emotions and evolution

[Yurt]

what say you....

if death is a part of the evolutionary process, then why do we have emotions that are the opposite...

[avatar4321]

Because there is something greater than the evolutionary process.

[hjmick]

I don't know that death is a part of the evolutionary process so much as it is simply a part of living. You know what they say:

Life: No one gets out alive.

As for the emotions involved in dealing with death and dying, we're human.

[Yurt]

avi:

ok, if there is something greater, what is it....and how do you know


I don't know that death is a part of the evolutionary process so much as it is simply a part of living. You know what they say:

Life: No one gets out alive.

As for the emotions involved in dealing with death and dying, we're human

let me ask you this....

if death is not part of the evolutionary process, then what is death? and where does it fit...

[hjmick]

That's a good question, one I have no real answer for except that is simply the end of living. That's not much help, I know, but you're asking an Agnostic. With the death of my dad last year, I have, on occasion, pondered whether or not there is anything after, at times hoping there is, hoping I'm wrong about the whole kit and kaboodle, but mostly I just wind up missing him and remembering the good times.

I think we're all on this planet for what it, in the big picture, the blink of an eye. Hopefully, we all leave a mark, be it on the planet as a whole, or simply on the people in our lives. Then it's time for the next generation to do the same. They need room to do it, we die. Sometimes much too soon.

Two years ago, I almost lost my wife. Same day, simple surgery, in in the morning, out in the afternoon. She wound up in the hospital for a week. Seem the doctor failed to cauterize something and she bled internally while in recovery for a couple of hours before they caught the problem. I was scared, terrified. This is a woman I love like I have loved no other, unconditionally, unreservedly, with a passion. I shook, I cried, I wanted to hunt doctors. Ultimately I realized that I would go on, though I may not love this way again. Why? Because she wouldn't want it any other way. I would do it for her because I love her, because she left her mark on me. I don't know man, I'm rambling, not really answering your question. You got me thinking about stuff that has occupied my mind a lot over the five months.

I don't think there is any right or wrong answer. I'm not even sure there is an answer at all.

[Yurt]

That's a good question, one I have no real answer for except that is simply the end of living. That's not much help, I know, but you're asking an Agnostic. With the death of my dad last year, I have, on occasion, pondered whether or not there is anything after, at times hoping there is, hoping I'm wrong about the whole kit and kaboodle, but mostly I just wind up missing him and remembering the good times.

I think we're all on this planet for what it, in the big picture, the blink of an eye. Hopefully, we all leave a mark, be it on the planet as a whole, or simply on the people in our lives. Then it's time for the next generation to do the same. They need room to do it, we die. Sometimes much too soon.

Two years ago, I almost lost my wife. Same day, simple surgery, in in the morning, out in the afternoon. She wound up in the hospital for a week. Seem the doctor failed to cauterize something and she bled internally while in recovery for a couple of hours before they caught the problem. I was scared, terrified. This is a woman I love like I have loved no other, unconditionally, unreservedly, with a passion. I shook, I cried, I wanted to hunt doctors. Ultimately I realized that I would go on, though I may not love this way again. Why? Because she wouldn't want it any other way. I would do it for her because I love her, because she left her mark on me. I don't know man, I'm rambling, not really answering your question. You got me thinking about stuff that has occupied my mind a lot over the five months.

I don't think there is any right or wrong answer. I'm not even sure there is an answer at all.

i am going to have to process this.....

honestly, i have a dozen questions and comments, but i feel that typed words would not express what i feel and what i want to ask. i will say this, thank you.

[Mr. P]

what say you....

if death is a part of the evolutionary process, then why do we have emotions that are the opposite...

Death is the termination of a biological process not a function of evolution..

[DannyR]

if death is a part of the evolutionary process, then why do we have emotions that are the opposite.

Ok, not certain where you stand on evolution. But I do know that you are going to get two or three different types of answers to this question depending on if the person believes in it or not, and if they believe in God and an afterlife as well. I'll not waste time arguing on if evolution is real or not. Just take my answer as that coming from someone who strongly believes in evolution and not a spiritual afterlife.

As for emotions, science barely understands the workings of the brain at this point, so its difficult to be exact on this front.

I can see many positive evolutionary reasons to have emotions such as pleasure, joy. Being happy certainly seems a survival trait as it gives you incentive to keep on living. Even emotions like fear are usually useful, as they often pump adrenaline and stimulate you when your life might be in danger.

So where does grief and sorrow come into play? I think its simply a side effect of being able to experience happiness and joy. You can't have one without the other. How can one be happy if you don't have a base level by which to measure it by?

And of course there are benefits in grieving for our dead. For one thing, it makes us treat the dead bodies with respect, rather than just leave them where they lie. As such, this certainly helps in species survival, as proper treatment of the dead cuts down many factors that spread disease.

I've seen grief in many animals species as well. My first dog didn't have puppies until she was very old, and the one time she did they were all still born. She seemed heartbroken at this. My neighbor's dog howled for days after our dog died. They were best friends and played together all the time. In addition to being just the opposite of happiness, grief among animals could easily be an evolutionary trait originally designed to prevent cannibalism. Its well proven that eating one's own species spreads diseases very quickly, and many animals wouldn't normally pass up fresh meat. Likewise grief could be a stimulus to change their normal actions. Grieving animals often don't eat as much, which could be another protection against disease if a frequent cause of death was eating bad food or water.



Death is the termination of a biological process not a function of evolution..

Have to disagree. Death is certainly one of the factors that influence evolution.

If you die before producing offspring, it has a profound influence on how many descendants you will pass along. If you pass along children is one of the strongest factors in evolution, and death usually is nature's harshest test on if your genes pass along or not.

If creatures do not die and multiply beyond what the area can support, and resources become scarce, it likewise has a large influence on future survival. Death thus balances out this pressure.

Many species live only so long as it takes to create offspring and thus no longer use resources to compete with their children, or actually sacrifice themselves providing their bodies as food for their children which gives their children an advantage.

[Mr. P]

Have to disagree. Death is certainly one of the factors that influence evolution.

If you die before producing offspring, it has a profound influence on how many descendants you will pass along. If you pass along children is one of the strongest factors in evolution, and death usually is nature's harshest test on if your genes pass along or not.

If creatures do not die and multiply beyond what the area can support, and resources become scarce, it likewise has a large influence on future survival. Death thus balances out this pressure.

Many species live only so long as it takes to create offspring and thus no longer use resources to compete with their children, or actually sacrifice themselves providing their bodies as food for their children which gives their children an advantage.

Evolution is about adaptation not procreation, No?
Death has existed since the beginning of time it has not evolved into anything it hasn't always been.

I'll stand by "death" being the termination of a biological process.

[crin63]

For me the answer is simple. Death is a result of sin. It is simply the end of this physical life and the beginning of eternity in some kind of body that can experience pain or pleasure, can think and reason but without an end.

Had man never sinned there would have been no death and then again I don't believe we would be here discussing this either.

[emmett]

I'm not sure my little input won't seem a bit off the mark however after reading this thread I got to thinking. Certainly we do evolve. I don't know if what I will say will be in line with exact content but here it goes.

Just in the 20th century, humans evolved somewhat. In 2000, we were heavier, healthier and our life expectancy was longer. Isn't that evolution?

I took my grandkids to their Valentine dance last Friday and couldn't help but notice how fat the kids were. I would say at least half were borderline obese. Third graders, Fourth graders, fat as hell. Hardly any could run. They had one of those big air things there in the gym that kids can jump around in. You know the ones, where they can bounce off the walls and so forth. The same six or seven kids were in it all night.

OK, a strange observation I admit but does it make my point? We are evolving all the time.

Animals evolve and we know this to be so. Any regular watcher of National Geographic channel TV can see obvious evidence of this. Birds beeks change, shapes of reptiles change, tails of the beaver, colors of land animals, etc,...

Evolution happens all the time. How was it all created? God obviously. God created everything knowing it would evolve. It is an obviously natural process. The fact that we didn't get the timeline right is insignificant. I've personally never seen a pre-Christ calender.... have you?

[manu1959]

what say you....

if death is a part of the evolutionary process, then why do we have emotions that are the opposite...

if you do not know what is going to happen tommorrow how would one know what happens after death......death is the next step in the evolutionary process.....

[DannyR]

Evolution is about adaptation not procreation, No?
Death has existed since the beginning of time it has not evolved into anything it hasn't always been.Evolution is about both adaption and procreation. An individual can adapt, but if it doesn't procreate and pass along those changes they are lost.

Not certain what you are talking about death changing. What does that have to do with it being a part of evolution as a whole? When things die is very much a part of evolution. Many of our cells have clocks and programmed life cycles with cell death programmed into them. I don't see how you can say death plays no role in evolution at all.