Somewhere In Hell, A Snowball Is Melting

[Kathianne]

Michael Kinsley?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/19/AR2009021902578.html?hpid=opinionsbox1


Upside-Down Economics
By Michael Kinsley
Friday, February 20, 2009; A23

In January, Suze Orman, the blonde financial adviser who's all over TV telling you to cut up your credit cards, went on "Oprah" to discuss how to cope with the recession. Orman recommended not eating in restaurants for a month. The appalled National Restaurant Association pointed out that if every "Oprah" watcher took this advice, it would cost 53,000 jobs.

But what are we supposed to do? Hoard our pennies, or spend them? For decades we've been told -- correctly -- that we're a profligate people with a profligate government, all living beyond our means. Some day, they said (okay, okay, I, among many others, said) that we would pay for all this profligacy. Now the black day has arrived, and we're told that the best way out of this mess is for the government to shovel money out the door even faster than before, with preference given to projects that can spend it as quickly as possible.

There has been less emphasis on what we, as individuals, should do. President Obama ducked the question at his news conference last week. But logic suggests that we should be gluing those credit cards back together. The government is actually going to pay us to buy a new house or car. Borrow and spend, borrow and spend is what got us into this mess. Apparently, borrow and spend will get us out of it....

[bullypulpit]

It's the classic paradox of a consumer driven economy. According to the "Chicago School" economists, disciples of Milton Freidman that dominate politics both left and right in America, when left to its own devices, a capitalist economy will seek a natural equilibrium. As we have seen in Indonesia, Chile, Argentina, China, Russia, and elsewhere, this equilibrium can only be achieved at the cost of human rights, human dignity and human life. The equilibrium being that a few get wealthy at the cost of the rest of the population.

Friedman's economics, and consumerism might work in a rational society. But, as eight years under the Bush administration showed us, we clearly do not live in a rational society.

[Kathianne]

It's the classic paradox of a consumer driven economy. According to the "Chicago School" economists, disciples of Milton Freidman that dominate politics both left and right in America, when left to its own devices, a capitalist economy will seek a natural equilibrium. As we have seen in Indonesia, Chile, Argentina, China, Russia, and elsewhere, this equilibrium can only be achieved at the cost of human rights, human dignity and human life. The equilibrium being that a few get wealthy at the cost of the rest of the population.

Friedman's economics, and consumerism might work in a rational society. But, as eight years under the Bush administration showed us, we clearly do not live in a rational society.

Considering that Obama has basically continued and expanded on Bush policies, seems a losing argument there.

[Yurt]

It's the classic paradox of a consumer driven economy. According to the "Chicago School" economists, disciples of Milton Freidman that dominate politics both left and right in America, when left to its own devices, a capitalist economy will seek a natural equilibrium. As we have seen in Indonesia, Chile, Argentina, China, Russia, and elsewhere, this equilibrium can only be achieved at the cost of human rights, human dignity and human life. The equilibrium being that a few get wealthy at the cost of the rest of the population.

Friedman's economics, and consumerism might work in a rational society. But, as eight years under the Bush administration showed us, we clearly do not live in a rational society.

yeah, and the soviet union economy worked wonders :poke:

name some successful economies that are not consumer driven

[PostmodernProphet]

consumer driven is one thing, driven consumer is another......take for instance the beverage industry.....Americans spend more on canned beverages like Coke than the GDP of half the nations in the world.....you walk into a restaurant and order water instead of Pepsi and you cut the restaurant's profit margin in half......

but simply because we have allowed a market to develop wherein 3 million people derive their income from our consumption of colored sugar water is NOT a reason to continue that situation forever.....

we have hundreds of thousands of people who make their living from casinos....does that mean we have a moral obligation to gamble?.....

billions of dollars are spent on internet porn....do we have a moral obligation to keep Russian teenagers employed?.....

we need to make decisions that are smart for OUR economic situation, and let the marketplace reshape itself around smart decisions.......

[Yurt]

consumer driven is one thing, driven consumer is another......take for instance the beverage industry.....Americans spend more on canned beverages like Coke than the GDP of half the nations in the world.....you walk into a restaurant and order water instead of Pepsi and you cut the restaurant's profit margin in half......

but simply because we have allowed a market to develop wherein 3 million people derive their income from our consumption of colored sugar water is NOT a reason to continue that situation forever.....

we have hundreds of thousands of people who make their living from casinos....does that mean we have a moral obligation to gamble?.....

billions of dollars are spent on internet porn....do we have a moral obligation to keep Russian teenagers employed?.....

we need to make decisions that are smart for OUR economic situation, and let the marketplace reshape itself around smart decisions.......

and you know this....how :poke:

[PostmodernProphet]

we should be more worried about the fact you DIDN'T......

[82Marine89]

Who cares how a consumer spends their money. If they want to spend it on a can of pop then they have the right to. They are exercising their free will in their support of a private corporation. The gov't should not dictate how long a situation like that should last. As long as companies such as Coke, Pepsi, and RC Cola offer a product that is demanded by the population who cares if the money spent is greater than the GDP of half the world? This global attitude is what is destroying this great Nation. We need to worry about ourselves and our interests before we worry if another country makes as much money as Coca-Cola. California has the 6th largest economy in the world. Why not do something to prop up the other 49 states before worrying about Mexico, Somalia, or some other turd world nation.

:salute:

[PostmodernProphet]

Who cares how a consumer spends their money. If they want to spend it on a can of pop then they have the right to. They are exercising their free will in their support of a private corporation. The gov't should not dictate how long a situation like that should last. As long as companies such as Coke, Pepsi, and RC Cola offer a product that is demanded by the population who cares if the money spent is greater than the GDP of half the world? This global attitude is what is destroying this great Nation. We need to worry about ourselves and our interests before we worry if another country makes as much money as Coca-Cola. California has the 6th largest economy in the world. Why not do something to prop up the other 49 states before worrying about Mexico, Somalia, or some other turd world nation.

:salute:

you miss the point.....the issue is the government should not encourage us to buy pop we can't afford, or go out to eat if we can't afford it, or enter into mortgages we can't afford by saying to us, "people will lose jobs if you don't do it"......

we need to make the decisions that are right for US, not the decisions that are right for pop distributors or restaurants or bankers.....they need to adjust to OUR market choices, not the other way around.....

take Starbucks for example.....they have carved out a market for expensive, status symbol coffee drinks......do you feel people should make their decisions based on whether they ought to use their money to buy expensive coffee drinks or should they base it on whether Starbucks will be able to continue in business if we don't buy expensive coffee drinks......

[glockmail]

.....do we have a moral obligation to keep Russian teenagers employed?... Yes, dammit! :lol:

[Psychoblues]

It's the traditional American paradigm. When businesses fail they look for a government bailout. It's been going on for centuries!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Republicans, especially, are always ready to accomodate them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[PostmodernProphet]

Republicans, especially, are always ready to accomodate them!

and yet our current situation comes at the hand of Pelosi and Reid, doesn't it.......bank bailouts, car industry bailouts, everything bailouts.....I didn't see anything like this in the eight years of Bush or during the Reagan administration.....in fact, can you actually give me an example of a "Republican" bailout?.....

[Psychoblues]

You don't pay attention well, do you, pimp?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!



and yet our current situation comes at the hand of Pelosi and Reid, doesn't it.......bank bailouts, car industry bailouts, everything bailouts.....I didn't see anything like this in the eight years of Bush or during the Reagan administration.....in fact, can you actually give me an example of a "Republican" bailout?.....

Have you not seen what has been going on for the last 8 or so years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a fiscal conservative I would not have ever imagined it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[PostmodernProphet]

Y
Have you not seen what has been going on for the last 8 or so years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


yes I have.....and I repeat.....can you actually give me an example of a "Republican" bailout?.....when I ask for apples don't tell me about corn fields.....

[Psychoblues]

Obviously you didn't read the OP. You suck, pimp.



yes I have.....and I repeat.....can you actually give me an example of a "Republican" bailout?.....when I ask for apples don't tell me about corn fields.....

Kat did well by posting it. Neither she nor I can excuse your ignorance and failure to read it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[PostmodernProphet]

Kat did well by posting it. Neither she nor I can excuse your ignorance and failure to read it!

/boggle.....you think the OP is about something Republicans did and you think it is ME that has failed to read it?........

[Psychoblues]

Yes, I think it is YOU that failed to read it.



/boggle.....you think the OP is about something Republicans did and you think it is ME that has failed to read it?........

Prove me wrong!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!??!?!?

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[PostmodernProphet]

Prove me wrong!

????.....everyone here can simply read the OP....what's to "prove"....it's about a person who appeared on Oprah and recommended people not eat in restaurants.....what does that have to do with "Republican" bailouts?.......

[Psychoblues]

Somewhere in hell, a snowball is melting.

Get the drift, cowgirl?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?! Kat obviously did very well with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:beer::cheers2::beer:

Psychoblues

[Abbey Marie]

I didn't see anything about Republican bailouts in the OP. Quite the opposite.

[manu1959]

It's the classic paradox of a consumer driven economy. According to the "Chicago School" economists, disciples of Milton Freidman that dominate politics both left and right in America, when left to its own devices, a capitalist economy will seek a natural equilibrium. As we have seen in Indonesia, Chile, Argentina, China, Russia, and elsewhere, this equilibrium can only be achieved at the cost of human rights, human dignity and human life. The equilibrium being that a few get wealthy at the cost of the rest of the population.

Friedman's economics, and consumerism might work in a rational society. But, as eight years under the Bush administration showed us, we clearly do not live in a rational society.

totally agree......not one person lived beyond their means or was irrational in the 8 years under clinton......

[bullypulpit]

Considering that Obama has basically continued and expanded on Bush policies, seems a losing argument there.

How so, pray tell?

[Kathianne]

How so, pray tell?

here:


http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5193/picture103.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/picture103.png/1/w661.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img22/picture103.png/1/)

[glockmail]

How so, pray tell?Where's your outrage against the Obama policies for detainees of the War on Terror? :poke: