Government Run Healthcare Numbers Show Massive Failure

[red states rule]

Ok you supporters for Obamacare, step up to the plate and spin these numbers

We have had 50 years of this and it is only getting worse. So now you want the government to take the entire system over?



Tracking Your Taxes: Medicare Waste Goes Unchecked

As the single largest buyer of medical products, you'd think Medicare would at least get a volume discount. But it doesn't even get the best price.



From wheelchairs and walkers to orthopedic shoes and needles, Medicare buys tens of thousands of products every day for elderly Americans. And as the single largest buyer of medical products, you'd think it would at leastget a volume discount.

But it doesn't. In fact, Medicare doesn't even get the best price.

According to their own auditors, Medicare knowingly overpays for almost everything it buys. Examples include:

-- $7,215 to rent an oxygen concentrator, when the purchase price is $600.

-- $4,018 for a standard wheelchair, while the private sector pays $1,048.

-- $1,825 for a hospital bed, compared to an Internet price of $1,071.

-- $3,335 for a respiratory pump, versus an advertised price of $1,987.

-- $82 for a diabetic supply kit, instead of a $47 price on the Web.

Last year, the Health and Human Services Department tried to replace its archaic fixed-price fee schedule for 10 commonly purchased products with a competitive bidding program in 10 cities. The department said the program could save Medicare $125 million in a single year, or $1 billion if adopted nationwide. But Congress stepped in to stop it.

"There were products that we had as much as 75 percent savings. The average was 29 percent," said Mike Leavitt, the former HHS secretary who oversaw the program.

"It would have saved billions if we could've actually implemented it, but Congress deferred it. In Washington speak, that means we put it off forever," he said.

Leavitt blames Congressmen Pete Stark (D-Calif.) and Dave Camp (R-Mich.) for introducing legislation that terminated the contracts and postponed the program for 18 months. Leavitt says the congressional intervention helps explain why many are suspicious of claims that Washington can cut enough waste to actually pay for health care reform, as President Obama told a joint session of Congress last month.

"Reducing the waste and inefficiency in Medicare and Medicaid will pay for most of this plan," Leavitt said.

"The problem here is one man's waste is another man's living, and whenever there is an effort put forward to actually make an efficiency, someone goes on the offensive and hires lobbyists and does what they can to constrain Congress from doing it," Leavitt said.

According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the health care industry is currently spending $2 million a day lobbying Congress. Leavitt's pilot program died after small business suppliers claimed it would have put them out of business. Eventually, industry agreed to help pay the cost of terminated contracts that Medicare had already negotiated.

Industry officials argued the new system would unfairly disqualify some suppliers, and others with little experience would get the business, causing a decline in quality and service.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/05/tracking-taxes-medicare-waste/

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Proof how the medical industry rips off Uncle Sam.
2. And why Uncle Sam doesnt always pay the bills.
3. Constantly being over charged isnt fair, its time reform takes place.
4. The system we have is broken.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,


1. Proof how the medical industry rips off Uncle Sam.
2. And why Uncle Sam doesnt always pay the bills.
3. Constantly being over charged isnt fair, its time reform takes place.
4. The system we have is broken.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

You are getting like Virgil now James. I guess Obama and the libs will cut the waste and fraud only AFTER Obamacare passes

Until then, the US taxpayer is ordered to hand over MORE of their money to pay for this BS

[Nukeman]

Sorry bout that,


1. Proof how the medical industry rips off Uncle Sam.
2. And why Uncle Sam doesnt always pay the bills.
3. Constantly being over charged isnt fair, its time reform takes place.
4. The system we have is broken.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexasNO dumb ass it is the fact the gov't wont allow you to PURCHASE a piece of equipment for a reduced amount instead they would have you RENT the device indefinitely it is just stupid......

[red states rule]

NO dumb ass it is the fact the gov't wont allow you to PURCHASE a piece of equipment for a reduced amount instead they would have you RENT the device indefinitely it is just stupid......

The fact is now the supporters for Obamacare want to turn the entire heathcare system over to these people

Liberals and Obama drones are living proof you can't fix stupidity

[Insein]

Sorry bout that,


1. Proof how the medical industry rips off Uncle Sam.
2. And why Uncle Sam doesnt always pay the bills.
3. Constantly being over charged isnt fair, its time reform takes place.
4. The system we have is broken.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Rips off Uncle Sam? Uncle Sam sets their own price! They are purposely paying the higher price to make it easier to hide when they steal money. Its the government's fault that they pay a higher price because ITS NOT THEIR MONEY!!!

[red states rule]

Rips off Uncle Sam? Uncle Sam set's their own price! They are purposely paying the higher price to make it easier to hide when they steal money. Its the government's fault that they pay a higher price because ITS NOT THEIR MONEY!!!

The problem is the government thinks it is their money. They do not care how they spend it because they can always come back for more with higher taxes

[theHawk]

Sorry bout that,


1. Proof how the medical industry rips off Uncle Sam.
2. And why Uncle Sam doesnt always pay the bills.
3. Constantly being over charged isnt fair, its time reform takes place.
4. The system we have is broken.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Yea its broke because of all the interference from the government.

[red states rule]

Yea its broke because of all the interference from the government.

I am sure the government will pay claims as fast as they paid the car dealers under "Cash for Clunkers"

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,




You are getting like Virgil now James. I guess Obama and the libs will cut the waste and fraud only AFTER Obamacare passes

Until then, the US taxpayer is ordered to hand over MORE of their money to pay for this BS



1. No need to throw out insults!
2.. Virgil is in a class all by himself!:laugh2:
3. The US taxpayers already foot the bill.
4. Nothings going to change.
5. How much have you paid?
6. You know how this works, right, the Gov. prints more money.
7. And passes it around.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,




NO dumb ass it is the fact the gov't wont allow you to PURCHASE a piece of equipment for a reduced amount instead they would have you RENT the device indefinitely it is just stupid......



1. I didnt hire them.
2. So how does it make me dumb?
3. Anyway, the American people voted this political power head.
4. No oneis to blame but ourselves.
5. No one seems to care either.
6. Corruption going on day in day out, and no protests in the streets.
7. You did this, not I, or as much as I.
8. Maybe its you who are the moron, not I?


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,




Rips off Uncle Sam? Uncle Sam sets their own price! They are purposely paying the higher price to make it easier to hide when they steal money. Its the government's fault that they pay a higher price because ITS NOT THEIR MONEY!!!



1. Yeah, and they vote in a pay raise every year too.
2. Whos minding the store huh?
3. This isnt going to fix itself.
4. The way things are with the medical industry, will change, it will stay like it is, and get a lot worse.
5. Or it will be reformed, and then too, may get a lot worse, perhaps better.
6. Either way, we are will have to live with it.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





Yea its broke because of all the interference from the government.




1. I know free markets are good.
2. But when its free for those deciding who gets insurance, to not take a *high risk* client.
3. Then what is that person to do then?
4. Just go out and shoot himself, because he's damaged goods?
5. Screw that!, and screw the insurance companies!
6. This Country isnt founded on this kind of system.
7. Its morally bankrupted!
8. Anythings better than what we have!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





I am sure the government will pay claims as fast as they paid the car dealers under "Cash for Clunkers"



1. Toyota will be very disappointed.:laugh2:


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Trigg]

Sorry bout that,

1. Yeah, and they vote in a pay raise every year too.
2. Whos minding the store huh?
3. This isnt going to fix itself.
4. The way things are with the medical industry, will change, it will stay like it is, and get a lot worse.
5. Or it will be reformed, and then too, may get a lot worse, perhaps better.
6. Either way, we are will have to live with it.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

The gov. can't police itself because it doesn't want to. They run Medicare and could fix the waste. They don't want to because they'd rather line their pockets.

This is the perfect time to fix what they already run. The spot light is on it, but all bambam can talk about is getting his hands on even more of the health care pie.

Look, I agree things need to change. But, the gov. needs to change what it already controls. Instead of trying to take over more aspects of health care. THEY'VE ALREADY PROVEN THEY CAN'T HANDLE MONEY, WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH WOULD WE GIVE THEM MORE POWER.

VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.

[Kathianne]

Sorry bout that,









1. I know free markets are good.
2. But when its free for those deciding who gets insurance, to not take a *high risk* client.
3. Then what is that person to do then?
4. Just go out and shoot himself, because he's damaged goods?
5. Screw that!, and screw the insurance companies!
6. This Country isnt founded on this kind of system.
7. Its morally bankrupted!
8. Anythings better than what we have!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Well one could say that the insurance companies should do something different. Seems to be the 'right's' mantra. Yet you refuse to hear. You just want a give a way, which of course will never happen. Bottom line, end of story, someone will pay and it won't be the 'rich.'

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





The gov. can't police itself because it doesn't want to. They run Medicare and could fix the waste. They don't want to because they'd rather line their pockets.

This is the perfect time to fix what they already run. The spot light is on it, but all bambam can talk about is getting his hands on even more of the health care pie.

Look, I agree things need to change. But, the gov. needs to change what it already controls. Instead of trying to take over more aspects of health care. THEY'VE ALREADY PROVEN THEY CAN'T HANDLE MONEY, WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH WOULD WE GIVE THEM MORE POWER.

VOTE ALL INCUMBENTS OUT OF OFFICE.

1. Look at todays normal governmemt practices.
2. Its crammed pack full of corruption.
3. Who you going to elect who isnt corrupted as hell?
4. Problem is, there is'nt a good decent person willing to run for high office anymore.
5. So, anyway you vote, screwed, this one, screwed, that one screwed.
6. That pretty much sums up American Politics.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





Well one could say that the insurance companies should do something different. Seems to be the 'right's' mantra. Yet you refuse to hear. You just want a give a way, which of course will never happen. Bottom line, end of story, someone will pay and it won't be the 'rich.'



1. Bottom line is, what we have is screwed up.
2. What we get, will be screwed up.
3. So in fact, nothing ever changes.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Gunny]

Ok you supporters for Obamacare, step up to the plate and spin these numbers

We have had 50 years of this and it is only getting worse. So now you want the government to take the entire system over?



Tracking Your Taxes: Medicare Waste Goes Unchecked

As the single largest buyer of medical products, you'd think Medicare would at least get a volume discount. But it doesn't even get the best price.



From wheelchairs and walkers to orthopedic shoes and needles, Medicare buys tens of thousands of products every day for elderly Americans. And as the single largest buyer of medical products, you'd think it would at leastget a volume discount.

But it doesn't. In fact, Medicare doesn't even get the best price.

According to their own auditors, Medicare knowingly overpays for almost everything it buys. Examples include:

-- $7,215 to rent an oxygen concentrator, when the purchase price is $600.

-- $4,018 for a standard wheelchair, while the private sector pays $1,048.

-- $1,825 for a hospital bed, compared to an Internet price of $1,071.

-- $3,335 for a respiratory pump, versus an advertised price of $1,987.

-- $82 for a diabetic supply kit, instead of a $47 price on the Web.

Last year, the Health and Human Services Department tried to replace its archaic fixed-price fee schedule for 10 commonly purchased products with a competitive bidding program in 10 cities. The department said the program could save Medicare $125 million in a single year, or $1 billion if adopted nationwide. But Congress stepped in to stop it.

"There were products that we had as much as 75 percent savings. The average was 29 percent," said Mike Leavitt, the former HHS secretary who oversaw the program.

"It would have saved billions if we could've actually implemented it, but Congress deferred it. In Washington speak, that means we put it off forever," he said.

Leavitt blames Congressmen Pete Stark (D-Calif.) and Dave Camp (R-Mich.) for introducing legislation that terminated the contracts and postponed the program for 18 months. Leavitt says the congressional intervention helps explain why many are suspicious of claims that Washington can cut enough waste to actually pay for health care reform, as President Obama told a joint session of Congress last month.

"Reducing the waste and inefficiency in Medicare and Medicaid will pay for most of this plan," Leavitt said.

"The problem here is one man's waste is another man's living, and whenever there is an effort put forward to actually make an efficiency, someone goes on the offensive and hires lobbyists and does what they can to constrain Congress from doing it," Leavitt said.

According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the health care industry is currently spending $2 million a day lobbying Congress. Leavitt's pilot program died after small business suppliers claimed it would have put them out of business. Eventually, industry agreed to help pay the cost of terminated contracts that Medicare had already negotiated.

Industry officials argued the new system would unfairly disqualify some suppliers, and others with little experience would get the business, causing a decline in quality and service.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/05/tracking-taxes-medicare-waste/

You WILL be assimilated. Just do as the Obama Llama says and you are assured a spot in heaven.:cool:

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,







1. No need to throw out insults!
2.. Virgil is in a class all by himself!:laugh2:
3. The US taxpayers already foot the bill.
4. Nothings going to change.
5. How much have you paid?
6. You know how this works, right, the Gov. prints more money.
7. And passes it around.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

No offense intended with the Virgil remark - but you are spinning and making as much sense as Virgil does, but without the personal attacks

But look at the current success of the government. AMTRAK, Social Security, the US Post Office, Medicare, Medicade, and the Congressional cafeteria are all broke

But we are to believe Obamacare will at least break even or turn a profit?

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,







1. Yeah, and they vote in a pay raise every year too.
2. Whos minding the store huh?
3. This isnt going to fix itself.
4. The way things are with the medical industry, will change, it will stay like it is, and get a lot worse.
5. Or it will be reformed, and then too, may get a lot worse, perhaps better.
6. Either way, we are will have to live with it.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

James please remember several states have tried Obamacare and ALL of them have failed

The states I know of are Maine, Oregon, Massachsetts, HI, and Washington state

In fact here is a great example of Obamacare at the state level


Oregon Offers Terminal Patients Doctor-Assisted Suicide Instead of Medical Care

PORTLAND, Ore. — Some terminally ill patients in Oregon who turned to their state for health care were denied treatment and offered doctor-assisted suicide instead, a proposal some experts have called a "chilling" corruption of medical ethics.

Since the spread of his prostate cancer, 53-year-old Randy Stroup of Dexter, Ore., has been in a fight for his life. Uninsured and unable to pay for expensive chemotherapy, he applied to Oregon's state-run health plan for help.

Lane Individual Practice Association (LIPA), which administers the Oregon Health Plan in Lane County, responded to Stroup's request with a letter saying the state would not cover Stroup's pricey treatment, but would pay for the cost of physician-assisted suicide.

"It dropped my chin to the floor," Stroup told FOX News. "[How could they] not pay for medication that would help my life, and yet offer to pay to end my life?"

The letter, which has been sent to other terminal patients throughout Oregon, follows guidelines established by the state legislature.

Oregon doesn't cover life-prolonging treatment unless there is better than a 5 percent chance it will help the patients live for five more years — but it covers doctor-assisted suicide, defining it as a means of providing comfort, no different from hospice care or pain medication.

"It's chilling when you think about it," said Dr. William Toffler, a professor of family medicine at Oregon Health & Science University. "It absolutely conveys to the patient that continued living isn't worthwhile."

In issuing their latest Prioritized List of Health Services, state officials reported a new emphasis on preventive care and cost effectiveness. Dr. John Sattenspiel, LIPA's senior medical director, defended the measures.

"I have had patients who would consider knowing that this is part of that range of comfort care or palliative care services that are still available to them, they would be comforted by that," Sattenspiel said. "It really depends on the individual patient."

Toffler called it a callous practice that went against medical convention. "It corrupts the consistent medical ethic that has been in place for 2,000 years," he said. "It's absolutely breathtaking."

Oregon is the only state to legalize doctor-assisted suicide, which came into effect in 1997. Since that time, there have been 341 reported cases where doctors provided lethal doses of medicine to patients to end their lives.

Oregon voters have upheld the "Death with Dignity" law three times, and Sattenspiel says it is the state's duty to inform patients of all their legal options.

For Stroup, however, suicide was never an option. He fought back, and the Oregon Health Plan eventually reversed its decision and is now paying for his chemotherapy, giving him hope he'll be around a little longer for his 80-year-old mother and five grandchildren

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,392962,00.html

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





James please remember several states have tried Obamacare and ALL of them have failed

The states I know of are Maine, Oregon, Massachsetts, HI, and Washington state

In fact here is a great example of Obamacare at the state level


Oregon Offers Terminal Patients Doctor-Assisted Suicide Instead of Medical Care

PORTLAND, Ore. — Some terminally ill patients in Oregon who turned to their state for health care were denied treatment and offered doctor-assisted suicide instead, a proposal some experts have called a "chilling" corruption of medical ethics.

Since the spread of his prostate cancer, 53-year-old Randy Stroup of Dexter, Ore., has been in a fight for his life. Uninsured and unable to pay for expensive chemotherapy, he applied to Oregon's state-run health plan for help.

Lane Individual Practice Association (LIPA), which administers the Oregon Health Plan in Lane County, responded to Stroup's request with a letter saying the state would not cover Stroup's pricey treatment, but would pay for the cost of physician-assisted suicide.

"It dropped my chin to the floor," Stroup told FOX News. "[How could they] not pay for medication that would help my life, and yet offer to pay to end my life?"

The letter, which has been sent to other terminal patients throughout Oregon, follows guidelines established by the state legislature.

Oregon doesn't cover life-prolonging treatment unless there is better than a 5 percent chance it will help the patients live for five more years — but it covers doctor-assisted suicide, defining it as a means of providing comfort, no different from hospice care or pain medication.

"It's chilling when you think about it," said Dr. William Toffler, a professor of family medicine at Oregon Health & Science University. "It absolutely conveys to the patient that continued living isn't worthwhile."

In issuing their latest Prioritized List of Health Services, state officials reported a new emphasis on preventive care and cost effectiveness. Dr. John Sattenspiel, LIPA's senior medical director, defended the measures.

"I have had patients who would consider knowing that this is part of that range of comfort care or palliative care services that are still available to them, they would be comforted by that," Sattenspiel said. "It really depends on the individual patient."

Toffler called it a callous practice that went against medical convention. "It corrupts the consistent medical ethic that has been in place for 2,000 years," he said. "It's absolutely breathtaking."

Oregon is the only state to legalize doctor-assisted suicide, which came into effect in 1997. Since that time, there have been 341 reported cases where doctors provided lethal doses of medicine to patients to end their lives.

Oregon voters have upheld the "Death with Dignity" law three times, and Sattenspiel says it is the state's duty to inform patients of all their legal options.

For Stroup, however, suicide was never an option. He fought back, and the Oregon Health Plan eventually reversed its decision and is now paying for his chemotherapy, giving him hope he'll be around a little longer for his 80-year-old mother and five grandchildren

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,392962,00.html




1. If anyones spinning it you.
2. Obama care before Obama care?
3. Maybe Obama care will make it illegal to live past thrity.
4. That way no long term illnesses.
5. I don't beleive it will be any different than it is now.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,









1. If anyones spinning it you.
2. Obama care before Obama care?
3. Maybe Obama care will make it illegal to live past thrity.
4. That way no long term illnesses.
5. I don't beleive it will be any different than it is now.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

So it is spinning to point out where Obamacare has been tried at the state level has failed?

It is spinning to point out the state told cancer patients it was cheaper for them to pay for doctor assisted suicide then their meds?

James, you are ignoring the fact that there is no way the nation can pay for Obamacare - even if you tax the "rich" at a 100% tax rate

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





No offense intended with the Virgil remark - but you are spinning and making as much sense as Virgil does, but without the personal attacks

But look at the current success of the government. AMTRAK, Social Security, the US Post Office, Medicare, Medicade, and the Congressional cafeteria are all broke

But we are to believe Obamacare will at least break even or turn a profit?



1. Making a profit on death and suddering, is always hard to do day in day out.
2. I would trust the government as much as anyone else.
3. At least they will never run out of money, they have printing presses.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
2.

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,








1. Making a profit on death and suddering, is always hard to do day in day out.
2. I would trust the government as much as anyone else.
3. At least they will never run out of money, they have printing presses.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
2.

Who is making a profit on death James? First you blast the "evil" ins companies for denying claimes, then when it is proven medicare reject more claimes then anyone else - you still want the governement to take care of you and your family

The government has run out of money James. The US is BROKE. China is ready to cut off our credit line. Medicare and SS is owed $55 TRILLION. Obama and the Dems have DOUBLED the national debt in 9 months

Get your head out the sand and look at the real world

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





So it is spinning to point out where Obamacare has been tried at the state level has failed?

It is spinning to point out the state told cancer patients it was cheaper for them to pay for doctor assisted suicide then their meds?

James, you are ignoring the fact that there is no way the nation can pay for Obamacare - even if you tax the "rich" at a 100% tax rate




1. Sure no one can afford to pay for all the healthcare industry bills.
2. Thats why the healthcare system we now have is broken.
3. Even the Government cant and wont pay for it, even thou they could.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,









1. Sure no one can afford to pay for all the healthcare industry bills.
2. Thats why the healthcare system we now have is broken.
3. Even the Government cant and wont pay for it, even thou they could.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


Eh, James I paid my health care bills, and I still am. No problem.

I know of noone at my job where people are upset with their health ins, coverage, and what they pay

HOWEVER, most of them are also worried that our company will drop the health plan, pay the 8% Obamacare tax, and put us all in the "public option"

NOW WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT THAT

And if the health industry is "broken" as you and the Dems claim - why is it that Obamacare will not take effect until 2013?

If we are in such dire straits, why the 3 to 4 year wait? BTW Virigl got his ass kicked on this one when he said there was nothing in the bills that had this start date.

So who will pay for this James? Your great great grandkids?

[chesswarsnow]

Eh, James I paid my health care bills, and I still am. No problem.

I know of noone at my job where people are upset with their health ins, coverage, and what they pay

HOWEVER, most of them are also worried that our company will drop the health plan, pay the 8% Obamacare tax, and put us all in the "public option"

NOW WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT THAT

And if the health industry is "broken" as you and the Dems claim - why is it that Obamacare will not take effect until 2013?

If we are in such dire straits, why the 3 to 4 year wait? BTW Virigl got his ass kicked on this one when he said there was nothing in the bills that had this start date.

So who will pay for this James? Your great great grandkids?



1. Yeah you have insurance and yet youre still digging into your pockets.
2. Sure your happy.
3. I would be madder than a hornet.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

1. Yeah you have insurance and yet youre still digging into your pockets.
2. Sure your happy.
3. I would be madder than a hornet.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

So in your world, health ins is pay for everything? Ins was never set up to do that.

Also, those "evil" health care ins companies make a 3.3% profit.

Why stop at Obamacare? Why not Obamacare dental ins? Obamacare homeowner ins? Obamcare car ins?

Why not have the Feds take over every ins industry then you would only have to worry if there enough people working and handing over about 90% of their income to the Feds to try and cover some of the cost

[Insein]

Sorry bout that,

1. Yeah, and they vote in a pay raise every year too.
2. Whos minding the store huh?
3. This isnt going to fix itself.
4. The way things are with the medical industry, will change, it will stay like it is, and get a lot worse.
5. Or it will be reformed, and then too, may get a lot worse, perhaps better.
6. Either way, we are will have to live with it.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

That makes no sense. If someone is extorting you for money by manipulating a little power of your life, you don't hand them full power over your life and expect it to get better. The government is the problem. The solution is to get government out of healthcare.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,




That makes no sense. If someone is extorting you for money by manipulating a little power of your life, you don't hand them full power over your life and expect it to get better. The government is the problem. The solution is to get government out of healthcare.



1. Not really.
2. It can't get any worse.
3. So whats behind door number two, is worth the risk of keeping the elephant behind door number one.
4. It will be better, I think.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,






So in your world, health ins is pay for everything? Ins was never set up to do that.

Also, those "evil" health care ins companies make a 3.3% profit.

Why stop at Obamacare? Why not Obamacare dental ins? Obamacare homeowner ins? Obamcare car ins?

Why not have the Feds take over every ins industry then you would only have to worry if there enough people working and handing over about 90% of their income to the Feds to try and cover some of the cost




1. Yes, thats why people have insurance to cover these kinds of issues.
2. You being happy after being stuck with a huge 12k bill after having cancer, boggles the mind.:poke:
3. I think we let Loyds of London shoulder most other insurance needs.
4. Which its usually some one like that who actually insure all things.
5. Being the under writers.
6. The insurance companies make a lot more than 4%, I dont know directly what it is, but I'm sure its more like 30%.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Trigg]

Sorry bout that,






1. Look at todays normal governmemt practices.
2. Its crammed pack full of corruption.
3. Who you going to elect who isnt corrupted as hell?
4. Problem is, there is'nt a good decent person willing to run for high office anymore.
5. So, anyway you vote, screwed, this one, screwed, that one screwed.
6. That pretty much sums up American Politics.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

I think we finally agree on something. YES the government is corrupt and it's almost impossible to find a politician who isn't out for himself.

So, with that said, why would you want to give even more power to the gov. over our healthcare???????

We need to stick to our guns and MAKE them fix what the're already in control of. IF they won't do it we VOTE THE BUMS OUT!!!!!

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





I think we finally agree on something. YES the government is corrupt and it's almost impossible to find a politician who isn't out for himself.

So, with that said, why would you want to give even more power to the gov. over our healthcare???????

We need to stick to our guns and MAKE them fix what the're already in control of. IF they won't do it we VOTE THE BUMS OUT!!!!!

1. Well in a perfect world, sure.
2. How you gonna pulls these politicians strings, when they are all live wires.
3. They collectively will do what they want too.
4. You know that, we all know it.
5. This next election the incumbents will waltz right back up there in droves.
6. You can't change reality, this is a solid my friend.
7. Problem is healthcare has left me in the cold, I got nothing to lose.



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,










1. Yes, thats why people have insurance to cover these kinds of issues.
2. You being happy after being stuck with a huge 12k bill after having cancer, boggles the mind.:poke:
3. I think we let Loyds of London shoulder most other insurance needs.
4. Which its usually some one like that who actually insure all things.
5. Being the under writers.
6. The insurance companies make a lot more than 4%, I dont know directly what it is, but I'm sure its more like 30%.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

After over $100,000 in medical bills - yea I am happy what I had to pay. The $100,00 does NOT take in consideration the cost of Chemo, RX's, office vists - but the total I paid did

Again James I posted the link on the 3.3% profit and you ducked the issues by saying the companioes were hiding income. They rank 86th on the profit list of US companies. Beverage industry is #1

Like VIrgil, whjen hit with facts that blows your ass out of the water you try in vain to spin and even come up with kok conspiracy theories

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. No mate, my ass stays firmly planted in the water.
2. Insurance companies,make trillions.
3. To think they don't is shear nonsense.
4. I know what my insurance friend makes, he makes about 30k a month.
5. Its a very profitable business.
6. You my friend are afriad of change, I understand.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,


1. No mate, my ass stays firmly planted in the water.
2. Insurance companies,make trillions.
3. To think they don't is shear nonsense.
4. I know what my insurance friend makes, he makes about 30k a month.
5. Its a very profitable business.
6. You my friend are afriad of change, I understand.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

NO your ass is bloiwn out of the water, and you return for awhile until the convoy takes another direct hit

Yea they make money - they are a BUSINESS

But the crap you and other sprew is just that - CRAP

They make a 3.3% profit margin and you say they make "obscene" profits

Anmd you are looking for your handout, and the last thing you want to discuss James are the actual facts about the current systam, what the Dems are putting in their various healthcare bills, and what it will cost taxpayers

Here is the link on the profits on halthcare comapanies - not that you are interested in learning the truth James

If you were you would be opposed to this power grab by the Dems

http://seekingalpha.com/article/155858-health-insurance-industry-s-profit-margins-rank-86

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





NO your ass is bloiwn out of the water, and you return for awhile until the convoy takes another direct hit

Yea they make money - they are a BUSINESS

But the crap you and other sprew is just that - CRAP

They make a 3.3% profit margin and you say they make "obscene" profits

Anmd you are looking for your handout, and the last thing you want to discuss James are the actual facts about the current systam, what the Dems are putting in their various healthcare bills, and what it will cost taxpayers

Here is the link on the profits on halthcare comapanies - not that you are interested in learning the truth James





If you were you would be opposed to this power grab by the Dems

http://seekingalpha.com/article/155858-health-insurance-industry-s-profit-margins-rank-86




1. He really makes more, because if you figure the four agents he has under him, he has a slice of whatever they do.
2. He makes easyly 500k a year.
3. On a slow year.
4. Do you make anywhere near that?
5. Thought not.
6. Yeah he's just one agent scrapping by, everyone understands now.
7. He also manages others peoples millions, with investment idea, which is another whole side job of his, which he doesn't tell me what he makes doing that.
8. I'dd guess it depends on how well the funds do, a percentage I suppose.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,









1. He really makes more, because if you figure the four agents he has under him, he has a slice of whatever they do.
2. He makes easyly 500k a year.
3. On a slow year.
4. Do you make anywhere near that?
5. Thought not.
6. Yeah he's just one agent scrapping by, everyone understands now.
7. He also manages others peoples millions, with investment idea, which is another whole side job of his, which he doesn't tell me what he makes doing that.
8. I'dd guess it depends on how well the funds do, a percentage I suppose.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

So you are pissed off someone works harder then you do, and makes more then you do? Is that something that pisses you off so badly you have to wreck the entire healthcare system of the nation?

[CSM]

Sorry bout that,

1. He really makes more, because if you figure the four agents he has under him, he has a slice of whatever they do.
2. He makes easyly 500k a year.
3. On a slow year.
4. Do you make anywhere near that?
5. Thought not.
6. Yeah he's just one agent scrapping by, everyone understands now.
7. He also manages others peoples millions, with investment idea, which is another whole side job of his, which he doesn't tell me what he makes doing that.
8. I'dd guess it depends on how well the funds do, a percentage I suppose.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Hey, maybe you could get him to subsidize your health care. With friends like that who needs insurance right? Have you even broached the subject with him? I bet he'd be HAPPY to take care or your little problem!

[Trigg]

Sorry bout that,

1. Well in a perfect world, sure.
2. How you gonna pulls these politicians strings, when they are all live wires.
3. They collectively will do what they want too.
4. You know that, we all know it.
5. This next election the incumbents will waltz right back up there in droves.
6. You can't change reality, this is a solid my friend.
7. Problem is health care has left me in the cold, I got nothing to lose.


Look, I'm sorry you've had a hard time with your health.

But, giving the gov. more control when we know they screw up everything they touch and what they don't screw up they double the cost of, doesn't make sense.

I'd love to see some changes, they are definitely needed. For once though the gov. needs to go slow and, instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, lets try something new, and actually think things through before making changes.

Personally I think things are going pretty well. People have protested and it's working. The gov. is being FORCED to slow down and READ WHAT THEY ARE PROPOSING. They are going SLOW and debating the options. This is a good thing!!!!!

The media is reporting on new developments so that WE THE PEOPLE are being kept informed. Again, this is a good thing.

We may (hopefully) get some GOOD changes out of this. Instead of the usual knee jerk throw something at the people so they'll shut up and go back to sleep measures that we usually get.

[red states rule]

Look, I'm sorry you've had a hard time with your health.

But, giving the gov. more control when we know they screw up everything they touch and what they don't screw up they double the cost of, doesn't make sense.

I'd love to see some changes, they are definitely needed. For once though the gov. needs to go slow and, instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, lets try something new, and actually think things through before making changes.

Personally I think things are going pretty well. People have protested and it's working. The gov. is being FORCED to slow down and READ WHAT THEY ARE PROPOSING. They are going SLOW and debating the options. This is a good thing!!!!!

The media is reporting on new developments so that WE THE PEOPLE are being kept informed. Again, this is a good thing.

We may (hopefully) get some GOOD changes out of this. Instead of the usual knee jerk throw something at the people so they'll shut up and go back to sleep measures that we usually get.

The only way any good can come from this is if Dems give up trying to takeover the healthcare industryy and try to pass ideas that will actually lower the cost and open up competition between the ins companies

But that is not what they want - so I doubt if it will happen

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





So you are pissed off someone works harder then you do, and makes more then you do? Is that something that pisses you off so badly you have to wreck the entire healthcare system of the nation?




1. No I'm not pissed at my friend, at all, he's my friend for crying out loud.
2. I'm just saying the insurance business makes bucks, far more than I make.
3. And you're saying they only scrap by on 3.3 percent,..Hehehehehe,......
4. Which I know is false.
5. The Health System we presently have is so unfair and lopsided you have to be a moron not to see it.
6. Not that you don't see I know you do.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





Hey, maybe you could get him to subsidize your health care. With friends like that who needs insurance right? Have you even broached the subject with him? I bet he'd be HAPPY to take care or your little problem!



1. Why would he want too?
2. He's single, never married, is about 54 years of age, with his pockets plum full.
3. Why would he want to be an asurance for me?
4. You actually know people like that who would?


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





Look, I'm sorry you've had a hard time with your health.

But, giving the gov. more control when we know they screw up everything they touch and what they don't screw up they double the cost of, doesn't make sense.

I'd love to see some changes, they are definitely needed. For once though the gov. needs to go slow and, instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, lets try something new, and actually think things through before making changes.

Personally I think things are going pretty well. People have protested and it's working. The gov. is being FORCED to slow down and READ WHAT THEY ARE PROPOSING. They are going SLOW and debating the options. This is a good thing!!!!!

The media is reporting on new developments so that WE THE PEOPLE are being kept informed. Again, this is a good thing.

We may (hopefully) get some GOOD changes out of this. Instead of the usual knee jerk throw something at the people so they'll shut up and go back to sleep measures that we usually get.




1. Well thanks.
2. Maybe they are milking this in order to push it through at the right time.
3. I get the feeling that alot of people won't be happy.
4. I hope its atleast something we all can live with.
5. If not I'm selling all my properties and leaving the country.
6. And yes that's a promise.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Trigg]

Sorry bout that,

1. Well thanks.
2. Maybe they are milking this in order to push it through at the right time.
3. I get the feeling that alot of people won't be happy.
4. I hope its atleast something we all can live with.
5. If not I'm selling all my properties and leaving the country.
6. And yes that's a promise.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

If they make the right choices there will be no reason to ram it through. This is something the gov. can do if they take their time. They can fix Medicare, medicaid and the VA's, it will take time and I hope they do TAKE THEIR TIME AND DO IT RIGHT.

I'm sick and tired of the bandaid fixes that washington sends out.

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,









1. No I'm not pissed at my friend, at all, he's my friend for crying out loud.
2. I'm just saying the insurance business makes bucks, far more than I make.
3. And you're saying they only scrap by on 3.3 percent,..Hehehehehe,......
4. Which I know is false.
5. The Health System we presently have is so unfair and lopsided you have to be a moron not to see it.
6. Not that you don't see I know you do.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

JAmes I have shown you the numbers that prove the profit margin is 3.3%

All you have offer to counter it is your opinion. Again, you are acting like Virgil. Ignoire the facts so you do not have to debate.

As more and more facts about Obamacare come out - the more people are opposed to it. BUt like VBirgil, the masses are all wrong - and you and Virgil are right

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Your stats are just some invented stats, and who confirmed them and proved them correct?
2. They are stats they want you to believe.
3. I ain't buying them.
4. No thanks.
5. This healthcare system will be up for change, with *a vote* and it will change, perhaps within a month or two.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,


1. Your stats are just some invented stats, and who confirmed them and proved them correct?
2. They are stats they want you to believe.
3. I ain't buying them.
4. No thanks.
5. This healthcare system will be up for change, with *a vote* and it will change, perhaps within a month or two.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


So like Virgil, you could care less about the truth and you stand by the talking points you toss out regardless of the facts

[Nukeman]

Sorry bout that,

1. Why would he want too?
2. He's single, never married, is about 54 years of age, with his pockets plum full.
3. Why would he want to be an asurance for me?
4. You actually know people like that who would?


Regards,
SirJamesofTexasLet me get this straight, YOU want all of us to be the assurance for your health, right!!! Yet your willing to make an exception for a "wealthy" friend... How telling of you. YOU want all of the other tax payers to pay for you but your willing to give your "friend" a pass.... Hmmmmmm:poke:

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





Let me get this straight, YOU want all of us to be the assurance for your health, right!!! Yet your willing to make an exception for a "wealthy" friend... How telling of you. YOU want all of the other tax payers to pay for you but your willing to give your "friend" a pass.... Hmmmmmm:poke:




1. Oh like you actually ever paid for anybodies healthcare,.......
2. Thats crazy talk my friend.
3. If you actually believe that, then why ain't you upset about how all the illegals come here and get everything free?
4. Why ain't you doing something about it?
5. And how much has that costed you too?
6. I bet you haven't forked out one penny.
7. This common arguement holds no water.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

BTW JAmes, since I suspect your were either to lazy or just not interested to read the link on health ins company profit margins - here is the link

Not that I expect you to read it since you will block out and ignore any facts that go against your predetermined views and opinions



Health Insurance Industry's Profit Margins Rank #86

Private health insurance companies have come under attack lately for making profits, even "record profits," allegedly because of mergers, lack of competition, and monopoly power.

Health Care for America Now: Simply put, the private insurance companies have secured monopolies or tight oligopolies and exercised that power to put profits ahead of patients.

There were no actions taken against anticompetitive conduct by health insurers in the last administration, in spite of the fact that cases by state attorneys general have secured massive fines against these insurers. A lack of antitrust enforcement has enabled insurers to acquire dominant positions in almost every metropolitan market. Unfortunately, this toxic market structure has a profound effect on the nation’s ability to achieve the goals of health care reform.

President Obama: There have been reports just over the last couple of days of insurance companies making record profits, right now," Obama said during a prime-time news conference. At a time when everybody's getting hammered, they're making record profits, and premiums are going up. What's the constraint on that? ... Well, part of the way is to make sure that there's some competition out there.

As the table above of Profit Margins by Industry shows (click to enlarge, data here for the most recent quarter), the industry "Health Care Plans" ranks #86 by profit margin (profits/revenue) at 3.3%. Measured by profit margin, there are 85 industries more profitable than Health Care Plans (included Cigna (CI), Aetna (AET), WellPoint (WLP), HealthSpring (HS), etc.).

And isn't one reason for a lack of competition that competition for health insurance across state lines is prohibited, creating in effect 50 state health insurance "cartels"?

http://seekingalpha.com/article/155858-health-insurance-industry-s-profit-margins-rank-86

[red states rule]

Let me get this straight, YOU want all of us to be the assurance for your health, right!!! Yet your willing to make an exception for a "wealthy" friend... How telling of you. YOU want all of the other tax payers to pay for you but your willing to give your "friend" a pass.... Hmmmmmm:poke:

I would say you have a firm grasp on the obvious Nukeman

[Nukeman]

Sorry bout that,









1. Oh like you actually ever paid for anybodies healthcare,.......
2. Thats crazy talk my friend.
3. If you actually believe that, then why ain't you upset about how all the illegals come here and get everything free?
4. Why ain't you doing something about it?
5. And how much has that costed you too?
6. I bet you haven't forked out one penny.
7. This common arguement holds no water.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
Dude every f***ing time they take the medicare tax out of my paycheck I AM PAYING SOMEONES HEALTH CARE.. EVERYTIME I PAY MY S.S. TAX I AMPAYING SOMEONES HEALTH CARE. Or do you believe that is going into a little account for my personal use?? YOU really are a moron aren't you.

I, by the way work in health care and have for 20 years, I have voluteered countless number of hours and sacrificed a lot of MY time to take care of sick and injured people. I have taken a great deal of time away from MY family to take care of people like you who have no thanks in the heart for what the "health care worker" has to go through.

So tell me JAMES what the fuck have YOU done to deserve any help from ME!!!!!!!!

[Kathianne]

Dude every f***ing time they take the medicare tax out of my paycheck I AM PAYING SOMEONES HEALTH CARE.. EVERYTIME I PAY MY S.S. TAX I AMPAYING SOMEONES HEALTH CARE. Or do you believe that is going into a little account for my personal use?? YOU really are a moron aren't you.

I, by the way work in health care and have for 20 years, I have voluteered countless number of hours and sacrificed a lot of MY time to take care of sick and injured people. I have taken a great deal of time away from MY family to take care of people like you who have no thanks in the heart for what the "health care worker" has to go through.

So tell me JAMES what the fuck have YOU done to deserve any help from ME!!!!!!!!

Ironically James thinks we should all be thrilled to have worse healthcare and pay more, just to take care of him or 'he'll leave this country', (promise, he said.) Yet, seems he resents taxes in general, especially for those he considers undeserving. Hell, he's even for deporting Muslims, just because 'you know that someday...'

[red states rule]

Now we have this gem. Seems James WILL PAY MORE FOR HIS COVERAGE - as will everyone else


White House Tries to Strike Down Insurance Industry Criticism Ahead of Key Vote

The health insurance industry sharply escalates its criticism of the Senate health care bill, charging that the legislation would shift costs to privately insured people, raising the price of policies.



The White House fired back Monday at the health insurance industry for issuing a study that claims the health care reform bill working its way toward a key vote Tuesday will raise the cost of individual coverage by hundreds of dollars a year.

Linda Douglass, spokeswoman with the Office of Health Reform, said in a statement that the timing of the study, released just hours before the Senate Finance Committee is set to vote on its bill, raises questions about its legitimacy. She joined other Democratic officials in trying to keep the analysis from gaining traction.

"This is a self-serving analysis from the insurance industry, one of the major opponents of health insurance reform," she said. "It comes on the eve of a vote that will reduce the industry's profits. It is hard to take it seriously."

But America's Health Insurance Plans, the industry group that sent its member companies the new study late Sunday, stood by the findings.

Spokesman Robert Zirkelbach rejected the suggestion that the study was timed for maximum impact, saying it responded to changes made to the bill over the last few weeks and was only finalized over the weekend. He said AHIP still supports health care reform, but wants to see additional changes made, either in the Finance Committee or later in the process.

"This data is an important part of the health care reform discussion. American people want to know how these provisions are going to impact the cost of health care coverage," he said.

The accounting firm study projects the legislation would add $1,700 a year to the cost of family coverage in 2013, when most of the major provisions in the bill would be in effect.

Premiums for a single person would go up by $600 more than would be the case without the legislation, the PricewaterhouseCoopers analysis concluded in the study commissioned by the insurance group.

"Several major provisions in the current legislative proposal will cause health care costs to increase far faster and higher than they would under the current system," Karen Ignagni, the top industry lobbyist in Washington, wrote in a memo to insurance company CEOs.

The study projected that in 2019, family premiums could be $4,000 higher and individual premiums could be $1,500 higher.


for the complete article
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/10/11/insurers-escalate-criticism-health-overhaul/