Anti-health care revolts are staged

[gabosaurus]

We now know how effective Limbaugh and his right-wing cohorts are in rallying the weak-minded monkeybots to do his biding.
Limbaugh is perhaps the slickest talker since Joseph Goebbels. Who also helped rally a nation into revolt.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-dems6-2009aug06,0,5019934.story

[stephanie]

:lol:

Joseph Goebbels and his minions are now running the white house..

[Insein]

We now know how effective Limbaugh and his right-wing cohorts are in rallying the weak-minded monkeybots to do his biding.
Limbaugh is perhaps the slickest talker since Joseph Goebbels. Who also helped rally a nation into revolt.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-dems6-2009aug06,0,5019934.story

Perhaps you could provide some insight for your comparison. Or was that just an attempt at being witty? Goebbels worked for the government and managed the most well-known genocide in the history of man. Limbaugh works for a private radio station and has...? I can't seem to make the leap there.

However, Goebbels and Obama... alot of similiraties there as far as working for the government, slick talker, creating totalitarian rules to impose on the populus. No Obama hasn't caused a genocide yet, but there are scary similarities between the two.

[MtnBiker]

We now know how effective Limbaugh and his right-wing cohorts are in rallying the weak-minded monkeybots to do his biding.
Limbaugh is perhaps the slickest talker since Joseph Goebbels. Who also helped rally a nation into revolt.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-dems6-2009aug06,0,5019934.story


from the article;

Much of the fiercest opposition has been fanned by talk radio and conservative advocacy groups. But the bitter intensity is a pointed reminder of how hard it will be for Democrats to sell voters on a broad reworking of the healthcare system, even though they hold commanding majorities in the House and Senate.

There is a lot of assumption in your statement. Not one mention of Limbaugh in the article or how talk radio ir rallying a nation into revolt. Please explain, how exactly is Limbaugh rallying people? What exactly has he said to rally people?

[Mr. P]

Democrats had hoped that this month's congressional recess would give lawmakers a chance to explain the healthcare legislation and tell voters what's in it for them.

How do you splain something that's not complete that you haven't even read?

Revolt? Not yet but if this passes without the people being behind it (and they're not) there most likely will be a revolt not just a public outcry.

The people know this is not about health care reform and are saying so.

[crin63]

SO WHAT, if it were an orchestrated effort anyway. The only thing that proves is that there are allot of people opposed to Obamas plans. That the Dims are gonna have their heads handed to them in the next couple of election cycles.

Obama has awoken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.

[PostmodernProphet]

Anti-health care revolts are staged

you mean in the same sense that the townhall meetings being held by liberals to support health care are "staged".....yes, probably......

[Noir]

Anti-health care revolts are staged?

Surely all revolts are staged. Surly anti-war protests for Iraq and Nam were staged, and so are rallies in support health care ect.

Lame thread is lame.

[namvet]

isn't it funny the LA times is the ONLY paper she reads???? which is for the weak willed and weak minded and the bi polar

[namvet]

We now know how effective Limbaugh and his right-wing cohorts are in rallying the weak-minded monkeybots to do his biding.
Limbaugh is perhaps the slickest talker since Joseph Goebbels. Who also helped rally a nation into revolt.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-dems6-2009aug06,0,5019934.story

that's the idea. a revolt against communism

[stephanie]

notice the title of this thread..very deceitful...


Anti-health care..

yeah, we are all against health care for people..

tsk tsk

[cat slave]

We now know how effective Limbaugh and his right-wing cohorts are in rallying the weak-minded monkeybots to do his biding.
Limbaugh is perhaps the slickest talker since Joseph Goebbels. Who also helped rally a nation into revolt.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-dems6-2009aug06,0,5019934.story

Yep, they are staged. Staged by people exercising their free speech rights.
People who want America to stay America. People who are being overrun
by a messiah with a Marxist agends (and the "m" in messiah is always in the
lower case on purpose).

That must be your little girl in your pic. Think about what this admin intends
her world to be. Thank God my daughter and my grandson are grown, yet
still I fear for their world.

I will be killed by withholding of treatment if Im not lucky enough to croak
out instantaneously, my kids will have to pay for redistributing their wealth
after the government has taken my assets and you can all put on your
gray jackets with the little star on it, put in your 80 hours a week at your
assigned position of hard labor then toddle down the road to the used broken
down white van with a swastika painted over the red cross and receive your
mediocre health (?) care...oh, but it will be free. Will it really?

[Kathianne]

notice the title of this thread..very deceitful...


Anti-health care..

yeah, we are all against health care for people..

tsk tsk

Not too mention that the spin is now 'anti-hc', but that it's 'professional protests, by well dressed John and Janes.' LOL! What's not funny is that there is a serious effort by federal executive branch to shut the discussions down, thinking that the protests will go away. One way or another the people are going to be heard, the 'king' is playing with fire here.

[namvet]

the poster is once again gone. back under her rock.

[Trigg]

We now know how effective Limbaugh and his right-wing cohorts are in rallying the weak-minded monkeybots to do his biding.
Limbaugh is perhaps the slickest talker since Joseph Goebbels. Who also helped rally a nation into revolt.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-dems6-2009aug06,0,5019934.story

Gabby do you know anyone who works in healthcare????????? If so please go to them and have them explain medicare re-embursement to you.

The gov. that now wants to take over our health care and the very ones who are NOW making it so expensive.
If the gov. simply allowed medicare to reemburge the hospitals and Dr's offices at a fair rate there would be NO PROBLEM.

Medicare reemburses less than 40cents on the dollar. That causes the hospital to bill people with insurance at a higher rate. Insurance companies aren't the enemy either, they pay a fair rate, in other words they pay what they would have to IF THE GOV. WAS PAYING IT'S FAIR SHARE ALSO. So what happens then, people pay the remainder of the bill after insurance companies pay their share.

A CT/MRI whatever costs pretty much the same in NY as it does in CA. If the gov. started reembursing fairly the cost of tests would go down since the hospitals would no longer need to off set their costs.



The ONLY thing the gov. is going to do if they take over is SCREW THINGS UP........how do I know this????? Because the VAs and medicare are run by the gov. and they're both CRAP.

[gabosaurus]

The L.A. Times is the acknowledge newspaper of record in the Los Angeles area. Which is where I live.
Unlike you people, I do not rely on one-sided right-wing blogs for my information.


the poster is once again gone. back under her rock.

Unlike some people, I have duties and responsibilities. I can't sit on the internet all day reading blogs and posting on message boards.
Nam, perhaps you and RSR can get together and exchange suggestions about how to sit around all day doing absolutely nothing. Perhaps you can combine forces and double your decided lack of usefulness to society.

[Trigg]

My god, they can't even run cash for clunkers for longer than a week. That was a program that was supposed to run until Oct. on the first BILLION

[namvet]

The L.A. Times is the acknowledge newspaper of record in the Los Angeles area. Which is where I live.
Unlike you people, I do not rely on one-sided right-wing blogs for my information.



Unlike some people, I have duties and responsibilities. I can't sit on the internet all day reading blogs and posting on message boards.
Nam, perhaps you and RSR can get together and exchange suggestions about how to sit around all day doing absolutely nothing. Perhaps you can combine forces and double your decided lack of usefulness to society.

Nam is retired. and your paying my tax's. connect the dots. why are sitting around all day???? no job ????

The L.A. Times is an acknowledged left wing racial paper. why else would you read it???? back under your rock

[namvet]

[QUOTE=Trigg;378617]Gabby do you know anyone who works in healthcare????????? If so please go to them and have them explain medicare re-embursement to you.

The gov. that now wants to take over our health care and the very ones who are NOW making it so expensive.
If the gov. simply allowed medicare to reemburge the hospitals and Dr's offices at a fair rate there would be NO PROBLEM.

Medicare reemburses less than 40cents on the dollar. That causes the hospital to bill people with insurance at a higher rate. Insurance companies aren't the enemy either, they pay a fair rate, in other words they pay what they would have to IF THE GOV. WAS PAYING IT'S FAIR SHARE ALSO. So what happens then, people pay the remainder of the bill after insurance companies pay their share.

A CT/MRI whatever costs pretty much the same in NY as it does in CA. If the gov. started reembursing fairly the cost of tests would go down since the hospitals would no longer need to off set their costs.

consider this she's bipolar (bipolar)

make sense now ???

[gabosaurus]

Nam is retired. and your paying my tax's. connect the dots. why are sitting around all day???? no job ????

I work in education. My job starts later in the month. At the moment, I am being a full-time mom.



The L.A. Times is an acknowledged left wing racial paper. why else would you read it???? back under your rock

There is nothing left wing about the Times. It is owned by one of the world's most conservative corporations. And I don't see any racial about the Times. Or radical.
The right enjoys depicting any media source that dares to tell both sides as "biased." In their jaundiced view, there is only one side to every stores -- theirs.

[namvet]

I work in education. My job starts later in the month. At the moment, I am being a full-time mom.



There is nothing left wing about the Times. It is owned by one of the world's most conservative corporations. And I don't see any racial about the Times. Or radical.
The right enjoys depicting any media source that dares to tell both sides as "biased." In their jaundiced view, there is only one side to every stores -- theirs.

you want an atta girl pen??? I was a technical advisor/trainer for Sony electronics. my work is over - so get your ass to work. i need your $$$$

[QUOTE]There is nothing left wing about the Times. It is owned by one of the world's most conservative corporations. And I don't see any racial about the Times. Or radical.
/QUOTE]

:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2: i can't laff hard enough at this.

[Jeff]

The L.A. Times is the acknowledge newspaper of record in the Los Angeles area. Which is where I live.
Unlike you people, I do not rely on one-sided right-wing blogs for my information.



Unlike some people, I have duties and responsibilities. I can't sit on the internet all day reading blogs and posting on message boards.
Nam, perhaps you and RSR can get together and exchange suggestions about how to sit around all day doing absolutely nothing. Perhaps you can combine forces and double your decided lack of usefulness to society.

Gab if you read anything out of California you are reading a one sided paper

I travel all over the country and can tell you the messiah is going down, just left NY, not one kind work at all about him, hmmm back in November ya would of thought the 2nd coming of Christ was upon us when ya went threw there.

Hell even in the New England states no one ( well most ) wont admit to voting for this idiot, but by the way it sounds the land of fruits and nuts are still holding strong to there liberal beliefs, isn't that the state on the verge of completely going broke? Hell maybe they just like living that way.

[Mr. P]

Gab if you read anything out of California you are reading a one sided paper

I travel all over the country and can tell you the messiah is going down, just left NY, not one kind work at all about him, hmmm back in November ya would of thought the 2nd coming of Christ was upon us when ya went threw there.

Hell even in the New England states no one ( well most ) wont admit to voting for this idiot, but by the way it sounds the land of fruits and nuts are still holding strong to there liberal beliefs, isn't that the state on the verge of completely going broke? Hell maybe they just like living that way.

Tell it like it is!! Getting out an about really gives one a REAL feel for what the public thinks vs a local paper or TV talking head for that matter.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jeff again.

[namvet]

We now know how effective Limbaugh and his right-wing cohorts are in rallying the weak-minded monkeybots to do his biding.
Limbaugh is perhaps the slickest talker since Joseph Goebbels. Who also helped rally a nation into revolt.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-dems6-2009aug06,0,5019934.story

staged??? I heard they were being paid. wonder how much??? hmmm i need a part time job as an agitator. and boy am i good one don't you agree????

[sgtdmski]

You have to love the LA Times article. Dagett said. Hmmmm so because the Congressman said the members of the crowd were from the Republican and Libertarian parties we are to take it as fact???? I don't know about you, but if I were a reporter who was supposedly reporting on the news, I would have asked the members of the group who they were, where they lived and included that in the article, but then I guess that would actually mean having to work. God forbid a reporter actual do his job and report the facts. So all we have is the word of the Congressman and no other facts to support what he said. In a court this would be thrown out as heresay, so a reporter reporting unsubstantiated facts. Hmmm has the reporter been fired yet?????

And you have to liove Arlen Specters responses to not reading the legislation. You sometimes have to make fast judgments, correct me if I am wrong but did not the great messiah promise transparency and 5 days for all Americans to read the legislation???? So what is Specter doing with all his time.

Since our Congress does not have the time to read the legislation, here is a novel idea, let any legislation they pass apply to them as well as us. Right now it doesn't. They have their own healthcare, their own retirement, and are exempt from many of the OSHA regulations. It is time for a change. We need to make sure that any law that Congress passes applies to them as well as the rest of us, given those constraints I promise you, Congress would find the time to read the legislation.

dmk

[SassyLady]

We now know how effective Limbaugh and his right-wing cohorts are in rallying the weak-minded monkeybots to do his biding.
Limbaugh is perhaps the slickest talker since Joseph Goebbels. Who also helped rally a nation into revolt.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-dems6-2009aug06,0,5019934.story


Better to rally people to a revolt for their freedom than the slick way Obama rallied the nation to become a herd of sheep being led to slaughter.

[cat slave]

Better to rally people to a revolt for their freedom than the slick way Obama rallied the nation to become a herd of sheep being led to slaughter.

Very well said!:clap::clap::clap:

[SassyLady]

Thank you. I think we "well dressed" "astroturf" "fakers" are getting madder than hell and we aren't going to take it any more.

[red states rule]

The L.A. Times is the acknowledge newspaper of record in the Los Angeles area. Which is where I live.
Unlike you people, I do not rely on one-sided right-wing blogs for my information.



Unlike some people, I have duties and responsibilities. I can't sit on the internet all day reading blogs and posting on message boards.
Nam, perhaps you and RSR can get together and exchange suggestions about how to sit around all day doing absolutely nothing. Perhaps you can combine forces and double your decided lack of usefulness to society.

Gabby, why is it when you are boxef into the corner you lash out with the personal attacks?

This is so easy to prove it is nothing but liberal lies that were manufactured to to smear people who are speaking out against Dem policies

Here are the facts - read them if you realy do want to expand your horizions


http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=23901

[cat slave]

Gabby, why is it when you are boxef into the corner you lash out with the personal attacks?

This is so easy to prove it is nothing but liberal lies that were manufactured to to smear people who are speaking out against Dem policies

Here are the facts - read them if you realy do want to expand your horizions


http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=23901


In her defense, which Im sure she can take care of herself, she is young (if
that is truly her pic), in the educational system....I would expect nothing but
a liberal with good intentions and the misguided ideology that America is
bad and must change and mend our evil ways.

Give her some time. Most grow out of it.

[Dekon]

Is this a largely conservative dominated/run forum? Gabby looks like she's being beaten up on here...

Alright... I have to start by saying this - I am incredibly disappointed at the language and anger being posted here, and the lack of credible rational argument. Many of you are not providing any support for your statements, and seeing pictures of our president as the devil is not pleasant. I do not care if you don't like the man - you ought to respect him at the very least.

Having said that, I'd like to argue on Gabby's side - that health care reform is a good thing. And I'd like to do that using actual statistics.

I first heard these statistics from Fareed Zakaria on CNN - But CNN isn't Fox News, and I imagine many consider CNN therefore 'liberal media'. And in fairness, Fareed Zakaria does seem to hve a liberal bias. So I took the time to find the statistics myself, and here's a source for them. You can find them elsewhere, but this source has them all together :

(Alright, since I'm new I can't post links. This may be breaking the rules, but I feel it's important to cite my sources, so I'm going to break this up so it can be used)

w w w.huppi. com/kangaroo/L-healthcare.htm

Simply close the gaps between the w's, as well as the huppi. and com/

The premise of this website is a 'liberal' premise, but it is still actual unbiased statistics - they're just combined here to prove a point.

According to these statistics, the US has a lower life expectancy than all modern countries except the UK and Denmark, the worst premature death rate of -all- countries (this is recorded as several statistics - 1-4, 15-24, and any age below 64), the worst percentage of people with normal bodyweight except Sweden, and the greatest percentage of people who believe health care needs major change.

Here's the kicker - despite having the least percentage of people being covered by government health care, we PAY more percentage of our GDP for health care than ANY OTHER COUNTRY. Let me say that again - Even though we don't have universal health care like all these other 'evil socialist' countries, we spend a greater percentage of our GDP than anyone else on the small amount of universal health care we do give.

Also, privatized health care.. Really any privatized insurance.. is a bad idea.

Let's take a nice little example of privatized health care.

Fred is a health insurer, and gets 5 people to agree to pay $70 dollars a month for health care.

Now, let's explain what these 5 people have done. Each has paid for a product. They have paid for $70 of that product. In the real world, when we pay $70 for an item, we expect to get something worth $70.

However, Fred wouldn't make any money if everyone actually got $70 worth of health care. So in order to make money, the average expenses of all five people's needs needs to be -less- than $70. This may mean 1 person needs a $340 procedure, or each needs a $60 procedure, but if everyone needs a $70 procedure, Fred has a bad business model.

So now Fred gets big - he buys a building, highers employees, and now wants to make hundreds of millions of dollars. Fred's goal is still to make money. So Fred now has to cover all his expenses, plus his own wants. Fred starts working around regulations, paying less money, denying coverage, and overcharging. And suddenly the people Fred 'covers' are paying $300 when their average medical costs per month are $150 or less.

Now, if I pay $300, I expect a product worth close to that much.

Now let's say Fred has a come to Jesus moment, actually realizes that the bible never says anything like 'Jesus helps those who help themselves', and decides he actually cares about other human beings. Fred changes his goals - he doesn't want to make money any more. Fred's best option is to stop being an entrepreneur and get out of the 'Free Market', where greed and cheating win. Instead, Fred's best option is to try and find a way to bring down actual health care costs, which Fred might be able to control if he was in government - thereby being able to stop some fraud in health care. He knows that he might be able to set up a non-profit plan, whose goal isn't to make money but to actually and genuinely insure people. Fred can stop pushing unnecessary procedures on people (conservative estimates say that medical fraud occurs every 12 hours), and instead focus on giving people what they need.

Yes, there will be some waste, but Fred knows that insuring people as though health insurance were a giant public bank account rather than an attempt to get rich is a better option.

Will the government run health insurance perfectly? Of course not. But the private markets are absolutely horrible at it - because they don't care about you. They care about Mammon - the almighty god that is the dollar. And while you're afraid that the government will let you die on their plan (which is absolutely not true), the insurance companies would be more than happy to let you die if they got more money - it just so happens they get more money by putting you through a multitude of unnecessary procedures.

Lastly, let me say this - Rick Scott - the tall, thin bald guy who puts out the commercials telling you to not support this health care plan - is a health insurance company owner who was convicted of the largest health insurance fraud scheme in the US -ever-. Rick Scott is a very, very bad person, and you really shouldn't trust him.

[Noir]

I'd look out dekon, some fists are going to be coming your way thick and fast...

[stephanie]

Oh no fist, just Wtf was all that crap?

kinda like having the 1000 page health care bill they are now trying to shove down our throats..

and this thread was about the health care protest being STAGED..

[Dekon]

Oh no fist, just Wtf was all that crap?

kinda like having the 1000 page health care bill they are now trying to shove down our throats..

'All that crap' was a reasoned response with rational and statistical evidence, as opposed to an emotional outburst.

Here's a quick recap of the most important point : We pay more % of our GDP for healthcare -now- than any western country with nationalized health care (which is all of them, by the way).

[stephanie]

'All that crap' was a reasoned response with rational and statistical evidence, as opposed to an emotional outburst.

oh, that's what you called it..

but of course first you just had to chastise us all before you fed us that crap..

[Dekon]

oh, that's what you called it..

but of course first you just had to chastise us all before you fed us that crap..

Well, yes. What I had read in the previous posts was very mean-spirited and disrespectful to Gabby, and that does deserve rebuke. I would expect the same if I treated people crudely. She disagrees with you, and I assume she is an intelligent person with intelligent reasons, just as I assume all of you have intelligent reasons for your viewpoints. Treating someone like they are an ignorant 'sheep', as it was implied, is very disrespectful, and deserves rebuke.

[stephanie]

Well, yes. What I had read in the previous posts was very mean-spirited and disrespectful to Gabby, and that does deserve rebuke. I would expect the same if I treated people crudely. She disagrees with you, and I assume she is an intelligent person with intelligent reasons, just as I assume all of you have intelligent reasons for your viewpoints. Treating someone like they are an ignorant 'sheep', as it was implied, is very disrespectful, and deserves rebuke.

I rebuke you rebuking us..
you don't anything about our relationship with Gabby, yet you come here pretending you do..

[Dekon]

I rebuke you rebuking us..
you don't anything about our relationship with Gabby, yet you come here pretending you do..

Ok? I can only speak based on what I've seen, and she was rather directly insulted.

This still isn't really addressing any of the points I made...

[stephanie]

Ok? I can only speak based on what I've seen, and she was rather directly insulted.

This still isn't really addressing any of the points I made...

the point is, start your own thread to post your oh so intelligent analysis, but maybe you could be like a NORMAL person and write something us little unedumacated peons can understand..you sound and act like a typical liberal...have to write so much just to make a small point...this thread was about town hall meetings and whether they were being staged..

[Mr. P]

'All that crap' was a reasoned response with rational and statistical evidence, as opposed to an emotional outburst.

Here's a quick recap of the most important point : We pay more % of our GDP for healthcare -now- than any western country with nationalized health care (which is all of them, by the way).

A quicker recap..you don't have a clue about the health care reform topic.

[Dekon]

the point is, start your own thread to post your oh so intelligent analysis, but maybe you could be like a NORMAL person and write something us little peons can understand..you sound and act like a typical liberal...have to write so much just to make a small point...this thread was about town hall meetings and whether they were being staged..

I will admit to the second part of that - my post did not follow the topic. In my defense, the topic had strayed to the general viewpoints and perceptions on the health care plan long before I entered the discussion, and therefore I do not think I was far out of line. However, the topic is about townhall meetings being staged, and I did not address that much.

However, your first statement is very rude. I -never- insinuated any of you were 'peons' or anything of the sort. If I had thought any of you incapable of understanding my explanations and reasoning, I would not have wrote what I did. I did not call my 'analysis' 'intelligent' at all. I simply stated my viewpoints.

I think you're intelligent enough to read what I've written and disagree with me. I don't think I used language or concepts that degraded and demeaned anyone, or were too difficult to comprehend. I don't think I'm smart enough to write anything that is.

It does seem, however, that it's easier to attack me than examine my views..

[Gaffer]

Well, yes. What I had read in the previous posts was very mean-spirited and disrespectful to Gabby, and that does deserve rebuke. I would expect the same if I treated people crudely. She disagrees with you, and I assume she is an intelligent person with intelligent reasons, just as I assume all of you have intelligent reasons for your viewpoints. Treating someone like they are an ignorant 'sheep', as it was implied, is very disrespectful, and deserves rebuke.

Gabby is a disrespectful piece of shit and gets what she deserves. She has posted here for years with her liberal drab and when confronted by facts she makes personal attacks on the those that confront her. So go defend someone that deserves defending. You might want to read some other posts on here and get a better idea how people think before jumping in and chastising.

We have discussed the health issue in a number of threads for a month now. You have a lot of catching up to do. We can use a new liberal around here to hang out to dry. My bet is you will disappear as soon as the health debate is over. Here to put out the dark lords propaganda and then go on your way.

By the way he is the dark lord, not my president. He never has been and never will be my president.

[stephanie]

I will admit to the second part of that - my post did not follow the topic. In my defense, the topic had strayed to the general viewpoints and perceptions on the health care plan long before I entered the discussion, and therefore I do not think I was far out of line. However, the topic is about townhall meetings being staged, and I did not address that much.

However, your first statement is very rude. I -never- insinuated any of you were 'peons' or anything of the sort. If I had thought any of you incapable of understanding my explanations and reasoning, I would not have wrote what I did. I did not call my 'analysis' 'intelligent' at all. I simply stated my viewpoints.

I think you're intelligent enough to read what I've written and disagree with me. I don't think I used language or concepts that degraded and demeaned anyone, or were too difficult to comprehend. I don't think I'm smart enough to write anything that is.

It does seem, however, that it's easier to attack me than examine my views..

I'm rude, now that is rich...your first post to us was FRIGGEN RUDE..
and you'll find I don't take kindly to being REBUKED by someone who just jumps on the board and acts like they know all of us..
now...please start your own thread about your opinion on why you think we need Socialised health care, if you need help doing it, I'm sure someone who isn't RUDE will help you understand how to do it..

later.

[Dekon]

Gabby is a disrespectful piece of shit and gets what she deserves. She has posted here for years with her liberal drab and when confronted by facts she makes personal attacks on the those that confront her. So go defend someone that deserves defending. You might want to read some other posts on here and get a better idea how people think before jumping in and chastising.

We have discussed the health issue in a number of threads for a month now. You have a lot of catching up to do. We can use a new liberal around here to hang out to dry. My bet is you will disappear as soon as the health debate is over. Here to put out the dark lords propaganda and then go on your way.

By the way he is the dark lord, not my president. He never has been and never will be my president.

I'm going to try and take this a little at a time...

"Gabby is a disrespectful piece of shit and gets what she deserves. "

Admittedly, I don't know what she's said in the past. I saw nothing rude or mean thus far, but perhaps she is a very crude and disrespectful person. Even if this is true, it is one thing to call someone 'disrespectful'. It is another to call her a 'piece of shit'. The former is an attack on someone's action, and the latter is an attack on the nature of another human being.

I'm going to try and take an assumption here, and I could be very wrong - if I am, I apologize, and no one else need take heed of these words - but as you are presuming a 'dark lord', and given your signature, am I to assume you're a Christian? If so, then as a brother in Christ I will state now that it is -very- wrong for you to call anyone a 'piece of shit'. Ever. Forget politics, and forget liberal and conservative - if you do share my faith, than with the full backing of scripture I can tell you to love the enemy of your views, and never call them such a thing. If you don't share my faith, then I apologize - do as you please, though it is very unkind.

"She has posted here for years with her liberal drab and when confronted by facts she makes personal attacks on the those that confront her."

Well, I'm a liberal on several matters (though I'm pro-life and against gun-control). However, I don't believe your views are 'drab', and I would hope you would not view mine so simplistically. These are complicated matters, and we each have intelligent reasons for what we believe. Having said that - isn't 'personal attacks on those [who] confront' exactly what has been done in the past thirty minutes to me? No one has legitimately examined or countered my statements, and instead I have simply been yelled at for possibly disagreeing, and told that I don't know what I'm talking about.

"We can use a new liberal around here to hang out to dry. My bet is you will disappear as soon as the health debate is over."

I would rather have a loving and friendly discussion.. and you're probably right - if I'm simply called and idiot and my statements are not actually taken up for real discussion, I probably won't stay.

[stephanie]

OMg..can't even write a response without writing a BOOK...:tinfoil::bang3:

[Nukeman]

'All that crap' was a reasoned response with rational and statistical evidence, as opposed to an emotional outburst.

Here's a quick recap of the most important point : We pay more % of our GDP for healthcare -now- than any western country with nationalized health care (which is all of them, by the way).
Have YOU ever worked in health care?? If not I would suggest you do a LOT of research on CMS and the balanced budget act of 1996. YOU if your half as intelligent as you seem will quickly connect the dots as to WHY our health system is in the shape it is.

Prices for medical services are FALSELY INFLATED, what this means is that NO ONE pays the list price, everything is negotiated down (not really the government DICTATES what they will pay). The ONLY person who actually sees a full price is a cash paying customer and only if they don't talk to the billing dept and negotiate a lower price themselves.

Tell Ya what I will throw a couple of "statistics" and numbers at you.

Medicare currently reimburses at $0.22 on the dollar That means for ever 100 dollars billed they pay 22 do the math

Medicaid currently reimburses $0.04 on the dollar, that means that for every 100 dollars billed they pay 4...... thats right 4 freaking dollars.

That my friend is your government run health care. There is DIRECT correlation between what they say they will pay and the cost of health care.

Most and by most I mean ALL hospitals and clinic can not survive on what the government is willing to pay. The only way we will continue to have advancement in medicine is with reward. Hate to break it to you but most people are just not altruistic (doesn't put food on the table for their families)...

The federal Government is the primary culprit in the current mess.

I would like to ask you a question.

Why is it that you will spend MORE money for a SAFER car, or you will spend MORE money for a better house with newer and better energy saving appliances or the next big TV or a new Blue ray DVD and all the stuff that go with it when you could just as easily drive a shit brown ford pinto live in a crappy apartment and watch TV on a black and white 13inch CRT.

Why don't yo because you want the best. When you get the best it cost a little more so why all the bitching about the cost of OUR health care. Don't give me this crap of we are under every other industrialized country because we aren't. You have to remember we have 300 million people and most of the socialized countries have less that 100 million so the number are ALWAYS going to be skewed. If we have 100 people live to 100 and 10 die in gang shootings at the age of 16 guess what that skews our life expectancy... YOU have to look at the whole picture not just the little bit that one side want you to hear....

[Gaffer]

I'm going to try and take this a little at a time...

"Gabby is a disrespectful piece of shit and gets what she deserves. "

Admittedly, I don't know what she's said in the past. I saw nothing rude or mean thus far, but perhaps she is a very crude and disrespectful person. Even if this is true, it is one thing to call someone 'disrespectful'. It is another to call her a 'piece of shit'. The former is an attack on someone's action, and the latter is an attack on the nature of another human being.

I'm going to try and take an assumption here, and I could be very wrong - if I am, I apologize, and no one else need take heed of these words - but as you are presuming a 'dark lord', and given your signature, am I to assume you're a Christian? If so, then as a brother in Christ I will state now that it is -very- wrong for you to call anyone a 'piece of shit'. Ever. Forget politics, and forget liberal and conservative - if you do share my faith, than with the full backing of scripture I can tell you to love the enemy of your views, and never call them such a thing. If you don't share my faith, then I apologize - do as you please, though it is very unkind.

"She has posted here for years with her liberal drab and when confronted by facts she makes personal attacks on the those that confront her."

Well, I'm a liberal on several matters (though I'm pro-life and against gun-control). However, I don't believe your views are 'drab', and I would hope you would not view mine so simplistically. These are complicated matters, and we each have intelligent reasons for what we believe. Having said that - isn't 'personal attacks on those [who] confront' exactly what has been done in the past thirty minutes to me? No one has legitimately examined or countered my statements, and instead I have simply been yelled at for possibly disagreeing, and told that I don't know what I'm talking about.

"We can use a new liberal around here to hang out to dry. My bet is you will disappear as soon as the health debate is over."

I would rather have a loving and friendly discussion.. and you're probably right - if I'm simply called and idiot and my statements are not actually taken up for real discussion, I probably won't stay.

I gave my opinion of gabby. I have had her on my ignore list for over a year. She has nothing to say that I want to discuss with her. As far as I'm concerned she's a dead subject now.

I am a conservative atheist. I don't get into religious arguments. I respect other peoples beliefs unless they try to impose on me. Scriptures and guilt trips don't work on me. I do not get into name calling. I will call you out on things I think you are wrong about and I won't hesitate to make snide remarks.

So are you a true liberal or just a democrat that got sucked into the wake of the liberal take over? There really is no democrat party anymore, it's now the liberal socialist party. Led by the dark lord and his minions.

As RSR so often says, how's that hope and change going for you?

[Kathianne]

We now know how effective Limbaugh and his right-wing cohorts are in rallying the weak-minded monkeybots to do his biding.
Limbaugh is perhaps the slickest talker since Joseph Goebbels. Who also helped rally a nation into revolt.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-healthcare-dems6-2009aug06,0,5019934.story

Gabby how about looking at this premise rationally?

When can you remember Conservatives and/or Republicans protesting jack?

I do remember huge numbers sending bricks for a wall to congressmembers, regarding illegal immigration. I remember lots of letters regarding Dubai ports fiasco. However in these and similar instances, there was a government response, that quieted them down.

Now starting with TARP, many conservatives started to make noise, remember that was under GW, but he wasn't running again. The noise racheted up with 2nd TARP, but GW didn't care. It fell on Obama. Noise was being made about TARP, but then 'stimulus' went through and the noise got louder. Tea parties started. If memory serves most leftists said, 'LOL! How few and they'll go home.'

Well numbers grew in quantity of locales and numbers attending. Still silence from legislators, they agreed with the premise that 'these folks are not like that, they'll get tired and move on.'

But they haven't. Not because they never cared, but because for the first time, massive numbers were not effecting the votes. That pisses folks off. Last I knew, that is what a democratic republic was about.

[Kathianne]

SO WHAT, if it were an orchestrated effort anyway. The only thing that proves is that there are allot of people opposed to Obamas plans. That the Dims are gonna have their heads handed to them in the next couple of election cycles.

Obama has awoken a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.

It's not 'orchestrated' in the way implied. No one is being 'sent out' through incentives. Truth is the folks showing up are concerned for their future care and more importantly for future generations care.

There's not been one scintilla of evidence that there is any organization behind the turnout. Has there been notices of town hall meetings? Yes. What's wrong with giving that information? That people are showing up demonstrates their concerns. What are they being met with? SEIU and AFL-CIO and ACORN thugs.

Hello Nazis.

[Kathianne]

I'm going to try and take this a little at a time...

"Gabby is a disrespectful piece of shit and gets what she deserves. "

Admittedly, I don't know what she's said in the past. I saw nothing rude or mean thus far, but perhaps she is a very crude and disrespectful person. Even if this is true, it is one thing to call someone 'disrespectful'. It is another to call her a 'piece of shit'. The former is an attack on someone's action, and the latter is an attack on the nature of another human being.

I'm going to try and take an assumption here, and I could be very wrong - if I am, I apologize, and no one else need take heed of these words - but as you are presuming a 'dark lord', and given your signature, am I to assume you're a Christian? If so, then as a brother in Christ I will state now that it is -very- wrong for you to call anyone a 'piece of shit'. Ever. Forget politics, and forget liberal and conservative - if you do share my faith, than with the full backing of scripture I can tell you to love the enemy of your views, and never call them such a thing. If you don't share my faith, then I apologize - do as you please, though it is very unkind.

"She has posted here for years with her liberal drab and when confronted by facts she makes personal attacks on the those that confront her."

Well, I'm a liberal on several matters (though I'm pro-life and against gun-control). However, I don't believe your views are 'drab', and I would hope you would not view mine so simplistically. These are complicated matters, and we each have intelligent reasons for what we believe. Having said that - isn't 'personal attacks on those [who] confront' exactly what has been done in the past thirty minutes to me? No one has legitimately examined or countered my statements, and instead I have simply been yelled at for possibly disagreeing, and told that I don't know what I'm talking about.

"We can use a new liberal around here to hang out to dry. My bet is you will disappear as soon as the health debate is over."

I would rather have a loving and friendly discussion.. and you're probably right - if I'm simply called and idiot and my statements are not actually taken up for real discussion, I probably won't stay.

I hope you do stay and read a bit more of Gabby and others. Has she been rude and often ill informed? Yes. At the same time, often she is insightful and at least for myself I'll say I often respect her pov, while disagreeing with her.

[Binky]

Yep, they are staged. Staged by people exercising their free speech rights.
People who want America to stay America. People who are being overrun
by a messiah with a Marxist agends (and the "m" in messiah is always in the
lower case on purpose).

That must be your little girl in your pic. Think about what this admin intends
her world to be. Thank God my daughter and my grandson are grown, yet
still I fear for their world.

I will be killed by withholding of treatment if Im not lucky enough to croak
out instantaneously, my kids will have to pay for redistributing their wealth
after the government has taken my assets and you can all put on your
gray jackets with the little star on it, put in your 80 hours a week at your
assigned position of hard labor then toddle down the road to the used broken
down white van with a swastika painted over the red cross and receive your
mediocre health (?) care...oh, but it will be free. Will it really?



That's a very scary pic you've painted, Cat. But one I've envisioned myself. I have two young grandaughters that I worry about. I've been wondering what their world is going to be like in a mere 10-15 years. As we are all learning, changes can come very quickly depending on the dedication of those making them. Whose to say what this world is going to be like then? The change that's in the making isn't the change people dreamed of.

[namvet]

Well, yes. What I had read in the previous posts was very mean-spirited and disrespectful to Gabby, and that does deserve rebuke. I would expect the same if I treated people crudely. She disagrees with you, and I assume she is an intelligent person with intelligent reasons, just as I assume all of you have intelligent reasons for your viewpoints. Treating someone like they are an ignorant 'sheep', as it was implied, is very disrespectful, and deserves rebuke.

:bsflag: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dekon]

I gave my opinion of gabby. I have had her on my ignore list for over a year. She has nothing to say that I want to discuss with her. As far as I'm concerned she's a dead subject now.

I am a conservative atheist. I don't get into religious arguments. I respect other peoples beliefs unless they try to impose on me. Scriptures and guilt trips don't work on me. I do not get into name calling. I will call you out on things I think you are wrong about and I won't hesitate to make snide remarks.

So are you a true liberal or just a democrat that got sucked into the wake of the liberal take over? There really is no democrat party anymore, it's now the liberal socialist party. Led by the dark lord and his minions.

As RSR so often says, how's that hope and change going for you?

As I said, my reply was designated as a 'If you are a Christian, then...' As you're not, then ignore that part entirely.

I imagine most of you would consider me a liberal, and so I call myself that here. There are surely many more liberal than me. I don't generally call myself a 'Democrat' either. But comparatively to conservative viewpoints, I stand on the left more oft than not.

As far as the 'hope and change'.. we'll see. It's been 200 days. I didn't expect 'change' in 200 days.

[Insein]

As I said, my reply was designated as a 'If you are a Christian, then...' As you're not, then ignore that part entirely.

I imagine most of you would consider me a liberal, and so I call myself that here. There are surely many more liberal than me. I don't generally call myself a 'Democrat' either. But comparatively to conservative viewpoints, I stand on the left more oft than not.

As far as the 'hope and change'.. we'll see. It's been 200 days. I didn't expect 'change' in 200 days.

You didn't expect change in 200 days, but you sure got it. In 200 days, Obama and Congress have managed to almost completely eliminate the free market and turn us into a dictatorship. The American people have finally had enough though. What started as the tea parties has now spread to the rest of America. W're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore.

[red states rule]

'All that crap' was a reasoned response with rational and statistical evidence, as opposed to an emotional outburst.

Here's a quick recap of the most important point : We pay more % of our GDP for healthcare -now- than any western country with nationalized health care (which is all of them, by the way).

We also have the best healthcare system in the world

Under the Obamacare plan it will be illegal to buy your own health plan from a private company if you lose your current coverage

Illegals wil be given Obamacare

You will be FORCED to take Obamacare even if you do not want it

Care will be rationed and must be cost effective

If Obamacare is such a great plan, why did Congress exempt themselves, and unions from the plan?

This is NOT about providing health ins to the few million of US citizens who want it and can't afford it. It is about the Federal government taking over the health ins industry and deciding who gets care and who does not.

[cat slave]

That's a very scary pic you've painted, Cat. But one I've envisioned myself. I have two young grandaughters that I worry about. I've been wondering what their world is going to be like in a mere 10-15 years. As we are all learning, changes can come very quickly depending on the dedication of those making them. Whose to say what this world is going to be like then? The change that's in the making isn't the change people dreamed of.

It truly is and Im glad I dont have anymore kids to worry about than I do.
I wonder if anyone really thinks about this before they reproduce? Probably
not.

Yeah, the "change" is certainly not for the better by a long shot. But Im
not giving up...not by a long shot.

[cat slave]

And whats wrong with being "organized"? The town hall meetings are certainly
not spontaneous eruptions of service by the politicians...they are planned and
organized. And press conferences? Talk about "staging"! But if dissenting
taxpaying, hard working...or retired citizens demand their voices be heard
and their public servants do what they were hired to do, and not by the
lobbyists, by the taxpayers...well, thats a mob, not grassroots but astro
turf, oh yeah? Get used to it. We are in it for the duration. Promise!

[PostmodernProphet]

Now let's say Fred has a come to Jesus moment, actually realizes that the bible never says anything like 'Jesus helps those who help themselves', and decides he actually cares about other human beings. Fred changes his goals - he doesn't want to make money any more. Fred's best option is to stop being an entrepreneur and get out of the 'Free Market', where greed and cheating win. Instead, Fred's best option is to try and find a way to bring down actual health care costs, which Fred might be able to control if he was in government - thereby being able to stop some fraud in health care.

can you explain to me why Fred, after his come to Jesus moment, instead of helping people who cannot afford health insurance, decides to eliminate the system that has successfully cared for the health of 90% of the people in the country and replace it with a plan run by the government?.....

[Nukeman]

:bsflag: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*cough* *cough* TROLL *cough* *cough*


Way to add to the conversation there!!!!!!!!

[cat slave]

We also have the best healthcare system in the world

Under the Obamacare plan it will be illegal to buy your own health plan from a private company if you lose your current coverage

Illegals wil be given Obamacare

You will be FORCED to take Obamacare even if you do not want it

Care will be rationed and must be cost effective

If Obamacare is such a great plan, why did Congress exempt themselves, and unions from the plan?

This is NOT about providing health ins to the few million of US citizens who want it and can't afford it. It is about the Federal government taking over the health ins industry and deciding who gets care and who does not.

Well said and very accurate.:clap:

[Gaffer]

Let's quote the dark lord once again. "We have the greatest country in the world and we're going to change it."

I don't think anyone was really listening to him at the time.

[namvet]

are we looking at history in the making here???? a repressive alleged gov that calls it citizens names and backs it up with brute force ?????

[Kathianne]

are we looking at history in the making here???? a repressive alleged gov that calls it citizens names and backs it up with brute force ?????

There are too many instances that are leading to that conclusion. It would be great if we saw same change, but it's been getting worse.

[Trigg]

'All that crap' was a reasoned response with rational and statistical evidence, as opposed to an emotional outburst.

Here's a quick recap of the most important point : We pay more % of our GDP for healthcare -now- than any western country with nationalized health care (which is all of them, by the way).

Did you happen to read my post on the first page?????

In short. The gov. runs medicare and VA hospitals. VA's cost the gov. billions of dollars every year.

The gov. reimburses the hospitals less than 40 cents on the dollar for Medicare patients.

If the gov. closed all the VA's (providing the veterans with cards to take to ANY hospital of their choosing) and started reimbursing hospitals for a fair amount for the Medicare patients THE COST OF HEALTHCARE WOULD COME DOWN.

These are two things the GOVERNMENT RUNS that they are managing to screw up. Why should they be given any more power over our health system???

[cat slave]

The Alvin C. York vet hosp in Murfreesboro, TN is a shining example of
incompetence. The equipment used in performing colonoscopys was
not cleaned properly and not assembled properly resulting in exposure
of a large number of vets to HIV, Hep B & C.

I dont recall how many positive tests have come back but it was
a lot, like 40-50 or more for HIV.

Somehow I dont think that would have happened on such a large scale
in a private hospital setting.

[Monkeybone]

The Alvin C. York vet hosp in Murfreesboro, TN is a shining example of
incompetence. The equipment used in performing colonoscopys was
not cleaned properly and not assembled properly resulting in exposure
of a large number of vets to HIV, Hep B & C.

I dont recall how many positive tests have come back but it was
a lot, like 40-50 or more for HIV.

Somehow I dont think that would have happened on such a large scale
in a private hospital setting.

that is what happens when most (not all) gov businesses don't have to follow their own rules that the rest of us do.