*Good News For Those Whom Have Ins.*

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Just doing some surfing and came across this story.
2. It seems 45k people in America die every year due to not being insured.
3. Thats great news for you folks who have it, and are against the ObamaCare.
4. Won't take that long before we un-insured folks are all DEAD!!!! Weepeee!!!!
5. Lemme see, 45k people a year dead and gone, won't be that long till you have all the insurance to yourselves.
6. Heres a link and a freebie:
http://albuquerque.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/stories/2009/09/14/daily52.html



"Nearly 45,000 people die each year due to a lack of health insurance, according to a study published on Thursday in the online edition of the American Journal of Public Health.

The study, carried out by Harvard researchers and funded by a research grant, found that uninsured, working-age Americans have a 40 percent higher risk of death than their privately insured counterparts, up from 25 percent in 1993."



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[CSM]

Here is a reality check for you:


The mortality rate for human beings (insured or not!) is 100%. Nobody gets out alive.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





Here is a reality check for you:


The mortality rate for human beings (insured or not!) is 100%. Nobody gets out alive.


1. I raise your reality check, and double it!
2. No one gets out alive.
3. But it seems those with ins. live longer.
4. And those without die sooner.
5. Maybe your reality is, "Oh well we all gotta die sonner or laters"?
6. I think justice requires everyone has access to healthcare.
7. Your stance is standing on innocent blood.
8. People are dieng from your greed, and people who agree with you.



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[bullypulpit]

Laugh it up you fuckers. Yesterday I had a patient...symptomatic for months...weight loss, hematochezia, loss of appetite, abdominal pain. Got so bad their spouse finally called EMS. Hemoglobin was 4.6, should be about 14.6, CAT scan of the abdomen and pelvis revealed adenocarcinoma with metastasis throughout the abdominal cavity. But guess what they don't have insurance despite both the patient and spouse working two jobs each. The patient delayed seeking healthcare because they simply couldn't afford it and now, the delay will kill them. Yeah...the fucking system is just fine the way it is you asshats.

[stephanie]

Laugh it up you fuckers. Yesterday I had a patient...symptomatic for months...weight loss, hematochezia, loss of appetite, abdominal pain. Got so bad their spouse finally called EMS. Hemoglobin was 4.6, should be about 14.6, CAT scan of the abdomen and pelvis revealed adenocarcinoma with metastasis throughout the abdominal cavity. But guess what they don't have insurance despite both the patient and spouse working two jobs each. The patient delayed seeking healthcare because they simply couldn't afford it and now, the delay will kill them. Yeah...the fucking system is just fine the way it is you asshats.

bully, I'm sorry to hear of your patients problem, but how is this the fault of the American people?

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,






Laugh it up you fuckers. Yesterday I had a patient...symptomatic for months...weight loss, hematochezia, loss of appetite, abdominal pain. Got so bad their spouse finally called EMS. Hemoglobin was 4.6, should be about 14.6, CAT scan of the abdomen and pelvis revealed adenocarcinoma with metastasis throughout the abdominal cavity. But guess what they don't have insurance despite both the patient and spouse working two jobs each. The patient delayed seeking healthcare because they simply couldn't afford it and now, the delay will kill them. Yeah...the fucking system is just fine the way it is you asshats.





1. Yeah, this system is screwed, insurance companies, hospitals, doctors, all getting rich over the dead bodies of the un-insured.
2. While they collect huge monies from the insured, those withour it, just die.
3. I wonder how long those with insurance can live within themsleves while people just die without it?
4. Its a crime against humanity, to have all this capability, and exclude so many millions from having a bennifit of it.
5. Bully sees just how screwed up it is, being a doctor, he has to see it, day in day out, unless he were a stone.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





bully, I'm sorry to hear of your patients problem, but how is this the fault of the American people?




1. Be yea warm and filled, go forth without being fed, and or clothed.
2. Be yea cast out ill and broken, your wothout insurance, you go home and die for it.
3. Wonder if anyone here will understand what I just wrote?



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[stephanie]

Sorry bout that,











1. Yeah, this system is screwed, insurance companies, hospitals, doctors, all getting rich over the dead bodies of the un-insured.
2. While they collect huge monies from the insured, those withour it, just die.
3. I wonder how long those with insurance can live within themsleves while people just die without it?
4. Its a crime against humanity, to have all this capability, and exclude so many millions from having a bennifit of it.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

If you want Socialised health care, why don't you move to a country that has it?
Instead you all would rather force it on the people here who are showing that is not what they want..

[stephanie]

Sorry bout that,









1. Be yea warm and filled, go forth without being fed, and or clothed.
2. Be yea cast out ill and broken, your wothout insurance, you go home and die for it.
3. Wonder if anyone here will understand what I just wrote?



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

and?

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,






If you want Socialised health care, why don't you move to a country that has it?
Instead you all would rather force it on the people here who are showing that is not what they want..



1. Some people just won't be able to comprehend this.
2. You are one of them.
3. Only way you will ever get it, is when you become ill, and find out your insurance wont cover this illness.
4. Then the un-insured will have no recourse but to lol and your plight.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[stephanie]

Sorry bout that,









1. Some people just won't be able to comprehend this.
2. You are one of them.
3. Only way you will ever get it, is when you become ill, and find out your insurance wont cover this illness.
4. Then the un-insured will have no recourse but to lol and your plight.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Oh? well when that happens I'll just call you up and ask that you chip in and help me pay it, hows that..and will you, please.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,




Oh? well when that happens I'll just call you up and ask that you chip in and help me pay it, hows that..and will you, please.



1. Be yea paid up in full on another insurance policy as a back up.
2. So by the time your ever not covered by a certain illness not covered, you will already in the poor house, and have no need for insurance anyway, seeing your broke, and could qualify for medicare.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[stephanie]

Sorry bout that,







1. Be yea paid up in full on another insurance policy as a back up.
2. So by the time your ever not covered by a certain illness not covered, you will already in the poor house, and have no need for insurance anyway, seeing your broke, and could qualify for medicare.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

you know, it would be nice if you could just speak like a normal person..
annoying as hell.

[Missileman]

Laugh it up you fuckers. Yesterday I had a patient...symptomatic for months...weight loss, hematochezia, loss of appetite, abdominal pain. Got so bad their spouse finally called EMS. Hemoglobin was 4.6, should be about 14.6, CAT scan of the abdomen and pelvis revealed adenocarcinoma with metastasis throughout the abdominal cavity. But guess what they don't have insurance despite both the patient and spouse working two jobs each. The patient delayed seeking healthcare because they simply couldn't afford it and now, the delay will kill them. Yeah...the fucking system is just fine the way it is you asshats.

Would they have been any better off in Canada? Seems their system, like the one they are trying to force on all of us, would make this a routine scenario rather than a rare one.

[MtnBiker]

However, the study’s authors concede that the research was conducted “at a single point in time” and that they did not validate their subjects’ insurance status. It also pointed to other limitations such as how much value individuals place on their health and on healthy behaviors.



Did the study explain why all 45,000 did not have insurance? Did the study determine how exactly the 45,000 situation would be different with insurance?

[cat slave]

Here is a reality check for you:


The mortality rate for human beings (insured or not!) is 100%. Nobody gets out alive.

Excellent point!

[cat slave]

That was a really tragic story. Im sorry for the family and the patient.

No clear thinking person would want the government administering, having
any say of or setting up any medical "net". OMG, they screw up every ******* thing they touch. They are a disaster looking for the next chance
to screw something up.

Where are the churches in these needy cases??? Sending all their resources
to remote areas while their own neighbors are in need? And being tax exempt
all the while!

Why arent the Catholic Charities putting all the resources they use in bringing
in immigrants and setting them up and taking care of them when their neighbors
are in need????? Hmmmmmmmmmm? Someone please explain that one.

Keep WA out of our lives. Medicare and SS have been paid into and the
coffers raided by the out of control fed gov and squandered. Those
programs should be phased into more efficient programs and not under
the feds so they can raid and plunder $$.

And whoever posted about the tragic case at the beginning of this thread,
you sound like...a doctor???? Dont you know with gov healthcare you will
be expected to work for a pittance if at all and what kind of care is that?

A sign at the DC rally:

"Id rather be waterboarded than have Obamacare."

THAT would be true torture and I thought that was not to be practiced.

[cat slave]

Laugh it up you fuckers. Yesterday I had a patient...symptomatic for months...weight loss, hematochezia, loss of appetite, abdominal pain. Got so bad their spouse finally called EMS. Hemoglobin was 4.6, should be about 14.6, CAT scan of the abdomen and pelvis revealed adenocarcinoma with metastasis throughout the abdominal cavity. But guess what they don't have insurance despite both the patient and spouse working two jobs each. The patient delayed seeking healthcare because they simply couldn't afford it and now, the delay will kill them. Yeah...the fucking system is just fine the way it is you asshats.


You left out what a red hot cancer carcinoma is and how highly metastatic it
is. That is what killed the patient, not all us right wing capitalists.
The red hot cancer killed the patient!

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,






you know, it would be nice if you could just speak like a normal person..
annoying as hell.




1. You know Im right you just got nothing.
2. You cant win this one, its unwinable.
3. God knows we need a better healthcare system.
4. Surely it will get fixed!



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,






That was a really tragic story. Im sorry for the family and the patient.





1. Sorry does'nt get this person the medical help she needed when she needed it. Sorry just closes the door, and says, "You go die alone."







No clear thinking person would want the government administering, having
any say of or setting up any medical "net". OMG, they screw up every ******* thing they touch. They are a disaster looking for the next chance
to screw something up.





2. Too many people each day die to lack of proper care, while its availible at the hospitals, theres not complete access, thats why its broken.






Where are the churches in these needy cases??? Sending all their resources
to remote areas while their own neighbors are in need? And being tax exempt
all the while!

Why arent the Catholic Charities putting all the resources they use in bringing
in immigrants and setting them up and taking care of them when their neighbors
are in need????? Hmmmmmmmmmm? Someone please explain that one.





3. Because its such a big job and nobody else wants it.







Keep WA out of our lives. Medicare and SS have been paid into and the
coffers raided by the out of control fed gov and squandered. Those
programs should be phased into more efficient programs and not under
the feds so they can raid and plunder $$.






4. Sure theres a problem with having large sums of money sitting around, so uncle sam spends it, and prints more when needed.








And whoever posted about the tragic case at the beginning of this thread,
you sound like...a doctor???? Dont you know with gov healthcare you will
be expected to work for a pittance if at all and what kind of care is that?






5. Doctors will always be rich, they wont have to worry, its them whom make the whole thing work, and the guilt of seeing people being left out is enormous, they have to speak out, for morallitys sake, and everything thats good that they do, screams out for them to say something.







A sign at the DC rally:

"Id rather be waterboarded than have Obamacare."





6/Rather milk toast, there was some far worse.








THAT would be true torture and I thought that was not to be practiced.





6. Torture is seeing your loved ones have to die, because they didn'y get the proper help soon enough to save their lives.





Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





Excellent point!




1. Sure we are all going to die, sooner or later, why even go to a hospital when you become very ill one day?
2. Just stay in your room and tough it out.
3. Anyway, you're going to have to die sooner or laters.
4. Hey why not just go jump off a bridge, hell that works!
5. :laugh2:joking ofcourse,......



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[bullypulpit]

bully, I'm sorry to hear of your patients problem, but how is this the fault of the American people?

Did I even SAY that it was "...the fault of the American people"? DId I assign ANY blame at all? NO. I stated "...the fucking system is just fine the way it is you asshats." You know...heavy handed sarcasm. But you probably don't.

Early detection by means of regular visits to a doctor...you know, effing preventive care...would have likely caught the problem before it got to this point. SO no cat-slave, it's not "red-hot cancer" that led the patient to their current straights. It's the lack of affordable health-care.

Like it or not, we pay far more by failing to provide affordable health-care than we would in providing it. A visit to a doctor's office is about $60 to $100. A simple ER visit with no x-rays or other diagnostic tests can easily run $600. And since the uninsured use emergency departments for their primary care, they show up far sicker, requiring admission, often to critical care units where a stay can cost around <a href=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15942342>$3000 a day</a> at a minimum. These costs get passed on to private pay, read as "Those of us with insurance", in the form of higher health insurance premiums, higher deductibles and higher co-pays. In turn these added costs can force employers to drop health insurance coverage for their employees, thus forcing more people into the ranks of the uninsured. It's a vicious cycle, one which most people...as in y'all...the Glenn becks, Rush Limbaugh's and the rest of the right wing-nut punditocracy never see except as statistics. They, and you asshats here, NEVER see the human toll, the bankruptcies, the deaths...All because people can't afford insurance or insurance companies drop people when they file a claim. Until you do, do us all a favor and have a nice big cup of STFU. Okay?

[stephanie]

Did I even SAY that it was "...the fault of the American people"? DId I assign ANY blame at all? NO. I stated "...the fucking system is just fine the way it is you asshats." You know...heavy handed sarcasm. But you probably don't.

Early detection by means of regular visits to a doctor...you know, effing preventive care...would have likely caught the problem before it got to this point. SO no cat-slave, it's not "red-hot cancer" that led the patient to their current straights. It's the lack of affordable health-care.

Like it or not, we pay far more by failing to provide affordable health-care than we would in providing it. A visit to a doctor's office is about $60 to $100. A simple ER visit with no x-rays or other diagnostic tests can easily run $600. And since the uninsured use emergency departments for their primary care, they show up far sicker, requiring admission, often to critical care units where a stay can cost around <a href=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15942342>$3000 a day</a> at a minimum. These costs get passed on to private pay, read as "Those of us with insurance", in the form of higher health insurance premiums, higher deductibles and higher co-pays. In turn these added costs can force employers to drop health insurance coverage for their employees, thus forcing more people into the ranks of the uninsured. It's a vicious cycle, one which most people...as in y'all...the Glenn becks, Rush Limbaugh's and the rest of the right wing-nut punditocracy never see except as statistics. They, and you asshats here, NEVER see the human toll, the bankruptcies, the deaths...All because people can't afford insurance or insurance companies drop people when they file a claim. Until you do, do us all a favor and have a nice big cup of STFU. Okay?

and how is a Goverment run health care going to prevent all the above?
BY FORCE? AND HUGE FINES. is that how you perfer to live..?

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





Did I even SAY that it was "...the fault of the American people"? DId I assign ANY blame at all? NO. I stated "...the fucking system is just fine the way it is you asshats." You know...heavy handed sarcasm. But you probably don't.

Early detection by means of regular visits to a doctor...you know, effing preventive care...would have likely caught the problem before it got to this point. SO no cat-slave, it's not "red-hot cancer" that led the patient to their current straights. It's the lack of affordable health-care.

Like it or not, we pay far more by failing to provide affordable health-care than we would in providing it. A visit to a doctor's office is about $60 to $100. A simple ER visit with no x-rays or other diagnostic tests can easily run $600. And since the uninsured use emergency departments for their primary care, they show up far sicker, requiring admission, often to critical care units where a stay can cost around <a href=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15942342>$3000 a day</a> at a minimum. These costs get passed on to private pay, read as "Those of us with insurance", in the form of higher health insurance premiums, higher deductibles and higher co-pays. In turn these added costs can force employers to drop health insurance coverage for their employees, thus forcing more people into the ranks of the uninsured. It's a vicious cycle, one which most people...as in y'all...the Glenn becks, Rush Limbaugh's and the rest of the right wing-nut punditocracy never see except as statistics. They, and you asshats here, NEVER see the human toll, the bankruptcies, the deaths...All because people can't afford insurance or insurance companies drop people when they file a claim. Until you do, do us all a favor and have a nice big cup of STFU. Okay?

BRAVO, WELL SAID!!!!!!!!! YOU GO TIGER!!!!!



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[bullypulpit]

and how is a Goverment run health care going to prevent all the above?
BY FORCE? AND HUGE FINES. is that how you perfer to live..?

Force? The only ones mentioning that is you and your fellow travelers. Huge fine? That sleazy bastard Max Baucus is the only one calling for that in the gift to insurance companies he's trying to pass off as "Health-care reform". Personally, I'd rather see a single payer system but that's not going to happen any time soon. So a strong public option is essential to ANY health-care reform bill.

I understand y'all are upset and afraid, but your anger and fear are mis-directed. The real death panels are in the form of post-claim underwriting used by health insurers to deny claims or coverage for a pre-existing condition. They are the real villains...profiting from the suffering of others and fighting to maintain the status quo regardless of the human suffering and misery it creates.

So, stp acting against your own best interests and support real, effective health-care reform with a strong public option.

[stephanie]

Force? The only ones mentioning that is you and your fellow travelers. Huge fine? That sleazy bastard Max Baucus is the only one calling for that in the gift to insurance companies he's trying to pass off as "Health-care reform". Personally, I'd rather see a single payer system but that's not going to happen any time soon. So a strong public option is essential to ANY health-care reform bill.

I understand y'all are upset and afraid, but your anger and fear are mis-directed. The real death panels are in the form of post-claim underwriting used by health insurers to deny claims or coverage for a pre-existing condition. They are the real villains...profiting from the suffering of others and fighting to maintain the status quo regardless of the human suffering and misery it creates.

So, stp acting against your own best interests and support real, effective health-care reform with a strong public option.

nothing friggen cracks me up more than when a liberal-progressive tells me to STOP voting against my own BEST INTERST...

this will all come down to how the people in the United States feels about this, and right now they are saying, HELL NO..

this President should be FIXING medicare if he really wants to fix a health care program..but no, he wants his puny fingers on our ENTIRE health care system.....why is that?

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Yeah even I figured it out.
2. And Im no genius.
3. Look, ALL Americans are being bent over on what we presently have.
4. You just are not smart enough to know it, while I am!
5. There is a better way, and its called, *Public Option*.
6. Everyone gets covered.
7. Simple as that.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[stephanie]

Sorry bout that,


1. Yeah even I figured it out.
2. And Im no genius.
3. Look, ALL Americans are being bent over on what we presently have.
4. You just are not smart enough to know it, while I am!
5. There is a better way, and its called, *Public Option*.
6. Everyone gets covered.
7. Simple as that.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

who the hell are you talking too.:poke:

[Trigg]

chesswar said




5. Doctors will always be rich, they wont have to worry, its them whom make the whole thing work, and the guilt of seeing people being left out is enormous, they have to speak out, for morallitys sake, and everything thats good that they do, screams out for them to say something.

Do you know why there is a Dr shortage in Europe?????????

Because they have 7-10 years in school depending on their specialty. In Europe they are paid a pittance, most less than 80,000 a year. Which is why people either leave or simply choose another profession.

Even here in the US the majority if physicians are either General Practitioners or Internal med. They make up to 150,000, not a bad number by any means. But, they pay high taxes and their malpractice insurance (for those lovely trial lawyers) is sky high.

If they start getting paid nothing, we will have the same problems Canada and Europe have too many people and not enough Dr's.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





who the hell are you talking too.:poke:



1. Who evers reading it.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,






chesswar said





Do you know why there is a Dr shortage in Europe?????????

Because they have 7-10 years in school depending on their specialty. In Europe they are paid a pittance, most less than 80,000 a year. Which is why people either leave or simply choose another profession.

Even here in the US the majority if physicians are either General Practitioners or Internal med. They make up to 150,000, not a bad number by any means. But, they pay high taxes and their malpractice insurance (for those lovely trial lawyers) is sky high.

If they start getting paid nothing, we will have the same problems Canada and Europe have too many people and not enough Dr's.





1. Shouldn't take so long to learn something.
2. Doctors should be able to pick something up in like 6 months.
3. I learn stuff the first time I see it.
4. All the govenment regulations keep doctors on the slow track in treating people.
5. That can be changed.
6. Which it wouldn't bother me if it did.
7. Also we can import doctors from the Philippines, they have tons of them willing and ready.
8. A hundred years ago they didn't get much for being a doctor, maybe a dollar a visit, or a chicken, that happened alot during the depression too.


Regards,
SirJamesoftexas

[Jeff]

Sorry bout that,











1. Shouldn't take so long to learn something.
2. Doctors should be able to pick something up in like 6 months.
3. I learn stuff the first time I see it.
4. All the govenment regulations keep doctors on the slow track in treating people.
5. That can be changed.
6. Which it wouldn't bother me if it did.
7. Also we can import doctors from the Philippines, they have tons of them willing and ready.
8. A hundred years ago they didn't get much for being a doctor, maybe a dollar a visit, or a chicken, that happened alot during the depression too.


Regards,
SirJamesoftexas

Well James with People like you supporting Obama I am sure if he stays much longer we will be back in a depression, so save up your chickens,

OOO and I bet those Docs from the Philippines are first class, I got a idea, why not move there I bet medical is very cheap there, as for me I will keep working and take care of myself, I don't need Obama to wipe my ass

[red states rule]

bully, I'm sorry to hear of your patients problem, but how is this the fault of the American people?

Because we do not pay enough in taxes

Because we have a capitalistic system

Because it is all Bush's fault

A few of what BP might offer as an excuse

[red states rule]

Force? The only ones mentioning that is you and your fellow travelers. Huge fine? That sleazy bastard Max Baucus is the only one calling for that in the gift to insurance companies he's trying to pass off as "Health-care reform". Personally, I'd rather see a single payer system but that's not going to happen any time soon. So a strong public option is essential to ANY health-care reform bill.

I understand y'all are upset and afraid, but your anger and fear are mis-directed. The real death panels are in the form of post-claim underwriting used by health insurers to deny claims or coverage for a pre-existing condition. They are the real villains...profiting from the suffering of others and fighting to maintain the status quo regardless of the human suffering and misery it creates.

So, stp acting against your own best interests and support real, effective health-care reform with a strong public option.

BP a few facts - osmething you may not have seen or heard about on MSNBC

If anyone does not take Obamacare they will be FINED. They will not have a choice. Employers will be FINED to 8% of their payroll if they do not offer the coverage the GOVERNMENT thinks is enough coverage

People will be taxed up to 13% of their income

How is this not another welfare program where the producers are paying for the nonproducers?

How is it in ny best interest to have the Feds takeover my healthcare? They can't run the Post Offcie, they can't run Cash for Clunkers, they can't caulk a window under a stimulus program, so how will they run the nations healtgcare system?

Why should I want to pay MORE in taxes to government that has pissed thru $9 trillion in 8 months and has NOTHING to so for it except higher unemployment?

[bullypulpit]

nothing friggen cracks me up more than when a liberal-progressive tells me to STOP voting against my own BEST INTERST...

this will all come down to how the people in the United States feels about this, and right now they are saying, HELL NO..

this President should be FIXING medicare if he really wants to fix a health care program..but no, he wants his puny fingers on our ENTIRE health care system.....why is that?

<center><img src=http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/20090914_keyh_f1.jpg></center>

<blockquote>Panel A shows the proportion of survey respondents who favored public options only, those who favored both public and private options, and those who favored private options only. Panel B shows the proportions of respondents (according to their medical specialty) who supported, opposed, or were undecided about the expansion of Medicare to include adults between the ages of 55 and 64 years. The proportion of support was consistent across all four specialty groups (P=0.08).</blockquote>

<blockquote>Voters overwhelmingly want everyone to have a choice of private health insurance or
a public health insurance plan (73%), while just 15% prefer everyone having private health
insurance and 9% support only public insurance. The preference for a choice of public and
private health insurance plans extends across all demographic and partisan groups, including
Democrats (77%), Independents (79%) and Republicans (63%). - <a href=http://healthcareforamericanow.org/page/-/documents%20for%20download/Memo.HCAN.f3.012809.pdf>Lake Research Partners</a></blockquote>

<blockquote>Among the 1,000 Democrats, Republicans and independents surveyed on Aug. 12 and 13, <b>79 percent say they believe a federal government health insurance option should be available for people to buy</b>. - <a href=http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13203651>Dever Post & AARP</a></blockquote>

Every time you and your fellow travelers blindly offer up your slavish support for the GOP, you vote against your best interest.

The citations above show your assertion that the American people are opposed to a public option for health care to be an empty one.

A strong public option is the middle path between the extremes of single payer health-insurance and the darwinian, largely private, system we now have, and Americans support it by large margins. This is why President Obama, and presidents back to Teddy Roosevelt have attempted to institute a system by which people would not be financially broken and bankrupted by illness.

A final question...What would Jesus do? I'm fairly certain he wouldn't ask you to pay a deductible or co-pay. ;)

[red states rule]

Sorry to bust your bubble BP - OK I am not really sorry


Health Care Reform
Opposition to Health Care Plan Hits New High of 56%


Friday, September 18, 2009

Fifty-six percent (56%) of voters nationwide now oppose the health care reform proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s the highest level of opposition yet measured and includes 44% who are Strongly Opposed.

Just 43% now favor the proposal, including 24% who Strongly Favor it.

But the overall picture remains one of stability. While the numbers have bounced a bit following nationally televised appearances by the president to promote the plan, opposition has generally stayed above 50% since early July. Support has been in the low to mid 40s.

The number who Strongly Oppose the plan has remained above 40% and the Strongly Favor totals have been in the mid-20s. This suggests public opinion is hardening when it comes to the plan that is currently working its way through Congress.

However, now just 48% say that health care reform plan is at least somewhat likely to pass this year, a figure that has been trending down in recent days. That figure includes 17% who say passage is Very Likely.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

[bullypulpit]

BP a few facts - osmething you may not have seen or heard about on MSNBC

If anyone does not take Obamacare they will be FINED. They will not have a choice. Employers will be FINED to 8% of their payroll if they do not offer the coverage the GOVERNMENT thinks is enough coverage

People will be taxed up to 13% of their income

How is this not another welfare program where the producers are paying for the nonproducers?

How is it in ny best interest to have the Feds takeover my healthcare? They can't run the Post Offcie, they can't run Cash for Clunkers, they can't caulk a window under a stimulus program, so how will they run the nations healtgcare system?

Why should I want to pay MORE in taxes to government that has pissed thru $9 trillion in 8 months and has NOTHING to so for it except higher unemployment?

Sorry Red, but the specter of fines only raises its ugly head under a draft bill introduced by Democrat In Name Only, Senator Max Baucus (D{for 'douchebag'} - MT)

But hey...keep grasping at those straws the right wing-nut punditocracy throws at you. It's al y'all have left. Heh.

[red states rule]

Sorry Red, but the specter of fines only raises its ugly head under a draft bill introduced by Democrat In Name Only, Senator Max Baucus (D{for 'douchebag'} - MT)

But hey...keep grasping at those straws the right wing-nut punditocracy throws at you. It's al y'all have left. Heh.

Like my liberal coworker - he gets testy as you do when I point out their is NO CHOICE in Obamacare. Obama himself said people MUST take coverage or be fined

What is stop major employers from dumping their workers onto the public plan and paying the 8% fine?

Of course this is what Dems want - more people depending on a governemnt program

One thing is clear BP - you are more angry as your party has ENTIRE control in DC and as you see their approval numbers sinking as another dose of liberalism is being rammed down the nations throats

[stephanie]

<center><img src=http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/20090914_keyh_f1.jpg></center>

<blockquote>Panel A shows the proportion of survey respondents who favored public options only, those who favored both public and private options, and those who favored private options only. Panel B shows the proportions of respondents (according to their medical specialty) who supported, opposed, or were undecided about the expansion of Medicare to include adults between the ages of 55 and 64 years. The proportion of support was consistent across all four specialty groups (P=0.08).</blockquote>

<blockquote>Voters overwhelmingly want everyone to have a choice of private health insurance or
a public health insurance plan (73%), while just 15% prefer everyone having private health
insurance and 9% support only public insurance. The preference for a choice of public and
private health insurance plans extends across all demographic and partisan groups, including
Democrats (77%), Independents (79%) and Republicans (63%). - <a href=http://healthcareforamericanow.org/page/-/documents%20for%20download/Memo.HCAN.f3.012809.pdf>Lake Research Partners</a></blockquote>

<blockquote>Among the 1,000 Democrats, Republicans and independents surveyed on Aug. 12 and 13, <b>79 percent say they believe a federal government health insurance option should be available for people to buy</b>. - <a href=http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_13203651>Dever Post & AARP</a></blockquote>

Every time you and your fellow travelers blindly offer up your slavish support for the GOP, you vote against your best interest.

The citations above show your assertion that the American people are opposed to a public option for health care to be an empty one.

A strong public option is the middle path between the extremes of single payer health-insurance and the darwinian, largely private, system we now have, and Americans support it by large margins. This is why President Obama, and presidents back to Teddy Roosevelt have attempted to institute a system by which people would not be financially broken and bankrupted by illness.

A final question...What would Jesus do? I'm fairly certain he wouldn't ask you to pay a deductible or co-pay. ;)

man, did you have to mess up the page with that huge chart..I'm having trouble reading it now.

and if I can read these charts correctly that is old data..

Health Care Reform



Opposition to Health Care Plan Hits New High of 56%


Friday, September 18, 2009
ShareThisAdvertisementFifty-six percent (56%) of voters nationwide now oppose the health care reform proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s the highest level of opposition yet measured and includes 44% who are Strongly Opposed.

Just 43% now favor the proposal, including 24% who Strongly Favor it.

But the overall picture remains one of stability. While the numbers have bounced a bit following nationally televised appearances by the president to promote the plan, opposition has generally stayed above 50% since early July. Support has been in the low to mid 40s.

The number who Strongly Oppose the plan has remained above 40% and the Strongly Favor totals have been in the mid-20s. This suggests public opinion is hardening when it comes to the plan that is currently working its way through Congress.

However, now just 48% say that health care reform plan is at least somewhat likely to pass this year, a figure that has been trending down in recent days. That figure includes 17% who say passage is Very Likely.

more here..
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...th_care_reform

[DragonStryk72]

Problem is, BP, that you are trusting the same system you are complaining about.

This new health care plan won't fix the broken one we have already, it's simply going to add another layer of beaucracy, and yeah, that ALWAYS works out better, doesn't it? Seriously, the same system that was in charge of Katrina, is going to be in charge of my health care? Nah, I don't see it happening.

You are right though, Single payer is likely the best option, where people don't NEED to depend on their jobs to provide the health care, they can do it independently, but that requires less government involvement, not more.

[red states rule]

Problem is, BP, that you are trusting the same system you are complaining about.

This new health care plan won't fix the broken one we have already, it's simply going to add another layer of beaucracy, and yeah, that ALWAYS works out better, doesn't it? Seriously, the same system that was in charge of Katrina, is going to be in charge of my health care? Nah, I don't see it happening.

You are right though, Single payer is likely the best option, where people don't NEED to depend on their jobs to provide the health care, they can do it independently, but that requires less government involvement, not more.

Yea, sounds great. Depend on government instead of yourself

Sounds like a loyal lifetime Dem voter

[Missileman]

Sorry Red, but the specter of fines only raises its ugly head under a draft bill introduced by Democrat In Name Only, Senator Max Baucus (D{for 'douchebag'} - MT)

But hey...keep grasping at those straws the right wing-nut punditocracy throws at you. It's al y'all have left. Heh.

I'm pretty sure forced participation was part of Obama's joint-session speech, so it's not just Baucus's idea.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. Seems doctors want it to change.
2. They should know more about this some arm chair locals blathering on about how change is bad.
3. Bully knows whats going on, and so do I , what we have here is a failure to communicate.
4. We have RSR in one corner, who was recently hospital ridden, and came out of his illness 12k in debt.
5. And he has supposed good insurance.
6. Sounds like he was screwed if you asked me.
7. Then we got several healthy people who claim to have good insurance, but until they have some reason to use it we will never know.
8. So all in all we got nothing that supports the healthcare system we presently have.
9. We have Bullys facts, how hes seen people who could of been saved, but they didnt have insurance, and they worked two jobs, still didnt have it.
10. We have my constant ramblings about how what we now have isn't fair, to anyone, which I believe true.
11. So all in all, our side wins the Debate!
12. Next!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[stephanie]

Sorry bout that,


1. Seems doctors want it to change.
2. They should know more about this some arm chair locals blathering on about how change is bad.
3. Bully knows whats going on, and so do I , what we have here is a failure to communicate.
4. We have RSR in one corner, who was recently hospital ridden, and came out of his illness 12k in debt.
5. And he has supposed good insurance.
6. Sounds like he was screwed if you asked me.
7. Then we got several healthy people who claim to have good insurance, but until they have some reason to use it we will never know.
8. So all in all we got nothing that supports the healthcare system we presently have.
9. We have Bullys facts, how hes seen people who could of been saved, but they didnt have insurance, and they worked two jobs, still didnt have it.
10. We have my constant ramblings about how what we now have isn't fair, to anyone, which I believe true.
11. So all in all, our side wins the Debate!
12. Next!


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

I wonder if Obamacare will cover psychiatric admissions?:slap:

:coffee:

[chesswarsnow]

SOrry bout that,





I wonder if Obamacare will cover psychiatric admissions?:slap:

:coffee:




1. Im sure it will, you do come off as a little nutty.
2. So worry not, you will be covered!:laugh2:


Regards,
SiramesofTexas

[bullypulpit]

I'm pretty sure forced participation was part of Obama's joint-session speech, so it's not just Baucus's idea.

Indeed, the massive fines, however, ARE from Baucus' giveaway to the insurance companies. What isn't required under the plan Obama laid out, however, is that anyone change their current coverage or doctors.

[stephanie]

Indeed, the massive fines, however, ARE from Baucus' giveaway to the insurance companies. What isn't required under the plan Obama laid out, however, is that anyone change their current coverage or doctors.

come on bully dearie, we have shown fact after fact, video after video that is not what is going to happen. do I have to get my hip boots out now when I talk to ya?

[Missileman]

Indeed, the massive fines, however, ARE from Baucus' giveaway to the insurance companies.

Whether you care to admit it or not, there are going to be fines under Obama's plan too...unless you can figure out another way to force people to buy health insurance they don't want.


What isn't required under the plan Obama laid out, however, is that anyone change their current coverage or doctors.

Newsflash! Everyone is going to be forced to change coverage to the public option if one is instituted because the federal government is taking all the steps necessary to put private insurance companies out of business.

Obama claims he can weed out 500 billion in corruption and waste from medicare to pay for his boondoggle. I personally think he's full of shit, but willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'll back his healthcare plans just as soon as he produces the 500 billion.

[Mr. P]

Whether you care to admit it or not, there are going to be fines under Obama's plan too...unless you can figure out another way to force people to buy health insurance they don't want.



Newsflash! Everyone is going to be forced to change coverage to the public option if one is instituted because the federal government is taking all the steps necessary to put private insurance companies out of business.

Obama claims he can weed out 500 billion in corruption and waste from medicare to pay for his boondoggle. I personally think he's full of shit, but willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'll back his healthcare plans just as soon as he produces the 500 billion.

I won't give him chit UNTIL he really has a plan. Then I'll have to think about it and what's hidden in there. If he can weed out 500 billion in corruption under some NEW plan, he can damn sure do the same NOW! IMO.

[Missileman]

If he can weed out 500 billion in corruption under some NEW plan, he can damn sure do the same NOW! IMO.

Oh...I totally agree. I consider it malfeasance on his part if he is aware of 500 billion dollars of fraud and waste in Medicare but isn't doing anything to end it. Maybe someone should charge his administration as accessories to it.

[crin63]

My mom ended up having most of her colon removed from cancer. If she had, had insurance it might have been prevented, but my parents couldn't afford it. She has to spend $300/mo out of pocket for her colostomy supplies because she doesn't have insurance.

But my parents are Americans and they understand that it is their own responsibility to take care of themselves, not the government, not other Americans. They have forcibly had Social Security monies taken from them all their working lives so yes in a couple years they will be on Social Security and a meager pension.

To address a question I read about church's helping neighbors. I'm just curious, how much did the neighbors put into the church? How much time? How much money? Probably nothing! Yeah there are some big denominations that may be rolling in $$$ but most of us little churches just get by. We do what we can, like someone personally putting up $4k for someone who needed a CT scan done to get it done. You don't put anything into it then why should you get anything out of it. Thats just another form of Socialism if you expect a church to do something for you when you never did anything for that church.

You stinking lousy liberals, if you want help with healthcare them get rid of some of your other social programs, quit taxing us to death and maybe you will find some charity.

Wealthy doctors, thats a hoot! You might wanna see how long it takes for a doctor to pay for medical school, you might wanna see how much they pay in malpractice insurance thanks to you bleeding heart take from anyone else liberals. You people make me sick! If you want insurance get rid of 2 of your 3 televisions, get rid of you cable TV, quit going out to eat, shop at thrift stores to buy your clothes, buy a car for cash instead of financing. You make the adjustments to pay for insurance. Get a 2nd job to pay for insurance. Quit taxing and suing others to get what you don't wanna work for.

[red states rule]

Indeed, the massive fines, however, ARE from Baucus' giveaway to the insurance companies. What isn't required under the plan Obama laid out, however, is that anyone change their current coverage or doctors.

So you admit, people should not have a choice in taking Obamacare. They must do it period

Again BP, what would stop major corporations from dumping thousnads of people into Obamacare by canceling their private ins plans and paying the 8% tax?

It has been sai over and over, the real intent here is to put private ins companies out of business, and make the Federal government the only game in town for healt ins

What is in the House bill BP, is if you change your current coverage you CANT'T buy a policy from a private company - you MUST take out Obamcare

When people see they will have to pay 13% of their income for Obamacare - I am sure the opposition will continue to climb. But please do not let that stop you BP. I want Dems to keep ignoring the voters, and try to ram this BS down the throats of America

2010 will be here before you know it - and you wil be whining about another stolen election, and how stupid the voters are

[cat slave]

chesswar said





Do you know why there is a Dr shortage in Europe?????????

Because they have 7-10 years in school depending on their specialty. In Europe they are paid a pittance, most less than 80,000 a year. Which is why people either leave or simply choose another profession.

Even here in the US the majority if physicians are either General Practitioners or Internal med. They make up to 150,000, not a bad number by any means. But, they pay high taxes and their malpractice insurance (for those lovely trial lawyers) is sky high.

If they start getting paid nothing, we will have the same problems Canada and Europe have too many people and not enough Dr's.


What kind of blithering idiot would go to school for years and years, e mass
10-100 thousands of dollars of debt to properly prepare oneself to be a doctor and
take on that commitment, pay exorbitant prof liability insurance premiums to
practice defensive medicine because they never know which patient has
him/her in their sites as a gold mine?

Put the blundering gov in that mix and even the most cerebrally challenged
can see where that will go. Why bother?

Enter the broken down white van with a BO logo painted over the former
red cross...get in line...take a number....maybe you will get to see...what,,,
a nurse? Tech? Probably no more than that. What few doctors that will
still be holding on will be operating 12-18 hours a day at the few hospitals
that are still functioning in the red.

Get your aspirin which by that time will cost $50 bucks a pop, go home and
if you are alive in 3 mos. give us a call.

[cat slave]

$150K???? And this is huge? Take out the prof liability insurance right off the
top. Unless they are making housecalls and doing all their own insurance filing, workers comp, disability and any and all
paper work and are holding an office with at least 2 employees (one front and
one for the back to assist), take out their salaries, benefits, office rent, license
fees, equipment, supplies etc. That 150K is reduced significantly, very much so.

Is that something you would want to do with all the hassles, emergency calls,
hospital rounds and general garbage from hypochondriacs.

Wow! What a lucrative venture! I wouldnt do it...would you?

[bullypulpit]

Whether you care to admit it or not, there are going to be fines under Obama's plan too...unless you can figure out another way to force people to buy health insurance they don't want.



Newsflash! Everyone is going to be forced to change coverage to the public option if one is instituted because the federal government is taking all the steps necessary to put private insurance companies out of business.

Obama claims he can weed out 500 billion in corruption and waste from medicare to pay for his boondoggle. I personally think he's full of shit, but willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I'll back his healthcare plans just as soon as he produces the 500 billion.

What part of "...nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have...", didn't you understand?

People are required to hav insurance to drive a car, why not health insurance? But if you already HAVE health insurance, You're NOY going to be forced to change ANYTHING.

<center><a href=http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/us/politics/10obama.text.html?pagewanted=print>Obama’s Health Care Speech to Congress </a></center>

Read the speach and think for yourself instead of repeating the mindless dreck the Rush Limbaugh's, Glenn Beck's, Matt Drudge's and the rest of the right wing-nut punditocracy spoon-feed you every day. :bang3:

[red states rule]

What part of "...nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have...", didn't you understand?

People are required to hav insurance to drive a car, why not health insurance? But if you already HAVE health insurance, You're NOY going to be forced to change ANYTHING.

<center><a href=http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/us/politics/10obama.text.html?pagewanted=print>Obama’s Health Care Speech to Congress </a></center>

Read the speach and think for yourself instead of repeating the mindless dreck the Rush Limbaugh's, Glenn Beck's, Matt Drudge's and the rest of the right wing-nut punditocracy spoon-feed you every day. :bang3:



http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=24446

[bullypulpit]

What would Jesus do? I'm pretty sure he never asked for a co-pay or deductible before healing the sick or excluded lepers for a pre-existing condition. ;)

[red states rule]

What would Jesus do? I'm pretty sure he never asked for a co-pay or deductible before healing the sick or excluded lepers for a pre-existing condition. ;)

When it fits you invoke Jesus - but you are one of many libs who constantly want to remove all references of God from the public view

Here is a poll on Doctors who say they will leave the profession if Obamcare passes

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=24417

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. This must needs be changed.
2. What people will have to pay will be equal to what they can afford.
3. Also they won't be refused access to healthcare.
4. Be forced to go broke as they do now.
5. Lose their business due to an illness.
6. That happens, everyday now, and must end.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Psychoblues]

Healthcare in America is pretty sad. Do I interpret you correctly, James?

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Missileman]

What part of "...nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have...", didn't you understand?

People are required to hav insurance to drive a car, why not health insurance? But if you already HAVE health insurance, You're NOY going to be forced to change ANYTHING.

<center><a href=http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/us/politics/10obama.text.html?pagewanted=print>Obama’s Health Care Speech to Congress </a></center>

Read the speach and think for yourself instead of repeating the mindless dreck the Rush Limbaugh's, Glenn Beck's, Matt Drudge's and the rest of the right wing-nut punditocracy spoon-feed you every day. :bang3:

Fine and dandy until the public option is the only thing left...and it will be if the gov't is allowed to go into competition with the private insurance companies. They are going to set in place rules, e.g. pre-existing conditions, that will make it impossible for private insurance to make a profit. The private insurance companies EXIST to make a profit...take it away and they'll cease to exist. The government doesn't have to make a profit...they can lose as much money as they want with the public option because they can just grab another pile of money from US. So Bully, I'd have to say that Obama's statement " Noone will be forced to change their coverage" is a big, fat, steaming pile of political double-speak...or in other words, a LIE.

But you didn't address the fines that will ALSO be a part of Obamacare...they are in there...maybe YOU should READ THE BILL yourself instead of taking the word of a bunch of crooked politicians, including Obama and their puppet mouth-pieces aka MSM.

So f**k the speech! Non-stop empty promises from a man who's already demonstrated he can't keep one doesn't sway me in the least. Read the bill, Bully...read the bill.

[red states rule]

Fine and dandy until the public option is the only thing left...and it will be if the gov't is allowed to go into competition with the private insurance companies. They are going to set in place rules, e.g. pre-existing conditions, that will make it impossible for private insurance to make a profit. The private insurance companies EXIST to make a profit...take it away and they'll cease to exist. The government doesn't have to make a profit...they can lose as much money as they want with the public option because they can just grab another pile of money from US. So Bully, I'd have to say that Obama's statement " Noone will be forced to change their coverage" is a big, fat, steaming pile of political double-speak...or in other words, a LIE.

But you didn't address the fines that will ALSO be a part of Obamacare...they are in there...maybe YOU should READ THE BILL yourself instead of taking the word of a bunch of crooked politicians, including Obama and their puppet mouth-pieces aka MSM.

So f**k the speech! Non-stop empty promises from a man who's already demonstrated he can't keep one doesn't sway me in the least. Read the bill, Bully...read the bill.

Why would BP bother to read the bill? He will demand it pass without reading it or knowing wehat is in it - just like all the Dems in Congress will do

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





Healthcare in America is pretty sad. Do I interpret you correctly, James?

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues




1. Yes that would be a proper conclusion after reading what I just wrote.
2. Where have you been under a rock?:laugh2:
3. I been bashing the status quo for months now.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[red states rule]

Sorry bout that,









1. Yes that would be a proper conclusion after reading what I just wrote.
2. Where have you been under a rock?:laugh2:
3. I been bashing the status quo for months now.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Yea, you hate the idea of having to pay for your own healthcare - you are in the camp where you believe you are entitled to someone elses money

[Psychoblues]

Are you dreaming or just imagining!??!?!?!?!?!??!



Sorry bout that,


1. Yes that would be a proper conclusion after reading what I just wrote.
2. Where have you been under a rock?:laugh2:
3. I been bashing the status quo for months now.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

1. WTF?
2. Where would you expect?
3. Ain't that a goddamned hoot?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[cat slave]

Fine and dandy until the public option is the only thing left...and it will be if the gov't is allowed to go into competition with the private insurance companies. They are going to set in place rules, e.g. pre-existing conditions, that will make it impossible for private insurance to make a profit. The private insurance companies EXIST to make a profit...take it away and they'll cease to exist. The government doesn't have to make a profit...they can lose as much money as they want with the public option because they can just grab another pile of money from US. So Bully, I'd have to say that Obama's statement " Noone will be forced to change their coverage" is a big, fat, steaming pile of political double-speak...or in other words, a LIE.

But you didn't address the fines that will ALSO be a part of Obamacare...they are in there...maybe YOU should READ THE BILL yourself instead of taking the word of a bunch of crooked politicians, including Obama and their puppet mouth-pieces aka MSM.

So f**k the speech! Non-stop empty promises from a man who's already demonstrated he can't keep one doesn't sway me in the least. Read the bill, Bully...read the bill.

Im seriously beginning to think he doesnt know the difference between what
is true and what is not. Seriously. Hes just not right.

[Psychoblues]

So the shallow observation depicts your attitude?




Im seriously beginning to think he doesnt know the difference between what
is true and what is not. Seriously. Hes just not right.

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[jimnyc]

4. We have RSR in one corner, who was recently hospital ridden, and came out of his illness 12k in debt.
5. And he has supposed good insurance.
6. Sounds like he was screwed if you asked me.
7. Then we got several healthy people who claim to have good insurance, but until they have some reason to use it we will never know.
8. So all in all we got nothing that supports the healthcare system we presently have.
9. We have Bullys facts, how hes seen people who could of been saved, but they didnt have insurance, and they worked two jobs, still didnt have it.
10. We have my constant ramblings about how what we now have isn't fair, to anyone, which I believe true.
11. So all in all, our side wins the Debate!
12. Next!

Bullshit. We have awesome coverage and I'm more than happy without the damn government ruining it.

I had 2 operations in the past few years and am thrilled with the coverage. I had a pilonidal cyst removed and much aftercare. Total bills would have been about $12k - didn't pay a penny.

Also went in for a nerve in my neck protruding into my spinal cord. Total doctor bills exceeded a bit over $90k - I paid $0.

I'd rather the loudmouths who proclaim they can save billions over the next few years by fixing current programs, do just that, fix that shit first and then worry about messing something else up.

[cat slave]

Sorry bout that,









1. Yes that would be a proper conclusion after reading what I just wrote.
2. Where have you been under a rock?:laugh2:
3. I been bashing the status quo for months now.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Then explain pray tell why people from all over the world come here to get
care???

Whats wrong with the system is cost driven up by frivolous lawsuits requiring
astronomical prof liability insurance premiums, the use of ERs as walk in
clinics by illegals and others, extravagant pay of nurses (ie, Baylor where
they work a week end and get paid for a weeks work)...one should only
receive compensation for work rendered and defensive medicine drs are
forced into doing to cover their backs because of the losers out there
intending to take anyone they can to the cleaners. Thats whats wrong
with the system.

People should be able to buy policies from across state lines too....it would
bring down costs if they had to be really competitive (insurance cos).

If you could get care for a catastrophic illness what country would you
choose to go to for care?????????????????

[DragonStryk72]

Why would BP bother to read the bill? He will demand it pass without reading it or knowing wehat is in it - just like all the Dems in Congress will do

Actually, not true, alot of Dems in Congress now are not getting on board with this. Now, seriously, how fucked does a bill have to be that even the party that's backing the bill goes, "Um, hold up, we're doing what?"

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,





Then explain pray tell why people from all over the world come here to get
care???

Whats wrong with the system is cost driven up by frivolous lawsuits requiring
astronomical prof liability insurance premiums, the use of ERs as walk in
clinics by illegals and others, extravagant pay of nurses (ie, Baylor where
they work a week end and get paid for a weeks work)...one should only
receive compensation for work rendered and defensive medicine drs are
forced into doing to cover their backs because of the losers out there
intending to take anyone they can to the cleaners. Thats whats wrong
with the system.

People should be able to buy policies from across state lines too....it would
bring down costs if they had to be really competitive (insurance cos).

If you could get care for a catastrophic illness what country would you
choose to go to for care?????????????????




1. I never said we didn't have the best care possible in America.
2. We do.
3. What Ive said, its a rigged system, where you may have to go broke, if you become ill here.
4. You may think your ins. covers what your surprised isnt.
5. That should not be.
6. Happens everyday, day in day out.
7. In order to protect the insurance collective.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[bullypulpit]

Fine and dandy until the public option is the only thing left...and it will be if the gov't is allowed to go into competition with the private insurance companies. They are going to set in place rules, e.g. pre-existing conditions, that will make it impossible for private insurance to make a profit. The private insurance companies EXIST to make a profit...take it away and they'll cease to exist. The government doesn't have to make a profit...they can lose as much money as they want with the public option because they can just grab another pile of money from US. So Bully, I'd have to say that Obama's statement " Noone will be forced to change their coverage" is a big, fat, steaming pile of political double-speak...or in other words, a LIE.

But you didn't address the fines that will ALSO be a part of Obamacare...they are in there...maybe YOU should READ THE BILL yourself instead of taking the word of a bunch of crooked politicians, including Obama and their puppet mouth-pieces aka MSM.

So f**k the speech! Non-stop empty promises from a man who's already demonstrated he can't keep one doesn't sway me in the least. Read the bill, Bully...read the bill.

Why is it that when the so-called capitalists on the right are faced with the possibility of genuine competition, they start shitting their pants in fear? Oh, and with so much of the profits going to pay the salaries and bonuses of corporate officers in health insurance companies, doncha think they could cut their salaries and bonuses and provide people the coverage they promise?

You really don't get it, and you never will.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


Why is it that when the so-called capitalists on the right are faced with the possibility of genuine competition, they start shitting their pants in fear? Oh, and with so much of the profits going to pay the salaries and bonuses of corporate officers in health insurance companies, doncha think they could cut their salaries and bonuses and provide people the coverage they promise?

You really don't get it, and you never will.



1. Just imagine what they pay for those 20 huge buildings here in my county.
2. Then the taxes on them.
3. Utility Bills.
4. Maintaining them.
5. Thats in the 100s of millions just on up keep, if not billions.



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Missileman]

Why is it that when the so-called capitalists on the right are faced with the possibility of genuine competition, they start shitting their pants in fear? Oh, and with so much of the profits going to pay the salaries and bonuses of corporate officers in health insurance companies, doncha think they could cut their salaries and bonuses and provide people the coverage they promise?

You really don't get it, and you never will.

And why is it, when you commie pinko liberals are faced with facts, you change the subject?

You didn't address at all the only logical conclusion to the gov't getting into the insurance business...is that an admission that you realize the consequences and are content with the inevitable move to single payer healthcare?

A government run insurance company would not be genuine competition as I've already explained. There are measures well short of the government going into the insurance business that would create genuine competition and there are other measures that could drastically reduce insurance costs. For some unexplainable reason, those measures are being ignored. The idiots in DC appear to instead have tunnel vision with their only goal being the annihilation of our medical system.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

1. What gets me in all this is,.......
2. Everyone's an expert on how all this is going to pan out.
3. As if they already know whats going to happen, if this is done, or that is done, this will happen, which will cause this and that.
4. Give me a freakin break!!!, no one knows what will happen if the government gives the people a *Public Option*.
5. This is just crazy talk on streiods.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Missileman]

Sorry bout that,

1. What gets me in all this is,.......
2. Everyone's an expert on how all this is going to pan out.
3. As if they already know whats going to happen, if this is done, or that is done, this will happen, which will cause this and that.
4. Give me a freakin break!!!, no one knows what will happen if the government gives the people a *Public Option*.
5. This is just crazy talk on streiods.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Consideration of the consequences of actions doesn't require psychic abilities. There's nothing crazy about applying common sense to derive those consequences.

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,







Consideration of the consequences of actions doesn't require psychic abilities. There's nothing crazy about applying common sense to derive those consequences.




1. Oh you're saying, "Take our word for it, we know."
2. I say its, "Crazy Talk" to think you know how things will progress with the changing of healthcare.
3. Good or bad, things have to be changed.
4. And it will change.:beer:


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[bullypulpit]

When it fits you invoke Jesus - but you are one of many libs who constantly want to remove all references of God from the public view

Here is a poll on Doctors who say they will leave the profession if Obamcare passes

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=24417

Pissed off that a non-Christians has to remind those claiming to be Christian how to act? Allow me then to fan the flames of your ire...

<blockquote> <b>32</b>And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

<b>33</b>And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34</b>Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

<b>35</b>For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

<b>36</b>Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

<b>37</b>Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

<b>38</b>When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

<b>39</b>Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

<b>40</b>And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

<b>41</b>Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

<b>42</b>For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

<b>43</b>I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

<b>44</b>Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

<b>45</b>Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

<b>46</b>And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.</blockquote>

And, As for the poll you cited, I'll trust that of <a href=http://www.rwjf.org/healthreform/quality/product.jsp?id=48408>The New England Journal of Medicine</a> over that of Investors Business Daily.

You see Red, the respondents who stated they would leave medical practice are more business people than doctors. And if training for MD's didn't leave the students with crushing loads of student debt, financial remuneration wouldn't be the issue that it is. Oh, and tort reform is nothing more than a canard. In Missouri tort reform legislation was signed into law in 2005 and guess what? The number of malpractice claims has dropped to an all time low, yet...mysteriously...the cost of malpractice insurance in the state has continued to climb. 7.5% in 2008 alone.

[red states rule]

Pissed off that a non-Christians has to remind those claiming to be Christian how to act? Allow me then to fan the flames of your ire...

<blockquote> <b>32</b>And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

<b>33</b>And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34</b>Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

<b>35</b>For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

<b>36</b>Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

<b>37</b>Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

<b>38</b>When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

<b>39</b>Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

<b>40</b>And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

<b>41</b>Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

<b>42</b>For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

<b>43</b>I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

<b>44</b>Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

<b>45</b>Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

<b>46</b>And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.</blockquote>

And, As for the poll you cited, I'll trust that of <a href=http://www.rwjf.org/healthreform/quality/product.jsp?id=48408>The New England Journal of Medicine</a> over that of Investors Business Daily.

You see Red, the respondents who stated they would leave medical practice are more business people than doctors. And if training for MD's didn't leave the students with crushing loads of student debt, financial remuneration wouldn't be the issue that it is. Oh, and tort reform is nothing more than a canard. In Missouri tort reform legislation was signed into law in 2005 and guess what? The number of malpractice claims has dropped to an all time low, yet...mysteriously...the cost of malpractice insurance in the state has continued to climb. 7.5% in 2008 alone.

Oh how meanspirited of me to expect Doctors to make a profit after spending years in training and education

I guess you should tell them they are to serve the collective rather then try to make a good living at what they do

Once again, you are only interested in winning a political debate rather then what is best for the nation and the people

Like with MNeicare, will Doctors have a choice to accept it - or should they take the hit and lose money on the deal? Or will you libs decide they must take it?

With fewer Doctors providing care, would help solve the problem of the cost of care, people will not get care period

[red states rule]

and allow me to remind you BP, the people are buying what you libs are selling


Health Care Reform
Opposition to Health Care Plan Hits New High of 56

Friday, September 18, 2009


Fifty-six percent (56%) of voters nationwide now oppose the health care reform proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s the highest level of opposition yet measured and includes 44% who are Strongly Opposed.

Just 43% now favor the proposal, including 24% who Strongly Favor it.

But the overall picture remains one of stability. While the numbers have bounced a bit following nationally televised appearances by the president to promote the plan, opposition has generally stayed above 50% since early July. Support has been in the low to mid 40s.

The number who Strongly Oppose the plan has remained above 40% and the Strongly Favor totals have been in the mid-20s. This suggests public opinion is hardening when it comes to the plan that is currently working its way through Congress.

However, now just 48% say that health care reform plan is at least somewhat likely to pass this year, a figure that has been trending down in recent days. That figure includes 17% who say passage is Very Likely.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

[red states rule]

The Day Obamacare Died - lets hope it happens sooner rather then later

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[Missileman]

Sorry bout that,











1. Oh you're saying, "Take our word for it, we know."
2. I say its, "Crazy Talk" to think you know how things will progress with the changing of healthcare.
3. Good or bad, things have to be changed.
4. And it will change.:beer:


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Only a total fucking idiot would propose change for change's sake. That you don't care that it turns out to be a disaster, as long as it's different, places you deep in that category.

[gabosaurus]

Here is a reality check for you:


The mortality rate for human beings (insured or not!) is 100%. Nobody gets out alive.

Awesome. :lmao:

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. What will happen will happen.
2. And what I think will happen, healthcare will get changed.
3. Wether I am a idiot, or not, won't change that.
4. Wether Im a babbling fool, won't change that.
5. Wether I sit in shit, smearing it all over my head, and licking my fingers, won't change the fact that healthcare *IS* going to change.
6. You will just have to get used to the change.
7. Won't we?:laugh2:


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[gabosaurus]

Chessy, an increase in mental health benefits would do you good. :p

[red states rule]

Chessy, an increase in mental health benefits would do you good. :p

Obviously it has not worked for you Gabby.

[Trigg]

Sorry bout that,

1. Shouldn't take so long to learn something.
2. Doctors should be able to pick something up in like 6 months.
3. I learn stuff the first time I see it.
4. All the govenment regulations keep doctors on the slow track in treating people.
5. That can be changed.
6. Which it wouldn't bother me if it did.
7. Also we can import doctors from the Philippines, they have tons of them willing and ready.
8. A hundred years ago they didn't get much for being a doctor, maybe a dollar a visit, or a chicken, that happened alot during the depression too.



I tell you what. You have surgeon with only a years schooling. I'll stick with someone who knows what they're doing.

Dr's in the Philippines go to school just as long as anywhere else, AND they still have to pass the tests to practice medicine in the US.

You ignored that part about physican shortages in Europe and Canada. So, once again, what do you do when people decide it isn't work the time to spend so much time in school and come out making NO MONEY????????

Shortages and rationing of care..........enjoy. Europe already has this problem as does Canada.

[Trigg]

Sorry bout that,

1. This must needs be changed.
2. What people will have to pay will be equal to what they can afford.
3. Also they won't be refused access to healthcare.
4. Be forced to go broke as they do now.
5. Lose their business due to an illness.
6. That happens, everyday now, and must end.


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

You simply can't add 45 million people to our healthcare and then say "oh there won't be rationing". What is the color of the sky in your world?????????

PEOPLE ARE NOT DENIED HEALTHCARE IN THIS COUNTRY. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR AN ER TO REFUSE CARE. what part of that don't you get????????????

[theHawk]

Did I even SAY that it was "...the fault of the American people"? DId I assign ANY blame at all? NO. I stated "...the fucking system is just fine the way it is you asshats." You know...heavy handed sarcasm. But you probably don't.

Early detection by means of regular visits to a doctor...you know, effing preventive care...would have likely caught the problem before it got to this point. SO no cat-slave, it's not "red-hot cancer" that led the patient to their current straights. It's the lack of affordable health-care.

Like it or not, we pay far more by failing to provide affordable health-care than we would in providing it. A visit to a doctor's office is about $60 to $100. A simple ER visit with no x-rays or other diagnostic tests can easily run $600. And since the uninsured use emergency departments for their primary care, they show up far sicker, requiring admission, often to critical care units where a stay can cost around <a href=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15942342>$3000 a day</a> at a minimum. These costs get passed on to private pay, read as "Those of us with insurance", in the form of higher health insurance premiums, higher deductibles and higher co-pays. In turn these added costs can force employers to drop health insurance coverage for their employees, thus forcing more people into the ranks of the uninsured. It's a vicious cycle, one which most people...as in y'all...the Glenn becks, Rush Limbaugh's and the rest of the right wing-nut punditocracy never see except as statistics. They, and you asshats here, NEVER see the human toll, the bankruptcies, the deaths...All because people can't afford insurance or insurance companies drop people when they file a claim. Until you do, do us all a favor and have a nice big cup of STFU. Okay?

LOL, no one here sees the human toll of our health care system? So conservatives don't have family that get sick? That die? Wake up Bully :poke:


The main reason people don't have insurance is because of costs, and/or misplaced priorities. A government takeover is only going to raise costs, making it harder for everyone to get insurance, and causing the government to ration health care. Why do liberals oppose lifting the regulations and laws that prohibit insurance companies from competing against each other across state borders? Why do they favor few insurance companies holding monopolies within each state? But we all know the answer to those questions don't we? Liberals want to screw up the health system with these idiotic regulations so they can push for a government takeover to "fix everything". In the end the liberal agenda is all about government takeover, not genuine concern for providing high quality health care for everyone.