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View Full Version : Where does the idea that the Apostle Peter was the 1st Pope come from?


crin63
08-17-2009, 01:22 AM
I keep hearing this but I don't find it in the Bible.
avatar4321
08-17-2009, 07:40 AM
Tradition.

Course, He was never the Bishop of Rome.
Kathianne
08-17-2009, 07:57 AM
While a Catholic site, discussion is interesting:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Origins_of_Peter_as_Pope.asp

and another, which might be more your interest:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Was_Peter_in_Rome.asp
Monkeybone
08-17-2009, 10:12 AM
Those crazy Catholics.
glockmail
08-17-2009, 12:29 PM
The New Testament contains five different metaphors for the foundation of the Church (Matt. 16:18, 1 Cor. 3:11, Eph. 2:20, 1 Pet. 2:5–6, Rev. 21:14). One metaphor that has been disputed is Jesus Christ’s calling the apostle Peter "rock": "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).

Some have tried to argue that Jesus did not mean that his Church would be built on Peter but on something else.

Some argue that in this passage there is a minor difference between the Greek term for Peter (Petros) and the term for rock (petra), yet they ignore the obvious explanation: petra, a feminine noun, has simply been modifed to have a masculine ending, since one would not refer to a man (Peter) as feminine. The change in the gender is purely for stylistic reasons.

These critics also neglect the fact that Jesus spoke Aramaic, and, as John 1:42 tells us, in everyday life he actually referred to Peter as Kepha or Cephas (depending on how it is transliterated). It is that term which is then translated into Greek as petros. Thus, what Jesus actually said to Peter in Aramaic was: "You are Kepha and on this very kepha I will build my Church."

The Church Fathers, those Christians closest to the apostles in time, culture, and theological background, clearly understood that Jesus promised to build the Church on Peter, as the following passages show. http://www.catholic.com/library/Origins_of_Peter_as_Pope.asp

At St. Pete's in Rome his remains are in a crypt under the main altar, so that basilica is literally built on him.
5stringJeff
08-17-2009, 06:59 PM
I think Matt 16:18 is the Scriptural basis for Peter being the "Rock" of the Church. However, there were no Popes in the early church; each church was autonomous, and acted according to the will of its elders.
crin63
08-18-2009, 12:14 PM
In Matthew, I'm pretty sure that Jesus was referring to Himself as the rock that the church would be built on.

Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

If Peter then why didn't the rest of the apostles know that Peter was the Pope?
glockmail
08-18-2009, 06:52 PM
Pete was crucified by the Romans for spreading The Word. He deemed himself unworthy to die in the same way as The Christ, so he asked to be crucified upside down, and his last wish was granted.
Kathianne
08-18-2009, 07:15 PM
I think Matt 16:18 is the Scriptural basis for Peter being the "Rock" of the Church. However, there were no Popes in the early church; each church was autonomous, and acted according to the will of its elders.

Not too mention hiding to avoid martyrdom. Sort of like the Constitution. Within limitations, it's not a 'suicide pact.'
Kathianne
08-18-2009, 07:17 PM
In Matthew, I'm pretty sure that Jesus was referring to Himself as the rock that the church would be built on.

Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

If Peter then why didn't the rest of the apostles know that Peter was the Pope?

Hey, want to say that many believe there wasn't a Catholic Church, Protestantism popped up on it's own, never was a pope, put it in conspiracy forum.
crin63
08-18-2009, 07:45 PM
Hey, want to say that many believe there wasn't a Catholic Church, Protestantism popped up on it's own, never was a pope, put it in conspiracy forum.

First off I'm not a Protestant. I don't see anything that shows Peter was anything more than an Apostle of Jesus Christ, not that, that isn't important.

If he was the leader or supposed to be the Pope, then why did Paul withstand him to the face for his shunning of Gentiles? Why didn't John, Andrew and their mother not know that Peter was the guy when they asked to be seated a Jesus right and left hands?
Kathianne
08-18-2009, 08:12 PM
First off I'm not a Protestant. I don't see anything that shows Peter was anything more than an Apostle of Jesus Christ, not that, that isn't important.

If he was the leader or supposed to be the Pope, then why did Paul withstand him to the face for his shunning of Gentiles? Why didn't John, Andrew and their mother not know that Peter was the guy when they asked to be seated a Jesus right and left hands?

So, what 'are you'? I'm the nominal Catholic, not such a good one at that. BTW, my ex was Jewish.
crin63
08-18-2009, 08:35 PM
So, what 'are you'? I'm the nominal Catholic, not such a good one at that. BTW, my ex was Jewish.

I'm a Fundamentalist Baptist. My ex-best friend was Jewish. ;-)
Kathianne
08-18-2009, 08:38 PM
I'm a Fundamentalist Baptist. My ex-best friend was Jewish. ;-)

Baptist aren't Protestant? What are they?
glockmail
08-19-2009, 07:27 AM
Baptist aren't Protestant? What are they?Any Christian that isn't Catholic is considered to be protesting against the One True Church, hence the generic term Protestant.
crin63
08-19-2009, 09:38 AM
Baptist aren't Protestant? What are they?


Any Christian that isn't Catholic is considered to be protesting against the One True Church, hence the generic term Protestant.

Considering Baptists trace their spiritual roots back to John the Baptist and his disciples, it would be a tough argument for you to make that we were/are protestant.

My familial line is the only non-catholic line in my family. I have a cousin who is a Cardinal and another one who is a nun at the Vatican. My great grandfather walked away from the catholic church in the 1890's or 1900's.
-Cp
08-19-2009, 01:06 PM
I think Matt 16:18 is the Scriptural basis for Peter being the "Rock" of the Church. However, there were no Popes in the early church; each church was autonomous, and acted according to the will of its elders.

Actually the early church acted NOTHING like the so-called "Church" does today....
avatar4321
08-19-2009, 06:05 PM
Baptist aren't Protestant? What are they?

Some consider them protestant, but technically they were just autonomous groups. Im pretty sure they werent concerned with reforming the Church just living the Bible.
avatar4321
08-19-2009, 06:06 PM
Actually the early church acted NOTHING like the so-called "Church" does today....

its what happens when the everlasting covenant is broken and the ordinances are changed.
glockmail
08-20-2009, 12:30 PM
Considering Baptists trace their spiritual roots back to John the Baptist and his disciples, it would be a tough argument for you to make that we were/are protestant.

My familial line is the only non-catholic line in my family. I have a cousin who is a Cardinal and another one who is a nun at the Vatican. My great grandfather walked away from the catholic church in the 1890's or 1900's.

And all Protestants trace their roots to Christ.


One of the largest evangelical Protestant churches which stresses the authority of the Holy Scripture, adult baptism, and the autonomy of local congregations. It originated in sixteenth-century Anabaptist movements whose leaders came to England as they were persecuted elsewhere in Europe.http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O46-BaptistChurch.html

I have tremendous respect for the Baptists that I've met, since they tend not to pussy-foot around an issue, like most Catholics that I know.