Fastest Growing Company in the World!!!

[emmett]

Anyone watching TV, listening to the radio or camping out under a rock knows the fastest growing company in the world is the US Government. How many companies can boast the acquisition of one trillion in assets of private companies in less than 50 days? It's incredible!

GM (Government Motors) Subsidary Companies - ChevyMay and DodgieMack
AIG (America Insured by Government)
BOA (Bailing Out of America) aka (Bilking Out of Americans)
CITI (Citizens In Tight Instances, Inc.)


I keep hearing how whiny ass Economic Conservatives and especially howling cry baby Libertarians are fussing up a storm about these latest ventures. Wake up! This obviously brilliant corporate strategy on the part of the Obama Administration to overkill the "bail out" has some positive sides to it. Think about it. Soon there will be only One Company in the country. The United States Government, Inc,...

What other corporation has the ability to do so well. In illegally using taxpayer (stockholder) dollars with no input what so ever from these people they are able to completely control the competitive enviornment and force any company who doesn't come crawling on it's knees to Government, out of business. Just look at what is happening! It is an absolutely brilliant strategy.

How many companies have the ability to force investment at the point of a gun? How many companies can establish Federal law that is condicive with these underhanded practices of destroying free market enterprise. How many companies can make it law that if you buy a product from their company they can give you a tax break and if you don't pay any taxes raise your refund.......I mean "entitlement". Wake up America!!!! How many companies are so concerned with your "welfare" that they will, whether you choose to or not, assist you in becoming a part of this wonderful project of overseeing the "common good" and looking after your best interests. The US Government can even fire any CEO they choose so imagine what ramifications that could have along the lines of creating a competitive marketplace!!!

What I can't figure out is how the Government can't seem to rid itself of that pesky ass Fox News! Hey...I know....BUY EM! This would complete the make up of the US Government News Agency which could bring you accurate, precise and unbiased news about the newly formed company that is fair and balanced and about the way the US Government Corporation, founded 2009, copyright Barack Hussein Obama, edited by Hillary Clinton and produced by Nancy Friggin Pelosi, has made the business world such an easier place to navigate for investors. Sort of "full service" if you may!

In addition what the hell do we need a stinking stock market for anyway. What a waste of beautiful high dollar commercial real estate that could be annexed to be the new United Nations building.

Folks.... if you don't see Socialism staring you right down the snout, you are one dumb apple. It ain't coming anymore...IT IS HERE and YOU are it's biggest equal share contributor! The only aspect of this Corporation that is different is that the stockholders of this new company are outnumbered by the voting members who own no stock what so ever yet recieve the biggest % of benefit.

Now of course you know where I am going. Yes....I am! If a Libertarian administration was in charge, could anything like this have happened? Now don't start with your hooing and hawing about how they aren't big enough, BIG isn't necessarily better when representing the interests of the people. Just answewr the question YES or NO!

I'll repeat it.

Could the current state of the American economy have taken place under a Libertarian administration?

Who dares stick their head out from under their binky and answer the question?

[5stringJeff]

If a Libertarian administration was in charge, could anything like this have happened? Now don't start with your hooing and hawing about how they aren't big enough, BIG isn't necessarily better when representing the interests of the people. Just answewr the question YES or NO!

I'll repeat it.

Could the current state of the American economy have taken place under a Libertarian administration?

Who dares stick their head out from under their binky and answer the question?

No. A libertarian would have allowed the bankruptcy courts to do what they do, and in the meantime, would have slashed government spending, allowing us, as a nation, to begin paying down the massive debt we are going to hand off to our children.

[Joe Steel]

Could the current state of the American economy have taken place under a Libertarian administration?

Could it?

Libertarians are nothing more than Republicans who use dope. The more pertinent question would be, could a Libertarian administration have created anything but an economic disaster.

[actsnoblemartin]

that is an unfair and untrue statement. Have you actually ever read or asked what libertarians stand for or must you slander anyone who isn't a democrat?



Could it?

Libertarians are nothing more than Republicans who use dope. The more pertinent question would be, could a Libertarian administration have created anything but an economic disaster.

[crin63]

If Libertarians are ever going to accomplish anything and I hope they do, they better quit focusing on the presidency and start focusing on picking off some congressional seats first. They need to find 6-10 vulnerable congressional seats and focus all their resources on those seats.

[emmett]

If Libertarians are ever going to accomplish anything and I hope they do, they better quit focusing on the presidency and start focusing on picking off some congressional seats first. They need to find 6-10 vulnerable congressional seats and focus all their resources on those seats.

My good friend Crin becomes the first Conservative to get scolded! :laugh2:

OK my brother.... I asked you a question! It requires an imagination obviously. Notice that only a Libertarian so far has been able to answer straight up! 5strJeff. Libertarians know the answer because of their unwavering comittment TO the answer.

Question requires one to believe or pretend rather that a Libertarian Administration is in "charge". I don't like the word power because Libertarians would spend an entire administration trying to figure out how to rid themselves of power....not gain it! I like the term being in charge.

Now...to address the post you DID make. Crin, we know the strategy! We would also like for you to be one of those people my friend. Seriously, I understand that it is difficult to fathom a Libertarian President. We know we don't start at the top. Libertarians have targeted local, community, county and state level offices to run for as well as governorships and President. In Georgia we have a man who shows well for US Senate seat every four. We're getting there. The problem is Crin.....guys like you, fine men, who know the score, know the issues and feel the passion keep "wasting" their votes on other parties instead of voting theior conscience.

It's hard man. Real hard at times! Ya walk in that booth and struggle with yourself. I know you have! I've been there brother! You think...damn! I don't want that liberal to get elected, he goes against everything I'm founded in. I want to vote Libertarian cause that is how I really feel but if I vote with the GOP I can at least hold on to the possibility of a compromised sense of what I want for my family. People don't take the responsibility serious enough. It is tough. I hope to God you and I do see the day my friend when a Libertarian takes the oath of office to serve as a US Congressman or Senator. I trust at that time we will think of this little chat box we used to belong to and how wonderful it was to have inspired us to fight for what we believe. You can tell your kids, "I knew this guy one time, on line mind you, he literally spent hours and hours trying to convince us Republicans to vote Libertarian. He was a funny looking old coot. Old long haired looking freaky thing but you know...today..I gotta hand it to him, he was right. HEY HONEY!!!! COME IN HERE>>......HURRY! HE/SHE IS ABOUT TO DO IT! LOOK!!! WHOA>>COOL! We are fixing to swear in a Libertarian senator baby...look! Man...I got cold chills!


Dramazation courtesy of the imagination of El Debator! Copyright 2009 :laugh2:

Now...the question is....... Under a Libertarian Administration would this financial disaster have just happened? YES or NO!

[emmett]

Could it?

Libertarians are nothing more than Republicans who use dope. The more pertinent question would be, could a Libertarian administration have created anything but an economic disaster.


Joe....listen to me sport. The answer is NO....it could not happen. It isn't possible based on the way that Libertarians would run government.

As to your remark.... I am a Libertarian and I do NOT do dope. I don't even take aspirin. I'm an extremely green person. I recycle everything I touch. I do not smoke pot, I do not drink beer, wine or liquor. I've given more money to Feed the Children than you will earn this year. I've paid more money in taxes in my life than you will earn in paychecks in yours. I believe in God! I did my four years in the Navy. I have spent more time doing volunteer work than you have working on your full time job. I have averaged working over 100 hours a week for over 27 straight years. I've been to every city in the united states over 5,000 in pop. and rode out every single mile of every United States highway and Interstate in America. I once worked 430 days without a day off. I raised two children on my own in the meantime and cooked every single meal they ever ate. I love my country, I own and will keep my guns, I am smarter than you, better looking than you, tougher than you and more American than you. I've paid dues in this world that you wouldn't begin to understand...boy! Now shut your mouth, go to bed and get up and go to work tomorrow without addressing another of my threads please. I'm tired of you son....you bother me and I have not the patients for it now. Now piss off !

[crin63]

My good friend Crin becomes the first Conservative to get scolded! :laugh2:

OK my brother.... I asked you a question! It requires an imagination obviously. Notice that only a Libertarian so far has been able to answer straight up! 5strJeff. Libertarians know the answer because of their unwavering comittment TO the answer.

Question requires one to believe or pretend rather that a Libertarian Administration is in "charge". I don't like the word power because Libertarians would spend an entire administration trying to figure out how to rid themselves of power....not gain it! I like the term being in charge.

Now...to address the post you DID make. Crin, we know the strategy! We would also like for you to be one of those people my friend. Seriously, I understand that it is difficult to fathom a Libertarian President. We know we don't start at the top. Libertarians have targeted local, community, county and state level offices to run for as well as governorships and President. In Georgia we have a man who shows well for US Senate seat every four. We're getting there. The problem is Crin.....guys like you, fine men, who know the score, know the issues and feel the passion keep "wasting" their votes on other parties instead of voting theior conscience.

It's hard man. Real hard at times! Ya walk in that booth and struggle with yourself. I know you have! I've been there brother! You think...damn! I don't want that liberal to get elected, he goes against everything I'm founded in. I want to vote Libertarian cause that is how I really feel but if I vote with the GOP I can at least hold on to the possibility of a compromised sense of what I want for my family. People don't take the responsibility serious enough. It is tough. I hope to God you and I do see the day my friend when a Libertarian takes the oath of office to serve as a US Congressman or Senator. I trust at that time we will think of this little chat box we used to belong to and how wonderful it was to have inspired us to fight for what we believe. You can tell your kids, "I knew this guy one time, on line mind you, he literally spent hours and hours trying to convince us Republicans to vote Libertarian. He was a funny looking old coot. Old long haired looking freaky thing but you know...today..I gotta hand it to him, he was right. HEY HONEY!!!! COME IN HERE>>......HURRY! HE/SHE IS ABOUT TO DO IT! LOOK!!! WHOA>>COOL! We are fixing to swear in a Libertarian senator baby...look! Man...I got cold chills!


Dramazation courtesy of the imagination of El Debator! Copyright 2009 :laugh2:

Now...the question is....... Under a Libertarian Administration would this financial disaster have just happened? YES or NO!

Emmett, I'll take the scolding, I deserved it. Slap me upside the head any time I need it my friend.

No, I don't believe a Libertarian administration would have allowed this current economic chaos if there was anything they could have done to prevent it. I also don't believe an actual Conservative would have either but then we haven't seen one those in many years, decades actually.

I'm more Libertarian than Republican. If Libertarians would take a pro-life stand instead of hands off stand so to speak there would be allot more Republican defectors. I understand the Libertarian position on it but that's the primary sticking point for me.

I looked very seriously at the Constitution party until I found out they weren't even represented in all states and they picked Baldwin instead of Moore as their candidate.

[5stringJeff]

If Libertarians are ever going to accomplish anything and I hope they do, they better quit focusing on the presidency and start focusing on picking off some congressional seats first. They need to find 6-10 vulnerable congressional seats and focus all their resources on those seats.

Unfortunately, baloot access laws, passed by the Dems and GOP, make it very hard for Libertarians to get on the ballot in the first place. In GA, which is one of the worst states, it takes the signatures of 5% of a constituency just to get your name on the ballot if you aren't a "major party." That's almost impossible - which is why there are so few Libertarians on the ballot.

However, I think the differentiation between the L's and the R's on fiscal responsibility and the size of government will begin to play itself out over the next four years.

[crin63]

Unfortunately, baloot access laws, passed by the Dems and GOP, make it very hard for Libertarians to get on the ballot in the first place. In GA, which is one of the worst states, it takes the signatures of 5% of a constituency just to get your name on the ballot if you aren't a "major party." That's almost impossible - which is why there are so few Libertarians on the ballot.

However, I think the differentiation between the L's and the R's on fiscal responsibility and the size of government will begin to play itself out over the next four years.

I really hope Libertarians are successful. I think as a country we need them. I just have a couple sticking points that keeps me from making the jump.

I have the utmost respect for you and Emmett for standing fast to your convictions without waffling.

[5stringJeff]

I really hope Libertarians are successful. I think as a country we need them. I just have a couple sticking points that keeps me from making the jump.

I have the utmost respect for you and Emmett for standing fast to your convictions without waffling.

I understand your hesitation. The pro-abortion plank in the LP's platform troubles me. But, there are Libertarians for Life (http://www.l4l.org/) who oppose abortion.

I just don't feel that attempting to change the GOP into an actual small-government party is a winning effort.

[Kathianne]

I understand your hesitation. The pro-abortion plank in the LP's platform troubles me. But, there are Libertarians for Life (http://www.l4l.org/) who oppose abortion.

I just don't feel that attempting to change the GOP into an actual small-government party is a winning effort.

Jeff, I understand all your positions. How long have we known each other politically? Most of the time pretty simpatico. What's always kept me from the Libertarian Party has been the fringe of that very small party. I think you understood my point earlier; it would be as if the extreme right wing, small as it is, was as vocal as it's been in a vastly smaller party-it amps their message.
I would not want the 'survivalists' or 'bomb abortion clinics' being those trying to get the 'conservative message out.'

I don't think Emmett knew me at the beginning of the 2004 election. There was only one way I knew so much about Ron Paul's supporters and his accepting their support, I was researching him before he gained momentum. Not because I wanted to 'harm him', rather because I was looking for alternatives. It's still the case, which is why I realized the potential of the tea party movement from the get go.

Both major parties are alike in power. I think the time may be right for a third or new second party, but it has to have the real 'change we are looking for' backed with the philosophy underlining that 'change'. All movements will have a fringe, I think the definition mandates it. However, if it appears that hate groups are behind it, especially where the funding is coming from, no thanks.

[emmett]

Crin... I am absolutely Anti-Abortion. I don't support it in ANY case!
Additionally I am fairly Anti-Homo as well. Don't even like to be around frankly.
I do not take any drugs of any type yet I am Anti War on Drugs.


These things said one may ask "How could you be a Libertarian then?"

Kathy is most correct in her statement about small party politics. In a sense that is. There are many people who claim to be more Libertarian than Republican. There are also many Social based Libertarians. Most are Gays I think. If the country had say....50% of the population that was Libertarian one could sift through them and find some pretty scary folks I'm sure. That wouldn't mean the "fringes" represented the central message.

The main theme of the Libertarian Party resonates well with allot of people. Liberty. Choosing ones own path, personal responsibility for one's own decisions, family and life with out infringement by a government that makes more rules than someone can keep up with. Problem is... people want government!

To me, abortion is not a government issue. Neither is homosexuality, the War on Drugs or even Education. Certainly not Welfare, Health Care or making government a tool to collect tax from a selected section of people. Ironic as it sounds I don't think government should be involved in any of that. At least not the federal government! I think the job of the federal government should be to enforce staying the hell out of these issues and let states and counties and comuunities govern themselves.

Many folks, bless their heart, as well intended as they are say, "At heart, I feel like a Libertarian but they can't win elections and we need change that happens now!" Well, you're getting lots of change friend, just look at four years ago, or eight, twelve, sixteen etc,....So instead they go back to the polls and vote for a party that is already riding an out of control snowball that bolls over our rights, taxes us to death and infringes on our liberty more and more every day. Look, sooner or later one has to face that the GOP is losing ground. The Democratic party is becoming Socialist. Constitution Party folks are unrealistical in my opinion.

Personally, I'm a compassionate person. I don't want anyone to hurt. I understand the basic concept of most Democrat's position of Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid and so forth. I just don't feel like a person just based on the fact that they live here or were even born here "entitles" them to anything other than Liberty and Freedom. The chance to do with their lives anything they choose, as they choose. A person can provide any of the advantages of the above for themselves so long as they are responsible, left alone and motivated. There was no "Bill of Entitlements".

I hear the question, "What about a handicapped person?" My answer is family! What ever happened to loving families who cared for one another no matter what. I'll tell you. Government ruined them! We ourselves, by electing the people we did, destoyed our families. Government has become toomany people's families. If a young women knew she had no chance what so ever of any assistance at all, I assure you illegitimate births would decrease.

Would there be no welfare at all under a Libertarian way of government? Obviously not! There would be some but government would not be in the entitlement business. How would people be protected against life altering accidents and so forth? Insurance and wise investment in the multifold private sector economy that would exist under a Libertarian way of life. It would just be about who managed these funds, a government with huge power to suck votes out of people or private citizens and companies hired for that purpose and only paid when it was successful.

Our entire country's economic system is structured for failure. As soon as government controlled the first aspect of our private lives, the rest was simply a ticking time bomb. It's simple really. People just don't get it. Well intended mind you, such as yourself, Kathy and most everybody else. We want government to be this but complain when they are that. What the hell do you expect. Give government any power and it will grow to have all the power. Simply look back in history. The US has been here only a fraction of a fraction of time yet in only 243 years we have went from what it was to what it is! Just think about that for a minute and then go ahead and tell yourself that the next time you go in and vote for a Republican it will get better. I'm sorry my friend...but that is shallow minded foolishness!

We all, Democrat and Republican, Liberal and conservative want government to be what it "should" be, but only to us. Each wants their version of it. Libertarians simply believe it should be very very small and guarentee almost nothing other than a collective self defense, infrastructure and basic rule of law, which would be to oversee disputes between states over how to write their own.

So...yes as a Libertarian I believe that if every citizen in san Francisco wants to homo around, live that sickening lifestyle and even worse, so be it. I would even fight for their right to do that. I would never go there. I would never buy a product they made, or send them money if they were hurting. See my point? Eventually, folks would figure out that living in Homoville was not healthy, properous or encouraged anymore and it would evolve into something else (or) it would fail (or) it would become a properous area of Homo's only which would be the way it would work but it would decide it own fate.

If a state decided it wanted to become a welfare haven and loosen it's regs on it and start providing Social Services out the ass like a california or a New York...fine! I would be interested to see how they could do that without having the ability to tax the other states and keep it up. Eventually...it would stop.

I just don't see how folks don't get it personally but let's just go to some tea parties and scream and bitch a little more. Our government will listen. Right? Please!

[Kathianne]

Emmett, I agree that all movements have a fringe, as I said, by definition. However, when that 'fringe' appears well organized and accepted by the leadership of a small group, the group becomes defined by it. While the number of 'haters' in the Libertarian Party would be infinitesimal in whole numbers to those of the D or R parties, the percentage of the total much larger and because of the organization more defining.

That is what led me against affiliation with LP. It appears they cloak the party with libertarian message, but the cloak covers the extreme right and left wing agendas.

[5stringJeff]

Jeff, I understand all your positions. How long have we known each other politically? Most of the time pretty simpatico. What's always kept me from the Libertarian Party has been the fringe of that very small party. I think you understood my point earlier; it would be as if the extreme right wing, small as it is, was as vocal as it's been in a vastly smaller party-it amps their message.
I would not want the 'survivalists' or 'bomb abortion clinics' being those trying to get the 'conservative message out.'

I don't think Emmett knew me at the beginning of the 2004 election. There was only one way I knew so much about Ron Paul's supporters and his accepting their support, I was researching him before he gained momentum. Not because I wanted to 'harm him', rather because I was looking for alternatives. It's still the case, which is why I realized the potential of the tea party movement from the get go.

Both major parties are alike in power. I think the time may be right for a third or new second party, but it has to have the real 'change we are looking for' backed with the philosophy underlining that 'change'. All movements will have a fringe, I think the definition mandates it. However, if it appears that hate groups are behind it, especially where the funding is coming from, no thanks.

I don't disagree with anything you've said except the part about hate groups funding the LP. Yes, Ron Paul accepted money he knew was from the KKK (or some group like that). That doesn't mean all Libertarians are being funded by white supremacists.

[Kathianne]

I don't disagree with anything you've said except the part about hate groups funding the LP. Yes, Ron Paul accepted money he knew was from the KKK (or some group like that). That doesn't mean all Libertarians are being funded by white supremacists.

Nor did I say so. Problem comes in the preponderance of the support. I'm hearing you and probably willing to get on board with someone you'd support. It wouldn't be Ron Paul, I'd hope someone I could back.

It may well be that Ron Paul felt he had to court the fringe, just not tenable for national election. I'd like to see quality candidates locally and statewide. AFTERWARDS dealing with national. 2010 is the best opportunity, especially if built upon the tea parties. Just saying.

[crin63]

Crin... I am absolutely Anti-Abortion. I don't support it in ANY case!
Additionally I am fairly Anti-Homo as well. Don't even like to be around frankly.
I do not take any drugs of any type yet I am Anti War on Drugs.


These things said one may ask "How could you be a Libertarian then?"

Kathy is most correct in her statement about small party politics. In a sense that is. There are many people who claim to be more Libertarian than Republican. There are also many Social based Libertarians. Most are Gays I think. If the country had say....50% of the population that was Libertarian one could sift through them and find some pretty scary folks I'm sure. That wouldn't mean the "fringes" represented the central message.

The main theme of the Libertarian Party resonates well with allot of people. Liberty. Choosing ones own path, personal responsibility for one's own decisions, family and life with out infringement by a government that makes more rules than someone can keep up with. Problem is... people want government!

To me, abortion is not a government issue. Neither is homosexuality, the War on Drugs or even Education. Certainly not Welfare, Health Care or making government a tool to collect tax from a selected section of people. Ironic as it sounds I don't think government should be involved in any of that. At least not the federal government! I think the job of the federal government should be to enforce staying the hell out of these issues and let states and counties and comuunities govern themselves.

Many folks, bless their heart, as well intended as they are say, "At heart, I feel like a Libertarian but they can't win elections and we need change that happens now!" Well, you're getting lots of change friend, just look at four years ago, or eight, twelve, sixteen etc,....So instead they go back to the polls and vote for a party that is already riding an out of control snowball that bolls over our rights, taxes us to death and infringes on our liberty more and more every day. Look, sooner or later one has to face that the GOP is losing ground. The Democratic party is becoming Socialist. Constitution Party folks are unrealistical in my opinion.

Personally, I'm a compassionate person. I don't want anyone to hurt. I understand the basic concept of most Democrat's position of Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid and so forth. I just don't feel like a person just based on the fact that they live here or were even born here "entitles" them to anything other than Liberty and Freedom. The chance to do with their lives anything they choose, as they choose. A person can provide any of the advantages of the above for themselves so long as they are responsible, left alone and motivated. There was no "Bill of Entitlements".

I hear the question, "What about a handicapped person?" My answer is family! What ever happened to loving families who cared for one another no matter what. I'll tell you. Government ruined them! We ourselves, by electing the people we did, destoyed our families. Government has become toomany people's families. If a young women knew she had no chance what so ever of any assistance at all, I assure you illegitimate births would decrease.

Would there be no welfare at all under a Libertarian way of government? Obviously not! There would be some but government would not be in the entitlement business. How would people be protected against life altering accidents and so forth? Insurance and wise investment in the multifold private sector economy that would exist under a Libertarian way of life. It would just be about who managed these funds, a government with huge power to suck votes out of people or private citizens and companies hired for that purpose and only paid when it was successful.

Our entire country's economic system is structured for failure. As soon as government controlled the first aspect of our private lives, the rest was simply a ticking time bomb. It's simple really. People just don't get it. Well intended mind you, such as yourself, Kathy and most everybody else. We want government to be this but complain when they are that. What the hell do you expect. Give government any power and it will grow to have all the power. Simply look back in history. The US has been here only a fraction of a fraction of time yet in only 243 years we have went from what it was to what it is! Just think about that for a minute and then go ahead and tell yourself that the next time you go in and vote for a Republican it will get better. I'm sorry my friend...but that is shallow minded foolishness!

We all, Democrat and Republican, Liberal and conservative want government to be what it "should" be, but only to us. Each wants their version of it. Libertarians simply believe it should be very very small and guarentee almost nothing other than a collective self defense, infrastructure and basic rule of law, which would be to oversee disputes between states over how to write their own.

So...yes as a Libertarian I believe that if every citizen in san Francisco wants to homo around, live that sickening lifestyle and even worse, so be it. I would even fight for their right to do that. I would never go there. I would never buy a product they made, or send them money if they were hurting. See my point? Eventually, folks would figure out that living in Homoville was not healthy, properous or encouraged anymore and it would evolve into something else (or) it would fail (or) it would become a properous area of Homo's only which would be the way it would work but it would decide it own fate.

If a state decided it wanted to become a welfare haven and loosen it's regs on it and start providing Social Services out the ass like a california or a New York...fine! I would be interested to see how they could do that without having the ability to tax the other states and keep it up. Eventually...it would stop.

I just don't see how folks don't get it personally but let's just go to some tea parties and scream and bitch a little more. Our government will listen. Right? Please!

Emmett, I mostly agree with you except that the primary function of our government is to protect our lives. There is no greater attack against the lives of Americans than abortion.

I cant/wont accept that homosexuals should be free to live as they want because the only way they reproduce is by recruiting; by going after our young and vulnerable. By manipulating and twisting their minds as well as emotions to accept their debauchery.

I'm almost to the point of saying that we should just legalize drugs.

[Kathianne]

Emmett, I mostly agree with you except that the primary function of our government is to protect our lives. There is no greater attack against the lives of Americans than abortion.

I cant/wont accept that homosexuals should be free to live as they want because the only way they reproduce is by recruiting; by going after our young and vulnerable. By manipulating and twisting their minds as well as emotions to accept their debauchery.

I'm almost to the point of saying that we should just legalize drugs.

Cringe, I hear you and recognize you don't agree with me. Truth is, so far you represent more the LIBERTARIAN Party more than I do, that is the problem.

[emmett]

So wise is the school teacher from Chicago! Kathy....your belief that the LP is defined by the media makers of the party is .....(no comment). I'll use misinformed for lack of a better qualified word. I come from the core of the LP where meet up groups of 11 people (hypothetical) well accurate sometimes, meet and pow wow. These folks are not radicals, they express their concerns much like you JUST did. As do I. I don't want the message that assimilates with true Liberty to be mistaken, beleive me! I worry about this all the time.

I guess I am saying that one has to "keep their eyes on the prize." It is the fundamental message of the Libertarian Party that I embrace. I know there are fringers, I'd be a fool to say otherwise but they exist in the big parties at a much greater rate.

The biggest difference between a true Libertarian and anyone else is comittment. I accept that there will be those who will use the message to promote an agenda. A Libertarian accepts each person's right to express ANY opinion they have. "Freedom of speech". If it involved breaking the law or restricting someone from experiencing the same Liberty guarenteed all, I would not suppport them.

Example: The radical Militant groups of NW US who claim to be Libertarians. OK Fine! To me, they have the right to do and say whatever they want so long as their actions don't physically prevent me or another American from experiencing our Liberty. To me, they represent a much lesser threat than the powerful US government who has already displayed a definite interest in restricting my liberty. That radical group hasn't effected me one little bit. That is all I am saying.

In addition, and please do not take this wrong! If people like you and other logical, leagal minded, law abiding, liberty loving citizens would be, (in my opinion) brave enough to stand up and say what you really are, each time a person who is really a Libertarian in their heart does this, the average Libertarian moves closer to reality. Why is it so hard for everyone to understand this? The Libertarian Party needs wise, logical thinking individuals, the ones who say, "to myself, I seem to be a Libertarian but I just can't line myself with some of the radical groups who claim to be so".

Please understand that this is the angle I come from. I AM a conservative Republican. A real one! A genuine, down home, conservative, small government, anti-Socialist freedom loving ......Republican! The problem is....the so called Republican Party isn't a Republic based message anymore and you and every American on earth knows this. (Don't mean to be putting words in your mouth....been there...been scolded...understand). I fought the same demons I hear you echo every day for years!

I like many "True Libertarians" only wish to acheive one goal and that goal is the almost identical message to Barry Goldwater's Republican one. The difference is, I am not willing to compromise like the Republican Party did. Now...tell me the Republican Party did not compromise their core agenda since that era and I will tear my LP card in absolute half and mail it to you.

I know there are those who use our platform to further their agenda. Fine! As long as they send their money and go and vote.....Fine! They won't get their radical ways. Those things aren't unacheivable nor desireable to any logical thinking human being! We aren't gong to get rid of black people, kill homosexuals or any of that other junk they preach. Their numbers are small, their claim is bogus and their purpose is unfounded! A true Libertarian is only concerned with the main agenda......freedom of choice, absolute liberty, small government and personal responsibility for ones own actions and family.

True Libertarians represent allot more of the party numbers than people think. It's just that we echo a message that has been being heard for decades. To now...it is a losing pitch because people assume that the "fringe" represents us. They do not!!!! We want to be represented by clear headed, Republic thinking people and that is people like you and the millions of others who agree with the agenda in it's basic form.

To have Liberty we must have completely control over our lives. Each time we wrote new laws that seemed well intended in order to protect folks, we took a small step toward where we are today. It speaks for itself. Look at what just happened everybody. The United States Government just took your childrens right to have a fair chance at a life of real libeerty and flushed it down the comode. Come on. I'm sitting hear speaking as I type and wanting to cry I'm so frustrated. Think about it! We didn't get to vote on it! No one chose this!!!! Our government orchestrated it after pitching us some bullshit that they would somehow avoid anything close to this. Whagt if Newt Gingrich would have said in 1992 that the "Plan for America" will lead to a one trillion dollar bailout of major corporations in 17 years. Would anyone have voted for him or anyone who endorsed his plan? Hell No!

There comes a time when a starting over point is reached. You know...if at first you don't succeed, try try again! It's time to try again. I'd say reshape the Republican Party if I thought they would hold true to the program but they let us down. Does anyone in the Conservative base feel like the Republican Party upheld their standards of what they interpret the Republic to be about. Is spying on citizens, monitoring bank accounts, taxing us to death, eminant domain for gods sake (the very first issue of American Liberty and the dream). can anyone say your Republican Party went out and fought tooth and nail to uphold these things and protect the Conservative values of our forefathers and those soldiers who doed in defense of it? Come on! How long will we lie to ourselves because we don't wish to let go of the numbers in fear that it will get worse? To win...we must get on message...THAT is the true problem. When a Party who truely represents the real Conservative values as well as the "rights" beholding to an American, which does not always agree qwith every Conservative, stands up and says "enough", then and ONLY then will we get the attention that screams "Liberty" loud enoufgh to scare the Liberal pants off the Left and realize that the money, the power and foundation of American life is threatning to kick their ass to the curb!

Anything else is a wishful compromise and that is why we are in the state we are in!

[emmett]

Let me take the time to say that you are all wonderful Americans. Kathy epitamizes what is good and decent, as does Crin, Jeff, and most everyone taking part in this "real debate". Notice the absence of Lefties. It's above them to discuss this...absolutely above them.

This is a core conversation about how people who love the exact same things want to accomplish the trying task of retaining their American core values and how to do it!

To me...it's as simple as Compormise vs No Compromise! I'm mindful that Crin's point about Abortion could be shown both ways. He isn't willing to compromise. He wants all Abortion illegal. I understand. It sickens me to think a person copuld lye down on a table and allow some one to stick sopmething in them that would kill a human being. I can't stand it! It goes even further for me. I think of the defenseless human life being stuck while wiggling and screaming. I think of God shaking his head and thinking how could I have not accounted for this. The insult to the Supreme Being that the act is and that it would be perpretrated by a maqn/woman who had accepted the Oath of Hypocrates makes me sick. A person who had accepted God's gift to heal, to change the ourtcomes of lives with their wonderful learned human talent... using their skill to kill. I UNDERSTAND!!!!

The thing is though that it is between the person, the doctor and GOD! Notg a government. Not one elected by a 100% margin. No man, ever, has the right to set this in law one way or the other!

To prevent Abortion, there is only one sure fore way. Abstinence! Nothing else. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY! Parents, who stay married, who believe in rthe core values of American life as it should be. That is the only way. When it is done right, no law will matter! none of them. If we lived our lives correctly we wouldn't need childish laws or legitimate ones either to govern ourselves. NONE!

A law that allows Abortion is the same as one that doesn't! If you want to make a law, make one that says if you get pregnat you will never recieve a government taxpayer dollar to either pay for an abortion, welfare, subsistance or any other. THAT will have parents on their toes!

[Kathianne]

So wise is the school teacher from Chicago! Kathy....your belief that the LP is defined by the media makers of the party is .....(no comment). I'll use misinformed for lack of a better qualified word. I come from the core of the LP where meet up groups of 11 people (hypothetical) well accurate sometimes, meet and pow wow. These folks are not radicals, they express their concerns much like you JUST did. As do I. I don't want the message that assimilates with true Liberty to be mistaken, beleive me! I worry about this all the time. Emmett, I may love ya, but sorry a 'meet up' does not a party make. They may be salf of the earth and heart in the right place, but for some weird reason I'm not compelled to turn over my estate.

I guess I am saying that one has to "keep their eyes on the prize." It is the fundamental message of the Libertarian Party that I embrace. I know there are fringers, I'd be a fool to say otherwise but they exist in the big parties at a much greater rate.

The biggest difference between a true Libertarian and anyone else is comittment. I accept that there will be those who will use the message to promote an agenda. A Libertarian accepts each person's right to express ANY opinion they have. "Freedom of speech". If it involved breaking the law or restricting someone from experiencing the same Liberty guarenteed all, I would not suppport them.

Example: The radical Militant groups of NW US who claim to be Libertarians. OK Fine! To me, they have the right to do and say whatever they want so long as their actions don't physically prevent me or another American from experiencing our Liberty. To me, they represent a much lesser threat than the powerful US government who has already displayed a definite interest in restricting my liberty. That radical group hasn't effected me one little bit. That is all I am saying.

In addition, and please do not take this wrong! If people like you and other logical, leagal minded, law abiding, liberty loving citizens would be, (in my opinion) brave enough to stand up and say what you really are, each time a person who is really a Libertarian in their heart does this, the average Libertarian moves closer to reality. Why is it so hard for everyone to understand this? The Libertarian Party needs wise, logical thinking individuals, the ones who say, "to myself, I seem to be a Libertarian but I just can't line myself with some of the radical groups who claim to be so".

Please understand that this is the angle I come from. I AM a conservative Republican. A real one! A genuine, down home, conservative, small government, anti-Socialist freedom loving ......Republican! The problem is....the so called Republican Party isn't a Republic based message anymore and you and every American on earth knows this. (Don't mean to be putting words in your mouth....been there...been scolded...understand). I fought the same demons I hear you echo every day for years!

I like many "True Libertarians" only wish to acheive one goal and that goal is the almost identical message to Barry Goldwater's Republican one. The difference is, I am not willing to compromise like the Republican Party did. Now...tell me the Republican Party did not compromise their core agenda since that era and I will tear my LP card in absolute half and mail it to you.

I know there are those who use our platform to further their agenda. Fine! As long as they send their money and go and vote.....Fine! They won't get their radical ways. Those things aren't unacheivable nor desireable to any logical thinking human being! We aren't gong to get rid of black people, kill homosexuals or any of that other junk they preach. Their numbers are small, their claim is bogus and their purpose is unfounded! A true Libertarian is only concerned with the main agenda......freedom of choice, absolute liberty, small government and personal responsibility for ones own actions and family.

True Libertarians represent allot more of the party numbers than people think. It's just that we echo a message that has been being heard for decades. To now...it is a losing pitch because people assume that the "fringe" represents us. They do not!!!! We want to be represented by clear headed, Republic thinking people and that is people like you and the millions of others who agree with the agenda in it's basic form.

To have Liberty we must have completely control over our lives. Each time we wrote new laws that seemed well intended in order to protect folks, we took a small step toward where we are today. It speaks for itself. Look at what just happened everybody. The United States Government just took your childrens right to have a fair chance at a life of real libeerty and flushed it down the comode. Come on. I'm sitting hear speaking as I type and wanting to cry I'm so frustrated. Think about it! We didn't get to vote on it! No one chose this!!!! Our government orchestrated it after pitching us some bullshit that they would somehow avoid anything close to this. Whagt if Newt Gingrich would have said in 1992 that the "Plan for America" will lead to a one trillion dollar bailout of major corporations in 17 years. Would anyone have voted for him or anyone who endorsed his plan? Hell No!

There comes a time when a starting over point is reached. You know...if at first you don't succeed, try try again! It's time to try again. I'd say reshape the Republican Party if I thought they would hold true to the program but they let us down. Does anyone in the Conservative base feel like the Republican Party upheld their standards of what they interpret the Republic to be about. Is spying on citizens, monitoring bank accounts, taxing us to death, eminant domain for gods sake (the very first issue of American Liberty and the dream). can anyone say your Republican Party went out and fought tooth and nail to uphold these things and protect the Conservative values of our forefathers and those soldiers who doed in defense of it? Come on! How long will we lie to ourselves because we don't wish to let go of the numbers in fear that it will get worse? To win...we must get on message...THAT is the true problem. When a Party who truely represents the real Conservative values as well as the "rights" beholding to an American, which does not always agree qwith every Conservative, stands up and says "enough", then and ONLY then will we get the attention that screams "Liberty" loud enoufgh to scare the Liberal pants off the Left and realize that the money, the power and foundation of American life is threatning to kick their ass to the curb!

Anything else is a wishful compromise and that is why we are in the state we are in!

Emmett, I respect you, but the rest of the screed you posted, I just cannot take seriously enough to respond to. I guess you don't like me anymore.

[crin63]

Cringe, I hear you and recognize you don't agree with me. Truth is, so far you represent more the LIBERTARIAN Party more than I do, that is the problem.

Cringe??? LOL You all can call me C.R. if you are so inclined, its what I have gone by my entire life.

There isn't a party that represents my beliefs at this time. Yes I am more Libertarian than Republican and will probably stay a Republican until they go pro-death. Thats no guarantee though, I may jump ship any time if find a better fit.

What is the problem???

[emmett]

Emmett, I respect you, but the rest of the screed you posted, I just cannot take seriously enough to respond to. I guess you don't like me anymore.


Completely understood that you would choose not to respond! I get that all the time.

I respect you too! Always. As to whether I like you anymore. I have NO CHOICE, how could I not! You are a treasure of unequaled proportions.

[Jagger]

Anyone watching TV, listening to the radio or camping out under a rock knows the fastest growing company in the world is the US Government. How many companies can boast the acquisition of one trillion in assets of private companies in less than 50 days? It's incredible!

Show us some proof that the U. S. Government has actually acquired one trillion dollars of assets of private companies in the last 50 days.

[Kathianne]

Show us some proof that the U. S. Government has actually acquired one trillion dollars of assets of private companies in the last 50 days.

they haven't, or rather we haven't. All the more reason to say F U to Obama. Thanks for that.

[emmett]

Show us some proof that the U. S. Government has actually acquired one trillion dollars of assets of private companies in the last 50 days.


Fair question and I CAN NOT prove it.....YOU WIN!

I couldn't begin to tell the exact amount of bad debt the US Government has purchased for 2.00 to 10.00 on the 1.00. It's allot! But then a free market capitolist like yourself certainly knows that so I won't even........

Why don't you share some of your successes with us Jag. I'm very curious as to obtain some of your entrepreneurial prospective. I feel like we are always boring you or something because the points and topics you are forced to repetitively puncuate on here are so dull and uninformative. I just feel like we are not bringing out your best.

Oh...by the way? Have you straightened up those bad check charges yet?

[Jagger]

Have you straightened up those bad check charges yet?I've straighten out hundreds of bad check charges, dude.

[Jagger]

Fair question and I CAN NOT prove it.....YOU WIN!

I couldn't begin to tell the exact amount of bad debt the US Government has purchased

Bad debts aren't assets, dude.


Why don't you share some of your successes with us Jag.
My wife wouldn't like that.


I'm very curious as to obtain some of your entrepreneurial prospective. Follow your instincts. That's what I do.


I feel like we are always boring you.
Thank you for sharing your feeling with us.


Have you straightened up those bad check charges yet? What is the defendant's name?

[emmett]

Your brilliance resonates with us all Jaggie!

[Jagger]

Your brilliance resonates with us all Jaggie!

I like your mullet.

[glockmail]

I like your mullet. :lol: Business in front, party in back- the ultimate haircut.

Who's your avatar?

[Little-Acorn]

Would a Libertarian administration have allowed the current financial chaos?

Of course not. A Libertarian administration would never have passed the CRA in 1979 in the first place, and would never have set up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Nor would they have forced F&F (or their free-market equivalents when they came along) to buy up risky mortgages from other companies as Democrats did. So the "crisis" would never have occurred in the first place.

Of course, since Libertarians have proven almost 100% incompetent at winning elections, it doesn't much matter what they "would have" done, does it? Seems all they are good for, is slightly diluting the conservative vote.

[Jagger]

:lol: Business in front, party in back- the ultimate haircut.

Who's your avatar?
My little sister, about 15 years ago.

[Jagger]

Of course not. A Libertarian administration would never have passed the CRA in 1979 in the first place, and would never have set up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Nor would they have forced F&F (or their free-market equivalents when they came along) to buy up risky mortgages from other companies as Democrats did. So the "crisis" would never have occurred in the first place.

Of course, since Libertarians have proven almost 100% incompetent at winning elections, it doesn't much matter what they "would have" done, does it? Seems all they are good for, is slightly diluting the conservative vote.

Libertarians are the right wing version of Marxists.

[glockmail]

My little sister, about 15 years ago. Doubt it.