How Is The Country Better Off After 100 Days?

[red states rule]

I'm about the same.

After billions in sbailout GM is still going under. The deficits are increasing daily. The Dow is moving sideways. I am more worried about the future with the all that this administration is spending. I'm not seeing how this is better,

Of course, there are alot of people who no longer worry about losing their job - they already have

Anyone else want to comment?

[Trigg]

I was gonna comment, but I just can't think of anyway we're better off.


We're deeper in debt.

We're looking at possibly another war.

We're still in the war bambam was so determined he was going to pull us out of. Now he's saying we may be there for 10 years.

The auto industry is no longer a private enterprise. They're in debt to US and still going into bankrupsy.


I guess the only thing that is better is that FOX news is #1, they're the only ones bothering to show both sides of the debates going on.

[Joe Steel]

I'm about the same.

After billions in sbailout GM is still going under. The deficits are increasing daily. The Dow is moving sideways. I am more worried about the future with the all that this administration is spending. I'm not seeing how this is better,

Of course, there are alot of people who no longer worry about losing their job - they already have

Anyone else want to comment?

Bush is gone.

Conservatism has been completely discredited.

Capitalism is being debunked.

We haven't started any wars in a few years.

[April15]

Bush is gone.

Conservatism has been completely discredited.

Capitalism is being debunked.

We haven't started any wars in a few years.:beer::dance::clap: That usually takes 20 years to accomplish!

[Trigg]

We haven't started any wars in a few years.


Holy shit bambam did this in 100 days. :lol::lmao:

[avatar4321]

Bush is gone.

Yeah, but that doesnt really mean things are better. You're begging the question here. And it doesnt have anything to do with Obama, He would have been gone regardless who won. How is this a victory for the left?


Conservatism has been completely discredited.

How can it be discredited when we still have yet to try it?


Capitalism is being debunked.

Funny, the economy seems to be going exactly as capitalism predicts it would.


We haven't started any wars in a few years.

Unless, of course, you count North Korea denouncing the 1953 Peace Treaty as they did earlier this week as an act of War. Which, Im sure they do.

Not to mention the fact that we havet started wars in decades. The other guys start them. We finish them

[red states rule]

I was gonna comment, but I just can't think of anyway we're better off.


We're deeper in debt.

We're looking at possibly another war.

We're still in the war bambam was so determined he was going to pull us out of. Now he's saying we may be there for 10 years.

The auto industry is no longer a private enterprise. They're in debt to US and still going into bankrupsy.


I guess the only thing that is better is that FOX news is #1, they're the only ones bothering to show both sides of the debates going on.

Spending massive amounts of money is fine as long as there is economic growth.

Economic growth is the key factor to economic recovery. The problem is, Obama's stimulus focused primarily on taxpayer paid jobs.

In order to sustain it, the government will have to come all of us for the money. Can you say tax increases for all of us? Which will make the economy tank even further

[Joe Steel]

Yeah, but that doesnt really mean things are better. You're begging the question here. And it doesnt have anything to do with Obama, He would have been gone regardless who won. How is this a victory for the left?

The question wasn't about the improvements Obama has made. It was about our condition. Bush's departure made us better-off.



How can it be discredited when we still have yet to try it?

Utter nonsense. Conservatism has been the driving force in American politics since Reagan first starting selling that snake-oil and just like snake-oil we've found that it makes us feel good for a little while but that it just doesn't work.



Funny, the economy seems to be going exactly as capitalism predicts it would.

You mean reacting to capitalists' bad planning and plundering? For awhile, perhaps, but it will recover as more progressive policies are implemented.



Unless, of course, you count North Korea denouncing the 1953 Peace Treaty as they did earlier this week as an act of War. Which, Im sure they do.

Not to mention the fact that we havet started wars in decades. The other guys start them. We finish them

Do you mean Saddam Hussein invaded Iraq?

I didn't realize that.

[jimnyc]

Do you mean Saddam Hussein invaded Iraq?

I didn't realize that.

He invaded his own populace many times and killed more than any legitimate foreign soldier ever did on their soil.

[April15]

He invaded his own populace many times and killed more than any legitimate foreign soldier ever did on their soil.Don't you remember that raygoon asked him to try out a gas on the populace to see if it was effective? Ronnie was preping for an assault on America by our military. And they were Kurds anyway. Turkish citizens many.

[Mr. P]

Don't you remember that raygoon asked him to try out a gas on the populace to see if it was effective? Ronnie was preping for an assault on America by our military. And they were Kurds anyway. Turkish citizens many.

I can't decide, April. Are you an IDIOT or a MORON?

[April15]

I can't decide, April. Are you an IDIOT or a MORON?Don't concern your little mind about such important things.

[April15]

Enjoy the read.






http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/arming_iraq.php



Sunday, May 31, 2009


Arming Iraq: A Chronology of U.S. Involvement
By: John King, March 2003

What follows is an accurate chronology of United States involvement in the arming of Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war 1980-88. It is a powerful indictment of the president Bush administration attempt to sell war as a component of his war on terrorism. It reveals US ambitions in Iraq to be just another chapter in the attempt to regain a foothold in the Mideast following the fall of the Shah of Iran.

Arming Iraq and the Path to War
A crisis always has a history, and the current crisis with Iraq is no exception. Below are some relevant dates.

September, 1980. Iraq invades Iran. The beginning of the Iraq-Iran war. [8]

February, 1982. Despite objections from congress, President Reagan removes Iraq from its list of known terrorist countries. [1]

December, 1982. Hughes Aircraft ships 60 Defender helicopters to Iraq. [9]

1982-1988. Defense Intelligence Agency provides detailed information for Iraq on Iranian deployments, tactical planning for battles, plans for air strikes and bomb damage assessments. [4]

November, 1983. A National Security Directive states that the U.S would do "whatever was necessary and legal" to prevent Iraq from losing its war with Iran. [1] & [15]

Donald Rumsfeld -Reagan's Envoy- provided Iraq with
chemical & biological weapons
November, 1983. Banca Nazionale del Lavoro of Italy and its Branch in Atlanta begin to funnel $5 billion in unreported loans to Iraq. Iraq, with the blessing and official approval of the US government, purchased computer controlled machine tools, computers, scientific instruments, special alloy steel and aluminum, chemicals, and other industrial goods for Iraq's missile, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs. [14]

October, 1983. The Reagan Administration begins secretly allowing Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt to transfer United States weapons, including Howitzers, Huey helicopters, and bombs to Iraq. These shipments violated the Arms Export Control Act. [16]

November 1983. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, is given intelligence reports showing that Iraqi troops are daily using chemical weapons against the Iranians. [1]

December 20, 1983. Donald Rumsfeld , then a civilian and now Defense Secretary, meets with Saddam Hussein to assure him of US friendship and materials support. [1] & [15]

July, 1984. CIA begins giving Iraq intelligence necessary to calibrate its mustard gas attacks on Iranian troops. [19]

January 14, 1984. State Department memo acknowledges United States shipment of "dual-use" export hardware and technology. Dual use items are civilian items such as heavy trucks, armored ambulances and communications gear as well as industrial technology that can have a military application. [2]

March, 1986. The United States with Great Britain block all Security Council resolutions condemning Iraq's use of chemical weapons, and on March 21 the US becomes the only country refusing to sign a Security Council statement condemning Iraq's use of these weapons. [10]

May, 1986. The US Department of Commerce licenses 70 biological exports to Iraq between May of 1985 and 1989, including at least 21 batches of lethal strains of anthrax. [3]

May, 1986. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade botulin poison to Iraq. [7]

March, 1987. President Reagan bows to the findings of the Tower Commission admitting the sale of arms to Iran in exchange for hostages. Oliver North uses the profits from the sale to fund an illegal war in Nicaragua. [17]

Late 1987. The Iraqi Air Force begins using chemical agents against Kurdish resistance forces in northern Iraq. [1]

February, 1988. Saddam Hussein begins the "Anfal" campaign against the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Iraq regime used chemical weapons against the Kurds killing over 100,000 civilians and destroying over 1,200 Kurdish villages. [8]

April, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of chemicals used in manufacture of mustard gas. [7]

August, 1988. Four major battles were fought from April to August 1988, in which the Iraqis massively and effectively used chemical weapons to defeat the Iranians. Nerve gas and blister agents such as mustard gas are used. By this time the US Defense Intelligence Agency is heavily involved with Saddam Hussein in battle plan assistance, intelligence gathering and post battle debriefing. In the last major battle with of the war, 65,000 Iranians are killed, many with poison gas. Use of chemical weapons in war is in violation of the Geneva accords of 1925. [6] & [13]

August, 1988. Iraq and Iran declare a cease fire. [8]

August, 1988. Five days after the cease fire Saddam Hussein sends his planes and helicopters to northern Iraq to begin massive chemical attacks against the Kurds. [8]

September, 1988. US Department of Commerce approves shipment of weapons grade anthrax and botulinum to Iraq. [7]

September, 1988. Richard Murphy, Assistant Secretary of State: "The US-Iraqi relationship is... important to our long-term political and economic objectives." [15]

December, 1988. Dow chemical sells $1.5 million in pesticides to Iraq despite knowledge that these would be used in chemical weapons. [1]

July 25, 1990. US Ambassador to Baghdad meets with Hussein to assure him that President Bush "wanted better and deeper relations". Many believe this visit was a trap set for Hussein. A month later Hussein invaded Kuwait thinking the US would not respond. [12]

August, 1990 Iraq invades Kuwait. The precursor to the Gulf War. [8]

July, 1991 The Financial Times of London reveals that a Florida chemical company had produced and shipped cyanide to Iraq during the 80's using a special CIA courier. Cyanide was used extensively against the Iranians. [11]

August, 1991. Christopher Droguol of Atlanta's branch of Banca Nazionale del Lavoro is arrested for his role in supplying loans to Iraq for the purchase of military supplies. He is charged with 347 counts of felony. Droguol is found guilty, but US officials plead innocent of any knowledge of his crime. [14]

June, 1992. Ted Kopple of ABC Nightline reports: "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980's, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into [an aggressive power]." [5]

July, 1992. "The Bush administration deliberately, not inadvertently, helped to arm Iraq by allowing U.S. technology to be shipped to Iraqi military and to Iraqi defense factories... Throughout the course of the Bush administration, U.S. and foreign firms were granted export licenses to ship U.S. technology directly to Iraqi weapons facilities despite ample evidence showing that these factories were producing weapons." Representative Henry Gonzalez, Texas, testimony before the House. [18]

February, 1994. Senator Riegle from Michigan, chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, testifies before the senate revealing large US shipments of dual-use biological and chemical agents to Iraq that may have been used against US troops in the Gulf War and probably was the cause of the illness known as Gulf War Syndrome. [7]

August, 2002. "The use of gas [during the Iran-Iraq war] on the battle field by the Iraqis was not a matter of deep strategic concern... We were desperate to make sure that Iraq did not lose". Colonel Walter Lang, former senior US Defense Intelligence officer tells the New York Times. [4]

This chronology of the United States' sordid involvement in the arming of Iraq can be summarized in this way: The United States used methods both legal and illegal to help build Saddam's army into the most powerful army in the Mideast outside of Israel. The US supplied chemical and biological agents and technology to Iraq when it knew Iraq was using chemical weapons against the Iranians. The US supplied the materials and technology for these weapons of mass destruction to Iraq at a time when it was know that Saddam was using this technology to kill his Kurdish citizens. The United States supplied intelligence and battle planning information to Iraq when those battle plans included the use of cyanide, mustard gas and nerve agents. The United States blocked UN censure of Iraq's use of chemical weapons. The United States did not act alone in this effort. The Soviet Union was the largest weapons supplier, but England, France and Germany were also involved in the shipment of arms and technology.


References:

1. Washingtonpost.com. December 30, 2002
2. Jonathan Broder. Nuclear times, Winter 1990-91
3. Kurt Nimno. AlterNet. September 23, 2002
4. Newyorktimes.com. August 29, 2002
5. ABC Nightline. June9, 1992
6. Counter Punch, October 10, 2002
7. Riegle Report: Dual Use Exports. Senate Committee on Banking. May 25, 1994
8. Timeline: A walk Through Iraq's History. U.S. Department of State
9. Doing Business: The Arming of Iraq. Daniel Robichear
10. Glen Rangwala. Labor Left Briefing, 16 September, 2002
11. Financial Times of London. July 3, 1991
12. Elson E. Boles. Counter Punch. October 10, 2002
13. Iran-Iraq War, 1980-1988. Iranchamber.com
14. Columbia Journalism Review. March/April 1993. Iraqgate
15. Times Online. December 31, 2002. How U.S. Helped Iraq Build Deadly Arsenal
16. Bush's Secret Mission. The New Yorker Magazine. November 2, 1992
17. Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia: Iran-Contra Affair
18. Congressional Record. July 27, 1992. Representative Henry B. Gonzalez
19. Bob Woodward. CIA Aiding Iraq in Persian Gulf War. Washington Post. 15 December, 1986
20. Case Study: The Anfal Campaign. www.gendercide.com




Article Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988

Article Chemical Warfare In The Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988

Article The Iran-Iraq War: Serving American Interests

Article The United States and Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988

Pictures of Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988

[Mr. P]

Don't concern your little mind about such important things.

I already know the answer April, I just wondered if you knew.

[PostmodernProphet]

Utter nonsense. Conservatism has been the driving force in American politics since Reagan first starting selling that snake-oil and just like snake-oil we've found that it makes us feel good for a little while but that it just doesn't work.


lol, damn that arch-conservative, Bill Clinton......and Reagan's reich-wing henchman, Tip O'Neil while your at it......

[PostmodernProphet]

Do you mean Saddam Hussein invaded Iraq?

I didn't realize that.

it was Kuwait.....among other things you fail to realize.....

[emmett]

Don't concern your little mind about such important things.


Damn P....you small brain. I agree with A15, I think it is imperative that we shut down all further activity until we decide whether he is an idiot or a moron. Even he admits that this is important stuff.:laugh2:

[red states rule]

Damn P....you small brain. I agree with A15, I think it is imperative that we shut down all further activity until we decide whether he is an idiot or a moron. Even he admits that this is important stuff.:laugh2:

There are some folks who do not have a problem with a tax cheat as Sec of Treasury, a $2 trillion annual deficit, doubling of the national debt, rising unemployment, government ownership of private companies, massive increases in pork and wasted taxpayer money pf do nothing programs, and expansion of the welfare state

[GW in Ohio]

How Is The Country Better Off After 100 Days?


We don't have an incompetent idiot in the White House, embarrassing us.
We have smart people in charge now. There are no guarantees they are gonna solve all our problems and bring back the prosperity we've known in the past (that may be gone for good), but at least with smart people in charge, you've got a shot. "Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."

[Insein]

How Is The Country Better Off After 100 Days?


We don't have an incompetent idiot in the White House, embarrassing us.
We have smart people in charge now. There are no guarantees they are gonna solve all our problems and bring back the prosperity we've known in the past (that may be gone for good), but at least with smart people in charge, you've got a shot. "Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."


I'll bet.

[Mr. P]

How Is The Country Better Off After 100 Days?


We don't have an incompetent idiot in the White House, embarrassing us.
We have smart people in charge now. There are no guarantees they are gonna solve all our problems and bring back the prosperity we've known in the past (that may be gone for good), but at least with smart people in charge, you've got a shot. "Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."


Smart people don't throw Billions of our tax dollars at a company/s that are failing...and will file bankruptcy anyway.

Try again..Wait to see what the Ohio UAW has to say first..Ok? They're NOT gonna be happy. :laugh2:

[glockmail]

How Is The Country Better Off After 100 Days?


We don't have an incompetent idiot in the White House, embarrassing us.
We have smart people in charge now. There are no guarantees they are gonna solve all our problems and bring back the prosperity we've known in the past (that may be gone for good), but at least with smart people in charge, you've got a shot. "Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Holly shit that was pitiful. 'We went from a decent economy to destruction of the US auto industry in 3-1/2 months and are heading for hyperinflation but the people doing the steering are real smart.'

My gawd you will swallow anything with the word "LIBERAL" stamped on it.

[red states rule]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Holly shit that was pitiful. 'We went from a decent economy to destruction of the US auto industry in 3-1/2 months and are heading for hyperinflation but the people doing the steering are real smart.'

My gawd you will swallow anything with the word "LIBERAL" stamped on it.

Glock, perhaps I should have titled this thread "Is the country better off dead after 100 days?"

[Joe Steel]

it was Kuwait.....among other things you fail to realize.....

No. The poster said the US hadn't started any wars in decades. If not the US, then, Saddam Hussein must have invaded Iraq in 2003.

[red states rule]

How Is The Country Better Off After 100 Days?


We don't have an incompetent idiot in the White House, embarrassing us.
We have smart people in charge now. There are no guarantees they are gonna solve all our problems and bring back the prosperity we've known in the past (that may be gone for good), but at least with smart people in charge, you've got a shot. "Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."


Smart people? Bring back prosperity?

GW do you know that in about 120 days, Obama and the Dems have added to the debt by 12%?

That means that each US households now owes an aditional $55,000 to cover the additional government spending

Despite $70 billion to GM, they gone belly up, more plants will close, more people will lose their jobs

How is this going to bring back "prosperity"?

Or will you blame it all on Pres Bush?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-05-28-debt_N.htm

[jimnyc]

No. The poster said the US hadn't started any wars in decades. If not the US, then, Saddam Hussein must have invaded Iraq in 2003.

Saddam started many wars within his own country. He then refused to cooperate with inspectors for years and failed to adhere to tons of resolutions. We didn't start a war with him/Iraq - we went in to do the work that he refused to do.

And again, Saddam has killed MUCH more of Iraq citizens that any legitimate soldier has ever done.

[avatar4321]

How Is The Country Better Off After 100 Days?


We don't have an incompetent idiot in the White House, embarrassing us.
We have smart people in charge now. There are no guarantees they are gonna solve all our problems and bring back the prosperity we've known in the past (that may be gone for good), but at least with smart people in charge, you've got a shot. "Life is hard; it's even harder when you're stupid."


1. Then you havent been paying attention to what's going on.
2. Then you havent been paying attention to what's going on.

[avatar4321]

No. The poster said the US hadn't started any wars in decades. If not the US, then, Saddam Hussein must have invaded Iraq in 2003.

We havent. Saddam started the war by invading Kuwait and refusing to comply with the ceasefire agreement. Not to mention terrorists flying planes into the World Trade Center. Or are you one of those conspiracy nuts?

[red states rule]

1. Then you havent been paying attention to what's going on.
2. Then you havent been paying attention to what's going on.

That is nothing new for Obama supporters. My liberal buddy is constantly shruging off the double standards, insane spending, the massive amount of pork, the government takeover of private companies - and acts like all is well in America