The Case To Destroy America

[Pale Rider]

The Case To Destroy America



FOR THOSE OF YOU ON THE "CONSERVATIVE" SIDE OF THE FENCE, READ THIS AND LEARN TO UNDERSTAND YOUR FEELINGS BETTER. FOR THOSE OF YOU NOT ON THE "CONSERVATIVE" SIDE OF THE FENCE, PLEASE READ AND LEARN A DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT.



Wherever you stand, please take the time to read this; it ought to scare the pants off you!


We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of America's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.


Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"


"Here is how they do it," Lamm said: "First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country." History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: "The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy." Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans. Spain has Basques".


Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America , "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. Make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. Make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds".


Third, "We could make the United States a 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: " The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together." Lamm said, "I would encourageall immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."


"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."


"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."


"My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship, and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common Language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" --From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as surely as Yugoslavia."


"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' of the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."

In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said,. "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book "Mexifornia." His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."


There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Even barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."


Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path especially The American Dream.

[stephanie]

Unfortunately......It might already be too late...Sad

[Pale Rider]

Unfortunately......It might already be too late...Sad

I think as long as there's adequate support, it's not too late. Unfortunately, there's far too much complacency and ignorance in America today. But it won't be too much longer, and people are going to be FORCED to deal with this problem. There won't be anymore, "maybe if I ignore it, it'll go away".

[Sitarro]

I remember Governor Lamm giving that speech over ten years ago, it was reprinted on the editorial page in the Rocky Mountain News. He was brilliant in his observations back then and unfortunately very few listened. What happened to Imus is just a continuation of the changes to our country and it is very alarming. They have done their best to destroy him and yet he is responsible for getting many together to raise millions for the very people that they claim to be protecting.

We are losing it and the fools don't even realize it, they think this is progress.

[Mr. P]

Lamm was dead on. The Country I grew up in no longer exists and it happened overnight. Ask any of the older members here and I have no doubt they’ll agree.

Politically there was a difference between parties, platforms were specific and distinct.
Each had stated goals. Now it seem nether have a platform, if they mention one it’s nothing more than the issue of the day, tomorrow will be different. They can look in the mirror and see the other staring back at them.

Politicians once were at least 30% servants and 70% politician and 50% of the people pai attention. Now the majority is 100% politician and the people are oblivious.

People used to work hard to build a good life. That was a shared goal in society. That group seems to have faded into the sunset. What emerged to take its place is a group that want you to work hard for everyone else, to live your life to benefit others not yourself.

Schools used to be able to remove disruptive students so education could continue.
Now it almost takes a court order to do so and education has come to a crawl. Teachers taught, now they look for tenure. If a kid showed up at school in a new car the family was most likely rich. Today all kids seem to drive new cars and they’re spoiled brats.

Business was able to cull the dead wood from the employee pool. Now the fear of lawsuits and the inability to maintain control of the business and profit has forced shutdowns and much relocation. Wages were set by the market, now outside forces demand higher pay for less work, not economically feasible and many small businesses close their doors.

Just a few of the major changes I’ve seen occur in my life.

And yes, I walked two miles to school in the snow, barefoot. But my mom walked 5 so I guess I was better off; I doubt my daughter will be able to make the same claim when she’s my age.

This destructive snowball rolling across the Country is getting bigger by the day. Pray for global warming, maybe we can melt it.

[Gunny]

Lamm was dead on. The Country I grew up in no longer exists and it happened overnight. Ask any of the older members here and I have no doubt they’ll agree.

Politically there was a difference between parties, platforms were specific and distinct.
Each had stated goals. Now it seem nether have a platform, if they mention one it’s nothing more than the issue of the day, tomorrow will be different. They can look in the mirror and see the other staring back at them.

Politicians once were at least 30% servants and 70% politician and 50% of the people pai attention. Now the majority is 100% politician and the people are oblivious.

People used to work hard to build a good life. That was a shared goal in society. That group seems to have faded into the sunset. What emerged to take its place is a group that want you to work hard for everyone else, to live your life to benefit others not yourself.

Schools used to be able to remove disruptive students so education could continue.
Now it almost takes a court order to do so and education has come to a crawl. Teachers taught, now they look for tenure. If a kid showed up at school in a new car the family was most likely rich. Today all kids seem to drive new cars and they’re spoiled brats.

Business was able to cull the dead wood from the employee pool. Now the fear of lawsuits and the inability to maintain control of the business and profit has forced shutdowns and much relocation. Wages were set by the market, now outside forces demand higher pay for less work, not economically feasible and many small businesses close their doors.

Just a few of the major changes I’ve seen occur in my life.

And yes, I walked two miles to school in the snow, barefoot. But my mom walked 5 so I guess I was better off; I doubt my daughter will be able to make the same claim when she’s my age.

This destructive snowball rolling across the Country is getting bigger by the day. Pray for global warming, maybe we can melt it.

:clap:

Nice. Well-said.

[gabosaurus]

Is this from TownHall or Little Green Footballs?

[avatar4321]

Lamm was dead on. The Country I grew up in no longer exists and it happened overnight. Ask any of the older members here and I have no doubt they’ll agree.

Politically there was a difference between parties, platforms were specific and distinct.
Each had stated goals. Now it seem nether have a platform, if they mention one it’s nothing more than the issue of the day, tomorrow will be different. They can look in the mirror and see the other staring back at them.

Politicians once were at least 30% servants and 70% politician and 50% of the people pai attention. Now the majority is 100% politician and the people are oblivious.

People used to work hard to build a good life. That was a shared goal in society. That group seems to have faded into the sunset. What emerged to take its place is a group that want you to work hard for everyone else, to live your life to benefit others not yourself.

Schools used to be able to remove disruptive students so education could continue.
Now it almost takes a court order to do so and education has come to a crawl. Teachers taught, now they look for tenure. If a kid showed up at school in a new car the family was most likely rich. Today all kids seem to drive new cars and they’re spoiled brats.

Business was able to cull the dead wood from the employee pool. Now the fear of lawsuits and the inability to maintain control of the business and profit has forced shutdowns and much relocation. Wages were set by the market, now outside forces demand higher pay for less work, not economically feasible and many small businesses close their doors.

Just a few of the major changes I’ve seen occur in my life.

And yes, I walked two miles to school in the snow, barefoot. But my mom walked 5 so I guess I was better off; I doubt my daughter will be able to make the same claim when she’s my age.

This destructive snowball rolling across the Country is getting bigger by the day. Pray for global warming, maybe we can melt it.

Then maybe its time we set things right...

[gabosaurus]

Idiots like this need to implode.

[Gunny]

Is this from TownHall or Little Green Footballs?

Are you entering yourself as evidence to support Mr. P's post? I can't think of many better examples.

[Mr. P]

Then maybe its time we set things right...

Past time, Av. Now we need to wake the masses.

[Pale Rider]

Past time, Av. Now we need to wake the masses.

Oddly enough, I think that maybe the masses are awakening. That old "silent majority" I think is finding it's voice. The liberals had their way with the country with control of the house and senate for almost forty years, and it's taking time for all the crap they created to come home to roust. That and the fact that in the last election politicians got a good taste of people sick and tired of the status quo.

I think, and hope, that there's major change on the horizon.

[Nuc]

Oddly enough, I think that maybe the masses are awakening. That old "silent majority" I think is finding it's voice. The liberals had their way with the country with control of the house and senate for almost forty years, and it's taking time for all the crap they created to come home to roust. That and the fact that in the last election politicians got a good taste of people sick and tired of the status quo.

I think, and hope, that there's major change on the horizon.

So how will this change force people to learn English, become literate, stop having children out of wedlock, get jobs and become productive? The majority being disgusted is not enough to change that stuff.

[avatar4321]

So how will this change force people to learn English, become literate, stop having children out of wedlock, get jobs and become productive? The majority being disgusted is not enough to change that stuff.

If you teach people good principles, you don't have to force them to do anything, they will choose to live those principles on their own.

[Gunny]

If you teach people good principles, you don't have to force them to do anything, they will choose to live those principles on their own.

Problem is, a lot of thoe good prinicples have been lost to time. Today's generation sees them as inconvenient and intrusions. The last generations to believe in them were taught them, but not the reasons for them. Some may still mouth them, but we as a society have forgotten where we came from.

To reinstill those principles now would require legislation and enforcement, and the secular progrssives will see to it that never happens.

And I disagree the silent majority is waking up. The silent majority only wakes up when it gets slapped, and has the attention span of a two-years-old.

[Pale Rider]

So how will this change force people to learn English, become literate, stop having children out of wedlock, get jobs and become productive? The majority being disgusted is not enough to change that stuff.

The push to make english the official language is gaining momentum. The push to do something "worth while" on the border is gaining momentum. The push to get back to Christian roots is gaining momentum. This is due to two main reasons, one, terrorism/radical islam, and two, liberal elitism that is bearing forth proof that they don't have the slightest damn idea what the fuck they're doing.

[Gaffer]

The push to make english the official language is gaining momentum. The push to do something "worth while" on the border is gaining momentum. The push to get back to Christian roots is gaining momentum. This is due to two main reasons, one, terrorism/radical islam, and two, liberal elitism that is bearing forth proof that they don't have the slightest damn idea what the fuck they're doing.

I agree with the exception I think the lib elite know exactly what they are doing. Their biggest problem is that many of us are becoming more aware of what they are doing as well.

[typomaniac]

I agree with the exception I think the lib elite know exactly what they are doing. Their biggest problem is that many of us are becoming more aware of what they are doing as well.It's your own rightwing heroes who are bringing in all that cheap Mexican labor, I'm afraid.

Keep giving them a pass and you're the one who will make it worse.

[Gaffer]

It's your own rightwing heroes who are bringing in all that cheap Mexican labor, I'm afraid.

Keep giving them a pass and you're the one who will make it worse.

yep big business wants the cheap labor, while the libs want the votes they bring with them. It's a vicious circle and we ALL lose.

[Pale Rider]

I agree with the exception I think the lib elite know exactly what they are doing. Their biggest problem is that many of us are becoming more aware of what they are doing as well.

I'll rephrase it... "liberals know what they're doing, they just have no realization how wrong they are," because liberals will tell you themselves, they're NEVER wrong.

[Pale Rider]

It's your own rightwing heroes who are bringing in all that cheap Mexican labor, I'm afraid.

Keep giving them a pass and you're the one who will make it worse.

I'll admit, Bush is at the top of the list for ignoring this problem, so go ahead, beat up on him for that. But at the same time, you must admit it's you liberals trying desperately to create another group of downtrodden, uneducated, dependents, looking for something for free. It is you liberals that are WHORING yourself out to the illegals just for sake of votes.

[typomaniac]

I'll admit, Bush is at the top of the list for ignoring this problem, so go ahead, beat up on him for that. But at the same time, you must admit it's you liberals trying desperately to create another group of downtrodden, uneducated, dependents, looking for something for free. It is you liberals that are WHORING yourself out to the illegals just for sake of votes.Some of us are. Unfortunately. Good news is, more people in the legal immigrant communities are now beginning to distance themselves from the illegals. So this sort of pandering will soon lose its audience. :poke:

[Gunny]

Some of us are. Unfortunately. Good news is, more people in the legal immigrant communities are now beginning to distance themselves from the illegals. So this sort of pandering will soon lose its audience. :poke:

Move about 300 miles south and get back to me.:poke:

[Kathianne]

Some of us are. Unfortunately. Good news is, more people in the legal immigrant communities are now beginning to distance themselves from the illegals. So this sort of pandering will soon lose its audience. :poke:

If I understand you correctly, there should be differences made between 'immigrants' and 'illegal immigrants', no argument here. I think immigrants are the best this country has. If not for the constant influx we'd be Europe.

Yeah I know about Europe and immigrants, but they never have tried to assimilate them, which I believe is the backbone of our success since the 18th C.

[typomaniac]

Move about 300 miles south and get back to me.Already did. I spent 4 years living in the hellhole known as LA county. Trust me, it ain't that different from San Jose.

If I understand you correctly, there should be differences made between 'immigrants' and 'illegal immigrants', no argument here. I think immigrants are the best this country has. If not for the constant influx we'd be Europe.

Yeah I know about Europe and immigrants, but they never have tried to assimilate them, which I believe is the backbone of our success since the 18th C.Absolutely there should be differences between immigrating legally and illegally.

You bring up an interesting point about assimilation, though. The Chinese had a great method of assimilation: they encouraged the citizens and the immigrants to intermarry.

I wonder how THAT would go over with the "religious" right? :eek:

[Kathianne]

Already did. I spent 4 years living in the hellhole known as LA county. Trust me, it ain't that different from San Jose.
Absolutely there should be differences between immigrating legally and illegally.

You bring up an interesting point about assimilation, though. The Chinese had a great method of assimilation: they encouraged the citizens and the immigrants to intermarry.

I wonder how THAT would go over with the "religious" right? :eek:

Wow, you've posted something I've NEVER come in contact with: Chinese dealing with outsiders. Please post links.

From all I've learned, History BA, endorsed in Far East Studies, I've never known the Chinese communist or not, to go for any sort of outsiders. This is too cool!

[typomaniac]

Wow, you've posted something I've NEVER come in contact with: Chinese dealing with outsiders. Please post links.

From all I've learned, History BA, endorsed in Far East Studies, I've never known the Chinese communist or not, to go for any sort of outsiders. This is too cool!You're right that the Chinese government doesn't allow long-term immigration anymore, but it's definitely a part of that culture's history.

For example, they did a good job of assimilating the Jewish immigrants (http://faculty.rmwc.edu/fwebb/buck/eaandrijcic/chinesejews.html) that date back to the trade with Europe along the Silk Road. Although there are still practicing Jews in China today (descended from this community), they're all ethnically Chinese.

[Kathianne]

You're right that the Chinese government doesn't allow long-term immigration anymore, but it's definitely a part of that culture's history.

For example, they did a good job of assimilating the Jewish immigrants (http://faculty.rmwc.edu/fwebb/buck/eaandrijcic/chinesejews.html) that date back to the trade with Europe along the Silk Road. Although there are still practicing Jews in China today (descended from this community), they're all ethnically Chinese.

From your site




Chinese Jews




Chinese name for Jews.


~ The Silk Road
~ The First Immigration
~ Jewish Community in Kaifeng
~ First Interaction Between Chinese Jews and Europeans
~ The Jesuits
~ Jewish Community in Kaifeng Nowadays



Little is known about the Chinese Jews and their history and culture. I tried to sum all the information that I have gathered to present a short review of their history.


The Silk Road:

The Silk Road was one of the most important trade routes that connected the Western world with China and Mongolia. It was a route where silk, gold, ivory, exotic animals, plants, precious stones, metals, glass and many other goods were traded. It was a place where traders from all over the world would meet to purchase new and unknown items. Of all the different commodities that were carried along the Silk Road, religion was the most important one. Buddhism, Islam, Judaism and Christianity came to China that way. The height of importance of the Silk Road was during the Tang dynasty (618-906 C.E.). Afterwards its importance was diminished because of the emergence of sea trade and because of the isolation policies of the Ming dynasty. The first Jewish immigration to China is connected with the existence of the Silk Road.


The First Immigration:

As the Jewish Encyclopedia states, different evidence shows different dates of the first arrival of Jews to China. The oral tradition of the Jews sets the first immigration between the years 206 B.C.E. and 221 B.C.E. during the ruling of the Han dynasty. Sulaiman, a Jewish trader of the 19th century, places it in the year 231 C.E., and he connects it with the first persecution of Jews in Persia. Some Hebrew letters and notes found along the Silk Road suggest that Jewish traders were coming to China as early as the 8th century during the Tang dynasty (618-906 C.E.). Other documents state that the first immigration occurred in 1127 C.E., and that Jews came from India or Persia.


Jewish Community in Kaifeng:

During the Northern Sung dynasty (960-1127 C.E.) a Jewish community of about 10,000 people existed in Kaifeng, which at the time was the capital of China. At the beginning Jewish people were seen as the mighty men of commerce because they held an important position in the Silk Road trade. Their community was rich and the individuals were well connected. They had a synagogue; they observed Jewish holidays and traditions and practiced their religion. Their synagogue was called The Temple of Purity and Truth and was first constructed in 1163. It was set in the typical Chinese courtyard and was surrounded by many pavilions that were dedicated to their Jewish ancestors. Inside of the synagogue there was a sign that proclaimed, "Long live the great Qing emperor." That sign was a requirement for all the worship places. However, above that sign another sign had been placed. It was the Shema that said:



"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one God, Blessed be the name of the Glory of his Kingdom forever and ever."




It was written in Hebrew so that only Jewish people and God could read it, and it was placed above the other sign to show that the God is above all others. Two stone monuments used to be in the courtyard of the synagogue. The inscriptions found on them support the existence of Jews in China.




Bird's-eye view of the temple buildings at Kaifeng, China.






First Interaction Between Chinese Jews and Europeans:

European Jews first found out about the Chinese Jews when the first European missionaries came to China in the 17th century. Matteo Ricci, an Italian Jesuit missionary, was the first westerner to discover the synagogue. He reported that Chinese Jews practiced circumcision and prayed facing westwards, toward Jerusalem, three times a day. He also reported that Chinese Jews adopted a notion of paternal descent, which means that they inherited their religion from their fathers and not their mothers like other Jewish people. Jewish assimilation with Muslims and Chinese had already begun. Many missionaries that came to China after Matteo Ricci reported that there were a few families in Kaifeng, Jewish in name only, who lived in poverty. They did not observe Jewish religion or traditions, nor could they read or write Hebrew. Their synagogue was in state of disrepair and they had had no rabbi for many years.







Chao Ching-ch'eng, of the Jewish community of Kaifeng, around 1850.



The Jesuits:

The Jesuits who came to China in the 18th century had a special mission. There was a general belief in Europe that the rabbis of the Talmudic era had excised from the Torah some passages that were talking about the coming of Jesus. Jesuits wanted to study the holy writings of Chinese Jews because they were not affected by Christianity. They were hoping to find the deleted passages to show the Jewish people that their rabbis had deceived them. They hoped for a mass conversion to Christianity. Their mission was without a result.


Jewish Community in Kaifeng Nowadays:

Today, a Jewish community as such no longer exists in Kaifeng. There are some Chinese that claim to be of Jewish descent, but they know very little about their past. However, they are very proud of it. Chinese Jews nowadays can be recognized by the seven surnames that were given to them by one of the emperors. The surnames are: Ai, Gao, Jin, Li, Shi, Zhang and Zhao. Many Chinese Jews converted to Islam over the years, since Islam was the religion whose beliefs and practices were similar to those of Judaism.

[typomaniac]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. :dunno:

[Pale Rider]

Some of us are. Unfortunately. Good news is, more people in the legal immigrant communities are now beginning to distance themselves from the illegals. So this sort of pandering will soon lose its audience. :poke:

True... it's happening as we speak.

The border and illegal alien problem is a massive caldron simmering just under the surface. However, it's ready to blow. Right about the time the presidential election debates heat up, and the ads turn nasty.

[Gunny]

Already did. I spent 4 years living in the hellhole known as LA county. Trust me, it ain't that different from San Jose.
Absolutely there should be differences between immigrating legally and illegally.

You bring up an interesting point about assimilation, though. The Chinese had a great method of assimilation: they encouraged the citizens and the immigrants to intermarry.

I wonder how THAT would go over with the "religious" right? :eek:

I lived in Monterery and in SD county. BIG difference.

[Pale Rider]

Already did. I spent 4 years living in the hellhole known as LA county.

Yup... mexifornia.

[Gunny]

Yup... mexifornia.

I guess that means we'll be Texaco here.:laugh2:

[Pale Rider]

I guess that means we'll be Texaco here.:laugh2:

And we'll be Mexada... :laugh2:

[typomaniac]

I lived in Monterery and in SD county. BIG difference.True enough, but only because the Mexicans can't afford Monterey: they all live over the hills in Salinas.

There are some damn fine restuarants out there, though... :)

[Samantha]

What a bunch of racist crap! America's culture is a melting pot. People have been immigrating here since the beginning. We are ancestors of immigrants.

Mexican immigrants will save us, not hurt us. We need them here legally, so they can pay into social security because Americans are not having enough children to support this policy.

We need them to work on our farms and in other jobs that Americans aren't applying for. This thread is racism and bigotry, I find it disgusting.

[Gunny]

What a bunch of racist crap! America's culture is a melting pot. People have been immigrating here since the beginning. We are ancestors of immigrants.

Mexican immigrants will save us, not hurt us. We need them here legally, so they can pay into social security because Americans are not having enough children to support this policy.

We need them to work on our farms and in other jobs that Americans aren't applying for. This thread is racism and bigotry, I find it disgusting.

First off, there is nothing racist about it. That's just a label you lefties like to sling around anytime someone calls a group what it is ... so cool your jets.

Second, the second you make those illegals legal guess what happens? They suddenly don't make enough to pay taxes and support a family. Of course, they'll legally have to be paid minimum wage anyway.

There goes the cheap labor. What does the employer do? Lays them off to keep his expenditures the same. So you have added to the unemplyment level, while the employer is still trying to get the same amount of work from half the people.

Then of course, the illegals that come after them will be hired to replace what's left of the legals since they'll work cheap.

So all you've really done is add to teh unemployment rate and burdened our social infrastructure even more than it is now.

And sinc eno one here has said "I hate wetbacks," just defined illegal immigrants as a problem, your cry of "racism" has no legsto stand on. I personally don't have a problem with Mexicans. I have a problem with illegal immigration.

[typomaniac]

America's culture is a melting pot. People have been immigrating here since the beginning. We are ancestors of immigrants.

Mexican immigrants will save us, not hurt us. We need them here legally, so they can pay into social security because Americans are not having enough children to support this policy.Sam, I think you're missing the point I was trying to make:

The Mexicans and other Latinos who are here legally - who had to jump through all the bureaucratic and financial hoops to do it - are getting increasingly upset at the idea that some politicians are suggesting that illegals can, in a manner of speaking, "jump ahead in line."

Personally, I think the outrage by these legal immigrants is very justified.

[Pale Rider]

What a bunch of racist crap! America's culture is a melting pot. People have been immigrating here since the beginning. We are ancestors of immigrants.

Oh my God... *sigh*.... what page of your liberal handbook is that retort on? Whatever page, it's not a good one. This country is made up of "LEGAL" immigrants, and "LAWS". Are you advocating another country ILLEGALY INVADE America, and you're alright with that?


Mexican immigrants will save us, not hurt us. We need them here legally, so they can pay into social security because Americans are not having enough children to support this policy.

This is just bullshit, puuuuuure bullshit. The tidal wave of illegal aliens into this country from mexico do more HARM to our country than GOOD. It's not the elite jumping the border. The majority are the drug smuglers, the uneducated, the sick, the lame, gang bangers, the lost and the distrought. In other words, mexico's GARBAGE. They COST our system FAR more than they contribute. Just ask anyone living in Arizona, or California....er... mexifornia.


We need them to work on our farms and in other jobs that Americans aren't applying for. This thread is racism and bigotry, I find it disgusting.

Talk about RACIST!!! You've got them already classified as lowly FARM WORKERS! Nice. Oh you're not racist. Nooooo. You're not a bigot either. Oh nooooo. Nice try sister. You're no better than anyone else. Your name calling just got thrown right back in your FACE.

We don't NEED anyone in this country. There's already enough people here. The criminals jumping our border from mexico is the largest invasion from one country into another in the history of the WORLD. It needs to stop, and the illegal aliens that are here need to go back. THEN we'll be better off, and the MAJORITY of Americans, the VAST majority of Americans, support that.

[typomaniac]

This is just bullshit, puuuuuure bullshit. The tidal wave of illegal aliens into this country from mexico do more HARM to our country than GOOD. It's not the elite jumping the border. The majority are the drug smuglers, the uneducated, the sick, the lame, gang bangers, the lost and the distrought. In other words, mexico's GARBAGE. They COST our system FAR more than they contribute. Just ask anyone living in Arizona, or California....er... mexifornia.For most of them, "GARBAGE" is going a little too far. The smugglers, dealers, and gang bangers are definitely in the minority. Most of the "crossers" are nothing more than dirt poor, undereducated peasants. And in Mexico, you don't wind up that way through any fault of your own: you wind up that way because you don't look European enough. Mexicans are every bit as racist as Southerners ever were.

Other than that, though, your point is valid.

[Pale Rider]

For most of them, "GARBAGE" is going a little too far. The smugglers, dealers, and gang bangers are definitely in the minority. Most of the "crossers" are nothing more than dirt poor, undereducated peasants. And in Mexico, you don't wind up that way through any fault of your own: you wind up that way because you don't look European enough. Mexicans are every bit as racist as Southerners ever were.

Other than that, though, your point is valid.

I've seen facts to the contrary of what you're purporting, so if you want me to believe what you're saying is true, please prove it, somehow.

[typomaniac]

I've seen facts to the contrary of what you're purporting, so if you want me to believe what you're saying is true, please prove it, somehow.To the contrary of what, that most people who cross are just plain poor, or that Mexican society is racist?

[Mr. P]

For most of them, "GARBAGE" is going a little too far. The smugglers, dealers, and gang bangers are definitely in the minority. Most of the "crossers" are nothing more than dirt poor, undereducated peasants. And in Mexico, you don't wind up that way through any fault of your own: you wind up that way because you don't look European enough. Mexicans are every bit as racist as Southerners ever were.

Other than that, though, your point is valid.

You've lived in the South, typomaniac?

[typomaniac]

You've lived in the South, typomaniac?Uh huh. More than 3 years.

[Mr. P]

Uh huh. More than 3 years.

WOW that's a long time what years? You were how old?

[typomaniac]

WOW that's a long time what years? You were how old?1989-1992: I was a postgrad student.

[Mr. P]

1989-1992: I was a postgrad student.

And you saw racism then? Or what you call racism?

[typomaniac]

And you saw racism then? Or what you call racism?Yes.

First of all, my university was in a VERY segregated town. One neighborhood that was popular with students (but much quieter than the area right next to campus) appeared to be completely minority-free. Had I been black, I would have felt uncomfortable about being around there, let alone living there. I also saw media reports about various used car dealers and apartment landlords being "stung" for attempting to overcharge non-white customers and tenants.

I'm not implying that this kind of thing doesn't happen in California or in the Northeast. Only that racism, while not as overt as it used to be, is still alive and well.

[Mr. P]

Yes.

First of all, my university was in a VERY segregated town. One neighborhood that was popular with students (but much quieter than the area right next to campus) appeared to be completely minority-free. Had I been black, I would have felt uncomfortable about being around there, let alone living there. I also saw media reports about various used car dealers and apartment landlords being "stung" for attempting to overcharge non-white customers and tenants.

I'm not implying that this kind of thing doesn't happen in California or in the Northeast. Only that racism, while not as overt as it used to be, is still alive and well.
Which school? State? City?

[Hugh Lincoln]

Lamm's points are well-taken; pretty amazing he's a Democrat.

To me, the destruction of America is really the destruction of its founding and traditional majority, English-speaking whites. As whites go, so goes the nation. A geographical area with a majority of blacks, Hispanics and Asians won't be the America we knew. Its loyalties will lie with other nations, other races, other cultures.

[Pale Rider]

To the contrary of what, that most people who cross are just plain poor, or that Mexican society is racist?

I don't believe the "majority" of mexicans illegaly jumping our border are just poor looking for a job. There's been too much documented otherwise. Just consider for one second, would a "law abiding mexican" jump the border? No, they we go through the proper chanels. It's the seedy, second rate, law breakers that are entering our country illegaly, not the "good" mexicans.

[typomaniac]

Which school? State? City?If you're genuinely that interested, PM me and I'll tell you. These questions are throwing the original topic too far off track.

[typomaniac]

I don't believe the "majority" of mexicans illegaly jumping our border are just poor looking for a job. There's been too much documented otherwise.Has anyone actually studied the demographics? I'm truly curious. Did they publish results, and if so, where?
Just consider for one second, would a "law abiding mexican" jump the border? No, they would go through the proper chanels.There's one factor you're failing to take into account.

Being poor in Mexico doesn't mean having to buy your shoes at Walmart because you can't afford Nikes. Being poor in Mexico means that you can't afford enough food to give your children the calories they need, let alone the nutrients. On top of that, you probably have your elderly parents, uncles, or aunts depending on you also, because Mexico has no social safety net of any kind. Bottom line: you can't sit back and wait for 10, 14, or 18 months while your paperwork gets reviewed. Your family would literally starve.

So you do whatever it takes to get money for your family, period. Those who don't cross the border don't have many options besides kidnapping, trafficking, and banditry.

[Pale Rider]

Has anyone actually studied the demographics? I'm truly curious. Did they publish results, and if so, where?

Here's an article that begins to define it...


Overview of Problem
With the rising concern about the numbers and impacts of illegal aliens in the United States—as evidenced by the sweeping passage of Proposition 187 in California, the immigrant provisions in 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act (PRWORA), and Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRIRA)—criminal illegal aliens have become a subject of particular focus. These individuals have not only entered or resided in the United States without the knowledge or permission of the U.S. government, but, while here, they have also violated the laws of the nation, its states, or municipalities.

At state and local levels, the costs of arresting, prosecuting, sentencing, and supervising criminal illegal aliens has become a major issue. Six states have filed suits to force the federal government to reimburse them for criminal justice costs associated with illegal aliens. They have argued that it is the federal government's responsibility to keep illegal aliens out of this country and to expel illegal aliens who have gained entry, and that, therefore, the federal government should offset any fiscal impacts that these illegal aliens have on lower levels of government through direct reimbursement. None of these suits has been successful.

The federal government has taken some steps to reimburse states for some of the costs associated with criminal illegal aliens. Section 510 of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) authorized the Attorney General to reimburse states for the criminal justice costs attributable to undocumented persons. No appropriations for illegal aliens were made until 1994, when the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act (Public Law 103-317 or the Crime Act of 1994) authorized $1.8 billion over six years to reimburse states for criminal justice costs associated with illegal aliens. The State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) was established to allocate and distribute these monies.

This research describes the characteristics of illegal aliens in the criminal justice system at federal, state, and local levels. A goal of this project is to be as nationally representative as possible, given the limits of existing data sets. The federal-level analysis is based on two data sets, from the Pretrial Services Act Information System (PSAIS) and the U.S. Sentencing Commission (USSC), which are representative of individuals involved in the federal criminal justice system. (The PSAIS contains information on defendants charged with federal offenses whom pretrial service officers interview, investigate, or supervise. The USSC Monitoring Data Base contains information on criminal defendants sentenced according to the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984.) The state-level analysis is based on data collected for the SCAAP on the seven states with the most illegal aliens, Arizona, California, Florida, Illinois, New Jersey, New York, and Texas (Warren 1997). All of these states except Illinois filed suits to force the federal government to reimburse them for criminal justice costs associated with illegal aliens. The local-level analysis is limited to one site, Cook County, Illinois, and is based on data collected from the INS District Office and the Cook County Department of Corrections.

http://www.urban.org/publications/410366.html

There is much more to that article, many facts and figures, and it's good reading.


There's one factor you're failing to take into account.

Being poor in Mexico doesn't mean having to buy your shoes at Walmart because you can't afford Nikes. Being poor in Mexico means that you can't afford enough food to give your children the calories they need, let alone the nutrients. On top of that, you probably have your elderly parents, uncles, or aunts depending on you also, because Mexico has no social safety net of any kind. Bottom line: you can't sit back and wait for 10, 14, or 18 months while your paperwork gets reviewed. Your family would literally starve.

So you do whatever it takes to get money for your family, period. Those who don't cross the border don't have many options besides kidnapping, trafficking, and banditry.

I've heard that arguement before, and it doesn't hold water, because what you're condoning is breaking the law to survive. You're excusing criminal behavior. You're also saying that because there's poor people in Mexico, that's somehow America's problem. First off, if I went by your logic, if I'm broke, it's OK for me to go downtown and rob the local bank, because after all, I'm just trying to survive, and that should make it OK. Second, what happens in Mexico is NOT the problem of America. It's Mexico's problem. Those people need to affect change in their own country. Not come here and bleed ours dry.

[Mr. P]

If you're genuinely that interested, PM me and I'll tell you. These questions are throwing the original topic too far off track.

You could have used less words just answering what school you went to. I'd like to know how you come about your view of racism in the South. Where you went to school for 3 years is important.

[typomaniac]

Here's an article that begins to define it...



There is much more to that article, many facts and figures, and it's good reading.I want to look at that article much more carefully before I comment on it.
I've heard that arguement before, and it doesn't hold water, because what you're condoning is breaking the law to survive. You're excusing criminal behavior.Whoa! I wasn't addressing the morality or the ethics of this behavior. All I did was explain why so many Mexicans don't want to wait to come to the US legally. You're reading way too much into what I said.
You're also saying that because there's poor people in Mexico, that's somehow America's problem.Again, no. Poverty in Mexico is not America's problem. The results of poverty in Mexico very often turn out to be America's problem, though.
First off, if I went by your logic, if I'm broke, it's OK for me to go downtown and rob the local bank, because after all, I'm just trying to survive, and that should make it OK.Already debunked this.
Second, what happens in Mexico is NOT the problem of America. It's Mexico's problem. Those people need to affect change in their own country. Not come here and bleed ours dry.They do need to affect change in their own country, absolutely. However, as long as coming here illegally is an easier option, what do you think they're going to do?

[Pale Rider]

I want to look at that article much more carefully before I comment on it.Whoa! I wasn't addressing the morality or the ethics of this behavior. All I did was explain why so many Mexicans don't want to wait to come to the US legally. You're reading way too much into what I said.Again, no. Poverty in Mexico is not America's problem. The results of poverty in Mexico very often turn out to be America's problem, though.Already debunked this.They do need to affect change in their own country, absolutely. However, as long as coming here illegally is an easier option, what do you think they're going to do?


Well you've explained "why" they come here, but I already knew that. It appears we both know why. I just think it needs to be stopped. It's criminal. It's an invasion, and we should be fighting mad.

[typomaniac]

Well you've explained "why" they come here, but I already knew that. It appears we both know why. I just think it needs to be stopped. It's criminal. It's an invasion, and we should be fighting mad.I don't disagree. Just out of curiosity, have you written to your reps on Capitol Hill about this?

[stephanie]

I've posted this site here before...You can send free faxes to your Reps, and they keep you up to date on what is happening...

They do ask for donations...but I'm not sure you have to donate to send the faxes..
I have donated to them...
They send me email updates when something is happening..

http://www.numbersusa.com/index

[Nuc]

Lamm's points are well-taken; pretty amazing he's a Democrat.

To me, the destruction of America is really the destruction of its founding and traditional majority, English-speaking whites. As whites go, so goes the nation. A geographical area with a majority of blacks, Hispanics and Asians won't be the America we knew. Its loyalties will lie with other nations, other races, other cultures.

That's assuming that all or most whites in America are law-abiding, patriotic, morally sound, loving and caring good citizens. Big assumption.

In reality many of them are white trash, speed freaks, coke dealers, pedophiles, slutty soccer moms and corporate scum. And even Minnesota Vikings fans. Among other things.

[Hugh Lincoln]

That's assuming that all or most whites in America are law-abiding, patriotic, morally sound, loving and caring good citizens. Big assumption.

In reality many of them are white trash, speed freaks, coke dealers, pedophiles, slutty soccer moms and corporate scum. And even Minnesota Vikings fans. Among other things.

I'm sure you (no doubt white) find it comforting to believe that whites are incapable of maintaining a productive, civil society without the assistance of blacks and Mexicans. But depsite all those slutty soccer moms and corporate scum, they manage to do this with incredible consistency. Other races, bar even Asians, do not.

Name me ONE FUCKING NON-WHITE COUNTRY that whites are flocking to move to because the standard of living is higher than where they're from.

Pray tell, Nuc, why you (according to your cyberbio, reliable as it may be) moved from the U.S. to Australia. Why not Nigeria, oh ye of the color-blindness? How 'bout Haiti?

[Abbey Marie]

That's assuming that all or most whites in America are law-abiding, patriotic, morally sound, loving and caring good citizens. Big assumption.

In reality many of them are white trash, speed freaks, coke dealers, pedophiles, slutty soccer moms and corporate scum. And even Minnesota Vikings fans. Among other things.

We are not a soccer family, but... "slutty soccer moms"?

[Pale Rider]

I don't disagree. Just out of curiosity, have you written to your reps on Capitol Hill about this?

Absolutely. Over and over. I have several letters written on "The White House" letterhead.

I do what I can. It's all anyone can do. I just wish I could do more.