Now They Are Going For Salary Controls [Archive] - Debate Policy

Kathianne

03-31-2009, 10:18 AM

The power grab continues.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Beyond-AIG-A-Bill-to-let-Big-Government-Set-Your-Salary-42158597.html

Beyond AIG: A Bill to let Big Government Set Your Salary
By Byron York
Chief Political Correspondent 3/31/09

It was nearly two weeks ago that the House of Representatives, acting in a near-frenzy after the disclosure of bonuses paid to executives of AIG, passed a bill that would impose a 90 percent retroactive tax on those bonuses. Despite the overwhelming 328-93 vote, support for the measure began to collapse almost immediately. Within days, the Obama White House backed away from it, as did the Senate Democratic leadership. The bill stalled, and the populist storm that spawned it seemed to pass.

But now, in a little-noticed move, the House Financial Services Committee, led by chairman Barney Frank, has approved a measure that would, in some key ways, go beyond the most draconian features of the original AIG bill. The new legislation, the "Pay for Performance Act of 2009," would impose government controls on the pay of all employees -- not just top executives -- of companies that have received a capital investment from the U.S. government. It would, like the tax measure, be retroactive, changing the terms of compensation agreements already in place. And it would give Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner extraordinary power to determine the pay of thousands of employees of American companies....

Binky

03-31-2009, 10:41 AM

Oh, oh, this isn't a good thing. The gov't should not be able to restrict how much a person can earn.

Kathianne

03-31-2009, 10:53 AM

Oh, oh, this isn't a good thing. The gov't should not be able to restrict how much a person can earn.

Hey, but they'll 'give' you health care. I'm feeling so comfy in those government arms. :rolleyes:

Jagger

03-31-2009, 11:06 AM

stephanie

03-31-2009, 11:08 AM

Well, Bwany Frank is just being the good little Socialist that he is..I hope these salary controls hit all those good little Obamabots, first..

Jagger

03-31-2009, 11:17 AM

No financial institution that has received or receives a capital investment under this title may, while that capital investment remains outstanding, make a compensation payment to any executive or employee if such compensation payment or compensation payment arrangement provides for compensation that is unreasonable or excessive.

Source: Grayson-Himes Pay For Performance Act of 2009

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1664/text

stephanie

03-31-2009, 11:24 AM

Jagger

03-31-2009, 11:33 AM

so now we live under a dictatorship?
If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages to your employees?

Little-Acorn

03-31-2009, 11:45 AM

Let's see.

This proposal to control ALL the wages etc. of employees of companies, is said to apply only to companies that got bailout money fro the government, however unconstitutionally.

Apparently they want us to believe that companies that didn't get such bailouts, didn't have to worry about such government intrusion into their affairs.

You know, I seem to recall the same kind of talk about the government taking over companies it had bailed out. Don't worry, the leftists told us. This is ONLY for companies that took bailout money. And yet, almost immediately we started hearing of plans to similarly take over NON-bailout companies that got in serious trouble.

So now they want us to believe that they will control wages of everyone in a company, ONLY if that company was bailed out by the Fed???

Wake up, people. How many times do you need this article of faith disproved, by the very government that made the promise in the first place, before you start not believing it... and start reacting accordingly?

Jagger

03-31-2009, 11:53 AM

This proposal to control ALL the wages etc. of employees of companies, is said to apply only to companies that got bailout money fro the government, however unconstitutionally.
If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages to your employees?

Jagger

03-31-2009, 11:55 AM

Apparently they want us to believe that companies that didn't get such bailouts, didn't have to worry about such government intrusion into their affairs.
If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages to your employees?

Jagger

03-31-2009, 11:55 AM

You know, I seem to recall the same kind of talk about the government taking over companies it had bailed out. Don't worry, the leftists told us. This is ONLY for companies that took bailout money. And yet, almost immediately we started hearing of plans to similarly take over NON-bailout companies that got in serious trouble.
If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages to your employees?

stephanie

03-31-2009, 12:00 PM

If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages to your employees?

so you don't have a problem with our Government who was elected to serve WE THE PEOPLE and who pay their salaries, dictating how much our salaries should be, what kind of cars we should drive(since they now own the automakers), how much electricity we should use(since they are going after that next), what kinds of food we should eat?

Jagger

03-31-2009, 12:12 PM

so you don't have a problem with our Government dictating how much our salaries should be...

If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

stephanie

03-31-2009, 12:18 PM

If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

I do believe you are living in the wrong country, Hugo would probably be glad to have ya, sounds like you'd fit right in..
and has anybody ever told you, you sound like a broken record..?

Jagger

03-31-2009, 12:20 PM

Explain to us why a business owned by the taxpayers should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

stephanie

03-31-2009, 12:25 PM

Explain to us why a business owned by the taxpayers should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

I didn't ask to own these businesses, so why should my tax dollars be used for it in the first place..and I've never got my jollies off being a dictator.

Little-Acorn

03-31-2009, 12:46 PM

These controls piled on controls piled on restrictions are, of course, completely unconstitutional. The last time anything like this happened (1930s), the Supreme Court stood up against it, and declared the programs unconsitutional, one after the other. Then-President Roosevelt, naturally, said that the Supreme Court was the one who was wrong, not his programs, and launched an amazing campaign against them, holding them personally responsible for the horrors of the Depression. Saul Alinsky would have been proud of him. He even threatened to force a bunch of new "judges" onto the court to outvote the existing nine, though that plan never made it through Congress. But he succeeded in intimidating the Court enough that a few of the judges started reversing their own past verdicts. They even came up with a brand-new definition of "liberty" to accommodate the Dems' agenda of cradle-to-grave government "care". And the dam broke wide open.

One of the best (?) things about the current administration, is that it is discarding all restraints in imposing socialism on the country. And so they are throwing away their best weapon: incrementalism. Democrats used to make only a few small changes, wait for a while, make a few more small changes, etc. People never saw much of a change at any one time, so little alarm was ever raised. And so the leftist extremists moved the country gradually left.

But now they are simply, and brutally, crashing their way in everywhere they want to, apparently limited only by the speed they can type out the bills on their word processors. And they're rammig thousand-page bills through Congress, using the excuse of a financial "crisis" to hold votes literally within hours, giving possible opponents no time to even read the bills.

As a result, Obama's honeymoon with the American people, is ending with equal speed, as more and more people are reacting with outright horror at what the Democrats are doing to the country in the name of "helping" it.

The Democrats have so harangued themselves that they are saviors, and that their opponents are unspeakably evil, that they have come to believe it. Even weirder, they have decided that the American people believe it too. And so the Dems are now charging ahead at full speed, convinced that the socialistic society they have so long planned for, will now be received with open arms.

Obama's continuously falling ratings, are only the first sign that all is not well with the Democrats' agenda. But as they slam restrictions and govt intrusion into place right and left, they will shortly start seeing a LOT more such signs.

It may be too late already. The Democrats have overplayed their hand, and badly overestimated the desire of normal people for the socialism they (the Dems) crave.

There are two questions that come up, that will be answered soon, one way or another:

1.) Will it be possible for the Dems to back off quickly enough, to still keep most Americans in the dark about their intentions, as their party used to do from the 50s through the 90s?

2.) And even if it's possible, would the Democrats even try? Or will they keep charging ahead, convinced they have the people's approval even as it drops out from under them, and wind up doing an imitation of a cartoon character who has run off a cliff but not looked down yet?

manu1959

03-31-2009, 01:49 PM

don't run your company into the ground and take money from the government and you won't get told what your salary is.....

Yurt

03-31-2009, 01:55 PM

Explain to us why a business owned by the taxpayers should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

so you admit that we now own corporations....means and production...and you claim repubs about socialism, this control has been seized by democrats, not republicans.

disturbing trends

Yurt

03-31-2009, 01:55 PM

don't run your company into the ground and take money form the government and you won't get told what your salary is.....

great point

manu1959

03-31-2009, 01:59 PM

Explain to us why a business owned by the taxpayers should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

first off you don't own the company....you gave the company a loan and as collateral you were given prefered stock.....

if the terms of the loan included the right to set wages then go for it......

but the fact is the loan was given without those terms....and now... after the fact .... congress wants to renegotiate the terms of the loan.....

why anyone believes our government knows what it is doing is beyond me.....

manu1959

03-31-2009, 02:01 PM

great point

thanks ....but even blind squirrels find acorns now and then.....

Little-Acorn

03-31-2009, 02:20 PM

Keep in mind that most people here are not objecting to employees getting told what their salary, bonuses etc. are.

We are objecting to government telling private sector employees what their salary, bonuses etc. are.

An important difference, which makes ALL the difference.

Jagger

03-31-2009, 02:22 PM

I didn't ask to own these businesses, so why should my tax dollars be used for it in the first place..and I've never got my jollies off being a dictator.

Why don't you tell us why a business owned by the taxpayers should be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

stephanie

03-31-2009, 02:24 PM

Why don't you tell us why a business owned by the taxpayers should be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

So how many businesses do you own? last I checked, I didn't own any..

Yurt

03-31-2009, 02:35 PM

Why don't you tell us why a business owned by the taxpayers should be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

:lol:

stephanie

03-31-2009, 02:44 PM

I think a lot of the cult followers of the Democrat party, would really enjoy wearing brown shirts and jackboots..

my favorite saying, scratch a liberal, find a fascist..

manu1959

03-31-2009, 03:00 PM

Why don't you tell us why a business owned by the taxpayers should be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

first off you don't own the company....you gave the company a loan and as collateral you were given prefered stock.....

if the terms of the loan included the right to set wages then go for it......

but the fact is the loan was given without those terms....and now... after the fact .... congress wants to renegotiate the terms of the loan.....

Jagger

03-31-2009, 03:02 PM

Only a Republican Socialist would want to force the taxpayers to pay unreasonable and excessive compensation to financial institutions that have to be bailed out.

manu1959

03-31-2009, 03:05 PM

Only a Republican Socialist would want to force the taxpayers to pay unreasonable and excessive compensation to financial institutions that have to be bailed out.

first a republican socialist didn't want them to get any money.....

how do you feel ablut paying unreasonable and excessive compensation to congress.....they vote themselves a a tax payer bailout every year...

stephanie

03-31-2009, 03:09 PM

how do you feel ablut paying unreasonable and excessive compensation to congress.....they vote themselves a a tax payer bailout every year...

don't expect a logical answer to that question...you'll probably get..

If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages to your employees? :laugh2:

Binky

03-31-2009, 03:34 PM

Hey, but they'll 'give' you health care. I'm feeling so comfy in those government arms. :rolleyes:

I don't need gov't run health care. I already have good coverage. Unfortunately there are millions that think this a grand idea and need a nanny. I happen to be a big girl that doesn't need one telling me what to do.

manu1959

03-31-2009, 03:38 PM

I don't need gov't run health care. I already have good coverage. Unfortunately there are millions that think this a grand idea and need a nanny. I happen to be a big girl that doesn't need one telling me what to do.

what if you lose your job and can't afford cobra.....

what if you get cancer and max out your policy before you are cured.....

Jagger

03-31-2009, 04:16 PM

republican socialist didn't want them to get any money. But now you want the taxpayers to pay for unreasonable and excessive compensation.

Jagger

03-31-2009, 04:18 PM

I already have good coverage.
Where did you get your good coverage?

stephanie

03-31-2009, 04:22 PM

Where did you get your good coverage?

Probably not from the GOVERMENT.

Jagger

03-31-2009, 04:29 PM

Probably not from the GOVERMENT. Most people obtain their health insurance from their employer thanks to a socialist program known as ERISA.

stephanie

03-31-2009, 04:33 PM

Most people obtain their health insurance from their employer thanks to a socialist program known as ERISA.

so, you are in favor of Socialism?

Jagger

03-31-2009, 04:37 PM

so, you are in favor of Socialism?

Most Americans love our current Socialist Programs.

stephanie

03-31-2009, 04:42 PM

Most Americans love our current Socialist Programs.

you got any statistics for that one? or are you just talking about how "You love Socialist programs".

Kathianne

04-01-2009, 05:11 AM

If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages to your employees?

and who is to determine these salaries? Geithner. Wrong on so many levels, interesting that he's scaring the world leaders even moreso than the 'fiscal conservatives' here.

Jagger

04-01-2009, 08:46 AM

you got any statistics for that one? or are you just talking about how "You love Socialist programs".

Look at the Score Board. Then tell us why the taxpayers should be forced to pay unreasonable and excessive compensation to employees of financial firms that get bailed out by the taxpayers.

Jagger

04-01-2009, 08:48 AM

and who is to determine these salaries? Geithner. Wrong on so many levels, interesting that he's scaring the world leaders even moreso than the 'fiscal conservatives' here.

When did you become a Socialist/Marxist/Communist who wants the government to pay for unreasonable and excessive salaries for employees of bailed out financial firms?

Jagger

04-01-2009, 08:56 AM

and who is to determine these salaries? Geithner. Wrong on so many levels, interesting that he's scaring the world leaders even moreso than the 'fiscal conservatives' here.

If there is a dispute over the meaning of "unreasonable and excessive", the courts will decide what the words mean. Duh!

jimnyc

04-01-2009, 09:07 AM

Republicans are the new Socialists

Why do you socialist conservatives believe that financial institutions that receive capital investment from the taxpayers be allowed to make unreasonable or excessive compensation payments to their executives or employees?

If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages to your employees?

If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages to your employees?

If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages to your employees?

If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages to your employees?

If you've been bailed out by the taxpayers, why should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

Explain to us why a business owned by the taxpayers should you be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

Why don't you tell us why a business owned by the taxpayers should be allowed to pay unreasonable and excessive wages?

But now you want the taxpayers to pay for unreasonable and excessive compensation.

When did you become a Socialist/Marxist/Communist who wants the government to pay for unreasonable and excessive salaries for employees of bailed out financial firms?

Look, you repetitive, slimy little lying shitbag - STOP shitting up the board with your inane replies. I have no issue with different points of view. I have no issue with those that come here to stir the pot with their debates. I have no issue with someone asking stupid fucking questions.

I do have an issue with those who make the same exact posts in multiple threads and/or over and over in the same thread. I'm quickly growing tired of reading your repeated attempts to look cute. You don't look cute with your repetition - you look like a fucking idiot. And you will be further thread banned when you continue this bullshit. 10 posts in this one damn thread of the same damn stupid question. Once is sufficient as unlike you most of us can grasp what we read the first time around.

Kathianne

04-01-2009, 09:25 AM

Look, you repetitive, slimy little lying shitbag - STOP shitting up the board with your inane replies. I have no issue with different points of view. I have no issue with those that come here to stir the pot with their debates. I have no issue with someone asking stupid fucking questions.

I do have an issue with those who make the same exact posts in multiple threads and/or over and over in the same thread. I'm quickly growing tired of reading your repeated attempts to look cute. You don't look cute with your repetition - you look like a fucking idiot. And you will be further thread banned when you continue this bullshit. 10 posts in this one damn thread of the same damn stupid question. Once is sufficient as unlike you most of us can grasp what we read the first time around.

Jim, you are more 'the man' than I. I find my eyes blurring over when reading his crap. I'll try to stay awake better. ;)

Binky

04-01-2009, 04:16 PM

what if you lose your job and can't afford cobra.....

what if you get cancer and max out your policy before you are cured.....

And those are your excuses to have a nanny gov't? Sorry, but I don't want it.

Jagger

04-01-2009, 05:40 PM

And those are your excuses to have a nanny gov't? Can I have your Social Security Benefits?

Kathianne

04-01-2009, 06:17 PM

Can I have your Social Security Benefits?

Once again, totally ot. Stop or be thread banned.

Jagger

04-02-2009, 09:17 AM

Kathianne

04-02-2009, 09:27 AM

If you're against legislation that protects the taxpayers from funding unreasonable and excessive salaries, doesn't that mean you're in favor of making taxpayers liable for funding unreasonable and excessive salaries?

Assuming you work, which I know is a pretty big assumption, think it fair if tonight your HR department says your salary is being cut 50%, oh btw, retroactive from 6 months ago? Either give back what you owe or will with hold your next 6 months salary.

Jagger

04-02-2009, 09:54 AM

Assuming you work, which I know is a pretty big assumption, think it fair if tonight your HR department says your salary is being cut 50%, oh btw, retroactive from 6 months ago? Either give back what you owe or will with hold your next 6 months salary.

Has my employer been bailed out by the tax payers? Has my employer paid the tax payers back? Is my pay unreasonable and excessive?

Kathianne

04-02-2009, 10:00 AM

Has my employer been bailed out by the tax payers? Has my employer paid the tax payers back? Is my pay unreasonable and excessive?

So assume you make $40k for Citibank, now it's $20k with 6 months back. That's fair? The power is there and you should be concerned. It's a matter of time that they will do it to all.

Freaking fascists now in control.

Jagger

04-02-2009, 12:39 PM

Jagger

04-02-2009, 12:40 PM

So assume you make $40k for Citibank
What are my duties?

stephanie

04-02-2009, 12:49 PM

:lol:

the first thing he is worried about is what his duties would be...yet he has no problems imposing his will on what others salaries would be..

Jagger

04-02-2009, 12:50 PM

The power is there and you should be concerned. I've invested in many business ventures. If the business is in financial trouble, I always include a covenant in the financing agreement that establishes reasonable limits on the compensation of the company's employees.

Kathianne

04-02-2009, 12:53 PM

This bill will show which Republicans are so much on the take from the financial services industry that they're willing to actually bless compensation that has no bearing on performance and is excessive and unreasonable.

--Representative. Alan Grayson, the Florida Democrat who wrote the bill

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Beyond-AIG-A-Bill-to-let-Big-Government-Set-Your-Salary-42158597.html

It's already known that Frank and Obama and Dodd were the largest beneficiaries of banking/financials:

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/toprecips.php?id=D000000123

AIG for instance

Jagger

04-02-2009, 12:58 PM

As a taxpayer, who has assumed the risk of lending money to a troubled financial firm, to give it a chance to survive, I have no problem whatsoever with a provision in the lending agreement that, until the money is paid back, prohibits unreasonable and excessive pay for employees of the troubled firm.

Jagger

04-02-2009, 01:05 PM

It's already known that Frank and Obama and Dodd were the largest beneficiaries of banking/financial. So, why are you and your conservative socialists fellow travelers the ones who want to steal taxpayer money to pay unreasonable and excessive compensation to the incompetent employees of troubled financial firms being financed by the American taxpayers?

Kathianne

04-02-2009, 01:11 PM

So, why are you and your conservative socialists fellow travelers the ones who want to steal taxpayer money to pay unreasonable and excessive compensation to the incompetent employees of troubled financial firms being financed by the American taxpayers?

Again you are reposting. Stop now.

stephanie

04-02-2009, 01:13 PM

emmett

04-02-2009, 01:18 PM

I've invested in many business ventures. If the business is in financial trouble, I always include a covenant in the financing agreement that establishes reasonable limits on the compensation of the company's employees.

YOU are not the US Government! You are not using taxpayers money to invest in these ventures you describe.

GM (Government Motors) is a different story. First of all, we did not outline any perimiters that would apply, not that we should be involved in their financial dealings to begin with. When Barry fired the CEO he violated so many ethics rules of government intervention in the private sector he basically broke the law. He used the power of government to oust a private citizen from his job!

What the hell am I doing trying to explain this stuff to this guy.

Jagger.....................never mind!

Jagger

04-02-2009, 01:22 PM

Ummmmm, maybe they shouldn't of been BAILED OUT with our tax dollars in the first place.
Maybe you should accept the fact that they were.

Jagger

04-02-2009, 01:31 PM

First of all, we did not outline any perimeters that would apply Too bad, dude. We, the taxpayers. make the rules. If you don't like it, get a lawyer and sue.

Jagger

04-02-2009, 01:34 PM

When Barry fired the CEO he violated so many ethics rules of government intervention in the private sector he basically broke the law. Why don't you file a complaint with the law enforcement authorities.

He used the power of government to oust a private citizen from his job. He who holds the gold, holds the power. You want the loan, we own your ass, until we get our money back.

stephanie

04-02-2009, 01:42 PM

Why don't you file a complaint with the law enforcement authorities.

He who holds the gold, holds the power. You want the loan, we own your ass, until we get our money back.

how do you look in brown and boots?

MtnBiker

04-02-2009, 01:52 PM

how do you look in brown and boots?

actually the updated version is baggy pants and a red t-shirt

stephanie

04-02-2009, 02:27 PM

actually the updated version is baggy pants and a red t-shirt

we don't want to forget the black berate and night sticks..

Jagger

04-02-2009, 03:35 PM

how do you look in brown and boots?

I look good in just about anything. How do you conservative socialists think you look advocating for forcing taxpayers to pay unreasonable and excessive compensation to employees of bailed out firms?

emmett

04-02-2009, 03:43 PM

Why don't you file a complaint with the law enforcement authorities.

Now that is good debate technique. Now lets identify the next letter. Its a "B". can you make that sound. Say "B" Jaggie.

He who holds the gold, holds the power. You want the loan, we own your ass, until we get our money back.

We? :lol: So am I to suppose that you and Barry are on the same miserable financial team that just loaned a bazillion dollars to AIG. I need not make a further point. You have made it for me! Oh...by the way...your company is broke!

stephanie

04-02-2009, 03:45 PM

i look good in just about anything. How do you conservative socialists think you look advocating for forcing taxpayers to pay unreasonable and excessive compensation to employees of bailed out firms?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, burp

Kathianne

04-02-2009, 03:49 PM

stephanie

04-02-2009, 03:51 PM

You were warned. Thread banned.

awwww Kat, we were just starting to have some fun with it...:coffee:

Kathianne

04-02-2009, 03:53 PM

awwww Kat, we were just starting to have some fun with it...:coffee:

Can't help that. He is going to get with the parameters or not.

emmett

04-02-2009, 03:55 PM

I look good in just about anything. How do you conservative socialists think you look advocating for forcing taxpayers to pay unreasonable and excessive compensation to employees of bailed out firms?

First of all, bailing out anyone with taxpayer money is the wrong thing to do in a free market society. I'm certain a business man such as yourself who no doubt possesses superior entrepreneurial skills understands that you would not want one of the companies you have funded with your self made fortune having to compete against government to make a profit. That would certainly be redundent wouldn't you say? Now of course if you weren't really who you say you are and just a burned out hippe such as myself, difference being that you sit around on your ass in that apartment collecting Assistance from our government, well, then I'd say you were full of it. But then again if you are a multi million dollar tycoon who funds ailing companies you of all people would be first to jump on the bandwagon against this type of activity.

I do want you to know that I am perplexed at your prowess and incredible knowledge of business. Your taking the time to elaborate on the techniques you utilize are overwhelmingly impressive. Keep up the good work!

Oh......by the way....still waiting on a good point to be made about anything you choose. So far....just Jaggin.....I mean jargin......:laugh2:

Jaggiejargin! Oh that's funny. I don't care where you are from that is funny!

:laugh2:

stephanie

04-02-2009, 03:58 PM

Can't help that. He is going to get with the parameters or not.

I understood, just razzzing ya.

Kathianne

04-02-2009, 03:58 PM

First of all, bailing out anyone with taxpayer money is the wrong thing to do in a free market society. I'm certain a business man such as yourself who no doubt possesses superior entrepreneurial skills understands that you would not want one of the companies you have funded with your self made fortune having to compete against government to make a profit. That would certainly be redundent wouldn't you say? Now of course if you weren't really who you say you are and just a burned out hippe such as myself, difference being that you sit around on your ass in that apartment collecting Assistance from our government, well, then I'd say you were full of it. But then again if you are a multi million dollar tycoon who funds ailing companies you of all people would be first to jump on the bandwagon against this type of activity.

I do want you to know that I am perplexed at your prowess and incredible knowledge of business. Your taking the time to elaborate on the techniques you utilize are overwhelmingly impressive. Keep up the good work!

Oh......by the way....still waiting on a good point to be made about anything you choose. So far....just Jaggin.....I mean jargin......:laugh2:

Jaggiejargin! Oh that's funny. I don't care where you are from that is funny!

:laugh2:

Now Emmett, that was cruel. LOL! He can't respond, since he couldn't follow the rules.