Rapture?

[-Cp]

So, you believe in a "rapture"? Please show me where it clearly says in scripture this will happen the way so many Christians claim it will..

[PostmodernProphet]

/shrugs....what I call "rapture" is simply this.....when Christ comes back, it's all over.....Judgement Day.....

[5stringJeff]

So, you believe in a "rapture"? Please show me where it clearly says in scripture this will happen the way so many Christians claim it will..

Will you reply using your own words/arguments, and not a copy/paste from e-mail or the web?

[-Cp]

Will you reply using your own words/arguments, and not a copy/paste from e-mail or the web?

Does that matter?

[sgtdmski]

The word Rapture is not in the Bible, however, the premise as Christian believe is clearly established within the Bible.


1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

The idea that some will be taken and not all is also laid out in the Bible.


Matthew 24:40-41

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Does that fulfill your requirement?

dmk

[Immanuel]

Well said sgt,

I would have repped ya, but I have to spread more of that stuff around.

As for the question of the OP, I don't believe that things will happen in the manner that Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins made so popular with the Left Behind series even though they were good reads.

PMP about sizes up my belief of the rapture. It happens at the return of Christ. As to what exactly will transpire, well, I'll wait for the pages of future history to unfold.

Immie

[hjmick]

Damn, I thought this was a thread about Deborah Harry.

[-Cp]

The word Rapture is not in the Bible, however, the premise as Christian believe is clearly established within the Bible.



The idea that some will be taken and not all is also laid out in the Bible.



Does that fulfill your requirement?

dmk

I THESSALONIANS 4:16-17

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (I Thes. 4:16-17).

When the above verses are read without understanding, it would appear Ribera, Lacunza, Darby, Irving, and Scofield were right in their teachings of the rapture.

Read more at link
http://www.godfire.net/Rapture.html

[-Cp]

The word Rapture is not in the Bible, however, the premise as Christian believe is clearly established within the Bible.



The idea that some will be taken and not all is also laid out in the Bible.



Does that fulfill your requirement?

dmk

AS THE DAYS OF NOAH WERE

When the words of this heading are heard or read, a lot of people's minds form images of what they think it says. To them it is generally a picture of the Rapture. But let me encourage all who embrace that thought to read these verses, in context, and hear as they plainly speak:

"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage...and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And...there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 24:37-40 & 51.

More at link

http://www.godfire.net/Rapture.html

[sgtdmski]

Let us set the record straight. The righteous was not taken in 70 A.D., and they will not be taken in a future rapture. These verses do not remotely suggest such a thing. But rather, Jesus was very clearly drawing a comparison between the two events of the flood and the destruction of Jerusalem. He was speaking plainly that in the same manner the wicked were taken by the flood, so it would be with the wicked in 70 A.D. And so it was! The wicked of that day were taken in judgment, while the righteous were left. They were spared the judgment of the son of man coming in the authority and power of God.

Would this statement not call into question the verse from Matthew?


Matthew 24:40-41

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

As well as the verse in The Book of Revelations:


Revelation 3:10

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

These verses seem to imply that believers will be taken to Heaven by Christ prior to the Tribulation period.

Furthermore it would seem that those who were Raptured return with Christ as his armies during his Second Coming when he battles the Anti-Christ.


Revelation 19:14

The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.

The truth is that no one knows, different denominations have different beliefs in what will occur.

dmk

[PostmodernProphet]

When the above verses are read without understanding, it would appear Ribera, Lacunza, Darby, Irving, and Scofield were right in their teachings of the rapture.

I'm sorry, but that's like saying the words "We went from Cleveland to Chicago" indicates that the people who designed the first automobile were right.....folks get into all this pre- and post-millenial by attempting to develop a literal interpretation of apocalyptic prose.....

this style of writing had a very specific purpose in the first century.....it was used to verbally attack the Roman government without actually saying anything that would result in the Roman government chopping you into little pieces and feeding you to lions.....

John wasn't recording some violent vision of the future, he was writing a carefully crafted condemnation of Rome.....who was engaged in persecution of Christians at the time....

all this speculation about which believer is going to float the highest the soonest is a monumental waste of energy......

[PostmodernProphet]

Furthermore it would seem that those who were Raptured return with Christ as his armies during his Second Coming when he battles the Anti-Christ.

take this for example.....battles the Anti-Christ?.....stop and think for a minute.....God doesn't need an army to battle anybody.....God has already defeated everyone that needs defeating....you need to stop wasting your time comparing your rapturologies and use that time in a better way.......

[-Cp]

No sense in my continuing this - every time I post a reply, the freakin' mod-nazi's chop up my replies...

[darin]

No - every time you quote an entire article, published elsewhere online, the 'mod-nazis' come back and do what it takes to protect the board.

[-Cp]

No - every time you quote an entire article, published elsewhere online, the 'mod-nazis' come back and do what it takes to protect the board.

I wasn't quoting entire articles....

[5stringJeff]

Does that matter?

Yes. If I'm going to take the time to think out a cohesive argument, I'd like the person taking the opposite view to do the same.

[-Cp]

Yes. If I'm going to take the time to think out a cohesive argument, I'd like the person taking the opposite view to do the same.

That's great, but it's easier to use a cohesive argument that's been established by someone else... either way, the points of the argument still stand..

[PostmodernProphet]

That's great, but it's easier to use a cohesive argument that's been established by someone else... either way, the points of the argument still stand..

what's the use of having a new debate if we only use old arguments?........

[crin63]

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Apparently the new Christians at Thessalonica were sorrowing over their dead loved ones because they didn’t know that their dead brethren would rise again to be with Christ. So Paul educated them in very simple and clear language. You have to have some kind of preconceived personal position or agenda not to clearly understand what Paul said to those Thessalonian believers. There’s no interpretation necessary for this scripture.

At the end of Matthew 24 Jesus is still answering the question proposed in verse 3 and is in reference to the tribulation (post rapture).

[5stringJeff]

That's great, but it's easier to use a cohesive argument that's been established by someone else... either way, the points of the argument still stand..

Then we'd have to rename the board "Cut and Paste Policy."