obama/biden hypocritical on taxes

[Yurt]

how are obama/biden not hypocritical on taxes when both of them filed under bush's tax plan and both used the maximum deduction in order to reduce their taxes.

all deductions appear legal, so i am not saying they did anything illegal. only that both said the rich should pay more in taxes to help america and that the bush tax cuts should be repealed. yet, both used whatever legal means possible, including using bush's tax rate, to lower their taxes. obama talks about reducing deductions etc...yet he and biden used as many as possible.

obama's effective tax rate approx. 33%
biden's effective tax rate 17%

[moderate democrat]

how are obama/biden not hypocritical on taxes when both of them filed under bush's tax plan and both used the maximum deduction in order to reduce their taxes.

all deductions appear legal, so i am not saying they did anything illegal. only that both said the rich should pay more in taxes to help america and that the bush tax cuts should be repealed. yet, both used whatever legal means possible, including using bush's tax rate, to lower their taxes. obama talks about reducing deductions etc...yet he and biden used as many as possible.

obama's effective tax rate approx. 33%
biden's effective tax rate 17%

no hypocrisy...no lack of patriotism.

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any
public duty to pay more than the law demands." Learned Hand

[Yurt]

no hypocrisy...no lack of patriotism.

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any
public duty to pay more than the law demands." Learned Hand

i see the man, the myth, the legend Learned Hand said that...but i don't see any quotes from obama or biden.

obama says the rich should pay more, the bush tax cuts should be repealed/expired.....yet, obama/biden both filed using bush's tax rates. and both used the maximum deductions possible. if you can provide a quote from them espousing why they say the rich should pay more and why bush's tax rates are bad for america, but we are going to pay this because our patriotic duty requires nothing more......great....post up

and i find it humorous that you quote a judicial officer to defend obama's taxes. you do know that a taxpayer does not have standing to bring a claim simply based on the government spending tax dollars.....

[red states rule]

i see the man, the myth, the legend Learned Hand said that...but i don't see any quotes from obama or biden.

obama says the rich should pay more, the bush tax cuts should be repealed/expired.....yet, obama/biden both filed using bush's tax rates. and both used the maximum deductions possible. if you can provide a quote from them espousing why they say the rich should pay more and why bush's tax rates are bad for america, but we are going to pay this because our patriotic duty requires nothing more......great....post up

and i find it humorous that you quote a judicial officer to defend obama's taxes. you do know that a taxpayer does not have standing to bring a claim simply based on the government spending tax dollars.....

Given Obama's cabinet choices - I am surprised they even paid their taxes

However, libs rant and scream how the country can't afford those evil Bush tax cuts - but the very libs who are so opposed to them take the tax cuts and do not send the money back to the US Treasury

I laugh when liberals say you are greedy if you want tax cuts. On the contrary, the greed comes from the left which is constantly demanding more and more money from the workers who keep America moving

[moderate democrat]

i see the man, the myth, the legend Learned Hand said that...but i don't see any quotes from obama or biden.

obama says the rich should pay more, the bush tax cuts should be repealed/expired.....yet, obama/biden both filed using bush's tax rates. and both used the maximum deductions possible. if you can provide a quote from them espousing why they say the rich should pay more and why bush's tax rates are bad for america, but we are going to pay this because our patriotic duty requires nothing more......great....post up

and i find it humorous that you quote a judicial officer to defend obama's taxes. you do know that a taxpayer does not have standing to bring a claim simply based on the government spending tax dollars.....

I see no reason for Obama or Biden to have to issue a statement when they do their civic duty and pay the taxes that they are required to pay. And next year, if the Bush tax cuts are repealed, we ought to expect them to pay a marginally greater portion of their net income to comply with those new higher tax rates.

[red states rule]

I see no reason for Obama or Biden to have to issue a statement when they do their civic duty and pay the taxes that they are required to pay. And next year, if the Bush tax cuts are repealed, we ought to expect them to pay a marginally greater portion of their net income to comply with those new higher tax rates.

Yet the left whines about tax cuts - yet they take them

That is if they even pay their taxes

[Jeff]

I see no reason for Obama or Biden to have to issue a statement when they do their civic duty and pay the taxes that they are required to pay. And next year, if the Bush tax cuts are repealed, we ought to expect them to pay a marginally greater portion of their net income to comply with those new higher tax rates.

Virgil given there choices for there staff ( that didn't pay taxes) and the fact that they are suppose to be our leaders , yes they should issue a statement .

Seems they should practice as they preach,and maybe Lead by example.

[red states rule]

Virgil given there choices for there staff ( that didn't pay taxes) and the fact that they are suppose to be our leaders , yes they should issue a statement .

Seems they should practice as they preach,and maybe Lead by example.

With Virgil, it is do as I say not as I do

[Jeff]

With Virgil, it is do as I say not as I do

Yes I am seeing that more and more.

[red states rule]

Yes I am seeing that more and more.

As far as taxes - it is unpatriotic not to be taxes if you are a Republican

It is standard operating procedure if you are liberal (and want a job in the current administration)

To people like Virgil, the purpose of any business is not to a make a profit - but to pay the highest tax possible

Also, his fellow libs scream how the nation can't "afford" tax cuts - but I am sure he and most of his liberal friends took those same tax cuts when they filed their taxes (if they filed them of course)

[moderate democrat]

As far as taxes - it is unpatriotic not to be taxes if you are a Republican

It is standard operating procedure if you are liberal (and want a job in the current administration)

To people like Virgil, the purpose of any business is not to a make a profit - but to pay the highest tax possible

Also, his fellow libs scream how the nation can't "afford" tax cuts - but I am sure he and most of his liberal friends took those same tax cuts when they filed their taxes (if they filed them of course)

I pay what taxes the law requires that I pay...and I will willingly pay a marginally increased amount of taxes when the Bush tax cuts are repealed.

[red states rule]

I pay what taxes the law requires that I pay...and I will willingly pay a marginally increased amount of taxes when the Bush tax cuts are repealed.

Good for you Virgil. If you want to pay more go ahead - ler the rest of us keep more of the money we earn

Or is that asking to much since you are blue nosed and blue blooded liberal?

Or are you more interested in funding such vital government spending programs like Pelosi's $40 million mouse, or a few more billion for ACORN?

[moderate democrat]

Good for you Virgil. If you want to pay more go ahead - ler the rest of us keep more of the money we earn

Or is that asking to much since you are blue nosed and blue blooded liberal?

Or are you more interested in funding such vital government spending programs like Pelosi's $40 million mouse, or a few more billion for ACORN?

pay what the law requires you to pay. that's all. don't like it? move.

[red states rule]

pay what the law requires you to pay. that's all. don't like it? move.

Gee that is so liberal of ya

and you talk about others ducking a direct question.

[moderate democrat]

Gee that is so liberal of ya

and you talk about others ducking a direct question.


direct question? you mean the thing about the mouse and ACORN? I could care less about either of those things and don't care if they are funded or not. THe point of this thread is: Obama and Biden paid the taxes they are required to. THey will, no doubt, pay any increased taxes that a repeal of the Bush tax cuts will cause them...as will I.

And AGAIN...if YOU don't want to pay the taxes that the law requires you to pay, move somewhere else.

[Monkeybone]

what's wrong about using reductions? if they are there then use them. and if Obama talks about reducing them, then oh well. he will pay more. just look at it that he has first hand exerience of how the amount of wealth that isn't being spread around ;) it was all research so that he knew how much to lower them.

and i guess shouldn't you blame his accountant for using all of the deductions? i would find it hard to believe that either of those guys did their own.

[Silver]

I see no reason for Obama or Biden to have to issue a statement when they do their civic duty and pay the taxes that they are required to pay. And next year, if the Bush tax cuts are repealed, we ought to expect them to pay a marginally greater portion of their net income to comply with those new higher tax rates.

Of course, being a hypocrite yourself, you miss the point....

Both the Messiah and his Disciple are of the mind that people in their income brackets don't play enough in taxes....if that their belief, they should pay what they belief is fair, not merely what the law required under President Bush....

They are hypocrites....are as you for defending their obvious lying bullshit about whats FAIR as opposed to whats LEGALLY required...

Your too much of a hack to separate the wheat from the chaff...

[Yurt]

i guess moderate democrat you believe that it is not hypocritical because the government did not compel obama or biden to act. obama said that bush's tax cuts were not good for america, that the rich (himself) should pay more...

all this, according to obama is better for america. yet, what you are telling me, is that even though obama told us that the rich should pay more to help america and that the bush tax cuts are bad, he does not have to act on helping america until the government compels him....

somehow i don't think that when you tell someone that acting a certain way is not in their best interest, you don't expect that person to not act that way until and only until the government compels them. obama and biden did not have to take the deductions. they could have instructed their accountants that america needs more revenue and since we are rich guys, we shoudl pay more in taxes.

[moderate democrat]

i guess moderate democrat you believe that it is not hypocritical because the government did not compel obama or biden to act. obama said that bush's tax cuts were not good for america, that the rich (himself) should pay more...

all this, according to obama is better for america. yet, what you are telling me, is that even though obama told us that the rich should pay more to help america and that the bush tax cuts are bad, he does not have to act on helping america until the government compels him....

somehow i don't think that when you tell someone that acting a certain way is not in their best interest, you don't expect that person to not act that way until and only until the government compels them. obama and biden did not have to take the deductions. they could have instructed their accountants that america needs more revenue and since we are rich guys, we shoudl pay more in taxes.

I expect a law abiding citizen to pay whatever taxes the law requires them to pay. I believe Obama when he says that he believes that the rich should - legally - pay a marginal amount more of their income in taxes. I believe that, when the law requires him to pay more taxes, that he - and I - will gladly pay whatever the law requires us to pay.

[Yurt]

so then you and obama/biden will only do what is good for the country when the government compels you....

interesting pov

[moderate democrat]

so then you and obama/biden will only do what is good for the country when the government compels you....

interesting pov

I will DO many things that I feel are good for my country. I will PAY federal income tax at the level that the government asks me to pay it... and if they RAISE that level, I, unlike you and YOUR ilk, will not bitch and moan about it.

[Yurt]

I will DO many things that I feel are good for my country. I will PAY federal income tax at the level that the government asks me to pay it... and if they RAISE that level, I, unlike you and YOUR ilk, will not bitch and moan about it.

um....i don't know about the rest of this mysterious "ilk" you speak of, but i have never been about higher taxes, so i am consistent and not hypocritical when say higher taxes are not good for this country. you apparently believe that if speak out against higher taxes i am bitching and moaning....i guess you believe some of our founding fathers who were for less taxes are also whiners....

i guess for you patriotism must be forced by the government. you feel justified in telling people we need to pay more taxes, repeal bush's tax cuts, and then use bush's tax cuts and any deduction you can to pay as little as possible. thats hypocritical. if you think we need to pay more taxes, you don't need the government telling you what to do and you don't need to be using every legal means possible to pay as little as possible.

[Silver]

what's wrong about using reductions? if they are there then use them. and if Obama talks about reducing them, then oh well. he will pay more. just look at it that he has first hand exerience of how the amount of wealth that isn't being spread around ;) it was all research so that he knew how much to lower them.

and i guess shouldn't you blame his accountant for using all of the deductions? i would find it hard to believe that either of those guys did their own.

I guess you think the accountant will go to jail for your fraudulent tax return ?

Ain't how it works sonny...

[Silver]

I expect a law abiding citizen to pay whatever taxes the law requires them to pay. I believe Obama when he says that he believes that the rich should - legally - pay a marginal amount more of their income in taxes. I believe that, when the law requires him to pay more taxes, that he - and I - will gladly pay whatever the law requires us to pay.

And thats a major difference between us....

I expect a man of integrity, a man with ethics and with moral values to do what he believes is the right thing to do.....

If you, modern democrat,(or your Messiah) don't truly believe you are paying your fair share, (which means someone else is paying some of your share)
then YOU need to stand up and do the morally right thing and kick in a little more in spite of the lawful requirements....or admit to your own hypocrisy....

[Kathianne]

Given Obama's cabinet choices - I am surprised they even paid their taxes They didn't for the most part, until they were being vetted.

However, libs rant and scream how the country can't afford those evil Bush tax cuts - but the very libs who are so opposed to them take the tax cuts and do not send the money back to the US Treasury

I laugh when liberals say you are greedy if you want tax cuts. On the contrary, the greed comes from the left which is constantly demanding more and more money from the workers who keep America moving

Yep, I'm waiting for the 'ruling class' to pony up so that the working poor don't have to. Not going to happen.

[moderate democrat]

And thats a major difference between us....

I expect a man of integrity, a man with ethics and with moral values to do what he believes is the right thing to do.....

If you, modern democrat,(or your Messiah) don't truly believe you are paying your fair share, (which means someone else is paying some of your share)
then YOU need to stand up and do the morally right thing and kick in a little more in spite of the lawful requirements....or admit to your own hypocrisy....

bullshit. one's fair share is determined by law. I abide by the law and so do you. And so does Obama. Are you suggesting that, if you believe that the law would have you pay more than your fair share, that I should expect you to do the right thing and pay less???:lol:

[Yurt]

bullshit. one's fair share is determined by law. I abide by the law and so do you. And so does Obama. Are you suggesting that, if you believe that the law would have you pay more than your fair share, that I should expect you to do the right thing and pay less???:lol:

you really believe that? the law, the law of the US is the only thing that determines "fair"....

obama did not mention law or tax code when speaking about how bush's tax cuts hurt america, he didn't speak about waiting until the tax code is changed, he spoke in the "now".....

yet, he and you, wait for the goverment to tell them what to do.... why?

[Yurt]

I guess you think the accountant will go to jail for your fraudulent tax return ?

Ain't how it works sonny...

nope, a registered cpa has to sign off on the tax return....and unless the taxpayer withheld a lie that the cpa had no way of knowing, yes, the accountant will go to jail.

[Kathianne]

bullshit. one's fair share is determined by law. I abide by the law and so do you. And so does Obama. Are you suggesting that, if you believe that the law would have you pay more than your fair share, that I should expect you to do the right thing and pay less???:lol:

Hey, I think we agree now, the least we can pay, the best. Our differences is you want everyone but you to pay more, the rest of us disagree.

[Silver]

nope, a registered cpa has to sign off on the tax return....and unless the taxpayer withheld a lie that the cpa had no way of knowing, yes, the accountant will go to jail.

Bullshit...YOU are responsible for your tax return....you look it over, you ask questions if you don't understand, you give it your OK or not OK....you sign it as being factual .....YOU are the tax payer not the guy that adds and subtracts the numbers....
we aren't talking about the tax returns of XYZ Inc. or some business entity.... we're talking about a personal tax return...
Even in the case of XYZ Inc., you'd find it mighty difficult to blame some $30 an hour CPA for a company's fraudulent taxes....

[Silver]

bullshit. one's fair share is determined by law. I abide by the law and so do you. And so does Obama. Are you suggesting that, if you believe that the law would have you pay more than your fair share, that I should expect you to do the right thing and pay less???:lol:

Bullshit from you skippy....
The law determines what you will pay, NOT what is fair....thats obvious to just about everyone but you it seems....

You WILL pay, at a minimum, what the law demands....like it or not....
but if you believe in your hypocritical, evil, liberal soul, its not enough....pay more....its your right to pay more....its not you right to pay less....

[Yurt]

Bullshit...YOU are responsible for your tax return....you look it over, you ask questions if you don't understand, you give it your OK or not OK....you sign it as being factual .....YOU are the tax payer not the guy that adds and subtracts the numbers....
we aren't talking about the tax returns of XYZ Inc. or some business entity.... we're talking about a personal tax return...
Even in the case of XYZ Inc., you'd find it mighty difficult to blame some $30 an hour CPA for a company's fraudulent taxes....

you are wrong. there is a reason CPA's have to sign off on returns....

[moderate democrat]

Bullshit from you skippy....
The law determines what you will pay, NOT what is fair....thats obvious to just about everyone but you it seems....

You WILL pay, at a minimum, what the law demands....like it or not....
but if you believe in your hypocritical, evil, liberal soul, its not enough....pay more....its your right to pay more....its not you right to pay less....

I will pay as a minimum AND a maximum just what the law demands. That is my duty as a citizen. If it is the LAW, that, by definition means that it IS enough. If I don't like the law, I'll work to change it.

the same applies to you.


Regarding my liberal soul, I tithe.

[Yurt]

I will pay as a minimum AND a maximum just what the law demands. That is my duty as a citizen. If it is the LAW, that, by definition means that it IS enough. If I don't like the law, I'll work to change it.

the same applies to you.


Regarding my liberal soul, I tithe.

that says it all.

libs can preach all they want....but they are not hypocrites because the law does not compel them.

[moderate democrat]

that says it all.

libs can preach all they want....but they are not hypocrites because the law does not compel them.

and I would never suggest that ANYONE should ever pay a nickel more than the law demands.

[Yurt]

and I would never suggest that ANYONE should ever pay a nickel more than the law demands.

obama says that the rich need to pay more and that bush tax cuts are bad for america....obama uses bush tax cuts and any and all deductions possible to pay as little as possible.

but to you that is not hypocritical because one must do only what the law requires...what hollow words then

[Kathianne]

It seems to me that many here do not believe they are paying enough in taxes. Others think they are paying too much. Seems simple enough while waiting for the increases for the former to send more than they own, perhaps with a note saying why they are doing so. That would be intellectually consistent.

[Agnapostate]

It seems to me that many here do not believe they are paying enough in taxes. Others think they are paying too much. Seems simple enough while waiting for the increases for the former to send more than they own, perhaps with a note saying why they are doing so. That would be intellectually consistent.

That doesn't seem accurate, considering the need to have a rule of consistent progressive taxation rather than mere acts of individuals from a certain bracket sending in more,

[Yurt]

It seems to me that many here do not believe they are paying enough in taxes. Others think they are paying too much. Seems simple enough while waiting for the increases for the former to send more than they own, perhaps with a note saying why they are doing so. That would be intellectually consistent.

exactly. i can't believe some preach to others about what they should do, yet, they themselves do not have to practice that until the government forces them to. moderate democrat does not live his life that way, i am pretty sure. so his position on this is hypocritical. i highly doubt when MD tells someone what they should do, that he says so knowing that his advice should not be taken unless, and only unless the government compels that person to take his advice.

[Yurt]

That doesn't seem accurate, considering the need to have a rule of consistent progressive taxation rather than mere acts of individuals from a certain bracket sending in more,

tell me, is there something in the tax code that says you MUST take every deduction, that you MUST pay as little as possible, that you MUST pay under bush's tax rate?

[Agnapostate]

tell me, is there something in the tax code that says you MUST take every deduction, that you MUST pay as little as possible, that you MUST pay under bush's tax rate?

Of course not, but you have to consider the role of appropriate negative incentive in taxation. If taxation was voluntary, after all, capitalism would collapse.

[Yurt]

Of course not, but you have to consider the role of appropriate negative incentive in taxation. If taxation was voluntary, after all, capitalism would collapse.

so one must not act on their words UNLESS the government FORCES them to

you should work out more, get in shape....but, you don't have to take my advice UNLESS the government FORCES you to...

:lame2:

[Missileman]

bullshit. one's fair share is determined by law. I abide by the law and so do you. And so does Obama. Are you suggesting that, if you believe that the law would have you pay more than your fair share, that I should expect you to do the right thing and pay less???:lol:

Sorry Charlie! One's legally required share is determined by law, the fairness of which is at the heart of the debate. It hardly seems fair that millions pay no income tax at all, yet at the same time reap all the benefits that citizenship carries with it, and in a lot of cases live a life of leisure at taxpayer's expense.

If I have a responsibility to pay taxes, I think it's entirely reasonable to expect the government to spend those dollars responsibly. They should be acting like caretakers of a precious gift, not like a teenager on a shopping binge with their daddy's credit card.

[Agnapostate]

so one must not act on their words UNLESS the government FORCES them to

you should work out more, get in shape....but, you don't have to take my advice UNLESS the government FORCES you to...

:lame2:

What are you rambling on about now?

[Yurt]

What are you rambling on about now?

i'm not surprised you don't understand....

[Agnapostate]

i'm not surprised you don't understand....

Your post isn't a reply to mine; it seems almost off-topic. I was noting the difference between an act and a rule. If a member of the upper income bracket agitated for steeper progressive taxation, his donations alone would still not be sufficient.

[moderate democrat]

obama says that the rich need to pay more and that bush tax cuts are bad for america....obama uses bush tax cuts and any and all deductions possible to pay as little as possible.

but to you that is not hypocritical because one must do only what the law requires...what hollow words then

the rich do need to pay more... and the tax code should be changed to require it... and when it is changed, I am quite certain that Obama and Biden and all law abiding Americans will pay what the law requires.

[moderate democrat]

Sorry Charlie! One's legally required share is determined by law, the fairness of which is at the heart of the debate. It hardly seems fair that millions pay no income tax at all, yet at the same time reap all the benefits that citizenship carries with it, and in a lot of cases live a life of leisure at taxpayer's expense.

If I have a responsibility to pay taxes, I think it's entirely reasonable to expect the government to spend those dollars responsibly. They should be acting like caretakers of a precious gift, not like a teenager on a shopping binge with their daddy's credit card.

you and I both have a responsibility to pay all the taxes that the government requires us to pay. The argument about what is "fair" is one that has been ongoing since the very dawn of income taxes, and one that will continue. The top marginal tax rate has fluctuated drastically over the century we have had a federal income tax, and I am quite certain it will continue to fluctuate over the next century moving up and down in response to the same sorts of arguments and political pressures that have moved it thus far.

And again... for those who think that liberals who would like to see as higher marginal tax rate for the wealthy should somehow walk the walk by voluntarily writing checks of indeterminate extra value to the federal government, I would merely point out that., for many of us, tithing takes care of that marginal variance.

[Yurt]

Your post isn't a reply to mine; it seems almost off-topic. I was noting the difference between an act and a rule. If a member of the upper income bracket agitated for steeper progressive taxation, his donations alone would still not be sufficient.

how so....how was my post off topic? how did i not reply to you?

[Yurt]

the rich do need to pay more... and the tax code should be changed to require it... and when it is changed, I am quite certain that Obama and Biden and all law abiding Americans will pay what the law requires.

there it is folks......the dems can preach about this and that...it matters not until the government FORCES you to act on that preaching....

the rich need to pay more....but...not until the government FORCES the rich to. the dems have no morals, until the government FORCES them to.....

so anytime a dem tells you what you should do....ignore them, until the government FORCES you to take their "advice"

[moderate democrat]

there it is folks......the dems can preach about this and that...it matters not until the government FORCES you to act on that preaching....

the rich need to pay more....but...not until the government FORCES the rich to. the dems have no morals, until the government FORCES them to.....

so anytime a dem tells you what you should do....ignore them, until the government FORCES you to take their "advice"

silly

are you suggesting that conservatives or anyone would voluntarily pay income tax if it were not required by law?

and I know of no democrat who tells anyone what to do and demands complaince. I am perfectly happy with you ignoring anything that I, as an individual, suggest you should do. If I, as a member of a political group holding a particular philosophy, am able to gain the majority and pass laws mandating behavior, then you and I would both be required to abide by them, and if you don't LIKE those laws, you should try to regain the majority and take steps to abolish them, or move somewhere else.

Regarding my fiscal "morality", as I said, I tithe.

[Jeff]

silly

are you suggesting that conservatives or anyone would voluntarily pay income tax if it were not required by law?

and I know of no democrat who tells anyone what to do and demands complaince. I am perfectly happy with you ignoring anything that I, as an individual, suggest you should do. If I, as a member of a political group holding a particular philosophy, am able to gain the majority and pass laws mandating behavior, then you and I would both be required to abide by them, and if you don't LIKE those laws, you should try to regain the majority and take steps to abolish them, or move somewhere else.

Regarding my fiscal "morality", as I said, I tithe.

By the time Obama is done will there be anything left to regain Virgil?

And yes him paying the least amount of taxes he can goes along the lines of telling the American people to tighten there belts but then he will dine on $100 steaks.He could of shown true leadership by paying his taxes the way he preaches and then making that public for all to see.

Kind of like running his presidency down the middle of the isle , and then once in office telling the republicans I won get over it, see Virgil he is a liar, allot like you.You know Virgil the old do as I say not as I do.:poke:

[red states rule]

I will pay as a minimum AND a maximum just what the law demands. That is my duty as a citizen. If it is the LAW, that, by definition means that it IS enough. If I don't like the law, I'll work to change it.

the same applies to you.


Regarding my liberal soul, I tithe.

My this post also looks familiar


Originally Posted by manfrommaine
I am perfectly willing to pay a bit more in federal income taxes for the good of my country. This country educated me. This country employed me for a quarter of a century. THis country pays me a retirement income today.

I think it it really pathetic and sad that you would not feel the same way.

[moderate democrat]

By the time Obama is done will there be anything left to regain Virgil?

And yes him paying the least amount of taxes he can goes along the lines of telling the American people to tighten there belts but then he will dine on $100 steaks.He could of shown true leadership by paying his taxes the way he preaches and then making that public for all to see.

Kind of like running his presidency down the middle of the isle , and then once in office telling the republicans I won get over it, see Virgil he is a liar, allot like you.You know Virgil the old do as I say not as I do.:poke:

He did show leadership by paying every penny that the law requires him to pay and not one penny more. And if he choses to spend his salary on expensive beef, who am I to complain?

[Mr. P]

He did show leadership by paying every penny that the law requires him to pay and not one penny more. And if he choses to spend his salary on expensive beef, who am I to complain?

Leadership? :laugh2: NO, he showed compliance. To bad those he chooses for staff positions can't do the same, huh?

[red states rule]

He did show leadership by paying every penny that the law requires him to pay and not one penny more. And if he choses to spend his salary on expensive beef, who am I to complain?

Looks like Obama is going to break one of his main talking points he used daily in the campaign. Looks like people like me who knew Obama could not pull the needed money to pay for his trillions of new spending out of thin air - and said he would raise taxes on nearly all workers - were correct

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=22502

Libs complain all the time how WE spend our money. Looks at how the left treats people who decide to buy SUV's - or other large cars/trucks. Or buy cigarettes

We are told government can spend our more more efficently and on more worthwhile things then we can

Seems if you are a liberal you get a pass from your fellow libs

[moderate democrat]

Looks like Obama is going to break one of his main talking points he used daily in the campaign. Looks like people like me who knew Obama could not pull the needed money to pay for his trillions of new spending out of thin air - and said he would raise taxes on nearly all workers - were correct

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showthread.php?t=22502

Libs complain all the time how WE spend our money. Looks at how the left treats people who decide to buy SUV's - or other large cars/trucks. Or buy cigarettes

We are told government can spend our more more efficently and on more worthwhile things then we can

Seems if you are a liberal you get a pass from your fellow libs

I have zero complaints about anyone buying anything with their own money. I just have no problems with the government applying "sin" taxes to goods and services that are harmful to the environment or the economy. Hey... I think you should go smoke all the cigarettes you want to RSR... go with the non-filters...they are much tastier.

[red states rule]

I have zero complaints about anyone buying anything with their own money. I just have no problems with the government applying "sin" taxes to goods and services that are harmful to the environment or the economy. Hey... I think you should go smoke all the cigarettes you want to RSR... go with the non-filters...they are much tastier.

So who is the judge as to what is harmful to the economy or the enviroment?

The actual tax increases per family Obama and the Dems will impose, will be the least of our worries before it's all said and done. The increased costs of goods and services, most particularly of energy, will have us all paying these same tax increases again, and again, and again, and again

Obama will dounle the national debt yet his supporters ignore that fact

[moderate democrat]

So who is the judge as to what is harmful to the economy or the enviroment?



the political process makes and remakes those sorts of decisions all the time.

If you don't like the way that the current administration and majority party are making those decisions now, I would suggest that you try running some candidates who can win elections.


until then....whine on!:lol:

[red states rule]

the political process makes and remakes those sorts of decisions all the time.

If you don't like the way that the current administration and majority party are making those decisions now, I would suggest that you try running some candidates who can win elections.


until then....whine on!:lol:

So in a nutshell you are saying, libs are in charge and what they so goes. We should say nothing in dissent?

Please comment on the rest of my post - or are you ignoring it?

The actual tax increases per family Obama and the Dems will impose, will be the least of our worries before it's all said and done. The increased costs of goods and services, most particularly of energy, will have us all paying these same tax increases again, and again, and again, and again

Obama will dounle the national debt yet his supporters ignore that fact

[Mr. P]

I have zero complaints about anyone buying anything with their own money. I just have no problems with the government applying "sin" taxes to goods and services that are harmful to the environment or the economy. Hey... I think you should go smoke all the cigarettes you want to RSR... go with the non-filters...they are much tastier.

Yer a low life son of a bitch, Virgil!

Anyone who doesn't understand the bolded or my comment are free to PM me for an explanation.

[red states rule]

Yer a low life son of a bitch, Virgil!

Anyone who doesn't understand the bolded or my comment are free to PM me for an explanation.

I got it very clearly MR P. It is not the first time Virgil expressed his "god wishes" toward me - and it will not be the last

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=137476&postcount=38

I am use to it by now, and can expect nothing less from the "preacher" from Maine

[Agnapostate]

how so....how was my post off topic? how did i not reply to you?

You've not seen how advocacy of a specific policy isn't necessarily related to one's own participation when the latter would make no functional difference.

[emmett]

Yer a low life son of a bitch, Virgil!

Anyone who doesn't understand the bolded or my comment are free to PM me for an explanation.

You know what, I guess since I'm on right now I am suppose to delete this post. I even PM'd P and told him that I was but I just couldn't hit the button. I just remember that damn post made one evening about pissing on graves and i guess i just don't want to play this silly game anymore with MD. As far as I'm concerned he had it coming. Some other mod wants to delete it that's fine. Don't forget this one while your at it. Md.....your an asshole!

[Jeff]

You know what, I guess since I'm on right now I am suppose to delete this post. I even PM'd P and told him that I was but I just couldn't hit the button. I just remember that damn post made one evening about pissing on graves and i guess i just don't want to play this silly game anymore with MD. As far as I'm concerned he had it coming. Some other mod wants to delete it that's fine. Don't forget this one while your at it. Md.....your an asshole!

emmett he deserves a lot more than just a pissy post for the comment he made, Yes Mr. P I understand And Virgil is one piece of trash to make a comment like that, and he is a preacher, I wonder if maybe he doesn't preach with Obama's preacher that says white people are devils,and GD the United States, just as UN religious , Virgil you are a Asshole with a capitol A

[glockmail]

Yer a low life son of a bitch, Virgil!

Anyone who doesn't understand the bolded or my comment are free to PM me for an explanation. The Posse knows.

[glockmail]

...I think you should go smoke all the cigarettes you want to RSR... go with the non-filters...they are much tastier.For anyone with an IQ less than 50 or new to the board, this is Virgil's way of reminding Red how he once wished him death by cancer.

Some points cut from you Virgil as soon as I can.

[Jeff]

For anyone with an IQ less than 50 or new to the board, this is Virgil's way of reminding Red how he once wished him death by cancer.

Some points cut from you Virgil as soon as I can.

A preacher my ass, ever time I see this it makes me sick, a man of God wishing someone dead,that Virgil is a real man!!