Why marriage no longer makes sense

[actsnoblemartin]

http://www.nomarriage.com/nosense.html

Traditional marriage balances different privileges and obligations for men and women. Modern woman wants all the benefits of "equality" without any of the responsibilities.

Traditional Western culture balanced special privileges for women with special obligations, and the same for men.

Equality states that no one get special privileges, and that responsibilities and rights should be equally shared.

Either system is balanced and fair. The problem with modern Western culture is that many women want only the positives from both systems:

They want special privileges from the traditional system (men paying, being "gentlemen" by using special deferential manners and language to women, being the main breadwinner, etc) but not the old-fashioned obligations (being modest and ladylike, being a housewife, etc).

[Kathianne]

http://www.nomarriage.com/nosense.html

Traditional marriage balances different privileges and obligations for men and women. Modern woman wants all the benefits of "equality" without any of the responsibilities.

Traditional Western culture balanced special privileges for women with special obligations, and the same for men.

Equality states that no one get special privileges, and that responsibilities and rights should be equally shared.

Either system is balanced and fair. The problem with modern Western culture is that many women want only the positives from both systems:

They want special privileges from the traditional system (men paying, being "gentlemen" by using special deferential manners and language to women, being the main breadwinner, etc) but not the old-fashioned obligations (being modest and ladylike, being a housewife, etc).

Want to spell out where you think women are 'falling short', per your implications?

[actsnoblemartin]

they dont dress or act lady like.

These days most women, act like classless whores, with no modesty or ladylike dress or behavior

Second, women should not be entitled to alimony, youre an adult and it is nobody's responsibility to take care of you, and women use men for money , i.e. dating and bills etc.

Women look down on men who dont make more money then them, and then if they make more money, they put the men down


Want to spell out where you think women are 'falling short', per your implications?

[Kathianne]

they dont dress or act lady like.

These days most women, act like classless whores, with no modesty or ladylike dress or behavior

Second, women should not be entitled to alimony, youre an adult and it is nobody's responsibility to take care of you, and women use men for money , i.e. dating and bills etc.

Women look down on men who dont make more money then them, and then if they make more money, they put the men down

So, women should just 'shut up', 'dress in veil', and when divorced suck it up. Gotcha.

You would claim not to be a misogynist, right?

[Jeff]

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Martin is asking for trouble again!!

Martin not all woman fit that profile, ya come to the South and there are plenty of fine respectable woman here, as I am sure there are in all area's , as in anything Martin ya have good and bad

[actsnoblemartin]

I never said women should just shut up, their is a difference in being modest and letting it all hang out there. Women should have their own mind, and be assertive, but they shouldnt be loud, obnoxious, and in you face, should they?

when did i say they should dress in veil, you really shouldnt lie or embellish what i say

and if divorced, since women WORK these days, should pay their own way. Yes they should suck it up, like a man would, unless their NOT equal

nice try, you lose


So, women should just 'shut up', 'dress in veil', and when divorced suck it up. Gotcha.

You would claim not to be a misogynist, right?

[actsnoblemartin]

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Martin is asking for trouble again!!

Martin not all woman fit that profile, ya come to the South and there are plenty of fine respectable woman here, as I am sure there are in all area's , as in anything Martin ya have good and bad

I love kathianne, but I am afraid of no one :)

im ready for this fight.

I truly believe marriage is a female fairy tale, that men should not participate in.

If their was a 50% chance i would die everytime i left my house, or 50% of the time i ate, i would get food poisoning I would not do it.

Half of all marriages fail, their is never a reason for men, to participate in act that women dont live in reality about until after their married, when it will inevitably fail Half the time.

[actsnoblemartin]

My profile doesnt say all women, but i will say the vast majority 60-80% of women do not act ladylike or modest at all

Their are some good women, but I dont feel men benefit from a venture that leads to failure half the time, and relationships would be better not living together/being married in my judgment.

you would have the opportunity to miss the other person, and have your own space, and i believe men need their own space, especially when women are on their period, god who wants to put up with a woman a whole week when they are on the rag?


:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Martin is asking for trouble again!!

Martin not all woman fit that profile, ya come to the South and there are plenty of fine respectable woman here, as I am sure there are in all area's , as in anything Martin ya have good and bad

[MtnBiker]

Do you know Micheal Jordon missed more shot then he made. He failed at making points more than he tried. By your standard he should have never played basketball.

[actsnoblemartin]

yes, their are good women, and bad women

But i believe the majority of women are bad, shallow, superficial

less so in some places, i believe like the south and midwest, but still this lie that marriage is so wonderful when its nothing but a full time job (in my humble opinion)

again, i dont believe in anything that fails half the time.


:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Martin is asking for trouble again!!

Martin not all woman fit that profile, ya come to the South and there are plenty of fine respectable woman here, as I am sure there are in all area's , as in anything Martin ya have good and bad

[actsnoblemartin]

did he lose money? houses, half to pay child support or alimony by missing those shots.

You fail at many things, their are different types of failure, with different levels of consequences.

He didnt have to go home, and live with the basketball, he didnt have to pay the basketball money, or anything else.

He had time away from the basketball, and he enjoyed the game.

I dont think most men, enjoy being married.

I think too many women change after they get married.

I guess, im not allowed to criticize women, being a man because women dont like it, so its anti woman, but women on here have in the past criticized men, and i didnt say they hated men

its non sense

your analogy doesnt work, apples and oranges


Do you know Micheal Jordon missed more shot then he made. He failed at making points more than he tried. By your standard he should have never played basketball.

[Jeff]

I love kathianne, but I am afraid of no one :)

im ready for this fight.

I truly believe marriage is a female fairy tale, that men should not participate in.

If their was a 50% chance i would die everytime i left my house, or 50% of the time i ate, i would get food poisoning I would not do it.

Half of all marriages fail, their is never a reason for men, to participate in act that women dont live in reality about until after their married, when it will inevitably fail Half the time.

Buddy I went threw hell for 15 years in a marriage that was from hell, I have now been married for 10 years to a wonderful lady that takes care of my kids , my Mom , has a great education, so yes she can support herself, she is wonderful, ooo and she looks pretty dang good also :thumb:

As for nopt leaving your house martin do ya realize how many people get hurt in there own tub ? should ya quit showering ? If ya live in a city I bet there are pretty good odds you could be mugged , get in a wreck with your car, and so on, these may not be 50% chances but chances just the same

I ride a Harley , chances are if I get in a wreck I will get hurt a lot worse than if I am driving my Big truck, should I quit riding ? Life is full of chances Martin , sometimes taking a chance leads to real happiness

[Jeff]

did he lose money? houses, half to pay child support or alimony by missing those shots.

You fail at many things, their are different types of failure, with different levels of consequences.

He didnt have to go home, and live with the basketball, he didnt have to pay the basketball money, or anything else.

He had time away from the basketball, and he enjoyed the game.

I dont think most men, enjoy being married.

I think too many women change after they get married.

I guess, im not allowed to criticize women, being a man because women dont like it, so its anti woman, but women on here have in the past criticized men, and i didnt say they hated men

its non sense

your analogy doesnt work, apples and oranges

Martin I hear ya, but let me set ya straight here, as far as child support when I divorced my ex I sent it like clock work, they are my children and where they live doesn't excuse me or anyone from there obligation to support them, as luck would have it, my oldest is 21 and my youngest is 15 and lives with me and his Mom hasn't paid not one dime, and that is fine, that attitude is why I left her

As for alimony the courts are getting away from that, at least in my case they did, she was originally handed 500 a month in alimony , but when we went to court the judge threw it out, told her to support herself, she was expected to pay ( I think ) 35% of what they thought it would take to raise the kids and I payed the rest in support

[Kathianne]

No one should be afraid of me, Martin. I am not going to silence you or anyone else for disagreeing with me. However, your 'facts' lack back up:


Traditional marriage balances different privileges and obligations for men and women. Modern woman wants all the benefits of "equality" without any of the responsibilities.

Traditional Western culture balanced special privileges for women with special obligations, and the same for men.

Equality states that no one get special privileges, and that responsibilities and rights should be equally shared.

Either system is balanced and fair. The problem with modern Western culture is that many women want only the positives from both systems:

They want special privileges from the traditional system (men paying, being "gentlemen" by using special deferential manners and language to women, being the main breadwinner, etc) but not the old-fashioned obligations (being modest and ladylike, being a housewife, etc). From what source? It's your opinion.


they dont dress or act lady like.I guess this would be by 'your' standards?

These days most women, act like classless whores, with no modesty or ladylike dress or behavior.Again, your standards?

Second, That would be thirdly?women should not be entitled to alimony, youre an adult and it is nobody's responsibility to take care of you, and women use men for money , i.e. dating and bills etc.Well unless they were the pure slave you're looking for, right? Well maybe not. In any case, no alimony?

Women look down on men who dont make more money then them, and then if they make more money, they put the men downSource?

[actsnoblemartin]

thank you

:beer:


Martin I hear ya, but let me set ya straight here, as far as child support when I divorced my ex I sent it like clock work, they are my children and where they live doesn't excuse me or anyone from there obligation to support them, as luck would have it, my oldest is 21 and my youngest is 15 and lives with me and his Mom hasn't paid not one dime, and that is fine, that attitude is why I left her

As for alimony the courts are getting away from that, at least in my case they did, she was originally handed 500 a month in alimony , but when we went to court the judge threw it out, told her to support herself, she was expected to pay ( I think ) 35% of what they thought it would take to raise the kids and I payed the rest in support

[actsnoblemartin]

I was just being defiant, your a sweet heart kathianne

believe it or not, i made this thread, NOT to attack anyone, but because I wanted to discuss my feelings

and ive been seeing a lot of negative images of marriage lately, dam divorce court :coffee:

im not sure what u want a source on exactly


No one should be afraid of me, Martin. I am not going to silence you or anyone else for disagreeing with me. However, your 'facts' lack back up:

From what source? It's your opinion.

Source?

[Kathianne]

I was just being defiant, your a sweet heart kathianne

believe it or not, i made this thread, NOT to attack anyone, but because I wanted to discuss my feelings

and ive been seeing a lot of negative images of marriage lately, dam divorce court :coffee:

im not sure what u want a source on exactly

Your 'facts' on women. You were the one that posted those facts.

[actsnoblemartin]

its more of an opinion, then a fact.

as you reminded me, we all have different standards i guess

but your not being specific, give me a sentence or something that you want backup for


Your 'facts' on women. You were the one that posted those facts.

[MtnBiker]

This is your standard;



If their was a 50% chance i would die everytime i left my house, or 50% of the time i ate, i would get food poisoning I would not do it.

Half of all marriages fail, their is never a reason for men, to participate in act that women dont live in reality about until after their married, when it will inevitably fail Half the time.





your analogy doesnt work, apples and oranges

My analogy was based on someone attempting to do something with less than a %50 success rate, you standard was to avoid doing something if there was a %50 chance of failure. So again by your standard Jordan should not have played ball. The analogy does work.

[Kathianne]

This is your standard;






My analogy was based on someone attempting to do something with less than a %50 success rate, you standard was to avoid doing something if there was a %50 chance of failure. So again by your standard Jordan should not have played ball. The analogy does work.

I tried to rep, but couldn't. It's way too obvious, but some will still miss. I'm working on just breathing. ;)

[actsnoblemartin]

you are half correct, the percentages are the same, but i think marriage is a bit different then basketball


This is your standard;






My analogy was based on someone attempting to do something with less than a %50 success rate, you standard was to avoid doing something if there was a %50 chance of failure. So again by your standard Jordan should not have played ball. The analogy does work.

[SassyLady]

Noble - you expect women to be modest and act like ladies. How are the men supposed to act?

You also think women should stay home and be a housewife. You seem to put a lot of responsibility and expectations on what the "woman" is required to do. What is the man required to do in order for the marriage to succeed. It takes both working toward a common goal for the marriage to succeed.

Perhaps you know that "you" would fail if married and that it would have nothing to do with the woman and her behavior at all. When you can righteouly claim you are the perfect "husband" then you might have something to complain about as to what a woman's role should be in a marriage.

[Trigg]

I I truly believe marriage is a female fairy tale, that men should not participate in.

If their was a 50% chance i would die everytime i left my house, or 50% of the time i ate, i would get food poisoning I would not do it.

Half of all marriages fail, their is never a reason for men, to participate in act that women dont live in reality about until after their married, when it will inevitably fail Half the time.

Good lord,


You realize that those marriage statistics take into account EVERY marriage and there are people out there who've been married 3-4 times.

If you take out the serial divorcers the percentages go down.

Men do get something out of marriage. Married men on average live longer, I'd say that right there is an incentive.

[Trigg]

I never said women should just shut up, their is a difference in being modest and letting it all hang out there. Women should have their own mind, and be assertive, but they shouldnt be loud, obnoxious, and in you face, should they?

when did i say they should dress in veil, you really shouldnt lie or embellish what i say

and if divorced, since women WORK these days, should pay their own way. Yes they should suck it up, like a man would, unless their NOT equal

nice try, you lose

Just out of curiosity how many states still have alimony???????? I'd say the VAST majority of women who get divorced have to work since they are the ones with custody of the children. Child support doesn't pay the bills.

Also, why shouldn't women be loud and obnoxious???? Hell, men are everyday, but it's not called obnoxious or bitchy. If they do it it's called good leadership.

[actsnoblemartin]

men should behave nobly too, they are not off the hook.

Men can act stupid, and barbaric, and un-gentlemanly, and sleep around like whores, not good.

Men are supposed to be mature, gentlemanly, sweet, kind, protective.

I never said women should stay at home and be a housewife, they have a choice to work or not. Im not doctor laura, I do think children are better off having one parent at home, doesnt have to be the female, i think its better then daycare, but my personal opinion, im not making a judgment about working men or women

you are correct, men need to be better listeners, more compassionate, and try to do everything they can to make it work

I probably would fail, but that is not my fault, I have disabilities that I dont think a woman could put up with/deal with/be patient enough with.

But i also look at the failure rate of marriage, and the way women act, and i dont have faith in them. Some women like you, and trigg, kathianne, are wonderful women, but i dont believe your the majority, sorry, oh and abbey too


Noble - you expect women to be modest and act like ladies. How are the men supposed to act?

You also think women should stay home and be a housewife. You seem to put a lot of responsibility and expectations on what the "woman" is required to do. What is the man required to do in order for the marriage to succeed. It takes both working toward a common goal for the marriage to succeed.

Perhaps you know that "you" would fail if married and that it would have nothing to do with the woman and her behavior at all. When you can righteouly claim you are the perfect "husband" then you might have something to complain about as to what a woman's role should be in a marriage.

[actsnoblemartin]

thats a good question. And a double standard. I dont see a reason why men should be mean or obnoxious to anyone, men dont have to be brudish or mean spirited to get their point accross.

men who do act like gentlemen, the vast minority are not the way you describe, we should teach men, to be more gentle too

point taken


Just out of curiosity how many states still have alimony???????? I'd say the VAST majority of women who get divorced have to work since they are the ones with custody of the children. Child support doesn't pay the bills.

Also, why shouldn't women be loud and obnoxious???? Hell, men are everyday, but it's not called obnoxious or bitchy. If they do it it's called good leadership.

[MtnBiker]

you are half correct, the percentages are the same, but i think marriage is a bit different then basketball

Marriage is a bit different than walking out your front door and eating.

[gabosaurus]

Martin dear, you need to keep up with the times. This is no longer the 19th Century.
Women now have complete equality with men. We no longer have to walk around wearing girdles and long frilly dresses. We are educated and powerful now.
One of my husband's supervisors is a woman. She hires and fires people. Her husband doesn't need to work because she makes $400,000 a year. Her husband stays home and takes care of their kids.

Martin, how can you hope to address relationship issues when you have never had a relationship? You need to interact more with women.
Just don't expect a woman to be subservient to you. Most women are smarter than men.

[actsnoblemartin]

im confused, what r u talking about?


Marriage is a bit different than walking out your front door and eating.

[actsnoblemartin]

Let me clear up some things

#1 Ive had relationships

#2 I never said women should wear burka's or be silent, certainly women with a mind, and a backbone are appealing. But why is it, if i want a women of virtue and modesty, my words are spinned in a dishonest way into, i want her to say nothing, be a dormat, and wear a burka. I never said that, I am not in favor of that. Women can be modest, and just as assertive as a man, and there is nothing wrong with that. I also dont think men need to be aggressive in order to be men.

#3 when did i say women shouldnt work, or shouldnt be powerful. Never said that. Never implied that, your not paying attention to my words, or your just being dishonest.

#4 women still take advantage or men for dates, sometimes bills, in fairness some men do the same, and want or get alimony still, since women work, they only deserve what they made in a marriage, same as the man, and you can split possessions otherwise down the middle

#5 if one person stays home and takes care of the kids, and one works, then alimony in that case is ok. but it should be given to men equally as it would a woman.

#6 way to make a sexist comment, most women are smarter then men.

I never questioned women's intelligence, more their choices. Far different

if your gonna slander me, atleast have a point, and try to be somewhat honest


Martin dear, you need to keep up with the times. This is no longer the 19th Century.
Women now have complete equality with men. We no longer have to walk around wearing girdles and long frilly dresses. We are educated and powerful now.
One of my husband's supervisors is a woman. She hires and fires people. Her husband doesn't need to work because she makes $400,000 a year. Her husband stays home and takes care of their kids.

Martin, how can you hope to address relationship issues when you have never had a relationship? You need to interact more with women.
Just don't expect a woman to be subservient to you. Most women are smarter than men.

[MtnBiker]

im confused, what r u talking about?

here I will quote your own word's from this thread, maybe you can figure it out;



If their was a 50% chance i would die everytime i left my house, or 50% of the time i ate, i would get food poisoning I would not do it.



if that doesn't answer your question I can't help you any more

[chloe]

they dont dress or act lady like.

These days most women, act like classless whores, with no modesty or ladylike dress or behavior

Second, women should not be entitled to alimony, youre an adult and it is nobody's responsibility to take care of you, and women use men for money , i.e. dating and bills etc.

Women look down on men who dont make more money then them, and then if they make more money, they put the men down

Martin have you ever been married?

[actsnoblemartin]

I just realized that, write before i got to the second page.

marriage is different, i think its worse.


here I will quote your own word's from this thread, maybe you can figure it out;



if that doesn't answer your question I can't help you any more

[actsnoblemartin]

no.


Martin have you ever been married?

[chloe]

no.

Well after reading all your opinions about marriage, I agree with you that marriage for you no longer makes sense. I think it is great that you are aware of that for yourself. Some people are not marriage people and thats why divorces are so high, but they dont figure it out until years later and sometimes by then they have kids and a lot shared bills and its a big mess. Personally I wont ever marry again either unless Bill O Reilly goes on the market....wink

[Trigg]

thats a good question. And a double standard. I dont see a reason why men should be mean or obnoxious to anyone, men dont have to be brudish or mean spirited to get their point accross.

men who do act like gentlemen, the vast minority are not the way you describe, we should teach men, to be more gentle too

point taken

See this is why you always loose me.

You state that vast majority of men are good and then go on to say the vast majority of women are bad.


Some women like you, and trigg, kathianne, are wonderful women, but i dont believe your the majority, sorry, oh and abbey too

You have major problems with women for some reason.

For the record: I know the majority of men are good hardworking people. I was trying to make a point that men who are obnoxious and pushy aren't throught of as bitchy they're looked up to as leaders.

[actsnoblemartin]

perhaps I wrote it wrong, but i was stating that the vast minority of men are gentlemen.

so thats my fault, but no i believe the vast majority of men are just cocks with bodies who wanna get laid all the time.

and men shouldnt need to be bossy, aggressive or mean, they can be gentleman in all their dealings with women and fellow men

so not sure where we disagree.


See this is why you always loose me.

You state that vast majority of men are good and then go on to say the vast majority of women are bad.



You have major problems with women for some reason.

For the record: I know the majority of men are good hardworking people. I was trying to make a point that men who are obnoxious and pushy aren't throught of as bitchy they're looked up to as leaders.

[actsnoblemartin]

im gonna post something, about my insecurity

but beyond the excuses, of wanting my own space, and fear of divorce

I dont think their is a woman out their that can put up with me :cheers2:, and my disabilities, aspergers, ocd, anxiety.

I just feel like ill never find her, because 90% of women want kids, and how will i ever find a patient, kind, loving, sweet, sensual women, who also dont want kids

so i feel hopeless and unworthy.

and socially afraid, because of my aspergers, how will i find a woman who will understand me, and the fact i have an eating disorder

I would love to find a woman who could convince me she could be my dragon, and love me through thick and thin, if youve seen shrek, the donkey ends up with the dragon

so there you go.

I truly only wanted a discussion, about marriage.

and some of you, are being very helpful


See this is why you always loose me.

You state that vast majority of men are good and then go on to say the vast majority of women are bad.



You have major problems with women for some reason.

For the record: I know the majority of men are good hardworking people. I was trying to make a point that men who are obnoxious and pushy aren't throught of as bitchy they're looked up to as leaders.

[SassyLady]

Noble,

First - thank you for the compliment earlier.

I would like to comment about your revelation about your insecurities:

Until you love and accept yourself and all your faults, you probably will not find a woman who will love you. Speaking for myself ..... I want a man who is happy with himself.........not narcissistic, but just comfortable with himself ..... that way I can give him the best of who I am because I am not expending my energy trying to prop up his ego. So, the first step is to focus on accepting yourself rather than focusing on finding someone who will accept you.

When you've gained peace with yourself you will radiate the confidence that will attract what you need.

[gabosaurus]

Martin, a lot of people (men and women) have insecurities and disabilities. Many of them find mates despite such.
Your main problem is not any of those. It's your attitude. You need to become more user friendly. You have a very condescending attitude toward women.

Marriage is a wonderful thing. It is the ultimate act of trust, respect and understanding between two people who love each.
Marriage can only work if the couple involved treat each others as equals. One can not act as the superior unless both are in agreement of such.
My husband and I approach each issue and decision with the understanding that we are on equal standing. It's a discussion, not a debate.