who think like you, we are losing freedom at an alarming rate.

It is the willingness to blindly submit - whether it be to the unreasonable demands of a HOA, local government, or federal government, or even church leaders - that strips each individual of creativity, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and everything else that is American. If you cannot see a correlation that's too bad, because blind and willful submission is the basis by which you give away pieces of your very essence.

[Luna Tick]

When a 90 year old war hero erects his pole in celebration and joy waving the flag, he should be encouraged, not hassled. I admire him, especially since enjoying life in this way isn't easy for most 90 year-olds. I'm so moved by him that I for one would do anything for him, anything at all. After doing so much for the country, he deserves pleasure in his final years, the pleasure of seeing the stars and stripes fly!

I wonder if it's possible for me to meet and thank him in person. He's a true patriot and is a big, big part of what has made this country great.

[Hagbard Celine]

When a 90 year old war hero erects his pole...

I don't want to know anything about it. :eek:

[chloe]

When a 90 year old war hero erects his pole in celebration and joy waving the flag, he should be encouraged, not hassled. I admire him, especially since enjoying life in this way isn't easy for most 90 year-olds. I'm so moved by him that I for one would do anything for him, anything at all. After doing so much for the country, he deserves pleasure in his final years, the pleasure of seeing the stars and stripes fly!

I wonder if it's possible for me to meet and thank him in person. He's a true patriot and is a big, big part of what has made this country great.

Indeed I for one think all women should stand at attention when he raises his flag for a salute. It's a shame that someone with such a strong hard sounding name like Joe Steele wants to deflate this hero's flagpole I'm sensing joe steele has rank envy from such a decorated soldier.

[Luna Tick]

Indeed I for one think all women should stand at attention when he raises his flag for a salute. It's a shame that someone with such a strong hard sounding name like Joe Steele wants to deflate this hero's flagpole I'm sensing joe steele has rank envy from such a decorated soldier.

I agree, chloe. I can't believe the home owner's association is so uptight over a pole. They could learn a thing or two from this elderly gent if they would just accept his pole. Do they think poles are ugly and clutter up the neighborhood or something? Poles are beautiful and can be enjoyed by everyone in the neighborhood. They ought to thank him in each and every way they can for his service to the country and stand and salute him.

[chloe]

I agree, chloe. I can't believe the home owner's association is so uptight over a pole. They could learn a thing or two from this elderly gent if they would just accept his pole. Do they think poles are ugly and clutter up the neighborhood or something? Poles are beautiful and can be enjoyed by everyone in the neighborhood. They ought to thank him in each and every way they can for his service to the country and stand and salute him.

maybe if some of the home owners tried their flags on a pole they would understand why just hanging a flag off some mount just doesn't have the full effect of patriotism. :coffee: Homeowners Association should be more accepting.

[Hagbard Celine]

The Association should crush this guy like a bug. He has no right to make his own rules.

I think an allowance can be made for a WWII honor medal winner.

[chloe]

I don't want to know anything about it. :eek:

:laugh2:

[emmett]

Joe, with only a few days left in the year you are leading the race to recieve DP's "Asshole of the Year Award". Congradulations!

[Joe Steel]

Joe it must suck being you, I imagine you have been crushed like a bug all your life, that's why you sit on a internet message board spewing hate, The old man fought for the Flag and know can't fly it, are you really that dense ? or are you just a asshole ?

Try again, dumbass.

No one is saying he can't fly the flag. The HOA told him he couldn't erect a flagpole without permission. He ignored them. Now he must suffer the consequences.

[Joe Steel]

Joe Steel, it is terribly sad that you have no apparent comprehension of how to choose battles appropriately. Most reasonable people feel this way:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn7/rmsdvm95/troops.jpg

This even applies to our retired troops. Remember, thanks to this man and others like him, you live in a free country. However, thanks to people who think like you, we are losing freedom at an alarming rate.

It is the willingness to blindly submit - whether it be to the unreasonable demands of a HOA, local government, or federal government, or even church leaders - that strips each individual of creativity, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and everything else that is American. If you cannot see a correlation that's too bad, because blind and willful submission is the basis by which you give away pieces of your very essence.


Van Barfoot signed a contract. Now he's reneging. That's dishonorable. He's dishonoring the flag and the service of everyone who fought to protect our nation of laws.

[Joe Steel]

I think an allowance can be made for a WWII honor medal winner.

That's an interesting idea and I considered it, too. But Van Barfoot's not going to live forever. What about the next person who owns the house? Will he be required to remove the flagpole or could he keep it because it's already there?

[Luna Tick]

Try again, dumbass.

No one is saying he can't fly the flag. The HOA told him he couldn't erect a flagpole without permission. He ignored them. Now he must suffer the consequences.

Wow, the country's really going downhill when an HOA somehow has the right to tell a man when he can erect his pole. We would never tolerate the government interfering in such a thing and we shouldn't let this HOA get away with it either. What you do with your pole on your own private property should remain a personal choice. Shame on that HOA.

I don't have a pole, but if I had one I would want the freedom to use it as I please.

[chloe]

Wow, the country's really going downhill when an HOA somehow has the right to tell a man when he can erect his pole. We would never tolerate the government interfering in such a thing and we shouldn't let this HOA get away with it either. What you do with your pole on your own private property should remain a personal choice. Shame on that HOA.

I don't have a pole, but if I had one I would want the freedom to use it as I please.

The next thing you know the HOA man will be wanting to collect some money off the poor ole chap some sort of fee everytime he raises his flag in front of neighbors. :salute:, I noticed mr steele is from missouri the "show me" state, but he's not interested in showing flags being raised on a pole. Maybe he should move to Oregon, the beaver state or something.....

[Luna Tick]

The next thing you know the HOA man will be wanting to collect some money off the poor ole chap some sort of fee everytime he raises his flag in front of neighbors. :salute:, I noticed mr steele is from missouri the "show me" state, but he's not interested in showing flags being raised on a pole. Maybe he should move to Oregon, the beaver state or something.....

Maybe our WW II war hero would be better appreciated in the beaver state. People should show him lots and lots of respect, especially since it's not easy for a 90 year-old to show such fortitude.

[HogTrash]

In a HogTrash America anyone who had a problem with the American Flag would be tried for treason and immediately taken outside and hanged from a flagpole untill dead-dead-dead-dead-dead!

BUT

It appears the American Flag is not the problem, only the flag pole which I would assume was a restriction the residents were aware of and signed a contract to abide by before they moved in.

I would expect Colonel Barfoot, as an officer and a gentleman to be a man of his word and abide by the agreement he made with the Home Owners Association when moving to this neighborhood.

I ackowledge his service to this country and recognize his courage and sacrifice to earn this nations highest honor but he should be aware that he must honor the rules the same as the rest of us.

[SassyLady]

In a HogTrash America anyone who had a problem with the American Flag would be tried for treason and immediately taken outside and hanged from a flagpole untill dead-dead-dead-dead-dead!

BUT

It appears the American Flag is not the problem, only the flag pole which I would assume was a restriction the residents were aware of and signed a contract to abide by before they moved in.

I would expect Colonel Barfoot, as an officer and a gentleman to be a man of his word and abide by the agreement he made with the Home Owners Association when moving to this neighborhood.

I ackowledge his service to this country and recognize his courage and sacrifice to earn this nations highest honor but he should be aware that he must honor the rules the same as the rest of us.


HogTrash - :slap::slap:

not to offend you but the definition of leadership is knowing when to do the right thing, as opposed to doing things right (rules). Sometimes rules are just wrong and the right thing is to break them. In this instance I disagree with you and feel that this rule needs to be broken. And, if I were 90 and as decorated as this man is, and because I put my life on the line as many times as he has, then screw the association and their rules. I think he is probably ok with taking risks!

Sorry............every now and then this Grammy gets her panties in a bunch and I absolutely abhor people who pick on heroes and our flag and the association deserves all the bad publicity it will get. And, yes, they will probably win in a court of law because of the rules/contract.......but that does not make them right.

There was a time when women were not allowed to vote, according to law, and I'm thankful there were women who pushed against that law/rule and eventually overturned it. Who knows, perhaps this is the first step toward getting Americans to really respect the flag more than their stupid rules. :salute:


OK - I think I'm finished with my rant. :coffee:

[SassyLady]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/08/AR2009120800092.html

White House support for Van Barfoot

Obama spokesman: 'Silly' not to allow Va. flagpole


The Associated Press
Tuesday, December 8, 2009; 12:46 AM

WASHINGTON -- White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Monday that it is "silly" to think that a 90-year-old Medal of Honor winner is being asked to remove a flagpole from his front yard.

Retired Army Col. Van T. Barfoot, a World War II veteran, is fighting to keep the 21-foot pole at his suburban Richmond home. His homeowners association said the pole violates the neighborhood's aesthetic guidelines. It pushed back a deadline to remove it to Friday.

Gibbs said during a briefing that he hasn't spoken directly to President Barack Obama about the flap. But he said "the president believes - I think all of us believe - that the very least we can do is show our gratitude and thanks to somebody that served our country so admirably."

He went on to say that "it's silly to ... think that somebody that's done that can't have a flagpole and ... show the proper respect and appreciation that any flag deserves by flying that in their neighborhood."

[Jeff]

Try again, dumbass.

No one is saying he can't fly the flag. The HOA told him he couldn't erect a flagpole without permission. He ignored them. Now he must suffer the consequences.

As I said Joe it must really suck being you, you said he should be crushed like a bug, that is what I am referring to, personally I think a war hero like this man ought to be able to fly the flag anyway he wishes, again he fought for it

But then ya get some punk from the slums talking about he should be crushed like a bug, I have a feelings at 90 he would and could crush you like a bug, you are slime slow joe, suffer the consequences means being crushed like a bug, you are a typical liberal Dumbass that needs to be crushed like a Bug, but as I stated before I am sure you have had a lifetime of that

[Joe Steel]

As I said Joe it must really suck being you, you said he should be crushed like a bug, that is what I am referring to, personally I think a war hero like this man ought to be able to fly the flag anyway he wishes, again he fought for it

But then ya get some punk from the slums talking about he should be crushed like a bug, I have a feelings at 90 he would and could crush you like a bug, you are slime slow joe, suffer the consequences means being crushed like a bug, you are a typical liberal Dumbass that needs to be crushed like a Bug, but as I stated before I am sure you have had a lifetime of that

What are you babbling about? You're making even less sense than usual.

[Joe Steel]

HogTrash

not to offend you but the definition of leadership is knowing when to do the right thing, as opposed to doing things right (rules). Sometimes rules are just wrong and the right thing is to break them. In this instance I disagree with you and feel that this rule needs to be broken. And, if I were 90 and as decorated as this man is, and because I put my life on the line as many times as he has, then screw the association and their rules. I think he is probably ok with taking risks!

What if he wanted to shoot you? Do you think he should just go ahead and shoot you? Do you think rules against shooting you "need to be broken?" He's decorated, you know.

[SassyLady]

What if he wanted to shoot you? Do you think he should just go ahead and shoot you? Do you think rules against shooting you "need to be broken?" He's decorated, you know.

As I said before Joe ........leadership (of which you seem to be clueless) is about knowing which rules to break. I doubt that you are even a manager............managers know that they do things the right way (follow rules) and a leader does the right thing (taking risks and knowing when to break the rules). These association people are just managers and don't know how to do the right thing because they are so busy doing things right (forcing the rules).

Shooting an innocent person - breaking this rule is bad (even a moron knows this) even if you are a decorated vet. :slap::slap:

Keeping a decorated hero from putting up a 23' flagpole to fly the flag he risked his life for more than once - breaking this rule is good (and even the morons in the WH know this is a bad rule).

You need to pick better ammunition for your argument. :coffee:

[HogTrash]

Sometimes rules are just wrong and the right thing is to break them. In this instance I disagree with you and feel that this rule needs to be broken. And, if I were 90 and as decorated as this man is, and because I put my life on the line as many times as he has, then screw the association and their rules.My point is Col. Barfoot knew of these restrictions prior to moving into this neighborhood and agreed by either his word or contract to abide by these restrictions.

Mr Barfoot comes from a time when a man was considered only as good as his word and he should abide by his word by honoring the restriction that he agreed too.

If he believes the restrictions to be unfair or wrong for whatever reason he should take measures to alter or ommit them but untill then he must abide by his word.


There was a time when women were not allowed to vote, according to law, and I'm thankful there were women who pushed against that law/rule and eventually overturned it. Who knows, perhaps this is the first step toward getting Americans to really respect the flag more than their stupid rules. :salute:I agree, there are times that rules and laws are just flat out wrong for what ever reason, and must be challenged.

Women made no agreement with men or government to be omitted from enfranchisement and the democratic process and had every right to demand equality.

The people who made these archaic rules were not necessarilly evil or even bad, they were simply of a different time and mentality and these laws were short lived.

[SassyLady]

VICTORY!!!

Homeowners' Association Drops Action Against Col. Barfoot


The Office of Senator Mark Warner has released the following statement on behalf of the Sussex Square Homeowners Association Board:

"The Sussex Square Homeowners Association Board has agreed to withdraw legal action previously announced for Friday, December 11, 2009 at 5:00pm against Colonel Van T. Barfoot regarding the flagpole located on his property."

Update: In response to the controversy involving 90-year old Medal of Honor recipient Col. Van Barfoot and the Sussex Square Homeowners' Association, Virginia Congressman Eric Cantor (R-VA) and Rep. Howard P. "Buck" McKeon (R-CA) have introduced a resolution that would allow Congressional Medal of Honor recipients to display the American flag on their property at all times. The following is the official release:

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Rep. Howard P. "Buck" McKeon (R-CA) and Republican Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA) introduced a resolution, H. Res. 952, allowing Congressional Medal of Honor recipients to properly display the United States flag on their property at all times.

Recent media reports, including from the Mark Levin Show, uncovered a 90 year old Medal of Honor recipient, Col. Van T. Barfoot, who was ordered by his homeowner association last week to remove a flagpole from his yard, where he raises the American flag faithfully each morning.

"I was appalled to learn that one of our decorated Congressional Medal of Honor veterans was being prevented from proudly displaying the Flag of the United States of America in an honorable way," said Rep. McKeon. "This reminds me of that famous quote by George Washington: ‘The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, shall be directly proportional as to how they perceive the Veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their country.' Our service men and women - especially those living with honors and distinction- should be allowed to fly the flag that represents the very freedoms they fought so hard to protect."

"It's a sad day when a veteran of three wars is told he cannot fly the American flag on a pole outside of his home," said Republican Whip Cantor. "Col. Barfoot made countless sacrifices, wore our country's uniform with honor, and has earned the right to proudly display the American flag. I thank Col. Barfoot for his service and support his patriotism and efforts, as well as those here in the House, to allow him to fly his flag."

http://www.wric.com/Global/story.asp?S=11643759

[Joe Steel]

As I said before Joe ........leadership (of which you seem to be clueless) is about knowing which rules to break. I doubt that you are even a manager............managers know that they do things the right way (follow rules) and a leader does the right thing (taking risks and knowing when to break the rules). These association people are just managers and don't know how to do the right thing because they are so busy doing things right (forcing the rules).

Shooting an innocent person - breaking this rule is bad (even a moron knows this) even if you are a decorated vet.

Keeping a decorated hero from putting up a 23' flagpole to fly the flag he risked his life for more than once - breaking this rule is good (and even the morons in the WH know this is a bad rule).

You need to pick better ammunition for your argument.

That's just silly. You need a real world education.

Sussex Square (the development) has written covenants, conditions and restrictions imposed by contract on the property owners. The trustees have a fiduciary responsibility to the property owners to enforce the CC&Rs. They don't get to choose which rules they will enforce, at least not without risking a suit by a property owner who feels he will lose value because they let some prima donna violate the restrictions.

You should try to learn something. You won't embarass yourself as you just did.

[jimnyc]

That's just silly. You need a real world education.

Sussex Square (the development) has written covenants, conditions and restrictions imposed by contract on the property owners. The trustees have a fiduciary responsibility to the property owners to enforce the CC&Rs. They don't get to choose which rules they will enforce, at least not without risking a suit by a property owner who feels he will lose value because they let some prima donna violate the restrictions.

You should try to learn something. You won't embarass yourself as you just did.

Well, now they CHOSE which they would enforce, and gave the HERO his right to fly his flag from his flagpole. I'll bet you ANYTHING that not a single lawsuit is filed as a result of his actions. Put your money where your mouth is, Joe, how much you want to place on it? Are you too embarrassed?

Also, trying to compare HOA violations to "shooting someone" is one of the lamest debates I've ever seen you use. Well, next to your infamous "rhetorical convenience" excuse when you were devoured over your obsession with Michael Moore.

[Nukeman]

That's just silly. You need a real world education.

Sussex Square (the development) has written covenants, conditions and restrictions imposed by contract on the property owners. The trustees have a fiduciary responsibility to the property owners to enforce the CC&Rs. They don't get to choose which rules they will enforce, at least not without risking a suit by a property owner who feels he will lose value because they let some prima donna violate the restrictions.

You should try to learn something. You won't embarass yourself as you just did.
Tell me joe with your infinite wisdom, how much will the property values decline with the addition of a flag pole?

You might have a valid argument if said flag pole was in disrepair or uneven and in general an eyesore.

how many flag poles have you gazed upon in disgust? How many times have yo looked at the American flag and thought that should not be flying? Tell us Joe please tell us!!!!!!!:poke:

[chloe]

Tell me joe with your infinite wisdom, how much will the property values decline with the addition of a flag pole?

You might have a valid argument if said flag pole was in disrepair or uneven and in general an eyesore.

how many flag poles have you gazed upon in disgust? How many times have yo looked at the American flag and thought that should not be flying? Tell us Joe please tell us!!!!!!!:poke:

Joe has flag pole envy.....I suspect his flagpole is in disrepair....or an eyesore:eek:

[HogTrash]

Joe has flag pole envy.....I suspect his flagpole is in disrepair....or an eyesore:eek:Or maybe his wife made a comment about his neighbors flagpole being superior to his?

[chloe]

Or maybe his wife made a comment about his neighbors flagpole being superior to his?

:laugh2:

[SassyLady]

That's just silly. You need a real world education.

Sussex Square (the development) has written covenants, conditions and restrictions imposed by contract on the property owners. The trustees have a fiduciary responsibility to the property owners to enforce the CC&Rs. They don't get to choose which rules they will enforce, at least not without risking a suit by a property owner who feels he will lose value because they let some prima donna violate the restrictions.

You should try to learn something. You won't embarass yourself as you just did.

Perhaps you haven't read my previous emails Joe - I have two properties - one is in an unincorporated area of my county and I have a 40' flagpole and no one has any right to dictate what I do with it.

My other property is covered under a HOA...........so I do have real world experience with this very issue. You quote some paragraphs that you picked up on the internet and attempt to convince us that you have "real world" experience?! :lol:

And I won't demean the word "silly" by referencing it to you.............anyone who would refer to a MOH recipient as a Prima Donna is just not worth the time to educate.:laugh2:

[Joyful HoneyBee]

I am glad that Mr. Barfoot has won this victory, it isn't just his victory, but one for us all.

Here's the rub that I've been pondering....there has been some talk about Mr. Barfoot not honoring the rules of his HOA, but has anyone considered the fact that most HOA's make people sign an agreement that has vague references to matters such as this? Does anyone here believe that the HOA agreement specifically spelled out the terms "no one can put a flagpole in their yard"? I doubt that very seriously.

Also, most HOA's have this nasty little fine print in their agreements that states that the board may change the rules from time to time as it sees fit. Who here can say that the rule about aesthetics wasn't plugged in later as one of those 'time to time' changes? See.....we just don't know that.

As for Joe Steel, I've read a lot of your posts, but I find your stuff to be so juvenile and combative without cause that your score makes perfectly good sense to me. I truly couldn't possibly be less interested in your opinions and thoughts. I figure either life has slapped you around too much, or not quite enough yet; but, your arguments conjure up images in my mind of a bratty, disheveled, snotty nosed kid flailing in the toy aisle at the local department store because you can't have that toy you want so badly. Actually, that's how I see a lot of libs, though, so don't get the idea I'm just picking on you.

[SassyLady]

As for Joe Steel, I've read a lot of your posts, but I find your stuff to be so juvenile and combative without cause that your score makes perfectly good sense to me. I truly couldn't possibly be less interested in your opinions and thoughts. I figure either life has slapped you around too much, or not quite enough yet; but, your arguments conjure up images in my mind of a bratty, disheveled, snotty nosed kid flailing in the toy aisle at the local department store because you can't have that toy you want so badly. Actually, that's how I see a lot of libs, though, so don't get the idea I'm just picking on you.

:clap::clap:

[Kathianne]

I am glad that Mr. Barfoot has won this victory, it isn't just his victory, but one for us all.

Here's the rub that I've been pondering....there has been some talk about Mr. Barfoot not honoring the rules of his HOA, but has anyone considered the fact that most HOA's make people sign an agreement that has vague references to matters such as this? Does anyone here believe that the HOA agreement specifically spelled out the terms "no one can put a flagpole in their yard"? I doubt that very seriously.

Also, most HOA's have this nasty little fine print in their agreements that states that the board may change the rules from time to time as it sees fit. Who here can say that the rule about aesthetics wasn't plugged in later as one of those 'time to time' changes? See.....we just don't know that.

As for Joe Steel, I've read a lot of your posts, but I find your stuff to be so juvenile and combative without cause that your score makes perfectly good sense to me. I truly couldn't possibly be less interested in your opinions and thoughts. I figure either life has slapped you around too much, or not quite enough yet; but, your arguments conjure up images in my mind of a bratty, disheveled, snotty nosed kid flailing in the toy aisle at the local department store because you can't have that toy you want so badly. Actually, that's how I see a lot of libs, though, so don't get the idea I'm just picking on you.

Hey, Honeybee. I can't begin to deal with Joe Steel, as he's an idiot of first order.

As for HOA's, they differ. If I was buying a single family home, I'd never buy into. I live in a town home and it's part and parcel of such. The only onerous factoid not clear in bylaws was garbage cans. Can't put them out until 6pm the night before pick up. They cannot be on patio, front or rear, meaning they must be 'garaged.' Fine in winter, Chicago area summers? Egads!

No, the flagpole would be a no go here either. However, that is in BOLD, CAPITALIZED PRINT, underlined in by laws. Also the fact that one may fly the flag off a pole mounted on garage or entry way.

No possibility of confusion.

[SassyLady]

Hey, Honeybee. I can't begin to deal with Joe Steel, as he's an idiot of first order.

As for HOA's, they differ. If I was buying a single family home, I'd never buy into. I live in a town home and it's part and parcel of such. The only onerous factoid not clear in bylaws was garbage cans. Can't put them out until 6pm the night before pick up. They cannot be on patio, front or rear, meaning they must be 'garaged.' Fine in winter, Chicago area summers? Egads!

No, the flagpole would be a no go here either. However, that is in BOLD, CAPITALIZED PRINT, underlined in by laws. Also the fact that one may fly the flag off a pole mounted on garage or entry way.

No possibility of confusion.

Hey Kathianne,

In our community the garbage cans are kept at the end of the units in individual enclosures......and it's at the opposite end of our unit..........and we are not allowed to leave our garage doors open unless we are entering/leaving/unloading, etc. So, I always feel that when I'm taking out the garbage I will probably get cited because I have to open the garage to take out the trash and I'm walking down the street and back and my garage door is open. :poke: :slap:

[Joyful HoneyBee]

I did a huge landscaping job in a HOA community years ago where I constantly had committee members breathing down my neck. One thing I noted right away was that the homeowner I was working for had not put drains at the end of his downspouts and his roof was massive. I went in and asked why his grading contractor had not put drains in the ground, to which he replied that the guy told him he could use splash blocks....yeah right. I sternly guided him in the right direction (mainly because I didn't want to dig up my landscaping work later to retrofit drains.) My crew pulled up in the truck with the materials to install the drain lines about five minutes before the HOA guy showed up with his clipboard to show my customer he had to have them. My attention to the detail earned me my customers profound gratitude, in addition to the extra bucks, and a bonus. Whew...talk about appeasing the HOA just in the nick of time.

[Joe Steel]

Well, now they CHOSE which they would enforce, and gave the HERO his right to fly his flag from his flagpole. I'll bet you ANYTHING that not a single lawsuit is filed as a result of his actions. Put your money where your mouth is, Joe, how much you want to place on it? Are you too embarrassed?

I have no way of knowing how many, if any, will be filed. I'm confident, however, that a lawyer with a few hours to spare could crush Van Barfoot.


Also, trying to compare HOA violations to "shooting someone" is one of the lamest debates I've ever seen you use. Well, next to your infamous "rhetorical convenience" excuse when you were devoured over your obsession with Michael Moore.

You were obsessed with Moore. I merely was trying to disabuse you of your misconceptions.

[Joe Steel]

Perhaps you haven't read my previous emails Joe - I have two properties - one is in an unincorporated area of my county and I have a 40' flagpole and no one has any right to dictate what I do with it.

My other property is covered under a HOA...........so I do have real world experience with this very issue. You quote some paragraphs that you picked up on the internet and attempt to convince us that you have "real world" experience?! :lol:

And I won't demean the word "silly" by referencing it to you.............anyone who would refer to a MOH recipient as a Prima Donna is just not worth the time to educate.:laugh2:

I read the previous posting.

You should check the deed for the lot in the unincorporated part of the county. It could be subject to deed restrictions. Your deed should tell you.

Here's a brief primer on deed restrictions. Deed restrictions are placed on real property by the original developer. They may "run with the land" which means they can last forever regardless of who owns the lot and how many times it changes ownership. Anyone who owns a lot in a subdvision covered by deed restrictions can enforce them against any other person who owns a lot in the subdivision. Should your lot be part of a subdivision of more than one lot and should it have a deed restriction against flagpoles, anyone who owns a lot in the subdivision could force you to remove your flagpole.

Now you have a bit more education.

[Joe Steel]

Here's the rub that I've been pondering....there has been some talk about Mr. Barfoot not honoring the rules of his HOA, but has anyone considered the fact that most HOA's make people sign an agreement that has vague references to matters such as this? Does anyone here believe that the HOA agreement specifically spelled out the terms "no one can put a flagpole in their yard"? I doubt that very seriously.

Deed restrictions are included the the Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions filed with the County. Anyone who buys a lot without checking the deed has no right to complain about the restrictions.


As for Joe Steel, I've read a lot of your posts, but I find your stuff to be so juvenile and combative without cause that your score makes perfectly good sense to me. I truly couldn't possibly be less interested in your opinions and thoughts. I figure either life has slapped you around too much, or not quite enough yet; but, your arguments conjure up images in my mind of a bratty, disheveled, snotty nosed kid flailing in the toy aisle at the local department store because you can't have that toy you want so badly. Actually, that's how I see a lot of libs, though, so don't get the idea I'm just picking on you.

Your judgement is severely flawed.

[Jeff]

What are you babbling about? You're making even less sense than usual.

To you I am sure I am, when ya have no defense attack, the liberal way, as I stated you said the man should be crushed like a bug for not following HOA rules, I just simply stated I felt he could and many others have crushed your sorry ass like a bug !!!

[Joe Steel]

To you I am sure I am...

...and to everyone else who lives in a reality-based world.



...many others have crushed your sorry ass like a bug !!!

When did this happen?

[Jeff]

...and to everyone else who lives in a reality-based world.

Says you


When did this happen?

As I stated I am sure all your life, guys like you spew shit on the internet cause your not man enough to stand up and talk face to face with anyone, if you did you wouldn't be filled with such hatred, nice talking to ya dumb ass

[SassyLady]

I read the previous posting.

You should check the deed for the lot in the unincorporated part of the county. It could be subject to deed restrictions. Your deed should tell you.

Here's a brief primer on deed restrictions. Deed restrictions are placed on real property by the original developer. They may "run with the land" which means they can last forever regardless of who owns the lot and how many times it changes ownership. Anyone who owns a lot in a subdvision covered by deed restrictions can enforce them against any other person who owns a lot in the subdivision. Should your lot be part of a subdivision of more than one lot and should it have a deed restriction against flagpoles, anyone who owns a lot in the subdivision could force you to remove your flagpole.

Now you have a bit more education.

Joe - I don't own a "lot" in a subdivision at my primary home (only my second home is in an association)..........I own acres of property in the unincorporated area ..... that means out in the boonies ......... where we are still allowed to shoot things that come on our property without our permission, or just because we want to target practice. I know this is hard for someone like yourself to understand, but I have no deed restrictions....because I am the developer. :dance:

So, just to remind you..........I have a 40' flagpole that no one can tell me to remove. :slap:

Oh..........and I can play music as loud as I want all night long..........no noise ordinances out here either. And, I can paint my house any color I want. Oh, and I can put up a fence as high as I want around my property. I have my own well, septic, propane..........the only thing I don't generate for myself at this time is electricity, and that might change soon with the solar panels we are planning to install. Gosh, I'm loving this place more and more because of the freedoms I have regarding my own property.

No you have a bit more education about the difference between HOA's, developers, subdivisions, unincorporated land, etc.

[jimnyc]

I have no way of knowing how many, if any, will be filed. I'm confident, however, that a lawyer with a few hours to spare could crush Van Barfoot.

None will be filed. No lawyer will touch this case. Only YOU think in such ways when addressing a war hero. Think otherwise? Then take my bet, it's that simple. This man will receive ZERO backlash for going against the HOA, from other homeowners, lawyers or anyone else you can think of.

Also, a judge has the right to now decide with our hero, as the HOA gave him permission. So good luck for your "theoretical" attorney who could crush him.

And lastly, he could easily demand a jury of his peers. Good luck finding 12 more assholes like you to sit over the case. Fact is, a jury would let him walk unfazed.


You were obsessed with Moore. I merely was trying to disabuse you of your misconceptions.

Me obsessed? If you call pointing out the fat blob of shits lies, and PROVING that he stated he was a documentary maker, when you stated he never said that, and I proved you wrong with the own "mans" words - then I'm guilty as charged.

[Mr. P]

None will be filed. No lawyer will touch this case. .

And lastly, he could easily demand a jury of his peers. Good luck finding 12 more assholes like you to sit over the case. Fact is, a jury would let him walk unfazed.

.

You're right..NO lawyer would have touched this. Why? Because the guy had a contract.

Now, you and others here will be shocked, but if I were on this jury I'd side with the HOA (AND I HATE HOAs!)

Strip away the mans age and background and what do you have? A contract he signed when he bought the home. END OF STORY.

[Joe Steel]

Joe - I don't own a "lot" in a subdivision at my primary home (only my second home is in an association)..........I own acres of property in the unincorporated area ..... that means out in the boonies .........

Here's some more education for you.

"Unincorporated" does not mean "out in the boonies." It just means "not a municipal corporation." I live in an unincorporated part of my county and it's in the heart of the suburbs with franchise restaurants, strip malls, office buildings and housing developments sitting side-by-side but not within the limits of any city, town or village.

And you could own a lot in a subdivision. When a real estate developer parcels out a large piece of land into lots he is "subdividing" it. These lots need not be the typical quarter acre lots of tract housing. They could one or more acres. Check your deed. It might name the subdivision.

[jimnyc]

You're right..NO lawyer would have touched this. Why? Because the guy had a contract.

Now, you and others here will be shocked, but if I were on this jury I'd side with the HOA (AND I HATE HOAs!)

Strip away the mans age and background and what do you have? A contract he signed when he bought the home. END OF STORY.

While that may be true...

First off, I'd like to read the wording of the "contract" and see it implicitly deny the use of a flagpole. Many HOA's leave portions ambiguous so that they can enforce to their choosing.

Secondly, a contract doesn't mean it could never reach the courts. He could just as easily fight the contract in court. Not all contracts are 100% legally binding, and the court has the right to deem portions unenforceable.

But IF he refused to take it down, and the HOA also stuck to their ground - it would in fact have taken intervention from the courts to go any further. He then could have asked for a jury of his peers instead of a decision by a judge. The HOA cannot just boot him out (eviction) or go onto his property and remove things without a court order.

[SassyLady]

Here's some more education for you.

"Unincorporated" does not mean "out in the boonies." It just means "not a municipal corporation." I live in an unincorporated part of my county and it's in the heart of the suburbs with franchise restaurants, strip malls, office buildings and housing developments sitting side-by-side but not within the limits of any city, town or village.

And you could own a lot in a subdivision. When a real estate developer parcels out a large piece of land into lots he is "subdividing" it. These lots need not be the typical quarter acre lots of tract housing. They could one or more acres. Check your deed. It might name the subdivision.

Joe - you still don't get it. I do not live in a subdivision. Do you know that I have to have my own water tank with a fire hydrant on it so that if I do have a fire the fire trucks can hook into it. Now.....do you really think I bought this property from a developer?

Why do you keep insisting that my unincorporated area is anything like yours? I have told you explicitly what type of property I own and you continue to try and fit it into the same parameters that you find yourself in. Please, open your mind to the fact that I do live in the boonies and it just so happens to be unincorporated (doesn't mean that unincorporated is always in the boonies). No strip malls, no restaurants, no office buildings...........just a lot of vineyards, horse and dairy farms, orchards, etc.

I did not buy my property from a developer. Why must you think all property has at one time or another been owned by a developer. That just shows your ignorance. My property has always been privately owned just as the few hundred properties around me have always been privately owned (with a lot of them being handed down from generation to generation). They are varying sizes....I won't tell you how big mine is, but the one across the street is 35 acres and the one behind that is over 100 acres and the one behind me is only 12 acres. No developer came in here and parceled out the land and put deed restrictions on it.

The property next door to me has been in their family for over 100 years...........I wonder what type of deed restrictions the developer put on that piece.

Unincorporated where I live means - we have no sidewalks, street lights, gutter/drainage system, no fire hydrants, no bus stops, no deliveries from pizza joints, no noise ordinances, the right to shoot the neighbors dog if it comes on my property (and other varmits if I so choose), no restrictions on the type of fence I want to put up, etc., and more importantly no one to tell me that I couldn't put up a 40' flag pole!!! (In fact, we had a flag pole raising party at our annual Memorial Day party and all the neighbors came and helped). So, as you can see, this area has a lot less restrictions than some unincorporated areas.

Joe - I know that you THINK you know everything, because you read about it somewhere on the internet or in a book, but why you continue to argue the point with someone who is actually living the reality is beyond me.

[SassyLady]

Not all contracts are 100% legally binding, and the court has the right to deem portions unenforceable.


Correct Jim,

If all contracts were 100% legally binding, there would be no need for so many lawyers.

:cheers2:

[Joe Steel]

Joe - I know that you THINK you know everything, because you read about it somewhere on the internet or in a book, but why you continue to argue the point with someone who is actually living the reality is beyond me.

Everything you say about your property may be true; it certainly could be. The problem is, you're extrapolating your personal experiences into generalities which are wrong; e.g. "unincorporated" does not mean "out in the boonies" as you earlier insisted. I'm just correcting your errors and educating you. Ignorance is a common problem among conservatives and I like to help when I can.

[Kathianne]

Everything you say about your property may be true; it certainly could be. The problem is, you're extrapolating your personal experiences into generalities which are wrong; e.g. "unincorporated" does not mean "out in the boonies" as you earlier insisted. I'm just correcting your errors and educating you. Ignorance is a common problem among conservatives and I like to help when I can.

That's NOT what she did, it's what YOU DO. That was how she was helping you.

[Gaffer]

You all realize that joe is a fat kid that lives in his mothers basement and eats pizza and candy bars, right? His goal in life is to be a gulag commander. And he actually imagines that he wins arguments here on this board.

[Kathianne]

and good news, he gets to keep it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/09/AR2009120904393.html


War hero wins battle over flagpole
By Christian Davenport
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 10, 2009

...By the time the flagpole battle ended this week, after threats of litigation, accusations of anti-Americanism and indignation that spilled far beyond the development's boundaries to become fodder for a nation of talking heads and blogging pundits, even Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) and the Obama administration had chimed in.

In the end, it took the combined forces of the American Legion, members of Congress, untold numbers of sympathetic veterans and the spokesman for the leader of the free world to persuade the homeowners association to back off its threat to sue a war hero. Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.) finally brokered a deal that will allow Barfoot to keep his flagpole....

[crin63]

I'll bet you neighborhood is well on its way to becoming a slum.


He said he led a revolt, took-over the association and controls the board. That implies he doesn't want to submit to restrictions on property ownership. That's what creates slums.

My apologies! I just noticed that, "Little Joe Stupid" was trying to participate in the adults conversation again.

In my HOA, the good doctor who had everyone scared of him because he is big, loud and quite the spin-meister was not making any repairs, was not paying the bills and was treating the other property owners as though he was their LORD!

He was making up new rules as he desired and forcing them upon the other residents. He was not paying his HOA dues and still doesn't.

He had all the women in complex completely stressed out worrying about if bills were paid, why things remained broken, and if he was stealing all the money (which made no sense, since he wasn't even depositing the checks).

He allowed the homeowners insurance to lapse at least twice, the city came out to turn off the water to complex because he hadn't paid the water bill in 5 months. He was hiding the books from everyone, doing favors for those who sided with him to keep him in power and billing the HOA for anything he did around here.

He would delay getting paperwork to the escrow companies when people would buy homes for some unknown reason, some suspect he was getting paid to do it by the realtors so escrow could close.

Any emergency repairs that were made, were done by his friends and the bills were about 3-4 times more than any other contractor would have charged.

Now that I have taken over, all the bills are paid on time (except the ones that he still hides from me), repairs are being made as we get quotes from contractors & we can afford them. My neighbors and friends are all relaxed now, no longer stressed about the living conditions here. The 2 older women (who are widows) don't walk around scared any more. The HOA CC&R's (Bylaws, Rules and Declarations) are followed the best of the ability of the Board of Directors and the good doctor is about to have a lien put on his property since he won't pay his dues. All the owners now have a voice in what happens in our little community. Everything is done above board and all the records are every Association meeting for all to review as they desire.

One other little thing that has happened since I moved in, there had been an ongoing war with the Car Wash next door for 10 years that had everyone upset. I went to the city and asked for their help in resolving the matter, we just concluded mediation with the owners of the Car Wash this week and we got everything we asked for.

So in conclusion, Little Joe Stupid, you have no idea what you're talking about as usual.

[Jeff]

You all realize that joe is a fat kid that lives in his mothers basement and eats pizza and candy bars, right? His goal in life is to be a gulag commander. And he actually imagines that he wins arguments here on this board.

:laugh2::laugh2:

Excellent description of slow Joe's life