The young - if they die...

[-Cp]

So..

To all the bible-thumpers out there who are convinced that 90% of everyone ever created will fry eternally..

What happens to the soul of an aborted baby? or other young person?

I can't WAIT to hear this one - this should be rich..


All ears here..

Please no platitudes - only use in-context Bible...

[SassyLady]

So..

To all the bible-thumpers out there who are convinced that 90% of everyone ever created will fry eternally..

What happens to the soul of an aborted baby? or other young person?

I can't WAIT to hear this one - this should be rich..


All ears here..

Please no platitudes - only use in-context Bible...


Well..........I personally believe every soul (whether it is an aborted baby, young person or one of the elderly) is nothing but part of God's energy and this bundle of energy, after it leaves the material body, will be absorbed back into the source energy until it's sent out on it's next path of discovery and experience.

I can't quote from the Bible because I quit reading it when I was 18. I retained what I needed in order to be a productive member of society and then I moved on to research and absorb other ideas and beliefs. I hope you don't think I'm just throwing out platitutes.....but it's hard to compress almost 50 years of soul-searching into a quote from the Bible.

[emmett]

Well......I'm not a thumper but I'll take a stab at it.


An innocent soul such as that of an unborn baby I would think has been extracted from the world by evil and for that very reason is assured because they have never sinned a place in heaven. An aborted baby would be the only type of person by which this would apply.

Just my opinion....



I'll also say this. Any person who has ever perpetrated the crime of killing an unborn baby will be as damned as damned can be. Number one they have to live with it every day of their life. I trust as well they will have to die with it for eternity.

[darin]

Not having scriptual basis for beliefs doesn't mean they aren't valid. God is bigger than the Bible.

Christ said nobody comes to God but thru him - that means He's the catalist. It's His call.

[Joyful HoneyBee]

Christ also demonstrated that he accepted little children unconditionally noting that grown men should follow their examples of their purity and innocence. All souls return to God, innocent souls are covered by Christ who sits on the mercy seat. Mankind may have no mercy, but thankfully Christ is the author of it.

But, the old testament had already clarified where the soul goes.....

Ecclesiastes 12

6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

[darin]

Christ also demonstrated that he accepted little children unconditionally noting that grown men should follow their examples of their purity and innocence. All souls return to God, innocent souls are covered by Christ who sits on the mercy seat. Mankind may have no mercy, but thankfully Christ is the author of it.

But, the old testament had already clarified where the soul goes.....

Ecclesiastes 12

6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


except we're born sinful. I think it's borderline sinful to even care too much about what God does with the souls of those children killed. I say that because the moment it becomes a game of who is right and who is wrong about the subject, it becomes prideful and/or divisive.

[Joyful HoneyBee]

You'll get no argument out of me on that point DMP. Scripture warns us of the consequences of passing judgment on others. We certainly want to measure our judgments carefully because by that measure we will be judged.

That said, we must judge actions at times, but none of us has the right to say this person will go to hell or that one to heaven. Only God will make that decision because only He knows the heart of each individual.

[darin]

righto.

Soon we'll get ppl calling for biblical proof selling drugs to kids is sinful. No scripture says it is...so it must be okay, right?

:D

[Joyful HoneyBee]

Wrong....it is wrong to do anything to anyone that is harmful. Scripture says that many times in many ways.

Hey, even big time drug lords won't let anyone sell drugs (or give drugs) to their own children, they would kill them for it.

[emmett]

You must spread some rep around Emmett before you can give it to Joyful Honey Bee again.

[darin]

Wrong....it is wrong to do anything to anyone that is harmful. Scripture says that many times in many ways.

Hey, even big time drug lords won't let anyone sell drugs (or give drugs) to their own children, they would kill them for it.

Look over there!!

<---------------- Seems you missed my point. ;)


But it's not wrong to do anything to anyone that is harmful. That notion is patently false. See Jonah. See Goliath. See Jesus' Crucifixion (Had he not gone thru that everything we do now would be meaningless - that harm done to him was absolutely the right thing to happen).

[Mr. P]

So..

To all the bible-thumpers out there who are convinced that 90% of everyone ever created will fry eternally..

What happens to the soul of an aborted baby? or other young person?

I can't WAIT to hear this one - this should be rich..


All ears here..

Please no platitudes - only use in-context Bible...

All that from our BIGGEST THUMPER on the board? :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Whatcha fishin for, CP? A quote you claim doesn't exist?

[PostmodernProphet]

Please no platitudes - only use in-context Bible...

/shrugs...then there is nothing that can be said, the Bible is silent on that question.....

I figure, since the Bible says that those would be first shall be least in the kingdom, perhaps those who got screwed over the most here, will be the first....

[glockmail]

So..

To all the bible-thumpers out there who are convinced that 90% of everyone ever created will fry eternally..

What happens to the soul of an aborted baby? or other young person?

I can't WAIT to hear this one - this should be rich..


All ears here..

Please no platitudes - only use in-context Bible...


God has not revealed nor does the Church teach how unbaptized infants
may be saved.

Father Ott in his Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, page 114, writes: "...emergency means of baptism for children dying without sacramental (water) baptism, such as prayer and desire of the parents or the Church (vicarious baptism of desire--Cajetan), or the attainment of the use of reason in the moment of death, so that the dying child can decide for or against God (baptism of desire--H. Klee), or suffering and death of the child as quasi-sacrament (baptism of suffering -- H. Schnell), are indeed possible, but their actuality cannot be proved from Revelation."

Ott continues, however, "Theologians usually assume that there is a special place or state for children dying without baptism which they call "children's limbo". Pope Pius VI adopted this view against the (heretical) Synod of Pistoia. http://www.cin.org/mateo/m920716a.html

My own belief on is that since man is born with original sin, the unborn child must be without original sin.

[-Cp]

http://www.cin.org/mateo/m920716a.html

My own belief on is that since man is born with original sin, the unborn child must be without original sin.

And what makes you believe that way?

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. All are born into sin, I would dare to say everyone born of a women is born into sin.
2. But judgement is justified, in the fact that not everyone has fallen into sinful intent.
3. One perfect example is Jesus Christ, thou born of a women, he was not a sinner, and did not sin.
4. Same goes with the unborn, and babies who never knew sin, they are not condemned for something they never have done.
5. It would make God an unjust God, and ofcourse God is just, and able to judge just judgement.
6. Jesus said, "Forbid not the children to come unto me"
7. His way of saying he loves all the children, and that they would be with him, if they perished young.
8. This is my judgement on this matter.



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[-Cp]

All nice platitudes..... would be nice to see some scripture, however...

[Joyful HoneyBee]

... the old testament had already clarified where the soul goes.....

Ecclesiastes 12

6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

That was in my earlier post, but here is more scriptural evidence..........

Also Jesus made it clear he is the intercessor for little children when his disciples rebuked them for crowding Him. The synoptic gospel accounts are as follows:

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 10:14
But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God

Luke 18:16
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

[-Cp]

That was in my earlier post, but here is more scriptural evidence..........

Also Jesus made it clear he is the intercessor for little children when his disciples rebuked them for crowding Him. The synoptic gospel accounts are as follows:

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 10:14
But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God

Luke 18:16
But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

I'm not sure what ANY of those scriptures have to do w/ the topic... but.. okay.........

[Missileman]

It really sucks when you have to make up exceptions for what are supposed to be absolutes...doesn't it! :poke:

[glockmail]

And what makes you believe that way?Scripture followed by simple logic.

[-Cp]

Scripture followed by simple logic.

But there's no scriptures I'm aware of that implicate your belief...

[Noir]

So CP, i'm curious, what are your thoughts on the issue?

[glockmail]

But there's no scriptures I'm aware of that implicate your belief...


Romans 5. Verse 12 says that "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin." And look at the evidence throughout verses 15–19: "Many died through one man’s trespass. . . . For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation. . . . Because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man. . . . Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men. . . . By one man’s disobedience many were made sinners."

Look at verse 16: "For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation." Who did it bring condemnation for? Adam only? No—verse 18 says, "Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men" (emphasis added). This is stated even more clearly by the King James rendering the same verse: "Therefore, as by the offense of one, judgment came upon all men to condemnation."

...

In the Gospel of John, Jesus says, "Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). In verse 5 he repeats himself: "Unless one is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0502fea5.asp