Rachel Maddow - "This is Cracking Heads Time"

[red states rule]

Republican fillibuster? Dems have 60 votes in the Senate so Republicnas can't block anything

And she is all for changing the rules of Senate to ram Obamacare thru, despite what the voters want


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[CSM]

Wait a minute here...if they can raise funds to hold these "free health clinics" without the government barging in, why can't they do that all the time? Also, if they are "free" why do they need funds? Oh I know...lots of OTHER peoples time and money (in this case willingly donated?) as opposed to forced donations.

[red states rule]

Wait a minute here...if they can raise funds to hold these "free health clinics" without the government barging in, why can't they do that all the time? Also, if they are "free" why do they need funds? Oh I know...lots of OTHER peoples time and money (in this case willingly donated?) as opposed to forced donations.

It is the Chicago way of doing things CSM

If you can't get people to support your ideas and policies on their merit, just start busting heads and forcing people to do it your way.

[Joe Steel]

Republican fillibuster? Dems have 60 votes in the Senate so Republicnas can't block anything

And she is all for changing the rules of Senate to ram Obamacare thru, despite what the voters want

The voters want a public option. Why are the Republicans blocking it? Shouldn't we crack some heads to give the voters what they want?

[red states rule]

The voters want a public option. Why are the Republicans blocking it? Shouldn't we crack some heads to give the voters what they want?

1) Polls show Obamacare is NOT supported by the voters

Health Care Reform
44% Favor Health Care Reform, 50% Oppose

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

2) With 60 Dem votes in the Senate, how are Republicans blocking Obamacare?

[CSM]

The only "crack" around this administration is the crack they are smoking!

[red states rule]

The only "crack" around this administration is the crack they are smoking!

and the one Joe and his buddies are kissing

[Joe Steel]

1) Polls show Obamacare is NOT supported by the voters

Americans want a public option.


Including a government-run insurance option -- the most controversial part of the debate -- is supported by a nearly two-to-one margin, 61%-34%.

Quinnipiac: Most Americans Support Public Option (http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/10/08/quinnipiac-most-americans-support-public-option/)

Why won't the Republicans do what the People want?

[red states rule]

Americans want a public option.



Why won't the Republicans do what the People want?

OK you are ducking the questions.. Situation normal

Health Care Reform

44% Favor Health Care Reform, 50% Oppose

Monday, October 12, 2009

Forty-four percent (44%) of voters nationwide now favor the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s little changed from a week ago. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 50% are opposed to the plan.

The numbers have been remarkably stable throughout the debate. Currently, 23% Strongly Favor the legislative effort and 39% are Strongly Opposed.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform


and Joe read slowly

How can Republicans block anything in the Senate with 60 DEMOCRAT VOTES?

[Joe Steel]

How can Republicans block anything in the Senate with 60 DEMOCRAT VOTES?

A public option would eliminate the need for any other reform. It would make the insurance companies honest. They would have to give the American People good health insurance at fair prices. That's what the American People want. Everything else is just rerigging a bad system and the American People know it. They don't want it rerigged. They want to be able to opt-out by choosing a public option.

Read slowly.

How can anyone, Republican or Democrat, ignore the needs of the American People and their stated wish for a public option?

[Insein]

A public option would eliminate the need for any other reform. It would make the insurance companies honest. They would have to give the American People good health insurance at fair prices. That's what the American People want. Everything else is just rerigging a bad system and the American People know it. They don't want it rerigged. They want to be able to opt-out by choosing a public option.

Read slowly.

How can anyone, Republican or Democrat, ignore the needs of the American People and their stated wish for a public option?

Man, you sure are flexible.

[red states rule]

A public option would eliminate the need for any other reform. It would make the insurance companies honest. They would have to give the American People good health insurance at fair prices. That's what the American People want. Everything else is just rerigging a bad system and the American People know it. They don't want it rerigged. They want to be able to opt-out by choosing a public option.

Read slowly.

How can anyone, Republican or Democrat, ignore the needs of the American People and their stated wish for a public option?

Did you "pverlook" this Joe?

Health Care Reform

44% Favor Health Care Reform, 50% Oppose

Monday, October 12, 2009

Forty-four percent (44%) of voters nationwide now favor the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s little changed from a week ago. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 50% are opposed to the plan.

The numbers have been remarkably stable throughout the debate. Currently, 23% Strongly Favor the legislative effort and 39% are Strongly Opposed.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...th_care_reform

It is not Republicans who are blocking Obamacare - it is Dems

They see the cost of ins will rise, care will be rationed, and the government can't afford it

[Joe Steel]

Did you "pverlook" this Joe?

Forty-four percent (44%) of voters nationwide now favor the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s little changed from a week ago. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 50% are opposed to the plan.

The numbers have been remarkably stable throughout the debate. Currently, 23% Strongly Favor the legislative effort and 39% are Strongly Opposed.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...th_care_reform

It is not Republicans who are blocking Obamacare - it is Dems

They see the cost of ins will rise, care will be rationed, and the government can't afford it

No. I didn't overlook it. That's why I posted:


How can anyone, Republican or Democrat, ignore the needs of the American People and their stated wish for a public option?

It's also why Rachel Maddow made her report. She knows some Democrats are conspiring with Republicans to deny Americans the health care they deserve. Their outrageous betrayal of public trust deserves extreme punishment.

[CSM]

...

Their outrageous betrayal of public trust deserves extreme punishment....


LOL...maybe we can get the UN to send them a strongly worded letter! Perhaps we can get Pelosi to give them a disapproving look, too!

[Insein]

No. I didn't overlook it. That's why I posted:



It's also why Rachel Maddow made her report. She knows some Democrats are conspiring with Republicans to deny Americans the health care they deserve. Their outrageous betrayal of public trust deserves extreme punishment.

So, despite the poll numbers shown to you that states that a majority of Americans DO NOT want "the health care they deserve" and would rather keep the health care they have, you state that you didn't overlook that and are declaring that you know what the American people want?

Plus, why is it that you and Rachel Maddow think so little of us Americans to think we "deserve" such a terrible healthcare plan?

[Trigg]

No. I didn't overlook it. That's why I posted:



It's also why Rachel Maddow made her report. She knows some Democrats are conspiring with Republicans to deny Americans the health care they deserve. Their outrageous betrayal of public trust deserves extreme punishment.

:tinfoil: You know why their doing that don't you????????? they aren't really Democrats, they've only infiltrated them. They're really republicans in disguise, sneaky sob's.

[Joe Steel]

So, despite the poll numbers shown to you that states that a majority of Americans DO NOT want "the health care they deserve" and would rather keep the health care they have, you state that you didn't overlook that and are declaring that you know what the American people want?

Plus, why is it that you and Rachel Maddow think so little of us Americans to think we "deserve" such a terrible healthcare plan?

Virtually every poll taken in recent months shows an overwhelming majority of Americans want the public option. It's the lack of a public option which is driving the bad polling for health care reform.

[Joe Steel]

:tinfoil: You know why their doing that don't you????????? they aren't really Democrats, they've only infiltrated them. They're really republicans in disguise, sneaky sob's.

Sure, they're conservative Democrats. To me, they're not much better than Republicans.

[crin63]

LOL...maybe we can get the UN to send them a strongly worded letter! Perhaps we can get Pelosi to give them a disapproving look, too!

Maybe we could get some more faux-tears from the queen of darkness Pelosi as well.

The reason our health care prices are high is because the government created monopolies called HMO's & PPO's. Had government stayed out of the insurance industry like they should have prices would be lower from competition.

[red states rule]

Virtually every poll taken in recent months shows an overwhelming majority of Americans want the public option. It's the lack of a public option which is driving the bad polling for health care reform.

Joe where the hell do you get your facts from - the Democrat Underground?

Here is another link that shows people REJECT the public option

Friday October 2, 2009
The public doesn't want 'public option'
Smaller fixes would make health care more available, less expensive

There is much to be admired in Sen. Jay Rockefeller's continued pursuit of a government-run health insurance program to compete with the 1,300 private health insurance plans nationally.

But the fact remains that most voters oppose the public option. The Rasmussen Poll of voters showed only 41 percent support the plan of President Obama and congressional Democrats, while 56 percent are opposed.

Rockefeller should listen to the people.

More than 200 million Americans now have private insurance and poll after poll shows that more than 80 percent are satisfied with their private insurance.

Congress should use private health insurance as the platform and not create a whole new entitlement - especially when Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare are running at deficits

http://dailymail.com/Opinion/Editorials/200910010117

I posted this for BP - who quickly away - showing Republicans offered common sense fixes for the issues facing health care ins. Dems rejected them because they are NOT interested in lower the cost of health in, or making it easier to get

Dems want to control it, and have more power over people

So tell me what is wrong with these ideas IF your intention is to make ins more affordable for people

Keeping a Bad Bill Bad: Democratic Leaders Block 31 Common-Sense Changes to Health Care Bill

Dems Block GOP Amendments to Scrap Government Takeover of Health Care, Stop Job-Killing Employer Mandate and Small Business Tax

Washington, Jul 28 - The Democratic leadership in Congress appears determined to produce a costly, job-killing health care bill that few outside the Washington Beltway support. For evidence, one need only look at the long list of common-sense changes House Republicans proposed this month while the bill was being considered by the Ways & Means, Energy & Commerce, and Education & Labor Committees. These amendments, which were designed to make the health care bill more palatable to the American people, were unceremoniously crushed by Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and her committee chairmen with little public attention or debate. Here are 31 common-sense health care amendments that were offered by Republican legislators in committee, but killed by the Democratic leadership:

- Stop the government-run health plan. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) offered an amendment to improve the Democratic legislation by taking out the section of the bill that would create a government-run health plan to compete with private sector health plans. Reps. Phil Roe (R-TN) and John Kline (R-MN) offered similar amendments in the Education & Labor Committee. The GOP amendments were all killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and her chairmen.

- Prevent bureaucrats from making personal medical decisions for patients. Rep. Phil Gingrey, M.D. (R-GA) offered an amendment in the Energy & Commerce Committee to bar federal political appointees and bureaucrats from intervening in patient treatment decisions. The Gingrey amendment would have ensured patients and doctors remain as the sole individuals responsible for making these critical decisions. Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) led Democrats in opposition to the amendment, which was defeated.

- Require all Members of Congress to get their health insurance through the proposed government-run plan. Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV) offered an amendment in the Ways & Means Committee that would have required Members of Congress to enroll immediately in the government-run health plan that would be established under the Democratic bill. Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) offered an amendment to put his committee on the record in support of enrolling Members of Congress in the government-run plan as well. While the Wilson amendment was approved by voice vote in the Education & Labor Committee, the Heller amendment was killed in the Ways & Means Committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.

- Establish a $1 trillion deficit cap. During Energy & Commerce Committee consideration of the Democrats’ government-run health care plan, Rep. Lee Terry (R-NE) offered an amendment to delay “disease prevention” spending for items like municipal jungle gyms and bicycle trails until Washington’s budget deficit dips below $1 trillion. Democrats defeated the amendment, paving the way for more unchecked spending.



- Keep the federal government out of health care decisions. Rep. Wally Herger (R-CA) offered an amendment to prohibit the federal government from conducting so-called comparative effectiveness research, in which the federal government would ultimately help determine which medical treatments are administered to whom in America – otherwise known as government rationing of health care. The Herger amendment was killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel. Days later, in a July 22 prime-time press conference, President Obama told the nation the health care bill “will keep government out of health care decisions,” despite the fact that the comparative effectiveness language remains in the bill.


- Protect Americans from “hurry up and wait.” Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) offered an amendment that would repeal the government-run health plan if wait times exceed the average wait times in private plans. The Brady amendment was killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Stop the job-killing employer mandate. Rep. Sam Johnson (R-TX) offered an amendment in the Committee on Ways & Means to improve the Democratic legislation by taking out the section of the bill that requires American employers to provide health coverage for all of their employees, and Reps. Brett Guthrie (R-KY) and Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA) offered similar amendments in the Committee on Education & Labor. Independent analysts agree this Democratic mandate on employers is likely to result in the elimination of millions of American jobs, and it could hardly come at a worse moment for the nation’s economy. The GOP amendments were killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi.


- Suspend the job-killing employer mandate if the national unemployment rate reaches 10 percent. Reps. Wally Herger (R-CA) and Pete Hoekstra (R-MI) offered amendments in their committees that would suspend the job-killing employer mandate in the Democratic bill if the national unemployment rate reaches or goes above 10 percent. (It is currently at 9.5 percent, with the new number expected to be released on Friday, August 7). The Herger and Hoekstra amendments were killed in both the Ways & Means and Education & Labor Committees at the behest of Speaker Pelosi.


- Waive the employer mandate if it will cause layoffs, worker salary cuts, or reductions in hiring. Rep. Dave Reichert (R-WA) offered an amendment that would waive the employer mandate in the Democrats’ health care bill for any employer who certifies, under procedures developed by the Secretary of the Treasury, that it would pose a financial hardship resulting in layoffs of existing workers, reductions in salary of existing workers, or the inability to expand via hiring new employees. Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) offered a similar amendment in the Education & Labor Committee, and it was adopted by voice vote. However, the Reichert amendment was killed in the Ways & Means Committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Protect employers from unfair taxation. Under the Democratic bill as written, if an employer offers qualifying health care coverage but an employee rejects it for any reason, the employer can still be slapped with an 8 percent tax on the value of that employee’s wages as a result of the job-killing employer mandate in the bill. Rep. Geoff Davis (R-KY) offered an amendment to fix this problem and protect employers from such unfair penalization. The Davis amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Protect employers who offer health care coverage to their workers. As written, the Democratic health care bill would gut ERISA (the Employee Retirement Income Security Act), the federal law that makes it possible for millions of American workers to receive quality health care benefits and other benefits through their employers. Rep. John Kline (R-MN) offered an amendment to fix this flaw and shield employers who offer health care coverage to their workers from being caught up in a web of legal liability systems that would vary from state to state. The Kline amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Create small business health plans. Rep. Howard P. “Buck” McKeon (R-CA) offered an amendment that would modify the Democratic bill to allow the creation of small business health plans (also known as Association Health Plans) that allow trade, industry, professional, or other business associations to form and purchase health care coverage at a lower cost. The McKeon amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Keep unnecessary lawsuits from driving up health costs. Under the Democratic bill, Americans would be required to obtain their health care through a “national health insurance exchange” that is limited to “qualified” providers. In the Ways & Means Committee, Rep. John Linder (R-GA) offered an amendment that would keep the so-called exchange from operating in states that do not have reasonable limits on lawsuits relating to medical care. Unnecessary lawsuits have long been identified as one of the primary factors in rising health costs nationwide. Rep. Glenn Thompson (R-PA) offered a similar amendment in the Education & Labor Committee that would prevent the creation of the so-called “exchange.” Both the Linder and Thompson amendments were killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi.


- Prevent taxpayer-funded health benefits from going to illegal immigrants. Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV) offered an amendment that would increase safeguards to ensure taxpayer-funded benefits do not go to individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States. This amendment, too, was killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Prevent taxpayer funding of abortion. Reps. Sam Johnson (R-TX), Eric Cantor (R-VA) and Mark Souder (R-IN) offered amendments to remove language from the Democratic legislation that would result in American taxpayers subsidizing abortion-on-demand. A recent Zogby survey determined that more than 70 percent of Americans are opposed to taxpayer funding of abortion. Speaker Pelosi and her committee chairmen killed all of these amendments.

- Ensure states are not forced to provide abortion benefits. In the Energy & Commerce Committee, Rep. Nathan Deal (R-GA) offered an amendment to ensure that states are not required to provide coverage for abortion – or even procedures such as Botox injections and hair plugs. Under the Democrats’ legislation, the federal government could deny the states funding if such services are not provided. Democrats rejected Rep. Deal’s amendment in a party-line vote.

- Prevent health care providers from being forced into a government-run plan. Rep. Charles Boustany, M.D. (R-LA), a physician, offered an amendment to prevent American health care providers from being forced into the government-run plan established under the Democratic bill. The Boustany amendment was killed in committee by Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Require the government-run plan to operate under the same rules as private health plans. Rep. Boustany offered an amendment to improve the Democratic legislation by requiring that the government-run plan established in the bill maintain reserves and other margins in amounts consistent with the standards that apply to private plans. Reserves would have to come from premiums, not federal subsidies. This amendment was killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Specify that Congress should read the health care bill before voting on it. Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) offered an amendment expressing the sense of Congress that Members of Congress should read the health care bill before they vote on it. More than 80 House Republicans have signed a pledge vowing they will not vote to enact a health care bill they have not read and which has not been posted online publicly for at least 72 hours. Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD), by contrast, reportedly scoffed at the notion of reading the bill before voting on it. The Brady amendment was defeated in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Keep President Obama’s tax pledge not to raise taxes. Last year, in his campaign for the presidency, President Obama pledged he would not raise taxes on anyone making less than $200,000 ($250,000 for those filing jointly), but the health care legislation written by House Democrats would violate this pledge. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) offered an amendment that would keep the new taxes proposed in the Democratic legislation from applying to those with incomes under $200,000 ($250,000 for those filing jointly). The Ryan amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel. Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA) offered a similar amendment in the Education & Labor Committee. It was not even allowed to come to a vote by Chairman Miller.


- Keep President Obama’s pledge that health care reform will not add to the deficit. Rep. Tom McClintock (R-CA) offered an amendment to prohibit the government-controlled health care system from taking effect unless the legislation is and remains “deficit neutral.” The Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the nonpartisan “scorekeeper” for Congress, has determined that the bill as drafted will add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit. The McClintock amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Ensure that workers who like their current health plan can keep it. Reps. Judy Biggert (R-IL) and Tom Price (R-GA) offered an amendment to ensure that Americans who like their current employer-provided coverage can keep it by shielding such coverage from the costly and complex new mandates in the Democratic health care bill. Under the amendment, employer –based health plans that comply with ERISA (the Employee Retirement Income Security Act), the federal law that makes it possible for millions of American workers to receive quality health care benefits and other benefits through their employers, would be considered as having met all of the mandates specified in the bill. The Biggert-Price amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Ensure Americans cannot be forced into a government-run health care plan. Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite (R-FL) offered an amendment that would prohibit the federal government from automatically enrolling Americans in the government-run health plan that would be created under the Democratic health care bill, allowing Americans to choose whether or not they want to be enrolled in such a plan. The Brown-Waite amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel. Similarly, Rep. John Kline (R-MN) offered an amendment to allow workers to choose to keep their current health care coverage by signing cards stating that they do not want their existing employer-provided coverage to be subject to the new mandates of the Democrats’ health care reform bill. This is modeled in the “card check” method Democratic leaders have advocated in conjunction with Washington-based union bosses. The Kline amendment was defeated at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Stop seniors from being stripped of their health care choices. Rep. Brown-Waite offered an amendment that would remove portions of the Democratic health care bill that would cut the Medicare Advantage program. Such cuts would impact millions of seniors nationwide, taking away their choices and forcing them into a government-run health care plan with fewer options. The Brown-Waite amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Prohibit unfair advantages for government-run health plan. The Democratic health care bill would create a government-run health care plan to “compete” with private sector plans that currently provide health coverage for millions of Americans. House Republican Conference Chairman Mike Pence (R-IN) has warned that a government-run health care plan will compete with private sector health plans “the way an alligator competes with a duck,” and the legislation written by Democrats would allow the government-run health plan to have distinct advantages at the expense of taxpayers and private plan enrollees. Rep. Peter Roskam (R-IL) offered an amendment that would prohibit the Secretary of Health & Human Services from basing payment rates for the government-run health plan established under the Democratic bill on Medicare rates, and instead would require that they pay an average of what private plans in the market pay. The Roskam amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Keep the federal government from choosing “favored” physicians. Rep. Tom Price (R-GA), a physician, offered an amendment to keep eliminate the flawed “tiered” payment structure in the Democratic health care bill, which would give preference to physicians who participate in the government-run health care plan. This provision would allow the government to reward physicians who play by its rules while financially harming those who do not. The Price amendment was defeated at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Allow states to opt out. Bipartisan opposition to the Democratic health care bill has been expressed by governors and state legislators throughout the country. Rep. Price offered an amendment to permit states that have crafted their own health plans to apply for waivers from the Democratic legislation’s requirements. The Price amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Preserve Americans’ health care freedom and choice. Many Americans favor Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), which give individual Americans more direct control over their health care spending, but the Democratic bill as written would wreak havoc on HSAs and similar tools that empower individuals and consumers. Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA) offered an amendment to improve the Democratic bill by ensuring that HSAs would not be shut down or gutted by federal mandates. Specifically, the Cantor amendment stated that HSAs tied to high deductible health plans are deemed to meet the “minimum benefit level requirements” under the Democratic bill, and struck changes to the bill’s “definition of allowable medical expenses” for HSAs and similar accounts. The Cantor amendment was defeated in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel. Rep. Tom Price (R-GA) offered an amendment to provide greater portability and individual control over health care by allowing employers to contribute to “defined contribution” health care plans, which workers could use to purchase the coverage and services of their choice. The Price amendment was defeated in the Education & Labor Committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Allow Americans to continue to enroll in private individual market health plans. Rep. Dave Reichert (R-WA) offered an amendment to repeal the Democratic bill’s prohibition on new enrollees in private individual market plans. This amendment was killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Slow Medicare’s march toward bankruptcy. Concerned about the coming fiscal tsunami that will result from out-of-control spending on entitlement programs, the GOP-led Congress earlier this decade passed legislation specifying that if 45 percent or more of the Medicare program's funding came from general tax revenues for two consecutive years, the President had to submit to Congress legislation that would slow spending and make the program financially stable. Democrats gutted this rule as part of their rules package for the current Congress. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) offered an amendment to restore it. The amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Prohibit new taxes until Medicare fraud rate is reduced to below 1 percent. Rep. Dave Camp (R-MI) offered an amendment to improve the Democratic bill by specifying that the new taxes that would be imposed on Americans under the bill could not take effect unless the fraud rate in Medicare is reduced to below 1 percent of the amount of taxpayer money spent on the program. The Camp amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.

http://my.journaltimes.com/post/AWBC...h_care_re.html

[maineman]

Red.... from your NEW favorite polling site:

"Just 34% of voters nationwide support the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats if the so-called “public option” is removed. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 57% oppose the plan if it doesn't include a government-run health insurance plan to compete with private insurers."

[red states rule]

Red.... from your NEW favorite polling site:

"Just 34% of voters nationwide support the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats if the so-called “public option” is removed. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 57% oppose the plan if it doesn't include a government-run health insurance plan to compete with private insurers."

Sorry Virgil - people do not want the new taxes and government control


Health Care Reform
44% Favor Health Care Reform, 50% Oppose
Monday, October 12, 2009

Forty-four percent (44%) of voters nationwide now favor the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s little changed from a week ago. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 50% are opposed to the plan.

The numbers have been remarkably stable throughout the debate. Currently, 23% Strongly Favor the legislative effort and 39% are Strongly Opposed.

Last week, support for the plan rose to 46%, up five points from a week earlier. With the exception of “bounces” following a couple of nationally televised presidential appearances, it was the first time support for the congressional health care effort had risen.

Rasmussen Reports is tracking support for the plan on a weekly basis.

If the congressional plan passes, 26% of voters say the quality of health care will get better, and 50% say it will get worse. In August, the numbers were 23% better and 50% worse.

Fifty-one percent (51%) say passage of the plan will make the cost of health care go up while 21% say it will make costs go down. In August, 52% thought the plan would lead to higher costs, and just 17% thought it would achieve the stated goal of lowering costs.

The version of the plan working its way through the U.S. Senate now includes a proposal that requires young and healthy Americans to either buy health insurance or pay a $750 annual penalty for not having it. Fifty-five percent (55%) of voters oppose that proposal.

But 59% favor putting a provision in the plan that would prohibit any new taxes, fees or penalties on families who make less than $250,000 a year to pay for the reform initiative.

A Rasmussen video report shows that 53% of those with insurance believe it’s likely they would have to change coverage if the congressional plan becomes law.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

[maineman]

http://www.businessweek.com/blogs/money_politics/archives/2009/09/poll_finds_publ.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/19/opinion/polls/main5098517.shtml

http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=1790

the world outside rasmussen seems to have a different view.

[red states rule]

http://www.businessweek.com/blogs/money_politics/archives/2009/09/poll_finds_publ.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/19/opinion/polls/main5098517.shtml

http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=1790

the world outside rasmussen seems to have a different view.

Well is seems with most polls you post, there is a HUGE oversample of Dems

In your CBS poll 38% Dems VS 24% Republicans

Why Dems want to jack up taxes when the nation has 10% unemployment is beyond me. Not only that, how Dems will PUNISH Doctors who give to much care to their sick patients is very telling how Dems will "cut health care costs"

[maineman]

from the CBS poll:

total respondents 895
republicans 284
democrats 301
independents 310

[red states rule]

from the CBS poll:

total respondents 895
republicans 284
democrats 301
independents 310

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/CBSPOLL_June09a_health_care.pdf?tag=contentMain;co ntentBody

As I said, more Dems then Republcians - and more "Independents" then Republicans

The daily tracking poll I posted clearly shows a track history of opposition to Obamacare, the higher taxes, the rationed care, the punishment of Doctors who give to much care to sick patients, and the added debt Dems will pile on the taxpayers

[maineman]

As I said, more Dems then Republcians - and more "Independents" then Republicans



that's not what you said, you said that there was a huge oversampling of democrats.

In fact, the poll had 32% republican, 34% democrat, and 34% independent which closely follows national voter registration statistics.

[red states rule]

that's not what you said, you said that there was a huge oversampling of democrats.

In fact, the poll had 32% republican, 34% democrat, and 34% independent which closely follows national voter registration statistics.

Try again Virgil. Ckick on my link, go to the last page - the percentages are 24% Republicans, and 38% Dem and Independent

Are you unable to comment on why people are oposed to Obamcare - or are you only trying to push Dem heavy pols that you agree with?

[maineman]

Try again Virgil. Ckick on my link, go to the last page - the percentages are 24% Republicans, and 38% Dem and Independent

Are you unable to comment on why people are oposed to Obamcare - or are you only trying to push Dem heavy pols that you agree with?

I did... the total respondents are just as I listed.

You took yours from the weighted column....

do you even know what that means?

[red states rule]

I did... the total respondents are just as I listed.

You took yours from the weighted column....

do you even know what that means?

and there is a huge oversample of Dems and Independents

I guess you are unwilling to explain why people are wrong to oppose Obamacare. It is hard for you to dispute facts, you prefer to ignore them

[maineman]

you realize, of course, that "oversampling" does not change the percentage distribution of particular party responses, but merely refines the data within any one party's set of responses?

obviously not.

I showed you data that would indicate that support for health care reform is rising and support for the public option is rising...

you have different data? good for you.

How about Oly Snowe? :laugh2:

I might even vote for her next time.

[red states rule]

you realize, of course, that "oversampling" does not change the percentage distribution of particular party responses, but merely refines the data within any one party's set of responses?

obviously not.

I showed you data that would indicate that support for health care reform is rising and support for the public option is rising...

you have different data? good for you.

How about Oly Snowe? :laugh2:

I might even vote for her next time.

So as usual you duck, dodge, and hide from what is in the bill - and wave the pom poms for your party

I will try one more time Virgil. Explain this

From the NY Times

snip

"The tax, a provision of the bill to be voted on Tuesday by the Senate Finance Committee, is one of the few remaining proposals under consideration by Congress that budget experts say could lead directly to a reduction in health care spending over the long term, by prompting employers and employees to buy cheaper insurance. Whether it remains in the bill is emerging as a test of the commitment by President Obama and his party to slowing the steep rise of medical expenses"



Then Virgil, 2 paragraphs later



"Under the Finance Committee bill, the tax would be imposed beginning in 2013 on employer- sponsored health plans with total premiums exceeding $8,000 for individuals and $21,000 for families, regardless of whether the coverage was paid for by the employer, the individual or both. The tax would be paid by insurers, who would be expected to pass along the cost to customers"

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/he...y/13plans.html

So how the hell will Obamacare lower the cost of health coverage?

[maineman]

budget experts say could lead directly to a reduction in health care spending "over the long term, by prompting employers and employees to buy cheaper insurance":lol:

[red states rule]

budget experts say could lead directly to a reduction in health care spending "over the long term, by prompting employers and employees to buy cheaper insurance":lol:

The same experts who said Obama would cut the defict in half?

Again from the NY Times

"Under the Finance Committee bill, the tax would be imposed beginning in 2013 on employer- sponsored health plans with total premiums exceeding $8,000 for individuals and $21,000 for families, regardless of whether the coverage was paid for by the employer, the individual or both. The tax would be paid by insurers, who would be expected to pass along the cost to customers"

[maineman]

The same experts who said Obama would cut the defict in half?



I dunno. I copied the text directly from your cut and paste article above. If you ae going to post statements from experts, I would suggest you know who they were.

[red states rule]

I dunno. I copied the text directly from your cut and paste article above. If you ae going to post statements from experts, I would suggest you know who they were.

Again you are ducking the facts Virgil. If Dems tax our current healthcare plans, and the added cost is passed on us the buyer - how will that lower the cost of health care?

It is clear you are like your party leaders, you are not interested in lowering the cost of healthcare - you want the government to control healthcare

You do not care how much more people will pay for their healthcare ins

You do not care how much more seniors will pay for their medical equipment with the higher taxes Dems will impose

You do not care if the government will force people to buy Obamacare

You do not care that Doctors will be punished for giving to much care to sick patients.

You do not care taxes will increase now, and Obamacre will start on 2013

All you do care about to sprewing the party talking points, and wanting a poltiical win for your party regardless of what harm the bill will do to the nation and its citizens

[maineman]

Again you are ducking the facts Virgil. If Dems tax our current healthcare plans, and the added cost is passed on us the buyer - how will that lower the cost of health care?

cost savings come from other aspects of the legislation, obviously.


It is clear you are like your party leaders, you are interested in lowering the cost of healthcare - you want the government to control healthcare

thank you. I agree wholeheartedly with the bolded sentence. I do not think that anything in the legislation being considered calls for government control of healthcare, however.


You do not care how much more people will pay for their healthcare ins

not so. Everyone will have a choice


You do not care how much more seniors will pay for their medical equipment with the higher taxes Dems will impose

Of course I care... and if I thought any increases were excessive, I'd take issue with them


You do not care if the government will force people to buy Obamacare

Nothing I have read suggests that the health care reform legislation being considered in congress would take away insurance choice from anyone


You do not care that Doctors will be punished for giving to much care to sick patients.

and yet, Doctors support a public option. hmmmmmmm.


You do not care taxes will increase now, and Obamacre will start on 2013

Of course I do. I wish that the changes would happen much sooner



"All I care about is sprewing the party talking points, and wanting a poltiical win for my party regardless of what harm killing reform will do to the nation and its citizens" - redstatesdrool

fixed that last one for ya

[red states rule]

cost savings come from other aspects of the legislation, obviously.


What aspects Virgil? Taxes will make the cost of health ins go up. People will be FINED and/or jailed if they do not take Obamcare

Seniors wil see their care rationed

In the bill, if you lose your coverage you are not allowed to buy ins from a private compnay you must buy from the government

People want tax cuts and not new spenidng on Obamacare

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/october_2009/to_pay_for_health_care_plan_59_say_no_new_taxes_on _those_earning_under_250_000

Dems are going to tax seniors medical equipment, and those added costs will be passd on to them Virgil. So much for not raising taxes on those who make less then $250.000/yr

If emplyers do not offer the level of care Dems deem proper, they will fine those employers

Once again, you have no problem with your party passing excessive tax increases on people, despite the recession Obama has made worse with escessive spending and growing deficits

[red states rule]

and from one of your own kind Virgil. A proud liberal who gves the most honest assesment of Obamcare I have heard yet


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[red states rule]

Yea Virgil, Doctors are all for the plan

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/156116.JPG

[Sitarro]

Would love to see the questions asked since most of the public doesn't have a clue what "public option" means. You give the American public as a whole, way too much credit. Look how easy it was for a community organizer to spend 730,000,000 dollars telling the ignorant public he was going to bring HOPE and CHANGE, and get their vote. The same people wouldn't believe a used car salesman's fast talk and yet they bought this shyster's shit, hook line and the entire boat.

[red states rule]

Looks like MM has left the thread in shame

Seems he could not handle those pesky facts once again

[red states rule]

Would love to see the questions asked since most of the public doesn't have a clue what "public option" means. You give the American public as a whole, way too much credit. Look how easy it was for a community organizer to spend 730,000,000 dollars telling the ignorant public he was going to bring HOPE and CHANGE, and get their vote. The same people wouldn't believe a used car salesman's fast talk and yet they bought this shyster's shit, hook line and the entire boat.

Here is another one of MM's fellow liberals slipping up and telling the truth on camera

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[SassyLady]

The voters want a public option. Why are the Republicans blocking it? Shouldn't we crack some heads to give the voters what they want?

If that's the case, put it on a ballot and really let the voters decide.

[red states rule]

If that's the case, put it on a ballot and really let the voters decide.

They will not do that - not with ACORN on the sidelines right now. Then it might be a fair vote, and Dems would lose the battle at the ballot box

[SassyLady]

No. I didn't overlook it. That's why I posted:



It's also why Rachel Maddow made her report. She knows some Democrats are conspiring with Republicans to deny Americans the health care they deserve. Their outrageous betrayal of public trust deserves extreme punishment.

The majority of Americans do not want a "public option", they want health care reform. And if you want extreme punishment for the betrayal of public trust, then start a movement to impeach Obama........seems he is betraying those that voted for him more than anyone else.

[red states rule]

The majority of Americans do not want a "public option", they want health care reform. And if you want extreme punishment for the betrayal of public trust, then start a movement to impeach Obama........seems he is betraying those that voted for him more than anyone else.

Libs will ram this bill through, regardless what the voters want. Regardless of what Obamacare it will do to the economy.

All this is about - like cap and trade - is about POWER

After this BS is rammed thru and it starts destroying the healthcare industry and the econony - Dems will whine how their programs were not funded enough, or how Bush wrecked the economy so badly their programs were not given enough time to work, or how Republicans blocked "key" parts of the bills that would have made them successful

Dems will also beg the voters to keep them in power so the "evil" Republicnas will not roll back all of the Dems "gaines" in their efforst for a "fair" America

[sgtdmski]

A public option would eliminate the need for any other reform. It would make the insurance companies honest. They would have to give the American People good health insurance at fair prices. That's what the American People want. Everything else is just rerigging a bad system and the American People know it. They don't want it rerigged. They want to be able to opt-out by choosing a public option.

Read slowly.

How can anyone, Republican or Democrat, ignore the needs of the American People and their stated wish for a public option?

If that is the case Joe, riddle me this riddle me that, why do only 29% of people (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/october_2009/fear_of_losing_private_health_insurance_trumps_pub lic_option) support public option if it requires them to change their current insurance?????

If the government public option is the be all and end all why does the support for it reduce by nearly half??????

Yeah it is easy to say that the majority of people say they want the public option, but when put to the question we see that the majority of people want to keep what they have.

dmk

[red states rule]

If that is the case Joe, riddle me this riddle me that, why do only 29% of people (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/october_2009/fear_of_losing_private_health_insurance_trumps_pub lic_option) support public option if it requires them to change their current insurance?????

If the government public option is the be all and end all why does the support for it reduce by nearly half??????

Yeah it is easy to say that the majority of people say they want the public option, but when put to the question we see that the majority of people want to keep what they have.

dmk

I find it intreresting the libs here are avoiding this thread, and not even trying to counter what is in the various Obamacare bills

Seems libs have no problem with massive tax increases with unemployment near 10%

[Joe Steel]

The majority of Americans do not want a "public option", they want health care reform.

That's nonsense. Virtually every poll shows overwhelming support for a public option.

[Joe Steel]

If that is the case Joe, riddle me this riddle me that, why do only...29% of people support public option if it requires them to change their current insurance?????

They like the insurance they already have.

[Joe Steel]

I find it intreresting the libs here are avoiding this thread, and not even trying to counter what is in the various Obamacare bills

Seems libs have no problem with massive tax increases with unemployment near 10%

Non whatever.

Taxes are good. They move money from those who too much to those who have too little.

What could be fairer?

[MtnBiker]

People keeping the money they earned themselves.

[Gaffer]

Non whatever.

Taxes are good. They move money from those who too much to those who have too little.

What could be fairer?

I demand you send me one third of your income. I'm poor and you should give me yours. It's only fair.

[Joe Steel]

I demand you send me one third of your income. I'm poor and you should give me yours. It's only fair.

Call your congressman and have him introduce a bill. I'll comply with whatever law results.

[Gaffer]

Call your congressman and have him introduce a bill. I'll comply with whatever law results.

What your not going to just hand over your money to me. How uncommie of you.

How about I have my congressman write a bill and stick it in the health care bill as an addendum. Just another unread something for them to pass. Can't have those folks looking too closely at what they are voting on.

Somehow I don't think you would ever comply with such a law. Even though you would love to impose it on other people. Have you put your name in for a gulag commander yet?

[sgtdmski]

That's nonsense. Virtually every poll shows overwhelming support for a public option.

Nonsense, I guess you failed to investigate the link I provided, what's the matter, to lazy to click on it??

dmk

[Kathianne]

That's nonsense. Virtually every poll shows overwhelming support for a public option.

Liar.

[SassyLady]

That's nonsense. Virtually every poll shows overwhelming support for a public option.

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:link:

[red states rule]

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

:link:

Here is a link for Joe - but he won't like it and probably dismiss it as bias



Support for Democrats' Health Care Reform Falls to 42 Percent, Poll Shows

A Rasmussen survey released Monday shows 54 percent is opposed to the plans backed by President Obama and Democrats in Congress.


Just 42 percent of voters support Democrats' health care reform plans even though a majority wants Congress to pass some version of reform, according to a new poll released Monday.

The Rasmussen survey shows 54 percent is opposed to the plans backed by President Obama and Democrats in Congress. The percentage of voters supporting the proposals is down 2 points from the previous week and down 4 points from the week before that.

The survey reflects persistent public skepticism toward the health care overhaul in its current form, even as it advances steadily through Congress. The Senate Finance Committee last week became the last of five congressional panels to approve its version of health care reform -- the full House and Senate still have to merge and vote on their separate packages.

The Rasmussen poll showed that seniors are even more heavily opposed to the plans, with 59 percent opposed and just 36 percent supporting.

However, most voters expect the package to clear Congress. The Rasmussen poll showed 56 percent says passage is likely.

The survey of 1,000 likely voters was conducted Oct. 10-11. It had a margin of error of 3 percentage points.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/19/support-democrats-health-care-reform-falls-percent-poll-shows/?test=latestnews