White House cannot find 4 years of Karl Rove's emails

[Samantha]

WASHINGTON -- The fight over documents has gone to red alert. The White House acknowledges it cannot find four years' worth of e-mails from chief political strategist Karl Rove. The admission has thrust the Democrats' nemesis back into the center of attention and poses a fresh political challenge for President Bush.

The administration has acknowledged that some e-mails missing from Rove's Republican party account may relate to the firing of eight U.S. prosecutors last year. The Democratic-run Congress is investigating whether the firings resulted from political pressure by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and the White House.

Karl Rove deleted his emails, illegally, and I am quite sure because they would have incriminated him in wrong doings of many kinds. He's a well known dirty trick playing, dishonest character, Bush's right hand man.


The Rove connection is sure to be raised when Gonzales testifies Tuesday before Leahy's committee. His appearance, Democratic and Republican lawmakers say, may determine whether the longtime Bush friend can hold onto his job.

Democrats plan to focus on the Justice Department's contradictory statements about the firings and Gonzales' shifting explanations of his own role.

He was part of outting a CIA agent's identity. He was part of nasty lies during the campaigns. He is a big reason why Bush's Presidency is a miserable failure. He had ties to the Abramoff scandal too.


If Rove deliberately deleted e-mails relating to the firing of the prosecutors, Democrats suggest, he could run afoul of a 1978 law that requires the White House to keep documents that relate to presidential actions, decisions and deliberations.

[Kathianne]

Why another thread?

http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=2416&highlight=rove+email

Isn't this basically spam?

[Samantha]

The other one was hijacked by people who post nonsense because they don't want to discuss Republican corruption.

Are you going to do that to this thread too?

[stephanie]

I guess posting another article on this...........Is suppose to make it TRUE..

All allegations..................STILL..

:lame2:

[Kathianne]

This one is specifically about Rove.

The other one was hijacked by people who post nonsense because they don't want to discuss Republican corruption.

Are you going to do that to this thread too?

LOL! Lots of folks dislike me for a variety of reasons, but hijacking threads is not one of them. Try a different tack.

[manu1959]

Why another thread?

http://debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=2416&highlight=rove+email

Isn't this basically spam?

she was losing the other argument so she started a new one....

4 years of emails gone...poof...there just must be all kinds of smoking guns in there that would prove everything we have always claimed....he doen'snt have any e-mails...he is guilty....

hey ....this is the wmd argument....:laugh2:

[manu1959]

The other one was hijacked by people who post nonsense because they don't want to discuss Republican corruption.

Are you going to do that to this thread too?

nonsense....too funny ...everyone didn't fall into lock step with you kerry rabbits so you took your ball and left....

you still have to prvove he intentionally deleted the e-mails...then you have to prove they were of national importance....or you cna just file charges then get him on a technicality like scooter....stop worring you will get your man....they can't help themselves

[Samantha]

I guess posting another article on this...........Is suppose to make it TRUE..

All allegations..................STILL..

:lame2:The truth is, 4 years of Karl Rove's emails are gone. Are you denying that fact?


she was losing the other argument so she started a new one....

4 years of emails gone...poof...there just must be all kinds of smoking guns in there that would prove everything we have always claimed....he doen'snt have any e-mails...he is guilty....

hey ....this is the wmd argument....:laugh2:In what way was the argument lost? You hijack threads with nonsense about stuff that has nothing to do with the issue because you don't want to discuss the actual issue.

Why don't you want to learn about anything? Why can't you understand and comprehend?

[OCA]

So what? Can I go through 4 years worth of your emails?

Stupid fucking law!

[Samantha]

So what? Can I go through 4 years worth of your emails?

Stupid fucking law!
That's what the leaders of the Soviet Union and China and Iran would say. They don't like transparent government either. Thankfully our founding fathers set it up so we can catch corrupt leaders like Bush/Cheney/Libby/Rummy/Wolfie/Rove and the rest.

You should move to one of those other countries that agree with you.

[loosecannon]

I guess posting another article on this...........Is suppose to make it TRUE..

All allegations..................STILL..

:lame2:

Of COURSE these are allegations.

But they are allegations that will be proven true. And besides the WH admitted to most of them anyway.

The WH has no fucking idea what the Logan act is tho.

[loosecannon]

So what? Can I go through 4 years worth of your emails?

Stupid fucking law!

Work e-mails, not personal, employers do it all the time.

[OCA]

That's what the leaders of the Soviet Union and China and Iran would say. They don't like transparent government either. Thankfully our founding fathers set it up so we can catch corrupt leaders like Bush/Cheney/Libby/Rummy/Wolfie/Rove and the rest.

You should move to one of those other countries that agree with you.

How many of those six are convicted of anything? 1. Would you like me to find you a list of Clinton admin. members and inner circle who served time?

Lol, hey you stepped in this not me.

[OCA]

Work e-mails, not personal, employers do it all the time.

Thats why you go the self employment route, still these are allegations from a rabid Demo congress bent on payback for Bubba, probably not a whole lot of substance considering their leader Pelosi couldn't think her way through a word search, emails were deleted, the content will never be known. lol

[stephanie]

How many of those six are convicted of anything? 1. Would you like me to find you a list of Clinton admin. members and inner circle who served time?

Lol, hey you stepped in this not me.

That would take up a couple of threads...:laugh2:

[OCA]

That would take up a couple of threads...:laugh2:


Sure it would, Bubba was fond of letting his friends rot in the hole rather than tell the truth.

[manu1959]

Work e-mails, not personal, employers do it all the time.

if you use work e-mail for personal stuff your boss can read it...

[avatar4321]

You know what, I highly doubt I could find 5 years of my own emails. So why on earth should this surprise you?

[Gunny]

Karl Rove deleted his emails, illegally, and I am quite sure because they would have incriminated him in wrong doings of many kinds. He's a well known dirty trick playing, dishonest character, Bush's right hand man.



He was part of outting a CIA agent's identity. He was part of nasty lies during the campaigns. He is a big reason why Bush's Presidency is a miserable failure. He had ties to the Abramoff scandal too.


Damn ... I can't even find the last 4 days ..... should I expect that knock on the door at any moment?:cool:

[loosecannon]

Thats why you go the self employment route, still these are allegations from a rabid Demo congress bent on payback for Bubba, probably not a whole lot of substance considering their leader Pelosi couldn't think her way through a word search, emails were deleted, the content will never be known. lol


I think, and moreso I hope, that I can speak for them when I say that I seriously doubt the current congress is motivated by a revenge urge over the ridiculously stupid and backfiring Clenis investigations.

I suspect and deeply hope they are responding to a mandate in the midterms, utter disgust with Bush's abuse of power and mismanagement, and real and pressing corruption within the admin.

Don't count on those e-mails being lost forever either.

E-mails pass thru two servers and several routers and the NSA has copies of ALL of them.

If there is will, there is a way.

[loosecannon]

You know what, I highly doubt I could find 5 years of my own emails. So why on earth should this surprise you?


One it isn't against the law for you to erase your and two e-mails are stored on servers and files created as permanent records.

Worlds apart.

[stephanie]

:eek:

White House E-Mails?

News/Current Events Miscellaneous Keywords: E-MAIL, WHITE HOUSE PHONE RECORDS
Source: Insight Magazine
Published: 4-24-00 Author: Paul Rodriguez
Posted on 04/24/2000 19:26:31 PDT by pollyg107
Amid thousands of "lost" White House emails are some reportedly involving Bill Clinton & Al Gore

4/24/00 - As Independent Counsel Robert Ray issues at least one subpoena involving the "lost" White House emails, Insight is told there could be previously unknown private emails involving President Bill Clinton.

Insight has also learned that Ray is preparing other subpoenas (at least one has been issued) to potential witnesses with direct knowledge of the overall emails issue, including outside contractors and former White House employees.

Moreover, separate subpoenas are in the works involving previously unknown long distance telephone records that have never been turned over to any investigating body. These records go back a number of years and show virtually every international call ever made from the White House complex and tens of thousands of domestic long distance calls, too.

Insight was the first to report in December 1998 the existence of the emails and an operation called "Project X" to keep the existence of the electronic communications secret, as well as the detailed long distance telephone records. (See http://www.insightmag.com for more details.)

News reports earlier this year, first by the Washington Times and then others, refreshed the email scandal story with new details about specific threats made to contract employees working on Project X. Congress, lead by Rep. Dan Burton, Indiana Republican and chairman of the House Government Reform Committee, has held hearings on the email matter and more are planned.

Now Ray has gotten involved, as has the Justice Department's Campaign Task Force.

When Insight first broke the emails and telephone billing records stories, the White House said it would turn them over to investigators. But in the intervening months since this did not happen. And in the fury of activity involving the impeachment of Clinton, the existence of the records was shoved to the sidelines and out of the public' eye.

Now, with witnesses willing to step forward and discuss the matters, Congress and federal probers are on the hunt again. That said, however, despite failure to secure the so-called lost emails and once "missing" telephone records, Ray has begun to close down various portions of his multi-pronged investigation of Clinton and others caught up in several White House scandals.

Officials with his OIC office have said privately, including to several members of Congress, that even though such materials have not been obtained -- let alone known about -- Ray is confident he has obtained everything he needs to reasonably conclude some probes, such as Filegate. This has puzzled a number of investigators on Capitol Hill, as well as some working within Ray's own office.

The existence of the emails and telephone records could provide substantial new leads to federal investigators, not to mention providing evidence to determine whether individuals have lied -- or told the truth.

The White House has sought to downplay the discovery of the emails as, initially, old hat first reported by Insight two years ago, only to then admit that not everything had been turned over to federal investigators. White House Counsel Beth Nolan, who denied the existence of the telephone records under oath, has said that on the matter of the emails there simply was a "disconnect" at the White House.

As Ray and congressional investigators begin searching for the emails and separate long-distance telephone records plus other domestic telephone records which Insight has recently uncovered, new evidence has surfaced that Bill Clinton and Al Gore emails also exist that no one knew existed.

The timing of these emails to or from the president and separately, to or from the vice president, may have direct impact on any number of investigations, including the campaign finance matter, the Monica Lewinsky investigation, Whitewater, Filegate and other alleged wrongdoing.

The Campaign Task Force interviewed both Clinton and Gore recently for several hours about alleged wrongdoing involving the 1996 election but, reportedly, neither the president nor vice president are targets of federal agents. A target is a person that has been notified he or she is the subject of a specific criminal investigation.

Of particular interest lately to some federal investigators in Ray's office, Insight is told, are possible emails involving Clinton during the height of the Paula Jones civil suit, particularly around the December 1997 time period. One well-placed source within the Executive Office of the President, or EOP, says that not all materials responsive to various subpoenas involving Clinton directly -- including emails -- were turned over.

Among such materials, are private telephone billing statements on special "outside" lines with a 6-3-8 exchange that could have been used by the president, given that several such phones are located in the residence.

These phone lines, including a handful installed for the DNC, or Democratic National Committee, in the Old Executive Office Building were previously unknown to federal or congressional investigators until Insight revealed their existence recently.

"We don't have such records," says one federal official. "We were told they did not exist and that includes the long-distance records you've reported on." Said a second federal official: "It's another surprise. What else have you got? What else don't we know about?"

Besides not knowing about the 6-3-8 telephones and long distance billing records or the emails, Insight is told that federal investigators were unaware until recently of possible Clinton-related emails found in the huge stash the White House has been sitting on for nearly three years without telling anyone.

It is not now known what is in these alleged Clinton emails and separate Gore-related emails.

But, according to EOP sources and others involved, based on ongoing general reviews within the White House, a fair number of the electronic messages appear to have been responsive to one or more previously issued subpoenas but were never turned over. These involve a variety of the so-called Clinton scandals, sources tell Insight. And they, reportedly involve Clinton and Gore directly.

"I can tell you that the White House counsel's office and others are reviewing the matter," says one legal source familiar with an ongong internal review. "People are nervous and from what I'm hearing, there may be some problems," this source says. What such problems are could not be determined.

The White House generally has not commented on the matter of late other than to say that it's hired an outside contractor to piece together the emails, which may run as high as one million. On the long distance telephone records, the White House has stayed mum other than a brief mention in one legal document affirming the existence of such materials notwithstanding Beth Nolan's testimony that they don't exist. And on this matter, a White House official tells Insight, "that was a mistake" that has been corrected, though an aide with the Government Reform Committee said they had not received such notice.

Ray's office also has declined to comment on its investigation, citing grand jury rules.

However, it's been learned that the OIC's office has issued subpoenas to current and former contract employees who may have knowledge of the White House emails, construction of the various mail servers involved (there are at least four), as well as former White House employees familiar with both the emails and long distance telephone records.

The same is true of the federal campaign task force, Insight is told.

Moreover, emails involving outside contractors are being sought be federal investigators, as well as access to previously unknown back up computer disks from virtually every White House employee who either left employment or moved to a new job at the White House or at the EOP.

"These tapes have never been searched in response to subpoenas," says a former White House official familiar with the issue. And there are hundreds, perhaps as many as 900 such "back up" tapes in storage, Insight is told.

The latest public move to secure such varied materials involves Ray's office, which issued a subpoena to the National Archives for any knowledge it's officials may have on such materials and knowledge as to how the White House has dealt with the storage of these records.

"The National Archives did receive a grand-jury subpoena from the independent counsel's office last week," said spokeswoman Susan Cooper. "It does relate to record-keeping practices of the EOP," she said April 24. "The National Archives does intend to comply as required by law," she added.

Government sources tell Insight the scope of the latest Ray subpoena deals with the rules, regulations and law involving the storage of records at the White House and the EOP, and what advice was ever given by the National Archives on the handling of such materials. It also asks the archives what records it has and/or knows about that may be stored at any government facility or rented spaces where such records may exist.

All copies and memos, as well as electronic notes involving the White House emails also is being sought by Ray and the Campaign Task Force from outside contractors, Insight is told. And there is plenty to obtain apparently.

By: Paul M. Rodriguez, Managing Editor
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a390502577e6d.htm

[CockySOB]

Don't count on those e-mails being lost forever either.

E-mails pass thru two servers and several routers and the NSA has copies of ALL of them.

If there is will, there is a way.

Valid points/speculation. In fact, the mail relays could involve many more than two servers, and each could implement a different maintenance plan. So yes, the messages *might* still exist, but given the time frame, I seriously doubt it. Unless the message passed through a server which incorporates full archival in addition to the normal store-and-forward process, it's doubtful that any of the servers preserved the messages.

From a forensics standpoint, given a packet stream dump, you *can* often rebuild the contents of the message, although the logistics requirements of performing such packet-trapping would be astronomical. Possible? Perhaps. But highly unlikely unless the communication is routinely monitored and recorded (preserved). Consider that such a mechanism would need to monitor specific network traffic and store that traffic, and you should be able to see that doing so is damn near impossible. If the NSA actually monitored such communications (aren't the liberals against this sort of so-called domestic spying) they would use a real-time filtering process on suspect data streams and only record packets/streams which meet the automated filter criteria. So no, the NSA most likely does not have copies of any such e-mails.

Now, is it possible that someone has the footprints of such e-mails? Yes. But highly unlikely.

[loosecannon]

If the NSA actually monitored such communications they would use a real-time filtering process on suspect data streams and only record packets/streams which meet the automated filter criteria. So no, the NSA most likely does not have copies of any such e-mails.



No the NSA stores all the data even if it doesn't get nabbed by the automatic filtering hardware.

One example of this that you are aware of is that way back in 2001 the NSA reconstructed all of the e-mails and phone calls of the 9/11 terrorists in order to figure out who they all were and who they were working with. They were very concerned about more cells.

Since then an astronomical leap in data retention and processing has occured.

I believe that they have at least a years storage of at least half the electronic communications occuring worldwide.

The WH? Probably a half dozen security ops process WH data stream.

The data is out there.

[Samantha]

You know what, I highly doubt I could find 5 years of my own emails. So why on earth should this surprise you?


Damn ... I can't even find the last 4 days ..... should I expect that knock on the door at any moment?:cool:

Do you work at the White House? If not, you are using a strawman argument.




By: Paul M. Rodriguez, Managing Editor
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a390502577e6d.htm

Free Republic? LOL! Insight? LOLOLOL!! Insight mag is owned by Moonie, Rev Sun Yung Moon, cult leader and Bush contributor. That's the mag that spread the lie about Obama going to a Muslim school and that Hillary's camp released the story. Both turned out to be bald faced lies. These are not credible sources any more than Truthout is a credible source after claiming Rove was being indicted. Don't you want the truth? Are you a liar lover?

[stephanie]

Don't you want the truth? Are you a liar lover?

You must be a joy to be around at parties......:eek:

[Samantha]

You must be a joy to be around at parties......:eek:Another nonsensical reply from stephanie. I don't expect much more. You can go back to reading the cult leader's stories.

[stephanie]

Another nonsensical reply from Stephanie. I don't expect much more. You can go back to reading the cult leader's stories.

I don't think I'd want to run into you in some dark alley..:eek:

[Trigg]

Free Republic? LOL! Insight? LOLOLOL!! Insight mag is owned by Moonie, Rev Sun Yung Moon, cult leader and Bush contributor. That's the mag that spread the lie about Obama going to a Muslim school and that Hillary's camp released the story. Both turned out to be bald faced lies. These are not credible sources any more than Truthout is a credible source after claiming Rove was being indicted. Don't you want the truth? Are you a liar lover?

Regardless of where she got this article which there are numerous. The Clintons "loosing" 900 confidential FBI files on "political enemies" which were stored in their own office did happen. Also the e-mails did happen.

Lets not forget Hillary shreading and destroying files in Vince Fosters office the day he died, yet she didn't know he was dead. Remember White Water???

This was a big inquiry. Take the time to read about it.

Whatevery is being suspected this time around HAPPENED last time around by those wonderful Clintons. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Samantha]

Regardless of where she got this article which there are numerous. The Clintons "loosing" 900 confidential FBI files on "political enemies" which were stored in their own office did happen. Also the e-mails did happen.

Lets not forget Hillary shreading and destroying files in Vince Fosters office the day he died, yet she didn't know he was dead. Remember White Water???

This was a big inquiry. Take the time to read about it.

Whatevery is being suspected this time around HAPPENED last time around by those wonderful Clintons. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.Whitewater was investigated for years. Nothing ever came of it except some whopping lies about murder.

It's time to move on, we are 6 years into George Bush's presidency. This shit is happening NOW. If you bring up Clinton every time we talk about Bush, you look like you're living in the past. Come to the present.

[stephanie]

Regardless of where she got this article which there are numerous. The Clintons "loosing" 900 confidential FBI files on "political enemies" which were stored in their own office did happen. Also the e-mails did happen.

Lets not forget Hillary shredding and destroying files in Vince Fosters office the day he died, yet she didn't know he was dead. Remember White Water???

This was a big inquiry. Take the time to read about it.

Whatever is being suspected this time around HAPPENED last time around by those wonderful Clintons. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Naa...They just brush all that aside and act like it never happened...
Because he was a DemocratIC president..
And then they couldn't call President Bush a criminal and the worst president there ever was...:laugh2: