Nationalized health care

[emmett]

Could you just imagine the quality of Health Care provided by the average hospital in California after our government institutes national Health Care?

I can see it now!

A Friday evening Emergency Room recieves a 54 yr old male auto accident victim during a busy period.

Nurse: "This patient has a head injury Doctor Deadly, a broken leg, and possibly a spinal injury as well."

Doctor: Let's do a qualifier on him?"

Qualifier......Definition; an evaluation performed at American Emergency Rooms to determine the probably of success on a patient. This test is the standard used so as to assist doctors in deciding who gets treatment first or if at all due to exceeding costs.

Doctor thinks to himself.....................Damn! If we keep treating these people I'll never get a raise. My payments are behind on my 450SL, I still have to get up that other 30,000 for my renovation on the playroom and we keep pumping money into these irresponsible ass drunk drivers.

Doctor: "Nurse....is he a smoker?"

Nurse: "His digital records indicate that he is. He also has high blood pressure and is borderline diabetic."

Doctor: "Place him in the Neutral Zone and we'll go on to some of these others that have a better chance of survival."

Nurse: "But Doctor....he's been here for over an hour!"

Doctor: "Maybe he'll expire Nurse! That will allow us to address this other stuff and he appears to have some good parts. We're in need of parts for inventory right now anyway."

Nurse: "Yes doctor...your right."

Doctor: "The Government Administrator made that point this morning at the meeting. We need more "quick change" body parts such as this guy anyway. It allows us to save the good stuff for the paying customers. I don't know about you Nurse but I'm tired of getting pink slips for pay!"

Nurse: "Yes doctor...I understand!"

Doctor: "For that matter...go ahead and term him so his record won't show such a long "holding" period. List the cause of death as Blunt head trauma"

Nurse: "Yes doctor."





Now...if you want to be so shallow as to believe this shit won't happen to you under a government health care system...you are just naive and dumb. It will become the new standard heroic act of protecting the "common good" to perform acts like this.

Great emphasis to keep costs down and spend the taxpayers money wisely will incite this behavior. You will be told what to eat, how to live, what habits to avoid and it will be a matter of public record what you don't adhere to. Anyone who does not believe this is a damn fool! Just a damn fool!

[Noir]

Jesus,

I guess I'll be dead the next time I have an accident then, cus all of our healthcare is socialized, I hope I never get ill!

I am rather disapponted emmett, normally I enjoy your posts as they are informitivw and well wriiten, but that right there is a bunch of balls

[emmett]

Jesus,

I guess I'll be dead the next time I have an accident then, cus all of our healthcare is socialized, I hope I never get ill!

I am rather disapponted emmett, normally I enjoy your posts as they are informitivw and well wriiten, but that right there is a bunch of balls

Funny... I have a friend who lives in London and he isn't anywhere near as confident in their Health Care as you obviously are.

Thank You for the compliment as i appreciate your honesty. thing is i don't post for popularity. If I did, as a Libertarian, I'd be in trouble. :laugh2: Fact is I disagree with most people on this board about what they tolerate as their accepted government.

As to the direct nature of this post I wrote here. It will and does happen under Socialized medicine. Whether the public sees it is another thing all together.

With anything the law of averages comes into play. Let's say a business. When you a business you are the only employee. Service is probably never better than the company you start in that regard. As soon as you add one employee the "average" committment is lessened by proxy. By providing "more" care to more people, tha average care quality will go down. It really isn't that hard to understand! Add in the fact that the folks who provide the care will stand to gain monetarily from the lower care standards and "cost effieciency" associated with it.............well............

I can see it now.....

Warnings from government to parents to stop bringing in their children for ailments such as cold symptoms to relieve overcrowding of Emergency Rooms. Monitoring of children who miss more than a given amount of school days and punishing of parents who allow their kids to play in the rain. All one needs is a little tiny bit of imigination to think of all the ramifications of Socialized Medicine. Pretend if you like that this will not be the case but we just had a President fire the CEO of a Private Enterprise Corporation, get real!

Maybe it is the fact that these things are actually happening and unfurling themselves in our face that makes us blind to the fact that we brought it on ourselves by not listening to the wise folks who didn't wait until it was happening to "predict it". Many Libertarian writers warned us of these exact occurrances during the 80s and 90s. "Oh God...there he goes again!" the members are thinking. Well.....it's true as hell! Harry Browne outlined an almost exact scenario with the banking industry 15 years before it happened. He was labeled a quack by many....no....nost Republicans and laughed at!

OK....Republicans.....how hard are you laughing now? Am I suprised then that a Socialist....such as yourself Noir....would not disagree with me about my fears for my country's health security, nope!

I gotta add this! It's irony in it's truest sense. Most .... yep..I say most because I see them every day, parking spaces in government housing projects in Atlanta are filled with vehicles a person on welfare or government assistance should not be able to afford. Lincoln Navigators and other luxury cars, 22" wheels and i-phones are in practically every other parking space. My health care payments are 172.69 per month. I dare say the hundreds spent on the phone, the bill, the wheels and the car could not be broken down into a monthly cost that exceeds wnat I spend on my health care.

It all comes down to ....votes! It's liberals trading philosophy for power. Republicans thought they could play the game but they didn't have as much to gain so they lost. The winner will always be the party who can paint the picture of the one that represents the people's biggest gains.

Socialized Health Care is a loser! Will it be so? YES. Who will pay for it? People who used to be able to afford real care. Its a this for that strategy. Trade the quality of care for all to provide the quanity of government controlled care for some. The problem is that the people who benefit the least will pay the most. Common Socialist strategy.

I'm done! Poorly written maybe but heartfelt as hell!

[emmett]

WARNING / US GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE MARSHALL'S OFFICE

TO: Mrs Jane Anderson
123 ABC St
Anywhere, State 11111

Dear Mrs. Johnson,

It has come to our attention that you have been allowing your son Johnny to go outside and play in the rain on numerous occasions. Neighbors have reported seeing Johnny meandering around the neighborhood with wet shoes, muddy and constantly sniffling.

It is my government assigned duty to make you aware as well that Johnny has been into the doctors office three more times than is allowed under the US Government's Preventive Medcine Doctrine which allows two visits per year for physicals and 1 emergency. You have become a burden to your fellow Americans with your refusal to properly restrain Johnny and it is eating up the resources of our system. This hampers our ability to look after the common good of all citizens and makes your neighbors feel like you are taking advantage of them. Can't you just keep Johnny in on rainy days and let him play X-Box or something?

This is your last warning! Any further reports by the Neighborhood Watch Program Supervisor will result in a penalty to you and your family. It could result in medical services being denied to you or another member of your family if this behavior persists.

Should you require additional information about this report or need to address this concern with a case worker, please submit a request chit through your local US Government Health Care Represenative. Please be advised that due to the volume of these requests it could be six to eight weeks before a case worker can get back to you. In the meantime do not allow Johnny to play outside to assure he can not be caught out in the rain.

The US Government expects your complicity in this matter!

[PostmodernProphet]

ah, comeon, Emmet.....that letter wouldn't be necessary, since Mom wouldn't have been able to get in to see the doctor three times...."Hello, I would like to make an appointment for a doctor to see my Johnny, he has the sniffles"....."Fine, we have on opening in October"....."but that's three months away!"......"Yes, you're in luck. We had a cancellation and you can get in early".......

[emmett]

Dear Dr. Smith, 20APR2025

I would like to take this opportunity to address your request to be allowed severance from the US Government Health Care Department. Requests such as these can not be entertained as you well know! You will report back to work at 0800 for your usual 98 hour shift immediately or you will be subject to prosecution.

I may remind you sir that you were trained by the US Government. Your education was paid for by the people of the US Government Education Mandate and Career Services Dept. who decided that a career in medicine was best suited for you and suited your aspirations and aptitudes best. As you were taught in Elementary School, it is selfish to think of yourself before your country and this citizen, is certainly a selfish proposition on your part.

Please understand that the US Government wished every citizen could choose his or her own profession but what kind of world would we live in if that was the case? How in the world would your Government be able to keep track of every single citizens intentions in this regard. Why... this would cause a return to the days of old when everyone decidedelfishly what was best for them and their families with no regard for the common good of all of our citizenry!

The US Government is a caring and understanding people based service. Leniancy is our motto. You will not even be placed on report for this violation this time. Any further disruptions however will be met with consequences.

As to the suggestion that you made regarding sub-standard care. A more stern warning should be understood regarding these statements. A copy of your letter will be placed in your Social Security file. One more infraction such as this will result in your US Government Identification chip being programmed not to allow you access to your Privledges Center for thirty days.

Please be advised that your privledged life as a Doctor, 2 bedroom apartment and Class C Solar Electric Mobility Device are not available to every citizen. Be thankful that you have these privledges.

[Kathianne]

Dear Dr. Smith, ....

Please be advised that your privledged life as a Doctor, 2 bedroom apartment and Class C Solar Electric Mobility Device are not available to every citizen. Be thankful that you have these privledges.

Back in the USSR...

[Noir]

it is quite funny to read this and see what y'all think it is like, if I want to see my doc I phone up on the day, and asking as I phone before 10am I'm basicly certain to see my family doc within a few hours.

And I memo last year when I really needed he NHS and it was much better than I ever thought it would have been, judging by the media I thought it would have been shit, but it was honestly really good.

[emmett]

Now I must remind you Noir that I am not talking about YOUR country.....I'm talking about mine. There is a difference. My country's Constitution guarentees me a thing or two that yours does not. They are very different in many other ways as well. Don't get me started with all that royal family horseshit and stuff!

I live in a country where it was suppose top be guarenteed that I had the right to defend myself. You live in a country where a policeman blows a fucking whistle at a bank robber! Two different scenarios my friend.

Personally, I have health insurance and can go right down the street to my own chosen doctor, not the one assigned me, I can walk right in and be seen without calling first. If I am seriously sick or injured I can be taken to the Emergency Room, as can anyone in my country. Medical care is denied no one at Emergency Rooms.

I like this and want it to stay that way!

[Noir]

Now I must remind you Noir that I am not talking about YOUR country.....I'm talking about mine. There is a difference. My country's Constitution guarentees me a thing or two that yours does not. They are very different in many other ways as well. Don't get me started with all that royal family horseshit and stuff!

I live in a country where it was suppose top be guarenteed that I had the right to defend myself. You live in a country where a policeman blows a fucking whistle at a bank robber! Two different scenarios my friend.

Personally, I have health insurance and can go right down the street to my own chosen doctor, not the one assigned me, I can walk right in and be seen without calling first. If I am seriously sick or injured I can be taken to the Emergency Room, as can anyone in my country. Medical care is denied no one at Emergency Rooms.

I like this and want it to stay that way!


Indeed, but you are having a go at socail healthcare, which I and everyone I know has been using fine, and we also do nothave t phone up, you can just walk into an A&E room at get seen to, I only used the example of phone so you could see your family doc, but A&E rooms let you see docs 24/7. And if you feel too unwell to leave the house you can get an out of hours doc to make a home call.

[Noir]

Now I must remind you Noir that I am not talking about YOUR country.....I'm talking about mine. There is a difference. My country's Constitution guarentees me a thing or two that yours does not. They are very different in many other ways as well. Don't get me started with all that royal family horseshit and stuff!

I live in a country where it was suppose top be guarenteed that I had the right to defend myself. You live in a country where a policeman blows a fucking whistle at a bank robber! Two different scenarios my friend.

Personally, I have health insurance and can go right down the street to my own chosen doctor, not the one assigned me, I can walk right in and be seen without calling first. If I am seriously sick or injured I can be taken to the Emergency Room, as can anyone in my country. Medical care is denied no one at Emergency Rooms.

I like this and want it to stay that way!


Indeed, but you are having a go at socail healthcare, which I and everyone I know has been using fine, and we also do nothave t phone up, you can just walk into an A&E room at get seen to, I only used the example of phone so you could see your family doc, but A&E rooms let you see docs 24/7. And if you feel too unwell to leave the house you can get an out of hours doc to make a home call.

[sgtdmski]

This is the problem with a nationalized health system in this country, what happens in the smaller communities that do not have clinics, but rather hospitals and emergency rooms?

Many private doctors often opt out of accepting Medicare/Medicaid (http://www.ask.com/bar?q=Can+doctors+refuse+to+accept+medicaid+patien ts&page=1&qsrc=0&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmlyon01.wordpress.com%2F2007%2F07%2 F19%2Fnote-to-medicaid-patients-the-doctor-wont-see-you%2F)patients due to the problems they have receiving timely payments from the government. Oftentimes they are underpaid by the government and are unable to receive payment from the patient, therefore they have to accept the loss or raise their prices to receive compensation from the paying patients.

As a result, oftentimes Medicaid and Medicare patients use the Emergency Room as a primary healthcare facility. This use of the ER causes the cost of their visit to be increased. Yes folks it is true, you pay more for an emergency room visit than you do for a doctor's office visit. Paying more cause the cost to the system to increase.

Currently, many of the Medicaid patients in this country abuse the system, they do not seek a primary care physician, and instead use the ER as their clinic. Since the ER is a first come, first serve type setting, based upon severity of injury or illness, no appointment is necessary and they can show up whenever they find the time.

That is why in many of the County Hospitals in this country have such busy ERs. Part of the problem is the lack of clinics, the fact that doctors are not accepting new patients, and in some instance the lack of personal responsiblity on the part of the patient.

If the government trully wants to fix the healthcare problem that we as a nation face, the first step would be to put a co-pay in effect on the Medicaid patients. The co-pay should be used to discourage the use of the ER and encourage the use of a doctor. A reasonable co-pay for a doctor's visit could be as little as $3.00, whereas a co-pay for the ER should be $25.00 - $30.00. This step alone would cause many of the Medicaid recipients to better take care of themselves and to use the system that the majority of us use.

The co-pay does not need to be cash up-front from these patients, the money can be paid to the doctors by having the government deduct the payments from benefits the person receives, this would answer the complaint that doctors would be turning away the poor.

The second step the government must take is an investment in clinics for counties and cities. By establishing acute care clinics, this could assist those patients who have a difficult time finding a doctor willing to accept them, this will also prevent these patients from using the ER.

Finally, the government needs to establish a more realistic as well as timely payment system to the providers. This will enable the providers to reduce their costs all around and thus lower the cost of all patients.

This is just my humble opinion, however, it is based upon 16 years of being a laboratory technician who see what goes on.

dmk

[Jagger]

Could you just imagine the quality of Health Care provided by the average hospital in California after our government institutes national Health Care?

I can see it now!

A Friday evening Emergency Room recieves a 54 yr old male auto accident victim during a busy period.

Bay Area man dies in a Sacramento-area hospital waiting room. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/state&id=6337644

Dallas man dies after waiting 19 Hours in E.R. http://www.ktla.com/landing/?Man-Dies-After-Waiting-19-Hours-in-ER=1&blockID=70301&feedID=1080

[Nukeman]

Bay Area man dies in a Sacramento-area hospital waiting room. http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/state&id=6337644

Dallas man dies after waiting 19 Hours in E.R. http://www.ktla.com/landing/?Man-Dies-After-Waiting-19-Hours-in-ER=1&blockID=70301&feedID=1080

And when you NATIONALIZE the health care in the US you will see this DAILY.........

[emmett]

Jagger................... never mind!

[AlbumAddict]

There have been many interesting points made. I don't think it's possible to compare our possible "national health care" with any other country. Some of those reasons have been mentioned, BUT an important one hasn't. Look at the number of citizens (and illegals) in the US and compare that number to, let's say Norway. What works for Norway (pop 4.6 million), probably won't work the same for a country of 303.8 million. There are SO many factors simply relating to population alone, resources, supply and demand, age ranges, illegals/criminals who don't pay taxes, but receive benefits etc.

You simply can't compare the US with any other socialized country, imo.

FYI, my Norwegian friend has told me that privatized health care is on a quick incline in her country because wealthy people don't like to "wait" and are willing to pay for faster care (not just being seen) in addition to the taxes they already pay. Her government (other citizens) also paid her salary for 3 months while she went to a weight loss program in Sweden and paid the thousands of "dollars" for the program itself because her weight was a "medical concern". She looked great and was definately healthier afterward, but now that she's putting the weight back on, will they pay for her to go again? And should the citizen's of her country have to pay again?

[Nukeman]

There have been many interesting points made. I don't think it's possible to compare our possible "national health care" with any other country. Some of those reasons have been mentioned, BUT an important one hasn't. Look at the number of citizens (and illegals) in the US and compare that number to, let's say Norway. What works for Norway (pop 4.6 million), probably won't work the same for a country of 303.8 million. There are SO many factors simply relating to population alone, resources, supply and demand, age ranges, illegals/criminals who don't pay taxes, but receive benefits etc.

You simply can't compare the US with any other socialized country, imo.

FYI, my Norwegian friend has told me that privatized health care is on a quick incline in her country because wealthy people don't like to "wait" and are willing to pay for faster care (not just being seen) in addition to the taxes they already pay. Her government (other citizens) also paid her salary for 3 months while she went to a weight loss program in Sweden and paid the thousands of "dollars" for the program itself because her weight was a "medical concern". She looked great and was definitely healthier afterward, but now that she's putting the weight back on, will they pay for her to go again? And should the citizen's of her country have to pay again?
Not just Norway, but in Sweden and Finland as well, My wife and I have relatives there and they say the same thing. It is NOTHING to wait for 2-4 months for a "standard" MRI. You would have that same/next day here in the US.

they have told us nightmares of the way patients are treated, I'm not talking about care but AFTER CARE, TRANSPORTATION, SCHEDULING and HOSPITAL STAYS. (would you as an American be content to be placed in a waiting room for a week after surgery because the rooms were full, you know just push the chairs out and place a few dividers up so you can house 3-5 patients in the waiting room on gurneys for a week)




I would like to add YOU brought the most salient point in all the arguing, WE HAVE 303 MILLION PEOPLE TO LOOK AFTER most of the socialized countries have fewer than we have in one state..They still have problems!!!!!!

[AlbumAddict]

I would like to add YOU brought the most salient point in all the arguing, WE HAVE 303 MILLION PEOPLE TO LOOK AFTER most of the socialized countries have fewer than we have in one state..They still have problems!!!!!!

I think that's the BIGGEST problem with nationalized anything with the US. Another prime example (based on my limited knowledge) is the decline in our educational system. Why? Because we nationalized education. *sigh* But, that, I suppose, is an entirely separate thread. Perhaps one I should begin...

[Jagger]

One of the great canards advanced by the flying monkey right is that health care decisions should be made by a doctor, not by some "faceless, evil bureaucrat". Guess what? At the present time, doctors in United States don't make health care decisions. They're made by faceless, evil insurance company employees.

[Nukeman]

I think that's the BIGGEST problem with nationalized anything with the US. Another prime example (based on my limited knowledge) is the decline in our educational system. Why? Because we nationalized education. *sigh* But, that, I suppose, is an entirely separate thread. Perhaps one I should begin...This is because they would rather higher 30 teachers to tell our children about sex and feeling good about themselves instead of science and math teachers.

WE as a country emphasis WAY to much on self esteem and sex ed and all the feel good classes instead of sticking with the basics of Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic.

WE NEED TO GET BACK TO BASICS. We spend too much time teaching for a "Test" instead of general knowledge.

Care to chime in on that Kathianne???

[Jagger]

It is NOTHING to wait for 2-4 months for a "standard" MRI. You would have that same/next day here in the US.
It's nothing to wait 2-4 months in the U. S. A to get an MRI.

[Nukeman]

One of the great canards advanced by the flying monkey right is that health care decisions should be made by a doctor, not by some "faceless, evil bureaucrat". Guess what? At the present time, doctors in United States don't make health care decisions. They're made by faceless, evil insurance company employees.Your right and because of that we have to have 2-4 test to "confirm" what is already known by the Doctor and their patient after only 1 test and observation, but in order to have it "payed" for we have to jump through the hoops of some "faceless evil bureaucrat" that DOESN'T HAVE A F***ING CLUE what they are talking about. The person is probably looking at a computer screen with what they can and can't do.

That in and of itself contributes to the excess cost of health care in the US. Not to mention that MOST emergency health care in the US is performed as CYA medicine instead of treatment we have to access the patient for anything that may get us sued.......... I'm sorry but if you come to the ER for a foot injury you should not be able to sue me because I missed your liver disease because i "didn't run the test". Why the hell should I be looking at your liver when you came for a foot problem......????????

[Nukeman]

It's nothing to wait 2-4 months in the U. S. A to get an MRI.
IF YOU CHOOSE TO.. Show me where YOU have to wait that long for a MRI. I challenge you to show me where ANYONE with a diagnosis of ca or recent stroke, or injury would EVER wait 2-4 months. I am not talking"scheduled" follow up to see how treatment took effect but what NEEDS to be done. Your so full of shit.

[Jagger]

Nurse’s insurance nightmare makes her a single-payer advocate

http://www.healthcare-now.org/2009/03/nurses-insurance-nightmare-makes-her-a-single-payer-advocate/

[Nukeman]

Nurse’s insurance nightmare makes her a single-payer advocate

http://www.healthcare-now.org/2009/03/nurses-insurance-nightmare-makes-her-a-single-payer-advocate/What does this have to do with wait times. That is a article about insurace company refusing payment.

SHOW ME AVERAGE WAIT TIMES IN THE US!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trigg]

It's nothing to wait 2-4 months in the U. S. A to get an MRI.

1. How old are you and what hospital have you worked in?????

2. Between Nukeman and I we've worked in 4 different states and 10 different health care facilities including 2 VA's. I will guarantee you that there has NEVER been a wait time longer than 7 days.

Right now I work at a small hospital and the wait is maybe 2 days. You are full of shit if you think there is a 2 month wait anywhere. Back it up or shut up.

My older sister lives in Finland and I KNOW what her health care system is like. Her mother-in-law was sent to Sweden for cardiac care and was not only put in the HALLWAY but released in her house slippers and robe. Yep, all hail European socialized medicine.

[Kathianne]

This is because they would rather higher 30 teachers to tell our children about sex and feeling good about themselves instead of science and math teachers.

WE as a country emphasis WAY to much on self esteem and sex ed and all the feel good classes instead of sticking with the basics of Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic.

WE NEED TO GET BACK TO BASICS. We spend too much time teaching for a "Test" instead of general knowledge.

Care to chime in on that Kathianne???

Well since I've been invited. :laugh2: Seems to me the NCLB implies just that schools teach to what's on the test, or lose funding. Me? Right now I'm in a private school, which is state certified, meaning meeting objectives and standards set, but not limited to.

Thus I've been able over the course of 10 years to make our 6th grade curriculum meet standards and beyond, to 11th grade level.

Move the constitution test on Fed and state to 7th grade, which makes more sense and deal in depth with political philosophy of the Founders/Framers, aided by the "We the People" series (http://www.civiced.org/index.php?page=wtp_introduction), funded by Congress.

Pick up 8th grade at Reconstruction or Civil War depending on class ability. This year, reconstruction, which allowed me to introduce the class to the Stock Market Game (http://www.smgww.org/), in addition to regular curriculum.

In the past 10 years, the lowest number of my students that didn't qualify for AP courses in high school has been 3.

[emmett]

Kathy for Secretary of Education.


Jagger..............ah...............never mind!