If Atheism is so "right on" then....

[-Cp]

you ever notice..

When it comes to the idea of "Atheism" that atheists are NEVER saught after in moments of tragedy? they ALWAYS seek out religous leaders / chaplains etc..

I can't recall hearing about ANYTIME someone about to die on death row cried out to the "god of self".... or anyone in serious emotional trauma... or about to die in a plane wreck.. etc...

I'd LOVE to hear from dp's self-professed "godless ones" why that is.... :)

[Missileman]

you ever notice..

When it comes to the idea of "Atheism" that atheists are NEVER saught after in moments of tragedy? they ALWAYS seek out religous leaders / chaplains etc..

I can't recall hearing about ANYTIME someone about to die on death row cried out to the "god of self".... or anyone in serious emotional trauma... or about to die in a plane wreck.. etc...

I'd LOVE to hear from dp's self-professed "godless ones" why that is.... :)

The answer is as plain as the nose on your face. Why would a person who doesn't believe in a deity make an appeal to one? You don't hear Christians calling out for Santa Claus when the shit hits the fan, do you?

[Nuc]

Religion is personal and should remain that way. Instead of whining about others' lack of religion you should be practicing yours to the letter.

[darin]

You've both misses his point, which I take as this:

When faced with hardships and disaster and Fear, the Vast majority of folk cry-out for God, or to God. Even athiests, perhaps? :)

[-Cp]

Religion is personal and should remain that way. Instead of whining about others' lack of religion you should be practicing yours to the letter.

Who's "whining"? And by making this post I AM practicing my belief in God....

[loosecannon]

You've both misses his point, which I take as this:

When faced with hardships and disaster and Fear, the Vast majority of folk cry-out for God, or to God. Even athiests, perhaps? :)


That is because man created God in his own image.

[Nuc]

You've both misses his point, which I take as this:

When faced with hardships and disaster and Fear, the Vast majority of folk cry-out for God, or to God. Even athiests, perhaps? :)

Like for example Cat Stevens was drowning and he called out to God, saying he would work in His name if Stevens was saved. So he became a Muslim, changed his name, and called for Salman Rushdie to be assassinated. Religion is wonderful!

[Dilloduck]

That is because man created God in his own image.

How illogical is that? God is not portayed as selfish, scared, stupid, impotant, little wimp.

[-Cp]

How illogical is that? God is not portayed as selfish, scared, stupid, impotant, little wimp.

Uhh.. it's not illogical.. God DID create man and woman in his own image:

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

[Nuc]

Uhh.. it's not illogical.. God DID create man and woman in his own image:

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

He said "Man created God in his own image". Not the reverse. Actually man has created innumerable gods over time, some in his image, some ridiculous ones like a man with the head of an elephant.

[darin]

Like for example Cat Stevens was drowning and he called out to God, saying he would work in His name if Stevens was saved. So he became a Muslim, changed his name, and called for Salman Rushdie to be assassinated. Religion is wonderful!

You lost me there. Islam is fake. God is REAL.

[-Cp]

That is because man created God in his own image.

My bad... misread that... was actually about to agree w/ you :P

Now I know why you have negative rep....

[-Cp]

You lost me there. Islam is fake. God is REAL.

Actually Islam stems from the bastard child of Abraham.... you could say it's a gross "bastardization" of scripture... ;)

[Nuc]

You lost me there. Islam is fake. God is REAL.

Islam, Christianity and Judaism (including all their warring subsects and mini denominations, cults and so on) all worship the same god in different ways. Monotheism 101.

The fact that you can't get 10 "believers" to agree on what God is and how to worship it proves that either their all worshipping the same god or they're all worshipping different gods. Which one is it? Even Christians, Jews and Muslims can't agree amongst themselves to the point that they're willing to kill each other over it.

They are all desert religions created by people who have been fighting over this crap for millenia. They're the same.

[-Cp]

Funny that none of them will answer the original question.... :)

Why? Cause they have no answers... what a shock..

[avatar4321]

Funny that none of them will answer the original question.... :)

Why? Cause they have no answers... what a shock..

It's because athiests don't have the answers. Some don't even pretend to, but then some arrogantly assume they do. I've always found it really funny. You claim to have absolutely no experience with the divine and try to lecture people who have? its like someone who doesnt know calculus saying it's just mumbo jumbo and that the mathmatician is lying about being able to know anything from it. I mean logically who should we listen to? The person who claims no experience, or the person who has experience?

[loosecannon]

How illogical is that? God is not portayed as selfish, scared, stupid, impotant, little wimp.

Well it isn't an original idea, but God is portrayed as vengeful, demanding, judgemental, often cruel, wishing death upon his subjects, inspiring wars, being wishy washy and impatient.

His portrayed lust for blood sacrifice is also noteworthy.

That is the biblical God.

[loosecannon]

He said "Man created God in his own image". Not the reverse. Actually man has created innumerable gods over time, some in his image, some ridiculous ones like a man with the head of an elephant.


Thanks nuc, you are a rare voice of reason on this board

[loosecannon]

You lost me there. Islam is fake. God is REAL.

Islam follows the same god that christians do, it relies on several same holy books and has it's roots in the same ideologies.

Christianity and Islam are brothers.

[GW in Ohio]

That is because man created God in his own image.

Here's the good news.....

There most definitely is a God.

Now here's the bad news for those who cry out to God in times of trouble (or when they want something).....

God doesn't micromanage the creation. When you're faced with a life-threatening situation, or you're about to lose your job, or your marriage, or your stock portfolio, you're on your own.

So suck it up and take responsibility

[loosecannon]

It's because athiests don't have the answers. Some don't even pretend to, but then some arrogantly assume they do. I've always found it really funny. You claim to have absolutely no experience with the divine and try to lecture people who have? its like someone who doesnt know calculus saying it's just mumbo jumbo and that the mathmatician is lying about being able to know anything from it. I mean logically who should we listen to? The person who claims no experience, or the person who has experience?

Any claim to having more experience with God than somebody else is just ignorance and arrogance.

This is the most remedial theme in human history.

My God is bigger than your God.

My God real, your God not real.

Suit yourself but it marks the entrance into rational thought to be able to escape those silly traps.

[manu1959]

Any claim to having more experience with God than somebody else is just ignorance and arrogance.

This is the most remedial theme in human history.

My God is bigger than your God.

My God real, your God not real.

Suit yourself but it marks the entrance into rational thought to be able to escape those silly traps.

uh....didn't just argue your "non-god" is bigger?

[loosecannon]

uh....didn't just argue your "non-god" is bigger?


No.

[manu1959]

No.

yes.....yes you did....

your nongod says "Suit yourself but it marks the entrance into rational thought to be able to escape those silly traps."

[-Cp]

God doesn't micromanage the creation.

Really? And how'd you arrive at that conclusion?

[GW in Ohio]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GW in Ohio
God doesn't micromanage the creation.


Really? And how'd you arrive at that conclusion?

Well, I didn't read it in the Bible, that's for sure. That conclusion is based on a reading of history, personal experience, and it's also based on several lunches I've had with God.

By the way, God is a woman.....an pleasant middle-aged woman who wears business suits, likes good food and wine and the odd martini, and thinks Pat Robertson is a jackass.

[-Cp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GW in Ohio
God doesn't micromanage the creation.



Well, I didn't read it in the Bible, that's for sure. That conclusion is based on a reading of history, personal experience, and it's also based on several lunches I've had with God.

By the way, God is a woman.....an pleasant middle-aged woman who wears business suits, likes good food and wine and the odd martini, and thinks Pat Robertson is a jackass.


I.e. you pulled it outta your ass... okay.. just making sure...

[GW in Ohio]

I.e. you pulled it outta your ass... okay.. just making sure...

Well, hold on there, baba-looey.....

If you disagree with me, why don't you go ahead and tell us why you think God micromanages the creation?

And if your response is a quote from the Bible about, "Consider the lilies of the field......."

You lose.

[loosecannon]

yes.....yes you did....

your nongod says "Suit yourself but it marks the entrance into rational thought to be able to escape those silly traps."

No that is not what I said, that is what YOU said.

[-Cp]

Well, hold on there, baba-looey.....

If you disagree with me, why don't you go ahead and tell us why you think God micromanages the creation?

And if your response is a quote from the Bible about, "Consider the lilies of the field......."

You lose.

Not at all - just making sure (like most arguements you post) - that you have no way of actually backing your claims...

[manu1959]

No that is not what I said, that is what YOU said.

nope.... you said your non-god (rational thought) could help people avoid silly traps....thus your non-god is bigger than their irrational gods ....

[GW in Ohio]

Not at all - just making sure (like most arguements you post) - that you have no way of actually backing your claims...

When it comes to God, we're all just speculating, aren't we?

[manu1959]

When it comes to God, we're all just speculating, aren't we?

nope...tis not speculation for some

[loosecannon]

nope.... you said your non-god (rational thought) could help people avoid silly traps....thus your non-god is bigger than their irrational gods ....

NOPE i said that not playing the game of "my God is bigger than your God" could open the door to rational thought.

YOU said what YOU said. I didn't.

[loosecannon]

nope...tis not speculation for some

Let me guess, is it hallucination?

[manu1959]

Let me guess, is it hallucination?

nope....belivers don't speculate....same as non-belivers...they are both sure

[manu1959]

NOPE i said that not playing the game of "my God is bigger than your God" could open the door to rational thought.

YOU said what YOU said. I didn't.

as you just said again rational thought is the bigger god ...like i said you are playing the same game...

[avatar4321]

When it comes to God, we're all just speculating, aren't we?

Not at all. You see, God can reveal His will to those who seek it. When the Spirit speaks, there is no speculating. Thing is there are way too many people who simply declare you cant know, put no effort into it, and therefore never do know.

[avatar4321]

Let me guess, is it hallucination?

Thank you for emphasizing my point of how some refuse to learn to try to learn.

[Roomy]

you ever notice..

When it comes to the idea of "Atheism" that atheists are NEVER saught after in moments of tragedy? they ALWAYS seek out religous leaders / chaplains etc..

I can't recall hearing about ANYTIME someone about to die on death row cried out to the "god of self".... or anyone in serious emotional trauma... or about to die in a plane wreck.. etc...

I'd LOVE to hear from dp's self-professed "godless ones" why that is.... :)

I have never sought the help of a religous leader..

and which athiests do you recall crying out to god when faced with death? and if by chance you can name some answer me this......What harm did it do?

[Nuc]

If God exists I beseech Her to close this thread!

[Missileman]

Not at all. You see, God can reveal His will to those who seek it. When the Spirit speaks, there is no speculating. Thing is there are way too many people who simply declare you cant know, put no effort into it, and therefore never do know.

And you don't see the pitfall in your argument that an effort must be made? How much effort does someone have to put forth before they can state "there is no god" without speculating?

[avatar4321]

And you don't see the pitfall in your argument that an effort must be made? How much effort does someone have to put forth before they can state "there is no god" without speculating?

That is the fatal flaw with their position. They can't know that there is no God unless they themselves were God.

[-Cp]

To all non-believers in God:

The evidence we have seen of him in our lives trumps your opinion about whether or not he exists.

[Missileman]

That is the fatal flaw with their position. They can't know that there is no God unless they themselves were God.

Fatal or not, it's the same flaw shared by those who claim they know there is a God. It all boils down to belief.

[Powerman]

Funny that none of them will answer the original question.... :)

Why? Cause they have no answers... what a shock..

The question was already answered. I can't see any logical reason why a theist would want the company of some random atheist at the hour of their death but if they'd like to be in the company of a holy person then that's their right. And if an atheist is dying, then I suppose there wouldn't be much point in them seeking out the company of a random atheist either would there? The question is silly because the answer is obvious.

[Pale Rider]

Here's the good news.....

There most definitely is a God.

Now here's the bad news for those who cry out to God in times of trouble (or when they want something).....

God doesn't micromanage the creation. When you're faced with a life-threatening situation, or you're about to lose your job, or your marriage, or your stock portfolio, you're on your own.

So suck it up and take responsibility

Well... not exactly. King James Edition, Romans 10, "12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

[LOki]

Funny that none of them will answer the original question.... :)

Why? Cause they have no answers... what a shock..I'll bite.


you ever notice..

When it comes to the idea of "Atheism" that atheists are NEVER saught after in moments of tragedy? they ALWAYS seek out religous leaders / chaplains etc..

I can't recall hearing about ANYTIME someone about to die on death row cried out to the "god of self".... or anyone in serious emotional trauma... or about to die in a plane wreck.. etc...

I'd LOVE to hear from dp's self-professed "godless ones" why that is.... :)The question asserts a premise to which no answer applies. Atheists do not always seek out religous leaders / chaplains etc., in momonts of tragedies, therefore there cannot be a reason why they always would.

[diuretic]

First a personal reflection. I've only faced death a small number of times. A couple of times I relied on myself to resolve it, the last time I was at the mercy of medical care and came through. I don't recall asking for a god to help me out. When it's come to personal losses I haven't asked for a god to help me either.

Secondly, if someone was brought up as an atheist (I wasn't) then, I'm thinking as an adult, they wouldn't invoke a god in times of personal emergency or distress. I think if someone was brought up believing in a religion then they would quite naturally seek the help of their deity.

Yes, there really are atheists in foxholes, Virginia.

[Doniston]

The question was already answered. I can't see any logical reason why a theist would want the company of some random atheist at the hour of their death but if they'd like to be in the company of a holy person then that's their right. And if an atheist is dying, then I suppose there wouldn't be much point in them seeking out the company of a random atheist either would there? The question is silly because the answer is obvious. i beleive you are speaking in circles. why wouldn't an atheist person still want the company of anothe r when dying, or at times of stress???