Guess Who Has the Highest Medical Claim Rejection Rate?

[red states rule]

The Obama drones are constantly bellowing how insurance companies deny claims to avoid paying out any money

Well, which insurance company has rejected the most claims?

Blue Cross Blue Shield? United Health Care? Humana?

Nope

It was MEDICARE!!!!!!!!




AMA Endorses Largest Denier of Health Care Claims
by Patrick Tuohey

What appears to be the official blog of President Obama’s administration is all aflutter because the President will welcome, “doctors from across the United States to the White House to share their unique perspective on the struggles that American families face every day when it comes to health care.” (They posted today’s agenda in the name of transparency!)

The post even links to a National Public Radio (NPR) story in which a survey of medical professionals indicates they are among the biggest supporters of the so-called “public option.” A co-sponsor of the study, Dr. Alex Federman, indicates that, “physicians favored Medicare when it came to delivering care to patients. They thought Medicare was better when it came to autonomy and their decision making and their ability to get patients the care that they thought the patients needed.”

Furthermore, the American Medical Association (AMA) has endorsed the public option after an appeal from the President and despite, according to ABC News, the fact that “some member physicians at the group’s annual meeting [in June] likened the notion to communism.”

Beverly Gossage, Research Fellow for Show-Me Institute and founder of HSA Benefits Consulting wondered which insurance companies rejected the most claims. She found her answer in the AMA’s own 2008 National Health Insurer Report Card. The chart below appears on page 5 of the 16-page report.

http://biggovernment.com/files/2009/10/AMAdenials.jpg

Of the eight insurers listed, Medicare is most likely to reject a claim, sending away 6.85% of requests. This is more than any private insurer and double that of the private insurers’ average!

In short, the AMA is endorsing a plan whose closest existing example is the most frequent denier of claims. How the public option exemplifies “delivering care to patients” is unclear.

http://biggovernment.com/2009/10/05/ama-endorses-largest-denier-of-health-care-claims/

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. Where was BCBS?
2. Without knowing what was denied its hard to say if M~M is unfair.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,

1. Where was BCBS?
2. Without knowing what was denied its hard to say if M~M is unfair.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Bottom line is James anyone who think the claim rejection rate for Medicare will imporve after adding about 50 MILLION more people to the system is drunk on the Obama Kool Aide

This thread has taken much of the wind out of your sails

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,




Bottom line is James anyone who think the claim rejection rate for Medicare will imporve after adding about 50 MILLION more people to the system is drunk on the Obama Kool Aide

This thread has taken much of the wind out of your sails



1. Not really, my chances havent improved, the way things stand.
2. The ways things are, if I get sick here in USA, I can lose everything Ive worked for.
3. What we have sucks, what we get, who knows for sure.
4. But I already know what we have sucks.
5. So I choose what we dont have, to see if that sucks too.
6. Ive got nothing to lose.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,







1. Not really, my chances havent improved, the way things stand.
2. The ways things are, if I get sick here in USA, I can lose everything Ive worked for.
3. What we have sucks, what we get, who knows for sure.
4. But I already know what we have sucks.
5. So I choose what we dont have, to see if that sucks too.
6. Ive got nothing to lose.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Are you willing you bet your life and the lives of your family, that government run healthcare will be of better quality then the one we have now?

I am not - and so does a majority of the people

So now that we know the government is the biggest denier of medial claims, are they now the "killers" you have compained abiout JAmes? Or are you still on the Obamcare bandwagon?

[red states rule]

Availbale now. Just re-intorduced by the Obama administration. Are you feeling stimulated yet?

http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/155878.jpg

[Trigg]

Sorry bout that,

1. Where was BCBS?
2. Without knowing what was denied its hard to say if M~M is unfair.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Typically they deny claims because they change (every year) how the paperwork is supposed to be filled out.

Every year they send out a manual on the new requirements for paperwork, and they love to make it retroactive for the prior 6 months. That gives the hospitals and private Dr's offices a headache and it gives Medicaid a reason to reject claims. Medicare is famous for demanding that claims be refilled under the new paperwork and then they reject claims because they are "too old".

It's a game the gov. plays every year in order to try to get out of paying bills. Bills, by the way, that are then passed onto people with private insurance.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,




Are you willing you bet your life and the lives of your family, that government run healthcare will be of better quality then the one we have now?

I am not - and so does a majority of the people

So now that we know the government is the biggest denier of medial claims, are they now the "killers" you have compained abiout JAmes? Or are you still on the Obamcare bandwagon?



1. Yes.
2. Yes.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





Typically they deny claims because they change (every year) how the paperwork is supposed to be filled out.

Every year they send out a manual on the new requirements for paperwork, and they love to make it retroactive for the prior 6 months. That gives the hospitals and private Dr's offices a headache and it gives Medicaid a reason to reject claims. Medicare is famous for demanding that claims be refilled under the new paperwork and then they reject claims because they are "too old".

It's a game the gov. plays every year in order to try to get out of paying bills. Bills, by the way, that are then passed onto people with private insurance.




1. Insurance compaines do the same thing.
2. So who's surprised?
3. Not I.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,







1. Yes.
2. Yes.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

So you are so desperate for your share of the pie you are willing to risk your your life and the ives of your family?

I hope you get the help you so deperatly need James

I have UHC and the are the best company for paying claimes as well as the best coverage I ever had. Under Obamacare I could lose that coverage so others can suck up at the trough

That is what libs always want James - spread the misery around equally

[chloe]

Yeah I've heard the government overpays contractors too for military items. I think the government overspends, overpays and does bailouts for ultra rich using our taxpayer money. I was reading some guys blog and he was saying if we didn't have to pay taxes, then those big corps could just bail themselves out sink or swim and we could deal with our own health care including our own choice to practice prevention by exercise, not smking, eating healthy, etc...This country relies too much on the government and that includes Corporations. They should not take handouts.

[red states rule]

Yeah I've heard the government overpays contractors too for military items. I think the government overspends, overpays and does bailouts for ultra rich using our taxpayer money. I was reading some guys blog and he was saying if we didn't have to pay taxes, then those big corps could just bail themselves out sink or swim and we could deal with our own health care including our own choice to practice prevention by exercise, not smking, eating healthy, etc...This country relies too much on the government and that includes Corporations. They should not take handouts.

It is the entitlement mentality the left has instilled on many people. It is amazing to see how many people believe they are entitled to toher peoples money to finance their wants, needs, and desires

Meanwhile, the Dems piss thru trillions of our tax dollars, run up trillions in debt, and still demand we pay more in taxes

[chloe]

It is the entitlement mentality the left has instilled on many people. It is amazing to see how many people believe they are entitled to toher peoples money to finance their wants, needs, and desires

Meanwhile, the Dems piss thru trillions of our tax dollars, run up trillions in debt, and still demand we pay more in taxes

Yeah they are all greedy, these are the times I wish I was religious because then perhaps I would relief might be near eh?

[avatar4321]

Yeah they are all greedy, these are the times I wish I was religious because then perhaps I would relief might be near eh?

Always time to change that:)

[crin63]

The reason the Health Care industry is screwed up in the 1st place is because of government intervention.

The government created HMOs & PPOs to force us into large groups of managed care which is what created the giant insurers and drove prices up.

HMOs were either the 1st or one of the 1st federal government planned health care systems and hows has that worked out for you? It eliminated competition, it consolidated power, it put your medical care in the hands of boards to decide what treatment you will receive and it drove prices up.

By the way I did watch my friend die because the board of directors of his HMO wouldn't spend the money to treat his cancer. At the time we were told that insurance companies pay 90% less to the families of wrongful death lawsuits vs. the lawsuit if the person lives and is maimed, crippled or otherwise unable to live a normal life. He was told that he would not be treated in front of witnesses. Talk about death panels, sounds like HMO board of directors.

[bullypulpit]

So you are so desperate for your share of the pie you are willing to risk your your life and the ives of your family?

I hope you get the help you so deperatly need James

I have UHC and the are the best company for paying claimes as well as the best coverage I ever had. Under Obamacare I could lose that coverage so others can suck up at the trough

That is what libs always want James - spread the misery around equally

Who's been drinking the kool-aid Red? That would be you. The public option is just that...AN OPTION. You can keep your current insurance if you're happy with it, despite the debt incurred through your own medical treatment.

Mitch McChinless (McConnell) was blathering the same shit you are about the public OPTION limiting the choices of consumers. Never mind that when the choices are between death or bankruptcy for the un/under-insured...a government sponsored public OPTION for health insurance is a far better choice.

I see people faced with those choices on a daily basis Red. The uninsured and the underinsured both put off seeking medical care until it is often too late. They come to the ER sicker, they are admitted in far worse condition and have far worse outcomes. Those that don't die as a result spend their time worrying whether or not their hospitalization will bankrupt them.

The health insurance companies must be held accountable, and a robust public OPTION will provide them the competition that has been absent from the health insurance industry. Real competition will drive down insurance costs to consumers across the board. It will reduce the cost of doing business for companies of ALL sizes by giving benefits managers real options in choosing plans that provide the best coverage at the lowest price. The net result of that being a more competitive American workforce in the global market place.

You and your fellow travelers really need to wake the fuck up Red. Health insurance which forces people into bankruptcy for getting sick or dying because they afford the premiums is simply wrong. The system is broken and it will only get worse unless it is changed in a very fundamental way.

[Missileman]

Who's been drinking the kool-aid Red? That would be you. The public option is just that...AN OPTION. You can keep your current insurance if you're happy with it, despite the debt incurred through your own medical treatment.

Mitch McChinless (McConnell) was blathering the same shit you are about the public OPTION limiting the choices of consumers. Never mind that when the choices are between death or bankruptcy for the un/under-insured...a government sponsored public OPTION for health insurance is a far better choice.

I see people faced with those choices on a daily basis Red. The uninsured and the underinsured both put off seeking medical care until it is often too late. They come to the ER sicker, they are admitted in far worse condition and have far worse outcomes. Those that don't die as a result spend their time worrying whether or not their hospitalization will bankrupt them.

The health insurance companies must be held accountable, and a robust public OPTION will provide them the competition that has been absent from the health insurance industry. Real competition will drive down insurance costs to consumers across the board. It will reduce the cost of doing business for companies of ALL sizes by giving benefits managers real options in choosing plans that provide the best coverage at the lowest price. The net result of that being a more competitive American workforce in the global market place.

You and your fellow travelers really need to wake the fuck up Red. Health insurance which forces people into bankruptcy for getting sick or dying because they afford the premiums is simply wrong. The system is broken and it will only get worse unless it is changed in a very fundamental way.

Whyy do you keep ignoring the obvious? The government can not be installed as real competition to the private sector. They get to set the rules AND they don't have to have any regard for the bottom line so they can run at a huge loss and WE wind up paying for it.

[bullypulpit]

Whyy do you keep ignoring the obvious? The government can not be installed as real competition to the private sector. They get to set the rules AND they don't have to have any regard for the bottom line so they can run at a huge loss and WE wind up paying for it.

We're already "paying for it" in the form of higher insurance premiums, higher deductibles and fewer benefits from our current system. From my own experience, I know that an uncomplicated ER visit...labs, ekg, chest x-ray, ER doc's fee, radiologist, etc...costs about $1600. A routine visit to a doctor's office $60 to $150. Bi-annual or quarterly visits to a doctor's office cost far less than a single ER visit, and can help prevent those ER visits by catching preventable and treatable conditions like diabetes and hypertension.

Multiply that by the thousands of people every day who use the ER as their source of primary care, whose visits are anything but uncomplicated because they have little or no access to a primary care doc, and show up far sicker as a result. The costs are passed on to us by hospitals and insurers in the form of higher premiums and deductibles. Higher premiums force more and more employers to drop health coverage forcing more people into the ranks of the uninsured, leading to higher premiums and deductibles which feed the vicious cycle.

Y'all need to get off the crazy train and look at the bigger picture. But that would require a degree of intellectual honesty and effort which y'all have long since abdicated.

[red states rule]

Who's been drinking the kool-aid Red? That would be you. The public option is just that...AN OPTION. You can keep your current insurance if you're happy with it, despite the debt incurred through your own medical treatment.

Mitch McChinless (McConnell) was blathering the same shit you are about the public OPTION limiting the choices of consumers. Never mind that when the choices are between death or bankruptcy for the un/under-insured...a government sponsored public OPTION for health insurance is a far better choice.

I see people faced with those choices on a daily basis Red. The uninsured and the underinsured both put off seeking medical care until it is often too late. They come to the ER sicker, they are admitted in far worse condition and have far worse outcomes. Those that don't die as a result spend their time worrying whether or not their hospitalization will bankrupt them.

The health insurance companies must be held accountable, and a robust public OPTION will provide them the competition that has been absent from the health insurance industry. Real competition will drive down insurance costs to consumers across the board. It will reduce the cost of doing business for companies of ALL sizes by giving benefits managers real options in choosing plans that provide the best coverage at the lowest price. The net result of that being a more competitive American workforce in the global market place.

You and your fellow travelers really need to wake the fuck up Red. Health insurance which forces people into bankruptcy for getting sick or dying because they afford the premiums is simply wrong. The system is broken and it will only get worse unless it is changed in a very fundamental way.

As usual BP you are ignoring the facts. Dems will NOT lower the cost of health ins. Dems will NOT expand care - they will cut it. Dems do NOT want to compete with ins companies - they want them out of business

Dems proved me right when they voted down these Republican proposals. You have seen these before BP on another thread - then ran away without comment

Want to try again and reply?

Keeping a Bad Bill Bad: Democratic Leaders Block 31 Common-Sense Changes to Health Care Bill
Dems Block GOP Amendments to Scrap Government Takeover of Health Care, Stop Job-Killing Employer Mandate and Small Business Tax

Washington, Jul 28 - The Democratic leadership in Congress appears determined to produce a costly, job-killing health care bill that few outside the Washington Beltway support. For evidence, one need only look at the long list of common-sense changes House Republicans proposed this month while the bill was being considered by the Ways & Means, Energy & Commerce, and Education & Labor Committees. These amendments, which were designed to make the health care bill more palatable to the American people, were unceremoniously crushed by Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and her committee chairmen with little public attention or debate. Here are 31 common-sense health care amendments that were offered by Republican legislators in committee, but killed by the Democratic leadership:

- Stop the government-run health plan. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) offered an amendment to improve the Democratic legislation by taking out the section of the bill that would create a government-run health plan to compete with private sector health plans. Reps. Phil Roe (R-TN) and John Kline (R-MN) offered similar amendments in the Education & Labor Committee. The GOP amendments were all killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and her chairmen.

- Prevent bureaucrats from making personal medical decisions for patients. Rep. Phil Gingrey, M.D. (R-GA) offered an amendment in the Energy & Commerce Committee to bar federal political appointees and bureaucrats from intervening in patient treatment decisions. The Gingrey amendment would have ensured patients and doctors remain as the sole individuals responsible for making these critical decisions. Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) led Democrats in opposition to the amendment, which was defeated.

- Require all Members of Congress to get their health insurance through the proposed government-run plan. Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV) offered an amendment in the Ways & Means Committee that would have required Members of Congress to enroll immediately in the government-run health plan that would be established under the Democratic bill. Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) offered an amendment to put his committee on the record in support of enrolling Members of Congress in the government-run plan as well. While the Wilson amendment was approved by voice vote in the Education & Labor Committee, the Heller amendment was killed in the Ways & Means Committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.

- Establish a $1 trillion deficit cap. During Energy & Commerce Committee consideration of the Democrats’ government-run health care plan, Rep. Lee Terry (R-NE) offered an amendment to delay “disease prevention” spending for items like municipal jungle gyms and bicycle trails until Washington’s budget deficit dips below $1 trillion. Democrats defeated the amendment, paving the way for more unchecked spending.



- Keep the federal government out of health care decisions. Rep. Wally Herger (R-CA) offered an amendment to prohibit the federal government from conducting so-called comparative effectiveness research, in which the federal government would ultimately help determine which medical treatments are administered to whom in America – otherwise known as government rationing of health care. The Herger amendment was killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel. Days later, in a July 22 prime-time press conference, President Obama told the nation the health care bill “will keep government out of health care decisions,” despite the fact that the comparative effectiveness language remains in the bill.


- Protect Americans from “hurry up and wait.” Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) offered an amendment that would repeal the government-run health plan if wait times exceed the average wait times in private plans. The Brady amendment was killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Stop the job-killing employer mandate. Rep. Sam Johnson (R-TX) offered an amendment in the Committee on Ways & Means to improve the Democratic legislation by taking out the section of the bill that requires American employers to provide health coverage for all of their employees, and Reps. Brett Guthrie (R-KY) and Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA) offered similar amendments in the Committee on Education & Labor. Independent analysts agree this Democratic mandate on employers is likely to result in the elimination of millions of American jobs, and it could hardly come at a worse moment for the nation’s economy. The GOP amendments were killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi.


- Suspend the job-killing employer mandate if the national unemployment rate reaches 10 percent. Reps. Wally Herger (R-CA) and Pete Hoekstra (R-MI) offered amendments in their committees that would suspend the job-killing employer mandate in the Democratic bill if the national unemployment rate reaches or goes above 10 percent. (It is currently at 9.5 percent, with the new number expected to be released on Friday, August 7). The Herger and Hoekstra amendments were killed in both the Ways & Means and Education & Labor Committees at the behest of Speaker Pelosi.


- Waive the employer mandate if it will cause layoffs, worker salary cuts, or reductions in hiring. Rep. Dave Reichert (R-WA) offered an amendment that would waive the employer mandate in the Democrats’ health care bill for any employer who certifies, under procedures developed by the Secretary of the Treasury, that it would pose a financial hardship resulting in layoffs of existing workers, reductions in salary of existing workers, or the inability to expand via hiring new employees. Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) offered a similar amendment in the Education & Labor Committee, and it was adopted by voice vote. However, the Reichert amendment was killed in the Ways & Means Committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Protect employers from unfair taxation. Under the Democratic bill as written, if an employer offers qualifying health care coverage but an employee rejects it for any reason, the employer can still be slapped with an 8 percent tax on the value of that employee’s wages as a result of the job-killing employer mandate in the bill. Rep. Geoff Davis (R-KY) offered an amendment to fix this problem and protect employers from such unfair penalization. The Davis amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Protect employers who offer health care coverage to their workers. As written, the Democratic health care bill would gut ERISA (the Employee Retirement Income Security Act), the federal law that makes it possible for millions of American workers to receive quality health care benefits and other benefits through their employers. Rep. John Kline (R-MN) offered an amendment to fix this flaw and shield employers who offer health care coverage to their workers from being caught up in a web of legal liability systems that would vary from state to state. The Kline amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Create small business health plans. Rep. Howard P. “Buck” McKeon (R-CA) offered an amendment that would modify the Democratic bill to allow the creation of small business health plans (also known as Association Health Plans) that allow trade, industry, professional, or other business associations to form and purchase health care coverage at a lower cost. The McKeon amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Keep unnecessary lawsuits from driving up health costs. Under the Democratic bill, Americans would be required to obtain their health care through a “national health insurance exchange” that is limited to “qualified” providers. In the Ways & Means Committee, Rep. John Linder (R-GA) offered an amendment that would keep the so-called exchange from operating in states that do not have reasonable limits on lawsuits relating to medical care. Unnecessary lawsuits have long been identified as one of the primary factors in rising health costs nationwide. Rep. Glenn Thompson (R-PA) offered a similar amendment in the Education & Labor Committee that would prevent the creation of the so-called “exchange.” Both the Linder and Thompson amendments were killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi.


- Prevent taxpayer-funded health benefits from going to illegal immigrants. Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV) offered an amendment that would increase safeguards to ensure taxpayer-funded benefits do not go to individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States. This amendment, too, was killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Prevent taxpayer funding of abortion. Reps. Sam Johnson (R-TX), Eric Cantor (R-VA) and Mark Souder (R-IN) offered amendments to remove language from the Democratic legislation that would result in American taxpayers subsidizing abortion-on-demand. A recent Zogby survey determined that more than 70 percent of Americans are opposed to taxpayer funding of abortion. Speaker Pelosi and her committee chairmen killed all of these amendments.

- Ensure states are not forced to provide abortion benefits. In the Energy & Commerce Committee, Rep. Nathan Deal (R-GA) offered an amendment to ensure that states are not required to provide coverage for abortion – or even procedures such as Botox injections and hair plugs. Under the Democrats’ legislation, the federal government could deny the states funding if such services are not provided. Democrats rejected Rep. Deal’s amendment in a party-line vote.

- Prevent health care providers from being forced into a government-run plan. Rep. Charles Boustany, M.D. (R-LA), a physician, offered an amendment to prevent American health care providers from being forced into the government-run plan established under the Democratic bill. The Boustany amendment was killed in committee by Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Require the government-run plan to operate under the same rules as private health plans. Rep. Boustany offered an amendment to improve the Democratic legislation by requiring that the government-run plan established in the bill maintain reserves and other margins in amounts consistent with the standards that apply to private plans. Reserves would have to come from premiums, not federal subsidies. This amendment was killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Specify that Congress should read the health care bill before voting on it. Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) offered an amendment expressing the sense of Congress that Members of Congress should read the health care bill before they vote on it. More than 80 House Republicans have signed a pledge vowing they will not vote to enact a health care bill they have not read and which has not been posted online publicly for at least 72 hours. Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD), by contrast, reportedly scoffed at the notion of reading the bill before voting on it. The Brady amendment was defeated in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Keep President Obama’s tax pledge not to raise taxes. Last year, in his campaign for the presidency, President Obama pledged he would not raise taxes on anyone making less than $200,000 ($250,000 for those filing jointly), but the health care legislation written by House Democrats would violate this pledge. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) offered an amendment that would keep the new taxes proposed in the Democratic legislation from applying to those with incomes under $200,000 ($250,000 for those filing jointly). The Ryan amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel. Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA) offered a similar amendment in the Education & Labor Committee. It was not even allowed to come to a vote by Chairman Miller.


- Keep President Obama’s pledge that health care reform will not add to the deficit. Rep. Tom McClintock (R-CA) offered an amendment to prohibit the government-controlled health care system from taking effect unless the legislation is and remains “deficit neutral.” The Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the nonpartisan “scorekeeper” for Congress, has determined that the bill as drafted will add hundreds of billions of dollars to the deficit. The McClintock amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Ensure that workers who like their current health plan can keep it. Reps. Judy Biggert (R-IL) and Tom Price (R-GA) offered an amendment to ensure that Americans who like their current employer-provided coverage can keep it by shielding such coverage from the costly and complex new mandates in the Democratic health care bill. Under the amendment, employer –based health plans that comply with ERISA (the Employee Retirement Income Security Act), the federal law that makes it possible for millions of American workers to receive quality health care benefits and other benefits through their employers, would be considered as having met all of the mandates specified in the bill. The Biggert-Price amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Ensure Americans cannot be forced into a government-run health care plan. Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite (R-FL) offered an amendment that would prohibit the federal government from automatically enrolling Americans in the government-run health plan that would be created under the Democratic health care bill, allowing Americans to choose whether or not they want to be enrolled in such a plan. The Brown-Waite amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel. Similarly, Rep. John Kline (R-MN) offered an amendment to allow workers to choose to keep their current health care coverage by signing cards stating that they do not want their existing employer-provided coverage to be subject to the new mandates of the Democrats’ health care reform bill. This is modeled in the “card check” method Democratic leaders have advocated in conjunction with Washington-based union bosses. The Kline amendment was defeated at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Stop seniors from being stripped of their health care choices. Rep. Brown-Waite offered an amendment that would remove portions of the Democratic health care bill that would cut the Medicare Advantage program. Such cuts would impact millions of seniors nationwide, taking away their choices and forcing them into a government-run health care plan with fewer options. The Brown-Waite amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Prohibit unfair advantages for government-run health plan. The Democratic health care bill would create a government-run health care plan to “compete” with private sector plans that currently provide health coverage for millions of Americans. House Republican Conference Chairman Mike Pence (R-IN) has warned that a government-run health care plan will compete with private sector health plans “the way an alligator competes with a duck,” and the legislation written by Democrats would allow the government-run health plan to have distinct advantages at the expense of taxpayers and private plan enrollees. Rep. Peter Roskam (R-IL) offered an amendment that would prohibit the Secretary of Health & Human Services from basing payment rates for the government-run health plan established under the Democratic bill on Medicare rates, and instead would require that they pay an average of what private plans in the market pay. The Roskam amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Keep the federal government from choosing “favored” physicians. Rep. Tom Price (R-GA), a physician, offered an amendment to keep eliminate the flawed “tiered” payment structure in the Democratic health care bill, which would give preference to physicians who participate in the government-run health care plan. This provision would allow the government to reward physicians who play by its rules while financially harming those who do not. The Price amendment was defeated at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Allow states to opt out. Bipartisan opposition to the Democratic health care bill has been expressed by governors and state legislators throughout the country. Rep. Price offered an amendment to permit states that have crafted their own health plans to apply for waivers from the Democratic legislation’s requirements. The Price amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Preserve Americans’ health care freedom and choice. Many Americans favor Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), which give individual Americans more direct control over their health care spending, but the Democratic bill as written would wreak havoc on HSAs and similar tools that empower individuals and consumers. Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA) offered an amendment to improve the Democratic bill by ensuring that HSAs would not be shut down or gutted by federal mandates. Specifically, the Cantor amendment stated that HSAs tied to high deductible health plans are deemed to meet the “minimum benefit level requirements” under the Democratic bill, and struck changes to the bill’s “definition of allowable medical expenses” for HSAs and similar accounts. The Cantor amendment was defeated in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel. Rep. Tom Price (R-GA) offered an amendment to provide greater portability and individual control over health care by allowing employers to contribute to “defined contribution” health care plans, which workers could use to purchase the coverage and services of their choice. The Price amendment was defeated in the Education & Labor Committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Miller.


- Allow Americans to continue to enroll in private individual market health plans. Rep. Dave Reichert (R-WA) offered an amendment to repeal the Democratic bill’s prohibition on new enrollees in private individual market plans. This amendment was killed at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Slow Medicare’s march toward bankruptcy. Concerned about the coming fiscal tsunami that will result from out-of-control spending on entitlement programs, the GOP-led Congress earlier this decade passed legislation specifying that if 45 percent or more of the Medicare program's funding came from general tax revenues for two consecutive years, the President had to submit to Congress legislation that would slow spending and make the program financially stable. Democrats gutted this rule as part of their rules package for the current Congress. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) offered an amendment to restore it. The amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.


- Prohibit new taxes until Medicare fraud rate is reduced to below 1 percent. Rep. Dave Camp (R-MI) offered an amendment to improve the Democratic bill by specifying that the new taxes that would be imposed on Americans under the bill could not take effect unless the fraud rate in Medicare is reduced to below 1 percent of the amount of taxpayer money spent on the program. The Camp amendment was killed in committee at the behest of Speaker Pelosi and Chairman Rangel.

[Missileman]

We're already "paying for it" in the form of higher insurance premiums, higher deductibles and fewer benefits from our current system. From my own experience, I know that an uncomplicated ER visit...labs, ekg, chest x-ray, ER doc's fee, radiologist, etc...costs about $1600. A routine visit to a doctor's office $60 to $150. Bi-annual or quarterly visits to a doctor's office cost far less than a single ER visit, and can help prevent those ER visits by catching preventable and treatable conditions like diabetes and hypertension.

Multiply that by the thousands of people every day who use the ER as their source of primary care, whose visits are anything but uncomplicated because they have little or no access to a primary care doc, and show up far sicker as a result. The costs are passed on to us by hospitals and insurers in the form of higher premiums and deductibles. Higher premiums force more and more employers to drop health coverage forcing more people into the ranks of the uninsured, leading to higher premiums and deductibles which feed the vicious cycle.

Y'all need to get off the crazy train and look at the bigger picture. But that would require a degree of intellectual honesty and effort which y'all have long since abdicated.

If the government going into competition with the private sector is such a great idea, why stop at health insurance? Let's open government-run supermarkets, hamburger stands, appliance stores, gas stations, etc.

There are several steps short of a destructive public option that would bring down insurance prices.

[red states rule]

If the government going into competition with the private sector is such a great idea, why stop at health insurance? Let's open government-run supermarkets, hamburger stands, appliance stores, gas stations, etc.

There are several steps short of a destructive public option that would bring down insurance prices.

Yes there are - and Republicans offered up many of them, only to have Dems vote them down

What BP and the other Obama drones refuse to accept and/or admit - Dems are not out to lower the cost of healthcare and health ins - they want to take it over and run it

[sgtdmski]

Who's been drinking the kool-aid Red? That would be you. The public option is just that...AN OPTION. You can keep your current insurance if you're happy with it, despite the debt incurred through your own medical treatment.

Mitch McChinless (McConnell) was blathering the same shit you are about the public OPTION limiting the choices of consumers. Never mind that when the choices are between death or bankruptcy for the un/under-insured...a government sponsored public OPTION for health insurance is a far better choice.

I see people faced with those choices on a daily basis Red. The uninsured and the underinsured both put off seeking medical care until it is often too late. They come to the ER sicker, they are admitted in far worse condition and have far worse outcomes. Those that don't die as a result spend their time worrying whether or not their hospitalization will bankrupt them.

The health insurance companies must be held accountable, and a robust public OPTION will provide them the competition that has been absent from the health insurance industry. Real competition will drive down insurance costs to consumers across the board. It will reduce the cost of doing business for companies of ALL sizes by giving benefits managers real options in choosing plans that provide the best coverage at the lowest price. The net result of that being a more competitive American workforce in the global market place.

You and your fellow travelers really need to wake the fuck up Red. Health insurance which forces people into bankruptcy for getting sick or dying because they afford the premiums is simply wrong. The system is broken and it will only get worse unless it is changed in a very fundamental way.

The reason the system is broken is not the doing of the insurance companies, but rather the legislation enacted by the Congress. Tell me, the government is trying to invent a public option that will compete with the private companies, yet because it is run by the government it will have unlimited funds, if it overspends its money it will not go bankrupt but instead pass on the cost to future taxpayers, unfortunately a private company does not have that option, if it runs out of money it will fail.

Secondly, tell me why has Congress allowed legislation that limits competitiveness? Currently Medical Insurance cannot be purchased in one state and used in another. Why? If you want more competition perhaps Congress should get rid of this regulation first. For instance the average cost for premiums in Massachusetts is $8537 for an individual policy, in neighboring Rhode Island the average cost for premiums is $4412. Without the regulation requiring insurance to only be available in a single state, Massachusetts Residents could lower there cost by purchasing insurance from Rhode Island companies, thereby causing companies in their state to lower cost, but unfortunately Congress does not allow this so those who live in Massachusetts are screwed and forced to pay higher costs.

Link to data (http://www.ahipresearch.org/pdfs/Individual_Market_Survey_December_2007.pdf)

Your right the system is broken and must be fixed by government run healthcare will only make the system worse. Despite the praise given, usually from those in this country, to the European model or Canadian Model, the fact remains that many of their residents travel outside of their own country for medical care. In fact, Canada which has a total government run system and for a time had made private medical illegal is no beginning to introduce private companies. It would seem that government run care cannot handle the peoples needs.

We will see no change in Medical care until we have real reform. That includes regulatory reform, tort reform and requiring that even those who receive government care have a financial responsibility added to their care.

dmk

[red states rule]

Looks like BP has had enough of facts and has left (i.e ran away) from yet another thread

Tell me BP, why do you post on a debate board when you NEVER debate?

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Myself and Bullypulpit are in perfect agreement.
2. I go with the doctor on this debate.
3. He see's this crap every day man!
4. And knows just how screwed up it is.
5. What we have is a human nightmare, not unlike the Holocaust.
6. People being held up, *Your Money Or Your Life*, with the Jews of WWII, it was, *Your Money And Your Life*, one exception.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Missileman]

C'mon Bully...ya got nothin to say about #20?

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,


1. Myself and Bullypulpit are in perfect agreement.
2. I go with the doctor on this debate.
3. He see's this crap every day man!
4. And knows just how screwed up it is.
5. What we have is a human nightmare, not unlike the Holocaust.
6. People being held up, *Your Money Or Your Life*, with the Jews of WWII, it was, *Your Money And Your Life*, one exception.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

and like BP you ignore post 19 which shows that Republicans offered ideas that would actually lower the cost of healthcare, and provide more choice for the buyer

Of course Dems voted them down since that is NOT what they want to do. They want to takeover the healthcare industry and make the Feds the only game in town

[chesswarsnow]

SOrry bout that,


1. Whats the hold up, they got the votes, just do it.
2. They can ram this through next week.
3. I say getter done!
4. What we have is a disgrace.
5. What we may get might turn into it too.
6. But what we know now, this reality sucks.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

SOrry bout that,


1. Whats the hold up, they got the votes, just do it.
2. They can ram this through next week.
3. I say getter done!
4. What we have is a disgrace.
5. What we may get might turn into it too.
6. But what we know now, this reality sucks.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Maybe because the folks in the conservative Dem districts have made it know they think Obamacare sucks. They do not to pay more in taxes. They do not want more power for the Federal government. They are happy with their health ins and do not want to lost it. They do not want rationed care as happens in every country with Obamacare

Need more reasons James - or is this enough for you?