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Noir
10-25-2009, 01:44 AM
To label a child by its parents religion.

Why do we call a child a Catholic child, or a protestant child, or a Muslim child.

We would not call a child a Republican or a Democrat, because their parents are, as we know they are not old enough to make a choice for themselves, yet we find it fine to label children with religious labels, and even send them to faith schools with other children who have been labeled, though no choice of their own,

Abbey Marie
10-25-2009, 06:38 AM
The implication being that raising a child in one's religion is somehow awful or harmful? Do you prefer a child be raised with a vacuum of beliefs?

Or is it just the labels that you object to, not the inculcation of specific religious beliefs?

avatar4321
10-25-2009, 10:48 AM
Why do you presume we are labeling them by the parents religion and not their own?

crin63
10-25-2009, 04:00 PM
We don't label our kids as Baptists just because they go to our church and our school since most remain non-Christians.
They are for the most part just non-Christian kids attending.

Noir
10-25-2009, 05:33 PM
The implication being that raising a child in one's religion is somehow awful or harmful? Do you prefer a child be raised with a vacuum of beliefs?

Or is it just the labels that you object to, not the inculcation of specific religious beliefs?

The implication being that these children are brain-washed on a day to day basis, yet it is deemed accepptable as is in the name of religion,

You would not call the child of racsists a racsist child, and we would be rightly horrified as these racist people pushed their belfiefs onto a child which knew no better, yet its okay if its done with religion, my question is why do we find that acceptable?

Noir
10-25-2009, 05:34 PM
Why do you presume we are labeling them by the parents religion and not their own?

Are you trying to tell me that a 6/7/8/9/10 year old child has been able to make a decision over what religion they should follow?

Noir
10-25-2009, 05:37 PM
We don't label our kids as Baptists just because they go to our church and our school since most remain non-Christians.
They are for the most part just non-Christian kids attending.

So you would not consider your children to be Baptist?

(forgive me for making the assumption that you have children, if not then i rephase my question to; If you do have children, would you raise them to be Baptist?)

crin63
10-25-2009, 06:55 PM
So you would not consider your children to be Baptist?

(forgive me for making the assumption that you have children, if not then i rephase my question to; If you do have children, would you raise them to be Baptist?)

My children have been raised in a Baptist Church their whole lives but they are not Christians and therefore are not Baptists.

Noir
10-25-2009, 07:14 PM
My children have been raised in a Baptist Church their whole lives but they are not Christians and therefore are not Baptists.

Indeedy, and you saw it as acceptable to raise them though a Baptist church, just because that is what you beleieve in, i'm sure if you'd been aproched by a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Hindu saying you should raise the child through their church you would have found that unaceptable, no?

chloe
10-25-2009, 07:15 PM
I don't consider a child being brainwashed if they are termed a mormon, baptist, atheist, muslim or jewish. In utah kids don't get baptized mormon until they are 8 yrs old, but frequently when my kids have played with other kids my kids have been asked by the other kids if they are lds (latter day saint) my kids say no we dont have a religion. I don't think anything is wrong with someone raising a child into what they believe. I associate the children with the religion they are being raised in so I can respect what there parents values or beliefs might be so I don't violate there comfort zone or boundaries. My kids are considered non-religious which is aslo a label or way of identity.

Noir
10-25-2009, 07:21 PM
I don't consider a child being brainwashed if they are termed a mormon, baptist, atheist, muslim or jewish. In utah kids don't get baptized mormon until they are 8 yrs old, but frequently when my kids have played with other kids my kids have been asked by the other kids if they are lds (latter day saint) my kids say no we dont have a religion. I don't think anything is wrong with someone raising a child into what they believe. I associate the children with the religion they are being raised in so I can respect what there parents values or beliefs might be so I don't violate there comfort zone or boundaries. My kids are considered non-religious which is aslo a label or way of identity.

Let me respoond to that with anyother question, instead of using religion i shall use economic idiologies.

If you saw a 10 year old child, raised in a house with a marxist Mother and Father, and that 10 year old was able to rhyme of reasons why capitalism was bad, and why marxism was good, and then be told that the child had been sent to a Marxist school, would you not feel that the child had been brainwashed?

chloe
10-25-2009, 07:29 PM
Let me respoond to that with anyother question, instead of using religion i shall use economic idiologies.

If you saw a 10 year old child, raised in a house with a marxist Mother and Father, and that 10 year old was able to rhyme of reasons why capitalism was bad, and why marxism was good, and then be told that the child had been sent to a Marxist school, would you not feel that the child had been brainwashed?

I would think that the parents values were marxist and the child was raised in those values, so the family supports those beliefs. When the child is adult they will either accept or reject the beliefs the family wanted to pass onto them.

chloe
10-25-2009, 07:32 PM
The same thing can be said for just about anything really, In alcoholic families kids often become alcoholics, but sometimes they do just the opposite.

Noir
10-25-2009, 07:34 PM
I would think that the parents values were marxist and the child was raised in those values, so the family supports those beliefs. When the child is adult they will either accept or reject the beliefs the family wanted to pass onto them.

and the fact is that they are much more lilky to stick with what they have been taught from no age, what their friends and family believe, that which they have been brainwashed into believing.

Noir
10-25-2009, 07:36 PM
The same thing can be said for just about anything really, In alcoholic families kids often become alcoholics, but sometimes they do just the opposite.

Very true, though I would not use such an example, as then religious folk start saying "you're comparing my views with being an alcoholic" and thus the debate can digress.

chloe
10-25-2009, 07:38 PM
Parents influence there children from birth, some say even in the tummy mothers have influence. I don't really consider that brainwashing though. Life is an experience and so the parents do there best to pass on there values and when children are grown they accept or reject it, my kids are already telling me what they accept or reject about my beliefs LOL.

Missileman
10-25-2009, 07:39 PM
My children have been raised in a Baptist Church their whole lives but they are not Christians and therefore are not Baptists.


None of your children believe in Christ, or they haven't met some requirement of re-birth to be considered "real" Christians?

Noir
10-25-2009, 07:50 PM
Parents influence there children from birth, some say even in the tummy mothers have influence. I don't really consider that brainwashing though. Life is an experience and so the parents do there best to pass on there values and when children are grown they accept or reject it, my kids are already telling me what they accept or reject about my beliefs LOL.

True, to an extent.

Religion is treated differently to other beliefs, you may believe in a free market, or that you are of a superior race, or that a womens only place is in the home and not at work. But you could not send your child to a school to be taught by racists and learn with other kids who have racist families, the same could be applied to sexist, homophobic, marxist beliefs ect, you can however send your child to a faith school, to be taught by members of a certain faith, and learn with (and thus generate a social circle with) others in the same position

chloe
10-25-2009, 07:59 PM
True, to an extent.

Religion is treated differently to other beliefs, you may believe in a free market, or that you are of a superior race, or that a womens only place is in the home and not at work. But you could not send your child to a school to be taught by racists and learn with other kids who have racist families, the same could be applied to sexist, homophobic, marxist beliefs ect, you can however send your child to a faith school, to be taught by members of a certain faith, and learn with (and thus generate a social circle with) others in the same position

I understand your point, I was raised in a religious cult, (not mormon I know some people call mormons a cult too) I prefer not to say. But even though I went through alot of experiences based on my parents choices, I made my own choices as an adult. My kids have gone to a mormon church before (when I was married to a mormon) and they werent that interested in it. So then they chose not to go. I think we have discrimination on religions, non-religious people, race, class, gender. That will most likely always be the case and so to me the saddest part of that is when society becomes so desensitized by it all that nobody cares to express love or care for one and another anymore or demonstrate compassion without trying to sanction or suppress one and other. I dont think a parent can stop that but they can teach strength survival and there own ways of coping and for some that will be found through there religious beliefs.

crin63
10-25-2009, 11:07 PM
None of your children believe in Christ, or they haven't met some requirement of re-birth to be considered "real" Christians?

My children believe in Jesus but have not embraced him as saviour. Therefore they are not Christians.

Missileman
10-26-2009, 05:52 AM
My children believe in Jesus but have not embraced him as saviour. Therefore they are not Christians.

I figured it was something like that.

crin63
10-26-2009, 10:39 AM
Indeedy, and you saw it as acceptable to raise them though a Baptist church, just because that is what you beleieve in, i'm sure if you'd been aproched by a Muslim, or a Jew, or a Hindu saying you should raise the child through their church you would have found that unaceptable, no?

Remember someday when you have kids not to teach them anything because you don't want to indoctrinate them. Be sure not to teach them that there are any rights and wrongs since you seem to want those things to be subjective. Hey if your kid wants to play in the street why stop them if thats what they want to do. Better not feed them either since you wont know if they are going to be vegans or steak loving meat eaters. Just because the baby is crying does it really want its diaper changed, I mean how do you know if it cant tell you, better let that alone also.

crin63
10-26-2009, 10:43 AM
I figured it was something like that.

LOL! I don't normally bother with you since its just a waste of board space, but it would seem that if someone wants to be called a Christian then they would actually embrace the Christ of Christianity.

Abbey Marie
10-26-2009, 03:10 PM
The implication being that these children are brain-washed on a day to day basis, yet it is deemed accepptable as is in the name of religion,

You would not call the child of racsists a racsist child, and we would be rightly horrified as these racist people pushed their belfiefs onto a child which knew no better, yet its okay if its done with religion, my question is why do we find that acceptable?

But you did not answer my question. Do you prefer that a child grow up with a vacuum of beliefs? It is said, if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything. I believe that whole-heartedly.

Even the least religious among us will usually admit that the teachings of Jesus Christ are good and positive. Even those of other religions who do not believe he is the Savior, often consider him a great prophet.

The fact that your chosen analogy is to racists, tells me you know nothing of the teachings of Christ. May I humbly suggest you read the New Testament with an open heart? Then, if you still think it is indoctrinating crap on the level of racism, that's of course your prerogative.

Noir
10-26-2009, 03:20 PM
But you did not answer my question. Do you prefer that a child grow up with vacuum of beliefs? It is said, if you stand for noting, you will fall for anything. I believe that whole-heartedly.

Even the least religious among us will usually admit that the teachings of Jesus Christ are good and positive. Even those of other religions who do not believe he is the Savior, often consider him a great prophet.

The fact that your chosen analogy is to racists, tells me you know nothing of the teachings of Christ. May I humbly suggest you read the New Testament with an open heart? Then, if you still think it is indoctrinating crap on the level of racism, that's of course your prerogative.

Indeed, sorry for not replying fully,

Yes i believe they should grow up in a religious vacuum, but not a moral one.

I know that many of the teachings of Chirst are good moral ones, as there are also good moral stories in Buddhism, Islam, Hindu ect ect.

I chose the analogy of racists because it is so obviously left-of-field, you could easily put an number of titles in its space and it would mean the same thing,

and my thanks for your suggestion but i shall not be reading the NT, because while i'm sure it may conform to many of my moral beliefs, i do not need the promise of an afterlife, or the need for salvation to lead it.

Abbey Marie
10-26-2009, 03:30 PM
Indeed, sorry for not replying fully,

Yes i believe they should grow up in a religious vacuum, but not a moral one.

I know that many of the teachings of Chirst are good moral ones, as there are also good moral stories in Buddhism, Islam, Hindu ect ect.

I chose the analogy of racists because it is so obviously left-of-field, you could easily put an number of titles in its space and it would mean the same thing,

and my thanks for your suggestion but i shall not be reading the NT, because while i'm sure it may conform to many of my moral beliefs, i do not need the promise of an afterlife, or the need for salvation to lead it.

Your decision, Noir. Maybe someday your curiosity will lead you there. Personally, I think you are searching for meaning, and that is a good thing!

Missileman
10-26-2009, 07:10 PM
LOL! I don't normally bother with you since its just a waste of board space, but it would seem that if someone wants to be called a Christian then they would actually embrace the Christ of Christianity.

And I would think that believing in Christ and living life in a Christian manner would suffice rather than some kooky cultish hoop that's designed to make the hoop jumper feel somehow superior to other believers in Christ.

crin63
10-28-2009, 10:24 AM
And I would think that believing in Christ and living life in a Christian manner would suffice rather than some kooky cultish hoop that's designed to make the hoop jumper feel somehow superior to other believers in Christ.

Since your only interest is to mock and ridicule Christianity at every opportunity with no real interest in an honest discussion I hesitate to ask, but what in particular are you in reference too?

HogTrash
10-28-2009, 12:10 PM
To label a child by its parents religion.

Why do we call a child a Catholic child, or a protestant child, or a Muslim child.

We would not call a child a Republican or a Democrat, because their parents are, as we know they are not old enough to make a choice for themselves, yet we find it fine to label children with religious labels, and even send them to faith schools with other children who have been labeled, though no choice of their own,Many of today's problems began with the liberal/progressive war on God and religion, particularly Christianity.

This is obvious to anyone whose been around long enough to witness the transition and has been paying attention.

Children are now much more disrespectful to their parents, are into drugs and sexually active at much younger ages.

Juveniles are involved in criminal activities and even murder at grade school age and girls are dressing like whores at age 11.

We can't be sure if it's a direct result of the removal of religion from their lives but the timelines coinside exactly with this trend.

Regardless of our beliefs, maybe it's time many of us reconsider religion and the positive affects it has on the lives of our children.

Noir
10-28-2009, 12:36 PM
Many of today's problems began with the liberal/progressive war on God and religion, particularly Christianity.

This is obvious to anyone whose been around long enough to witness the transition and has been paying attention.

Children are now much more disrespectful to their parents, are into drugs and sexually active at much younger ages.

Juveniles are involved in criminal activities and even murder at grade school age and girls are dressing like whores at age 11.

We can't be sure if it's a direct result of the removal of religion from their lives but the timelines coinside exactly with this trend.

Regardless of our beliefs, maybe it's time many of us reconsider religion and the positive affects it has on the lives of our children.

Pure tosh, it is nothing to do with religion, otherwise surly I, having been brought up in a house with no religion, and not chosing to be religious, should be as you discribe above,
and yet i also know plenty of familys who are religioius, and i've been to parties with their christain children and watched in mild disgust as they get drunk and high and what not,

The Key is respect for ones elders, which is not dependant on religion,

HogTrash
10-28-2009, 01:22 PM
Pure tosh, it is nothing to do with religion, otherwise surly I, having been brought up in a house with no religion, and not chosing to be religious, should be as you discribe above,
and yet i also know plenty of familys who are religioius, and i've been to parties with their christain children and watched in mild disgust as they get drunk and high and what not,

The Key is respect for ones elders, which is not dependant on religion,You are speaking of individuals and small groups and yes there are exceptions to every rule and some people are blessed with better parents and social conditions than others...Being young, you have very little to make comparisons to.

I am referring to a change that took place on a much larger scale and involved many different things that were a direct result of the war on religion like tv, movies, music and video games etc...When religion dissapeared, so did morality.

Unlike you, I witnessed these changes...I was there during the transition period...In fact I was part of it and I must take responsibility for my part...I was young too and believed these changes were good and certainly much more fun.

Trigg
10-28-2009, 02:08 PM
Indeed, sorry for not replying fully,

Yes i believe they should grow up in a religious vacuum, but not a moral one.

I know that many of the teachings of Chirst are good moral ones, as there are also good moral stories in Buddhism, Islam, Hindu ect ect.

I chose the analogy of racists because it is so obviously left-of-field, you could easily put an number of titles in its space and it would mean the same thing,

and my thanks for your suggestion but i shall not be reading the NT, because while i'm sure it may conform to many of my moral beliefs, i do not need the promise of an afterlife, or the need for salvation to lead it.

How would you suggest parents do this exactly?

If parents go to church/synagogue/etc are they supposed to lock the little ones in a closet until they get home, since it's cruel to bring them to church and subject them to brainwashing?????

Noir
10-28-2009, 02:20 PM
How would you suggest parents do this exactly?

If parents go to church/synagogue/etc are they supposed to lock the little ones in a closet until they get home, since it's cruel to bring them to church and subject them to brainwashing?????

I'm sure the parents have free time, like when the kids are at school, or while their child is at anothers house ect, and whenever a child is 10 or so then they can cope fine by themselves for a few hours,

Trigg
10-28-2009, 02:36 PM
The implication being that these children are brain-washed on a day to day basis, yet it is deemed accepptable as is in the name of religion,

You seem to be on a roll these days.

Everyone who eats meat is a murderer.

Everyone who takes their children to church is brainwashing them.


interresting

Noir
10-28-2009, 02:54 PM
You seem to be on a roll these days.

Everyone who eats meat is a murderer.

Everyone who takes their children to church is brainwashing them.


interresting

I have thought that meat eaters are murderers for a long time, i just don't really talk about it unless questioned.

The church/brainwashing idea is still a new one to me, which has been brought about by the study of 'the selfish gene' in my politics classes, this topic was merely a dip to test the water on a subject which i do not yet truly understand,

Kathianne
10-28-2009, 02:59 PM
I have thought that meat eaters are murderers for a long time, i just don't really talk about it unless questioned.

The church/brainwashing idea is still a new one to me, which has been brought about by the study of 'the selfish gene' in my politics classes, this topic was merely a dip to test the water on a subject which i do not yet truly understand,

Actually I believe parents have a duty to inculcate their children in their beliefs. Not to brainwash, rather to provide scaffolding that the child may use to provide security when young and a basis for questioning as they mature. Of course it's easy to criticize church membership, as they are people for the most part who wish to do what is right. On the other hand, parents with prejudices, addictions, and other anti-social behaviors pass these onto their children also. I'm much more concerned about those legacies than religious upbringing.

Trigg
10-28-2009, 03:21 PM
I have thought that meat eaters are murderers for a long time, i just don't really talk about it unless questioned.

The church/brainwashing idea is still a new one to me, which has been brought about by the study of 'the selfish gene' in my politics classes, this topic was merely a dip to test the water on a subject which i do not yet truly understand,

It is a parents job to bring their children up to become good people. Children will not learn morals by themselves they need to be shown. They will devope "good morals" or "bad morals" depending on what they see and are raised with.

Your morals arn't someone elses, but I assume you consider your morals good and right. Would you consider raising your children with your morals "brainwashing" them?

Noir
10-28-2009, 03:41 PM
It is a parents job to bring their children up to become good people. Children will not learn morals by themselves they need to be shown. They will devope "good morals" or "bad morals" depending on what they see and are raised with.

Your morals arn't someone elses, but I assume you consider your morals good and right. Would you consider raising your children with your morals "brainwashing" them?

Nothing wrong with passing on morals, wheather they come from Jesus or Buddha ect, many religious figures have good morals within them, however, teaching the religion i.e. (for christains) Turning water to wine, God creating the universe, if you are not a christain you go to hell ect do not need to be taught, why can you not pass on morals without passing on faith?

Trigg
10-28-2009, 03:51 PM
Nothing wrong with passing on morals, wheather they come from Jesus or Buddha ect, many religious figures have good morals within them, however, teaching the religion i.e. (for christains) Turning water to wine, God creating the universe, if you are not a christain you go to hell ect do not need to be taught, why can you not pass on morals without passing on faith?

Actually I think you can pass on morals without passing on faith. I don't think you need religion in order to be a good person.

However, I completely disagree that passing on faith is brainwashing anymore than I believe that passing on PERSONAL morals is brainwashing.

Noir
10-28-2009, 03:57 PM
Nothing wrong with passing on morals, wheather they come from Jesus or Buddha ect, many religious figures have good morals within them, however, teaching the religion i.e. (for christains) Turning water to wine, God creating the universe, if you are not a christain you go to hell ect do not need to be taught, why can you not pass on morals without passing on faith?

Actually I think you can pass on morals without passing on faith. I don't think you need religion in order to be a good person.

However, I completely disagree that passing on faith is brainwashing anymore than I believe that passing on PERSONAL morals is brainwashing.

Well in this respect we disagree and will never sway the other on way or another.

Trigg
10-28-2009, 04:03 PM
Well in this respect we disagree and will never sway the other on way or another.

so at 4:00 you were asking this question and hadn't made your mind up.


The church/brainwashing idea is still a new one to me, which has been brought about by the study of 'the selfish gene' in my politics classes, this topic was merely a dip to test the water on a subject which i do not yet truly understand,

An hour later "we disagree and will never sway one way or the other"



Allrighy then. Kind of makes me wonder how you jumped from asking a question about brainwashing to your current stance in the space on ONE HOUR.

Noir
10-28-2009, 04:20 PM
so at 4:00 you were asking this question and hadn't made your mind up.

An hour later "we disagree and will never sway one way or the other"

Allrighy then. Kind of makes me wonder how you jumped from asking a question about brainwashing to your current stance in the space on ONE HOUR.

No, i had made up my mind when i posted earlyer, however, as it is a new concept to me (by new i mean about a month old) i am still formulating what i think into words, this will likly take a long time, this topic is my first ever discussion on the issue, testing what sort of responses i get, and thus helping me to make pro-active rather than re-active arguments of this nature in the future,

However, i do see how you have read my posts and thought that i went from unsure to certain in an hour, this was through poor communication on my part, sorry for that.

SassyLady
10-28-2009, 04:23 PM
I have thought that meat eaters are murderers for a long time, i just don't really talk about it unless questioned.

The church/brainwashing idea is still a new one to me, which has been brought about by the study of 'the selfish gene' in my politics classes, this topic was merely a dip to test the water on a subject which i do not yet truly understand,

I can understand that you don't eat meat because you feel that animals are murdered for their flesh. Do you also choose to not wear leather shoes? or anything made from animals? No leather briefcase, gloves, coat, etc.? Because to wear anything made from animal hide means that animal was murdered.

As for the brainwashing..........everytime anyone opens their mouth and says anything.....whether it is your parents, your relatives, your friends and neighbors, your teachers, the television, the radio, movies, books, mags, newspapers, and on and on.............all of it is brainwashing. Tell me Noir, how do your propose to keep your children from being brainwashed? You already have been so anything you say or do will brainwash them..............brainwashing is not limited to religion.

Kathianne
10-28-2009, 04:28 PM
I can understand that you don't eat meat because you feel that animals are murdered for their flesh. Do you also choose to not wear leather shoes? or anything made from animals? No leather briefcase, gloves, coat, etc.? Because to wear anything made from animal hide means that animal was murdered.

As for the brainwashing..........everytime anyone opens their mouth and says anything.....whether it is your parents, your relatives, your friends and neighbors, your teachers, the television, the radio, movies, books, mags, newspapers, and on and on.............all of it is brainwashing. Tell me Noir, how do your propose to keep your children from being brainwashed? You already have been so anything you say or do will brainwash them..............brainwashing is not limited to religion.

I agree. Who is to say that one should say, "Please and Thank You?" Why? That one should cover their mouth when coughing, sneezing, or yawning? That one should not run around without clothes, especially in warm weather?

Granted there are a myriad of religions in many countries, but with that said, seems to me that parents are charged with passing down their religious beliefs, as much as their ideas on acceptable behaviors in general. Very much like ancient people handed down the stories of Gilgamesh or the gods coming down the steps of the ziggurats.

Trigg
10-28-2009, 04:28 PM
No, i had made up my mind when i posted earlyer, however, as it is a new concept to me (by new i mean about a month old) i am still formulating what i think into words, this will likly take a long time, this topic is my first ever discussion on the issue, testing what sort of responses i get, and thus helping me to make pro-active rather than re-active arguments of this nature in the future,

However, i do see how you have read my posts and thought that i went from unsure to certain in an hour, this was through poor communication on my part, sorry for that.

Well that makes more sense.

Although I still don't see how passing on morals like abortion and vegetarianism and passing on ones religious beliefs are brainwashing.

They are either both brainwashing or they both aren't. I don't see how one can be and the other not be.

Your young and you don't have children, I'm sure when you do you will talk about your beliefs. That's not brainwashing, that's parenting and communication.

Noir
10-28-2009, 04:34 PM
I can understand that you don't eat meat because you feel that animals are murdered for their flesh. Do you also choose to not wear leather shoes? or anything made from animals? No leather briefcase, gloves, coat, etc.? Because to wear anything made from animal hide means that animal was murdered.

As for the brainwashing..........everytime anyone opens their mouth and says anything.....whether it is your parents, your relatives, your friends and neighbors, your teachers, the television, the radio, movies, books, mags, newspapers, and on and on.............all of it is brainwashing. Tell me Noir, how do your propose to keep your children from being brainwashed? You already have been so anything you say or do will brainwash them..............brainwashing is not limited to religion.

As i have said before, though i assume you have not seen, i do not eat animal flesh, nor do i wear it. One of the few times i nearly swore infront of my dad was when he bought me a snake-skin watch, i was able to hold back and express those words with a look though,

I can only do what i can do, ofcourse other outlets, like the media, school, friends ect will do their best to influence as much as possible, but that is really beond my control, however were i do have control i.e. In my parenting, respect is the key and everything else is for them to decide, whether its chosing to follow a religion, eating meat, views on abortion ect,

Noir
10-28-2009, 04:39 PM
Well that makes more sense.

Although I still don't see how passing on morals like abortion and vegetarianism and passing on ones religious beliefs are brainwashing.

They are either both brainwashing or they both aren't. I don't see how one can be and the other not be.

Your young and you don't have children, I'm sure when you do you will talk about your beliefs. That's not brainwashing, that's parenting and communication.

I mean to pass on morals like being respectful of others, choices about abortion and vegetarianism will be their choice, if i chose to force such ideas on them then i would be as bad as those i'm speaking out against.

The age card is not one i can overcome,

SassyLady
10-28-2009, 04:44 PM
As i have said before, though i assume you have not seen, i do not eat animal flesh, nor do i wear it. One of the few times i nearly swore infront of my dad was when he bought me a snake-skin watch, i was able to hold back and express those words with a look though,

I admire your commitment to your belief. If this belief did not come from your parents......who brainwashed you about murdering animals?




I can only do what i can do, ofcourse other outlets, like the media, school, friends ect will do their best to influence as much as possible, but that is really beond my control, however were i do have control i.e. In my parenting, respect is the key and everything else is for them to decide, whether its chosing to follow a religion, eating meat, views on abortion ect,

In some cultures, attending and believing the same religious beliefs of one's parents is showing respect. Who defines what "respect" encompasses and what it doesn't.

Noir
10-28-2009, 04:52 PM
I admire your commitment to your belief. If this belief did not come from your parents......who brainwashed you about murdering animals?

No one brainwashed me about murdering animals, the thought just happened upon me one night, my dog went through a period of depression, the reason of which i will never know, he would just sit for hours, doing nothing, he went off his food and didn't enjoy going for walks as he use to,

It was during that time i realized just how human like animals are, this lead on to thinking about killing them to eat, and sure enough i decided from then on not to eat meat (which i really didn't do much of anyway as i don't like the taste of beef, pork, turkey ect) it was only really chicken and white fish that i needed to give up and go veggie as i did,



In some cultures, attending and believing the same religious beliefs of one's parents is showing respect. Who defines what "respect" encompasses and what it doesn't.

Indeedy that is an example of blackmail, were a child is made to beleive that in not believing their parents Religion will bring shame upon themselves and the family, oh so much to put on those so young.

Missileman
10-28-2009, 08:05 PM
Since your only interest is to mock and ridicule Christianity at every opportunity with no real interest in an honest discussion I hesitate to ask, but what in particular are you in reference too?

You said your kids believe in Christ and I assume they also attend a Christian church, yet you say they aren't Christians. Well I'm reasonably sure, that your kids aren't Muslim, Bhuddist, Jewish, or Hindi.

I am referring of course to the extra hoop that you have jumped through that you think makes you a "real" Christian and makes others, including your own kids just a bunch of lower lifeforms.