I had no clue what a tea party was untill [Archive] - Debate Policy

Trinity

03-17-2009, 06:51 PM

about 2 weeks ago, when I started reading and hearing about them. And then I find this, about 45 minutes from my house, in Ohio.

Thousands join "Tea Party" on Fountain Square

Posted: March 16, 2009 01:11 AM

Updated: March 16, 2009 01:26 AM

Thousands of people crowded Fountain Square Sunday afternoon to protest the Obama administration's stimulus package and budget. The event, promoted largely through the Internet and talk radio, may have been the largest political protest in Cincinnati since the Vietnam era.

The organizers urged people who were attending to create their own signs, and many did so. Among the slogans: "The Audacity of Socialism", "I got a 2nd job, not a bailout", and "Hey Obama, go stimulate yourself". A sign with pictures of both George W. Bush and Barack Obama said, "Deficits we can believe in."

Police estimated the crowd around five thousand. Speakers included some of the organizers, along with radio hosts Brian Thomas and Mike McConnell. There has been a series of "Tea Party" protests around the country, inspired by the Revolutionary-War era "Boston Tea Party" protesting a British tax on tea. The one in Cincinnati may be the largest so far.

Television reporters and photographers left an area of the protest when a group of hostile people got in their faces, but the event appeared to be generally trouble-free. One woman with an Obama sign was moving around the edge of the crowd, but no organized counter protest was evident.

http://www.wxix.com/Global/story.asp?S=10011261

DannyR

03-17-2009, 06:57 PM

Yurt

03-17-2009, 07:06 PM

I give kudo's to anybody who is politically active and becomes involved in trying to cut spending.

However I don't think the term "tea party" is the best description for these events. The original one protested taxation without representation, not excessive spending. But hey, it makes a catchy slogan.

oh really....and on whom are taxes being raised? the people. and they are rising up danny. the obama admin and lib congress wants to raise taxes just like england did.

you are naive in your understanding of the original tea party. it was not just about taxation without representation....

i am sure you will accuse me of word games and mention some other "tea party"

glockmail

03-17-2009, 07:13 PM

Lets go from the Party straight to the revolution....:salute:

DannyR

03-17-2009, 07:27 PM

you are naive in your understanding of the original tea party. it was not just about taxation without representationGeez, again with your reading more than I implied. Sorry I didn't post a complete thesis on what the Boston Tea Party was about. But yes, the primary protest was about taxation without representation, specifically the Stamp Act, Townshend Acts, resulting boycotts, and attempt by Britain to force the issue.

But back on topic...

the obama admin and lib congress wants to raise taxes just like england did. Are you claiming you are not represented in Congress? Was Obama and this Congress not elected by a majority of the US population?

Losing an election isn't the same as being unrepresented! :laugh2:

moderate democrat

03-17-2009, 07:42 PM

Geez, again with your reading more than I implied. Sorry I didn't post a complete thesis on what the Boston Tea Party was about. But yes, the primary protest was about taxation without representation, specifically the Stamp Act, Townshend Acts, resulting boycotts, and attempt by Britain to force the issue.

But back on topic...
Are you claiming you are not represented in Congress? Was Obama and this Congress not elected by a majority of the US population?

Losing an election isn't the same as being unrepresented! :laugh2:

Danny...

as I read your posts...

PostmodernProphet

03-17-2009, 08:14 PM

Are you claiming you are not represented in Congress? Was Obama and this Congress not elected by a majority of the US population?

do you believe the US population elected this Congress to spend trillions of dollars?......I seem to recall Democrats complaining about Republican spending during the election.....

DannyR

03-17-2009, 08:15 PM

I strongly recommend that you put him on ignore... Nah, I don't do the ignore thing. Besides, he's obviously my biggest fan!

actsnoblemartin

03-17-2009, 08:17 PM

Nah, I don't do the ignore thing. Besides, he's obviously my biggest fan!

yurt is one of the nicest and smartest people on this board, yes he can be a bit intense at times, but he could be your best bud if you let him.

Dont count him out, he is a genuinly nice person

DannyR

03-17-2009, 08:17 PM

do you believe the US population elected this Congress to spend trillions of dollars?......I seem to recall Democrats complaining about Republican spending during the election.....Hmmm, taking into account the average Obama voter, yes. I think many of them are hoping for the bread and circus approach to government.

I don't think its Obama voters at these tea parties. Mostly disgruntled republicans.

actsnoblemartin

03-17-2009, 08:19 PM

to be fair, and i agree with you.

dont you think, over spending hurts all, and all should oppose it regardless?

Hmmm, taking into account the average Obama voter, yes. I think many of them are hoping for the bread and circus approach to government.

I don't think its Obama voters at these tea parties. Mostly disgruntled republicans.

PostmodernProphet

03-17-2009, 08:19 PM

Hmmm, taking into account the average Obama voter, yes. I think many of them are hoping for the bread and circus approach to government.

perhaps the ignorant ones (which is likely a majority)....but I think a lot of moderates were fooled by Obama's campaign, which quite frankly has been demonstrated to be nothing but lies......

actsnoblemartin

03-17-2009, 08:21 PM

perhaps the ignorant ones (which is likely a majority)....but I think a lot of moderates were fooled by Obama's campaign, which quite frankly has been demonstrated to be nothing but lies......

:clap: very well said

the obama sheeple were fooled by their messiah

Kathianne

03-17-2009, 08:22 PM

Hmmm, taking into account the average Obama voter, yes. I think many of them are hoping for the bread and circus approach to government.

I don't think its Obama voters at these tea parties. Mostly disgruntled republicans.

Mostly, but many libertarians and yes, Obama voters that have awakened to what they voted for, it's not what they meant.

DannyR

03-17-2009, 08:22 PM

dont you think, over spending hurts all, and all should oppose it regardless?Never said otherwise. I've probably got about 50 posts across the forum thus far stating cut spending, cut spending, cut spending.

PostmodernProphet

03-17-2009, 09:47 PM

Never said otherwise. I've probably got about 50 posts across the forum thus far stating cut spending, cut spending, cut spending.

odd....all I seem to recall is you defending Obama's spending plan, saying we need to give it time to save the world......

DannyR

03-17-2009, 10:40 PM

odd....all I seem to recall is you defending Obama's spending plan, saying we need to give it time to save the world......:lol: If I did say that, it was with extreme sarcasm. Here is a sample of what I've said about the budget, stimulus bill or taxes.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=343757&postcount=3
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=346096&postcount=1
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=344963&postcount=4
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=347958&postcount=14
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=349543&postcount=2
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=354276&postcount=139

Now what I have argued is that its too early to blame Obama for our current mess. I've also stated I don't think the stimulus bill is responsible for current unemployment or crashed markets. These I feel are still remnants of Bush's regime.

sgtdmski

03-17-2009, 11:59 PM

do you believe the US population elected this Congress to spend trillions of dollars?......I seem to recall Democrats complaining about Republican spending during the election.....

So do I. I remember all the talk about the debt, the spending, the not taxing of 95% of Americans.

Hmmm, it just doesn't add up does it. How do you reduce the debt, increase spending and not raise taxes? Remember this has always been what democrats do, spend and then tax. They always complain about cutting taxes, cause it is always only taxes cut on the rich, the people who are actually paying the income tax.

So, here we go again. I can see it all happening again, I was just a kid in the late 70's but I believe that I will actually get to see a replay of that time in a few short years.

dmk

PostmodernProphet

03-18-2009, 05:58 AM

:lol: If I did say that, it was with extreme sarcasm. Here is a sample of what I've said about the budget, stimulus bill or taxes.

http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=343757&postcount=3
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=346096&postcount=1
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=344963&postcount=4
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=347958&postcount=14
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=349543&postcount=2
http://www.debatepolicy.com/showpost.php?p=354276&postcount=139

Now what I have argued is that its too early to blame Obama for our current mess. I've also stated I don't think the stimulus bill is responsible for current unemployment or crashed markets. These I feel are still remnants of Bush's regime.

dude, if you think those represent someone opposed to government spending, you are way to subtle for your own good......

you say the current unemployment and crashed markets are remnants of Bush....so be it....but this thread is about overspending and there is no denying that this overspending is wholly owned by Obama....he's using crashed markets as an excuse to spend, and the markets are crashing worse because they forsee the results of his spending......

DannyR

03-18-2009, 09:30 AM

dude, if you think those represent someone opposed to government spending, you are way to subtle for your own goodSubtle? If you say so. I certainly don't see any praise for it as you claimed.

And this ignores many comments tossed here and there where I've directly said balance the budget. The comments from the posts above I was referring to:

If only we had a real Ross Perot (minus the crazy) leader who actually cared about our national debt. But neither candidate this election made that a priority.

I don't care what party you are in, deficit spending needs to end right now!

right now the best thing we can hope for with our country is that 2010 midterm elections will put a lot of budget conscious republicans back into office, just as 1994 did.

Congressmen get elected by promising to bring federal dollars to their home states. Its a sad sad system.

Shame it finally took a democratic president before Republicans again became aware of how spending is bad. I'm guessing two more years of uncontrolled spending will be the price we pay for the years of Republican neglect, then hopefully congress can change hands and we'll have a repeat of 1994's budget conscious congressional freshmen.

Personally I predict the economy will move along as it always has, and the stimulus package will probably have little impact, either for better or for worse. Its not as if this is the first time government has wasted tons of money with little payoff.

I was just a kid in the late 70's but I believe that I will actually get to see a replay of that time in a few short years.I doubt things are nearly that bad. I think we are actually at pretty much the bottom of the current recession. We'll have some positive mixed with negative news throughout the year, and then it will climb back up.

PostmodernProphet

03-18-2009, 12:47 PM

Subtle? If you say so. I certainly don't see any praise for it as you claimed.

And this ignores many comments tossed here and there where I've directly said balance the budget. The comments from the posts above I was referring to:

If only we had a real Ross Perot (minus the crazy) leader who actually cared about our national debt. But neither candidate this election made that a priority.

I don't care what party you are in, deficit spending needs to end right now!

right now the best thing we can hope for with our country is that 2010 midterm elections will put a lot of budget conscious republicans back into office, just as 1994 did.

Congressmen get elected by promising to bring federal dollars to their home states. Its a sad sad system.

Shame it finally took a democratic president before Republicans again became aware of how spending is bad. I'm guessing two more years of uncontrolled spending will be the price we pay for the years of Republican neglect, then hopefully congress can change hands and we'll have a repeat of 1994's budget conscious congressional freshmen.

Personally I predict the economy will move along as it always has, and the stimulus package will probably have little impact, either for better or for worse. Its not as if this is the first time government has wasted tons of money with little payoff.

I doubt things are nearly that bad. I think we are actually at pretty much the bottom of the current recession. We'll have some positive mixed with negative news throughout the year, and then it will climb back up.

I don't know whether to ask what you did with the other DannyR or just figure you're bi-polar......

DannyR

03-18-2009, 12:49 PM

I don't know whether to ask what you did with the other DannyR or just figure you're bi-polar......I have a feeling you're confusing me with some other poster. Look yourself and see if you can find a single post of me praising Obama's stimulus plan.

Kathianne

03-22-2009, 08:47 AM

Oh yea, there's over 150 of these 'tea parties' planned for 4/15/09: John Galt Day

Here's one from Orlando, I believe today:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7707/teapartyorlando600x800.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teapartyorlando600x800.jpg)

another from Lexington, KY

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9650/teapartylexington600x45.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teapartylexington600x45.jpg)

and Raleigh, NC

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7827/teapartyraleigh2.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teapartyraleigh2.jpg)

Kathianne

03-22-2009, 08:50 AM

Not your 'regular' types of protesters. Over 4200 in Orlando!

I think the examples of the protests by those on the left and this new phenomena on the right, illustrated above, proves the opposite. Are there ijits at any gathering? Yes. But you had to search out the one or couple signs above. That would not be true at one of the 'anti-war' rallies. Indeed at the later, you'd have trouble finding a theme in general. Go back, look for yourself as they were well documented.

Most folks of the conservative persuasion, which is as I'm sure you know, is relative to what was conservative in the past, do not claim those on the far end as their own. That they exist, well us 'morons' don't go for killing those we disagree with. The fact that a Timothy McVeigh committed a horrible act and considered himself 'conservative' has been well connected by those on the left to the right. I didn't see a bunch of 'rightwingers' protesting his arrest, trial, or sentencing-he deserved that and more. The fact that there are loonies on the right that would bomb or shoot abortion providers/clients, is not endorsed by the conservatives, even those of the Evangelical nature. Wouldn't recognize that from the propaganda on the left.

Many on the right embrace issues claimed by the left, for instance environmentalism and animal cruelty. Again it's a matter of degree. Most conservatives & for that matter most democrats are for clean air, water, land. We support laws that restrict those that would harm our common environment, (general welfare), in their own quest for wealth. We support laws that punish anyone who harms animals for personal gratification, (sadism), or that neglects them-whatever their reasons. Yet that for the main most of us are not for forced vegetarianism, do not think animals are the equivalent of humans, the left paints the right as bereft of care for anyone, thing, but ourselves and the dollar.

Now on the far left, there are the handful of eco-terrorists. The right sees them as anarchists, they don't try and make a connection between those groups, (ie., ELF), and the Democratic Party as a whole. Indeed, in spite of some real connections between Bill Ayers and Barack Obama, there wasn't a serious attempt to 'connect' them or the Weatherground for that matter, with the Democrat Party as a whole. (btw, did you know that the CA police have recently retested evidence they believe is DNA evidence tying Ayers to a policeman's death back in the Weatherground Days? But again, that is in the past. It was about an individual in a groups-not Democrats or even liberals as a whole.)

These types of issues play out at 'protests', 'marches', and conventions. I think there is underway a critical change in the polity. I don't think it has been caused by this past election or the administration before. I think it's been a long time coming, though it wasn't recognized at the time. What turning point is?

What was referred to as the 'silent majority' was never just the right, though it certainly appeared that way at the time; rather it was the wave of people that did what people do in the main: go to work, pay their taxes, raise their children, vote most of the time, get some news of current events, but for the most part, live their lives. They assume the government, for better or worse would get done in the main, what needed to get done.

While many of us see the 'bad guy' here and another sees a different 'bad guy' there, we are awakening to we are being manipulated, stolen from, abused by a cabal of 'bad guys' from all ends of the continuum. Our children and grandchildren's futures are already in jeopardy, if not peril. Some are in office, some in business, what they have in common is the desire to be their own lords, making rules for the peasants, (us). How many of those in government, many of whom have written and voted for laws raising our taxes, have avoided those same taxes? How many laws have they written, that they exempt themselves from? (BTW, at state level too, not just Federal level.)

This is written by someone who's 'conservative', I've believed that the system would work, if people cared enough to be heard. I'm no longer convinced that is the case. Nor do i think 'most' are, as evidenced by the type of folks above, many of which where jackets and shirts with union insignias on them, these are not your typical 'protesters.' If conservative means keeping the status quo, something is changing. April 15th there will be over 150 of these protest the tax deal held. What the future brings?

Kathianne

03-22-2009, 09:00 AM

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3828/teapartybaghdadbob600x4.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=teapartybaghdadbob600x4.jpg)

Jagger

03-22-2009, 09:31 AM

protest the Obama administration's stimulus package and budget. Why don't they like the stimulus package and budget?

Kathianne

03-22-2009, 09:34 AM

Why don't they like the stimulus package and budget?

Explained above. Argue the points, don't derail the thread.

Jagger

03-22-2009, 09:41 AM

Explained above. The Original Post doesn't inform the reader why the protesters find fault with the Economic Recovery Act and the Proposed Budget.

Kathianne

03-22-2009, 09:41 AM

If you are going to a Tea Party or want to organize one yourself, some tips and warnings:

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/70815/

Some more now that they've taken off and most of the glitches have been worked out:

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/74096/

SOME ADVICE FOR FUTURE TEA PARTY ORGANIZERS: Be sure to have a signup sheet where people can put their emails and other contact information for future events.

Also, consider printing up some postcards addressed to your local Representative and Senators. They should say that they’re from the Tea Party protest, and carry a message of fiscal discipline. Get people to sign them, and solicit donations for postage, then mail them. Local mail from real constituents makes an impression.

Also, encourage them to contact local media after the event, and either compliment them on their coverage, or politely criticize it, as appropriate.

In other words, focus.

Mr. P

03-22-2009, 09:42 AM

Why don't they like the stimulus package and budget?

Because you CAN'T spend yer way outta DEBT?

Kathianne

03-22-2009, 09:43 AM

The Original Post doesn't inform the reader why the protesters find fault with the Economic Recovery Act and the Proposed Budget.

Not arguing with you, this is an ongoing thread, there are subsequent posts. Go beyond the OP or start your own thread or respond to one post and point in particular. Go from there.

Jagger

03-22-2009, 09:44 AM

Never said otherwise. I've probably got about 50 posts across the forum thus far stating cut spending, cut spending, cut spending. How much should we cut spending on the Military, Social Security, Medicare and VA Medical Centers?

Kathianne

03-22-2009, 09:46 AM

How much should we cut spending on the Military, Social Security, Medicare and VA Medical Centers?

Start your own thread if you like, you are derailing this and are done doing so.

Kathianne

03-24-2009, 07:06 AM

CNN starting to notice. Of course Cafferty says, "...beginning..." unaware of the fact that it's momentum building and they've been around for months now:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/24/cafferty.economy/index.html

updated 1 hour, 32 minutes ago

Commentary: Time for another tea party?NEW YORK (CNN) -- There is a chill wind blowing across this land of ours.

People are losing faith in their ability to realize the American dream. While AIG pays out $165 million in bonuses to people who arguably contributed to the need for the federal government to hand them $170 billion of our money, and while politicians lie about who crafted the language that allowed this kind of stuff to happen (Are you listening Chris Dodd?), the average American is seeing his future disintegrate in front of his eyes.

Here are some numbers that suggest we are losing hope:

...One of the enduring strengths of the dollar has been that it has always been the currency of choice in times of crisis. But that's not the case anymore. Our ballooning deficits have driven down the value of the dollar so much that the Chinese government recently asked for guarantees from Washington that the Treasury bills they own are safe.

All of this isn't lost on the average American. Last week there were protests and demonstrations by taxpayers in cities all around the country who are beginning to object in increasing numbers to runaway government spending, taxes, bailouts and our growing national debt. These protests were called tea parties. Has a familiar ring to it, doesn't it?

CockySOB

03-24-2009, 07:52 AM

I don't know whether to ask what you did with the other DannyR or just figure you're bi-polar......

That'd be schizophrenia rather than bipolar.

PostmodernProphet

03-24-2009, 07:56 AM

That'd be schizophrenia rather than bipolar.

I thought bipolar more descriptive, since the two were the complete opposites of each other.....

CockySOB

03-25-2009, 05:27 AM

I thought bipolar more descriptive, since the two were the complete opposites of each other.....

As someone who has lived with manic depression for a long, long time, that's not exactly what bipolar is. Maybe I was just a little sensitive to the statement.

DannyR

03-25-2009, 10:53 AM

I thought bipolar more descriptive, since the two were the complete opposites of each other.....Only if its in the same person. I'm still pretty sure you're confusing me with some other poster.

Kathianne

04-02-2009, 10:04 AM

You just thought this thread was derailed, back OT:

Well whatever one thinks, these 'parties' are showing up in nearly all Congressional Districts. Sites where parties will be held, over 400 of them:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7874/picture138600x291.png (http://img18.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture138600x291.png)

and a whole bunch of 'news.'

http://taxdayteaparty.com/

PostmodernProphet

04-02-2009, 10:09 AM

I see conservatives have reclaimed the color blue!....I think liberals should be required to use a sickly, mucous-like green shade.....

Kathianne

04-03-2009, 08:17 AM

and Congress is getting it, at least in the Senate. Read the whole thing, one Congressman actually called the police after receiving a tea bag! :laugh2::

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2009/04/politics-and-the-tea-party-movement.html

Politics And The Tea Party Movement

The collision of the Tea Party movement and politics was always inevitable. It seems to be gaining some steam. Even Senators now have a chance to weigh in given this resolution....

....Regarding the Vitter resolution above, actually Vitter has been on board with the movement for some time. And with other high profile Republicans including Newt Gingrich on board, it's only a matter of time before the movement solidifies. April 15th should be a very interesting day. Maybe it's time to get that manifesto firmed up, too.

On April 15, millions of grassroots voters will assemble in cities and towns across the country for the first National TEA (Taxed Enough Already) Party to register their displeasure with our government's addiction to wasteful spending, bailouts for big business, and higher taxes. Help me force the Senate to recognize this day as a formal protest by the people against these policies. I support the efforts to enshrine in law a National TEA Party Day, and am completing the form below to become a Citizen Co-Sponsor of Senator Vitter’s resolution.

Trigg

04-03-2009, 07:57 PM

There is one scheduled for our city on the 18th and I plan on taking the kids to it. It's a great educational experience for them, it shows them that the people have a voice in this gov. (or at least they should have). My sister, who I've mentioned before, voted for bambam is going with us to the demonstration. She is against the stimulus that Bush gave out ( as was I ) and she is against the "recovery" bambam is pumping into the economy.

The tea party here was planned by a black Democrat, this is more than just a party issue. This is about the viability of the American economy and the outrageous spending that is going on. THINGS ARE GETTING OUT OF HAND AND IT NEEDS TO STOP.

Trinity

04-03-2009, 08:25 PM

5stringJeff

04-03-2009, 08:45 PM

There's one in Atlanta that night. I think I might go.

Trinity

04-03-2009, 08:50 PM

5stringJeff

04-03-2009, 08:52 PM

There is another being held in downtown Cincinnati on April 15, guess where I will be with my boy's. I think I will have my boy's create some signs to take.

Any suggestions on what to put on them. keep in mind they are 10 1/2 and almost 13 so please keep it PG. Although I am sure if left up to their own devices, knowing these two, especially the youngest, they would be rated R.

How about something to the effect of 'Don't leave a $14 trillion debt to us!'

Trigg

04-03-2009, 08:55 PM

There is another being held in downtown Cincinnati on April 15, guess where I will be with my boy's. I think I will have my boy's create some signs to take.

Any suggestions on what to put on them. keep in mind they are 10 1/2 and almost 13 so please keep it PG. Although I am sure if left up to their own devices, knowing these two, especially the youngest, they would be rated R.

I'm taking my son and daughter ages 16 & 13, I'm not taking signs though.

I think just experiencing the democratic experience will be enough of an education.

I've pulled up the web page at my hospital so I'm sure to run into people I know, both dems and libs.

Trinity

04-03-2009, 08:58 PM

How about something to the effect of 'Don't leave a $14 trillion debt to us!'

I like that......... I was also thinking something along the lines of ................quit stealing from my future!

Trinity

04-03-2009, 09:10 PM

I'm taking my son and daughter ages 16 & 13, I'm not taking signs though.

I think just experiencing the democratic experience will be enough of an education.

I've pulled up the web page at my hospital so I'm sure to run into people I know, both dems and libs.

This is going to be quite an educational experience for the kids. And if it happens to be during the day I will be informing their school i am sorry they will not be there today, they have an educational field trip they are attending.

Funny thing is, I really don't discuss politics with my kid's a whole lot as for my own opinions I still see them as young and not grasping the entire concept yet. So I prefer to challenge them and make them do their own research and come up with their own opinions. I will of course ask them why and how they came up with their opinions and they know they better have some factual info to back it up when talking to mom. But neither one of my boy's had a very high opinion of obama when he was running. I remember them asking me who he was and why is he running for president does he have any experience etc. etc. I told them look him up. They did and they did not like what they found. To this day they think he is an idiot. Out of the mouths of babes.

Trigg

04-03-2009, 09:20 PM

This is going to be quite an educational experience for the kids. And if it happens to be during the day I will be informing their school i am sorry they will not be there today, they have an educational field trip they are attending.

Funny thing is, I really don't discuss politics with my kid's a whole lot as for my own opinions I still see them as young and not grasping the entire concept yet. So I prefer to challenge them and make them do their own research and come up with their own opinions. I will of course ask them why and how they came up with their opinions and they know they better have some factual info to back it up when talking to mom. But neither one of my boy's had a very high opinion of obama when he was running. I remember them asking me who he was and why is he running for president does he have any experience etc. etc. I told them look him up. They did and they did not like what they found. To this day they think he is an idiot. Out of the mouths of babes.

The tea party I'm taking my kids to is on a Sat., my mother and sister (a dem) are also going. We have many discussions during dinner so my older kids are well informed on current events. They have their own opinions on what is happening and I encourage them to read and listen to what is going on in the gov. My 16 yr old son is especially interested in current events and isn't embarrassed to discuss them at school even if he is in the minority.

I think it will be a good weekend.

Trinity

04-03-2009, 09:38 PM

The tea party I'm taking my kids to is on a Sat., my mother and sister (a dem) are also going. We have many discussions during dinner so my older kids are well informed on current events. They have their own opinions on what is happening and I encourage them to read and listen to what is going on in the gov. My 16 yr old son is especially interested in current events and isn't embarrassed to discuss them at school even if he is in the minority.

I think it will be a good weekend.

The one we are going to attend is on Wed April 15th. My almost 13 year old stays pretty current on the recent events as well. I know he knows way more about politics at his age then i knew about in my 20's. I think I probably have to thank myself and his western hemisphere teacher my son loves him and thinks this guy is incredible, he makes them think and question things. Which is refreshing in today's schools. He was actually disappointed today because he was absent and they had a sub.

Speaking of minority during the elections both of my son's schools held mock elections, they came home and told me about them and I asked them who they voted for? Both of them said well we only had two choices Obama and McCain. I was like that' wasn't fair there are more then two choices on the ballot. So I asked them so who did you vote for? They both said " the lesser of two evils" McCain. I think I was more shocked by their statement then by who they voted for.

emmett

04-03-2009, 10:08 PM

My grand daughter ran into the same thing at school. 5th graders voted too. She asked why no Libertarian was on the ballot knowing that her "pappy" is one! When one teacher told her that no one takes Libertarians seriously she challenged her on it. Lex is a straight A student so the teacher sort of half heartedly debated it with her. I understand Lex ate her lunch but only two names appeared on ballot. Lex wrote in Bob Barr. She had fun with it.

glockmail

04-06-2009, 11:01 AM

How much should we cut spending on the Military, Social Security, Medicare and VA Medical Centers? Privatize all of it.

DannyR

04-06-2009, 01:43 PM

how do you privatize military? Wouldn't the main customer still be the government? Do you really want a mercenary army protecting your country?

glockmail

04-06-2009, 01:59 PM

how do you privatize military? Wouldn't the main customer still be the government? Do you really want a mercenary army protecting your country?
I thought he meant military medical care.

emmett

04-06-2009, 03:09 PM

He knows what you meant. Here's a point though. When you stop being the world's police officer and implement "real" defense and are attacked at home, it is privatized by proxy. Acountry like ours with the Nuclear arsenal we have has the ability to obliterate any country in the world. Why we need to fight ground wars is beyond me.

glockmail

04-06-2009, 03:13 PM

5stringJeff

04-06-2009, 07:55 PM

I don't think we can go around dropping nukes on people that we are making trouble, regardless of how big a pain in the ass they are. With regards to the "world's police force", an argument can be made for upholding democracy to make the world a safer place, hence safer for us as well as economically stronger.

An equally compelling argument can be made that the military the US taxpayers finance is supposed to be for the protection of our rights, not the protection of foreigners' rights. Therefore, the only reasonable use for the US military would be to protect Americans from foreign threats.

glockmail

04-06-2009, 09:08 PM

An equally compelling argument can be made that the military the US taxpayers finance is supposed to be for the protection of our rights, not the protection of foreigners' rights. Therefore, the only reasonable use for the US military would be to protect Americans from foreign threats. During WW2 Americans agreed that protecting democracy in the US required that we protect it in Europe as well. Then there's the argument that it's better to go to your enemy's house and break his stuff then to wait for him to come to your house and break yours. And then of course: "the best defense is a good offense".

Kathianne

04-06-2009, 09:12 PM

glockmail

04-06-2009, 09:22 PM

In any case, the last election proved that idea false. They won. No it just proved it unpopular by a tiny majority of Americans, which proves that we have gotten fat, lazy and stupid. If NK or Iran gets a nuke into a US city that affliction will change quickly. Maybe that's what it will take, and if so, so be it.

emmett

04-06-2009, 09:45 PM

During WW2 Americans agreed that protecting democracy in the US required that we protect it in Europe as well. Then there's the argument that it's better to go to your enemy's house and break his stuff then to wait for him to come to your house and break yours. And then of course: "the best defense is a good offense".

Glock...you actually worded what I was trying to say better than I did. My post did come off a bit..well.............strange looking for an Anti-War guy. Jeff helped. I simply meant that Nukes are a good deterrent for warning against any enemy who would try to come to our house and break our stuff.

World War II did require us to travel but it was obvious that our enemy had already hit us first. Must I remind you of U-Boats off the Amercian coastlines, Gulf of Mexico and so forth. The Japanese attacked Hawaii, while it was not a state, it was a US Territory. Germany was a Japanese ally, that meant it was ON! The Japs also attacked the string of isles off Alaska too. I don't know who it was but someone (A Liberal) I think made a point the other day about who the hell would ever attack Alaska...well, it's been done already so their point was moot.

My intended point was the Policing business. I just don't think that should be our job. Especially if the rest of the world is going to be so damn inappreciative, until of course they need us.

I am not anti-military, I'm anti-war waging! I want to use defense as what it is, or should I say...should be. I don't even have a problem with advancing to other areas as long as the clear and present by a "nation" is presented to us. In the War on Terror, it is unconventional and I understand this. For these reasons I am, and was, one of the loudest Libertarian voices in the party to CLOSE THE BORDERS when it was our platform to have totally open borders. I never really agreed with part of the agenda anyway.

Defense comes in many forms. Our best defense used to be fear. That was fine with me. We were feared. You know what...we ain't feared anymore. What some of these rogue nations such as Iran and North Korea do not realize is that one submarine can destroy life as they know it. Having the biggest baddest most capable Nuclear arsenal in the world is good defense and that is the kind I like. The kind you don't have to use, that does not cost soldiers lives (enough soldiers have died). In the event that we were ever attacked by a foriegn nation, I'm for reading the codes to the silo guy. As for the force that came ashore, woe be unto them. 71,000,000 gun owners will take it from there. Its a long ways to Hayes, Kansas from the ocean brother and ol Mr. Redstate might not like them being there.

Kathianne

04-06-2009, 10:34 PM

No it just proved it unpopular by a tiny majority of Americans, which proves that we have gotten fat, lazy and stupid. If NK or Iran gets a nuke into a US city that affliction will change quickly. Maybe that's what it will take, and if so, so be it.

Seems so.

In any case, I'm not for bailing out anyone other than US. If it hits in Europe, let them figure it out.

crin63

04-06-2009, 10:54 PM

I'm going to a tea party on Saturday. I'm going to start promoting it locally. If nothing else I might be able to make some new friends. Looks like there are about 300 people signed up for it so far.

glockmail

04-07-2009, 08:15 AM

Glock...you actually worded what I was trying to say better than I did. My post did come off a bit..well.............strange looking for an Anti-War guy. Jeff helped. I simply meant that Nukes are a good deterrent for warning against any enemy who would try to come to our house and break our stuff.

World War II did require us to travel but it was obvious that our enemy had already hit us first. Must I remind you of U-Boats off the Amercian coastlines, Gulf of Mexico and so forth. The Japanese attacked Hawaii, while it was not a state, it was a US Territory. Germany was a Japanese ally, that meant it was ON! The Japs also attacked the string of isles off Alaska too. I don't know who it was but someone (A Liberal) I think made a point the other day about who the hell would ever attack Alaska...well, it's been done already so their point was moot.

My intended point was the Policing business. I just don't think that should be our job. Especially if the rest of the world is going to be so damn inappreciative, until of course they need us.

I am not anti-military, I'm anti-war waging! I want to use defense as what it is, or should I say...should be. I don't even have a problem with advancing to other areas as long as the clear and present by a "nation" is presented to us. In the War on Terror, it is unconventional and I understand this. For these reasons I am, and was, one of the loudest Libertarian voices in the party to CLOSE THE BORDERS when it was our platform to have totally open borders. I never really agreed with part of the agenda anyway.

Defense comes in many forms. Our best defense used to be fear. That was fine with me. We were feared. You know what...we ain't feared anymore. What some of these rogue nations such as Iran and North Korea do not realize is that one submarine can destroy life as they know it. Having the biggest baddest most capable Nuclear arsenal in the world is good defense and that is the kind I like. The kind you don't have to use, that does not cost soldiers lives (enough soldiers have died). In the event that we were ever attacked by a foriegn nation, I'm for reading the codes to the silo guy. As for the force that came ashore, woe be unto them. 71,000,000 gun owners will take it from there. Its a long ways to Hayes, Kansas from the ocean brother and ol Mr. Redstate might not like them being there.

I wasn't referring to Japan at all since they were aggressors towards us first in Alaska then obviously Hawaii. But we helped out Britain for years first by selling supplies then by shipping them then by giving them stuff (Lend-Lease) and finally by giving them pilots.

I agree that we shouldn't be the world's police force but there is something to be said about protecting democracy when it has a chance to flourish. That means, of course, that we can't "inflict" democracy on a country but the people who live there need to want it bad enough to stake their own lives and treasure on it. If we can help out by providing tactical support, weapons and clearing the skies for them then I'm all for that. Before you do this though you have to make the decision carefully because once you commit you own it. The worst thing that we can do is support a fledgling democracy then back out before the job's done, which is what we did in Vietnam. Not only does that result in the deaths of the patriots that we allied with it erodes confidence in the US, which means a defeat for democracy somewhere else.

So therefore if we do begin support and things start to go bad for our new ally then we should fully commit. We didn't do this after Gulf War I which then created the need for Gulf War II. I would even go so far to argue that since we left Saddam with power after GW1 we enabled bin Laden to attack us on 9-11.

Regarding your comment about fear. It would be nice if fear of annihilation worked but there are problems with that. First the world know that we won't use a nuke on anyone without them using it us first and then only one for one retaliation. Second the radical Muslims don't fear their own deaths. Third many don't put the same value on human life as you and I do, and are more than happy to kill one US innocent in exchange for 10 or 100 of their own.

glockmail

04-07-2009, 08:16 AM

I'm going to a tea party on Saturday. I'm going to start promoting it locally. If nothing else I might be able to make some new friends. Looks like there are about 300 people signed up for it so far. I've got my calendar inked in for Winston-Salem on April 15.

glockmail

04-07-2009, 08:17 AM

Seems so.

In any case, I'm not for bailing out anyone other than US. If it hits in Europe, let them figure it out. I agree about Europe. If they hit there, the tide will turn in the US and we'll vote the Democrats out.

DannyR

04-07-2009, 09:41 AM

He knows what you meant.Actually I didn't read Jagger's full comment (I tend to fade out reading his posts) and missed the "medical center" ending.

Here's a point though. When you stop being the world's police officer and implement "real" defense and are attacked at home, it is privatized by proxy. Acountry like ours with the Nuclear arsenal we have has the ability to obliterate any country in the world. Why we need to fight ground wars is beyond me.You usually don't want to give the enemy the option of striking at home first though. As 9/11 proved, not every enemy of the nation is deterred by a nuclear threat.

But I think many of the defenses the USA currently possesses are geared toward attacking other nations, not small scale operations hunting terrorists and maintaining superiority.

One thing I disagree about with the new Gates budget is they are decommissioning one of the air craft carriers. I've not researched enough to know if this is being done just to save costs, or if its actually an older carrier due to be retired anyway.