about those experts.....

[n0spam4me]

Please see:
http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/...ns/romero.html

and note that an Expert who changes his position on an issue (such as this one) inside of 10 days, is maybe not very useful as an expert at all.

Please do try this, look at the videos of the WTC buildings "collapsing" (including WTC 7) and do so with the sound turned off, PLEASE try to clear your mind of all that you have been told about these events and ask yourself,
does this look like the result of Chaotic forces acting on these buildings?

This is NOT rocket science! people can see with their own eyes what is going on here!

A! Bust the emperor for INDECENT EXPOSURE!

[jimnyc]

Please see:
http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/...ns/romero.html

and note that an Expert who changes his position on an issue (such as this one) inside of 10 days, is maybe not very useful as an expert at all.

Please do try this, look at the videos of the WTC buildings "collapsing" (including WTC 7) and do so with the sound turned off, PLEASE try to clear your mind of all that you have been told about these events and ask yourself,
does this look like the result of Chaotic forces acting on these buildings?

This is NOT rocket science! people can see with their own eyes what is going on here!

A! Bust the emperor for INDECENT EXPOSURE!

Your link is as useless as your arguments thus far. You just copied the text instead of copying the link, so no worky!

Nonetheless, I'm confident what your link will spew out, and I'll laugh now before I even read/see it.

18-20 floors caved in on one of the corners from the falling debris and you don't think the building was in danger of falling right from the start? Fires out of control throughout and they even measured the building MOVING (shifting) well before the collapse. Rather than keep asking us the watch the same videos we've seen 1000x and read the truther crap over and over - why don't YOU spend a few days reading all of the official reports. I'm banking on the fact that the only knowledge you have of those reports is what you read on the nutter sites.

[n0spam4me]

Here it is

http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/retractions/romero.html

Please note:

"New Mexico demolitions expert Van Romero said on the day of the attack that he believed the building collapses were "too methodical" to have been a result of the collisions, "

Also I'm asking for people to view the videos and really if you can get your head around this, absent from the "official" explanation, LOOK at the buildings "collapse" and ask is this the result of chaotic forces acting on these buildings?

Simple ... no?

& Yes I have read the OFFICIAL taxpayer funded 9/11 report and ya know what, I had dinner with a group of my old buddies soon after reading said report and I commented on my disgust at the waste of taxpayer dollars to produce this work of fiction and the response was .. YA, just like the WARREN REPORT! WE THE PEOPLE KNOW ... and we have been kvetching a lot to CONGRESS but obviously Congress doesn't work for WE THE PEOPLE!

Can U dig it?

[Winfried Sobottka]

Here it is

( I am not allowed to post URLs up to now so I had to delete it, W.S.)

Please note:

"New Mexico demolitions expert Van Romero said on the day of the attack that he believed the building collapses were "too methodical" to have been a result of the collisions, "

Also I'm asking for people to view the videos and really if you can get your head around this, absent from the "official" explanation, LOOK at the buildings "collapse" and ask is this the result of chaotic forces acting on these buildings?

Simple ... no?

Perhaps not that simple without knowing very well about the special architecture of the towers, about statics and physics. I am not able to say You are right or wrong at that point.



& Yes I have read the OFFICIAL taxpayer funded 9/11 report and ya know what, I had dinner with a group of my old buddies soon after reading said report and I commented on my disgust at the waste of taxpayer dollars to produce this work of fiction and the response was .. YA, just like the WARREN REPORT! WE THE PEOPLE KNOW ... and we have been kvetching a lot to CONGRESS but obviously Congress doesn't work for WE THE PEOPLE!

Can U dig it?

Surely the Congress doesn´t act according to the will of all people but to the will of the rich people only. Surely they do not shrink from killing a lot of Americans for that, the wars in Vietnam, Iraque and Afghanistan are some proofs for that. So the question seems to be: What would change if there would be a proof for a self-made attack to the twins that really no one could deny?

What did change when US-public was informed that US-administration had never had any proofs for arsenals of poison gas in Iraque, while demanding that as a fact had been the declared reason for the second war against Iraque? Nothing.

Where the winds come from is as clear as where they are blowing. No one needs any proof more for that. So the question should only be: "What is to do?"

With kindest regards

Your sincer

Winfried Sobottka, United Anarchists

[n0spam4me]

"Perhaps not that simple without knowing very well about the special architecture of the towers, about statics and physics. I am not able to say You are right or wrong at that point."

You are giving HUGE "benefit of the doubt" .....

This is NOT rocket science, many people who are NOT engineers could see right away that the "collapse" of these buildings was UN-NATURAL, that is had to have help from some external input of energy to make it happen as it did.

You can NOT even intentionally build a tower that given chaotic damage, will reliably produce the result observed with BOTH towers that day. (unless the original construction included explosive charges.... )

Have you ever seen "BLUEPRINT FOR TRUTH" ?

[CSM]

"Perhaps not that simple without knowing very well about the special architecture of the towers, about statics and physics. I am not able to say You are right or wrong at that point."

You are giving HUGE "benefit of the doubt" .....

This is NOT rocket science, many people who are NOT engineers could see right away that the "collapse" of these buildings was UN-NATURAL, that is had to have help from some external input of energy to make it happen as it did.

You can NOT even intentionally build a tower that given chaotic damage, will reliably produce the result observed with BOTH towers that day. (unless the original construction included explosive charges.... )

Have you ever seen "BLUEPRINT FOR TRUTH" ?

Wow...just WOW!!! Of course the collapse of the towers was unnatural... both towers were standing just fine until a couplke of airplanes flew into them! That alone is your "external input of energy"!

Another thing, if all those NOT engineers you know are so smart, why haven't they solved the energy problem, global warming, etc? Coffee house engineers are like shithouse lawyers and about as useful.

[Winfried Sobottka]

Wow...just WOW!!! Of course the collapse of the towers was unnatural... both towers were standing just fine until a couplke of airplanes flew into them! That alone is your "external input of energy"!

All that could have been arranged. You give no argument.



Another thing, if all those NOT engineers you know are so smart, why haven't they solved the energy problem, global warming, etc? Coffee house engineers are like shithouse lawyers and about as useful.

Unbelievable! There are a lot of solutions but the elite of power doesn´t give a damn as really everybody knows.

Winfried Sobottka, United Anarchists

[CSM]

All that could have been arranged. You give no argument.




Unbelievable! There are a lot of solutions but the elite of power doesn´t give a damn as really everybody knows.

Winfried Sobottka, United Anarchists

Nothing to argue...no point in arguing about someone else's fantasy.

Of course it was arranged...that is exactly what the terrorists did.

As for not giving a damn, it is my opinion that the conspiracy theorists want SO MUCH to believe that the US government was behind 9/11, they will ignore the real evidence and make up their own. They will also exclude all possible explanations EXCEPT the one that they espouse. It does not occur to them that the "official" explanation could possibly be the truth!

You can believe what you want, but I can guarantee you that no amount of posting of contrived evidence will convince anyone of anything. I was merely commenting on what I percieve as skewed/illogical rationalization to "prove" something.

[jimnyc]

All that could have been arranged. You give no argument.

Can you give a plausible argument as to HOW Bush and/or the "Skulls and Bones" conspired on 9/11? And please, not a fantasy argument, but something that has actual evidence.

[Gaffer]

If the government was behind 9/11 and went to all the effort of blowing up buildings, all so they could invade iraq. Then why didn't they plant WMD's in iraq after the invasion. Seems it would have been easier to do than months of planting explosives in busy office buildings.

[Winfried Sobottka]

Perhaps they didn´t work cleanly? Of course it makes sense to take logic as a mean not only in own affairs but also to understand others. But firstly there is to say that any manipulation in Iraq would have been risky because of international observers: Experts probably would have been able to find out where such weapons would have been produced or probably would have been able to assert that weapons couldn´t have been produced in Iraq?

Elsewise: SS-Researchers had found out that Germany could never win a war against the Soviet Union - in 1940. Himmler didn´t want to hear that, if they would have told Hitler then it would supposely be the same. So Germany started the war against the Soviet Union in 1941.

Be sure: If Bush & Co. (our politicians aren´t better) would alltimes follow the rules of logic then we would have a much better world. The problem is that they are ignorants.

[Winfried Sobottka]

Can you give a plausible argument as to HOW Bush and/or the "Skulls and Bones" conspired on 9/11? And please, not a fantasy argument, but something that has actual evidence.

I can give plausible arguments, certainly:

1. Getting an alleged reason for the war against Afghanistan they wanted to make because of "geopolitical interests".

2. Getting an alleged reason for reducing civil rights and arming police- and security-services.

3. Very good profits for Lockheed, Litton, Halliburton and so on.

Reasons that count for Skull & Bones.

With kindest regards

Winfried Sobottka, United Anarchists

PS.: Regarding the HOW: Shall I really write about that?

[Trigg]

If the government was behind 9/11 and went to all the effort of blowing up buildings, all so they could invade iraq. Then why didn't they plant WMD's in iraq after the invasion. Seems it would have been easier to do than months of planting explosives in busy office buildings.

careful your making sense, the tinfoil hat crowd doesn't handle that very well.

[jimnyc]

I can give plausible arguments, certainly:

1. Getting an alleged reason for the war against Afghanistan they wanted to make because of "geopolitical interests".

2. Getting an alleged reason for reducing civil rights and arming police- and security-services.

3. Very good profits for Lockheed, Litton, Halliburton and so on.

Reasons that count for Skull & Bones.

My bad, I supposed I worded my request incorrectly. I am looking for an alternative argument that would include evidence, and that's physical evidence. In other words, no op ed pieces, no reviews from unknowns that weren't even in the official investigation, and no "well there's no way the buildings could have fallen that way". Please tell me what provable facts you have and what physical evidence you have...

[Winfried Sobottka]

My bad, I supposed I worded my request incorrectly. I am looking for an alternative argument that would include evidence, and that's physical evidence. In other words, no op ed pieces, no reviews from unknowns that weren't even in the official investigation, and no "well there's no way the buildings could have fallen that way". Please tell me what provable facts you have and what physical evidence you have...

I had complemented my last posting before I had taken notice of Yours quoted above.

Firstly: Among German Anarchists am known as a rather good analyst who thinks without irregular limits. So I am sure I could offer You what You seem to want to get. But: Take is at possible that I could do that work really well.

Secondly: To be a rather good analyst doesn´t mean to know everything. I have same basic ideas but would need more informations. You can compare that to the role of a police-inspector who has a base suspicion in a case of a murder and who has to interrogate witnesses, suspects and experts to get at last all he needs to say: "It ran that way!"

That means: I would need the cooperation of other forum-members who are interested in that matter and who have knowledge I don´t have up to now.

Given that I should open a thread for that and some of You would learn how to go in such matters. And at the end of that there could probably be a result powerful people in the U.S.A. wouldn´t like.

Anyway: That isn´t a wishy-washy-affair, I can handle it thoroughly or not.

With kindest regards

Winfried Sobottka, United Anarchists

[jimnyc]

Here is a link to a prior debate on this board. It's quite thorough and offers both my supporting arguments for the "official story" and at least the majority of the "conspiracies" from Sertes. We call those who think 9/11 was an inside job, but never offer anything of substance when it comes to evidence, as "truthers". I won't debate with someone who constantly offers no more than opinions or their disbelief.

If you have that evidence, I would love to discuss it with you. Have any questions about the prior debate, ask away.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=7661

[Kathianne]

Here is a link to a prior debate on this board. It's quite thorough and offers both my supporting arguments for the "official story" and at least the majority of the "conspiracies" from Sertes. We call those who think 9/11 was an inside job, but never offer anything of substance when it comes to evidence, as "truthers". I won't debate with someone who constantly offers no more than opinions or their disbelief.

If you have that evidence, I would love to discuss it with you. Have any questions about the prior debate, ask away.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=7661

Jim, you are assuming this person is capable, willing, and able to read through all that, then respond. It's like asking Chessy to read the links he posts. Too difficult.

[Mr. P]

Oh hell...Okay..BUSH DID IT, THEN STOLE ALL THE OIL FROM IRAQ!

That's why gas is $2.59/gal here now..that greedy bastard!!!

[Kathianne]

Oh hell...Okay..BUSH DID IT, THEN STOLE ALL THE OIL FROM IRAQ!

That's why gas is $2.59/gal here now..that greedy bastard!!!

$2.89 here, Mr. P.

[Mr. P]

$2.89 here, Mr. P.

The South will rise agian..give us a day. :laugh2:

[Kathianne]

The South will rise agian..give us a day. :laugh2:

I really am considering moving South, but not for that reason! :laugh2:

[Mr. P]

I really am considering moving South, but not for that reason! :laugh2:

It's nice..come on down. Big BUGS though, some with two legs.

[Kathianne]

It's nice..come on down. Big BUGS though, some with two legs.

I'm hoping if I relocate, I can afford really good exterminators!

[Mr. P]

I'm hoping if I relocate, I can afford really good exterminators!

Which state/s are you looking at?

[Kathianne]

which state/s are you looking at?

tn, ky, fl, ga, fl

[Mr. P]

tn, ky, fl, ga, fl

Fla? ¿Habla Español? :poke:

Then again, we all speak funny here. :laugh2:

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Hell I read my links, well most of it, I tend to glean what I'm looking for, and sample it.
2. This new guys funny.
3. Lets keep him.
4. Worth a LOL every once in a while.
5. That long post he made on first page at the bottom was some classical tap dancing.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Kathianne]

Fla? ¿Habla Español? :poke:

Then again, we all speak funny here. :laugh2:

I'm looking for school districts that are looking for 'well qualified' teachers and coming up short. I'll go where that takes me.

[n0spam4me]

Given that the original charge of 19 suicidal Arabs hijacking 4 commercial airliners and crashing 3 of them into buildings, is from our ever-loving Public servants, the burden of prof is on them to PROVE that it was indeed the way that they said it was, HOWEVER, this argument has been twisted around such that now the people who support the LIES & FRAUD of not only the Bush administration but now the bogus Obama administration are demanding prof from the people who can see the obvious holes in the "official" story.
Houston, we have a problem here! The big question here is do YOU personally TRUST Bush/Obama, the Congress, the mainstream media ... (or?)
This is what it boils down to, do YOU TRUST these people?
Have you ever seen a movie called the FLIM-FLAM MAN? read the "EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES" ... what we have here with our glorious public servants ... its all FAKE, sick & twisted mind games, the BIG LIE, FRAUD & RIP-OFF! WE THE PEOPLE have been lied to!
We have no 4th estate! period! SNOT REEL! its all a wholly owned subsidiary of GREED INC. Corporations that have NO allegiance to ANY nation (much less the U.S.A.!) and they will stop at NOTHING to solidify their position as rulers of the world. Remember the old empire builders, Romans (etc...) the goal was to TAKE OVER THE WORLD! Empires still exist, its just taken a different form. WAKE UP AMERICA!



Here is a link to a prior debate on this board. It's quite thorough and offers both my supporting arguments for the "official story" and at least the majority of the "conspiracies" from Sertes. We call those who think 9/11 was an inside job, but never offer anything of substance when it comes to evidence, as "truthers". I won't debate with someone who constantly offers no more than opinions or their disbelief.

If you have that evidence, I would love to discuss it with you. Have any questions about the prior debate, ask away.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=7661